A Sober Girls Guide Podcast

Chloe Daniels: How to Manage Stress and Money in Sobriety

Chloe Daniels is here to help guide us to financial freedom. Chloe explains how her relationship with money, self-worth, and alcohol hit rock bottom and how she changed all three. She explains how all three are connected and intertwined; we can do better when we know better. In this episode you will learn why it is important for women to educate themselves and take control of their finances, great tips to generate more income, and the first steps every Sober Girl must take to achieve financial freedom.

Duration:: 57m
Broadcast on:: 06 Sep 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

(upbeat music) - Welcome to a Sober Girls Guide Podcast, a lifestyle podcast based on sobriety and recovery. I'm your host and sober girl, Jessica Jaboe. Inspired by my own sobriety and wellness journey, I want to spread the wealth of knowledge. Tune in each week for uncensored conversations about mental health, self-development, wellness and spirituality, and how they influence each guest's unique recovery journey. My goal is to educate and inspire and to let you know you are not alone on your recovery journey. Thanks so much for tuning in to a Sober Girls Guide Podcast. Let's go! Hello, hello and welcome to episode 279 of a Sober Girls Guide Podcast. Why is money and finance such a scary, daunting overwhelming concept? Well, Chloe Daniels is here to help guide us to financial freedom. Chloe explains how her relationship with money, self-worth and alcohol hit rock bottom and how she changed all three. She explains how all three are connected and intertwined and when you know better, you can do better. On this episode, you will learn why it's important for women to educate themselves and take control of their finances, great tips to generate more income, and the first steps every Sober Girl must take in order to achieve financial freedom. This is such a great episode. Let's get into it. Chloe, how are you? What is going on? I'm so excited to sit down and chat with you. This is a very touchy subject, especially for women. It's just scary. It is, it is, and I got it because it used to be something that I used to just bury my head in the sand about too, because I just thought I was bad with money and I had a serious belief that I kid you not. I literally believe that girls are just bad with money and boys are good with money for most of my life until my late 20s, so I'm really excited to dive into it. Isn't that the case, where we kind of like pass it off to the boys, you know, there's finance bros, there's a guy that'll take care of it, but money is freedom. Yeah, and money is energy. It's the ticket to what we want. Like, no matter whatever it is that we want, we have to have our money right in order to get there. And yeah, I think that as women, like the cards are often stacked against us. I hear so often, like, I think of one story with one of my students who was like, yeah, like, my dad would always talk to my brother about money, but he would never talk to me about money. And like, that's such a common story. Or, you know, we hear like, oh, you know, my husband just does that, or my boyfriend does that, or I don't need to learn about this because like, you know, so I'll find somebody to do it for me, essentially. Right, that's so interesting. So I want to get into the whole money aspect, talking about the nitty gritty, the stuff that we're nervous to talk about. But I also want to talk back it up a little bit and talk about, you're also a sober girl. - Yup. - And I wanted to talk about your before sobriety self, your BS self. Give us a sneak peek what BS Chloe was like. - Yeah, so I feel like I dabbled with sobriety for a long time before I actually committed to it. And for me, I learned, it was really 2020 that I feel like I had to have a serious look at my habits. And I realized I was in therapy at the time to try and lower my stress like that. I had specifically gone to a very specific type of therapist that was all focused on building skills around managing stress. And through that, I learned, and it was so obvious. Like I just had never really questioned it before. I only had two coping mechanisms when it came to managing stress. And that was drinking or eating a lot. And usually those two things were like in combination. And so realizing that those were my only coping mechanisms. And I have been a very chronically stressed person for a good portion of my life. I was like, oh, that's good. Like I should probably find some skills to improve. Now I had that kind of come to Jesus moment back in 2020, but I didn't change my habits with alcohol back then. I would try like sober months. I would try to cut back and things like that. But I almost feel like alcoholism was like very much normalized during the pandemic where it's just like, ah, it's three o'clock, you know? Like I'll start my wine in the evening. And I kind of wanted to that for a while. It wasn't until I took a road trip after I quit my job to do what I do now full time. Took a road trip around the country where I was essentially dating cities. I was trying to figure out where I wanted to live. And it sounds like such a dream. Like it was me, my dog, road tripping around the country, ultimate time freedom, you know, money wasn't an issue. And I was often ending the day on the couch with some wine watching Netflix. And so often I'd have this moment of like, this is not fulfillment. Like I'm not happy doing this. I'm actually kind of miserable and I'm lonely and like it's keeping me in the house. And so during that road trip, I decided to take like two months off of drinking and I wanted to stick to it, but I just, I fell off of it and I went back to drinking. But having that experience of being like, wow, I'm actually kind of miserable that this is like, this is something that's like impacting me all of the time. But it didn't, it wasn't until the end of 2022 where I had kind of been going back and forth and playing with taking months off of drinking. And I really, really loved the time frames where I wasn't drinking, but I'd fall back into it out of old habits. And it wasn't until Christmas, my family, we had done, it was like two years that we did this. We did a cocktail competition where it was like, okay, on Christmas Eve, we have these different like groups and each group's gonna make their own cocktail and it's like a competition. And I got so wasted that I essentially ruined Christmas for myself, I embarrassed myself. I felt like I had felt horrible the next day and I literally blacked out and it was horrible. And it's like, you know, family's rough in general. Like I have an amazing family, I love my family. But there's always stuff there. There's always like icky stuff, no matter how good your relationship goes with your family. And that comes out when I'm drinking. And I like insulted one of my brothers and I cried to my boyfriend at the time and I cried to my sister about all of these things that I had, I just had a sober conversation with somebody like it would have been an easier conversation to have. So it was Christmas morning that I was just like, I'm so upset with myself. I'm so upset that I, you know, ruined this holiday. I love Christmas too. And in that moment, I was like, you know what? I think I'm just going to try to take a year off from drinking. And so I started concocting this plan where in my head, it was just a trial thing. It was an experiment just to see how I was going to feel. January 1st was when I started. And I even at the time, I was like, all right, I'm not going to drink this whole year, except for these specific occasions. I was like, I can drink at my brother's wedding. I can drink on my birthday and I can drink on holidays. That's like the exceptions to the rules that I was giving myself. But by March, as my brother's wedding was approaching, I was like, I actually feel really anxious about the idea of drinking. And, yeah, because in my head gearing up for he had, it was an all expense, it was like those all inclusive resorts, which are literally just drinking hubs. Like that's what people go to for these things, especially in Mexico, at least in my experience. Totally. And I was like, oh God, it seems crazy for me to say I'm not going to drink on an all expenses, like our all inclusive resort when like the whole purpose, everybody is going to be drinking 24/7. But as I thought about breaking my streak, that made me feel really anxious because I was going to be around a bunch of people and I hated the idea of saying something that I didn't want to say, of waking up feeling hungover, because I hadn't been hungover in three months and my last hangover was on Christmas and that was horrible. And so the more I thought about it, I was like, the idea of doing this soberly sounds so much better. And the idea of just like being sober and waking up without a hangover, that just sounds so much better. And so in that moment, I was like, you know what? I think I'm just going to be sober. I think I'm just not going to drink alcohol. I think I'm just going to be done with it. And that's it. I gave up all my, I could drink on this occasion and I've been sober since January 1st, 2023. And it's been pretty easy, I would say. It was just the feelings and the benefits that I had from sobriety were just so much, so much better than drinking. And I feel like I have to shout out the book that kind of helped me solidify the fact that I wanted to stop drinking permanently was quite like a woman. I was like, I was like 90 pages into it and I've struggled with sleep my whole life. And once she started talking about the impacts of just having one drink, the impact that it can have on your sleep for three days, I was like, what am I doing? And the thing that I realized is like, as I continued on my sobriety journey, what I realized is like all these things that I used to do were just to numb what I was feeling and it was making me less present and it was making me enjoy things less. And it was supposed to be this thing that would elevate my experiences, but it never actually elevated my experiences. It actually took away from my experiences most of the time. I can't think of any experience that was actually improved by alcohol. And so I decided to just give it up permanently. - Wow, that is so cool. What kind of feelings, just being at your brother's wedding, saying it's an all-inclusive resort, I can understand the temptation there. Maybe feeling a little bit anxious about people and just kind of fitting in. Was there anyone being like, oh, why aren't you drinking? Was there any pushback? Was the reaction from your family or the guests? - Luckily, my family's been really, really supportive, especially when I just talk about the reasons why. My family and my friends have all been really supportive. There was some anxiety of just the desire to relax and be part of the experience that everybody else was having, but after my first day there, when I woke up not for the first time ever, I woke up in Mexico, not being hungover. And I was like, boy, I can go to the breakfast buffet and actually enjoy this experience. I can enjoy having breakfast by the sea. I can enjoy this. This is actually, and that took it all away. I was like, yeah, I'm good, I'm great. I don't need to, so after just that first day and being able to wake up not hungover, that helped so much. And when you tell people like, oh yeah, I don't drink, I think that's become a lot more normalized. Thankfully, I haven't had any pushback from it. And I don't know if it's just 'cause of the age that I'm at or how confidently I say it, or like, I would shut down, like to me, if even if somebody said anything to me, I'm like, that's way more about you than it's about me. And like, I've been on this journey now for a little bit over a year and a half. And you know, I don't think I've ever had anybody criticize me or question me for my decision. - Yeah, like he said, it says way more about that person than it does you and your choices. - Yeah, and I feel like, I don't know if your experience has been the same. I feel like almost every time that I talk about like, oh yeah, I don't drink anymore. Like I'm done, I'm sober, most of the time. - And then you throw it in the towel. - Yeah, most people are like, yeah, I've been thinking about cutting back on my drinking. Like that's almost always the response that I get is that people then talk to me about their drinking habits as if I'm like the judge of all drinkers now. And I'm like, I don't care what you do. You do whatever is best for you. I just know that this is what's best for me. And you know, some people can do it in a way that like is good for them, I guess. But for me, it was just like, I couldn't think of one thing that alcohol was doing to actually improve my life. - Oh, yeah, like I can't think of anything worse than waking up in such a beautiful atmosphere like Mexico and like not being at least baseline. - Yeah. - Right? 'Cause like when you're drinking, you are waking up below baseline, you kind of got to crawl yourself out of this hole, you know, with like a greasy breakfast or like a pair of the dog. And then you're kind of like a ball trying to throw itself throughout the day, come like evening, you just do it all over. - Yeah, do it again. - I can't even, no, not worth it. - Yeah, it's like that whole thing, that sounds anxiety provoking for me. - Yes. - And it's like those are the type of vacations that you come back from and you need another vacation because you're just like, I feel like, like I'm like, I would rather go somewhere where I leave coming back feeling better. And like, that's not gonna be reality for me. And even like my brother who got married and his wife, they're like, you know, I wish I had kind of taken it a little bit easier. So I could have enjoyed my like wedding a little bit more, but you know, it's one of those things where it's just so ingrained in our culture that it feels so bizarre to just say like, yeah, I'm done. I don't wanna do this anymore. Like this is not how I wanna live my life anymore. But then once you get out, 'cause how long have you been sober? - Seven and a half years. - Dang, that's amazing. So it's like, it's probably like-- - Oh, gee. - Yeah, that's amazing. - Thanks. - And it's like, you know, once, at least for my experience, I'm not sure if you've had the same experience. I'm assuming you probably have of like, you get out and you're like, were we all brainwashed? Like who decided that this was our go to like coping mechanism? Our go to think for everything, for celebrations, for sadness, for stress, for like just getting together, for relaxing, literally every opportunity that we have to do anything. That's what alcohol's for. It's like the most brilliant marketing campaign of all time. - Oh, we're working. - Working overtime, dude. - It's like, yeah. - It's crazy, you get out and you're kind of like, wow, I feel like I have been brainwashed. And like now I'm on the other side, I'm like, more people should try this. - Yes, but it's also like just blows my mind how actually people love to suffer. - Yeah, I mean, I was there too. - Yeah. And it's like, for me-- - Because suffering does offer things. - It does, yeah. - It does. - Well, it gives you the opportunity to opt out, you know? It gives you the opportunity to say like, well, today I'm not gonna do what I need to do or when I know I really want to do. I'm just gonna binge watch Netflix and order some mac and cheese, you know? It's like, it gives you the opportunity to just like take a break from all your obligations or all your goals, all your dreams and say like, well, I can't do that thing because I'm this. I'm hungover, I don't feel well. And I think that that when I decided, let me just try for a year just to see how it feels. It was actually from the perspective of like, yes, I want to feel better, I want to sleep better. But also like, what could I do in my business? What, how would things change in my business? How would, how like, think of all the time I spent hung over or drunk where I wasn't working or I wasn't like, even just getting a good night's sleep so I could be working at top notch the next day. It was almost from that, like that was a part of it. It was like, imagine what I could do if I didn't feel like crap, you know, 20% of the year. And 20% of the year is a significant portion, you know? - Yeah, it's a big chunk of the pie. - Yeah, so it's, I'm really grateful that I just decided to do it. And luckily now it's not, you know, I've done a lot of things sober now. I've, I would say actually this year has been the hardest to not, like, because my stress has increased this year, there were some issues that I didn't have in previous years but I also moved to cross country. Like some of the things that I've done, sober, is- - Moving at the big thing. - Moving across the country, dealing with toxic relationships, dating, dealing with breakups, dealing with family issues, dealing with like cutting people out of my life, dealing with being a business owner. I've only been in like a solo business owner for like three years now and that's, that's its own level of stress. And in the past, when I've been dealing with stress, I just, you know, have a beer or do something to just like numb the feeling for a little bit. So it's, there's been a lot of things that I've accomplished sober that I was never, like I never would have thought I could do. But now it's like, all right, well, we got through that, we can get through whatever's next. - Yeah, I mean, it's also like these things are going to happen. This is a part of life, right? Like as much as there are good things, there are like not so good things. Flips, and then flow of life. And like honestly, alcohol, it doesn't fix anything. It's literally putting a band-aid over a bullet hole. - But it makes it worse. That was like the big thing for me that I realized, especially in relation to stress. - Okay. - Is, and owning a business and things like that is after eating the quit, like a woman, I, in real understanding how alcohol impacted my sleep. One of the things that I realized that the cycle I was in is I'd be really stressed out. And so to heal, to treat, to cope, I would- - Yeah, to treat that word, treat, yeah. - Yeah, exactly, I would drink. And then drinking would lead me to order a bunch of food or order a bunch of takeout and eat with abandon. And then I would sleep like crap because of the alcohol and the overconsumption of food. And then I'd wake up tired and groggy. And that would just tenfold my stress because I didn't have the energy or clarity or focus to do what I needed to do. And so it's just this constant cycle where I could never actually get ahead and it was making the problem worse. Whereas instead, if I just feel the uncomfortable feeling, I acknowledge it, or I do something that actually helps the stress, like that's actually improving it versus like just making the problem worse and digging myself into a deeper and deeper hole. So what are you doing now to cope with the stress or make it a little bit more tolerable? - So a lot of things. I have, this is gonna sound very corporate of me, but learning better time management skills has been huge for me. And really only allowing myself to, when I'm working, to focus on that actual task at hand rather than like multitasking, multitasking stresses me out so much because we can't do it. It's not possible. - It doesn't exist. - It doesn't exist. - So we just like right here, right now, let's just put it in stone. I firmly believe that multitasking does not exist. If you want anything done correctly, something that you're gonna be proud of, that you can like stamp off and hand off, this episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. It's 2024, we are all stressed out. The worst thing we can do is keep all this stress bottled up. Our bodies and minds turn into a pressure cooker and that is not good for anyone. In my seven years of sobriety, I learned that I need to let it out. It only hurts me and the people around me if I don't let my guard down and have a safe space so I can unpack my worries. Therapy is a safe space I can get things off my chest. And to figure out how to work through whatever is weighing me down. I always feel so much lighter. Instead of blowing up at people or situations that do not deserve it, therapy has helped me build my self-awareness, mindfulness and slow down and help me process what I'm actually feeling in the situation. Therapy has helped me learn positive coping skills and how to set boundaries and I know it empowers me to be the best version of myself. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give better help a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire and get matched with a licensed therapist and not to worry, you can switch therapists at any time for no additional charge. Get it off your chest. You will feel so much lighter with better help. Visit betterhelp.com/ASGG today to get 10% off your first month. That's better h-e-l-p dot com slash a-s-g-g. - You can't do it. - You can't do it. - Mounted asking. - Well, and that's the thing, that's been the biggest thing too is like really managing my phone. Because as a content creator and somebody who could literally run her phone from or run her business from her phone, it's so easy to just check notifications and check what's happening and check all of these things. But like I'm taking away from the attention and focus that I have on something that's more important to then check my phone. And if I'm checking my phone every 10, 20 minutes, there's been studies that are shown just by tasks switching. It takes you 20 minutes to get back into the tasks that you were starting with. And so like the amount of time that's wasted, I still struggle, like it's still something that I'm working on. But the amount of time that it takes to get back in, like you're wasting so much time simply by just checking your phone. And then what I've also noticed is like, because I've given up alcohol and I'm not numbing all of these feelings, I, when I check my phone, or on my phone too often, like my body temperature rises. I get more stressed out. I feel more like, like just like on edge. So for me, when I'm starting to notice a lot of anxiety or a lot of stress, I also need to look at like, well, how much time are you spending on your phone? Because that's been a huge thing for me is learning how to manage that. And the phone is like an addiction, just like drinking alcohol is an addiction. It's these little hits of dopamine that you're constantly checking over and over again. So that's been a big one prioritizing my sleep. My vision board this year was literally all about my sleep because I've been a terrible sleeper my whole life. I'm still not a great sleeper, but like I have implemented routines. I've done things to just like work on improving the quality of my sleep because sleep is tried, like it's tied to everything. My health, my stress levels, my ability to focus all of those things. And I'm definitely less stressed when I'm not tired all the time. And yeah, I know, I also got into jujitsu this year and jujitsu, it's been an amazing stress relief when I'm not injured and can actually do it. So how many about that? How did you get into that? I got into it when I moved to San Diego. So I moved to San Diego about a year and a half ago, well, a little over a year ago. And once I moved here, I had no idea that San Diego is like a huge jujitsu hub. But yeah, I know, right? Who knew? And at the time, I was dating somebody who I would go out and solo hikes all the time and he'd be like, I really don't like you going on these solo hikes like all by yourself. You need something to protect yourself. And I was like, well, I'm not gonna get a gun. So what do you, what's your recommendation? And he was like, you know, you should learn some type of self defense. And I was like, all right, I'm down to try that. And he recommended jujitsu. And so I joined a jujitsu gym and I fell in love from that very first class. I became obsessed with it. I even competed last year. All right, I guess this year actually-- No way. Yeah, yeah, I didn't win, but I did a good job. And it's one of the biggest bringers of joy. It brings me community. It helps with my stress. Like finding a physical activity that I love to do has been such a game changer for my stress. So that's been a big thing. It's also just like building my life outside of the business. I think I used to tie my identity a little bit too much to what I do for a living. And trying to balance it out has been really helpful for me. Yeah, adding a couple like other pieces of the pie in there. You know, a couple other slices. It's like more legs to the stool, you know? So that I don't just tip over any time something gets cut off. So yeah, it's not perfect. I'm not perfect at managing my stress, but it's definitely a better place where it is than where it used to be. And I have found ways to actually manage it rather than just numb it, you know? Yeah. So easy to just numb it that feels like the easy button, but it's actually-- but let me make this worse button. Totally. I think it sounds like from what you just explained and kind of round us through, it sounds like you're more on the preventative side too. Oh, yeah. It's not just like, oh, what stress is here? Like, how did you get here? Yeah, well, because we know it's coming. Exactly. Because it's like, I know what causes stress. And like, if I don't-- if I don't get ahead of it, then I know I'm going to end up, like, a perfect example is-- I was just-- I was out for the last 10 days. And I got back this week. And I have like three days in the office. And then I have-- we leave again to go see my boyfriend's family. And that stresses me out being like, I only have three days. And I don't have like a weekend to myself. So it's like the simple act of like, OK, I'm going to take tonight to myself to do whatever I want or whatever I need to do. Because once I try to squeeze too many things, and it's like, you know, you have to be proactive about it. Because once you're stressed, that's the hardest time to manage the stress is when you're already in it. But there's some things that I do for that too. I mean, jujitsu still helps. Like, when I'm really stressed, I leave jujitsu as if I like-- I took a Xanax or something. Like, it's very calming. And like, doing hard things, you know? I think it makes other things a lot easier. So anyway. Oh, totally. Stretching the mindset, like getting yourself into those like uncomfortable, new, very unfamiliar settings, I think is only going to build your capacity for more stress and for like, you know, to work through it easier. Mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly. It's like, well, you know, when something's-- like, when you have like a crazy dead light or something, it's like, well, at least they're not trying to choke me. You know, at least I'm not popping my knee or something. True, true. Speaking of deadlines, tell me how you got into being a money coach and talking and helping educate women with their financial situations. So I got into this space by being bad with money. So I had spent most of my life identifying as somebody who was just bad with money. I truly thought that girls were bad with money and boys were good with money because my brothers were always really good at saving money. And I, from the minute I first started getting an allowance or birthday money or things like that, it would just run a hole through my pocket. I would spend it immediately. And it was even like a running joke in my family. I was like, oh, money burns a hole in Chloe's pocket. And so I just believed that. From the time I was like less than 10 years old. And I held on to that belief, never really questioning it until I was in my late 20s. And I was like, Chloe, this belief that like girls are bad with money and boys are good with it. Like it's objectively not true. Like it's a skill that you can learn. But it had to take me essentially getting to my rock bottom to finally decide to just try to learn. Because I had this belief that boys are good with money and girls are bad with money, I thought that the solution to any of my money issues and security and feeling safe and ever not struggling anymore was just to eventually hope that the person that I partnered up with was going to be good with money and just hope that if I ever had a boyfriend or a partner or a husband who was in my life long term, like I would just hope that they were good with money. And unfortunately, being in this position where like, I wasn't going to take ownership of my own finances. It put me into a lot of really bad situations with bad people where I like, for example, when I taught English in China. Okay, way back in the day. And it was actually Wuhan before everybody knew what Wuhan was. And I got engaged to somebody who I couldn't see how controlling they were because all the things he wanted to control were things that I was like, yeah, I need help on that. I'm not good at this. So he'll be the one who can do this. And unfortunately, once we got engaged, I started to see behind the veil and realize like, oh crap. I love how scents have the power to evoke memories and transport you back in time. Like instead of sitting at your desk, you are whisked back to laying on the beach during your favorite vacation. Ocea's Andaria algae body oil smells like a vacation in a bottle with all natural uplifting notes of mango, mandarin, grapefruit, lime and cypress. Not only does it smell incredible, but this body oil is clinically proven to instantly improve skin elasticity and deeply moisturize, leaving skin silky and soft. It's giving post-vacation glow like you just returned from a tropical getaway. And right now you can get 10% off your first order with our code ASGG at oceamalibu.com. My skin has never looked better. Ocea's Andaria algae body oil gives me the instant firming hydration and a full body glow I've been looking for. And let's be honest, I love getting premium skincare products at such an incredible value. Get healthy glowing skin for summer with clean vegan skin and body care from Ocea. Get 10% off your first order site-wide with code ASGG at oceamalibu.com. You'll get free samples with every order and free shipping on orders over $60. Head to oceamalibu.com and use code ASGG for 10% off. - My life was actually in danger. And there were things that they just escalated to the point where I just kept giving him control over everything and eventually it got to the point where I not only needed to get out of the relationship for my own safety, I also needed to leave the country. But it was a bad, bad situation. And it was in my early 20s and it was at a time where my parents were going through a lot with the great recession of like 2008, 2012. And so I felt so much shame about the situation that I had put myself in that I was like, well, I don't have the money to leave. And I, you know, I'm just gonna stay. I'm gonna stay until I have enough money saved up to leave. But I never wanted my parents to know how bad things were. I never wanted them to know that I was in danger. I never wanted them to know that I, you know, had essentially what I felt like was I had screwed up. And unfortunately, the trauma of that experience, once I finally was able to move, I moved to Chicago, it's not like that trauma results just by hopping on a plane. - Totally. - One thing I think a lot of people, unless they've been in an abusive relationship, don't realize is that the way that it completely erodes any trust in yourself that you have. And I had already not really trusted myself because I believe like, oh, I'm not good at this. I can't do this. Somebody else has to do it for me. But then finding myself in an abusive relationship and I didn't even realize it was an abusive relationship until I got out, I was terrified of my own decision-making. I was like, I literally got myself in a situation where I could have been killed. And I didn't even know that I was in danger. I didn't even think I was in an abusive relationship. And so any, you know, any level of trust that I had for myself was obliterated. And so I instead of, you know, you think you'd go through that experience and be like, oh, never again, won't do that again. I kind of doubled down on this idea that I need somebody else to swoop in and save me. I need somebody else to make better decisions. I really, really got to like find my person and make sure that, you know, I don't find myself in this situation again. And so unfortunately, like doing that over and over again, I ended up just repeating the pattern over and over again. I was never as bad as it was that time, but you know, there were times where I was forced to live with an abusive partner because I didn't have money to leave. There were times when like I have a partner use my credit card and like I go into credit card debt because of them. And so it wasn't until the end of 2018 that I like looked around and was like, all right, Chloe, you're the common denominator here. Like we've tried this whole, let's find somebody else to do it for, you know, almost a decade now. What if, hear me out? What if we just tried to do it ourselves? What if we decided to be our own savior? And, you know, be your own savior. Yeah. And it's, you know, it's so against what, you know, Disney tells us our whole lives growing up is that, you know, you just gotta find your prince and shining armor. And I was like, well, I think I need to try and figure out how to be that prince and shining armor for myself. And so the mantra that I use was always and still use is dumber people than you have figured it out before. Dumber people than you have gotten through this before. And so I started going to therapy. I started, you know, figuring out myself, but I also started learning about money because all of the bad stuff that had happened to me, it wouldn't have happened if I had had the money to make my own decisions and the options to leave. And, you know, my shame prevented me from asking for help. So if I had had that money, if I had had those options, I would have been in a better position. And so I kind of became obsessed with money after that. I just saw it as this ticket to the freedom and the control and the security that I wanted. And as I started learning, I am making changes and just feeling better with it. 'Cause it's like, you know, you feel better every step of the way. And I just got to this point where I was like, holy shit, I want everybody to feel this. Like this feels so good. And yet there's so much information online and it's so confusing and some of it's so freaking boring and it never felt like it was talking to me. So I decided to start creating content about it. So it was just kind of like one little step led me into the next place. And I never, I never thought, you know, if you had told me five years ago that this would be what I'm doing now. And well, I guess that was fine. It's 10 years ago, if you had told me that, I would have been like, who me? Like I'm bad with money. I can't teach people how to do money. But it's-- - Man, it just boys. - Yeah, that means for boys, not for girls, you know? So now it's really nice to be in a place where I do know a lot about finances. My finances are very secure. I did that for myself by myself and now I'm helping other people do the same. And majority, I'm working with women. Every once in a while we get some men inside of the lazy community and I'm always like happy to have you here. - Love it. - But yeah, it just, it was just one thing led to another and I feel like I've got the best job in the world, you know, being able to help people in such, like changing my relationship with money was the best thing I ever did for myself. And so to help other people do that for themselves too is pretty cool. - Yeah, I think one thing that I really love and stands out about your content, because a lot of the content around money, just like, you know, from banks and even our parents, right, is all fear-based. - Yeah, that's so true. - It's all fear-based like, oh, you gotta say for a rainy day, like don't invest in this. Like, you could just lose it all, you know? Like, that is like the worst-case scenario and it's like, you're-- - What do I do? - Yeah, it's like, it's right. So like, what do I do? Like, what can I do? Where do I even start? - Yeah. - And I think your content has made it very, very digestible, very easy to access, 'cause you're very relatable. Like you said, you've been there, you've done this, you've bought the t-shirt, you know? And to help other women feel this empowerment, you know? To take it back, to take back this autonomy, you know, to not rely on someone else. You know, even a banker or even like your parents doesn't even need, had to be a spouse, like-- - Right. Knowledge is power. - And that's what, like, as you mentioned, so much of the content out there is fear-based. - Yeah. - Because it's 'cause the financial industry benefits from people being afraid of thinking that they can't do it themselves, of thinking that it's above them, of thinking that it's this risky thing. When in reality, there's just a lot of jargon you gotta work your way through. And then the principles of investing and the action of investing, it's so simple once you start breaking it down. And then when it comes to money management and things like that, it's all about learning a system that works for you. Everybody is different. Everybody's got different beliefs. Everybody's got different obstacles. And so there's a million different ways that you can do it. That's why personal finance is so personal. But it's so easy for people to do the fear message because that's what it sells. That's what gets people to work with you as a financial advisor. That's what gets people into your web, essentially. And it's what I try to do is, yes, of course, I want people to understand it is urgent. Like, yes, we need you to get started as soon as possible because I promise you, whether you start now or you start in five years, you're gonna wish you had started sooner. Like, that's every single one of us. And like, you're gonna wish you started sooner. Exactly. And so it's like, yes, I always want to encourage people to take action. And like, sometimes that requires some urgency. Sometimes that requires some like real numbers where you're like, hey, if you don't start now and you wait 10 years, here's what the difference could be. But it's also about like, you can do this. This is not above you. Dumber people than you have figured it out. And it's not as complicated. It's not as boring as you think it is. But it's like, if you want to live your life on your terms, whatever those terms look like, whatever it is that you want to do, you got to do this stuff. You got to learn how to money because your money, it controls your life, unfortunately, whether you have it or you don't. Yeah. I mean, we can't, listen, we can't pay our mortgages and rent and meatballs. Yeah, unfortunately, (laughs) not how it works. So if you could, like, anyone listening right now, right? Like, they're probably just starting, maybe, like, starting to save money or looking to do something with their money, right? What are some, like, tips and tricks that you could, like, implement right now? Or what is something that people should be doing just out the gate? Yeah, so my very first step that I took and one that I recommend for everyone is, and it's the stuff that everybody wants to skip, is just take, like, if you're starting from ground zero and you're like, I don't litter, I have no idea what to do. Just take the next two weeks or four weeks if you want extra credit and just track what you spend. That's it, like, you don't have to do anything. Literally grab a notebook and write every, like, keep a tiny little notebook and write down every single time you spend money or keep a notes app and write down every time you spend money or, you know, I don't love the budgeting apps because I think it takes away from the mindfulness piece. So, like, do something that requires you to stop and look at what you're spending money on. - Oh, okay. - Because here's the thing. We want to switch from, I'm not paying attention to my money or I'm burying my head in the sand around money because I'm afraid of it to, this is a tool and I can have, I can learn how to use this tool. It is not this, like, nebulous thing that I have no control over and I'm not sure how it works. It's actually just a tool and you get to decide what to do with it and that starts with taking the mindfulness piece into equation. That's why I'm like, I'm not a big, I'm not a big budgeting app person for new, new money people because there's no mindfulness. It's gonna track things for you. Sometimes it feels more overwhelming 'cause it miss tracks thing. You gotta go in and deal with the tech. So, it's like, let's make it as simple as possible for you. Literally, just write down what you spent your money on for that day. Then, at the end of that two weeks or the end of the four weeks, depending on how long you do it, that you can go in and start categorizing things and look at like, okay, where did my money actually go these last two weeks, these last four days? And you're gonna see a baseline of where your money is actually going. So many of us think we know where our money is going. It's like, oh yeah, my money just goes to rent and my student loans and maybe a little bit of eating out. But then when you actually sit down and look, often what I find is people are grossly underestimating what they spend in certain categories. And the beauty of that is if you're not happy with that, if you look at that and you're like, ooh, that doesn't feel good, you have the opportunity now to change it. You get to realize like, wait, there is money here. There are resources available. I'm just not spending it on the things that I really care about, what I really want to be spending my money on. And so, it's really, it's that mindfulness piece of like this shift. 'Cause for me, when I first did that, 'cause I didn't know where to begin, I was like, I have no idea. You know, I think I know where my money is going. I don't really know for sure though. I did that, I only did it for two weeks. And by the end of the two weeks, I was blown away with my spending. I was like, I keep saying that I don't have the money to go visit my friend in Germany or I can't, you know, save an emergency fund 'cause they don't make this or I can't start investing because of this. And then I look at my spending and I realize at the time, this relating back to sobriety, at the time that I did this, in two weeks, I had spent over $600 just on eating out or being drunk. That's it. Yeah, yeah, I'm not even kidding you. - That is a plane ticket. - That is a plane ticket. That's a good start to an emergency fund. That's, you know, that's money invested. And I was disgusted. And it's like, it's one of those things like, like sometimes we need a dose of tough love and to look at ourselves and be like, I've just been making excuses. And for me, it was powerful because if you had asked me at the time what I valued, there's no way in hell I would have said, I value being drunk and eating out. Like that's not my top values. - Right. - What I would have said was I value freedom, I value flexibility, I value travel. But my bank account was not showing me that. My bank account was showing me that I really love being drunk. And like, and here's the thing, we know how expensive it is to be drunk. We know it's not only the drinks you're paying for, but it's the oovers and it's the food that you door-dash that night and it's the food you door-dash the next morning when you're too hungry over to do anything. And so $600 and it was just kind of like, wow, it's not like, I wasn't making crazy amounts of money at the time. I think I was making like 70K a year at the time. And so it was just like, wow, here I am thinking I have nothing and yet I do. I just am making different decisions. And so that, I think it's a really powerful activity for people because it's just kind of a slap of reality. Now here's the other thing. Maybe you will discover, oh, I'm actually really happy with the way that I spent my money in these last two to four weeks. But they're still not enough. There's still not enough here for me to save an emergency fund, to pay off my debt, to start investing. So then you know, okay, it's not a spending issue. It's an income issue. And then you know right away, number one priority needs to be learning how to increase your income. So that's what I think is like one of the biggest and most important things that people need to do at the beginning of their journey because it's gonna just give you data to understand what's next and what do you need to do now. - Yeah, I mean, how can you make more money? Like how like... - Yeah, I love talking about more money. So if you get to the point where you're like, I went through my spending and that's the thing. You have to actually do it because a lot of us think that we're spending in ways that are aligned with our values and we don't. So if you've done that and you realize, yeah, no, I really need to make more money. Okay, cool. Well, there's lots of different ways to make more money. My favorite is to first focus on how do I increase my income at my nine to five job? When's the last time I asked for a promotion? Do I know if I'm on track for another promotion? Do I know if I'm on track for getting this percentage of raise and the best way to do that is to be proactive about it. So many people, especially women, do this. Do the opposite of what you're supposed to do. You wait until the annual review and then you just cross your fingers and you hope that somebody's noticed the good work that you've put in and they're just gonna offer you a great raise or they're gonna offer you a promotion. And that is not how we wanna be doing it. We want to be talking to our boss. We wanna be talking to the person who's in charge of our promotions and our salary all year long. Whether that's happened, if the first conversation's happening in the annual review, I can promise you, you're not gonna get that promotion until maybe the next review a year from now. So it's like, you've gotta be having that conversation all year long. For me, that happened when I was in the interview process. It's like, I wanna be growing. I'm not gonna be staying at this. My very first job was a development assistant. I was like, I'm not gonna stand on the development assistant for long. I wanna be moving up. And so, every single one-on-one conversation that I had or every other one-on-one conversation that I had with my boss was talking about, all right, here's what I've accomplished. Here's where I'd like to be taking my career. Here's where I'd like to be next. Am I on track? What else can I be doing? Here's what I think I can be doing. But like, is this aligned with what you see? Is this aligned with what you think I need to be working on in order to justify giving me a promotion next year or in next six months, whatever it is? By the time the annual review happens, that should be such an easy conversation where you're coming to the table, having talked about it for a year or six months to a year with all the data points on why you're now ready for this new position. So, I think that's a huge one is a lot of us don't recognize that there's often earning potential and untapped earning potential just at our nine to five. I get it, it doesn't apply to everybody. I know it's harder as a teacher. I know it's harder as a nurse, but if you're not in those kinds of positions, if you're in standard corporate America, then these are the conversations that need to be happening all year long. And if you understand like after a year, you've done this and they are not promoting you and they are not even giving you a time frame on when they think that that's going to happen, then you need to start looking for an organization that's going to prioritize your growth. So that's my first option is like, look at the opportunities within your job now to see, is there an opportunity here for me to make more money? Most of the time there is. - Cool. - If there isn't, then you've got to look at, okay, what are my other options? Is it because I need to gain some new skills? Well, then I need to start looking at, well, where do I want to gain new skills? Where do I want to go here and how can I get those? And then can I get work to pay for that? Always check to see if they'll be willing to pay for a new course or something that you could justify. Most places have some kind of professional development budget. Then after up loving those skills and if it's still not working, you're still not getting those jobs, the other option if you're like, I need to make more money now, not in six months, not in a year. It's okay, is there a skill that I have that I could start a side hustle, that I could start a business on the side? The highest paying side hustles are consulting. If there is a skill that you have, if you are a project manager, can you do project management for this small local company? Is there's, if you are a writer, can you start freelance writing? If you are, like for me, there's so many side hustles that I've done. And obviously money coaching was the one that worked out for me and turned into a full-time business. But before that, I was doing translation work. I studied English and Spanish in college. So I'd take on translation work. I would help people with their social media. I would... Gosh, what else? I'd work on people's websites. Like there were so many things that I tried out and sometimes you just got to try out a bunch of different things before you land on the thing that works for you. But the best paying is what is something you already do that you do well, that you can help somebody else, whether through coaching or consulting. Totally. I don't even, even, like hearing this, like I can totally see the benefits to working with you or any kind of coach because you're like, you're coming up, you're throwing ideas out there that maybe people haven't even thought of or even like, it's not even in your hemisphere. Yeah, you don't know what you don't know. And you don't know, like what I always tell people to is like, I could talk about increasing income all day. I love talking about increasing income because there's so many ways to do it. And there's so many mental barriers that women specifically have around making more money that I'm always just like, not like, let's talk about this because I had a mentor who was a man who was very, very much my advocate at the beginning of my career. And he's still a friend to this day. But when I interviewed for my job, I was looking for that. I was very specifically looking at somebody who could help guide me in my career because that's what I wanted. That was the kind of relationship that I want. And that happens in the interview process when they say you're not just being interviewed, you are also interviewing these companies, you're also interviewing your boss. And so so often people are like, oh, well, you just got lucky. It's like, no, no, no, that was strategic. Like I did that on purpose. And that's why I was able to skyrocket my career so quickly. But it's, again, you don't know what you don't know. And that's why I'm such a huge advocate of also getting a mentor. Because a mentor can come in so many different forms, but you don't know what you don't know. And trying to build a career by yourself, that's gonna be so much harder. And so I'm a huge advocate of that because whether that's through a coach, there's tons of career coaches and things like out there, but you don't have to pay for a mentor. You can find a mentor in somebody that you work with or somebody who's in the industry or somebody who you've been connected to through somebody else. There's tons of ways to find mentors. - We're just someone who's in a position that you maybe want. - Exactly. - No, like I had many-- - I have some shadow of them, soak it up. - And here's the thing that I always tell people. It's like people love to talk about themselves. - Yeah. - Love to talk about themselves. So it's like, if you meet somebody, like go to the networking events, if you connect with somebody at a networking event, ask them to go for coffee sometimes. And if they're not down for coffee, ask if they'd be willing to hop onto a call for 20 minutes or something. Most people are good people and they wanna help and they wanna pay a foreign. And if all you're doing is asking them to talk about themselves, most people will be happy to do that. - Done. (laughing) - Done and done. Speaking of mentors and inspiration, like who are your money mentors? Like-- - Mm-hmm. I'm not even-- - It's like old school. Like Susie Orman-- - No. (laughing) - No. - I love the sous. - Yeah, Susan's great. She's not somebody I ever went to. I just didn't resonate with the way she taught. - Yeah. - I was more, like I liked other millennials. - Okay. - Just because I resonated with her stories. The first, this is not a millennial. The first book that ever like transformed how I viewed money and rich people was The Millionaire Next Door by Thomas Stanley. - Oh. - I needed that wake-up call to be like, what you think wealth is, what you think the rich are doing, it's not what you think. Like the key to building wealth, the key to being rich, is not spending everything that you make. It's not up leveling your lifestyle. It's not doing all of that. It is living on less than what you make. Period in a story. That is the first step to building wealth. You have to live on less than what you make because you need the difference between what you make and the difference between what you spend, you need that to start building wealth. Like building wealth doesn't happen just because you have a high salary. If you spend all of your money, you're never gonna build wealth. So-- - Sure. - Having that, it sounds so simple, but like for me, it was, I didn't realize how deep the definition of wealth was to me was like the flashiness and the fancy vacations and things like that. It was like, no, no, no, you have to keep your money in order to build wealth. And like, yes, those things absolutely can be part of it, but you gotta have the foundations first. You can't be living your rich life before you've reached it. So that was-- - Yeah, don't live it for the gram, like-- - Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's a huge part of it too. And it's like, I am never gonna tell somebody to put their dream life on hold until they're wealthy. Like, you can do both, but it's about doing it within your means and doing it within reason and doing it with intention. So the millionaire next door had a, was a huge perspective shift for me back in the day when I first started getting into this space. Now there's so many great books by women specifically that I love to shout out. Like my friend Melissa, millennial and debt she has. So this is why I'm broke and Melissa's hilarious. So I have, I've got her book, I've started working my way through it. It's an amazing read and it's so light-hearted that I think it's a lot more accessible. And one of the blogs, which is free, that really impacted me was a blog called Millennial Revolution. And it's about this couple actually in Canada who they had both tech jobs and they started saving like 50% of their income. And I was like, that's insane. I was like, who is doing that? - Yeah, especially in Canada. - And they were in, I think they were in Toronto which is super expensive. - That's expensive, yep. - Yeah. And they basically completely changed their lives by trying to live off of one salary instead so that they could save the other salary. And then they quit their jobs and they traveled the world full time. And I was so jealous of them. Yeah, I was so jealous of them. I was like, who could do this? Like, this is unrealistic, but like I kept reading and I kept watching. And I was like, well, clearly I want to do this. And so again, that mantra of dumber people than you have figured this out before, why can't you at least try? Because what if you can't quit your job to travel full time? But what if you could take more time off? What if you could do more travel? What if you could land somewhere closer to where you want to be? So that was Millennial Revolution. They have a great blog. I don't know if they're still writing because again, this was like, gosh, 2018 was six years ago, which is crazy. So yeah, that was a great, there was tons of free resources out there that I really enjoyed. - I love that. And where Chloe can people find you on the World Wide Web? - I'm most active on Instagram. So if you find me at Klobear Money Coach, bear is spelled B-A-R-E. That is where I'm posting daily. And we've got a free money guide where a lot of the resources that I use to get to where I am now and a lot of the resources that I recommend are in this free guide at moneywrightguide.com. And then we also have a free investing class every single month that you can get at lazyinvestingclass.com. - I love that. And they're free, like lots of goodies. - You've got to get in there. Why not? Chloe, thank you so, so much for spending time with us sharing your experience and your knowledge with us. This has been so educational and just really, really fantastic. And I can't wait to take control of my finances. - Hey guys, it's been so nice just meeting you and chatting with you. And thank you so much for having me on this platform. - Wait a second, do not leave just yet before you go. It is important to remember that everyone's experience changing their relationship with alcohol is different. However, one thing that remains consistent is the need for support. Head to assobergirlsguide.com. We have tips and tricks for any stage of your brews-free journey. Our Sober Girl Social Club is a great place for support and accountability. For only $17 a month, you will have the support from our certified coaches and like-minded women to help you overcome the challenges and say, audio to alcohol once and for all. Head to assobergirlsguide.com now. Thank you so much for listening and have a great day. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) [ Silence ]