The Loyalty Podcast
Newscast 7: Can Starbucks return to Pike Place?
In this special segment, Rick Ferguson stands inside of Starbucks’ original Pike Place Market store in Seattle and asks: Can Starbucks leverage its loyalty program and its vaunted digital wizardry to recapture its corporate soul? Plus, we dive into research on Australian customer loyalty and chat with the VP of Marketing for Canada's Air Miles Reward Program.
- Duration:
- 38m
- Broadcast on:
- 08 Sep 2024
- Audio Format:
- mp3
(upbeat music) This loyalty newscast is brought to you by Niax Coinbridge, turning loyalty into currency instantly, spendable at any shop worldwide. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - This is the loyalty newscast for the week of September the 9th. I'm Katie Topping, hello and welcome. In this episode, we're on a whirlwind tour of royalty developments around the world, following in the steps of Howard Schultz in the US to deliver unsolicited advice for Starbucks new CEO, unveiling the latest research on Australian consumer attitudes towards loyalty programs. And finally, we'll be checking in on the recent brand Relaunch of the Air Mile reward program in Canada. Later on, we'll be bringing you a deep dive into the data behind Starbucks loyalty efforts, but first, Rick's standing by with the headlines making loyalty news this week. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) Thank you, Katie. Our whirlwind tour begins with these loyalty headlines for the week of September 9th. As we roll into the fall season, let's talk about consumer sentiment. According to the Wall Street Journal, things are looking up, sort of. A recent survey of 1,500 voters at the end of August found that 34% think the economy is improving, up from 26% in July. Thanks to falling mortgage rates, lower gas prices, and the booming stock market, but, and there's always a but. This was before Friday's job support hit and gave Wall Street the bapers. And not everyone is feeling these positive vibes. According to the conference board, low-income households are reporting a drop in consumer confidence. Meanwhile, middle and upper-income households are hitting the big box stores. Think Target, Walmart, looking for deals. And they're jumping into rewards programs. For example, commercial real estate services providers, CBRE, reveal that hotel program membership has grown 11% over the past year. Still, all those bargain hunters might face a reality check as program devaluations continue. Many of those same hotels are moving to dynamic pricing for room protections. Goodbye, fixed rates. The airlines have devalued their loyalty programs so much that the US government has launched an investigation into them, that even hurt Sony and Starbucks and join the list. But there is good news. New programs and partnerships are still cropping up. Tesla just rolled out a new referral program, built rewards, the company that's all about earning points on rent just teamed up with Walgreens to let customers earn on health-related purchases. In the UK, Royal Caribbean is teamed up with IAG loyalty to offer Avios points for frequent cruisers. And over in Germany, Hilton has partnered with Advansia Bank on a new co-branded credit card. And on the flip side, Disney is shutting down its long-running movie insider's program. As the book of Job says, loyalty programs giveth and loyalty programs take it away. And there you have it. Your loyalty headlines for the week, me. I'm off to burn through what's left in my points while they're still worth something. (upbeat music) - The first stop on our whirlwind loyalty tool finds Rick Ferguson standing on the corner of Pike Place in Seattle, Washington, contemplating the state of global coffee giant Starbucks. A recent spate of negative headlines, two quarters of declining sales, and the recent appointment of new CEO Brian Nickel has Rick wondering if Nickel will find a way not only to please Starbucks shareholders, but also to regain and grow Starbucks' legendary customer loyalty. Earlier this summer, I stood outside of the original Starbucks store in Seattle's world famous Pike Place market, and I thought about Howard Schultz. (upbeat music) Okay, it isn't actually the first Starbucks story. That went open in 1971 a few blocks away. But Starbucks Pike Place location is emblematic of everything that makes Starbucks great. It's brand promise, if you will. It's a classic third place, a term coined by sociologist Ray Oldenburg to describe the importance to society of gathering places outside of home and work. (people chattering) In the Pike Place location, friendly cashiers still write your name and order on your cup and toss them to the baristas. The store is filled with history from the original siren in the window to the original brass labels still attached to the bulk coffee bins. The store is always packed with a line perpetually out the door, filled with buzzing patrons, inextricably tied to the history of Seattle. It's a living, breathing part of the community and a wellspring of pride for the city. (upbeat music) Howard Schultz took the helm of Starbucks in 1985 and became the Ray Crock of his generation. He spread his Starbucksian vision around the country and then around the world. The company is in his bones. And even though he no longer runs it, he's still invested enough in its success that earlier this year, he posted on LinkedIn an open letter to the Starbucks board in which he decried the loss of the company's soul. What Starbucks has to offer, Schultz wrote, is not transactional. It's not contrived. It's authentic and it's experiential. It creates a sense of belonging with its people and a sense of community and humanity with its customers. Schultz wrote this letter. The Starbucks was suffering its first extended sales decline in a long time. The company has faced unionization efforts, declining employee satisfaction, inflationary price increases, reward program devaluation, social media backlash, all of this static led to the ouster the former CEO, Laxman Narissiman, and the hiring of former Chipotle CEO, Brian Nicole, to take the helm of the legendary company. Whether Nicole will heed Schultz's plea is an open question. But for Mike Ridgewell, founder of Denmark Street Marketing and the mastermind behind loyalty programs for Disney and Fandango, Schultz's words hit home. Mike describes himself as a lap Starbucks loyalist. - Here to me, I think in some ways lost the plot. I think also others have caught up, or even surpassed what Starbucks used to offer. So back in the day, what was great for Starbucks was the service, the quality espresso drink. So a destination to meet friends or be that that third space where you would go and work. But now I can go elsewhere and get better. I can get a better drink, I can get better ambiance, I can get better service. So that's really why I'm a lapsed loyalist. I will drive past the couple of Starbucks to get to peace, but I'll always make a beeline for a moment, part place. And because I can typically count on the service, the drink quality, the local pastries, merch that's sometimes more fun than to get that better ambiance. So really, when it comes to getting it back, I think particularly for those who have moved on, like me, you're asking me to listen to classic rock when climbs and tastes of change. But I would love to see them regain that throne. But they need to be more than an old friend that you bump into that has nothing to say. They need to really find that differentiator to stand out again. And that really starts with making it a pleasure to be there relative to other options. Now, I don't think there might be a silver bullet to that. But if there's one thing they should really start focusing on is the local store experience. You know, make that when the rubber meets the road and I walk into the store, the drink is great, the ambiance is great, and it makes it a pleasure to be actually experiencing the Starbucks brand. - Yeah, and you mentioned that concept of the third place. And I think it's important to highlight that, right? Because I have a personal example of that. So there was a Starbucks literally right next door to my house. I could walk 50 yards and I'm in Starbucks, right? And it wasn't, you know, the nicest Starbucks. You know, it was kind of small, but it did have the place to sit, work, get out of the home, have some business meetings, all those things that people loved about the Starbucks experience. And then last year, of course, they shut it down for three months and reopened it as a mobile only pickup spot, right? So they took that away. And I think they've done quite a bit of that. And it seems to me that maybe they're leaning so far into the digital, mobile, you know, everything's about efficiency, everything's about getting as many orders at the door as possible. And maybe they have lost that human connection through delivering that third space. Is that something that you see it's possible to maybe lean back into that? Or have you set up other spaces and other coffee companies kind of taken over that space? - Yes, I think they have. And I certainly appreciate that Starbucks is still a beloved brand. I mean, we have the same experience near us where, you know, they mean there are lines outside the drive-through all the time, you know? So I know they're certainly doing something right. You know, I think Starbucks certainly does have all the basics covered, you know? The reward program is good. It covers all the basics from reward in the currency. I earned, you know, customizing my drink, partnerships, you know, but what's really missing is that community. There's sometimes some of our local coffee shops. They're the ones that have a poetry reading or a local acoustic duo come in to do music. You know, they turn it into an event. They turn it into a destination. So it becomes more of a place for enjoyment rather than a place to refuel. And I think that's sometimes lost missing from the experience to me. - The good news is that Brian Nicole has inherited a culture of loyalty enablement that may still yet be tapped. The history of Starbucks Rewards reads like a history of reward program innovation. In 2011, they integrated the loyalty program with their mobile app. In 2012, they launched mobile payments. In 2013, personalized offers and recommendations. In 2015, mobile order and pay, in 2019, they ventured into loyalty partnerships and debuted Deep Brew, their AI-driven machine learning platform that drives their personalization engine. Now, that's an impressive track record by any measure. And if any company has poised to leverage its loyalty expertise to rediscover its soul, its Starbucks. Recently, I spoke with Peter Fader, Professor of Marketing at the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania. Peter cautions against the overreliance of digital solutions to very human business problems. - One example that I've been thinking a lot about lately 'cause I've been in the news a lot is Starbucks. So they're a company that's received a lot of kudos for being kind of digital forward. They were pioneers in the mobile ordering space, pioneers in digital mobile loyalty. So they've gotten a lot of credit for that. But it almost seems like they may have gotten away from the core value proposition that had their customers fall in love with them in the first place, right? It was the personalized experience of being able to have that third place where that's not work in school where they can go and enjoy some conversations, some coffee and they might have a personal relationship with the baristas and they've converted a lot of stores in a mobile ordering only, right? And I'm wondering if that is something that you've noticed brands kind of being all in on the digital front so strongly that they kind of lose that human connection that their customers are looking for? - No question about it. And Starbucks isn't the only one. It's still important to have balance. And yes, we want to be doing all the digital things and yes, we want to tag and track, but when that gets in the way of the real human experience, again, it might be a short-term fix. We might be able to squeeze more money out of the app for the loyalty program, but we might be harming the longer-run customer lifetime value, the real strength of those relationships. So Starbucks, I actually, I love the things that they started doing roughly 10 years ago and changing the loyalty program to make the awards better aligned with the actual value and interest of customers, the development of the mobile apps and so on. But no doubt that it maybe went a little bit too far with it. And let's put a bunch of digital techie geeks in charge of these things. It's going to lead to changes. - Back at Pike Place Market in Seattle, the baristas are still tossing cups and jawing with customers, happy to spend a little time and Ray Oldenburg's third place. The language of Schultz's open letter is evocative of this place, where tourists from around the world stop to experience a little of that Starbucks magic. The soul of the company lives within the walls of the store, the floorboards, the countertops, Schultz writes, and the ever-present aroma of our copy that will grab you by your heartstrings and not let go. To a corporate CEO, that may sound like Pablo, but at the end of the day, I'm with Schultz. To win back lapsed fans like Mike Ridgewell, Brian Nicole will have to combine the company's bonded digital wizardry with good old-fashioned human connections. Imagine that you are in the elevator with Starbucks new CEO. You've got five minutes with him. He's asked you for some advice. Mike, what should I do to really fine-tune my company's loyalty strategy? What's your five-minute pitch to him? - I love that question. My pitch would be to look to how to recapture the magic, to look for that differentiator, because I really do think that they need to redefine their strategy based on today, and that's gonna have to start with getting some answers. So start by visiting stores, lots of them. See what the customers are actually experiencing, and basically make sure that he's actually understood from everybody in these team down, so how they can actually customize the experience, because I think everybody in the organization has a role to play in the customer journey. I'd also do more formal customer research here, so what is the exact sentiment by segment and paying particular attention to the mid-reviews, 'cause that's often where the truth lies. I'd also make sure to do an internal assessment, and do they have the right people, talent, mindset, and tools in place to actually drill down and make change happen? And then I would certainly reassess loyalty with a new lens in terms of understanding that Starbucks has shifted to me as a commodity, then how to really give me program values that could drive true incrementality. The program's been around since 2009, right? So it's been around for a long time with not that many changes. So the bottom line is how to really use that data to really find that differentiator. So how could you be the place to go for vegan treats and drinks? How could you be the place to go for that must-have afternoon tea break with the best patrons and cakes? Where how could you make it the best place to work as that third space where the chairs and environment are way comfier than my Ikea desk at home, and the Wi-Fi is faster than the speed of thought? And how could it be the place to go where I'd have to open Shazam every five minutes to work out what's going on with that killer soundtrack behind me? Now, if they did that, then that could become my happy place, and I may just come back. (gentle music) In this week's edition of sponsor love, our spotlight on those companies who make this newscast possible, Ian Pringle and Coinbridge by Niax CEO, Guy Rosenhois, discuss the possibilities of the loyalty magic wand to solve the redemption issues of loyalty executives. So I'm going to share a little bit more with you. I'm going to share a little bit more with you. I'm going to share a little bit more with you. I'm going to share a little bit more with you. Of loyalty executives. As Guy tells us now, that wand would enable customer choice, business viability, and redemption flexibility. Hi, I'm joined today by Guy Rosenhois CEO of Coinbridge by Niax, sponsor of this episode of the loyalty newscast. So today I'd like to talk about loyalty managers, and if you were a loyalty manager and you wanted to wave and magic wand to solve all the problems, especially on redemption, what do you think a loyalty manager would wish for these days? Well, I think the first two things he'll wish for is A) allowing his customers to really enjoy freedom of choice, and that he won't have to work too hard in order to enable that, basically to swing his magic wand and basically allow his customers to spend and redeem anywhere, still under his control. That's the first thing he'd like. The second thing I think is to have a viable business model that he can actually attach to his loyalty program, because many loyalty programs do not make money. Up to the level that they actually are under the marketing department because they're actually losing money, and it's actually a marketing exercise. That's, by the way, in my view, the biggest mistake, because then they don't have enough funds to grow, they can't really innovate, they're confined within a certain paradigm, you know, marketing paradigm, and they're not self-sufficient. So I think he would wish to be able to be profitable and to have a good business model where the costs are low, and where the redemption is high, and where loyalty is high, and where new revenue streams are coming into the business because of the loyalty program, higher visitation frequencies, higher basket sizes. So the first one is availability of the program, and the second one is profitability and sustainability of the program. And what about waving a magic wand to make IT go away? Yeah, that's the first one. Solving all your IT problems and no integration costs, I mean, that must be a huge example. Well, we've done something similar. I mean, if you look at the cornbread solution, there's no need for IT integrations, no need for merchant integrations, no need for merchant settlement, extremely simple and easy user experience across the board, across all merchants, basically open the brand loyalty app and tap, and also extremely low on costs compared to integrating to each and every merchant, lengthy projects, high costs, especially if you want to use prepaid cards and all of that. That's like the new trend now, or at least in the last five or plus years, in loading rewards into gift cards and then which pair the costs, and then only then spending them damages user experience, damage, unit economics and business model and so on and so forth. Yeah, it's funny what you've said there about that, because we spend almost every culture that I know. If I was going to give a present to you guy, I would wrap it up and deliver a present. Yet in redemption and loyalty, we seem to be obsessed with not wrapping things up. In fact, if we wrap them up, we wrap them up in some kind of painful package, let alone something that makes it look an easy for customers. I agree, I mean, look at the current solutions, which in my view are legacy systems that exist in the last 15 to 20 years. If you want to redeem something, you need to read a code or to scan a bar code or to present a code to be a barcode or a QR code to be scanned, and you'll have different experiences with different merchants and so on. So it's wrapped in a really bad way. By the way, this is also something which changed. You just open the brand app. If you're using coin bridge, you open the brands app and you tap. That's it and which reminds you and resembles the Apple Pay or Google wallet experience, which you're already educated to because they've spent the last five, six years in educating you to do that and you're happy with that. So here you get a wrap, a very nice wrap of the package, add to it, freedom of choice, we can spend everywhere or anywhere the brands allows you, but it's definitely wider than what you have today and I think that's the ultimate package. So thank you, guy, who needs a magic wand when I've got her very own loyalty fairy godmother there, so thank you for joining us, guy. And thank you for being a sponsor of the podcast. Thank you. Thank you. It's a real pleasure. According to a recent report from World Coffee Portal, Starbucks has a 40% share of the US coffee shop market. That market has grown 8% in the last year and is now 4% higher than pre-pandemic levels. That robust share is due in no small part to the Starbucks rewards program. The program's origins stretch all the way back to 2001, with the introduction of the Starbucks reloadable debit card. Within eight months after that launch, the company saw 4 million cards activated. Today, the program boasts over 34 million 90 day active members, more than doubling in size since 2018. Here's a look at the program using good old-fashioned RFM metrics. In the recency KPI, 21% of Starbucks rewards members return within three days and 10% return within a single day. Starbucks has a customer retention rate of 44% surpassing the industry average of 25%. In the frequency category, 71% of Starbucks app users visit a store at least once a week, while the rewards program sees 2.5 billion annual transactions. And in the all-important monetary value metric, Starbucks rewards members account for 41% of US sales and spend 80% more per visit than non-members. Plus, the Starbucks app has been downloaded over 39 million times. And now that the company is opening the app to non-rewards members, we can expect that number to increase exponentially. And perhaps most importantly, despite sales declines, inflation-driven price increases, and program devaluation, the Starbucks rewards membership has grown like 13% year over year. So, as new CEO Brian Nicole takes the reins, Starbucks rewards remains a powerful tool in his toolbox. [Music] The next stop on our loyalty tour takes us to Australia for the latest edition of our Global Insight series. Adam Posner, CEO of The Point of Loyalty, reveals the latest news from the company's annual research report For Love or Money, a deep dive in to the loyalty habits and trends of Australian consumers. Adam describes how Australian loyalty programs are growing, thriving, and doing a bang-up job of enhancing the brand experience. This is Adam Posner from The Point of Loyalty here in Australia, and author of the annual research study For Love or Money. I've been asked by Ian to give a little snapshot of the latest insights from our 12th edition of the study. This has been going since 2013, asking Australian consumers what they think and feel about customer loyalty and loyalty programs. And this year, it's a packed research study. It's over 100 pages. There were nine sections covering a range of insights across strategy, structure, technology, data, personalization, and many other elements of the loyalty program. But what I'd like to share with you is a quick sneak peek on some insights. This first section, we covered the aspect of what is loyalty, outside of enrolling in a program. So what is loyalty to a brand? And we looked at a range of dimensions and asked consumers what they think loyalty is, and we defined loyalty from the research as three dimensions of behavior, belief, and belonging. Behavior is a transactional. Belief is about love and emotional connection, and belonging is about purpose, identified purpose of community, and consumers identified generically that brand loyalty is fundamentally transactional. But there is a 25% of them were about an emotional connection, and 15% were about belonging or identifying, but the balance was 60% were all about transactional. So that's the first insight. Then in terms of the landscape, we looked at memberships, and we looked at prompted and unprompted. So 4.3 was the average number of memberships that the consumers identified without a list. And then when we provided a list of 114 programs, that jumped to 9.4 as the number of memberships. So when you see a list, you suddenly realize, "Oh my goodness, I am a member of those programs." So that shows us about the clutter that's out there and the recall, but also activity was the other element we measured, and 50% of members are active in all of their programs. And so it's a sad reality. What about the other 50% and as loyalty program managers, what can we do to drive more activity? We then looked into the loyalty program experience index, which is a scoring or ranking, it's called the SPVX. Based on how simple a program is, personal and valuable, and 88 loyalty programs were scored and ranked, and the whole list is available in the research. Outside of that, we went into the brand experience. Does a loyalty program actually make an impact on the brand? Overall, an 80% of members said, "Yes, a great loyalty program enhances their experience with the brand." And that's jumped since 2018 when it was only 62%. So, loyalty programs are doing a great job to improve the brand experience. And then another section we looked at is the 21 friction points. We called them member frustrations. And while I'm not going to go through the results of 21, it is certainly a fascinating insight across members' view of what they're frustrated about with loyalty programs across 21 dimensions. And the number one, which is not surprising to those in loyalty program land, which is earn rate. How quickly is it possible to earn the rewards? And so, earn rate is a critical frustration point, depending on the category and the brand and the program. Then we looked into a lot of different areas, like subscription programs and the huge change and increase there, things like interaction through digital methods, card linking, gamification, exclusive events. Are they making a difference to program? And lots of insights in that area. One that I'd like to share further is the section on the six currencies loyalty program members care about. The six currencies were financial, experiential, functional, personal choice and social. And that whole framework is in our study. And yes, while financial benefits still rate at 60% of members all about that, what has grown significantly since last year is the choice currency. Give me a choice of a reward, whether it's through a catalog and or if it's like, for an example, a birthday. Don't just tell me that it's $5. Give me a choice, $5 or 50 points. And so much more, including loyalty, which Ian would know is a great passion point of mine and the financial feelings, as we call it. And finally, data collection, protection, trust and personalization. So much in this research study. Look forward to sharing more on Ian's podcast. Thank you very much. [Music] The final stop on our tour finds us in Toronto, Canada, where we'll wrap up our series on coalition loyalty with a look at the future of the air miles reward program. Long one of the largest loyalty coalitions in the world, air miles suffered a series of missteps and an exodus of key partners that led to the program's parent company to declare bankruptcy and sell the coalition to the bank of Montreal. This summer, air miles unleashed a brand relaunch centered on the concept of collect more moments. As air miles VP of marketing, Cat Carl Mussen tells us, helping collectors create connections, experiences and memories is key to revitalizing the air miles brand. Hi, Cat. Welcome to the loyalty newscast. Pleasure to have you here. Hi, Rick. So excited to be here. Thanks for having me. I, full disclosure, was once employed by the parent company of air miles, got to know air miles both inside and out. And it seemed to me that over the 30 plus years since its launch, it has become a ubiquitous part of Canadian life, right? It's like Canadian Tire, Tim Horton Coffee. And of course, the program went through some rocky times that led to the new ownership structure with Bank of Montreal. Fast-forwarding to today, what role does air miles today play in the life of its collectors? Yes. And you're right. We're the original loyalty program in Canada. We've been around for more than 30 years, and we do actually have a great relationship at scale with Canadians. We see that in brand health reports. We see it in our awareness. But what we're looking at right now and where we've ended up with a new brand platform is, to your point, there's been a lot of change. We doubled down on value. We invested in our collectors. We really evolved who we were as a program, all of which was grounded in consumer insight of how people shop, what they look for from loyalty programs, their expectations. And that was the right time or earlier this summer when we launched, felt like the right time to not just talk about the value and promotions and the currency of our program, but instead to really reframe who we are as a program and rebuild that emotional connection with Canadians that we've had over the years. In research, what we heard is loyalty is more than a transaction. And so people are craving what we call share of art. And so that emotional connection that somebody's watching out for them, that they're creating value and driving real value in their life beyond just a currency. You guys said earlier this year, launch the new Collect More Moments brand platform. It seemed to me that you are doubling down on that emotional connection. And it's much more than an earn and collect kind of a transaction that you're going for and doubling down on the emotional moments. Can you talk about some of the specific enhancements and benefits that you rolled out that are helping to drive that emotional connection? A couple of the critical launches that I think that collectors gravitate towards would be our receipts scan technology. So we launched this just over a year ago. And so collectors would download our app. They would look at a list of products that they can buy at any grocery store across Canada. They just go, they shop, like they normally would, and they come back with their receipt and they take a picture in our app. And the algorithm takes over, scans the receipt, and lets them know how many miles that they're earning. I think that's a really good example of evolutions to our program grounded in a consumer need. So if you think about the economic and financial pressure that people are under right now, probably more so than they've been in a while, there's a real reality that people aren't shopping the way that they used to shop. So myself included, I go to multiple grocery stores. And what this allows is flexibility in the way that you earn. We launched our card linked offers, which is if you link any Canadian issued master card to the program, you have the ability to learn, earn, sorry, at a variety of locations and partners across the country. It's a really challenging what a loyalty coalition program is and how it needs to evolve to meet Canadians' needs. So a lot of our competitive set is talking about just shop more, earn more. We actually flip the script and we lead with redemption. And we talk about all the ways that you can get value back, which means we have a commitment that we're delivering on to give people more ways that they can reward. Yeah, and that's a smart strategy, seems to me, right? Because to your point, a lot of programs lead with the earn here, earn there, collect, collect, collect. But as we know from psychological studies of loyalty, it's the anticipation leading up to redemption for a reward that creates the strongest attachment to the program. And by leading with redemption, reminding folks of how they can use these miles for experiences and all the other things that you hope to do with them. That seems like a strong way to care about charge the program and rebuild that emotional connection. Yeah, and I mean, when we talk to Canadians, there was a strong narrative that there's no loyalty left in loyalty. And I think part of it is exactly that. And what we also learned in research is that we have a lot of authority in Canada to own that space because of our heritage. So we have amazing collector stories of one example would be a woman that collects her miles to bring her son home from university every year. Or we have a woman who used her miles to send her husband on a bucket list item to see Tigerwood's life. That is exactly what loyalty programs were set up for. And I think over the years, the category has become very busy. There's a lot going on and it's just this increasing focus on earn, earn, earn that we saw the opportunity in the market to break through and be different. And our heritage over the last 30 years gives us permission to do it. The typical mechanics of the multi merchant coalition as it's existed in the air miles model has been one grosser anchor that you earn every time you go there. You don't really have to think about it. But it comes almost a passive experience. You're just earning while you're shopping at the grocery anchor. Now with the receipt, scanning, card linking to your point, there's a wider variety of places where you can earn and based on changing shopping habits, your collectors like that. And then with the receipt scanning, that's more of an active participation. So I would assume the fact that they have to make that extra step to scan the receipts to collect that almost enhances the engagement. Is that an accurate way to think about it? A hundred percent. And I think that's the biggest difference that has happened over the last several years across loyalty as a whole, that loyalty historically was much more passive in nature, right? You scanned a card, you don't think about it, but you continue to go back to do it. And there's definitely been a shift to active. So I do think that consumers are evolving and changing with that reality. I think something to me like receipt scan, though, helps break through and drive more engagement because it's so open and it's flexible in the way that it's designed. So instead of you have to be active, but you are locked into one store only from a loyalty standpoint, it gives the flexibility to shop the way that you already are shopping and get value back. So overall, the response since the launch of the Click More Moments that you've described that is enthusiastic, a lot of participation and activity. Yeah, I think on the metrics that we can tell this quickly right after it, we're seeing really positive initial signs. So things like social sentiment, just general like MPS score, we're seeing lift across those metrics. And so we've seen a lot of positive momentum and initial results from the program. [Music] And that brings us to the end of this week's Well Tour on the Loyalty Newscast. Please drop us a line and tell us how we're doing. You can contact us on LinkedIn and at loyaltywire.com. I'm Katie Topping and on behalf of Rick Ferguson and Ian Pringle. Thank you for listening. Until next time, do good work and stay in touch. [Music]