[MUSIC PLAYING] How about Saka stationed off to the side? And after all made the initial save, it was sent right back across the crease. And Saka has his second goal of the game, and that may be the difference. The Boston Bruins come in here and play an exceptional road game, and beat the many believes by a score of four to one, despite being outshot 33 to 30. Good to just get back rip at it, back to back, and play them two games ago. So we have the phone to pick with them, and we're going to play better tomorrow night. Yeah, great. I mean, great chance for us to respond to the way eight months other night against them. Well, I said, yeah, I think we're just focused on the next game. And I mean, whatever they do, we're ready for that. Van Hornock Show sports at 5'9", Van Ennis, Bret Gunning. No, the Bruins have figured it out. Here's how you beat the Leafs. Make them hit two posts and have a puck pulled off the goal line. Guys, what are you going to do? Yep. All right, that's it. Simple, simple enough. And also, care more because you just got embarrassed over the weekend against an islander scene that's extra to make blasts. Get a get a get a. I will say, like you throw in the caveat after that, but people will say, well, care more. That actually has been the recipe in the chat. It's like they will say that. I'm with you, mostly, that that was not a referendum on things. Not. It's a regular season game, not possible for it to be a referendum and fine. Get blown out 10-1 tonight. That would be, I mean, boy, that would be a nice fodder. Although we'd have to talk too much about the game headed into trade deadline day tomorrow. So maybe don't do that. And again, I think we've had a lot of trade deadline talk today for a reason. So I don't know. OK, well, they have a lot to capture in the game. How about this one that we haven't mentioned? Nick Robertson was demoted to the Marlies. Marlies played a game yesterday. Yeah. Nick Robertson didn't. And he was talking about protecting him from injury. OK, injury for the big club or injury from prospective trade partners with Nick Robertson. Maybe they just saw a perfect work with Billy Samsonov and they're like, that's the secret sauce. You've got to get a guy down there, put him in the Marlies lab, make him wear the sweatsuit and all of a sudden they're like, ew, I'm a Marley. But don't make him play a game. He could come back and be a 40 goal guy. Maybe that's the blueprint here. I actually do think there is just-- I don't think there's something on hold that they're saving him for or something. But I do think that there is a very real possibility he's included in a trade. It's the Marlies. It's not like he needed him for the big club, sorry Marlies. Who cares what happens? Said him and made all the sense in the world to me. Yeah. Yeah, I think he could easily be traded before 3 o'clock tomorrow afternoon. I don't think that's anywhere near the earth-shattering trade that we're talking about. The Colton Pareco, he's not involved. I would be surprised if the Leafs are consummating the insane deal of Colton Pareco and maybe like Pablo Buschnovich as well. And Nick Robertson is featured prominently in the return that the Blues are getting in that one. I don't think he'd be featured prominently. But I actually think the bigger a trade is, the more likely it is that Nick Robertson's in it. Sure. So, yeah, I think I-- But that's not the-- like you're getting the first? No, of course, of course. And it's like you got to get like Minton. There's no player that you're getting for Nick Robertson that is a, you know, a forgotten needle mover just that makes it impact one way or another. It's like, you know, you could do your, you could do your Raspis Andine trade for Nick Robertson that you did last year, although you can't. Because Raspis Andine was playing NHL games regularly. Say, oh, you feel about it. What about David Savard? For-- Well, like having him involved in David Savard. Yeah, I think if you're a team like Montreal, that that's exactly the type of player you should be looking at taking flyers on. And it's not just because he's a young player who's showing a little promise. It's a young player with one elite skill set. Now, the ability to rip a puck doesn't matter if you can't get time and space to do it. And that's kind of been the question with him. But that's the type of guy you want to take a bet on. It's like he can kind of go two ways. You can find a guy with an elite skill and bet on that. Or you can find a guy who's going to be a good pro and bet on that. And, you know, obviously one of those has a way higher ceiling than the other. So I do imagine, unless they shock the world and start-- I don't know, Martin Jones or Ilya Samsonov on the back end of back-to-backs, both games, which we have seen once the season due to necessity and keeping the Hilda Beast out of NHL action. It feels like it's going to be Joe Walznet tonight. And there's now fewer than 20 games to go. No, sorry, exactly 20 games to go. By 9.30 tonight, there'll be fewer than 20 games to go. I hope. Wrapped up no overtime tonight. Maybe I'll ask our next guest. Yes, I was going to ask you. Yeah, I'll ask our next guest. That's Luke, not me. All right, this insider is brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online. And in the showroom, visit donvalleynorthlexus.com. Today's insider is Luke Fox Sportsnet Leif's Reporter. How's it going, buddy? It's going well. Just trying to recover from all the excitement of that favorite game like that, boy. That was a rough one. So I was just saying this earlier in the show, like natural stat trick was down. Like they weren't actually counting the stats, but I actually believed it. And I was like, oh, zero high danger shot attempts for either team into the third period, and I tweeted that out. And I was like, that's plausible, right? It's kind of funny, because usually these teams deliver some sort of animosity, or a nightmare, or at least a bunch of gold, something. That was up there. That may have been the dullest leaf game of the season. There was nothing going on at either end. Both teams just keeping things to the outside. The savers are deflated, because they just traded away their leading score after morning skate. And the Leafs are obviously looking ahead to the boss. And I think, I don't know, there was nothing going on last night. At least it gave you guys good opportunity for gossiping and scuttlebutt in the press box, right? Like hard to do that when you're locked in on an enthralling hockey match. But I don't know, I feel like right before a deadline, you have you guys have a chance to have like almost like a team meeting up there. It's kind of perfect, Luke. Yeah, it's true. And you know what, we got treated to a couple of good games. That Rangers game was a blast Saturday night. The Boston game was important, and both teams were trying hard. So yeah, you're going to get a few of these, and they're winning 82 of them, right? All right, let's talk about the thing I was going to ask Brent about, but now I'm going to ask you. And we'll all weigh in on this. But yeah, Joe Wall, getting his second consecutive start against the Bruins this week, we assume. Again, they get surprises. But it seems like this was always the plan, and I don't know why go away from it now. How quickly do the Maple Leafs need to establish a pecking order? Or do they need to have this thing pretty definitive by the end of the season? Who the number one guy is? Who the game one starter is come the postseason? I actually think this is a good thing. I mean, when you think about the Leafs' goaltending situation over the course of the season, the first 60 games or whatever it's been, it's been up and down. And it's like only one guy's been going, and they've actually been pretty fortunate, you know, that when Wall got hurt, Samsonoff was not too bad. And then when Samsonoff hit the skids, Martin Jones came out of nowhere and threw on a cape for a couple of weeks. And then when Martin Jones started to lose it, Samsonoff came back and seemed to be resurrected from the dead, and then now Joseph Wall is finally healthy. I think this is actually finally a good thing. They got three healthy guys. Samsonoff got his swagger back, as Sheldon Keith put it yesterday. You know, if it wasn't for him, they may have lost that game. You know, there were a couple of great days. The natural stat trick might have missed him, but there were a couple of great days. The Paige Thompson won an OT, too, you know, flashing the glove and having a little bit of attitude doing it. So he's 11 and 3, so it's he clear waivers. I know the same percentage isn't too incredible for him, but he's winning games and he's getting his mojo back, which was a fantastic thing. And then Joseph Wall was, you know, he was okay his last third, but he did win his two previous games, one with the Marley's, and technically he looks very sound and calm, and this is a good thing. You want two guys. If you're planning on winning more than one round, you're probably going to need two guys. The Vasaleskis of the world, the Halifax of the world, there's only a couple of those. So for a team that's structured like the Leafs, you need two guys going, and I think it's fine that there's some healthy competition for the net right now. Well, and they're going to have four by the time the playoffs roll around when you throw in Jonesy and Matt Murray there. They're going to fall out. I don't know. He's lurking. He's lurking. I just mostly in terms of in terms of Leafs looking forward, plenty of names off the board after yesterday. I think the one most people have circled is not that the Leafs had to do it, but it would have been the most interesting or maybe would have helped them the most is the trade the Oilers made for for Henrik and Karak. Was there anything you felt like they really missed out on that happened yesterday, or were those names always probably a little too rich for the Leafs? Well, that's the thing. Absolutely they missed out on guys that would make the roster better. So at center, yeah, I think Henrik gives them more center depth. I think even Alex Weinberg, who ended up in New York, would have made their center depth better. And then on defense, like, yeah, could they, would their defense look a little better if they had a Sean Walker? Sure. No one had a fin, absolutely. But I think trade living kind of laid it out the expectations and tried to temper them and all those availabilities. Kind of like, wow, we don't really want to part with things if the prices are too steep. And there was definitely a different tone heading into this deadline than there was in the last couple of Dubas ones where he was a little bit on tilt. And he obviously had nothing to lose. Like, I think that's a factor that maybe we're not talking about enough is the climate around the front office when these moves are made. So Dubas basically was going for broke. He had no job security. Trade living's in year one. So he's taking a more cautious and patient approach, obviously. And he's led a lot of the big D targets. And, you know, the middle, the middle six center targets went by because he thought the prices were too high. And so, yeah, I think there are lots of guys that are off the board that could have helped the Leafs. But I think a lot of the fans would agree, like, do you want to pay those prices? And some prices, they literally can't pay because they don't have enough picks. So what are your bullets? It's your first rounder, which he says he's willing to spend for the right piece, which, looking at the rental market now, the right piece is a non rental. Or it's Minton or Cowan. And there's no sense that he has interest in trading those guys. So other than that, it's what do you have to spend? The Islanders third rounder? Like, what's that going to get you? Yeah. The thing that jumped out to me in that answer there, and I think it's really well said, is the autonomy issue of it all. I mean, Dubas, you're right. I mean, he was spending a look at the deadline that happened last year. Look at all the ones leading into that. Do you think that that was part of the philosophical change that's been made here was Shanahan wanting to pull back? Because, I mean, I know it's Brad's living in the chair and he makes the call, but it's literally got Shanahan's name on it. He obviously was on board to a certain extent with the moves that were being made before. Do you think the lack of anything to show for it has kind of caused him to be a little more gunshot? Is it just the lack of resources there? Like, how much of this is true living's philosophy? And, you know, he wouldn't have been brought in if he didn't share what Shanahan was thinking. But as much as it's Shanahan's, that's the thing I keep kind of coming to with all of this. No, I think you're on to something there, Brent, like, I think he has some autonomy, but I don't think he has the autonomy to trade a first rounder or trade a mints in our account with bringing it to his boss. And I'm sure there was some of that with Dubas too. I'm sure, you know, Dubas and Shanahan would have a conversation before trading a first rounder or trading the number one or number two prospect in the system. Like, those are big organizational decisions. And I don't think that's abnormal across the league. But certainly, you know, trade living is kind of held the forward in terms of let's keep Shanahan's boss be going because, I mean, we'll never know. It's like sliding doors alternate universe, but there was a feeling that Dubas was getting over the idea of doubling, tripling, quadrupling down on the court for like his last availability in Toronto. There was a sense of maybe he was finally going to deviate from that, whether it was changing the coach or whether it was breaking up that group. And then trailerman comes in and he's just trying to get the lay of the land. And the message from up top is, well, you got to sign Austin and then the message is, well, you got to sign Willie. So, you know, you take care of that bit of business and then you look around and it's like, okay, what resources do I have to make other moves? He is a little bit handcuffed with just the how the team is scraping the cupboards bare. But at some point, they're going to have to pull the trigger on a big move because as much as I like minting, you know, and as much as the promise, the nice surprise box of these first rounders is great. The window is kind of now. You know, so I'm not saying you have to do something before Friday, but, you know, next year, the pressure ratchets up again, like, this is this is go time. This is the point where this group is supposed to be sprinting, not just kind of plotting along. Yeah. But it is. It's a field of available players that is not that deep. And yes, the assets you have are not plentiful, but there are moves out there. I mean, there's crazy ones like the Colton Pereco one, which is it's hard to even talk about considering he has a full no move in that contract is so long. I mean, to a lesser extent, there's the David Savard one, like how, how in on David Savard do you think this leaf team will be as we head towards three o'clock on Friday? Well, they've definitely explored it. You know, the, from my understanding, the ask is, is the first and that's because you're, you're not just getting one run, you're getting two runs out of David Savard. And the Leafs had interest in him way back when he was with Columbus. They were one of the teams poking around on him and, and trying to get him. But again, it's like, I don't know, is, is he definitely a top four guy for the next two years? Or is he, is he fading out? I love a lot of stuff he does. He kills penalties and the penalty killing in Toronto is atrocious right now when you compare it to the other teams that are going to be in the playoffs. And we know how important special teams are. So the, the interest there is, is legit. The problem is, if you're Montreal, why budge off your price? Because there's, there's no deadline for David Savard. He's got another year of term. So we've seen very few guys with terms, term on their deals move. You know, we did see the buy room, middle stat trade, and buy room has some term. The middle stat doesn't. He's an RFA and the Sabres weren't really planning on giving him the raise that he was going to command. So there's urgency of Buffalo's part to get rid of them. But these deals are more complicated when one team holds all the leverage in. In this case, it's Montreal because, and then same with the Pareco. It's like, if you're Doug Armstrong, I don't have to make that deal before Friday. I can hold on to it until I get my asking price. So that's the kind of the tricky situation they find themselves in. So I think the question you've got to ask is, is this Leafs team one David Savard away definitely giving the way better against the brilliance, against the Panthers? And I'm not so sure it is. Yeah, I'm not. I'm not either. I mean, he definitely helps. The penalty kill part of it is the one thing that could tip me that way. If I am going to be swayed because it's been so bad and I think they just need some guys who are used to killing penalties quite frankly, you know, the, the way I keep reading this is that it feels like tri-living wants to be involved in all of this. And I don't, I don't think this is just a kicking tires. I think if there's a deal to be made there, he'd make one. But it feels more and more like this is trending towards, all right. What's out there at 250 on Friday, right before the deadline? And what can I get for a third round pick or something along those lines? Does it feel to you like that's going to kind of be the MO of, you know, I don't want to call it dumpster diving or pick and scraps, but it's kind of what'll be happening after everyone gets their first kind of run of the buffet that is the deadline. Yeah. Well, I think the first run is kind of already come and gone. Pretty much. Like, well, it was even started with TANF and Monahan at home and then yesterday it was, was kind of crazy, you know, a lot of the, the bigger names went or some of them resigned, right? There's also pressure to re-sign your guys like really made a, a decision on Nick Sealer and he was a guy that the Leafs were, had some level of interest among other teams, lots of teams did. Um, so it, it, he already is kind of waiting for the, the second run then. And I think he did that. And I wrote about this a little bit in my story this morning is he kind of did that in free agency too. Like when you look at the deals they, they made with Bertuzzi and Domi, that was on July 2nd, not July 1st. They kind of waited it out because it, you know, Bertuzzi initially was asking for a multi-year deal and Domi wanted a bit more term. So they kind of waited at the first rush and said, okay, I'll, I'll, who's left? Who can we get that's a little bit lower risk? And that seems to be the way that it's trending. Unless he has something up his sleeve and does a Pareko splash or something comes out of nowhere that, that we're not seeing, that kind of is the feeling, you know, that it's going to be a depth piece, maybe a depth forward and a depth D, uh, but, you know, Lubuske, I hate to say it, but Lubuske might be the, uh, the biggest player that he made. Hey, Russian bear. He looked pretty, looked pretty good last night. It was solid. It looked solid. It's the best thing that happened to the Leafs yesterday, Noah Hanifen going to the Golden Knights. I mean, obviously there was the Boston Scuttlebutt, there was Tampa as well, you know, not to say Boston can't still go get a Lindholm or somebody along those lines, but is it safe to say that that's kind of the best thing so far that's no offense to, to my boy, Helia Lubuske and the Russian bear, but has that been the best, uh, kind of piece of deadline business for the Leafs as Hanifen going to the West? For sure. For sure. Uh, because there was a lot of noise that Hanifen's preferred destination or at least one of his preferred destinations was Tampa. And from Craig Conroy's perspective, you won't, even though Hanifen didn't have, you know, a full no move, he wasn't able to dictate it. He kind of was in that if you trade him to a place that is going to resign him and he's going to want to resign, then all of a sudden the return gets bigger. So he apparently had interest in resigning in Tampa as one would with no taxes and sunshine and championship pedigree, all those things. Uh, so to get him to the West and not have him with a divisional rival that you may meet down the road, it probably wouldn't be in the first round. Uh, it is probably a good thing for the Leafs for sure. Luke, always a pleasure. Uh, big couple of days still to come for you. Keep that phone charged. Yeah. All right. Thanks buddy. Okay. Do you really get tonight? Yeah. This would be a good one. Yeah. Absolutely. See you buddy. Uh, Luke Fox, our insider brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom, visit Don Valley North Lexus dot com. Here's what I'm not going to do. I'm not going to retroactively go back and kill Kyle Dubas for deadlines past. I mean, maybe the Felineo ones different. It's bold of you. So a lot of people like him to do that stuff. Yeah. Cause you know what last year was? And Luke's right to talk about the mentality of a guy who's going into the final year of his deal. Yeah. Yeah. It was Alex and thoughtless is 2015, except the result was very different. Yeah. But Alex and thoughtless staring down the barrel of being fired as well in 2015 with a team that had yet to realize its potential despite being world series favorites in 2013, abject disasters couldn't even make the playoffs were under 500 despite having all these incredible players. And he's like, what do I care if these prospects are here or not? I'm going to be gone this year. We don't make the playoffs through everything in the wall. It all worked out swimmingly and we view that and rightly so in a very positive light. I can't tell you and prove it's in the pudding like Ronald Riley was a big part of winning that series. Yes, he was against the Tampa Bay lightning. Yeah. Luke's like, yeah, as David Savard, the guy that's going to push you over the top like no, right? No, Riley was. Yep. And Ronald Riley did. Mm hmm. Edo, the bar so low. It's like stupid low. You got it. It's impossible. The limbo under. Mm hmm. But right. Or highly helped you get over it. Yeah. He factually did. So yeah, would it be nice to have some of the assets Kyle Dubas is giving away in previous deadlines for guys that didn't have term and yet did he maybe anticipate Ryan or Riley staying along around for a longer term than the one that he was guaranteed with him? Sure. I don't care. Like that was it was a piece of business worth doing a season ago. Unfortunately, there is no guy like that this year and actually not unfortunately because it is fortunate like that that guy doesn't exist because you have no assets. Yeah, because he'd be a Boston Bruin if he existed. That's why you don't want that to be the case. Yeah. You're right. We can quibble like all of these moves are not the same. I think even like this isn't retroactive at the time. The Felino discussion was Felino or Hall and even immediately in the aftermath when Hall's looking great on Boston, you go, maybe maybe you should have done that one. So yeah, there are ones you can quibble with or others. You know, we can do this with all of them, right? The Jake Buzz and trade. It's like, was it a good one? Well, he got hurt at the end. So maybe not. But they had a bunch of good years with them there. I think that you have to kind of take all of these part and parcel as as you look at them while you're making a face. No, because I'm just thinking. You don't want me bringing up the Jake Buzz and trade? No, no. And just like, yeah, for doing like just all the trades, like that cadre one is all of course. That's like patient zero for the beginning of the end. Yeah. You want to talk about patient patient zero tonight, Leafs are in Boston and our producer just just alerted me to this. Did you see this? Yeah. Tonight, of all nights, you know, they could have done it any night they wanted to. They will be honoring the 2010 11 cup team before the game tonight as part of their like centennial season or whatever. This is what they should do. Like they should twist the knife against the team. They load the most. That's what they're supposed to do. But God, it's going to paint me when I want to just watch the game at seven o'clock and they're like, and here's Patrice Bergeron. Yeah, it's just not anything I'm going to want to see. So don't like them twisting the knife. Yeah, I think for for that reason, it is irritating because yeah, seven o'clock or seven ten puck drop means more like seven thirty seven. I don't like that part, but yeah, I mean, I would hope that the Bruins would view the Leafs in that light that they would like, at least they think about the Leafs. Mm hmm. Right? Like they should have waited all the Canucks game town really would have been the way to do it. Yeah, but I mean, you risk of like civil that's right, like it did some unrest in the city of Vancouver. I was going to say that that's nothing to do with the city of Boston. That was just like a make good on for the city of Vancouver. You're right. Yeah, it's true. Yeah. It's prevailing in that regard. All right. When we come back, let's talk to our Leafs historian, Toronto star contributor Damien Cox Naxes. The fan morning show continues. Ben Annis Brandt, Gunning Sportsnet 590, the fan. Diving deep into leaps, Raptors, J's and NFL. The JD Buncombe podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you guys talk at all of those great things I think you just gave it to Brad, I mean, I see a lot of news kind of happening today. I'm sure in the medical phase could be pretty hectic, so I think we're all aware and there's a chat about it, but I don't think anybody's, you know, it's not an ITD phone. You know, it's still got a good days and a lot of things can happen and I also happen. How much would you say the trade deadline might be distracting this viewer? Uh, I have no idea, I don't have social media. Fan morning, Joe Sportsnet 590, the fan. Ben Annis Brandt, Gunning. That was Tyler Bertuzzi. It doesn't have social media. Okay, I have no idea. I don't know, it's distracting. How could it be? Get off Joe Wal's corner. That was, remember Joe Wal showing up to the ring flash here, it's Ryan O'Reilly doing here. This is weird because he doesn't, he's not in the group chat with the boys, I guess. So yeah, I, I do not think it's overly distracting for a Leafs team that is, if they're going to do something and I still stick to my guns in it being a 100% certainty, the Brad for the living will do something for a three o'clock tomorrow afternoon. Pretty clearly something of limited significance, I think, unless you, you think Nick Robertson headed out the door is something significant and I'm sure Nick would, would feel that way. Yeah. He's not even with this group right now. So I don't think that's like going to be earth shattering to the, the locker room chemistry of the Toronto Leafs. No, I told you he's in the, he's in the ultimate reset lab that is going down to the Marley's but not playing games for them. That's where he is right now. But yeah, I don't, I don't, I could see him moving, but I don't think that it is earth shattering if he moves. Yeah. I don't think you're going to see a lot of long faces at three o'clock on Friday if Nick Robertson's headed out the door and they fairly well, Nick Robertson, if in fact that happens. But yeah, we'll see. Let's talk to Damien Cox, Toronto star contributor and our Leafs historian. How's it going? Dama. So you guys don't think that losing Nick Robertson will bite them in the butt like the, like dealing away Alex Barabano did that what you're saying? Here's what I'm 100 percent kind of crazy talk we get around the trade that light every year. Here's what I'm 100 percent certain of if Nick Robertson is traded before three o'clock on Friday that in his first game against the Toronto Maple Leafs presumably next season because it'll be again to a team that's not in the postseason is light in the Leafs up for at least a hat trick like minimum hat trick for Nick Robertson next season is first game against the Maple Leafs. Absolutely. That's the way the that's the world turns around what, how it impacts the Maple Leafs, right? That's right. Yeah, all of all people scored against the Leafs. Like come on, let's take it easy. Yeah, it's it's it's wild whacky stuff. You know, some of the guys they've moved out, you know, you talk about, you know, that everybody wants to get this guy and get this guy, they moved out some good players the last couple of years. They were great players, but you know, you see Rasmus Sandin just signed a five-year contract with with Washington. You know, he was he was a good player and, you know, you're it people forget, right? I don't even remember what they gave up for Ryan O'Reilly. I don't even remember what they gave up for Jake Muzzin, but you do give up stuff. And so when you see all this, oh, you got to go make some moves, you know, veyas has done this. So why don't the Leafs do this? One really has nothing to do with the other and veyas does seem to have this formula where they just they don't care about first round picks. They got a cop. They've got a and so that gives them house money. They could just like go crazy, you know, treat the world as though, you know, it's only one one week left in the history of the planet and it's all going to blow up. So they just get everybody, right? I mean, it's just it's kind of amazing what they're doing in veyas, but that doesn't mean every other team can do it. Yeah, it is. It's funny. I mentioned earlier in the show that, you know, we can quibble and I don't think they're the de facto answer for this, but just as far as how fun it must be to be a fan of any team in sport, must be great to be a gold Knights fan. Every year your team's going for it. Every single time there's a star player, you're involved and you your wind or you're at least in the mix every year, like it must be remarkable, but every circumstance is is not the same. And part of that is, you know, we we talk about it that they now have their big money guys, but for a long time in veyas, part of the recipe that the success was the antithesis of the way everyone else went about it, of having your big money guys and stars and scrubs. Vegas had a lot of guys in that kind of middle class. And I think that's the kind of interesting part about it as well. Well, and you know, I mean, nobody wants to talk about it now, but the bill will come due. Now when it comes due, it'll come due like it's coming due in Pittsburgh now or like it's coming due in Calgary now, and you'll and then you become like the Buffalo Sabres who are going to miss the playoffs for a 13th straight year hasn't happened. You trade away all those first picks for guys who are older. You trade away for success right now. Maybe that's the trade you have to make, maybe, you know, and maybe that's the trade every fan would go for, but you know, you look at how long now it takes to rebuild, you better consider that. That's why I think for the Maple Leafs, and I totally get a wife and say, why aren't they getting this guy? I get that. Aside from the fact that they've gone and made aggressive moves and it hasn't really made a huge difference for them the last few years. But when you look at what they've got to do with their with their cap and to keep the guys they've got, they're going to need young guys who can play. And that's why trading away Easton Cowan and some of these other guys doesn't make a whole lot of sense, right? You're going to need those guys to play for you down the road. That doesn't make fans happy today, but it might make them happy in five years. So it sounds to me like you're very much on the Nick Kiprio side of the aisle and Kipper with it was a story on the Toronto Stars well today talking about how, how the deadlines of years passed with Kyle Dubas is, you know, that that's coming home to Roost this year with the lack of assets at Brad Trade Living's disposal. Are you of the same mind then that this is, and I don't know if your opinion was the same in the moment that that Kyle Dubas was too aggressive and this is this being more prudent, being a little less aggressive at the deadline is actually the better course of action for this team. I made a career. I'm not agreeing with Nick on everything on anything ever. Whether we're on a panel together, whether, no, I'm just, I basically, I agree with it. I agreed with Dubas being aggressive and I would agree with Brad for living being aggressive at this deadline if I thought there was anything that would really change things, but it's going to come down to this and I kind of think there's this weird world where the Maple Leafs might end up becoming this team that teams don't really want to play in the playoffs. Why? Well, they've got these star players who are, you know, who are going to break out someday in the playoffs and they've got this goalie who all of a sudden seems to have his game together. I mean, Ilya Samsonov last night saved two points from the Toronto Maple Leafs and has been very good to brilliance since he came back. You can tell me a player that's out there that would change the basic realities that the Leafs will win if they get the goaltending in at their star's play that I'd be interested in and I, I, you know, all these phrases are meant and whatever to trade them all, but the reasons, you know, they're just is not that player as far as I'm aware. No, I'm right there with you. I mean, like they went out and got Ryan O'Reilly, like I want to cons my trophy. He filled an important need. He allowed John Tavares to play a different role on the team. It made all the sense in the world and I'm with you. There just isn't that guy out there. How much do you think the Leafs action should be dictated by what the teams around them do? Because we saw last year everybody in the East slowed it up. Everybody and their brother went out and got somebody, even, even teams who weren't doing a ton felt they had to do a little something. Seems like that's been the case with all the teams in the West. Teams in the East have been a little more quiet. I can, there's two sides of that coin to me. On one hand, you could say, all right, you don't need to do much. Nobody else is. On the other hand, could you potentially tip the scales by making a move? How much would you be influenced by what the teams are going to have to kind of go through or, or doing it this time of year? Zero. Absolutely zero. Look, Florida did nothing last year. The deadline went to the final. You know, it just, your team is made in the summer for the most, and you might be able to make one move along the way that, you know, the Leafs did by adding Labooshkin on the back end. But, you know, it's, that's your team and you're more, what you need is that team to come together and play as a team. And what are the least 110 on the last 12? They're playing as much like a team as they played all year long. But why did they lose to Florida? Everybody wants to talk about because Matthew Kichuk, you know, beats up somebody or, or Sam Bennett hurt, you know, Matthew Knives. That wasn't very nice. It wasn't very nice. Why do they, why do they lose in five? Sam's not got hurt. You know what I mean? And the other guy played his brains out. And once he stopped playing his brains out, like Terry Price, when Montreal got to the final, they lose. It's about gold-tending, guys. That's what it's going to be about. And all these teams in the West that are loading up and their fans are getting so excited. You know, Colorado, Vegas, Edmonton, Vancouver, at least three of those four teams are going to be bitterly disappointed when this is over and are going to feel like, oh, crap, we gave up real good stuff for guys who didn't come through for us. That's the nature of the trade deadline. I, I basically review, I think the Leafs will do something to add a depth player or add another one. I can't change a team now. You just can't. Well, you could if you do that, Colton Pareko thing, but yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't think that's going to happen. Um, be exactly what Colton Pareko's not the player he used to be, right? No, no, no, no. He, he's not. And he holds a full no trade clause, um, as well. So it's just, it feels like, uh, that's not going to happen. Um, but you're right to talk about gold-tending, obviously. They should stop calling it hockey, just call it gold-tending. And yeah, they, they, they, they did take advantage of also Andre Vasilevsky, not looking like his Hall of Fame self in those six games, but that, that's all right. That's it. You're allowed to. And that might have been the beginning of the end of his entire career because it hasn't looked like the same guy coming off the surgery as well. So let's look forward to, well, tonight's game and potentially a first-round match up between the Leafs and the Bruins who had the Vessna trophy winner a season ago who didn't get the start in game seven, uh, that they lost in overtime to the Panthers in the first round last year. Jeremy Swamman, yeah, despite that outing, he gave up four in that game, like his numbers are pretty spectacular, but unproven. Like, how do you view the gold-tending match up? We do it. Hey, Ilya Samsonov, been in goal for a postseason victory, and he out-dueled off future Hall of Famer. How do you view the gold-tending match up between these two teams? Well, and are, are, are, do we know it's Samsonov for sure tonight, or do we, could it be Wall? No, no, it's, it's definitely, I would say it's almost certainly Wall considering Samsonov started yesterday. Yeah. Yeah. I, I would think so. Those are a really good litmus test for the Leafs. They're at a tough spot here. They lose, or they almost lose last night to Buffalo, and they look like they, they seem to really struggle with Buffalo's size last night, um, and, and their ability to, to create space. They didn't have much offensive time all, all night. They end up winning in overtime. Samsonov saves in the great save on, on Tage Thompson. Now they got to go down to Boston, a team they can't beat, um, so I think it's a bit of a, of a litmus test, but at the same time, you know, I don't think the season lives or dies on this game. Um, the Leafs are at a tough spot, you know, with the, they're like playing in the American league east. They got Florida and Boston ahead of them. Their eighth overall, three of the top eight teams in the league are in their division. Um, so there's no easy way out. They've got to find a way to, to beat the Bruins, uh, probably. And I think that search was being competitive. And so they've got to compete tonight, even if tonight doesn't turn out the way you want. Um, but it's, it's a tough goal. And from a goaltending standpoint, you know, again, uh, it was like last year, how many teams have a proven goal? How many teams knew that, oh, if we just had eight in Hill, we would have won the cop. You know, it just doesn't work that way. Um, you know, and I hate to keep going back to Florida, but Ross, he didn't even start the playoffs. So there's going to be some things to change. I think Boston, you know, you hear talk about them trading away all market. Why would they do that? I think they need both guys probably. And right now when I see them play, they just look as sound as anybody, but they did last year too. And then it all went away in the first row. Yeah. They, I'm with you. They did not see a world, unless they were getting a, you know, to go back to what we were talking about with the Leafs, a true difference maker and like, you know, I don't say this to begrudge the player, but like, I don't know that you do it like a Lindolm trade there. If it involved one of the goalies, just cause the having that, that backup plan is so important or not even a backup of one A, one B you tweeted a question about a little bit before coming on the hit. I'm just going to ask the masses, does anyone play in Calgary anymore? What is the fix for this? I mean, the flames have not been some abject, sad, sack franchise. It's not gone the way they wanted to since Kachuk left, but it's not been a disaster that should have people asking out left, right and center. But do you look at that as a Calgary problem? I mean, it's been a problem in Edmonton when Conor McDavid or Wayne Gretzky weren't, weren't playing there. And you know, I make this point all the time that I am so sick and tired of hearing players and hey, they're allowed to do what they want to do. But saying, get me out of Canada, I need to go play in the States. Like, I don't think there's a fix that the NHL can do about this, but is it a problem? It's a problem for Calgary, it's a big problem, you know, and I don't know what it is. I mean, Kachuk basically said, I don't want to play here. Johnny Goudreau, when it came to it, said, I don't want to play here. They wanted to sign Noah Hanifen, he didn't want to play there. And you know, you add that to Tyler Tafoli and Lynn Holm and Zadorov and now maybe Markstrom, you know, who's very unhappy there too. And for all these guys, they've got a couple of prospects and a couple of first round picks. Now, you contrast that with Elise, who had no trouble signing Austin Matthews at all. You know, maybe that one of the best American players ever, and he doesn't seem to mind playing in Canada, and he doesn't seem to mind playing in Toronto where we're supposed to believe that nobody wants to play in Toronto. So, boy, oh boy, I, you know, I think it's a real problem for the Calgary Flames. When Brad True Living was there and they couldn't sign guys, I thought, they've got to really drill down and find out what it is with their guys that don't want it. The arena's old, I kind of get that, but Calgary's an awfully nice place to play. Ownership is, you know, management has been, management and coaching haven't always seen eye to eye, like when Daryl Sutter was a coach and True Living was the man. But there's something wrong in Calgary that these guys don't want to play there. And all of a sudden, now Calgary's looking like they're a step away from being Ottawa. And that is a real concern for Craig Conroy, I think, as he's starting out as GM. Now maybe he's got, he's doing what he's got to do. Let's take it right down to the studs and start all over again. No point wasting our time, but it's going to be a long road back. Yeah, does not, yeah, you mentioned there's no big, meanie, Daryl Sutter there anymore. So, yeah, I don't know. Craig Conroy is always smiling. Like, yeah, I don't know. He does seem like the nicest man. Holy cow, is he ever? He was always that way when he played to you. Yes. He was wonderful to do. Yeah. And you know what? And I will tell you this. He's getting kudos for what he's done in the, in the, in the, and around the deadline. Part of that is because guys like them. Yes. And you'll, you'll see this. You're going to see GMs and agents. Oh, what a great job by this guy, what a great, a lot of his kids. These are the guys who give information and they get a fact at the trade deadline. That's a dirty little industry secret for you. Pass it on. Hey, Damien, guess who else got a lot of kudos for the job he did under not ideal circumstances? The guy currently in charge of the Toronto Maple Leafs when he was forced into trading Matthew Kachuk and had to pivot after Johnny Goudreau waved goodbye and it didn't work out. So good. Not, not, not. What do you think is always, do you like what he's done with the Leafs so far? I mean, proof will be in the pudding, I suppose. Not before three o'clock on Friday because I don't think that whoever is acquired is going to be the difference maker and it's, it's going to be, yeah. And I guess it matters how impactful Tyler Bertuzzi and Max Domi are in the postseason. That's it. The two moves that matter that he made and, you know, he also signed Klingberg and Reeves and you have to give him credit for Matthews and Neelander, but it felt like, you know, those guys were going to get signed almost regardless of who the GM was. It does feel like to a certain extent, but yeah, it's interesting now that Domi and Bertuzzi are playing together. It's like, that's, that is Brad for Living's baby. It might not be Sheldon Keys favorite line on the team, but it's got to be Brad for Living's because that is either going to be the thing that undoes this team or not the thing, but one of the things that undoes them are one of the reasons they have success. So yeah, it's kind of all riding on that second line for him, it feels like. I was just going to say, and all these moves that we talked about, I think they're, and we've gone all over them, the most important move he made was the way they hand told Ilya Samsonov. Yeah. You know, a lot of teams wouldn't have done that. A lot of leaf teams wouldn't have done that. They would have traded the guy. They would have done whatever, but whatever they did with Samsonov changed their season around. You could remember, wall was out, they had nobody, they were in trouble. They were in a wild card spot when Samsonov has come back and played so well, it changed their season. You are correct, and he's looked like a different dude since he came back. You should jot that down for the history books because you got to remember this. Yeah. And the next book that you write, how long after this season do you have to wait? Well, I mean, if they win the cup, I guess you can write it next year. Oh, it's ready. Oh, it's ready. Okay. Good. I've always got one, I've always got one ready to go. This is now, 35, three years, I've had one ready and I've not had to use it yet. David, I want to read the Damien Cox, Canadian sports media book. I want to read the sports media book, not the leaf book, but that aside, what is the memoir coming out? See, you want the dirty inside story. Here's what's really going on. I do love the deadline. I do love the deadline for that because some of the stuff that gets said and everybody wants to be first and you can't anymore in a Twitter world, right? And so it's, it's, it's, it's kind of nice to sit back and just sort of watch. Yep. And maybe there's still some big moves to come, although yesterday, I felt like a lot of big cut out of the way. Anywho, Damien, always a pleasure. Okay, guys. Thanks. We'll talk soon. We will. Damien Cox, Toronto star contributor, our Leafs historian, you can, you can always just do the, like, the shy to V.D. great expectations as well. You just do that. Oh, yeah. God. And shy, rightly so, started compiling all the info from that 2013. Why wouldn't you? See? He's ready. He didn't end up. And John Lott as well. Throw him in there. Okay. Cool. Um, Leafs can't beat the Bruins is what Damien said. Mm. I mean, this season during the regular season, that's just factually correct. True. Have not picked up two points in any of the three attempts against the Boston Bruins. Lost a couple of seven game series in this tenure to the Boston Bruins. Like, we don't need to go back to 4-1 because like, okay, Morgan Rylitz, like the last guy, like, who's, like, that is a million years ago. Literally the only guy. Yeah. A million years ago. So, like, the discussion I'm going to have is not even, that's like, obviously factual, that those guys don't wear that. Even the two seven game series, though, like, yeah, do you feel? And I know this is so sad and so embarrassing, but considering they have actually won a postseason series, like you go into a seven game, like you feel like you're up against it against anybody. But do the Bruins actually hold some emotional historic sway over this group of guys because they lost a couple of seven game series to this team? A historic sway is too strong. And I want to be clear. I think Brad Marchon has this on a lot of teams in the league. But I think that guy, the swagger that he plays with specifically at that time of year, it's just not something the Leafs have been able to possess. Maybe it's different now to your point that they've won around. Pasternak is the other guy there. It is not a team thing. It is those two guys specifically. So, I don't look at it as you're right. No. Is it like 2011? God, no. I mean, although we'll have to remember it tonight before a puck drop because why wouldn't you? But that's the way I look at it is, no, they don't carry it. But that sweater does still, it's not big brother, but it's like slightly older twin. I think is the way I look at it. Yeah. 2019 just, it feels a lifetime ago. There's so many more disappointments beyond that. I mean, again, they lost to the Columbus Bluejack. It's like, I remember. It's the loss of the Montreal Canadiens despite being a 3-1 in a playoff series, okay? Every time you say it, I see a Gal Chaniac with that spinning back hand just into the middle of the slot. God. They lost to the Lightning in a seven-game series in which a goal by John Tavares was negated because of some bizarre, I mean, not bizarre. I guess it was an interference. Bizarre. It was interference for sure. No, it wasn't. No. It's like all that supersedes like the Bruins and like there wasn't anything. Okay. They got outplayed. So, the last game seven they played against the Bruins, the last five won. Yeah. Okay. No, it's not. What do you remember about that? No. I guess Bruins, the thing that jumps out to my head from this group is Mitch Marner block and shots to go up to one at the end of a series. That's honestly the sticking memory in my crop. I can't remember him not being the same in that series after that. Yeah, I do. Well, it was also game just after game three of a series, so we know what happens though. Sorry. It's just the facts. Prove me wrong. Yeah. No, I'm sorry. I'll amend this take when the Leafs feel all the pressures of history in losing game seven in April to the Bruins by another five won score. But to me, yeah, that ghost element of it, when it comes to the Bruins, yeah, just because Brad Marcheons there and David Bassman. I don't. To your point, I don't think there's anybody, any team that possesses that over them right now. No, it was. Definitely not the lightning. Nope. Nope. Nope. And maybe you can say it is with the pants Panthers are just the best team in the NHL right now. Yeah. We'll see. Like they're going to play the Panthers twice in the last three weeks of the season or second last game. So you'll see a little something there as well. All right. Deadline day tomorrow. I can't wait to talk to everybody then. This has been the Fan Morning Show. Ben Anis, Brian Gunning, Sportsnet 5.9 of the Fan. Good morning. All right. [MUSIC PLAYING]
