(upbeat music) - Good morning, Joe Sport there, 5.9 in the fan, man, man, and his friend, Gunning. It's Wednesday. It feels like a Tuesday for me. - You got something to say to me? - Good morning. - Thank you. - God. Pull it out of you some days. - Yeah, that's a good morning. It's a good day. It's a good morning. - Agreed. - Yeah, yeah, it feels like Tuesday for me. I'm all masked up coming off vacation for you. This is your third day of the week. So you got no problems today. - No, no, and again, it's like Monday. Monday was like, it was a work day, but it was also a day of vacation 'cause you weren't here. So me and Matt Marques, you just talked about Matt Rempe, punching guys in the face for three hours. You would have gladly done it for, I think, two, but you would have, like, the professional you are. Could we mix in another topic here? And then I would have turned into Rempe, and just started going at you. I don't know how well that would have gone. I'm not gonna, we're not gonna litigate the fight between us 'cause whenever we start litigating things, it just takes us completely, of course, like who's cooler, who's not, so. - But I will say that once you raise that specter, I'm thinking, I mean, you obviously have the reach advantage. - Yeah, it's actually, yeah, I mean, I got the reach, but I also, this is a big tenant of mine is a lot of times in fights just the madder guy wins, and I don't know, I'm not that mad right now. - No, you get mad at things. Oh, that's interesting. Like, who gets madder at, you've seen me pretty mad at times. - We're just talking about that one with a guy, I feel. - I can get pretty mad, also, you know what I think is one of the differentiating factors, is that, okay, you have a child, and dad's strength is real because you spend a lot of time picking up small children, right? Like, your arms just physically do get stronger having children. - I spent 15 minutes last night hurling 46 pounds across a bedroom, so yeah, I got ya. - But my children are bigger, and I have two of them. So, like, I'm doing twice the amount of lifts. - You have more to live for? (laughing) - Oh, I see, yeah, like, if we're fighting to the death? - Yeah, like, I'm not saying that, I'm just saying. It's like, if you have to get to that reserve, you do have more to live for. You have a big head, maybe that means you got a good chin. Like, you got a good, you got a strong chin. - I'm giving you a compliment there, you got a strong jaw. - I've never been knocked out before, I've never been knocked out. - I've seen stars before, but I've never actually lost consciousness. - Never, okay, I can't definitively say lost consciousness, but I do remember one night in university, all the fellows were having-- - Well, that's different. - Well, we all have a great time, and then I just remember being back in res with blood all over my shirt, and I'm like, so did I, like, did I black out, like, again, still to this day, we don't know what happened, so, I don't know, maybe, maybe not, I guess, is what I'm getting at there. - Okay, I would just say, and take this as a compliment, because I'm not saying definitively that-- - Thank you. - I think I would be, I think it would be the betting favorite. - Okay. - I'm not saying that that's the smart money, though, maybe you want, like, the underdog with the reach advantage, like I said. - Yeah, I don't think I'd be the betting favorite of anyone in a fight, because the thing is, is like, we'd kind of touched on it there, is that the will to live. - Yeah. - I have long been a person who it's like, there's no, they're never gonna tell the story about me of, like, and he fought tooth and nail through disease. - No, there's certainly, like, a part of the fight where you're like, yeah, I guess it's not going so well. All right. - It's like drowning. It's just like, here we go, down she goes. - Yeah. - I don't know how we got. God, we're supposed to, this is super, behind the scenes, but we're doing it now. We're gonna talk to this UFC guy later on the show today, T.F.D. can fight. - No, we're not, we're gonna talk to him live tomorrow at 6.30 AM. - Okay, we're gonna talk to him. - And I now wish it was over Zoom, so he could give us the fight breakdown. - Oh, okay. - Of which one of us would win, 'cause that would be, that'd be great. - We should email him our best pictures, shirtless pictures of ourselves. - Oh, you're winning there. - I can tell you, shirtless is not a great look for your guy. He'd just right away be like, I'm gonna take the guy with better hair. I think this one will do. - I think I have a segue to sports here. - Okay. - I mean, we've been talking, combat sports is sport. - I think the Islanders have the will to live. - Look at you, good job. - Okay. Four consecutive victories over opposition that ain't no pushovers, right? Win in overtime in Dallas. Win on the road in Detroit. That big win over the weekend against the Bruins. And then yesterday, four, two over a Blues team that's also battling to get into the playoff picture in the Western Conference. Here they are, creeping ever closer to the Tampa Bay Lightning in the Eastern Conference wildcard race. They're four points back, but with two games in hand, the Patrick Waugh thing might actually be happening here. Hey, is this an obvious question for me? It is, like, who would you prefer in the playoffs? Like, if you had your druthers, maybe from a narrative perspective, from an entertainment perspective, not a, hey, who do the Leafs match up better against? Because that's like down the road. And at that point, they've won rounds, you would think. But yeah, who do you prefer in the playoffs? The Islanders, the Lightning, I guess they're also four points back of the Flyers in the Metro, and they have two games in hand on them. Like, like, given your druthers, who would you rather see in the Eastern Conference playoffs? Yeah, the Islanders are, they're weird, 'cause from a storyline narrative perspective, all over it, the idea of Patrick Waugh just being a leader of men. And again, I cannot get over the clip of him running his first practice, not using a whistle, but just talking about dad strength, doing that good dad whistle, like, I can't do it, but like get over it with the two. He wasn't even using fingers. It was just like, how do you do that? It must be a French-Canadian thing, I don't know, but it was impressive, but from a narrative perspective, yes, I would like to see that. But you know what else is a sexy narrative? And everyone out there listening, like, plug your ears. It's the Tampa Lightning as like, you know, Frankenstein's monster limping around and having some zombie version of themselves. That's a sexy narrative of Stephen Stamkos, potentially one like, I want to be clear. From a Leafs perspective, kill the monster, have it dead and gone, don't make it be part of this, but from a narrative perspective, how can you sit there and say it's not incredibly sexy to have the lightning back in? - I said not from a leaf perspective, but now we're doing it. - But no, but now that you raised it, it's like, do you really, I mean, they did slay the monster last year in six games. And since then, Andre Vasaleski's been worse. Like they beat him soundly in six games. The Leafs were not the better team in an overall sense in the six games, whatever, scoreboard, right? Ilya Sorokin, I think scares me a lot more than Andre Vasaleski in this Tampa Bay Lightning team. Like, okay, now, I said again, we weren't going to do it because it's like down the road. But yeah, if you are looking at a team that you'd rather face in the playoffs, to me, it's the lightning. - I am not, okay, maybe this is the we want Boston and ending up with Florida of it all. But I am not going to raise my hand and say, Nikita Kucharov, Brayden Point, Victor Hedman, give me some of that. That's the problem. Like, all the points you made make a ton of sense. And honestly, the way the Islanders are built, that is a kind of classic team that's given the Leafs problems of not a lot of star power. Scrappy team can kind of hold the game in their kind of game state for a long time. Forts the Leafs to kind of play a safer game that maybe they don't necessarily want to play. So I understand the argument you're making. I just cannot sit there and say, no, no, you'd rather go against the guy who's going to run away with the scoring title in Kucharov and going to potentially be an MVP this year and Brayden Point, Leaf killer a billion times over. So yes, longer in the tooth, maybe don't have it still anymore. Vasholevsky, not maybe, not what he once was. And Sorokin is the scarier goalie. But man, that is just still such a terrifying proposition. And let me actually wibble with that. It's not terrifying proposition. It's just the idea of a team that knows how to win. They know how to play in playoffs. And some of the Islanders have been there, but there's been a lot of turnover from that team that went to kind of back-to-back final force as well. - For sure. It's weird, like the both playoff races are very bizarre. I mean, a lot can happen here and 20 games is still a long runway for somebody to make a run, but it does feel like, okay, the Islanders are the team most likely to be battling to get in that's on the outside, looking in right now in the Eastern Cup. It feels like the West is wrapped up. Like it does feel, and I know that's on the strength of the Preds have that incredible run to get into a wild card spot, but boy, you look at the separation between them and the Blues and it being six points and the Blues only having a game in hand and behind them. It's like the Kraken who should be selling off, although every indication is they're gonna try and hold on to their Blue Liners with terms still left on their deal. - It's a weird scenario and I know that, hey, Lindy Ruff was just fired and the Devils, I guess, are not pulled in up shop, but if you think the Penguins are done, Devils are tied with them in points. Penguins have two games in hand on them. They're gonna trade Jake Genslett feels like by the end of today. Yeah, it's weird, like it does feel like there's like a lack of drama as far as the bubble teams and it's the Islanders are our only hope. - Man, what a weird world to have it be that the Islanders are, in fact, the only hope. And you're right and this kind of goes against what was the purpose of this wild card and the new playoff formatted. You know, I suppose the idea of when it's one for eight, you would have had a similar setup, but it does kind of remove the drama from it. I know I don't want to get too astray from this conversation, but you mentioned the Devils there and we'll play a quick version of everyone's favorite game, but what about the Leafs? Just once again, and I know no one wants to hear it when you're in the thick of it, but the Devils are proof positive of why this Leafs run has been, again, it's going to wince a little bit so impressive. They have never had the year where this has happened, where they just completely fall flat on their face. Now, I know some people are going to go to the bubble season and say it was going to happen, but it never has. So that's the thing that jumps out to me about-- - A hundred percent. - I mean, even the Oilers have had that season. - Right, and again, you can't sit here and say it's a lack of talent. Yeah, there's nobody who can play a goal for them, but Lord knows the Leafs have had bad goal tending in times during this run. - In an overall sense this season have had bad goal tending. - You're right, right, exactly. Like, look at what they've been through at Samsung. Martin Jones has been holding the fort for them. So, yeah, the lack of drama is concerning there. It's just, it still continues to pain me the way this has gone with the Penguins. You know, it felt like they had their moment now. They're actually a point behind the caps, which just kind of puts proof positive of how dead and gone that season is. - Right. - Man, it's just sad, honestly. I know we've all picked it to death and we'll have more conversations about Gunsell when the trade actually happens here, but it just continues to be so sad to me what is happening in Pittsburgh. - Yeah, to the point about the Leafs having the bad goal tending season, their team save percentage is still under 900. It's 899 this season. They're behind the Anaheim Ducks. - Okay. - All right, it's not good. 10th from the bottom. - Yeah, but that's probably all, it's probably all buoyed by that 192 save performance that doe style made against the Leafs. - Was he as good in Toronto? No, not so much. - Not quite as good. - Funny how that works. - Oilers, Bruins, baby. Stanley Cup finals preview last night as well. And as much as the overwhelming take in Toronto after the regulation loss against the Bruins, we'll see. That's how you beat the Leafs in the postseason, not that anyone needed more events. Like we have lots, we know. We're good. I'm sure in Edmonton, they're like, okay, this is a team that is actually created for playoff success. And we faced a team that is playoff hardened and guess what? We can play a low scoring game against them and win. - So it's interesting. That is my take as well from a distance, but if we're going to just switch the sweaters of the team that won the game last night and they're not the Oilers, they're the Leafs. And we'd say, well, I don't know, Boston's coming off and back to back. You have to have Ryan Nugenthop can save the game for you by stopping an empty net or basically, you have to have Zach Hyman or I still don't know that they figured out who got credit for that goal at the end of the game, tie it up. And oh, Shocker, you win a skills contest to beat Boston. You're not going to have any of those in the playoffs. So I don't actually agree with that, but that would be the take from a lot of people. If that exact game played out for the Leafs, then oh, you sit around, you play patty cake and then you try to win it all and turning it on in the last five minutes. That's not what happened. You, that is a good win from the Oilers, but you have to realize the way we kind of talk about it when you're so hyper focused on one team. So it is, that was the, that was the thing that I noticed kind of coming out of it. Was a lot of people saying similar things of, look at that, low scoring game, tight skinner, making big saves, all true. But it's also true that you needed extra time and a goal in the dying seconds after stopping an empty net or to beat a team that's playing in the back half of the back to back. - Buddy, you're speaking my language. - Yeah. - Leafs had two posts and had to clear it off the goal line. Look, it looks a little different. - Boy, does it. - Oh, and the ref anytime a Leafs skill player had the puck in the offensive zone. They won it out of every three times. They blew the whistle for fun. - Yeah, that's good times. Leafs back to that action tonight, playing the first half of back to backs. They got that second game against the Bruins. Final game of the regular season series tomorrow night. But tonight, a rematch against the Buffalo Sabres. It's coach of Bank Arena. - It's a battle for your child's affection. They need to show them they can beat this team. - At last check in Buffalo, back before Christmas to December 21st, and a last second decision to take my child across the border to the Queen City to watch his beloved Toronto Maple Leafs are getting their heads caved in 9-3. And Ilya Sampsonov was, you know, staring down the barrel of maybe his career being over, it felt like. And it was shortly thereafter that he was demoted to the AHL. But since then, he's resurrected himself quite nicely. Last check on Saturday was putting forth his maybe best effort of the season in a win over the Rangers. It feels like it's going to be Sampsonov tonight considering Joe All got the start against the Bruins and the back to back. And if we're alternating starts here, if we're, I guess we can't say we're doing a meritocracy thing because then Sampsonov would have gotten the start against the Bruins two days ago. But it does feel like it's Sampsonov tonight. Let's do a poll here at this point in the season. And yes, I'll raise my hand before you are, before you mention it. No, I wasn't going to do it, I've said it enough. We've done this before at various points in the season. And I did at one point, right, Martin Jones is having a better than 50% chance of starting game one of the postseason. And I'd stand by that take in the moment. It's significantly less than 50% now. >> Yeah. >> All right. >> Agent like milk. Give your percentage chance of each goalie. >> Elliot Sampsonov, Joseph Wall, starting game one of the postseason today. >> Okay, I want to preface this with the real answer is it's 50/50 because it's goal tenders in the NHL. And who knows, that is the real answer to this question. But that's no fun. So I am going to say it is a 65% chance Joe Wall is your game one. >> Wow, you really feel that way after the game was on Saturday. 'Cause like it's in the moment, it's a small say hold on. >> You asking me, are you asking me who I'm putting in net? >> No, no, I'm saying who's going to get the starting game one. And just listen to everything. Just listen to everything they've said all year long. >> No, I want to cut you off. >> When people tell you who they are, believe them. And when they show you, believe them too. And at every turn, I think back to how Keith used to talk about peering ball. And he would just be so critical of him all the time. And part of that was, you're 65 and you're built like a great God. Can you go play like it please? But there's just some guys who could just never win over a coach. Conversely, there are some guys who, a coach, just looks at with little puppy dog eyes and he could never quite get it away. And I think part of it is that all the Leafs' goalies have been such up and down and wishy washy. And Joe Walsh just hasn't, he's been wishy washy and up and down too. He just hasn't been here long enough for Keith to have that track record in his mind. That's honestly the only difference. The up and down thing has just been that he's hurt or he's not been hurt. >> Yeah. >> But that's part of it. Availability is the best ability. So I just think the way this team is trending, or sorry, the way this team has treated their goal tending all year long, that unless Samsonov 1000% stamps at home, that it is his net. And I'm not ruling out that possibility, which is why it's not 100% the answer I'm giving you. So I think it's a 65% chance Joe Walsh, your game one starter. >> No, it's a great point and you're right. That's the evidence that we have to back it up is that, well, Joe Walsh is gonna start twice against the Bruins this week. And he was put in a position to start those two games against the Bruins this week, seemingly for a reason. Again, there was all the reason in the world for Samsonov to be making consecutive starts after the game that he put forth on Saturday. But instead, they went back to the alternating thing, understanding- >> Okay, can I throw one thing in there as to why maybe they did this? So much of this is the mental with Samsonov, right? You just mentioned it. The Buffalo game was the game that nearly cost him his career or whatever you wanna say. I mean, basically- >> I mean, the Blue Jackets game came after that, it was just as bad. But the Sabers game was jarring. >> Is there some element of the team that you had your lowest moment against get him in there? And you don't want him to have the bad moment against Boston. Like, how much of it is protecting him for lack of a better term than wanting to see Joe Walsh in those moments? I mean, we'll never know the answer, it's a black box, but that's the thing I keep coming back to with these conversations. >> I mean, couldn't you make the same argument that you wanna protect him against the team that he just gave up? I think he only gave up four of the nine goals. I think actually Martin Jones came into that game and gave up more. >> That is what happened. That is what happened. But yeah, I don't know, I can make the same argument that you wanna protect him against the team that knows how to beat him, maybe? I don't know. It's crazy that we're talking about, yeah, trying to protect goalies during regular season games as we're trying to project game one starters. Yeah, I guess I can understand that thinking if it's part of the conversation, it wouldn't be part of my conversation. You're right, the best evidence to suggest that it is Joe Wall would be that the team's telling you, they're bending over backwards to put Joe Wall in position to take the reins and run with it. And yeah, they've both been up and down in different ways. Joe Wall's up and down has been like hurt and healthy. When he's been healthy, he's been generally pretty good. If the low's haven't been as low as Elia Sampson off, right? >> It's hard to be. >> It is very difficult to be to the core of the earth to get that low. He was literally removed from the act of NHL roster. So that stuff. No one's gonna have that type of down. But that being said, I think, boy, we're over that. >> Don't like that. >> I think we're over that. And again, I think I raised this before, but it's worth reminding people that just take, so last year was Elia Sampson off's best NHL season by a factor of a lot. I almost had a 920 say percentage. >> It was great. >> Take last year's sample with the Maple Leafs and this year's sample with the Maple Leafs, combine the numbers. >> Including the terrible stretch, because I feel like some people hear that and they think you're like, no, the whole season's like complete. >> And it's a barely above 900 say per percentage, but right in line with his career numbers. So like, yeah, we think of, well, the guy performing to his averages, that means he gives up, if he's got a 900 say percentage, that means he stops nine out of every 10 shots in every single game. No, it like, vacillates up and down and over the long period of time, you are who you are. And there's an argument to me that I made that Elia Sampson off is the same guy that you should have expected to get when the Capitals wave goodbye and didn't qualify him. But this is also the guy that was in that. And out dual the future Hall of Famer, Andre Vasilevsky, in six games a season ago. So I do think that if both guys are put in fourth, equal numbers at the end of this, like if you feel equally confident, or you have an equal lack of confidence in both guys going down the stretch here, then you do have to defer to the incumbent. So I know this is a cheat maybe, 51% for Elia Sampson off, 49% for Joe Wall. >> Okay, it is a cheat. So like I at least was a little bit less of a coward going with like the big old 65. >> I made a point. I said, I said Sampson off is, yeah, he's more likely. >> He, I totally get where you're coming from. The other thing that I think has to be included in this conversation. And part of the problem is that, well, it's actually very similar to what happened last year where the two guys just haven't been around that there was the little moment at the beginning of the year where they were both healthy, but they just haven't been around the team at the same time, is Sampson off was the right goalie for that part of it was just the play the way he, the way he was able to raise his game, but he was also the right goalie for that Leafs team. They're able to keep things pretty buttoned down and then occasionally there'd be the big save that he needed to make. That was what he kind of thrived in. This version of the Leafs team is giving up more. They're asking more of a goal, need a higher, I think you need a higher floor with this team. And that guy to me is wall, the higher floor guy is wall, the higher ceiling is Sampson off to me. I think that when you need, if you, if you just drop a goal tender into okay, it's three minutes left, the other team has a power play, they pulled the goalie, it's going to be, you're going to need three, four, five, ten bell saves in this stretch. Give me Sampson off, that is the guy I think can thrive in that role. But if it is, hey, this is a team that gives up a little more than they did last year, you just need to ask a little more of your goalie throughout the game, wolves, the guy I trust more in that regard. You need to have a higher ceiling than a high seat to me, like if you're buttoning it down and you don't allow a ton, you just need the guy with the higher floor. Like that last year's team was the thing about last year's team was they would button it down, but every there'd be five scoring chances a game and they would all be breakaways or two on ones. So that's why I look at the higher ceiling guys, the guy, the ability to make the more spectacular save. Like this was a, this was like figure skating, we were judging save attempts by goal tenders. I guarantee you, Sampson off is walking away with better, better numbers than walls. So that, that's kind of the way I look at it. But I mean, I see where you're, where you're getting from, but I just think that's the part that hasn't been, we've spent a lot of time talking about last year's Sampson off and wall and this is just a completely different Leafs team than what we saw last year. And that part needs to be factored in the equation of what is the best goalie for this year's Leafs team? Because we've seen various iterations of guys have success, but you need to kind of figure out who the right guy is for this group. David camp also dealing with an illness he might be out tonight, which means Pontus Holmerg might move to the middle on that, that fourth line and Noah Gregor might get an opportunity back in the lineup, but yada, yada, yada, yada. Yeah, I got first half of a back-to-back tonight. It's the penultimate game before the trade deadline. No, at three o'clock on Friday. Let's have a quick check-in on the Leafs trade deadline thoughts and conversation here, because yeah, we're going to have plenty over the next couple of days and a full three hour trade deadline edition of the show coming up on Friday. Let's just set the stage with this. How much faith do you have in Brad for a living headed into Friday? Because we've litigated that the offseason moves and we've also given him the benefit of the doubt considering the lack of time he had to get acclimated and the amount of work that had to be done. And boy, things looked pretty awful at the outset and still John Klingberg looks really bad. But the Tyler Bertuzzi, Max Domi of it all looks a lot better. And yeah, you go down the lineup and I don't know how much credit you give a guy for a C-Mom Benoit emerging, but that looks pretty good and having Martin Jones here. But that's a different deal than the work that is to come in the next couple of days. And you can look at the track record. I haven't been a ton of big swings. There's been the Tyler Tifoli from a couple of seasons ago. Where's your level of confidence in Brad's real living? It's high, not in the fact that he's going to nail the deadline and find the right one to three depth pieces or, you know, mid pieces that this team needs. But my confidence is sky high that he's not going to do something dumb. And he's not going to go and, you know, I know people are slightly down on Minton, but it's not going to be Minton and Nehemela and whatever. And hey, if you're giving up those guys and you're getting your Jake Buzz and trade for lack of a better term, go do it. I just don't think that one, that player's there. And I also don't think that Brad's living kind of feels that he needs to do that at this point in time. So that's where I'm at. It's high, but it's not because I think I'm going to love the moves that are made. I think they'll be fine. And honestly, I'm fine with that, but it's very high that we're not going to see like the one that always comes back to my mind at this time of year is the Martin Erat for Phillip Forsberg and men. You think the capitals wouldn't have liked to have had, had Phillip Forsberg poking around for that run after getting the year at and, you know, bouncing out in the second round like they did all the time. So that's the, that's, that's where I'm at with him. What about you? Yeah, I agree. So yeah, it's twofold ones. Go back again through the history of trade deadlines past and it's been one big swing and that was given up first in a bunch of picks for Tyler Tofoli and prospects from a couple of years ago outside of that there have not been big trade deadlines for Brad for living. Plus, I mean, just look at the available options out there via trade. Could have Tofoli a few months. Sure. Maybe although it doesn't look like he will be moved or at least there's some discussion about his lack of movement. But yeah, there are guys that can help. And, and maybe guys that have liked to the Tofoli point, maybe guys that are their general managers have been on the record as saying are not available are available for the right price. And maybe there's a surprise out there, but it doesn't feel like there's a big swing to be made. Plus, I understand like this is a pressure packs job and a market and boy, you don't go like a couple of years without feeling the pressure. And he's already felt the pressure at times this season. But it's one thing to be pressurized in like year two and three on the job. Do you really want to put that type of crosshair on your forehead in not even having completed your first season as general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs? I understand like there's also the opportunity cost here when you look across the landscape of not just the Eastern Conference but the entire NHL and how wide open it does feel. But come on, like what was what you're going to give up your first plus plus for I don't know, no Hanifen? Like, come on, like that's it's just not happening. No, it's not. And I think that's kind of the point I was making with the Keith conversation all along was just I don't think he wants to use that bullet. So early you only you get to make a few big moves as GM before the to your point the cross here is really kind of zero in on you. And he hasn't yet. There has not been the big there have been big free agent moves. There have been big contract signings. But there's not been the big move yet. And I don't think we're going to see it here. I honestly what I'd love to see is just sit tight, sit tight, sit tight, sit tight. And then what's available? There's going to be guys at the end of this that are and will they be your first choice? No, they won't. Because guess what? Somebody's going to go get their first choice. But I don't think there's enough of a difference among those types of players that you need to jump the market on that. I feel like that should be you waiting at the end and okay. All right, you got no dance partner? What can we do for a just just throw it a name. I'm not saying I want this guy Lars Eller or whoever. Yeah, okay. Well, Lars, always a different deal. But like it does feel like they're adding on the blue line like they need to add another defense. Well, they retain the they retain the salary. So they're adding. Yeah, I mean that I was going to bring that up later. But like, yeah, you do see a lot of GM saying like, yeah, I don't know, we could do something we could not. But like, Brad for living has not only said it explicitly. But like with his actions that there's a move coming before Friday, like clearly, when you have a double retention on Ilya Labushkin, who's now his cap hit is less than the. Yeah, you're indicating to everybody that there's there's more additions to be made here. I will say, I mean, the argument against like what you just described is as currently constructed, the shutdown pairing is TJ Brody and Timothy Lillegrine, which hey, they played pretty well in Morgan Riley's absence. That's pretty ugly. Yeah, against the Bruins on Monday. Are we sure it's not Jake McCabe and Simone Bemwa? Okay, I'm not like I understand we have quibbles with that as well. Seeing as how you know, Simone Bemwa was not qualified by the ducks and I've loved everything you've got out of them, but I don't know that people want to go into a, you know, Stanley Cup playoff with him is one half of your shutdown pair. But I feel like that's the that's the group most, but at least when I look at the least kind of shutdown pair, I think that's the group right now. Okay, so if you're cut, so then you're comfortable with that. I am, I am as comfortable with it as I'm going to be with again, it's not going to be Noah Hanifen. It's not going to be Adam Larson. So am I more comfortable with it than, you know, the filler type move? What about like a David Savard? I think a David Savard type helps, but give him what Simone Bemwa has given you this year. I just look at it and I say that sometimes a player's track record in their name, it carries too much weight. And I'm not saying that Savard is some, you know, great name we think of all the time. But if Simone Bemwa just existed on another team and he was an RFA and maybe they weren't sure how they were going to proceed with him in the off season, that'd be the guy you'd be clamoring. If you say and look at this guy, he's been playing tough minutes all year long. He's fighting. He's hitting. Yeah, he doesn't know what to do with the puck. But honestly, on this team, that's okay. Simone Bemwa would be a guy you'd be maybe clamoring is too strong of a word for, but that would be your hipster deadline pickup guys. So I just worry about, I'm not saying displace him because you're not going to add so many defensemen. Again, he's the best defenseman on the team. So how can you add so many that he's not playing anymore? But I do worry about thinking you're getting more from a David Savard type. And again, that's not a knock on Savard, but it's just I don't know that we're giving Ben wall. We give him enough credit in terms of like the local hero and he loves to fight and I'll just hit the bodies for you. But I don't know that we've given him credit as the steps he's taken to play on a shutdown pair. And no, he's not a number one defenseman. No, he's not a top pair guy. But can he thrive in that role? Not as much as plenty of other players in this league, but I don't know maybe just as much as David Savard, honestly. Yeah, to the David Savard point guy who has a ring played over 14 minutes a game for that lightning team that won it all in the not the bubble season in the north division season of 2021. Leafs have now won around, Brent, like how important is it to get that hardened playoff experience veteran in the locker room? The guy that they can all turn to and say, what is it like to win around now? Now they can all look at each other and say, we know what it's like to win around. Yeah, I don't think it, I don't think it matters if it's a fringy line up guy. I think it mattered last year when it was Ryan O'Reilly. And he's a con mess. My winner who comes in and plays incredibly meaningful moments for your team. And hey, if they give up a first round pick for David Savard, guess what he's going to do play incredibly meaningful minutes for this team. But he's David Savard. He wasn't Victor Hedman in that cup run. And I'm not taking away anything from what it means to have a ring and have that experience. But I just think that they've tried that a million times with dropping guys in the room who have done a thing. And it's never worked. So I think it's a great thing as an added value. But I don't think it should be the one B to the players actual role of 1A in this trade. I don't think we're kind of past that point now again. If it's your, if it's a consmith winner, I feel like that's completely different than any of those available. No, I don't think so. I don't think so. No, okay, probably not getting Marsha show out of Vegas. I don't think who added yesterday as well. That was, okay, mantha, that felt cheap to me for a guy. He's going to score for them. He's big. He's fast. He's not, he's not, he's got a little peering ball in him and that you wish he was heavier with how big and how fast he is. But he's going to fit in seamlessly as a night. They got 50% retention on that. And it was just a second and a fourth. I don't know that that was the guy the Leafs needed to get. I don't, I'm not saying it would have been a bad ad by any means either, but I looked at that one night. I would imagine there had to be a few other fan bases around the league going, huh? It was kind of the feeling I had when, when Zadorov was moved at the beginning of the season and went, well, that's it. You're third and a fifth. You couldn't have got, got in on that. I'm sure there are a lot of teams feeling that way about a second and a fourth the mantha. Yeah, Leafs should, you know, had a second round pick either now or next year or like the next 100 years. One round picks, yeah, they're at the door. Well, and it's like, sometimes they're one thing, sometimes they're the other, sometimes you're Matthew Knies, sometimes you're Nick Robertson. Yeah. It was, you know, demoted not for. No, no. Hey, yeah. And it's like, they run, they got that out to the town cry or pretty quickly. Yeah. This is not Nick's fault. It's our fault. No, still valuable. Still should be on this team when we throw him into the trade that is about to be consummated before three o'clock on Friday, you know that it's not that we think he's an American hockey league player. He's an NHL player. I mean, just look at the roster. We can't, we can't let, we can't expose Martin Jones to waivers. So yeah, it's interesting the way that that has been presented to the rest of the NHL. Alright, when we come back, Zion Williamson and the rest of the Pelicans putting on the Raptors, we're gonna break down all 48 minutes like, no, probably not, probably not gonna do that. But what we are gonna talk about had some flashes. I'm telling you, man, he that was like the one game in the last like week and a half that he had no flashes. His flashes were turning the ball over missing all his threes. But anyways, everyone's bad. Raptors are very bad. And we all wish the season was over. It's not. But outside of the game, there's actually a talking point out of that game. And it came in the post game media availability from Zion Williamson. We'll play you that clip and talk about it next as the fan morning show continues. Ben and his friend gunning Sportsnet 590 the fan. Hey, it's Aylish for a fire. And I'm Justin Cuthrey. Join us as we discuss the most important sports stories of the day and tee up the biggest games of the night. It's the fan pregame 6 p.m. weekdays on Sportsnet Sportsnet 590 the fan and wherever you get your podcasts. So Raptors followed up their 138 point loss in New Orleans. By the way, fan morning show Sportsnet 590 the fan. Ben and his friend gunning. Good morning. Good morning. Raptors followed up their previously worst loss of the season into Orleans where you got to make improvements. Yeah, their actual worst loss of the season yesterday. 41 point loss to the pelicans 139 98. That's the worst home loss in franchise history. Gross. So last night. So the previous high for point differential in a loss at home was March 1996. The sky don't. So here's the here is the good thing about that. And by the way, Yacapertal also having hand surgery also likely out for the season joining Scotty Barnes. And the Raptors still sitting seventh from the bottom in the overall standing. So touch and go as far as retaining their first ramp pick. But here is the positive. Take that out of the equation. Sure. This is a pretty little bar like hard to limbo under this one. Yeah, for next season. For next season. Yeah, there'll be a time. It will this season. No, I don't. I'm not ruling anything out with this 50 point loss 60 point loss. I think that the NBA record because what though the Warriors were down 50 at the half to the Celtics the other day and people were talking about the the all time record for discrepancy between winning and losing team being in the 70 somewhere. I think it's like some like 78 points or something. Well, you think that's in the cards? No, I don't. I think the problem this is this is actually even more insulting. I think the problem is that no one takes them. Like the Warriors are still the carcass of the Warriors, right? Like the Celtics want to put that beat down on them and not the guys don't see it start seeing numbers go up and shots go up and they start licking their chops because point night I get that but there's just it's the Raptors like it's not the same putting the beat down on them that it is the Warriors or something along those lines. The Simpsons mean like stop, stop. They're already dead. They're already dead. They're dead. Anyways, wins and losses irrelevant and we don't even get the like added benefit of a what Scotty Barnes. It's all like a manual quickly. I mean, you should still watch when the games are on sports and obviously but that goes without saying. Hey, I was I was too screening it last night. Two sports net screens because of Euler's Prince. Yeah, sure. Anyways, Raptors get pounded in. This is crazy. Like, I mean, not that crazy. I guess when you take a second to think about it, but Zion Williamson in his fifth season in the NBA fourth though because he missed all of 21 22. But fifth season since he was drafted. First overall in the same draft classes, RJ Barrett, who went third. This is the first game in Toronto ever. He's never previously played in Toronto. Yeah, they said actually the last time he had played here him and RJ Barrett were teammates when Duke beat, I think they played like UFT, which God wouldn't experience must've been for those guys. Yeah, also never forget that the and their final game of was against Michigan or Michigan State in the Elite eight that it was RJ Barrett taking that final shot and not Zion Williamson, which. Okay. It didn't go so well. Anyways, I do love that Zion in an era in which everybody shoots threes and everybody scores in a very similar manner that you got this guy who boy, who knows how long it'll last and this is it. And we're going to get maybe a career high in games played previous to this was the 61 games that he played in 2021. And yeah, the fitness level has been picked apart at times, but it's just nice to see something different. Somebody that explosive at nearly 300 pounds. Of course, we all remember him blowing through his shoe when he was playing for Duke in front of Obama. Yeah, one weird night. Honestly, on the short list, like I throw that up there with the Jose Conseco taking a ball off the head, turning into into into a home run as like one of the weirdest, yeah, most exciting highlights that I can remember in the last, well, Conseco was more than 10 years ago, but that was incredible. This guy's very heavy and that he can be as explosive as he was. And he did one of his patented on the on the breakaway, like talk back to hammer and just destroy the rim. I want everyone to know everyone to know you just like mime that out. Oh, yeah, of course. Now I am worried about that fight. We might have to let it go over there, buddy. It's great that there are, yeah, there's different strokes, at least with him. And who knows, let's see him in the playoffs for the first time in his career, how that works out. I'm excited to see it. Hopefully he stays healthy. So blah, blah, blah. He didn't play a ton of minutes in the game because this thing was, I mean, his garbage is pretty close to 48 minutes of garbage time for the pelicans. But after the game, like, you know, we're not talking about the game necessarily breaking down the plays in the game. I'm very mad at me with my with my raptors text. We're going to start with the raptors. No, we don't. We don't have to talk about the rappers of all. In fact, we're done talking about the Raptors. We're now talking explicitly about what Zion Williamson said after the game. Because yeah, like I said, nobody's talking about that game yesterday. They're somebody's trying to figure out some other storyline to pull from that game. And Zion was more than happy to give somebody something when they asked him about, hey, the incredible in game dunk that he had yesterday, would you ever consider the dunk competition? I got to do my part and make the All-Star game. If I'm in All-Star game, I'll do the dunk contest. But if I'm not not doing it, oh, oh, okay. So this is a guy that has previously been an All-Star twice. I mentioned the 61 games that he played in 2021. He was an All-Star there. He was also ninth in the most improved player standings. And then he was an All-Star last year, not an All-Star this year, despite averaging over 20 points a game and with the field goal percentage approaching 60%. What did you take from that comment that, hey, if I'm an All-Star, if I'm at the game, I'm not going to do this thing where I'm not an All-Star and I'll just show up with a dunk contest. If I'm at the game, I'll be participating in this. The first things first is congratulations to 2024, 25 All-Stars, Zion Williamson. We have just officially put him in the game. That is the biggest takeaway to do this. And it's not nothing. I'm not going to understand he's under contract for a while here, but we don't have the NBA works with contract accelerators and All-Star votes and starts being a part of it and appearances being a part of things that can tip you to a bigger raises year over year. So that's not nothing either. But the other part of this is just, thank God, we needed a star to do this. And the LeBron topic's been done to death. I think that the thing with LeBron is there was, of course, you could have won the dunk contest and he would have been fed it, but there was also the opportunity where he didn't. And it would have been seen as a knock on him. I think with Zion, what allows him to do this is the fact that he has not become the truly transcendent star. Like if he was somebody we talked about in the same way, we talk about a Luca or a Giannis or somebody like that. And again, I'm not disparaging what Zion is, but there's just a gap between where he is in the league and where those guys are. If he was on that level of conversation, I think he'd be way more hesitant to do it, saying, no, I don't want to have something that could be seen to knock. Because if he doesn't win this, I mean, I know Mack McLung wins it every year now. But if Mack McLung beats Zion, it's going to be seen as a failure by Zion. I do think that by a lot of people. And that's what I think allows him to do this. Well, I think the NBA, like they did for Jalen Brown, just like pushing him into the finals. And like, there's only so much you can do when, yeah, you're facing Mack McLung and you're not doing anything. And I mean, you did what a dung win, which you did a dab afterwards to get into the finals. And we can't just hand you the trophy as close as we came to doing that. Yeah, obviously Zion's in this thing next year. He's there, they're moving heaven and earth to have him get into the finals and maybe win it. And maybe it's a situation where it's like, you actually have to actively remove Mack McLung from the competition. Maybe you make Mack McLung like honorary judge, right? Because you can't be like, hey, sorry, Mack, you're the guy that financially needs this more than anybody else. Well, okay, you know, like, it's all entertainment. You just pay him 500 grand to take a dive. Why wouldn't he do that? Well, honestly, like, it's like, Matt, yes, it would be sanctity of the sanctity of the dunk contest. Yeah, why on why on earth could you not just do it? It's all a soap opera. It's the dunk contest because you need him in there. If they remove, I can't believe I'm getting so worked up, but a dunk contest a year from now, but if they remove Mack McLung from it and it's okay, you've had your turn. Well, how would we feel about the fastest skater in the NHL if Conor McDavid wasn't allowed to do it? Well, I know he doesn't win it every year, but he should. But who's the fastest skater in the NHL, though? Like, I mean, is it faster than, like, who's the second fastest skater, Dylan Larkin? Like, I don't know. Yeah, there's a guy down there. I'm sure who can fly. I mean, yeah, to the Mack McLung thing about asking him to take a dive. What's easier is to say here's half a million dollars. Just say that you're retiring or taking a year off. Well, no, but I think I think the thing is, is that Zion, like, can't be seen that it was cleared out for him. You do need him there. Like, if if Mack McLung, you know, not knock on wood for this, too, we've been doing it for everything else. But he has some horrific injury and he can't do it. It won't be seen as them clearing it out for him, but it will be seen as a would have been nicer. Yeah, for sure. Would have been nice to. Oh, yeah, we're going to feel so great if it's Zion Williamson and a bunch of 13th men who can get up. I don't know. You know, it's weird. I know you have to put it in the framework of a contest. I just want to, I got to say, but it was just like, hey, Zion Williamson is going to take 15 minutes. He's just going to dunk. Yes, here for him. I mean, the one, the one we truly could never get is the, you get your 10 best shop lockers in the league and you get your 10 best in-game dunkers and never happen because someone's going to die and then do slam ball and then have them on trampolanes. I mean, don't tempt me with a good time. Yeah. You're telling me, I'm telling you right now, day to clock on sports that Zion Williamson's playing slam ball. You want no parts of that? I don't know. Is there a trampoline, like sturdy enough to withstand Zion Williamson? Is he not doing like that Nike shoe on the trampolines? Like, and Zion Williamson has fallen to the center of the earth. We have sent out a rescue team to get them. Just that the slam ball got me thinking they were talking about this on the broadcast last night of Zion Williamson playing high school football. And like, that's not surprising at all. Yeah. But God, that must just have been the least fun thing ever. They said he played D end. Can you imagine that? Yeah, it's not like you remember being, you remember, and it's like, I know, you know, football in Louisiana, I think it's where he's from. It's like, yeah, it's a little, it's a little different than, you know, like you playing in Oakville, but it's like, you remember being 17 and playing football. Can you imagine Zion Williamson on the other side of things? Yeah, I played like division three, Halton football as an offensive lineman. Like, I was a center and like, yeah, there were a couple of guys that I faced and were like, oh, they were real large adult humans. It wasn't good. God. And I wasn't the quarterback. I was just getting pushed aside before they attacked the court. I have a feeling there's this like old clip that's been going around to Reggie White, where he just used to take defensive lineman and kind of like throw them or offensive lineman and throw them at the quarterback while he was on his way there. And I think that's what what would have been happening to you. And me just to clarify as well. Although I'm too, too tall, too rangy. I have to be able to tackle. So then I definitely began it from Zion. That's true. Last thing for me on Zion again, like, I would just be fine to just to see a a demonstration as I on Williamson, like just a warm up what he does in a normal everyday warm up except he's the only guy on the court. And secondarily to that point, like, I don't need him to do anything spectacular as far as like, you know, 720 like through the legs twice or blindfolded. I just need the forceful to him. This is what we miss in the dunk contest, right? It's like, Oh, well, what did you when we turn back the tape and and oh, well, actually, that was pretty impressive in retrospect. Like if we actually see what happened there, there's there is a cool element to that. But there's nothing better than in the moment first attempt, just like something forceful like what he did yesterday in the game. Do you know what we need is they have a decibel meter for how loud things are? I don't know what what you'd call it, but like a forceo meter on the rim. Like, you know, those those carnival games where it's like, hit this as hard as you can. Just put that sensor thing, you know, except one that is like actually calibrated to something instead of just a carny game where you get robbed blind. That's what I want. It's like, I want to see it's like how how much force did he put on? We it's why can't they set that up because that is the problem with Zion in terms of an impressive dunker is, and to your point about the contest of it all, he's not going to have seven incredibly acrobatic dunks. And I don't want to see that. Just want to see him cram it as hard as he possibly can with his right hand with his left hand with two. And that's why I actually do think we need like, again, I'm sure there's an real name for it, but I'm going to go with the forceo meter is what we need on the on the rim there. Honestly, it's actually like what do they use to measure earthquakes, a seismometer or something that's definitely not that. God, it's too early, but yeah, I should have that on the tip of my tongue. Yeah, you're like a like a weather guy should have that. I mean, I wouldn't consider natural event movement as weather necessary. It's all connected. Anyways, Zion at the dunk contest, I the result of that, I would envision that in my heart of hearts, that's what LeBron James would look like, because LeBron James is not as heavy as Zion, but yeah, LeBron James, if he was ever in the dunk contest too, I wouldn't expect him to be doing like the, I don't know, the the the Zach Levine type stuff. I would expect him to look like Zion Williamson will look next year at the the all star game at the dunk contest, just like forceful forceful dogs. That's all I see. All right, when we come back, we are hours away from the NHL's trade deadline. Two more games for the Maple Leafs to play before three o'clock on Friday afternoon. Let's talk to Justin Bourne of Real Kipper and Bourne next, as the fan morning show continues, Ben Anis, Brent Gutting, Sportsnet 5-9 at the fan.
