Jesse Kelly Show
A history of Rome
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And yes, we are live here and we are doing history tonight. I did a bunch of politics the first hour. If you missed that, go download the podcast. I did Medal of Honor Monday, second hour, and then a bunch of history, second hour, whatever. If you missed any part of this, including the backstory, go to iHeart Spotify, iTunes, download a podcast of it. We're going to continue with our history on the battle of Actium here. Mark Antony. He has his Egyptian queen Cleopatra with him. They have relocated all their money, their ships, their legions, and they've moved it into Greece. Octavian and his wonderful general slash admiral Agrippa. They know they have a problem on their hands. That problem is this. Remember, as the great Von Klausch with said, war is a continuation of politics by other means. This is also a political war. Octavian has to try to hold together his support at home. That's tenuous at best. Mark Antony is going to invade in Italy. He's going to invade. And if he invades, if Mark Antony is able to go on the offense, if he's able to start the momentum in his direction, it very likely costs Octavian this war. Because if he lands, then Mark Antony is going to have people, political leaders, kings, queens, come over to his side. And that's a part of this we need to talk about for a moment as we pause on the on the mobilization. Right now, Octavian, Agrippa, they're in Italy. Mark Antony and Cleopatra, they're in Greece. But remember, Rome, I talked about colonization and the different empires that were attached to it. There are different kings of different areas with their troops and their treasure pledging loyalty to the different sides for different reasons. And the reason I'm not going to go down the list of all these people is it's too long, it's too detailed, it's too boring. And more importantly, they tend to switch a lot. If you actually read the details of this story, you'll find that some of the guys who were allied with Mark Antony were people he had fought and tried to kill on the battlefield before and same with Octavian. And sometimes they switch and guys are always switching sides, always licking their finger and sticking it in the air. Member King Herod, everyone knows that name King Herod from the Bible, King Herod, King Herod's a player in this game too. Did you know that? He's got troops, he's got money. Who does he pledge loyalty to? I don't know. There's there's Mark Antony, but maybe Octavian, that he ends up going with Mark Antony, you should know for a while, but that that's the way the story goes. If you are winning and it looks like you're winning, then kings and their kingdoms will come because you're getting the momentum. And if it looks like you're losing, not just kings and kingdoms, your own troops, your own senators, your own generals, your own abbels will abandon you. And that will be a story here. And so Octavian and Agrippa sitting there in Italy, they know they cannot allow Mark Antony to invade Italy. They simply can't. They have got to stop him before he puts boots on the ground. Well, I guess they're sandals before he puts Roman sandals on the ground in Italy. They have got to do something about it. So they gather up their troops. They have a large number of troops to I would say roughly equal to Mark Antony's not quite as many, but roughly equal. They gather up their troops. They gather up their ships and they sail from Italy over to Greece. Now, this is where the story gets very interesting from Mark Antony and Octavian standpoint, to be honest. Where do they go first? Do they go straight from Mark Antony and all his legions and their main base? No, of course not. They start taking important ports, important islands, little supply line areas that are important to Mark Antony. Remember, Mark Antony supplies his power base. It's back in Egypt. Octavian and Agrippa, their supplies, their power base, it's from Italy. And so they don't attack what is strong. They don't go and try to slam into Mark Antony head to head. He's the great Mark Antony. He's this amazing general. They start snipping off this little city and this little port and this little thing. And as they do this, the momentum starts to build for Octavian. He shouldn't win this, starts to build for Octavian. Slowly, you get a general here who will switch sides, a king there. Octavian and his general Agrippa, they keep grabbing these little hinterland areas. And as they're grabbing the hinterland areas, Mark Antony is sitting in his power base, debating twiddling his thumbs. What do we do? Do we go out? What do we not do? Octavian eventually marches his army into a high ground position above the harbor. This is important. Mark Antony and Cleopatra are in a harbor town. Just know that the harbor matters. Their ships are there. Their troops are there. Octavian is in the high ground above this area. Mark Antony, he's dying to fight. He has the troop strength. He has the money. He's ready to go. He's challenging Octavian to single combat. You, me, sword, spears, Octavian just ignores him. Mark Antony takes his amazing legions and they were amazing. And he marches them out to have a big land battle with Octavian. And Octavian says, nah, I'm good. I'm good here. I don't feel like it. And he just continues a grip like I keep calling him general slash Admiral because he was amazing at both. Agrippa continues to win every naval battle and continues to sweep Mark Antony off the seas. C's control of the shipping lanes. C's control of this. Mark Antony in his growing desperation eventually attempts to fight for the fresh water that's supplying Octavian's camp. He loses that battle. And now, now he's in a terrible situation because the supplies are no longer pouring in for his troops. Remember, these were equal armies, equal navies. These were equal. And Mark Antony was no question a superior general to Octavian. No question there. But now Mark Antony is stuck in this harbor. He's stuck in this town. Disease breaks out. People begin as Octavian gets stronger and stronger. Mark Antony's own men continue to defect to the other side. And every time his men defect, and I don't mean some random lowly guy, high up generals and aberrals are defecting to the other side. And every time they do, they're bringing all of Mark Antony's battle plans with them to Octavian because if you just show up as a defector, Octavian might just crucify you on the spot. You don't know that he's going to welcome you with open arms. So you have to show up with something tangible. What are you bringing to my camp? What are you bringing to my team? And so these guys, they show up with plans. This is how many troops Mark Antony has. This is his battle plan. This is what he's going to do here. This is what he's going to do there. And Octavian refuses, refuses to fight on any major land engagement with Mark Antony because he can't win that. He's taken all the supply lines and Mark Antony's men, they now have the ultimate killer of troops throughout history. They have disease. When the nutrition goes down, when the fresh water goes down, then get sick. You know, it's a very, very brief side note. It is one of the things I remember about the Marines. Yeah, there were times we were a little short on food here or there, this training exercise, this or that, but we generally, we had food. We had calories and people complain about MREs, those, those garbage meals. And I complain about them too. We all complain about them. That's part of being a Marine. You complain about the MREs, but they were packed with calories. Why would I carry an M16 in Iraq from Vietnam? That's not an exaggeration. My M16 was dated from the Vietnam era. One of my guys had to tape his upper and lower receiver together with duct tape. Yet we always had food. Why was that? Well, that Vietnam era M16 can still kill somebody from a long ways away. But if I don't have enough nutrition, I'm going to get sick. And then I'm going to die. And then we're going to lose. Mark Antony's men don't have what they need. And Mark Antony gets desperate. And so he has another plan. And that's when the battle of Actium comes. Hang on. It is the Jesse Kelly show talking about the battle of Actium here doing a history thing on a Labor Day. It feels like a good day to do a history thing. Anyway, you can email the show if you want Jesse at Jesse Kelly show.com Octavian is now in a position of strength. He is getting defectors from Mark Antony all the time. Mark Antony is losing troops by the 1000. They're dying of disease. They're defecting over to Octavian. He's gone from being the one who should win this to now he is desperate. How desperate is he? His plan is no longer to Sally forth and beat Octavian in battle. He simply doesn't have the manpower for that at all. His plan is to get out. The plan is take the massive amount of treasure they brought with them. He and Cleopatra and somehow on the high seas escape back to Egypt. If you could get back to Egypt, you have the Egyptian queen with you. You can give you time. Maybe you can raise an army. You have all this money. You have a chance, but you've got to get out. Octavian and a gripper, not only are they not stupid. Well, there's yet another defection that dooms Mark Antony here at the battle of Actium. Mark Antony's Admiral, I'm just going to use that term, his guy in charge of the seas. He defects at this point in time and he lets Octavian know exactly what Mark Antony is planning on. So what do they do? Well, this, I want you to picture this in your mind. Don't worry about don't worry if you don't get it exact, but there's a harbor. There's a harbor. There's a, there's a mouth of the harbor. Okay, where you get in and out. You got that harbor? Little mouth where you get in and out. Mark Antony, Cleopatra, all those troops, all those ships, they're inside of the harbor. A gripper, Octavian, they know the troops, the ships have to leave the harbor. They know there's going to be a big naval battle. So they station their ships outside of the harbor in a big, wide formation because they want to fight and win right here. Mark Antony, Cleopatra, all the ships, they do a formation. I was trying to think of the best way to describe it almost looks like a shovel is the best way I could describe it. So what's the head? What's the digging part of the shovel? What's the leading part of it? What's the tip? Well, the tip of it is the warships, the actual warships. And let's pause for a moment and discuss naval warfare back then because my gosh, you've heard me discuss World War II naval warfare and how much it terrifies me. That's why I love talking about it. It's how much I, I honor those vets of just being on something that floats with the fire and the, and the drowning and the, the, the, the darkness and the scared. It just, it's a terrible way to do combat. Well, it's somehow even more terrible in ancient times. One, a huge, huge way you fought back then on the water was, I can't believe this was a thing. You rammed each other on purpose. I'm not making that up. You would have a, a very strong, sometimes sharp. You would, you would, you would purposely make the bow, the front of your ship into a battering ram and you would try to nail the other ships. It's about maneuverability. You try to nail them in a way where they can't nail you. So you try to put the front of your ship in their side. You would ram them. That was one way. Another way they did naval combat back then was shooting missiles at each other. Me, I'm talking about catapults, throwing stones, throwing spears, throwing just slings with rocks, but archers, bows and arrows, sometimes flaming bows and arrows. Sometimes not, sometimes just regular ones, but you would shoot those at each other. Sometimes you're trying to light the ship on fire. Another way they would do things, they would throw and shoot grappling hooks at each other to try to drag a ship close enough to you. So you in full armor can get off your ship, fight your way onto the other ship and do hand-to-hand combat on the other ship, possibly while both ships are on fire and I should probably point out at this point in time. It doesn't matter if you're Michael Phelps. You very likely are not going to be able to swim if you happen to go into the drink because your armor, it's at this point in time it would have been chain mail. So don't think plates think like a like a well chain mail should be self-explanatory enough, like a shirt made of metal, but it's so freaking heavy that you're going to go down to the bottom of the deep, like a rock if you happen to go into the water. So it's not as old Chris said, just take it off. Again, I understand that. It's not like today, brother, where it's a couple snaps or a quick zipper and your armor comes off. That's one, two, you don't have a moment when you're being stabbed and shot and lit on fire. Hey, hold on, I gotta take my armor off so I can dive in the water. That's not how that works at all. Am I painting a clear enough picture for you when you died in naval combat back then you burned a death or you drowned or you drowned and burnt to death or you were stabbed at the high on the high seas or you had an arrow go through your face on the high seas. And if you did happen to make it into the water with your armor off and you could swim, you could also be beaten to death by the oars of a rival ship or shot with arrows. It sounds you know how you know ancient combat just in general sounds like the worst thing in the world with swords and spears and stabbing. Naval combat is somehow worse. It sounds worse. Every time I read something about it, my jaw drops that men did this. And so the tip of that shovel was the fighting ships. The shaft, it was the treasure ships of Cleopatra because the goal wasn't to win. It was to get back to Egypt. Hang on. It is the Jesse Kelly show doing a big fat heaping helping of history here on a Monday on a Labor Day. I hope you have enjoyed your weekend, your time with family. And a Jewish producer Chris asked a very good question because we're the ships are getting ready to slam into each other here at the Battle of Actium. He asked, how do you even get your troops to fight for you with terrible naval combat like that? Well, it's an interesting question. And one, Mark Antony had to wrestle with. Remember the Mark Antony plan here was to escape. It wasn't necessarily to win. It was to escape, but you can't say that to the troops because then then the ones that haven't defected will defect. You can't say that to the troops. In fact, what do you do with the extra ships? Because remember he was so down on manpower, he couldn't man even close to all of his ships. You may say, well, you should just burn them. Well, what does that say to your troops? If they look up and you're burning half of the Navy that was about to fight, you're telling the troops, you don't have a chance. So again, okay, so back to the story. Antony's forces with the shape like a shovel. The tip obviously is leading. The spade is leaving. They leave the harbor. Agrippa's forces spread out. So Antony can't get around them. And Agrippa's forces spread out because they're trying to circle around Antony. Remember the goal is ultimately ram them from the side or from the rear, sink their ship. Your ship stays afloat. Antony sees this. He's not an idiot. He spreads out as well, but he doesn't have the numbers anymore through spread out the way Octavian and Agrippa have the numbers to spread out. His lines get too thin. Octavian, Agrippa, these two men who have spent so much time waiting, not going to battle, not marching out, not engaging Mark Antony. They waited until this exact moment. And then there was no holding back as soon as Mark Antony spread his troops out too far to avoid getting surrounded. That's when Octavian and Agrippa smashed forward, launched into their attack and they obliterated Mark Antony's Navy. And I don't want to act as if it was a five minute thing. Men died in droves that day. Mark Antony's men died by the thousand that day, men dying, screaming, burning, fighting on the water in Mark Antony. And I just don't know how you can defend this move. I've read a lot of different things on this and I just I don't know how you can defend this move. Mark Antony chooses this moment to pop sail and take off with Cleopatra and all the money. And he leaves his men there on the water and they blow through the Octavian Agrippa lines. They're just going too fast and they take off for Egypt. Octavian and Agrippa see this, you should know, and they try to pursue them, but they're still they still have to go win the battle of the troops who are still fighting. So you can't just take your whole force and pursue in pursue Cleopatra and Mark Antony. You have to stay and you have to win the day. But they do. They stay. They win the day. And the battle of Actium and Mark Antony's hopes are almost gone. Not quite though. You see, after Octavian wins that day in Agrippa, Mark Antony's troops who were still there were shown mercy by Octavian. Now don't don't think too highly of Octavian. You can love him. It's fine. He's actually very, very cool, dude, but this was again as much a political propaganda war as anything else. There you don't want the Roman people getting the news that you slaughtered Roman troops and mass. This was a civil war. You want to look like the good guy who spared everyone. He does spare most of the troops. Some, of course, he kills, but spares most of the troops. But Cleopatra and Mark Antony are alive and they have all the money. And here's the rub. Octavian has to have that money because Octavian has promised all of his veterans all his troops that money and he doesn't have any more money to pay. He has to have it. It's not an option. And he knows he has to pursue this fight. Cleopatra goes straight back to Egypt. Mark Antony decides he's going to stop at a critical port. Doesn't matter where it is. Not going to bore you with the details because he has four legions at this port and you have to go buy this port to get to Egypt and he knows Octavian is coming except momentum is a powerful thing, isn't it? By the time Mark Antony gets to this fort where his general and his legions still are, they have already defected to Octavian and he's fresh out of friends. And well, to wrap up the story here, Mark Antony and Cleopatra, if you read the stories, it makes it sounds like it was five minutes later. It took time. Octavian did march down. He did do all kinds of backbiting negotiations. He was negotiating with Cleopatra and Mark Antony together. He was also at the same time negotiating with Cleopatra behind Mark Antony's back trying to get her to assassinate him. And she may have actually ended up doing that because Mark Antony, Sally's fourth for one last naval battle just in time to watch his entire navy sail out and promptly defect to Octavian, leaving him with nothing. Octavian goes back to Egypt where he's told Cleopatra is dead. She's not that was a lie and he shoves a sword into his abdomen. Mark Antony's gone. And of course, the famous story everybody knows from there. Cleopatra. Allegedly. No one actually knows this for sure. Allegedly kills herself with an asp. An asp is not a cobra. Everyone says it's a cobra. It probably was a cobra because it's Egyptian, but asp in the way they use it just meant venomous snake. And we don't know that for sure. Why did she do it? Well, she didn't want Octavian to do what he was going to do. That was keep her prisoner, march her through the streets of Rome and a triumph, and then probably have her ritually strangled in a Roman dungeon. She kills herself in an effort to save her son that she had. Remember the beginning of this story with Julius Caesar? His name was Cesarean. I think he was 16 at the time. If I remember right, except he was promptly betrayed by his tutor and Octavian put him to death to avoid any of these troublesome questions about who the real ruler of Rome was. Octavian eventually became who you know as Augustus, Caesar, Augustus. And there was no more client kingdom of Egypt. Now, after all this, Egypt simply became part of Rome. And to wrap this long story up, we'll do a little very little bit of politics as we do a couple emails and our final segment here. One of my favorite historical stories of all time. As Octavian is in Alexandria, the city was named for Alexander. He didn't name it. I should know one of his generals named it, but the city was named for Alexander and Alexander's tomb was there. It's where his body was. Octavian wanted to go see him. He went and saw him. He placed a crown on his corpse or the coffin. I can't, I don't understand how exactly that would work because Alexander had to be a little ripe by this point in time, but places a crown on him. And then these Egyptians who were there said, Hey, do you want to come see the Ptolemies and these pharaohs and Augustus says, I came to see a king, not a bunch of corpses. And that is the story of the battle of Actium. And let me just tell you, if that interested you at all, that could have been, I just did like two hours on it. That could have been 40 hours. This story is so in depth and so amazing and full of drama and backstabbing and violence and assassinations. I skipped over gobs of it. But that is the story of the battle of Actium. And from there, Octavian ruled Rome and Rome became an empire. And you know, relatives like Nero and Caligula came out of this whole thing. Yeah, rough, huh? Anyway, one more segment. Let's do some headlines to some emails. Hang on to Jesse Kelly show. I like it. It is the Jesse Kelly show final segment of the Jesse Kelly show. A bit of an unorthodox Jesse Kelly show on a Labor Day. Remember, if you missed the politics of the first hour, middle of honor Monday, like two hours of Roman history today, all that is available. Just podcast it. I heart Spotify iTunes. You want to send me an email? We're about to do some emails here as we try to wrap this thing up. You can email me Jesse at Jesse Kelly show.com. We love your emails here. Also, don't roll it out. Rolled out an accent. As I've said many times, there's nothing I find more hilarious in politics than Democrats pandering to black people. It just murders me when they do it. And they all do it. Everyone remembers Hillary Clinton's hot. I keep hot sauce in my purse. Joe Biden. Of course, he was always worse at it and more hamfisted. Ah, they're going to put you back in chains. Of course, Joe didn't wasn't all that delicate about it and dome. Owning a rental property sounds like a dream. 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Get the party started with my new album, Infinite Icon Out Now, and stream the new single Bad B*ck Academy. I wanted this album to be an escape. Take people to a happy place where they can heal and party an equal measure, and most of all, be your own unapologetic icon. Listen on iHeartRadio and visit infiniteicon.com to order the album, sponsored by 11/11 Media. The young lady who grew up as a valley girl in California when she wasn't in Canada, got herself a new Georgia accent today. Let's just get through the next 64 days. And next six to four days. Haha. And I kid you not. I kid you not. The audio sucks, so I'm not going to play it for you. She's talking about how many collard greens she used to make. Chris, all I'm not making go look it up. She said that she used to make collard greens so much that she had to make them in a bathtub. Dome has never, she's never made collard greens, but I do appreciate her for once again delivering on the greatest comedy there is Democrats pandering to black people. It will never, ever, ever not be funny. Jesse, you know what makes me mad? He didn't say makes me mad. When people supposedly on our side used the communist language, I just saw some idiot Fox News reporter the other day saying Kamala's position on women's reproductive rights was blah, blah, blah. He was quoting her. Say abortion, idiot, or better yet, her position on murdering babies. He goes on to say a couple of other things. That's all a great one. I salute you. His name is Blaine. The language is so important. And you know it's important because the communist is adamant about it. And you've seen that over and over again when they scold each other. If they step out of line, you've seen this so many times and remember when Joe Biden, when Joe Biden got up in the state of a union address and Marjorie Taylor green got under his skin and used the word illegal immigrant. He apologized. He came out and apologized. The communist uses language because he has evil destructive plans. You don't have to be purposeful with your language if you're just being honest. But if you're trying to lie, that's when you kind of have to be really careful about what you say. You have to be selective about what you say. That's why they are so purposeful with their language. And it's why we can never ever ever ever ever use the communist language. You are not going to appeal to him or win him over or somehow somehow win over the moderates. If you use the language, the communist has specifically chosen to deceive. He does this about everything. That's why he calls the illegal migrants. That's why he calls carving up a baby in its mother's womb, women's reproductive rights. Doesn't that sound so benign? What's the big deal? Women's reproductive rights. He chose these words on purpose and you are right to get angry at anyone quote on our side who uses these words. You are very, very right about that. And now you know what I'm going to do one or two more. Jesse, it cracks me up. You say every time you say crazy Aunt Peggy, it's liberal Aunt Peggy. I'm the only conservative in my family. Everyone else is a commie and they all think I'm the crazy one and this lady's name is Peggy. I love her. Hey, Jesse, since you love offending people in discussing sensitive topics, now hold on. I don't love offending people. That's a, that's a very common misconception. I just don't care if I offend people. There's a difference. I'm not trying to offend people. I, well, I take that back. I try to offend politicians because I really don't like them. What Chris, what? Do I take pleasure in offending people? I do. Sometimes if I'm being like, okay, now that I take pleasure in offending people because I'm trying to help them, Chris. No, why are you saying that? I'm serious. Listen, I take pleasure in offending people because if you're offended, that's a you problem. You have a sensitivity there or you care too much what other people say or what other people think and it's something you need to overcome. If you get offended, you need to consider, consider that a disability. You have a disability. You're disabled and you can overcome that disability as soon as you decide to stop being offended. So if I offend you, I'm not mad. And sometimes, if I dislike you, I'm actually thrilled about it. But no matter what, I'm trying to help. I don't try to offend people. All right, that is, that is not true. I don't try to offend people. Now, my nature is offensive. I understand that if you met my father, you would understand why. My, we're just an offensive family. That's, that's what we are. And now is a headline. Go, you know the thing. Headlines, we didn't get to you. Do you like NASCAR? This nonpartisan voter registration group doesn't want to help you. This is a story from the free beacon, the voter participation center. Yeah, you know, stuff that it's generally funded with your money. They try to do everything they can to make sure they exclude ever registering a Republican. Again, your tax dollars are used against you. Senior Hamas official encourages U.S. students to escalate anti-Israel protests on campus. The ability for these foreign terrorist groups to just operate on a U.S. soil floors me. We used to have an FBI, but I guess they're probably too busy not tracking down the DNC pipe bomber or the motive behind the Vegas shooter. This has been a podcast from WOR. Owning a rental property sounds like a dream until you realize how much work goes into getting it ready. 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