Host Brendan O'Connell invites guest Teresa Larkin (Co-Chairwoman, Pregnancy Care Alliance of MA) to discuss deceptive advertising of pregnancy care centers, the Pregnancy Care Alliance of MA and its mission, tax payer funded campaigns against pregnancy centers in MA, abortion pill side effects and reversal, & more.
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Life Matters
The following commentary does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff and management of WBCA or the Boston Neighborhood Network. If you would like to express another opinion, you can address your comments to Boston Neighborhood Network, 302-5 Washington Street, Boston, Massachusetts, 02119. To arrange a time for your own commentary, you can call WBCA at 617-708-3215 or email radio at BNNMedia.org. Well, welcome to Life Matters, I'm your host, Brendan O'Connell. Well, here in the Boston area and throughout the state, the state is advertising that pregnancy help centers are deceptive and have deceptive advertising. We have today our guest, Teresa Larkin, and she's the co-chair of the Pregnancy Care Alliance group that is formed to battle with government agencies that are put forth this thesis or theory that the pregnancy help centers are nefarious, and that's not necessarily the case. Welcome, Teresa to the show. Thank you. Teresa, tell us a little bit of the background as far as how did this come about and where we are today in what we hope to do. So the Pregnancy Care Alliance, really, as we, you know, and I talked a little bit earlier, is sometimes out of adversity, good things are birthed, and I've been involved in the Pregnancy Care Center movements for since 1999, they've been around a long time. And even though centers were friendly and supportive of each other, there was no real unity or cohesion of how to operate services and to sort of work better together to advance the cause of pregnancy centers. And so once the DOP decision was released and we faced all this backlash. So that was in June 2022. 2022. All this backlash. All of this, you know, that was at the time when the Attorney General, who was now our governor, put consumer advisory warning, targeting pregnancy centers, like you said, accusing us of deceptive advertising, lying to women. That all took most of us by surprise. And we didn't really anticipate that. But what that caused us to do is come together as pregnancy centers throughout the Commonwealth of Massachusetts to say, how are we going to battle this? How are we going to correct the record? How are we going to convince or show people that we're not deceptive? We're not, as you said, nefarious, evil doers. And so we formed a coalition called the Pregnancy Care Alliance. And right now it's a loose coalition of made up of nine organizations making up over probably about 20 centers, because many of the organizations are multi-centered, working together to combat this mass misperception that we're being exposed. Didn't you do some studies several years ago that said, what is the favorability of pregnancy health centers? What was the result of that? Pregnancy centers across the country have very high favorability that almost well over, close to 70% of people think very highly of pregnancy centers. Unfortunately, many people don't really know what a pregnancy center does, but even probably if they did, those numbers would probably be even higher. Right. And now I've seen the number of 3,000 pregnancy centers bandied about maybe 2750 throughout the country, and they fire outnumber the abortion clinics now, which is a good thing. Well, where do you, have you seen a downturn in business since the, well, let's talk about the state. They are using, this is the Commonwealth of Mexico, they're using taxpayer dollars. Yes. Now did Charlie Baker approve of that? No. So this was part of the post-Dobs world where Massachusetts determined what side they were going to be on. They were going to make sure that they were a strong, solid abortion state, and so immediately they kicked into a new bill's, you know, they actually ironically called the, I'm sorry, for getting the acronym, but the role, you know, reproducing, you know, removing obstacles from abortion. So they took the row act and they called it removing obstacles from abortion act in Massachusetts, and they extended the right to have an abortion in Massachusetts almost to birth. They've tried to eliminate parental consent, so they decided and determined that they were going to be on the abortion side where other states, you know, began banning abortions and limiting abortions, Massachusetts did the opposite. They wanted to make sure that there was literally unlimited access to abortion, and so we began to see this movement against pregnancy centers that we had never experienced, never experienced before ever, that somehow we were, you know, we were these bad, horrible centers that were limiting and restricting women's access to abortion, which, you know, frankly we offer a different alternative, but so this sort of happened. So you offer truly another choice. We offer again. So you use one of their words that I, I, you know, it's exactly. So Madison Avenue advertising meant to bamboozle, I believe. Right. And, you know, in an unplanned pregnancy, generally do want information. They do want to hear what their options are, and that's really what pregnancy centers exist is to offer women choices, to give them opportunities, to discuss what their options are, and to receive support. And so this is really, but Massachusetts, in addition to expanding the access to abortion or moving abortion, they started this, what we call the million dollar smear campaign that a million dollars was allocated to, as they call, educate the public about the dangers of pregnancy centers. And so that was always part of their, their plan. But as you mentioned, Governor Baker did veto, line item veto, that is one of the last acts that he had while in office as governor of Massachusetts. But then immediately, when our new governor took over, she put that right back in, and that's what they're spending now. So it's important that people understand this as taxpayer-funded campaigns. Well, in my readings, I noticed that, that reproductive something, E.E.N. Right. Reproductive equity now. And that, that the government, Commonwealth of Massachusetts, is giving them a quarter million dollars for a free abortion hotline. Yes. So what they're not only are they trying to discredit us, but they're also actively promoting and seeking for women to call and report us. So again, saying, but again, you can't defend yourself, anyone could call and say, I went to, you know, a pregnancy center, and they told me, fill in the blank, they lied to me. And you have no way to defend yourself to say, well, that didn't happen, or that person never came to our center. And so that's what they're actively pursuing complaints, even on the governor's, the website. They're actively saying, if you've been harmed by a pregnancy center, you report it here. So in the past, we've had virtually little to no complaints, and now they're trying to generate complaints so that they can justify their position. Correct. Correct. It's like we said, most centers have existed for over 30 years, and there was a Freedom of Information Act request submitted several when this sort of began, and they determined that out of over the past 30 years, there's only been three complaints against pregnancy centers, and they were all without merit. In Massachusetts. In Massachusetts. Well, the last 30 years. Over the last 30 years. That's a great piece of information. So you wonder, again, the question is, you would think thousands and thousands of women are being harmed by having a free pregnancy test and a free ultrasound and getting a free package of diapers based on all this, you know, what they're doing, you know, I almost feel like in some ways it reminds me of like the Salem witch trials, you know, all this hysteria. You know, all this hysteria has come out, and it's like, hmm, gee, women being harmed by a free pregnancy test or free package of diapers, that sounds pretty scary. Well, now in Illinois, the Thomas Moore group won a case, was that a free speech case or a religious case, which was it or was it both? It could have been both. I'm not super familiar with the details of that, but they won, mostly I presume, free speech. Connecticut also aligns defending freedom. They won. Was that free speech also? Right. Do you this issue as a free speech issue or is it a religious issue? I think it's from what we've, you know, we've understood it is a free speech. It is freedom of expression. It is freedom of religion. You know, your right to express your religious beliefs, to hold those beliefs and allow them to matter to what you're doing to actually exercise those firmly held religious beliefs, which is what pregnancy centers do. It is our firmly held belief that life begins a conception that propels us to do the work that we do, and that's, is a constitutional right. And I know that, you know, we talk about how they change words. The promotion movement said, well, conception doesn't begin to implantation, which is five to seven days after fertilization. Do we, can we get back to that word fertilization or just everyone uses conception? I think Jim was thinking, talking about its fertilization. And now they're trying to pigeonhole you as a quote unquote anti-abortion center. That's, I've seen that, I think on buses or whatever, here in the city of Boston, messages like that. What do you say about that? Well, again, they're spending a million dollars, so there's bus ads, there's billboards, there's digital advertising. I think any place where they could stick up a poster calling us anti-abortion, they're doing it. And I just, we find it extremely interesting that the only thing that they have against us is that we don't provide abortions. They don't focus on all the good things that we do do. Imagine being criticized and harassed because of one thing that you don't do to the detriment of all the good things that you do do. And so by calling us anti-abortion, they're trying to really delegitimize all the good services that we have done because it makes us sound like when you're against something instead of for something, right? It's like, hey, these are against my rights to have an abortion. These people are against my reproductive freedom instead of saying, gee, we're for women, we're for families, we're for informed consent, we're for help, we're for giving you real choices, we're for informed consent. They can't say that because those are all the things we're for, which to a normal average person sounds like a really good thing. Yeah, it does. So now, what can we be against so that can make people feel that we shouldn't just be delegitimizeized? Well, now, will they bring up as far as pregnancy care centers, would they bring up the abortion pill reversal that, oh, you can't prove that there's abortion pill reversal and that's a medical thing to avoid, how do the pro-life pregnancy care centers handle the abortion pill reversal argument? Right, we all promote, from what I understand, I'm not going to speak, but I believe each of the centers in the pregnancy care alliance either have a doctor that they refer to who engages in the abortion pill reversal process, which for those of people who don't understand and don't know what it is, it's once you've taken the first abortion pills, your chemical abortion is two medications. Once you've taken, if you've taken the first medication and you change your mind, the abortion pill reversal is basically progesterone being given to try to save and rescue that pregnancy. And it's been effective, I believe, you know, you and I talked earlier, it has about a 60, 8% success rate and so we refer for it, there's a hotline, there's a helpline, all the information we give out to women is, hey, if you change your mind, after taking this, you can contact his phone number, his website that you can reach and because the abortion pill is rapidly becoming the more preferred choice of abortion, overtaking surgical abortion. And so most women are going the route of taking the chemical abortion. And are we seeing more damage done by that, in other words, they take it at home and their bathtub or on the toilet, they end up, my understanding is that a higher percentage end up in the emergency room in a hospital. And that's not getting out there. Well, no, because the FDA also, in approving that, has said the only negative side effects that need to be reported are death. And so they're not requiring doctors to report and so right now there's a lot of anecdotal evidence saying that more and more women are showing up at the emergency room with heavy bleeding, terrible cramping, or just scared out of their mind thinking what the heck is going on, or not knowing what to do when they pass their baby. They have to dispose of it. And so think of the psychological effect this is having on women, thinking, oh my gosh, I have to dispose of my own child, and so, but when you're not required to report any of these things, it's at this point, it's largely anecdotal because there's no mechanism in place right now to report. And aren't the abortion, the pro-abortion people trying to say abortion, pill reversal is... Junk science. Yeah, jokes. Yeah. And it's hard to see that when you see, we have at least one that we have the woman gave birth to her child, who is now, I think, six or seven. So you can't argue when you see right in front of you the evidence of a child. There's a wonderful testimony that was, if you're at the celebration of life of a woman that was there whose baby is about a year old now, that took the, engage in the abortion pill reversal protocol and has her son and is so grateful. So it's really mind boggling that you say something is junk science, it doesn't work. We should be, that's deceptive for us to give it out as an opportunity for women and yet it works. Well, Dr. George Delgado was one of the initial people that said this could go back when I interviewed him. It was by a needle and now I think you can take it orally or more vaginally. And also progesterone, it's been around a long time, hasn't it been saving babies in the past? Absolutely. You know, you look at what's in the abortion pills themselves, which are very deadly harmful medications and yet you're going to argue over progesterone, which is a hormone. Right. And so again, it shows you the craziness, the radicalness, frankly, of the abortion movement and industry that they will argue over progesterone while insisting that these other medications can be literally sent to you in the mail or a vending machine on a college campus. Right. I saw about a year ago that the news was a ballet hooing that at Boston University, they were having pills put in the vending machine and the co-eds were all, they were so happy and I guess they don't really know what they're talking about. Now, so do you feel that the accusations, what are the accusations, do you feel that they're untrue or baseless? Absolutely. So the, some of the arguments, the number one is what we call that we engage in deceptive advertising and yet they never defined what deceptive actually is. And so it's hard to say, well, are we guilty of something when we don't know what the definition of deceptive advertising, are we deceptive just because we say we offer abortion information but not abortions, I know all of our centers that are in PCOW are very clear of making all our advertising is very clear that we do not provide or refer for abortions. All our statements, we are not bait and switching anyone because we do have found that women do one and they do, they are interested in getting information and someone to talk to. So the deceptive advertising claim is clearly, they haven't even really, one of our arguments to just to back up is none of the people who are responsible for these claims have ever come into a pregnant center and seen for themselves. We invited the governor, we've invited the attorney general, we've invited Senator Warren, we have invited all our state reps and a few state representatives have taken us up on the invitation and come, but silence and yet they're willing to listen to reproductive equity now, which is a radical pro-abortion advocacy group to say, this is what these centers are doing without any actual proof. The other claim is that we have fake doctors, you know, fake nurses, fake medical professionals, so I don't know any nurse that's going to, person who's going to pretend to be a nurse, you know, and come in, which is like, some of it is just almost comical if it wasn't so serious, you just want to laugh because you're like, I don't think, you know, these are doctors with legitimate practices, nurses, worked, you know, licensed registered nurses, nurse practitioners, very professional people and are being accused of being, you know, fake, that we lie to women and tell them that, you know, your father, that we try to hold them off and not see them, you know, like put off an appointment, we're like, that doesn't even make sense, that wouldn't help us anyway, you know, we want to see a woman as soon as she needs us, not saying, oh, we don't have an appointment available for six weeks, do you think a woman in an unplanned pregnancy crisis is going to wait six weeks, of course not, so it doesn't benefit, you know, some of the things they claim don't even make sense because even if we were trying to do it, it doesn't benefit anything, well, why are they making that claim then, that we would delay the appointment, I don't know, that's the question we can't really talk to anyone, you know, we're trying to open up a dialogue, but they're not interested in it, can I ask you, the Massachusetts Department of Public Health, aren't they supposed to be equal on both sides, why are they pushing just one side, the pro-abortion side, and not giving legitimacy almost to the pro-life side, that's a really good question, honestly, we've been a medical clinic, your options medicals had a clinic license since 2000, we've always felt the Department of Public Health treated us very fairly, we have to re-get our new license every two years, we, you know, have never been denied, but there's new commissioner, everything's changed with the new commissioner, and so you hate to think, but under a new administration, they get to appoint people, and you know, was it deliberate, I don't even, I can speculate, but it's really disheartening when for over 25 years we've had, we felt fairly treated, let's put it that way, we have felt that there has been no antagonism toward us, we felt they were honorable, they were fair, but now something switched, and when the Department of Public Health Commissioner stands out in public and calls us a public health threat, that is really shocking, frankly, and very disappointing, with again, without any evidence. And was a reproductive now, they standing beside the Department? Yes, yes, so that's a- So when they made the announcement for the million dollar campaign, the launch of the campaign, which they had a, you know, a news, what do you call it, a new statement, a news conference came out to announce it, a launch, yes, a reproductive equity now's head director was standing right there on the stage next to the Department of Public Health Commissioner. Do you have a screenshot of that? So you can- You can find it, you'll see it. Oh, I hope so, I hope it doesn't get removed. Well, Teresa Larkin, thank you so much for coming in and all the way from Revere, Massachusetts. I know, thank you. And there's heavy traffic, if you don't know. I know, even in the middle of the afternoon, I was surprised. So anyways, we really appreciate your sharing, your thoughts and your knowledge, and hopefully that will get out there to the general public, and that they'll take heed to what you've said. I hope that people understand the real battle that we're in and, you know, find a way to support us, find a way to push back against the lies. Very well. Well, folks, we hope you found today's show to be unique and formative, content rich truthful and thought-provoking. Thanks for watching and listening. My name is Brendan O'Connell, you're a friend for life. [Music] The preceding commentary does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff and management of WBCA or the Boston Neighborhood Network. If you would like to express another opinion, you can address your comments to Boston Neighborhood Network 302 5 Washington Street, Boston, Massachusetts 02119. To arrange a time for your own commentary, you can call WBCA at 617-708-3215 or email radio at bnnmedia.org. (upbeat music)