[MUSIC] >> Fan, morning show, sports at 5.9 in the fan bed and a sprint gunning. So, I feel like I'm giving a lot of percentage chances tonight, guys. >> I'm Mr. Numbers today. >> You do know what the percentage of precipitation is going to be? Like, do you have that offhand? >> No. >> I think it's like 30, I checked this one. >> Yeah, I would have said higher, okay. >> Although, yesterday, I thought it was supposed to be an entirely like a wash out day. Turned out another pretty nice day, a little cloudy, but. >> I disagree, as I was standing in a rainstorm playing T-ball with my son outside. So, there you go. >> I disagree that it was not. >> When I was outside, it was nice. >> Okay, just tell me. >> Anyways, now that we're putting percentage chances on things, at least I am. Here's what I'm putting a percentage chance on, okay? First of all, it's 100%. >> Okay, whoa. >> I'm excited. >> And it's that Bradger living has another move in him. Like the Leafs are making another move. >> Yep. >> Now, the significance of that move, you can discuss ad nauseam, and I think we will with our next guest. And whether they should be shopping near the top of the pile, as opposed to the bottom, which feels more likely. But Bradger living basically said as much. He said, hey, we won't be able to plug every hole, because no team can, but we're going to try and plug holes. And clearly, the double retention on Ilya Labushkin with him making less than league minimum is part of that. But there's a lot of machinations that can happen, whether it's putting guys on waivers or maybe a roster player being sent out the other way, that they can, despite the cap friendly page only saying they have like 100 grand to spend at the deadline, they can make lots of things happen. They can free up lots of cash, and I think they will. They're adding at least one roster player before Friday at 3 p.m. >> Yeah, I agree with that. At first blush, I didn't know that the Labushkin move was clarifying that that would definitively be the case, because why wouldn't you throw a six round pick to give yourself the possibility of extra flexibility at the deadline? Like that is a low opportunity cost to give yourself that chance. But as we trend more and more towards this, just all of the scuttlebutt, yeah, I wholeheartedly believe he'll make at least one more as well. >> All right, time now for our insider, brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom, visit donvalleynorthlexus.com. Today's insider, Jason Bookel, a sports on hockey analyst, who you can follow on Twitter at pro hockey group and big week for at pro hockey group because he will be tweeting out his player cards and reports, all the players being traded this week. Jason Bookel joins us right now, how's it going, Jason? >> Good morning, fellas, good, yeah, let's hope that there's some more action towards the end of the week, but he feels like there's going to be more, doesn't there? >> Oh, yeah. And especially when it comes to the Leafs, I don't know if you disagree, but I just put it at 100% chance that Brad's reliving has another move in him before three o'clock on Friday. What do you think? >> Yeah, I believe that that's the case as well. I mean, he doesn't want to move that first round pick, for example. You know, he's got some other draft capital, especially with the three fifth rounders that he has, and I know that doesn't sound like much, but you know, you got a third and three fifths. There's a little bit of flexibility there. When I saw man to go off the board yesterday and the cost association with that, it kind of gave me a little bit of pause to think that there's an opportunity for Toronto out there somewhere with a partner to eat some money and potentially add to the group. So I'm with you. I don't think they're done. So it seems like Cowan is kind of, nobody's untradable. Wayne Gretzky was traded. Let's just start with that. But he feels as close to an untradable from kind of the Leafs prospect pick cupboard as possible. If you had to rank the first round pick in Frazier Minton, which of those is more likely to move at the deadline? And if you were tri-living, which of those would you be more kind of want to move? >> The first round pick, for sure. Yeah, Minton, Cowan, those guys are more valuable. Cowan, for sure. I'm throwing Minton in that equation as well. They're both more valuable for me right now than the Leafs first round pick in this draft cycle. And that's just because of the situation we find ourselves in with this draft class. Everybody gets in a little bit of a tizzy when they see giving up a first round pick. But I have to let our listeners understand that if it was Minton going out and set it up for a first round pick a couple of years down the road, we're going to be kicking ourselves in a different type of manner because the likelihood, I believe, given what I know about this draft class, the likelihood is that Minton's going to play out to be a better player than that first round pick. >> Yeah, and we've heard that from you kind of all year long, I don't know, feel free to correct me on the number. But somewhere around 20, there's just a drop off and the late end of the first round is not quite what you expect normally. I do want to drill down on the value of Minton right now because, you know, this was a player who he breaks camp with the team, and I think whether that changes the minds of anybody who's actually making a trade for him, it's certainly changed perception of what his value is. Then he's capped in a team Canada. All of a sudden that team doesn't play so well and he's got just 19 goals in a WHL season and it seems like there are people who are a little down on him. Where you add on Minton as a prospect and how much have you kind of vacillated on your opinion of him this year, like it seems in public perception, he's taken quite a bit of a nosedive. I just wonder if you think that is the case kind of across the league with talent evaluators. No, I don't believe that to be the case. I think that in a short window, he really caught lightning in a bottle. When he hit the Traverse City with the rookie group, he really stood out for his three things. His pace had improved, the way that he played the game, you know, when the team didn't have the puck, he was above the play, all the little things he was doing. He really stood out and then obviously he broke rookies, he went to the main camp and then of course he made the theme in short order. Let's not get misled though, like in my estimation, he's a three at the NHL level. So you know, just because you see something in a short window and you start to think, oh, maybe he's going to be a top six, a full-time top six, I don't believe that to be the case. I think he's a spot duty top six, but I think he's a solid three. And I'm okay with that, his play in Saskatoon in the NHL, let's see how it goes until the end of the year. This has been a year of several learning points, kind of teaching points, if you will, for Minton. And he's had a lot on his plate. So let's not forget his age, let's not forget the development cycle. Let's not over-hype this year. For me, he's a three, he's still training to be a solid three and I'm okay with that. So I do think, okay, well, I gave Roger living a hundred percent chance of making a move before Friday. I think it's close to a hundred percent that it's going to be a defenseman that he acquires, if not, you know, a forward as well and maybe a sentiment. But I think clearly you'd love to have, and in an ideal world, another right-hand shot defenseman. Now the guys that fit that mold that are under contract beyond this season, clearly you're giving up your first round pick for, and I don't know if Adam Larson is available, but David Sivard has been bandied about it a little bit as well. I mean, are you helping this team enough? If you're not giving up that first round pick as part of a deal for a defenseman? Great question. And I see you're associating the value with the player in return. I'm wondering, I'm wondering, you know, we're kind of walking a fine line, aren't we? Because I'm not so sure that the value, the associative value, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to kind of, I'm not contradicting myself. I just thought to put value on what the return is on an expiring contract, let's say a Sean Walker, somebody like that, you know, is he really worth that first round pick? I guess if you look at the way of the land with the Leafs again, and you associate it with, you know, where they think they can go and play offs, that's a tough call internally. I don't think David Sivard, I would love to have David Sivard in a trauma-apley uniform date. For that to happen, I think that, you know, it's going to come hell or high water for that to happen. I hate to let everybody down, but I don't think that that's going to happen. But I do see the value in trying to acquire a player like that. I thought that maybe they were shopping in the Bogojian waters, and now he's been extended in Minnesota. So, you know what, guys, there could be an overpayment here. It might look on the surface like there's an overpayment on the horizon. Time will tell here, but that's the problem they have with their lack of draft capital and certain slots. That's just their reality. So, I mean, ideally, I'd like to, you know, try and get Philly to bite on a third. The island is third, and then Calgary's fifth because Calgary's not going to make playoffs. I'd like them to bite on those two. And maybe, maybe I have to sweeten it with a, with a Nemo, you know what I mean, something like that to bring in a rental because I'm not so sure Nemo right now is going to plain out to be a full-time NHL player. So, risk reward here depends on how confident he is with the entire group. God, you were on fire this morning, Jason. I was literally just about to ask you, where are we at on Nemo love? Like, what is he as a prospect? Can you just fold it in to your last answer? That was perfect. We don't have to need to burn the question on it, on it there. But I do think that is another name and it's good to hear what kind of the, you know, perception of him is, I do want to go back to the trade we saw yesterday in, in Manta going for a second and a fourth, 50% of that is retention. Were you surprised at that? I mean, first things first, he just feels like he's born to be a golden knight in big skates like a knock or skates, fast as the wind, he's so strong, like, it just feels like he's going to fit in seamlessly there. But I look at a player and, you know, I know sometimes it's just the way the market pans out. But if that's a defense man that can kind of, you know, move up and down your pairs and give you solid minutes, I don't think it's a second and a fourth he's going for. And again, I get the Leafs couldn't have been in there just because of what they have available. But that felt like a really nice piece of business for the Golden Knights to me. Yeah, I think it's important for people to really absorb what you just said there. And there's a traditional overpayment for especially right shot defense when it's a trade deadline. And, you know, when you can even draft them and develop them at a certain level, a certain pedigree, then you like to try a whole lot of them. Guys like Anthony Manta, I'm not saying that he's not an anomaly, you know, because he's a huge human being, like, six, five, 235 pounds, but the associated value to pick him up compared to a right shot D at this time of year, the second and the fourth and then a 50% retention on the salary, like, that is a great deal for Vegas in terms of asset management and cost association, because now they still have a ton of cap room left to go and get somebody else. Now, listen, I'm uncomfortable talking about the Vegas thing at this time of year again with cap management and everything else. It just, it makes me itch a little bit for his parents, but it is what it is. And that's a nice pickup for them. Yeah, unfortunately for the Leafs, they haven't been able to take advantage in the same way, unless it's like Matt Murray, all of a sudden, is starting game one of a postseason series for the Leafs, which I think we could probably discount, but yeah, I'm probably not going to happen. So, defenseman, I think, is priority number one for Brad for Living. I wonder how you feel about picking up another sentiment, and that Max Domi led second line in particular, how you feel about, maybe, chemistry issues being impacted by replacing him, obviously, that that's not a perfect line. Where are you on Max Domi centering that second line? Well, I'm a little torn, I have to be honest, because the trend recently, obviously for Max, his play has improved exponentially compared to where we were, even a month and a half ago, right? We were kind of having those discussions of opportunity in Domi, and we needed more, well, right now I see the enthusiasm, I see some results, and I see some continuity there. Now having said that, is there a depth piece out there that might be able to help out and just kind of add another layer and give some flexibility? I'm talking about a carrot out of Anaheim, we could come on the cheap, and he's going to be physical, and he's going to win 54%, 55% of his draws, something like that. Those types of things, I see, I would love for the leaves to be shopping in the Adam Henry quarters. I'd love for that to happen. Is that going to happen? No. Is that exactly what they need? Absolutely. The guy can play center and the wing, but I don't see that part happening. So I see a depth, if anything, if it goes up front, it's going to be a depth piece, I don't think it really shuffles the deck per se, but time will tell. If the Leafs are looking at bringing in those depth pieces, be it on the blue line, be it up front, is the most important skill that they bring to the team being a good penalty killer? Because when I look at from a roster construction standpoint, it's not say they're a perfect team, far from it, but that is the most glaring hole to me is just they have had problems with penalty killing, and part of that's been goal tending, but part of it's been what's going on in front of the goalie and the kind of cross seam passes that they've been given up as well. How important from just kind of a team building perspective is it to give Keith another couple of tools in his toolbox when it comes to that aspect of the game? Absolutely important. Absolutely, really important. It's the hardest time of year, so Sheldon keep me to stay in with the other night when he bench knee-lantern for whatever that was, the eight minutes in the first period, whatever it was. But what he said after the game in his conference was he was straying outside the structure of the group and we're holding guys accountable, now we could have a whole different conversation about it, why is it taking this long for a guy like that to be held accountable for that? That's a whole different conversation, but here's my point. If you bring in a guy, call it a carrot, I don't care who it is, a depth guy, the three things you've got to understand at this time of year, does he skate well enough, does he thank the game, then does he ever let this compete? If you tick all three of those boxes off and now he can penalty kill on top of that, now we've got a guy who's going to do some heavy lifting in the trenches, hopefully I like a Sam Lafferty type, but the penalty killing, you need extra layers, guys, if they catch lightning in a bottle and go beyond the first round and go beyond the second round, even guys like that who are specialists, who do all those little tiny things, they're really, really important. So Monday didn't go so well, but yeah, it's gone very well for the Leafs recently. Is there a risk of upsetting what's worked for this Leafs team with an aggressive move before three o'clock on Friday? Oh, I don't know that there is, you know, again, they're walking a fine line because I understand the question, you know, like if they feel good about themselves, but there was also moments that we haven't felt so great about ourselves for stretches like every NHL team. So I think on balance, I think on balance, the room is always looking to the general manager. If they've done enough, if the team is done enough and the coaches earn the trust of upper management that he's getting all of he can out of this group, we need to go to another level. They're always wanting to add something else and Brad would go to the leadership group to have a brief discussion about it as well. This wouldn't just be like, you know, fly by night. We're going to go to the leadership group and say, we think we need this and this is, you know, what we're leaning and it's not like the CAPT is going to say yes or no, but it's good to have the communication when you have kind of a new body on the horizon entering the fold. I think I just got John Tavares to talk, that'd be impressive in their own right, just getting an answer out of them at all. That would be nice. Yeah. Maybe maybe they go to Riley. I don't know what it is there, but you know, I hear you. Yeah, I love every guy on this team and we're great, Brad. Thank you. It's kind of how that would that one feels like that would go. I want to ask you just about the kind of machinations of a deadline and how it works. I don't think this will be the case this year where one player is kind of holding everything up because it feels like the, if I'm going to look at the three kind of big pillars of this of Hanifin, Henrik, and Gunsell, it's like they all check very, very different boxes. But do you think one of those guys moving can spur other teams into action? Do you think it's going to be kind of quiet until one of those bigger names moves? How do you think the kind of timeline of things will work out regarding the bigger names at the top of the deadline list? Well, I really do believe that, well, Hanifin's situation, if you believe, you know, some of the rumors that are out there, i.e. Tampa Bay, they can fit them into the hole because of their LT situation, right? And that doesn't hold up anything there. What holds up things is that some of these guys, all these guys have, you know, some, I don't have to look up Hansell, but the other two guys have no moves or at least a 10 team trade type of thing in their contract. But having said all that, I don't think anything, I don't think those three guys hold it up because the team is looking for those guys, like they're putting their lure in the water there. Like they have a certain type of cap in mind. They have, you know, maybe they have, you know, they're flush with prospects or maybe not. I think everybody else underneath that is going to be battling out for role players. Just quickly, yeah, again, so does have a 12 team. No trade list. Well, there you go. 12. Okay, so, but you know what, he's a, that, to me, that feels so, a handful of it against will kind of feel like, but depending where they go, there could be a deal in the drawer type scenario, at least the conversation is going to be had before they land wherever they land. Yeah. Yeah. It does feel that way. As you mentioned earlier, your perception of Neamala is like maybe not even an NHL caliber defense man. You're not saying that that's the way the organization perceives him, but they might. When we're talking about dealing prospects, like how known is it between general managers? How an organization feels about their own prospect? Like how guarded is that a secret if like, because we talked earlier about the, the, the Blue Jays traded Austin Martin, a guy who was a top 10 pick for them in a deal for Jose burrios. And he turned into a bust and not said the Blue Jays knew that, but I'm sure there was an inkling of like, we're going to give this guy up and he's not going to turn into anything. How, how secretive or how known is the internal perception of prospects among, among organizations? Well, in my history, generally speaking, teams value their own people more than outsiders, value them. You know, when I was in Florida, I would always say to our guys specifically after we drafted them, but don't fall in love with your prospects. Like don't fall. This is part of the journey to get where you want to go. These are assets that hopefully, like those needles on a heck of a job in Florida, the staff that took over for Dale and myself and some of that. But if you, if you, if you took the time to take a look at all the assets that you traded out, like if our staff didn't stockpile some of those, for though he can move them over his kind of player, then it doesn't work. Don't fall in love with your prospects. Don't ever do that because it's part of the team building process that you have to get to where you got to go, hand them off the player development and off they go with it. So outsiders, outsiders, I think that it's a game guys, it's a, it's a tug of war. You know, they're going to try and devalue your guy, even though they want him. So they're telling you that they, you know, but at the same time, yeah, there's, there's that trap where you can overvalue your own. You keep him for too long. Maybe a Nick Robertson fits into that category doesn't mean like maybe like if you would have stayed healthy this whole time, maybe that's an example of a guy we held on to just a fraction too long and he could have had better value somewhere else. Well, hold on. What do you think his value would be? Would he be anything more than a throw in if you're a team that's kind of, you know, like I'll just pick one Philly who's there, but they're retooling, still trying to get things going. How much value and again, he's not going to be the pillar of a trade, but how much value would he have as a kind of secondary piece? That's a great example. I wonder how much Tortorilla looks at that and says, you know, that's like, fair, fair. Okay. So maybe literally any other team then. Yeah. So honestly, guys, I'm not comfortable with anything more. I still think there's upside. There's NHL games to be played. He's shown he can score, you know, at times at the NHL level. I'm not any more comfortable than a three or a four in the draft cycle for him because I think it's spot duty. It's not full time. Yeah. It could easily see scenario where he has gone before three o'clock on Friday. Jason, always appreciate the time. Thanks for this. Awesome guys. Have a great day. Have me. You too. Jason Buchalas, sport set hockey analyst, our insider brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom, visit Don Valley North Lexus.com. And again, you can find Jason on Twitter at pro hockey group. And this week, follow him there for player cards and reports. I don't like hearing that about Topi Niamola that like maybe not even an NHL caliber defense man. No, you don't. That's not what you what you want to hear. I also think I am now officially John Tortorella's second least favorite media member. No one's ever going to top that guy who had the Kevin Hayes cutter go che report. I think that guy like Tortorella is going to add his funeral, ask that that guy be insulted one last time. But it's like second on the list is me for suggesting that he would should coach Nick Robertson. Yeah, not his guy. Probably not. No offense to Nick Robertson and who honestly has made strides in all the stuff Tortorella would hate about him. He has made strides in that. And part of it is just the physical makeup. He's just not a large human being, right? His brother, they could have just shared it. It could have just like met somewhere in the middle. Yeah, both could be like 20 gold guys. Yeah. And listen, he he proved that he's NHL caliber and certainly like he's on the fringes of a roster for a team that has Stanley Cup aspirations. But talking about a team that isn't that clearly going to play in your top nine at the very least. Yeah. But yeah, are you pining at all for Nick Robertson watching Kelly Yarn craft take his spot with chance of Boris and Bobby McMancy's fine, right? Totally fine. It's fine. Can you see a scenario where like the least need a boost and it's like, well, Nick Robertson in there for game two tonight. Well, I don't know. They took him out of the lineup to put Andreas Johnson in in a game five when he hadn't played in a calendar year. So stranger things have happened every time I think of Nick Robertson. That's all I'm going to think about. And look, that's not the reason they lost that game. Still can't believe what a wild move that was to put a guy who hadn't. I thought it was what I thought it was wild that the Bruins started a goalie who hadn't played all playoff series or started all playoff series in game seven last year. That that bubble series against the jackets, them putting Andreas Johnson back from his knee injury that he'd missed again, a full calendar year. Yeah, go play game five, do or die. That'll work out well. Geez. Yeah, but they got to game five after what felt like, man, I we've mentioned it with Nick Caprios yesterday. It's like, oh, well, this, you got to go through the Bruins to finally win your first Stanley Cup in almost 60 years. You got to come back from down three against the Panthers to finally win your first Stanley Cup. You got to score the goals in which they did it. The end of game four and the empty never going off the side of the net and forcing it to a game five. That's exactly what you would see for a team on the verge of his. No, no, it's the Leafs. I'd love it to be different, nothing in this world. Like, it's actually scary high on the list. Nothing in this world would make me happier. I don't think that's going to happen. Okay, I shouldn't be this swayed by one little comment from a guy who knows so much about prospects. I don't know if you're going to be swayed by somebody that's. Yeah. So like, I guess the perception, hey, Tobey Niamola, no one was calling for him to be like, hey, let's kick. I mean, I guess maybe there were some people, but it didn't ever feel like there was a bubbling up of like Tobey Niamola this year is having the breakthrough year with the Marley's. This is it's happening for him, but I think he's still viewed by most Lee fans as a guy that's, yeah, I mean, next year at some point, like, should he be on the cost of being an NHL player? It feels now like he's well, like, how would you feel if Tobey Niamola is like the centerpiece of of a deal before three o'clock on Friday? I'm fine with it. I'm totally, totally okay with it. The first round, right hand shot defenseman, third round pick in the 2020 draft there for like, I, when I, when I look at him, I think it's a classic guy that much like all of the other kind of small-ish Leafs defenseman have had the opportunity to, he's going to get his feet wet in the same way Sandin did, he's going to get his feet wet in the same way Lillegrind did. And guess what? Maybe one day one of those guys pans out, but I think it's probably going to go more this way than not, trade them all. They, blue chip prospects in the NHL, generally speaking, come through and come through can mean different things like Matthew and I's wasn't a blue chip prospect when he got drafted. He became one in college and he is having a fine start to his NHL career. But the guys who are truly blue chip come through and everybody else in hockey is such a, won't say it's such a craps you, but there's just so much variance and you need for a guy like Niamla, who's his partner going to be? If his partner is one guy with the Leafs, he's going to look a certain way. And if he goes to some market that's quieter and we don't pick over every mistake he makes and he has the right partner, look at what you're going to see out of him. But I'd be fine, fine, fine, moving on from him. It's like, you want to throw, and I realized that it has to be more. But if you're a rebuilding-ish team, why wouldn't you want Flyer on a Niamla, Nick Robertson, include him both in there? Honestly. Get him all of that. That's the idea why I thought it was the first round pick. But yeah, the point, well, you know why actually this point does stand is because the reason why is because the Leafs have had so few prospects that were not, hey, he's here, he's going to be in the top six right away. There's been none, there's been no middle ground prospects. So a guy like Niamla, he's just supposed to be a guy, you're not even supposed to think about him. It's supposed to be a flittering thought in the back of your mind. He's not supposed to be the third most valuable prospect in the org. And he is right now. Part of that is, yeah, the position he plays in the hand with which he shoots, right? Yeah. The weirdo draft to be sure as the Leafs, of course, taking Rodeon Amorov 15th overall, which, yeah, was a tragic scenario. But yeah, no, this is... They're cursed. God. Yeah. But going back, last thing on this before we take a break and Jason boy, how difficult that must be for the guys that actually spend their entire careers investing into the knowledge about the prospects and tracking guys when they're teenagers and going to the wall telling their organization to draft them that, hey, like sometimes you got to kill your babies. Sometimes you got to... Sometimes you got to... You do it. You just got to cut the cord and these prospects, some of them make the NHL, but some of them, you build them up and you trade them away and you got to send them out the door and it's hard not to value your own assets more than others because, yeah, you just know them more, but it's just God. You know, instead of like, hey, what could Easton Cowan become? That's what I know. Like the NHL that he is currently producing at the NHL level, Easton Cowan is a different deal because... God, we all know he's going to be... Yeah, this ain't gonna compare him to Darcy Tucker, so he cannot be moved. All right. Fraser Minton. Oh, well, him. Get him out of here. Yeah. Oh, Fraser Minton could be, I don't know, pick your middle six center du jour. Yeah. He could be that. Yeah. Okay. Adam Henrik is going to help your team today. Yep. It's just for one season, but yeah, flag fly forever. Yeah, they do. Well, that is the part that has to be overstated this of all is if you just go win, none of it matters. Right. Fraser Minton can become Adam Henrik and you'd glad he could become Philip Forsberg. Right. If the Martin, you're at trade for Philip Forsberg that the capital is made, if that was the year they win the cup, guess what? Everybody's thrilled. Nobody talks about it. Just me because I bring it up all the time for some reason. That's your... It's my hobby horse. It is. Oh, at deadline day, that's the one I hold on to like a sweet baby because it's just so terrifying. Right. Like that's the nightmare scenario, a very middling middle six guy in here at going for superstar in Forsberg. It's not Nick Felino going for a first round pick and then getting injured and never getting the full value of him in a postseason series. And the thing that bothers me only about this is that he so badly felt like he needed to do something for the team that he made Wayne Simmons give him the Corey Perry fight. Right. I think I have to have that fight. And it's like, I don't know. Wayne Simmons could beat the breaks off of him. And it doesn't matter. Perry didn't throw a punch in the fight. He just took his beating like a man. But that was the one. That would just prove positive how it was going. He's like, I need this. I need to do something. Please. All right. Speaking of prospects, Ricky Tiedemann is one. Hey, like Ricky Tiedemann could imagine what he could be. But yeah, it could be anything even this major league baseball player. Yeah. I would have included him in a trade for one soda and a heartbeat. I had other business though. Yeah. We'll talk to Keegan Matheson of MLB.com next to the fan morning show continues. Ben Ennis Brent Gunning sports at five ninety the fan. Diving deep into leaps, rafters, J's and NFL, the JD Bunk is podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Good morning show sports at five ninety the fan Ben Ennis Brent Gunning and, you know, the typical Wednesday day off and Dunedin for the Blue Jays today. Okay. If you tell me, I don't know. It's typical. No, it's not. I don't know. It seems like a weird time to have an off day in spring training, but I shouldn't have any like they got so many guys that could just give a couple guys an off day and still have like, you know, 500 guys poking around. Yeah. Here's my guess though. Also is that it's an off day in that they're not playing any fake games, but they're playing a more like fake double fake games like those like like double secret double secret fake games against the seventeen year olds that lit up Alec Minnell. Yeah. Or against each other at a backfield in Dunedin. They will resume a great for league action tomorrow at Lakeland night game against the Tigers and then three weeks from tomorrow regular season action in Tampa against the race. Let's talk to Keegan Matheson of MLB dot com. Do you have the day off today? What's your deal? I do. I mean, hearing the three weeks of this might have taken the edge off. Guys, I've really lost track. So hearing three weeks was a bit of a blow to the old ego there that was tough. I'm sorry to do that to you. More logistic questions then because, you know, there's a lot of baseball and we'll get to it eventually. Do we prefer day or night spring training games? What does that do to your day? I like the daytime guys. It's a nice little schedule. You get up early. We do clubhouse at like eight, nine o'clock. You get to the game, a one o'clock game. Do I see the ninth inning of every game? Maybe not. No. And then you're back to the beach. You've got a full evening to do something with the night games. I'm a morning guy, which is a really bad fit for the life I've chosen as a baseball writer. But I do like the afternoon routine. Those night ones are a bit weird, especially when you are also making a drive down to one of Florida's many other beautiful cities, just to watch it. All right. So what does a young man do in beautiful Clearwater on a day off? You go visit the church of Scientology? What's your day today? I do that most other days. So I think today I'm going to take a day off, but we've big plans down here. I've got my girlfriend down for the week. We're going to start out of Bob Evans Fellows, a nice big country American breakfast to start today. Oh, yeah. Do some kind of bum around Clearwater for a bit back to Clearwater Beach where I stay. A little bit of time on the beach, but might not even think about baseball much today. I'll think about baseball for 10 minutes, but I'll try to try to remove it from my brain. But it's a welcome day to probably laundry too. You know, when you're down here this long, you need to make real life consideration. Sure. Another layer of darkness. But yeah. Yeah. Okay. Who cares about the baseball? We'll get to maybe or maybe not. But I've spent a lot of time in the United States. I'm married to an American. I've been to Texas, which is the United States. Okay. Like let's not get it. I don't think they have an A when they spell it. It's just America. America. I've never been to a Bob Evans. Like I've been to many of Denny's in my day, but like tell me, tell me a little bit about Bob Evans. Yeah. Like I'm not a sponsor because they're not, to my knowledge, not in this country. Bob Evans is a strong place. It's your classic big highway side American diner. The server is probably going to call you darling. Oh, I love it. I think a lot of menu items have the word country in it. There is an appetizer I'm particularly excited for today, fellas. I believe it's called Blue Ribbon Bacon and it's just a bucket of candy bacon. No, shut up. He found a more American place name where you ever been a bucket of bacon. Come on. That is so good. How am I supposed to continue with my day? We don't have three weeks of work left today, but a functioning heart is how you continue. Anything else on baseball related brand you got or I'm good. I don't need to know what like I don't need to know if you're like a pods guy when you do laundry or you got the liquid detergent. I think we can leave that alone so we can move on to baseball. All right. All right. All right. All right. Let's start with, I guess, Ricky Tiedeman because, you know, the spring training games are interesting for one thing for me and one thing only and it's like getting a chance to see the prospects. And for the first time when we saw Ricky Tiedeman last year, that was exhilarating and it was like the last time because he maybe threw too hot in that game. Maybe overdid it a little bit and he's apparently put on an incredible amount of weight, like good weight, the spring training and I know he had the setback with the leg injury, but then good is not an arm thing and apparently is still looked good in some of the backfield stuff that he has done. What is like the most optimistic ETA for Ricky Tiedeman? Yeah. Well, with Tiedeman when we look at the next week here, it's looking like about seven days from now as the fastest car in America drives by me five to seven days from now. Maybe later this weekend of the weekend, he could be back in game action. Now, game action means different things than it did 10 years ago in spring. That could be a great fruit league game or it could mean his own hitters. But same thing, essentially for Ricky Tiedeman, as long as he's facing live hitters, that's good. And Ben, you mentioned last year, like I remember back to that outing he had. Awesome. Touch 99 made heavy bias look ridiculous and that's exactly why you watch spring training. It's an opportunity to dream on a guy and Tiedeman, man, when he's healthy, he looks somehow better. This year, I watched his live the other day, he froze IKF. He had Dalton Varchos swinging at a slider that made me flinch. It was amazing. But like a lot of young pitchers, he is testing what the human body is capable of, I think, at this point. So more than any player in this whole organization, health matters for Ricky Tiedeman because if he is healthy, his talent is absolutely ridiculous. And I think he's got, let's call it 110-ish innings to play with this year. So if you can get a good chunk of those with the Blue Jays, that's often exciting. And at a certain point this year, if he's healthy, which I got to keep saying, the Blue Jays look at their roster and say, "Ricky Tiedeman's one of our 13 best pitchers, so he needs to be here." Here, I can just give you my perspective. Like the Nate Pearson experience has colored my view on the player in that I can't love like that again, right? And because we know how this generally works for people, as you mentioned, like the human body not designed to throw 100 miles an hour, it's incredible if you can do it for any period of time, the idea that you can do it over like a 10, 15-year career, probably not likely. I wonder how the Pearson situation, maybe not the Pearson situation explicitly, but like how the idea of that mindset impacts the Blue Jays decision making with the player. Because on the one hand, it's like you got to protect him because you don't want him to get hurt. But on the other hand, he's going to get hurt. So let's see the bullets at the major league level. Yeah, make hay while the sun shines if he's ready. You got to get it while you can. These pitching prospects in particular do not last forever. And even beyond Pearson, guys, I try to do it myself every once in a while. I'll go on to our pipeline prospect rankings. I'll pull up 2007, 2013. It's a really quick lesson that this is a very inexact science. You're seeing names you don't remember at all. So a pitcher like Tiedemann, I think, is fascinating because it's that prospect problem where do you rush him up and get it while you can? Do you try to make him a perfectly polished prospect? We have seen the Blue Jays be aggressive with promotions in recent years. I think back to a little guy like Alejandro Kirk, when he came up, he was young and fresh. He was not experienced. With pitchers, we don't have as many examples because they haven't developed as many pitchers on the high end, but Tiedemann's stuff is absolutely ready, period. It is ready for the big leagues. It's just about getting him into that routine, I guess, which is the buzzword of the spring that I try to figure out what it means. But you want him to get into a bit of a cycle where he's had three, four, five starts in a row without a hamstring or an elbow or anything flaring up where he's feeling normal. And there are no external variables. He's not trying to bounce back or work around anything. As long as he's feeling normal by, let's say, May, he's got to be one of your 13 best pitchers, I think. It's just a matter of how many innings he has. Yeah, I think, and especially with you putting the limit there, and again, it's an inexact science, but 100, 110, somewhere in and around there, you do have to be careful. But I wonder, I'm kind of of two minds to this, is that what is more likely to inform their decision with, with Tiedemann, is it the health of the staff that we're seeing now? I mean, Gosman and the Manoa with the cranky shoulder and, you know, maybe those things end up fixing themselves within the tail end of camp and it's not looking as dire. But also, you look at what happened with Manoa and I don't think he had the year he had last year because he was rushed too soon, but it's just the ups and downs of a young pitcher. Like, what do you think is more likely to inform they're not decision coming out of camp? Because that's been made. The decision of how they handle him this year, is it the health of the rotation, or is it kind of what happened with Manoa and the cautionary tail there? Yeah, the health is a big factor and the Blue Jays are lucky this isn't last year when they did not have much depth at all. Now they're in a more fortunate position where they have Bowden Francis, who I like a ton. Mitch White looks better. They have Yari El Rodriguez building up, eventually, Chad Dallas is kind of a cool factor in all of this. Great name, just an incredible name. Great name. A guy named Chad Dallas who walks in on his start day with a mustache and wearing Lee Intimidator, a Dale Earnhardt number three pitcher. Give me a break. This is what this is what spring training is about. That guy should be eating a bucket of bacon is what it sounds like he should be doing. Literally, I might see him in a couple of minutes, but that depth, guys, makes this so much easier, at least, on the Blue Jays. They don't need to force it. They can go to someone else first, but Manoa has to be a lesson as well because he ramped up his workload real quick. Not only are these guys doing stuff that the human body is just flat out, not designed to do, they're doing more of it really quickly. Is Ricky Tiamen going to be 190 inning guy in his career? Probably not. But can he have that more a few years ago, Blake Snell type where it's shorter outings, but really electric? Yeah, maybe that's more comfortable. I think that the rotation health right now, which is getting scary, that's got to impact it a bit, but not as much as it would have in past years, which is good news. You don't want to get a guy there too quick, too much. Yeah, and Kevin Gossman's not injured, okay. That's what I keep reading. He's not injured. They're not calling it an injury. It's just like, I don't know, he's not feeling so great. And yeah, cranky shoulder for Alec Manoa, nothing to see here. It's fine. Obviously, the Blue Jays are only going to go as far as the rotation takes him. It feels like unless there's a total reversal of fortune offensively, which I guess could happen. Like, maybe we do see 2021 Vlad. We can't discount it. I think it's more likely than not that it's a pretty similar offense to the one we had a season ago, especially considering some of the departures and especially considering what we're likely looking at at third base more often than not. What if IKF, like, what if this team can't score? Like they just can't score and maybe the rotation's taken a step back or maybe they're still as good, but like the offense can't even leap over that very low bar and they're not getting enough offense at third base. What is the likely scenario with that position if they're not getting enough offense? Yeah, there's a certain point where just the defense and versatility isn't enough. And the Blue Jays have seven guys who are in that depth position, but depth for the sake of depth doesn't get you very far. The team needs upside offensively, period. So at third base, you can pivot mid-season if you like. There are guys like, let's say, Domino Parmigiani, I think he's a number 14 prospect. And if you're going to be part of the depth, you need to have a thing that you do well. Parmigiani hits lefties really well and hits for power. That's a thing. You have Addison Barger, who has power upside, huge arm. He's the just Brett Lorry, Red Bull, Max Efert, I think people will like Barger, but there's some power. There's something to look at there. Arelvis Martinez, their number two prospect is he's a little more second base right now, but when you look at these prospects, yeah, a couple of them are going to flop completely. But when you're talking about three or four or five of them all at the same time, that's the sweet spot. You just need one of them to click. And every once in a while, you'll find that extra Davis Schneider. I think Parmigiani's a good candidate to be that this year. But this lineup does need that offense to improve. Because if you're going to play the pitching and defense game, you have to be perfect. To win three, two, four, three, you need to be flawless. But when you have some power, you can screw up a few times and that hit a home run. And I forget about those screw ups and I'm writing a story about a home run and a seven to four win really quick. So I think more power is is really the key to all of this. The prospects can offer that, but it's a matter of pointing at the right guy at the right time. They can be pretty unpredictable. All right. Last one. David Schneider, obviously an incredible debut season in about the month's worth of games that he played at the major league level last season, he gets off to that insane started at Fenway Park and then, you know, he's, he's keeps starting games and then like a little cool off. And then all of a sudden he doesn't play for a week. And it felt like the organization was like almost waiting for him to, to pumpkin eyes. I wonder what, what the leash is on him. Like does the organization like, yeah, David Schneider, we got a, he's got to break camp with this team considering what he did in 30 games, but they are ready to pull the plug or do they believe they have something there? He better break camp with this team. I think at this point, Schneider represents that upside who you can almost still consider him a prospect. Guys, I think he was just a few days of service time beyond prospect status for us, which I was grateful for because I didn't know where to rank this guy. But yeah, Schneider represents so much of what they need, which is pole power, hitting the ball in the air hard and having an identity, you know, kind of like Danny Johnson, he's a guy who knows his identity. He's going to pull the ball in the air, look for power. And there will be some empty stretches, sure. But I think Schneider is someone who at this point, if it's going to fall apart, at least let him go out there and show it to you. If pitchers are going to hammer him a different way with those high fast balls, try to identify weaknesses, I think the run he had last year and what that did to this team, he's earned a shot to go out there and try it again. You know, he represents so much of what this team needs. I think that out of the gates, seeing him as the majority share second baseman makes a lot of sense. And if he can play a little bit of left field, just competently, you do not need to be the best of all time, but just competently, that's a huge addition because then you can start playing those lefty, righty matchup lineups even more, which I think the team's really set up for. But Schneider is a guy who I don't think should be competing for a job too much as long as he doesn't go for a billion in camp. And he represents a lot of what this team needs. Yeah. What you need is bacon and a big bucket of it. So, so I'm going to let you do that now. See you, Keegan. You got it, fellas. Take care. See you Keegan, Madison, MLB.com. So we couldn't be at the same one he's at, but a 57 minute drive from my house is the closest Bob Evans. Really? Where's that Buffalo? Yeah. Okay. So if we wanted to, bucket of bacon could have our name on it, could make a whole day of it. We could bring the kids next time the Leafs are going to lose in Buffalo. Yeah. Yeah, it sounds terrible. The bacon part sounds good. It's just you and I spend enough time together. Yeah. No. Okay. The, I love bacon as much as the next guy. I don't know if I've ever had candied bacon. Oh, I've, I don't like, it's just like you, like you put some sugar on it. I've done it with like maple syrup where you cook it in the pan when you just pour maple syrup in the pan as you're cooking it. Gets kind of caramelized. I don't like my sweet and savory mix. Okay. Well, then don't. Or salty. Sweet. That's not true. That's not lied. Popcorn. Right. So stop lying. Meat. I don't like sweet meat. It's good. I'm telling you. It's a pain to clean up, which is why someone else should make it for you. Yeah. I've definitely like made bacon. Yeah. Bob Evans should make it for you or whoever's working in the kitchen because I bet it's not Bob. I feel like he's moved up the pecking order a little bit there. Yeah. Maybe a little bit. Yeah. You probably don't go to a Bob Evans and Bob doesn't say, how's your meal going? I don't know. Dave Thomas used to do it at Wendy's. Yeah. According to commercials. Yeah. All right, yeah. Blue Jays. Okay. No, like this is it. The prospects are all you should care about, honestly. And I know Keegan mentioned Mitch White in there. Like that's the hey, maybe in a world of limitless possibilities with Mitch White throwing 99. Yeah. He's a positive like above average depth piece for the Blue Jays in the rotation. I have less time for that story. Mm-hmm. The best shape in my life. Right. That I do for the prospect, like seeing them for the first time, of course, who doesn't remember that first start for Ricky team. But who doesn't remember Nate Pearson the first time you got to see him throw in a spring training game? How exciting that was. And then shortly thereafter, how not exciting it was. Or Alec Manoa for all that matter. Remember, he and Semyon Woods Richardson, both pitched against the Yankees in Tampa, where they had some legit major leaguers in that game. I think he struck out Aaron Judge in that game. He also made his major league debut against the Yankees. So yeah, it's not an apples to apples comparison when you get performances during spring training, but there have been recent examples of guys looking pretty damn good as young players trying to establish themselves and that being a thing. And I, you know, fingers crossed again, health is the most important thing when it comes to Ricky Tiedemann. But by all accounts, the stuff is there. Yeah, it seems it seems electric. I was a little concerned about adding all that muscle. How does that affect pliability? Clearly not at all. It seems to be working out pretty, pretty well for him. It's always a interesting thing with a pitcher specifically when there's a body transformation. There's just the mechanics are so intertwined with everything there. So I think that is incredible to see that you have a guy getting stronger and it's not affecting him in any kind of negative way because we have to see that in the past guys bulk up too much and it's just not the way you want to go. Yeah, I'm not crazy enough to advocate for him starting the season with the Blue Jays. But if he starts in Buffalo and blows the door off and a couple of starts, he better be on Blue Jays roster in May. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. All right. That's been the fan morning show, Ben, and I sprint gunning 4.5 on a fan. Good morning. [MUSIC]
