The Chris Johnston Show, your number one destination for a behind-the-scenes look at the game of hockey. Just thing on. Here's NHL insider Chris Johnston and host Julian McKenzie. It has been a week since the tragic deaths of Johnny and Matthew Goudreau, and the sporting world continues to be in mourning since their deaths. Of course, on behalf of CJ and everyone else at the STPN, we offer our most sincere condolences to the Goudreau family. We can't imagine what they've been going through this last week. Seeing the tributes all around the sporting world, as I mentioned, obviously different NHL teams, NHL players have offered kind words of support to the Goudreau family. Athletes like LeBron James and Mike Trout have also done the same as well as teams around the sporting world and baseball, soccer, football as well, and yesterday CJ, two candlelight vigils, one in Columbus, one in Calgary, both with 13-minute moments of silence, in commemoration of the Goudreau brothers. Just a lot of sadness these last few days. I don't know how you've been processing some of the news. I know I got to be at the vigil in Calgary yesterday, and I could talk more about that a little bit later. It's just been a really emotional time for a lot of people and seeing it on display. I know I've been emotional about it. I know a lot of people have been emotional about it. It's been a really tough time. Yeah, it's heavy, right? Especially this being kind of ramping back up to work this week. I've been reaching out and talking to some people I haven't talked to as much through the summer around the hockey world. I shouldn't be surprised, but how deeply it's been felt and how wide-ranging it's been felt. It's obvious. You see members of the flames or the blue jackets that consider John Goudreau a brother to them. It's natural that those people would be hurting. It goes far, far beyond that. I think that that really speaks to this family ultimately, such a tight-knit family, one that raised those two boys and to men that left the kind of impact they did. That's the thing with grief. There's not one way everyone experiences it. I found myself thinking of a lot of the happy moments, and then it pulls you back into like, "Oh, yeah, but that's gone," or, "That's ended." Unfortunately, most people don't get to choose or get to know when their time is up on this earth. I think the best we could say specifically about John Goudreau, I didn't know Matthew at all his brother. What a legacy he left in terms of you can just see the amount of people he touched in a positive manner, the way he inspired people, the way he entertained and excited them, and then obviously the legacy of his family, which was so important to him. I don't have a lot of good words or wisdom to impart or anything like that, but certainly this tragedy has been felt as you outline pretty nicely there. Beyond our closed-knit hockey world and across sports and even people, I posted a few things on my Instagram, some of the tributes and things like that and people that I know that are in my network of friends that aren't even sports or hockey fans are touched by it. It's an unimaginable tragedy and everyone I think is just working through it. Yeah, I forgot to mention among those tributes, too. Cole Caulfield of the Montreal Canadiens will switch his jersey number from 22 to 13 this coming season in commemoration of John Goudreau. I think that's a really touching thing and really interesting that those two players would have that connection. When I think of small players who want to make it work for themselves in the National Hockey League, I think of John Goudreau as a blueprint considering what he was like as a player, this evasive, skillful, dynamic, offensive talent, and so many hockey fans are going to remember that from his years in Calgary and the little bit he was able to show in Columbus as well. So to see that a player will switch their jersey number to honor that legacy, that is really special to see. For me, being in Calgary, the one thing I could never get over with this story is I've only covered the aftermath of him being in Calgary and the hurt that Flames fans have felt since he left. And one common theme I've heard over the last few days and talking to fans is how when John Goudreau did come back to Calgary in Columbus colors, they were angry, they were upset, and it's not uncommon for fans to do that when a player they've loved so much departs to another franchise. And in this case for John Goudreau, there's so many fans here who they grew up with Johnny too. Either they were young kids growing into preteens and teenagers just as Johnny Goudreau was going through his nine seasons. And they were also older fans too, who maybe after the 2004 run, there wasn't as much success. So they took a break with their fandom. And then they take a moment and they look at Johnny Goudreau and they say, well, wow, this is a special player. Maybe it's time to get back into it. He was an entry point for so many people in this city. And to see the thousands of people at the vigil yesterday, it's just a reminder that even if there are people who are upset about how everything was handled with him leaving as a free agent, that came from a place of love and heartbreak essentially. And even in a different uniform, that love for Johnny Goudreau was always there and it will continue to be there. In particular, in Calgary, though, they've had a memorial outside of the Scotiabank saddle dome with sticks, skittles, cases of purple Gatorade flowers, jerseys. I know they've moved part of it from the steps to a bit of a grassy hill right next to it. And they're going to have it around for the next 12 days. I think yesterday was the first of a 13 day stretch where they'll have it. But yeah, this city, they've they continue to love Johnny Goudreau. And even if there were people who felt away, seeing those feelings change as a result of this unfortunate tragedy, that for me is going to stick with me forever. I can't believe the way things unfolded the way that they did. And again, I can't help but just feel really sad for the Goudreau family as I know you are too, Chris. And just I know that detail for me, that's going to stick with me. Yeah, I mean, it's well said. And I think it speaks to what made Johnny Goudreau unique, right? He was an athlete that I think he let people in. You know, you could see his joy with the way he played the game. There was a certain magic to, you know, the things you would do on the ice. Obviously a lot of that's focused on how small he was and that he was able to operate in what can be a very physical and violent sport against much bigger men the way he danced in three on three over time. But you know, also he shared his family and his love of his family with the world. I mean, he's someone I think fans connected with not just because he was a superstar who had, you know, all these point totals and, you know, memorable moments for the flames in particular. But, you know, I think people connected with him because you felt like you knew him even if you didn't and certainly seen just a flood of pictures. I mean, it appears that he certainly wasn't shy to stop and greet fans when they encountered him in his day to day life. And so, you know, as I say, I mean, what a legacy that the family has built. It's a shame it ends in this way or that it changes in such a sharp direction. But, you know, let's, as time goes on, I hope people can focus on the positive memories, you know, as you get used to the idea that he's gone a little bit more. And obviously, they're going to have a memorial next week, a funeral for him and Matthew. You know, hopefully, as time goes on, his memory isn't forgotten. And I love that about Cole Caufield switching his number. I mean, I've seen a lot of fans have lots of opinions and I don't know that there's a right way to honor him. You know, some have said, just, you know, have 13 taken right out of circulation across the league. I kind of like the idea of Cole Caufield playing on in his memory, wearing the number 13, maybe keeping it in people's minds a little bit more. You know, whatever the organizations choose, the league chooses to honor him. Like, you know, I'm certainly not going to be critical of it. But I don't think there is one right answer. But I, I'll tell you the fact that, you know, Caufield talked about his admiration for Johnny Goodrow that they played together at the World Championship. And he sort of got to meet his hero in a more personal manner and how much that meant to him. And then now we'll carry on his legacy. To me, that just seems like a fitting, you know, tribute. And I'm sure there'll be many, many more here as time goes along. I know in Calgary, they have not given the number 13 out to anyone since Johnny Goodrow left. I'm very curious to know if they'll ever do that again. I'm very curious to know if the flames will honor that number in some way. They've honored numbers like Al McInnis and Joe Newen Dyke's numbers, falling just a bit short of full on retiring them. Maybe they just retire it. I'm not exactly sure. All I know from the team is that they will continue to honor him. It just, I know that fans, particularly in my market, have been saying they should full on retire number 13. You're right. It's going to be a discussion point for a while. I think you got to let it take some time, right? And I understand fans saying that, look, this is much we know for sure. No one is wearing it in the short term, no matter what the organization decides. I mean, it's, but I think sometimes you have to reflect on what's right. And look, I saw all those people like the almost the minute this happened, some of this discussion started up. And I get it because people just want to make sure that the gravity is recognized, right? That this isn't, I mean, it's just such an unimaginable thing to have happened. And so I think people, that's where that desire comes from. But I would say, tap the brakes a little bit and let time pass a little, let everyone reflect. And I'm pretty confident that whatever is decided, people will be comfortable with over time. That's well said too. Anything else you want to add before we move on to another topic on Johnny? No, honestly, there's not a lot of words for this one. I know we've talked for a few minutes about it, but man, this is such a, such a difficult situation. And I do want to hammer home just, I can't believe the levels, like how far this story, how it's touched people. And I think that really speaks to a life well lived, a life cut way, way too short. But you know, someone who really inspired people with his, with the way he lived his life, the time he had. Well said, and stick taps to the flames and the blue jackets for, for great ceremonies yesterday, honoring the life, the lives of both Johnny and Matthew, they will both be missed. It's not easy to transition from a topic such as this to other topics in the NHR world. But we're going to try to do that. There was some other big news this week with Leon Dreyseidel. We've talked about him a little bit throughout this off season. He gets his money, he gets the back, a massive contract extension for him in Edmonton, an eight year, a $112 million contract extension with a $14 million AAV. CJ, how did this deal come together? You know, it was kind of a step-by-step process, because you have to remember Edmonton didn't play the last game of the season until June 24th. Unfortunately for them, a two-one loss in game seven of the Stanley Cup final, but you know, that was very close to when the business part of the off-season kicked off. And business for the Oilers included, you know, the first round of the draft three days after their last game, a week after the last game, the opening of free agency in that period of time. They parted ways with former general manager Ken Holland, whose contract was expiring. You know, there was a several-week process before Stan Bowman was hired as the GM to replace Ken Holland, and you know, that I think was announced July 24th, if I'm not mistaken. So it really wasn't until late July where the discussions could get going, because I think there was a recognition, first of all, that Leon Dreyseidel had to be comfortable with the direction of the team under the new GM, had to maybe get to know that person or get an idea of what their vision was. Obviously, Jeff Jackson, the president of the Oilers, was running the hockey operations department in that period between GMs. I don't think he wanted to necessarily agree to some contract that he hands over to his new GM if that GM isn't comfortable with it. And so, you know, really, this played out over August. And, you know, it's from what I've been able to gather, I think, was a very smooth negotiation because, look, Leon Dreyseidel had all the leverage here. I mean, you're talking about a superstar level talent, a player who I believe is second in goals and points over the last seven years in the NHL, who was, you know, vastly outperforming his current contract and could be an unrestricted for agent next summer. I mean, he had to hammer him and his agents in the negotiation. I think the Oilers, you know, recognize what they had in the player, understood that they were going to give him a massive raise. And actually, from what I can gather, the only hiccup came when those offer sheets arrived from the St. Louis Blues, basically, you know, August 13th, when Dylan Holloway and Philip Broberg signed offer sheets to St. Louis and Edmonton at seven days to decide whether to match or not, you know, ultimately made a couple trades, didn't match those offer sheets. But that was seven days where they basically said, okay, we have to put these talks to the side. And, you know, I think what's important to note here is that dry side all didn't want this to go into training camp. You know, his, he basically had said, let's, let's finish it or not before the season. And then we'll put it aside until after the season. And, you know, they got it done in plenty of time, where it didn't become a distraction, you know, a lot of the play by play of it didn't leak out in the media. And they were able to take care of it. It kind of reminds me a little bit of the Austin Matthew situation in Toronto last summer where they managed to get the extension done, you know, in that case, it was a little before September and Leon's case. They actually had, I think the contract basically worked out, unfortunately, late last week, but when the good row tragedy occurred, you know, everyone decided to maybe step back for a few days. But it's similar in that they took care of the business in the quiet part of the summer before anything got too crazy. And now they come to training camp and it's just it's not a question. It's not a it's not hanging over everything. And obviously, this year, in Edmonton is so critical where that team is trying to find a way obviously, first and foremost, make the playoffs and get back to the cup final, but ultimately, you know, they fell one goal short of a championship essentially last year, maybe two, if you want to say they had to win the game three, two and game seven, but you know, they were as close as you can get more or less without winning the cup and they've got to find a way and want to find a way to try to to climb them out now. Okay, so dry side is out the way that leaves one Connor McDavid. What's next for him? Oh, man, that's a hundred and fifty million dollar question, I think give or take. We'll see what his next deal looks like, but you know, he has to get paid. And I look at it and it's this is I think that was on most people's minds. I'm sure Euler's fans minds. You know, there's no way this is a bad thing. It's no secret that Leon Drycidal and Connor McDavid are extremely close. Their their partners are very close. They spend time together in the off season personally. And obviously, they formed the best one to punch for my money in the entire league the last number of years. And so this this is on one hand, it's encouraging. I think it let's put it the other way. If Leon Drycidal didn't sign extension, if there was a question about his future, I feel like that might throw more doubt into what happens with Connor McDavid, but you know, nothing is guaranteed. And and I promise you, I'm not looking to make any headlines with my breakdown of the situation. I'm not looking to get radioed, but let's we're going to see what what time brings. I mean, Connor McDavid is an eligible to sign his contract till July 1st, 2025. That means he's going to get to see a whole nother season, live a whole nother season in Edmonton, see how things pan out, see how he feels with the organization, get a feel for, you know, what Evan Bouchard's next contract is, you know, obviously Edmonton will do whatever it possibly takes to sign him when they have the chance to. And I have no reason to believe he's going to want to leave, but it's going to be a massive decision for him at that time. And I think, you know, what's really notable is that the way Drycidal is close as he and McDavid are approached this was he doesn't have a full assurance 1000% that Connor McDavid is going to stay. I think he hopes and believes he's interested in staying, but he had to make a decision that was best for him and his family by signing this deal. You know, I've seen some people opine that he could have got more money as a free agent. I'm not so sure that even as great as Drycidal is, I mean, if you take this Edmonton was the only team that could give Drycidal an eight year deal, if you went to free agency next July 1st and got a seven year contract, you would have to get a 16 million AAV to match the total money. And so again, as great as he is, I'm not sure that this money was available to many where else. He got it all essentially not front signing bonuses other than one million per season. I mean, he got an absolute slam down coma on deal. I think the Oilers are smart to give it to him. I'm of the personal belief you can't overpay superstar talent. It's the hardest thing to acquire. Certainly in this case, when you have it and you know what you have, when you've seen a guy put up 81 points in the last three playoffs alone, I think you do whatever you can to keep him and keep him happy. And that's what they did. And I'm sure that's what the Oilers will plan to do with McDavid. But ultimately, it's going to come down to a decision he and his family make next summer. So it's just it's premature to handicap it. As I say, no reason to believe he's going to want to leave, but it's going to be perhaps, you know, he'll be signing that contract close to his 30th birthday. Like, it could be his last big deal, especially if he goes long term as Leon Dreysele did. And so, we're all just going to have to wait it out. And, you know, at this point, I'd say it's more than likely he's staying, but you can't say 100% just because, you know, ultimately, you know, we'll have to see what the next year brings. I think that that was the other part of this. If you're Conor McDavid, even if you're if you could say to him this summer, you know, Leon, I know you're going through your own contract. Like, I really want to stay at Edmonton too. But, you know, he can't sign the contract today. Like, things could change, right? I always like to remind you like our life passes quick. Like the next, you know, I can't believe we're on season four of our module. I mean, the next eight or nine months, we'll go by quickly in our minds, I'm sure, but a lot can happen, transpire in pro sports in that amount of time. And so, we're all just going to have to kind of wait this one out. But, you know, the fact that the Oilers got Dreysele signed for as long as they possibly could, I think that's a good sign because, you know, wherever Conor McDavid signs his next contract, again, most likely Edmonton, he's going to want to believe he's going to have multiple chances at the Stanley Cup and having Dreysele, you know, as part of the Oilers fold, certainly will give him some comfort knowing all the success those two have had. I feel like Edmonton would have to mess this up in comparable way for Conor McDavid to want to say, I'm out of here at this point with Leon deciding he's going to stay. Yes, they have to do with Evan Bouchard. I can't see him leaving at this point. If Dreysele, if this situation extended into training camp, then I could see a scenario. But you're right. It can't be 100%. Things can happen. We have to see how this season plays out. But at this point in my head, I'm thinking Conor McDavid to stay. Yeah, and me too. And like, that's why I say I'm really not trying to sound negative or I'm just, I'm trying to be real here, right? That's why you're listening. I mean, there was a point in time where Wayne Gretzky and Mark Messier had played together for a long, long time. One, two punch, obviously, they won four Stanley Cups as teammates in Edmonton, had all kinds of success. And at a certain point, Wayne Gretzky had to make a decision that was best for he and his family. And he forced this trade delay and Messier stayed in Edmonton. He won another cup with that team in 1990 before he moved on. I mean, things happen is all I'm saying. And there's, there's no guarantees with these, these sort of matters. But, you know, it is still a little premature for anyone to be too worried about it. I mean, if you're the Oilers, you now have McDavid for sure for two more seasons under contract. And you've got dry saddle for nine seasons. And you've got a pretty strong team built around them. And there's certainly going to be some salary cap situations to navigate, especially if they extend McDavid. And he makes 15 million, 16 million on his next deal, coupled that with probably 10 million give or take for Bouchard. You know, they're, they're going to have to navigate the cap in a way because they'll be, they'll all of a sudden become very top-heavy. But, you know, it can be done. And I think pretty clearly from the organization sent a pretty strong message with this dry saddle contract, right? I mean, they're not, they're like that, that is a very, again, it's a very well earned deal from Leon dry saddle side of things. But that's a very one side of contract. That's a player who got everything he could want. Maximum term, maximum signing bonuses, essentially, he's becoming the highest paid player in the league, starting next season when the deal starts, you know, full no movement clause. I mean, that that is as gold plated a contract, more or less, as you could ever get. And so, you know, that's Edmonton saying, look, we want you two to run this team as long as you absolutely can. And, you know, it's going to be, well, it'll be an interesting summer next year. I'll put it that way when, when, when Connor's able to sign that deal. But, you know, I will note too, he put a Instagram post out pretty excited about dry saddle extending. So, you know, I do think that you're right. This, this looks really good for Edmonton today. And, you know, let's see where we're at in eight or nine months time. Last question about dry saddle. What's going to be more exciting to follow next summer? Connor McDavid signing an extension or the 2025 free agent class. Whoa. Maybe that free agent class will see. I mean, we've just lost Leon dry saddle would have been the, the, you know, if we're just talking about excitement and hype, becoming a free agent, you know, you still got Mitch Marner. There's some other notable players that could be part of that class. But, you know, I think the McDavid, probably the free agent class will be more exciting because that's immediate, right? Like even McDavid, just because he doesn't sign on July 1st, as we've just seen, doesn't mean that that, you know, it might be a slow bleed through the summer. It could even, who knows, go in the next season. Like, let's, let's see how things play out. But I think probably that free agent class will be more exciting. But, you know, as we sit here, now there's some pretty juicy names on the list. But there's lots of time for those players to sign extensions. I've, I've learned that that's more, more often than not, what happens with the top, top guys in this league. Okay, let's go do it for our conversation on Leon dry saddle and the Oilers. It's time for RFA watch. I've got a list of names here. It's a pretty short list. But I just want you to give me the latest on those guys. There is a Toronto Maple Leaf in there. And I might turn it into a mini Leafs corner, the first one of season four. But we'll get to him in a second. Let's start with Jeremy Swamin in Boston. What's the latest on his situation? What? Look, I see there's a lot of discussion about this one. It's a big decision for the Bruins. You know, when you're talking about your number one goaltender in an off season where you've traded away your 1B already, I can understand why, you know, the noise picks up. I think it's a good thing that Jeremy Swamin is participating in what they call the captain's practices right now in Boston. I think that that's a good sign. It doesn't guarantee anything, of course. But, you know, sometimes when negotiations aren't going well, players will keep their distance. I'll give you an example. There's two restricted for agents in Detroit, Lukas Raymond, and more at Sider. You know, my understanding is they're currently skating together in Europe. You know, they're nowhere near Detroit right now. Again, a flight can get them there in less than a day. It doesn't mean that they're not going to be there. But I think that they're, you know, in the case of those two players specifically, you know, they're choosing to keep their distance and let the process play out with their agents and Steve Eisenman, the GM of the Red Wings. Whereas, you know, Swamin physically being in Boston and being there most of the summer, I think is a good sign. You know, he loves being a Bruin. The business side of the sport has been difficult for him. You know, last summer he was part of a salary arbitration situation. And he's spoken with reporters there about kind of having his eyes open to what it's like, you know, the business side of the game. But all of this just points to them getting a deal done. But that being said, it's not done today. And so, you know, the real test will be the start of camp in that situation, particularly because, you know, you can only imagine what it'll be like if the first or second day of training camp comes and he's not on the ice. But, you know, I just think that as much as there's a lot of talk about, you know, he certainly wants a big contract. You know, I think he'd really like to see what Igor Shisterkin's next contract looks like. You know, he's one year out from from needing a new deal in New York. But, you know, goaltenders have had a hard time outside of, you know, the Vasilevski's, you know, UC Sorrow's got a pretty big deal in Nashville this summer. But goalie's kind of a hard time getting above five to six million, unless you're really in a next level situation. But I think Swamin is certainly going to push for more than that. And, you know, he's got an agent in Lewis Gross, who, you know, represents a number of players that have negotiated what I would say just he's been a tough negotiator. He's done a great job for his clients. But, you know, he was the agent that represent William Melander when he, you know, sat out till December 1st, a number of years ago in his RFA discussions with the Leafs. You know, he's had a number of other players that have been at least willing to miss a bit of time of camp or the like when they're negotiating a deal. And so it's not an easy negotiation necessarily. But I just feel like you have two parties that want the same thing. And, you know, it's up to the Bruins to find a way to get it done because clearly coming off the year they had last year, really, I mean, look, this organization has been top tier for a long time, but they need a goaltender and they're going to have to pay Jeremy Swam and to get him signed to his next deal and get him in camp and get him ready for the season. More than six. You were just going off the number here. You think this deal has to be more than six? What do you see? Yeah. Well, I mean, look, that's what I mean. The next generation of goalies kind of beyond some of the existing deals are starting to get their contract. That's what I'm saying. I bet he'd love to see Schisturkin's number because it could end up being a favorable comparable forum, you know, but Schisturkin is under contract for one more year. So he probably isn't going to see that. I mean, let's see. I mean, I think I guess it depends too. Are you going short term in this case? Or is it end up being a longer term contract? And that's part of what they still have to work through. But, you know, I'll point to the fact there is still time here, more than, you know, almost two weeks essentially till the start of training camp and just how important the player is. Again, sometimes in these negotiations, you know, the fact he's physically embossed and I think is actually telling that there's a desire there to find an amicable solution and there is time still to reach that point. I wonder if he just does a short term and then with a salary cap going up, you try to use that as a prove it deal. There's an opportunity for you to bank it on more money as the cap goes up. That might, you know, that's probably the easiest solution. I mean, for one thing, we can just say it. If he signs a two, three, four year deal, the cap hit is going to be lower than if he signs a seven or eight year deal. You know, because, you know, if you get into seven and eight years, obviously the Bruins are buying UFA years. They're buying years where we don't know what the cap will be. But, you know, the NHL is in a pretty favorable economic environment right now. I mean, that was part of the Euler's calculation with dry cycle is, you know, they expect the cap to be rising. You know, there's a lot of people around the league that doesn't think we're too far off a hundred million dollar salary cap. And, you know, that's significant given that, you know, through those number of COVID years, the cap basically barely, you know, got above 80 million, just small incremental gains for a number of seasons. Now we're seeing real meaningful jumps. So, you know, that might be the ultimately where they land. And the best solution is something a little shorter that keeps the current AAV down, but also gives Swamin more time to add those credentials to see what some other players sign for to see exactly where that cap number goes. I mean, that's part of the give intake that I think you'll see with a lot of these RFAs, you know, and there's not, there's not a one size fits all answer. A lot of it is on the individual's preference, and obviously what the team's salary cap needs are in those negotiations. Okay, we move on from Jeremy Swamin to Nick Robertson. This commences Leafs corner uncelled by sponsorships since 2021. What's the latest on his situation? Well, he still doesn't want to be a Maple Leaf, you know, and I don't know if that's going to lead where he wants it to lead. I mean, really, I look at this, the organization, other than it's probably nuisance to have the speculation and the discussion and the questions about it, you know, the organization doesn't have to trade him, right? I mean, I think his his trade value at this point in time is not particularly strong. You know, he's a player that still kind of has to prove it a little bit. I think he understands that to a degree. I mean, part of, you know, this isn't a fight over money as far as I could tell. I think it's, it's a little bit more of a player and, you know, his side of his family and the like are frustrated by his lack of opportunity or perceived lack of opportunity being scratched in a game seven being sent down briefly to the American Hockey League last year in March, when the Leafs had some cap squeeze going on. But, you know, if you look at this without emotion, you know, if you're, if you're on the sidelines like us, it's just hard for me to see why the Leafs would, would deal him for pennies on the dollar when, you know, I think really the organization looks at it like we've helped develop you. You know, we've, we've stood by you. You've had some injuries, too. Like, it's not all just a case where he got in the bad books of, of a coach and didn't, you know, didn't, didn't find enough playing time. I think some of it has been circumstantial as well. And, and, and so if you're the Leafs, they need some help on left wing. They've got a new head coach. You know, there's a new chance to prove yourself with Craig Barouba. If maybe that was, didn't, you know, wasn't always easy, maybe under Sheldon Keith, I'm not blaming Keith, but, you know, I'm just saying there's a new dynamic. You don't need, now, now you need waivers to be sent to the American Hockey League. So, you know, suffice to say, I don't expect them to be put on waivers at any point in time. And, you know, the Leafs lost Tyler Bertuzzi in free agency to Chicago, and, and I think have an opening in the top six. It's not to say it would be Nick Robertson's, but certainly he would come to training camp in a world where he comes to training camp, competing for, for a job there. You know, the opportunity that he's been thirsting for appears to be at hand. So, you know, how this gets resolved will be interesting. But, you know, I just don't see it as much as he has communicated a desire for a fresh start. I don't know the organization's going to give them one. Now, it's, that's not meant to be a prediction. We'll see how this plays out if maybe there's a, a peace offering. But, you know, so far what I can tell you is his desire to move on hasn't changed. And the team's, you know, any, any pressure you might feel like, like I just don't really see it there because he doesn't have a lot of rights. And so, you know, it's, this is a, this is a true standoff. And, and, you know, the little bit I've got to know Nick Robertson over the years, he's a very confident young man, very, very driven. I mean, such a hardworking guy really. And when we talk about smaller players, he's another player that's, that's kind of, you know, found his way to the NHL and, and has had to be the smallest guy in a lot of leagues that he played in growing up and, and has got there through his, his hard work. But, you know, he, he seems a very headstrong guy. And so, I don't know how that resolves itself, but ultimately for him, it can't be a good thing to miss too much time, where he could be training, where he could be playing for the team. And obviously, there's even a financial element is, if you sit out into the season, those are days, every player gets paid essentially by the days run in NHL roster. So, every day you miss time, if, if it goes that far, you're, you're missing out on a paycheck. And so, you know, this one, this will come to a head at some point, but it, it might be, it might be a longer situation. We'll just have to see, hello, if anyone's stats changes, because right now it appears that they're, they're reasonably dug in. But while we're on the subject of the Leafs, it's September 5th, and I still see no announcement of a Yanni Hockenpaw signing. I don't think this is going to happen, right? I'm a little more optimistic. Really? But I will say, it's, I mean, look, this is the, the six foot seven mystery man, or six foot six, whatever he knows. How can you be a mystery man if you're six foot seven? Okay, we get what I mean. Like, yeah, what I mean. He's hiding in plain sight. But, you know, a very unusual situation. I've reached out to the people that would be directly involved in this and don't have any 100% confirmation. But, you know, it, it feels as though based on what I've been able to piece together, we're likely to see him at training camp in Toronto. But, again, that hasn't been confirmed. You know, obviously the Leafs have a few different situations. I mean, they've got the possibility of players coming in on tryout, the Nick Robertson's, you know, situation isn't resolved. And obviously, Yanni Hockenpaw doesn't formally have his contract, at least as of the time we're recording this on September 5th, just checking my phone. You know, he hasn't actually, they haven't signed him to a deal and registered it with the Central Registry of the NHL. But, I still think there's a world that happens, you know, obviously that the central issue here is his health, his ability to play. As I've talked about before, he ended last season in Dallas with a significant knee injury. Sounds like there's, you know, that he believes he can play. And I think the Leafs before signing him have to get comfortable with that idea too. So maybe does that mean showing up and participating in camp before the contracts registered? I mean, I don't know exactly how this unfolds. But, I have been cautioned against concluding that this isn't going to happen just because it hasn't happened. So, the best I can say is I still think this is on. But, stay tuned, because I've asked the right people, I don't have all the answers, and there's nothing more I can give you than that. That's why you're the insider. I'll take your word on that. I know, but you always want the answers. I'd rather give you the answer than leave you with that. But, but I will say, I do think, I don't think it's dead, or I don't think it's over, or, or, you know, even though the contract isn't there, it sounds as though he's still part of the team's plans. Okay. One more for you here on RFA Watch, and this is something that people have been asking us for the last few days to talk about. Seth Jarvis, he signs in Carolina, this happened last week, an eight-year extension worth 63.2 million, including salary being deferred to a ninth year that affects the AAV. You could tell me if I have this right, the extension would come in at a 7.42 million AAV because of the deferred salary component. It would have been 7.9 million otherwise. How are the Carolina Hurricanes able to even do this? Can you explain this to me like I'm five? Well, I love this contract. I love any new wrinkle that comes along. I love nerding out in NHL CBA. This is your time to shine, nerd out for all of us. I know, and it's like, I realize that half the people's eyes are glazing over, or ears are glazing over as we go through this. But, you know, I think the best way to think of this is the present-day value of money is what's central here. And I'll give you an example. Leon Dreyseidel signs his extension. He's getting 15 million dollars up front in a signing bonus, even though it's actually more than 15 million, and his cap hit is 14 million. The value to him in that is that he gets that money right away, and he can invest that. And if you invest 15 million, even if you are doing it in a very sort of non-risky way, I mean, you can make another million dollars in interest in a year. And so that's a way for him to get more money in the short term than what his AV is. What this is, is basically just the opposite of that. It's the team. And in this case, there's an owner that has to pay that money. It's a chance for that owner to not have to put his money out initially. And, you know, obviously they're going to owe Seth Jarvis, I think 15.6 million in the deferred payments after the contract expires. And the reason that's valuable to Tom Dunden is that's 15 million he gets to keep over the life of this deal and invest as he will or save or what have you. And then he doesn't pay it until eight years from now when it's going to be worthless. We all know intuitively whether you went to math class or do you think about this? I mean, anyone who's bought bread or eggs or meat or had to just live their life, it's getting more expensive, right? I mean, we've gone through an inflationary period here. And so what that is, if you think about it in the simplest terms, your money is worthless today, then it would have been if you had $100 two years ago, it went farther than it goes today. And the same can be said for this $15 million that Seth Jarvis is deferred. If he were to get all that up front, it would be worth more now than it's going to be worth in eight years time. I think it's fair to intuit because we are in inflationary times. And so there's a calculation that's included in the CBA to kind of address that to kind of put a specific devaluation of that over time on. And the best way to understand this is that they use that calculation. He's technically deferring salary in his first year, his second year and his seventh year of the deal. So each of those numbers gets what the present day value is, and that brings the cap hit down by 500,000. And so what does this accomplish? First of all, it's a it's a nice gesture, I would say from player like Seth Jarvis. He's he's helping his owner out financially. He's helping the team out in a sense, because his cap hit is lower than it would be by almost 500,000 per season, because he's willing to take this money later. For him, there's some comfort in that too. I mean, look, I don't know how things can change with taxes. There's always risk in the future because you don't know exactly what's going to go on, but he can plan knowing he's going to have that money even beyond his current deal. And I think this is something you're going to see, especially some smaller market teams try to use more. I don't know how many players will sign up for it. You know, it's funny. I got flooded with messages, including from people, like in the industry that I didn't even reach out to that were like, they saw me tweeting about this when this contract came out and preemptively sending messages like, just so you know, like we have tried this with players, most players don't want it. Most players, of course, want as much money upfront as possible, just because that's money they can put to work for themselves right away in terms of investments and what they want to do. But, you know, in this case, the hurricanes managed to convince Seth Jarvis to structure his deal this way. And they have a cap benefit. They have a financial benefit. And, you know, this is this is the most, I guess, full example we've seen of this. Shane Don actually signed a contract in Arizona in 2016, a one year deal where they deferred the payments all the way through to 2022, the signing bonus payments. And so they achieved a lower cap it. Though in that case, that was more about the owner, obviously, cash flow issue wasn't about, you know, trying to keep the cap at lower. And in Shane's case, he was willing to work with the owner. He played in Arizona's, you know, his whole career after they relocated from Winnipeg. And he was guaranteed these payouts in the retirement. You know, so, but this is the most amount of money that's been deferred. And I think we will see more of it. I just don't know how many players are ultimately going to sign up for it. So it's funny, there's like, there's some misconceptions, like there's nothing illegal here. They haven't reinvented the wheel. They're just, this is the best example where a team has used it to really significantly lower the cap it. And they've convinced the player to take a chunk of his salary, almost what? Almost 25% of the salary is not going to be paid until after the contract's done. Is it easier to offer these types of deals to restricted free agents compared to UFAs? I think in certain circumstances, I would say yes. Because maybe you could argue and that Seth Jarvis ends up getting more total money in this deal than maybe he was going to get as a restricted free agent because he was willing to defer. You know, I think that's part of the negotiation that happened. You know, but I could see a world where, you know, Shane Don would have been an unrestricted free agent. For example, when he signed his deal, you know, someone who wants to maybe give their team a little bit more of a hometown discount without giving the full discount and money might might be inclined to do what Shane Don did. As I said, his payments, I believe went through 2022, you know, quite a few years after he was done playing, you know, there would be some appeal I could see for veteran player to get paid for many years into retirement just because it's a cash flow coming in. You know, I mean, you're not, you're not necessarily drawing off your savings. You can live a little bit off off that money. And that's, you know, essentially, I mean, Shohei Otani has done the absolute extreme of this. Yes. I don't know that we're going to ever see something that extreme in hockey, just because Shohei's made so much money, he can, he can also make a significant amount of money and endorsements and things that he does both in Japan and the US. But you know, he's deferring $68 million per year for 10 years, which will essentially be during his retirement. You know, I imagine he's doing that in part because in after his career, he's probably going to live in a more tax friendly environment than the state of California, where he currently plays for the LA Dodgers. And so he's probably planning on being able to make some tax benefits there to realize some tax benefits there. But I think it's not just RFAs that that will look to this. I think if you're signing a player and you know they're approaching the end of their NHL career, it could be a way to say like, Hey, we'll pay you five years into retirement. And you'll help us in the short term by lowering your cap hit. And I could see that negotiation working out. I mean, look, it's essentially what Vegas tried to do with Jonathan Marsha. So, you know, I don't know the exact numbers, but I do know that the offer they made him before he went to free agency included deferred payments way, way, way, way, way into the future. Like it wasn't just, you know, one year after the deal. And you know, part of that would be to sort of make the case that, Hey, this lowers your cap it now works for the team. And it guarantees you get paid long into retirement. You know, it really comes down to an individual decision by the player. But I could see some players where that makes sense. And certainly this has received enough attention. You can imagine teams are going to explore this a little bit more. I do know it was a discussion that was happening and not just in Carolina this summer. They also got Jacob Slavin when he did his extension to take some of that money deferred. So, you know, I don't know that it's going to be like the hottest trend where every player is doing it. In fact, my gut tells me that probably isn't the case. But I think we're going to see more and more of it. And I'm here for it, man. As I said, it's a little bit nerdy. It's a little bit convoluted. If you don't think of these concepts often, but you know, it is a creative way for a team and a player to to navigate a cap world, right? I mean, that's that's ultimately what everyone's got to do is is every team is trying to build the best team they can with that salary cap and every player is trying to earn as much money as he can. But but a lot of players don't want to hurt their team's ability to win. And I think they found a nice balance here with this this Jarvis deal with the hurricanes. A stupid question. I just want to make sure I didn't miss it. So if it's going to go to that extra year with that salary deferred, exactly how much is he going to make in that year? Well, he'll get 15.67 million, I think is the number. So that's a pretty big he's going to get a 15.67 million dollar check. I mean, before taxes and everything get taken out, but he's going to have that payday. And let's face it, this is a player that will probably be signing another deal beyond this one. And so who knows, maybe his next contract, he negotiates a big signing bonus at the start of that contract, like he could be getting $25 million on a day or something. I mean, it's not impossible. And so as I said, I don't think this is necessarily a bad deal for Jarvis. It's not one some players would want to do though. I mean, there's, I guess there's some risk there, you know, does he if he gets bought out later on, like, I don't know how all that would be treated. Again, some of this is new ground and we haven't, you know, we haven't encountered exactly how the league would interpret the contracts. In that case, I mean, there's some risk, of course, whereas I think there's a little bit less risk. I mean, the more money you can get in your bank account today, owed on your contract, the less risk you are of ever being bought out, you know, they can't take it back. You know what I'm saying? So I understand why players try to frontload deals. But, you know, I do think we will see more of these. And, you know, I said, Jarvis seems like a, I mean, what a character. I mean, you see, he did his press conference wearing that shirt of him with holding the bag. So he seems like he has a lot of fun, the Jarvey party there in Carolina. And, you know, the hurricanes are a creative organization. I mean, I don't know if they'll bristle at this, but they're kind of the new computer boys, right? I mean, they have Eric Talski running the organization from a very unique background that they hired Tyler Delo into their operation this summer as an assistant GM. And obviously has a very strong analytics background. And so I, and they have an owner in Tom Dunden, who's not afraid to sort of rock the boat either. So I think that they're going to be a creative organization. And I suspect there'll be more of this probably from them and others too. Which, which name sounds catchier, Christnomics or CJ nomics? Because that's basically what we just, CJ nomics maybe. I like this. CJ nomics. Well, this concludes CJ nomics because you took us all to school with that one. Thank you for explaining the Seth Jarvis situation. I'm worried I didn't explain it well enough like you're five years old, but I did my best. I mean, look, it's, it's a little different if you're just not used to thinking about contracts, but it's not, it's not really that complicated in the sense that if you were supposed to get paid five million today on a signing bonus, but you're taking it in eight years time, it, that five million isn't a true five million. And basically the NHL has come up with a rate based on the prime rate at the moment to, to, to gauge what that is. And so I think in the case of the five million, essentially the Jarvis is deferring, it's like, it's worth like 3.8 million in the future based on, on the, the rate they use. And that's, that's essentially how the cap is calculated. And, and that's that, we're going to see more of it. So let's, let's get you, let's, well, I have to get the, like a studious, you know, I'm the teacher in session here. Yeah, you need like a, like a pipe and like a tweed suit. Look, as just embrace being a university professor as best as you can. Yeah, I mean, it's fitting. We're back to school week here in the world. That we are. Is there anything else that we did not cover today that you'd like to touch on before we get out of here? No, I think that's a pretty good start. We're, we're back, man. I know we were, we dropped in a couple times over the summer in the off season, but which, let's do this thing. It's good to be back, man. It's good to be back. [Music]
