Test Match Special

The price is right? The cost of Test Cricket

Jonathan is joined by The Guardian's Ali Martin, Wisden Editor & Daily Mail journalist Lawrence Booth, the BBC's Chief Cricket Writer Stephan Shemilt, and Rex Clementine from The Island newspaper over from Sri Lanka to discuss the money involved in watching test cricket. They discuss the price of tickets, as well as the context of England men's test schedule and how low attendances reflect on test cricket in general.

Duration:: 30m
Broadcast on:: 01 Sep 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

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Your listening to the TMS Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Time for our newspaper and website friends to join us to discuss the various issues that have been thrown up in the last week or so. Who have we got? We've got Ali Martin from The Guardian. We've got Lawrence Booth from The Daily Mail, also, of course, editor of Wizarding. Stephen Shammell, BBC's Cricket writer here and Rex Clementine, good to have you here, Rex and the island newspaper in Sri Lanka. Right where do we start? I've been off the long run this morning. Not literally running around Regent's Park because I mean, we've actually offered the long run about what we can see in front of us here, thousands and thousands of empty seats. Lawrence, what do you reckon? What do you reckon? What do you make of this? It's Sunday. It's Lord's. It's a beautiful day. It's a test match. I don't know how many people are here, but it's not nearly enough. Hundred odd pounds or something to buy a ticket to come in. People said, "No thanks." Yeah, it's not a good look. I was here a couple of Sundays ago, the final of the hundred, and it was full, and I hate to make those comparisons, but it's not a good look for test cricket. I think there are a couple of things going on, and you mentioned the prices there, it's clearly a fact, and we'll come back to that. But I think this summer was always going to be a difficult sell for English cricket. We had the ashes last summer. We've got India next summer, with respect to West Indies and Sri Lanka, this feels a bit like the sort of wafer-thin ham in the sandwich, really. And I think asking fans to keep shelling out is a challenge. I think the basketball factor there, we say, it is also interesting. The West Indies test here didn't get to lunch on the third day. There's a lot of hoopla about Anderson, that kind of covered up the fact that it was a short game. People perhaps are not risking fourth-day tickets for England games now, because I'm not sure how much cricket they're going to get. But I think, yes, the prices are an issue. You can get refunded if there isn't, 25 hours or whatever. So you do get some money back. But what do you think? Well, it looks terrible, doesn't it? They flagged up 7,000 for today in advance. Perhaps the hope was that they wouldn't need a fourth day, and we wouldn't face this kind of situation. 90-odd pounds for the cheapest ticket is a lot. They're saying under 16s are free, but the risk of resurrecting the Kirstie Allsoft debate, you probably need adults to come in with you. So I think that is a problem that they haven't resolved, and they seem reluctant to drop the prices for the reasons you alluded to. No, not a good look at anything. Ali, what do you made of this morning? Yeah. Well, it's not a great follow-up to World Trafford where the crowds are a bit thin there as well. I've been sitting downstairs wondering whether actually peak cricket-watching season, we normally talk about at the score hall days, but actually with the Premier League having started a fortnight ago, is that perhaps it's between football seasons now, which is when we have the peak season. Next year, the Tess Am I finished on August 4th, I believe? Yes, early, yes. Yeah, which some people aren't that happy about. It's not a great look here for lords, I don't think also, because they have the World Test Championship final here next year, which that one is locked in, but the incoming ICC chair, Jay Shaw, has made noises about moving that final out of the UK in future cycles. I think the fact that it's in June does give English cricket an advantage there, and I think lords will be very keen to get the next two, I believe talks are underway at the moment, but that's all predicated on the fact that lords is able to bring in a crowd, regardless of who's playing, even if it's not England, the various, the demographic of the UK should bring in a crowd, two thirds of the Sri Lankan population in the UK live in London, so one question I would have for MCC, maybe if you do get someone on later you could ask them, is have they done enough to reach out also to the Sri Lankan community here, because Sri Lanka got a proud record on London, they've not lost in London since '91 in a test match. So yeah, so there's a few things to consider there, but as Lawrence says, and I think as we all agree, it's not a great look. And don't you have to accept that some years you're going to make loads of money, Australia, next year with India, you can put your tickets higher than this, but there have to be used, if you really are trying to sell test cricket, trying to sell the game, trying to get people in to test cricket, not 100 and not C20, but you do have to flex all those prices, don't you? Absolutely, and one of the phrases of this weekend has been dynamic pricing, hasn't it, because of the huge queues for oasis tickets that have been online, people are going nuts for eight hours watching it, you know, being frozen out of the website and what have you. But actually that is about kind of people are flagging up where there's potential kind of price gouging, where people are waiting for so long that once they get to the front of the queue that the prices have gone up and the weight that they've invested so long, this is kind of the other way. You'd like a bit of dynamic pricing in terms of, if you can see a fourth day coming and you haven't shifted that many, as you say that you have the credit card details of the people that have bought the existing tickets, and if you feel the prices should come down, you could perhaps refund a small element of that to make it understandable when you drop the prices for the sort of general admission on the day. That's one factor. Also, I would say that my understanding is that the oval are also reporting a similar phenomenon for day four. Now that is a Monday, it's a Friday start on that third test, but as I mentioned with that big Sri Lankan population in London, England playing test cricket, maybe looking for their first perfect summer since 2004, okay, it's not the ashes, but that really should be pulling more people in. Yeah. Rex, you're nodding. How much is it to get into a test match in Colombo these days? Actually, Colombo's test matches are free of charge because they're not. How many turn up? Yeah, that's the other question, not much of interest shown by people to turn up at the ground and what they match, and people would be rather happy to watch it off the TV. But in Candy and Gold, there's a bit more interest. Right. Anyway, tickets for test matches back home are free. That's amazing. And so you are scratching your head at the thought of people playing £100 to come in and watch the day of test cricket? Yeah, I mean, coming today out of St. John's wood station, every day, you see lots of people walking out of the station. But today it was an exception, and I thought maybe later in the day, people would show up and be surprised that there are not many people here, but then I got to know that tickets have been priced so high as well. But then, having said that Sri Lanka haven't played well, that may be one reason that keeps the Sri Lankan community away. From the moment they won the toss, they made some poor calls and yeah, they've not been up to the mark and that probably could be one reason as well. Yeah, that's fair comment. Stefan, do you think that possibly some of the answer is because there's actually, as was said earlier by Lawrence, that this is kind of a very thin layer of hammer, do you uncover how you use it now? Let's do thin hammer. Way for thin hammer in the sandwich, that was it. But we've kind of talked about that. Hamburg in advance, we've talked about the summer being the summer of rebuilding for England because it is actually, well, it's Sri Lanka's question is therefore, it's a chance to look ahead to India and the ashes. So maybe we've all talked it down a bit as well. It's not just that. I've just wondered for a little while if this summer would make the English game wake up to the plight of test cricket across the world and for too long in England, we have said, we're okay, we're selling out test matches, we don't need to worry about anything else. But if the whole economy of English cricket at the moment at least is based on the England men's team and having a great product, which obviously they have on the field, but selling out grounds, making sure that, you know, TV rights are maximised, England need teams to play and they need those teams to be competitive and well prepared and to provide good contests, not just in the years that Australia and India are here. And if every other year those contests aren't going to be great because England and those other countries in India and Australia haven't done their bit in making sure that everyone else is competitive. So I'd go back to, you know, rumblings in Australia where in Adelaide they complained that they had back-to-back tests against the West Indies and they didn't feel that was such a great product, a great sale. What are these big countries doing to make sure that all of those teams that come and play them all the time are competitive and make spectators want to buy tickets for day four and all that now is coming home to roost and if it takes a half-full or a quarter-full lords for us to finally sit up and say we haven't done enough to make sure that everyone in place tests cricket is competitive, what's about time? Yeah, I guess what you could say is whereas we as cricket correspondents have talked about this summer, as I said, about being a rebuilding and an exercise to look ahead, should administrators do that with their prices too? Actually this is a lower-key summer and I know that the prices are cheaper than they will be next year for India and were last year for Australia but they just seem to have got that level wrong and you want to take a hits on top of it, well, 30,000 to 40 quid I suspect there have made more money than 6,000 whatever they've made here but I don't think administrators should work in that same sort of cycle in which the actual players do. Yeah, I think it is certainly a question of microeconomics but also Stefan saying macroeconomics. You go back to 2014 when we had the big three coup where England, Australia and India travel up the game's finances to suit themselves and there was a bit of kickback at the time but we've basically gone back to that now because last summer the ICC's redistribution of funds boosted India's share of the pie from sort of late 20% to nearly 40% and most countries just stood aside and said yes there is no problem at all because of course it's an whole theme, I think I talk about it every time I come on here but people bend over backwards to accommodate them because India run the show, they bring in most money and everyone wants a tour from India, wants to upset India because they need their visits to generate the broadcast revenue, so but here we are now as Stefan says we are sort of reaping to a degree what we have sown which is an imbalance in the game, it probably goes back a decade or more, what did we expect really, did we expect even England fans who love test cricket to keep watching the sort of I suppose second tier test nations if you like, there's a lot of talk about do you divide test cricket into two leagues of six or at the moment Sri Lanka would be very much in that second tier, so would West Indies, so you know perhaps England got lucky by beating West Indies in seven sessions at Lords earlier in the summer we were spared a scenario like this on the fourth day but this is something that the game has to get together and look at, we're going to keep not giving these teams the resources that they need then perhaps this is what we're going to get. I think my frustration Ali was made because we all love test cricket, we all are trying to make others who want to wear a test cricket, we're trying to demonstrate this amazing game that there's so much depth to it and yet you see this and like you said the hundred finals full, well great okay and that's a hundred, that's a T20 cricket terrific, we're trying so hard to say that this is actually, this is the ultimate in cricket, the test match which if we're not careful will be gone and when it is gone it won't come back, so I think that's the kind of the frustration behind it and that you can't just keep trying to take money out of this sport because it isn't strong enough to do that. The health of test cricket in England is still strong, today it's not a great look, the crowds and old traffic weren't great but it is still test cricket that pays the bills in this country, we have these, the broadcast they'll set up as they are for cricket in this country and the majority of those, the majority of that money I should say is generated by a test cricket, you saw in the COVID summer of 2020 when there was fears that cricket might not get on at all, the EC move moves heaven and earth to get test cricket on, so it is still the bedrock of the game here, it just as Lawrence has said and as you alluded to it's going to need a little bit more dynamic and nimble administration for the summers in between and looking in the round as the entire global game about that redistribution of wealth. I mentioned Jay Shara, who's coming in as the ICC chair, one aspect that he has spoken about is this potential test match fund, setting up a minimum payment of match fees for overseas players at England, we'll also be paying Zimbabwe a touring fee for that one-off test here next summer, so it's looking at small elements like that and trying to build the thing overall and I think, you know, the problem will be particularly acute in England if test cricket does sink because it is currently the bedrock. Yeah, absolutely, I just got an email here from Maria from Norwich, hello Maria, in total this summer she writes, I've spent approximately £500 on cricket and that is one ticket for the second day of the ultra effort test match, return trains through Norwich and Manchester, two nights in a Manchester hotel, two tickets for the 100 at headingly, bargain, she wrote, return trains between Norwich and Leeds and two nights in a Leeds hotel, all those trips worked out cheaper than a much shorter journey to London, staying one night to visit the oval all lords and that's kind of the point and that's just the last word on this I think, is that the idea of the 100 in particular, and I may go at that, but there's the concept of it, is to get new people into watch test cricket, what an opportunity this is to see A if that works and B to do it, all these people that could be here, you know, that this new tournament is supposed to be attracted to test cricket, what are they going to think when they see this ground on the televisions deserted, you know, I'm yet to be convinced that the 100 acts as a, you know, a gateway drug to the longer format, so that's one of the sort of selling points of an initial, I thought, well, great, if they make it work, good on them, but there's been very little kind of overlap in the advertising, you know, sometimes the advertising for the 100 comes out, you think, go on sneaking a mention of the T20 blast, or there's a test match next week, is there dynamic ticketing arrangements going on, do people who came to the 100 find that were they given a discount for a day like this when they suspected there'd be, you know, not as many people coming to the gates or for the oval, you know, what's been going on there, that does seem like a missed opportunity, how much communication is there going on, I think that's a fair question to be asked. Right, well, let's leave that alone, shall we? We've banged on about that, but no, it's a bit, it's a, yeah, when you sit here and you see it, and you have our view here, for instance, there's no avoiding what you can see out there, do we mention bad light as well, I mean, that came out at Haunters again last night, I mean, do you think that, again, the short form of the game is, again, really focusing the need on test cricket to be able to play through, through some bad light, Steph, I never throw it out yet. Play every test match with a pink ball, it's a rip to me, I know, I can see them. Every test match. Absolutely, well, if we can play day night test matches with a pink ball, and those tests, so when England go to the ashes next winter, they're going to play a day night test in Brisbane, and that test match goes towards the score line of the ashes, you don't get half a point in the series for that, it is one test match win, last time there was two day night test matches that counted two wins for Australia, if a pink ball is good enough to play a day night test match, and that goes towards statistics, results, history of the game, why isn't the pink ball good enough to play every single test match? Well, I'll just throw in there, I guess, I think probably most of the players don't think it is good enough generally. So then don't play day night test matches, it's one or the other? Yeah. No, you're not, and I can tell you not having it, it's a very, I think we'd have some short games in England with the pink ball, maybe, but to me it is, or, I don't like this idea, but it's another one that's been floated, if a red ball can be changed when it goes out of shape after 40 overs, and it's literally just an umpire sticking his hand in a box and coming out with something that's completely different, why can't you change to a pink ball when the light's not good enough? You could do, again, it could have some quite dramatic impact on a game, but lots of things have dramatic impact just on a game, like cloud cover, like flood lights being on, all sorts of things, and I've been slightly playful, but my argument, because that would be that precisely because it is dark and the lights are on and it's a bit murky, you put a pink ball into that situation, it's going to go all over the place. But teams can get the wrong end of the conditions at any point of a game, can't they? I'd say if the pink ball's good enough to play one test match, why isn't it good enough to play all test matches? And he thoughts down there, he says holding a red cricket ball in his hand at the moment. Allie? You've got a reader in your hand there. I'm not sure what that one is actually, oh, it is a reader, yeah. I kind of agree with what Stefan's saying, although it will be a full-blown pink ball every single test, I would also agree with you, John, I think the standard of that ball needs to be improved before that idea can come in, but yeah, I don't necessarily have an issue with introducing a pink ball into a game in a bad light situation for the reason Stefan's given in terms of the more changes that occur anyway, and the swings in conditions that can affect a game at any point. I think the main problem is excessive caution by the umpires. I just thought it was ridiculous, yes, I mean, in England effectively were the ones who ended eventually because they didn't want to keep bowling spin, they wanted to keep the ball relatively fresh for the seamers this morning. I get that, but it just seemed, it was such a bad look with 100 final keeps coming up, but they've gone off in those conditions, switched the lights on and got on with it. I think the sort of elf and safety perspective can go too far sometimes in test cricket, and there are people here drifting away, they could have had another hour and a half of cricket last night. Could you have a situation in which you carry on playing, bowl who you like, but you can't bowl any bounces, bowl a bounce, you're out of the attack? Yeah, that's possible, but then I suspect we'd have more scenarios like we had yesterday where Ollie Pope was, we can't do that, we don't want to bowl us spinners, let's go off. I just think that people are too cautious, the umpires are too cautious and at the moment you see there's one of those depressing sights in cricket when they sort of come together, they very slowly look at their light meters, you know exactly what's coming and the game grounds to hold and again, it's not a good look, test cricket can't afford these looks. Relatively soon, and certainly in our lifetimes, bad light will have to be eradicated from the game, won't it? I think of test cricket being an entertainment product and trying to compete against, firstly, other forms of the game and other sports and other forms of entertainment and with people paying either good money on the ground or TV companies paying lots of money to show it, it's going to have to go, that someone's going to have to come up with something because eventually it's just unsustainable for everyone to be walking off just because the light's got a bit gloomy. I know it's been part of the game for years and years, but it's something that's going to have to be solved. The TMS Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds. At Mint Mobile, we like to do the opposite of what Big Wireless does. They charge you a lot, we charge you a little. So naturally, when they announce they'd be raising their prices due to inflation, we decided to deflate our prices due to not hating you. That's right, we're cutting the price of Mint Unlimited from $30 a month to just $15 a month. Give it a try at mintmobile.com/switch. $45 up front for three months plus taxes and fees, promoting for new customers for limited time, unlimited more than 40 gigabytes per month, slows, full terms at mintmobile.com. My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big row as man, then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friends still laugh at me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get a $100 credit on your next ad campaign, go to linkedin.com/results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com/results. Terms and conditions apply, linkedin, the place to be, to be. Rex, thoughts on Sri Lanka, preparation, low lack of, is that a difficult thing? We had the same situation with the West Indies coming here as well. I mean, it's always a worry of yours that they weren't have had enough practice here. Yeah, I mean, the international Canada is so tight these days that, you know, there's hardly any time to play, you know, I mean, many warm up games. When Sri Lanka came in 2002, they played five warm up games before the first test match. So by the time the first test started at Lord's, they had spent one month in England, and in that test match, they made England to follow on when that game ended in a draw. So yeah, I mean, ideally, you know, I mean, they just, on this tour, they're just coming off after just one warm up game. Ideally, you know, I mean, if they can get about two games or so, that will help players to sort of, you know, I mean, get more comfortable with the conditions. But then, I thought although they lost the first test match, they fought well in old traffic. But this game, you know, I mean, they've got their, some strong, you know, I mean, one of the toss and should have bet at first condition. So that was a strange one, wasn't it? Yeah, very strange one. And also the fact that, you know, I mean, someone like coming in this betting, I mean, today it'll be probably betting at number eight, it's been the best bet of the tour. And maybe, you know, I mean, they should have tried to move him up in the order a little bit. So yeah, they've got the, you know, I mean, some Smith's love band, hopefully they'll get a few things right at the over. Okay. Let's bring Oli Pope into the conversation, shall we? Lauren, sort of you being, sort of telling your reader about, about Oli Pope and his situation and how he finds himself at number three at the moment? I think the captaincy is not quite a red herring, but not far off it. It was always going to be a short term gig. What it has allowed England to see is that he perhaps isn't cut out for the job, which a few of us suspected in advance anyway. I mean, forget comparisons with Stokes, so those are always unfair. But whether or not Pope has it in him to be a leader of men and an inspirer on the field, he's not actually bad tactically on the field. You know, he did quite well on the bonkers first innings here. The key question for him is runs at number three, and that is becoming an issue. I think the captaincy hasn't helped him. He talked about struggling to compartmentalise batting and captaincy before the game, which was an open and honest admission, but perhaps a surprising one. Yeah, Sean, a bit too much light, perhaps, on his frailties, and people have picked up on that inevitably. His issue is that he, though he still has a good record at three, average is over 40, a strike rate of 73 in the Bazball era, 500. That's pretty good when you look at some of the number threes going back. He's so hit and miss that England can't rely on him. You know, 200 against Ireland was his highest score. People will do what they call root maths, where they take out his biggest innings and work at his average then. That's possibly a bit unfair. But against the big teams he's been struggling, averages 11 against Australia, 20, something against India. And when he looks bad, he looks horrid. The two dismissals here have not helped that debate. You know, awful pull shot in the first innings and then uppercut to deep point in the second. So he hasn't yet convinced anyone that, A, he's captain and B, he's our long-term number three. We've got an ashes in 15 months' time and England will want to nail that down. Isn't it surprising? I mean, number three, I've always viewed as having to be that really calm person because he could be out there in the second ball of the innings, an awful one. A bit of chaos in the dressing room and you send him out and he sort of soothes the situation. The opposition all up, they're jumping around. They've just taken a wicket and everything's... So just to go out there and be really calm and just play. And that doesn't look like Volley Pope. He is a jittery starter. But I don't, I don't understand, Ali, is why he hasn't really made an effort. Just to play those first 20 balls, just give those 20 balls to the bowler. Just play. But he still has to, I don't know, sort of fidgety and imposing himself. Yeah. And this England team have flipped a few conventions, but I think one of the sort of truisms of number three kind of holds firm here is that you do probably want a calm head out there. And actually, some of the, I mean, I'm setting the bar very high here by bringing up some of the great number threes. But a player like Ponting would almost walk out and own the space immediately, which would actually almost lessen the value of the wicket just taken. And you'd kind of, you know, because he would immediately be out there as a presence. And Pope, I mean, he says that, you know, when I score runs, you call me busy. And when I don't make any runs, you call me sort of frenetic. So I do understand that side of it. I'm not, you know, I don't have test runs myself. But when I watch his defense, I see him jam down on that ball and off stump with an angled bat. And I, and it's very strange when you see a number eight like Gus Atkinson's playing such a pure stroke bat to those deliveries. It's pretty hard to compare him to his sorry colleague there. But so there are areas that I think he can work on there. He also tends to start a series in some as well, but kind of fades and whether there's an exhaustion there that kicks in. And, you know, for that reason, yeah, it is a valid talking point. I suspect England will keep faith because they like to keep faith. Having said that, if, you know, there will be positions that they'll be talking about as they try and sort of hone this team for next year. Sorry Rex to say the tree with Sri Lanka like it. But you know what I mean? They are looking to build in this second phase of the Brendan McCollum's four-year contract and nail down that team for what is a sort of huge finale. Anali Pope needs to address a couple of issues to make sure that he's part of it. It's frustrating because he can play, can't he? You know, we see his hundreds. It was portalism of the century. I mean, you see, you see the weight and bat. Absolutely. And in his favor next week as a return to the Oval, which is obviously, you know, his figures are outstanding. So maybe that can kind of, he can put things to bed there for a while before that Pakistan tour because he will want to be part of it. He was a key part of that win three-nil there 18 months ago. Yeah. Mention of white ball coaches and coaches in general there. Stefan, you've been busy today writing a piece about McCollum and the white ball team. Now, because there is a gap there. We've got Marcus Duscothick as an interim thing. Is this just a sort of think piece that you think this ought to happen or is it something that you think will happen? I'm not for one second saying it will happen, but I do think if England are looking around for the best coach to take on the white ball team, there's a very good chance that he's already in the dressing room. I know that the obvious stumbling block to that is the schedule and the fact that Brendan McCollum lives in New Zealand. But I do think that a two-tier or a split coaching role ends up creating a bit of a two-tier system, especially when you've got split captains and the two times that England have done it both recently and ten years ago, when it was Flower and Giles, it just seems that the white ball team sort of gets left behind, that the test team gets pick of the players and everything else. And because the red ball set up is so settled, everyone wants to be in it. I think the white ball team would like a piece of that. And England's schedule, Rob Key, said it himself when he was interviewed on the TV the other day, that after this Christmas, because between now and then the schedule is very tight, after that it does ease out. It would be, I think, fairly simple for McCollum to be the sort of coach in Supremo and some of his assistants dip out for certain tours. I think that would be a really good thing for the likes of Traskothic and Collingwood, and maybe another assistant coach that they could bring in because English cricket has been really poor at turning our best players into head coaches. England go to New Zealand on the next two winters anyway. There's a test tour, this winter's a white ball tour. Next winter, the sort of subject of extending Brendan McCollum's contract hasn't happened yet, but this might be his next to last test match at Lorde for England. Next year is his last home summer. I think he's told you Agas quite a lot that he thinks he's got the best job in the world. Well, if he thinks he's got the best job in the world, can England coax another two years out of him and maybe give him responsibility for everything? We shall see. Gentlemen, thank you very much indeed. I like Martin Lawrence Booth, Stefan Schiavoert, Clementine. Thank you very much. I hope you enjoy the rest of your tour. Rex and things go well for you. Thank you to down that end. Lovely to see you as always. Thanks to Stefan. The TMS Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. This podcast is brought to you by E-Harmony. The dating app to find someone you can be yourself with. Why doesn't E-Harmony allow copy and paste in first messages? You are unique, and your conversations should reflect that. E-Harmony wants you to find someone who will get you. How are you going to know who gets you? If people sing you the same generic conversation starters, they message everyone else. Conversations that actually help you get to know each other. Imagine that. Get who gets you on E-Harmony. Sign up today. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart choice. Make another smart choice with Auto Quote Explorer to compare rates from multiple car insurance companies all at once. Try it at progressive.com. 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