Showdown
Showdown Episode 139 8-30-24
(upbeat guitar music) - Welcome to Showdown. I'm Mark Casein. Dell Taylor alongside and Dell, you are a state representative. What district? - District 84 is, there are eight of us inside the city of St. Louis. I have the western part of St. Louis city. So, think of King's Highway, everything west of King's Highway for the most part. - Okay. - Forest Park. - Forest Park is in the city, west of King's Highway. Dogtown, Forest Park, and then all of the communities north, all the way to highway 70. - Okay, and how long have you been in the legislature? - This is my first term, so this is somewhere around month, 18 or 19. - Wow. Well, let me ask you, how did you even decide to do this, and is it your first run? - My first run, the short story. I am actually a chemical engineer. I used to build water treatment equipment. I went and got my MBA. I worked as a business consultant for 25 years, Deloitte Consulting, Ernst & Young Consulting. When I hung up my wingtips, I thought, maybe I'll be helpful in the legislature. So, I ran, I won, and here I am. - Very nice. - Well, you happen to be working on a subject that is so important to me, and of course, it's hugely important to the country. Unfortunately, the country thinks a bunch of things about this that are all wrong. - Mark, there is so much misinformation out there, and that's why I'm so appreciative to you and your team for having me out here. I think that's a big part of what we're finding on this committee is let's really hear from the people, let's get the truth, and then let's get the truth out there to others. Let's put a face on some of these immigrants and really dig down deep into, what are we even talking about here? - Yeah, so this is a public hearing on illegal immigrant crimes, which by every measure I've ever seen, there are almost none. - Correct, yeah, correct. After four hearings, we had one person talk about five, literally, I can count them on one hand, five crimes out of the six million Missourians that are here, that is practically non-existent. We've heard from Share, so we've heard from a number of people, we have not heard anything substantial about immigrants documented or undocumented committing any wave of crime in Missouri. - So where do you, well, aside from Donald, where did all this come from? - It's an election year. I mean, honestly, Mark, it's an election year, and one party has really made immigration their platform that the country has some immigration problems and that they can do a better job at it. That's the fuel for this fire, but when you really get down to it, A, that's a federal issue, B, the federal government has been working on this, they have some wins, they have some losses, but when we really get down to the state legislature, Missouri, the Missouri House of Representatives, there's little that we can do. Speaker Plocker, others, campaigning, going door to door, there has been a lot of question, what's going on, what's the situation, are we at risk here in Missouri? Speaker Plocker launched this committee to really investigate and find out what's the story, and what we've been hearing is very little to know data about illegal immigrants committing crimes in Missouri, but overwhelmingly, Mark, and in fact, it's been overwhelming, our immigrants are vulnerable, and they are the victims of crimes. - Exactly, yeah, it's a complete reverse of what everybody talks about, and I know you've got this public hearing, so let's put this out here right away, and then we'll talk more about it in a minute, but on September 3rd, you're gonna be meeting at the main branch of the St. Louis Library in the city, and it'll be at 11 o'clock in the morning, and it's really a great opportunity for the public to come out and hear what the real truth is about immigrant crime, because it just, you know, well here, let me back up on this. I got this idea, and it's not all that amazing, in fact, given the history of our country, it's pretty normal, but at any rate, I've thought that what we oughta do is when students graduate, and I'm a teacher, when students graduate from high school, if we would offer them the opportunity to go to the border, and, you know, we could send, we could send a million high school graduates to the border, and when the people come over the border, instead of fighting with them and acting crazy, if we welcomed them in and had these students mentoring the people who come across, helping them to figure out how to get jobs, how to get their kids into education, how to educate themselves, how to learn English, just how to participate here, and be involved, and eventually aim for being Americans. I mean, it would be the Peace Corps all over again, just right here in our own country. I mean, what do you think? - Excellent, I think it's an excellent idea. Mark, I would add to that. I don't think you have to go that far. I think right here in St. Louis, our International Institute does a phenomenal job of working and welcoming immigrants, and absolutely, I think you've hit on something, to expose grade school students, high school students, college students, to the people that are here living with us in our community right here would be a huge plus. Call it community service, call it volunteerism, you get credits or points for that, but recognize that St. Louis, like so much of our country, really was built. It is a city of immigrants. We welcome them, we need to know who they are and engage them. And Mark, I think you've hit it on the head, trying to get people engaged and meeting their neighbors, meeting the immigrants that are coming here right now, and how can I help? How can I help you feel more welcome and help you engage in our community? - Exactly, and you know, I played a clip on here about maybe three weeks to a month ago, and it was Ronald Reagan. And amazingly, I didn't know that he even said this, but I mean, Ronald Reagan said, if the United States ever stops immigrants coming here, that it's gonna kill our country because it is the lifeblood of our country, that these are young people that come here, that have tremendous inspiration, and they mix in with our country, they fit in great with the whole attitude of the United States, which, you know, do better and be better and find ways to be successful. And Reagan said this, he said, look, he says, we have to keep welcoming these people here, and any attempt to do otherwise is hurting us. - At our own detriment, Mark, this is such a rich topic to cover. I, let me start with the hearing. This is the fifth of six hearings. - Okay. - The previous hearings have been recorded. They are on the Missouri House Communications website. If you go to that link, or you can go to my, I can reach out to me and I can help direct you to the Missouri House Communications website, Facebook page, and we heard testimony, and you're gonna, the face of some of these immigrants, one immigrant from Kansas City stands out, young 17-year-old woman, girl, left her child, left her family in Guatemala, traveled 13,000 miles to the United States without her children, without her family, without support. She crossed the border illegally. She crossed illegally. She was human traffic. She taught herself English with a dictionary. Mark, she taught herself English with a dictionary. - Incredible. - She got visa, she got work visas. She became a permanent resident. She is now a citizen, a business owner, a real estate broker, you know, a member of the community. It is an amazing testimony. At one point, she even says during her testimony, someone sent her to the unemployment office. She went to the office. She saw a bunch of people standing around. She said, "What are they doing? "They're standing around waiting for the check." And she says, "Oh, no." (laughing) An immigrant said, "Oh, no. "I'll just go and get another job. "I'll get another job." So, Mark, this is such a rich topic. The truth is there, it's on the website. You can see the firsthand testimony here in St. Louis on September 3rd at 11 o'clock at the public library. We're gonna have other people come and testify firsthand as to just how critical an important immigration is. We're gonna have a demographer from St. Louis University who actually studies the census. He advises our governor. He's on panels with other state governors. And the short story, our population is not growing that fast. Others are outpacing us. We need immigrants. - I can't say any more. - I can't say any more. - Simply, we need these people. If we don't, if we make it unwelcoming for immigrants to come to Missouri, we could be looking at losing a congressional seat. Our population relative to our neighbors is going to fall. Our neighbors are taking this serious. Nebraska takes their immigrants very serious. Iowa takes their immigrants very serious. Missouri, this hurtful language is making it harder for us to recruit and retain the talented immigrants that we are getting and attracting to Missouri. We have to stop this. - Yeah, I have to tell you how many times that I've gotten on here and just read, which I know the language anyway, the words off of the Statue of Liberty. And you know, people's response to it on the other side or on Earth too, as I like to say. They say that's just words. It's not a law, but it's actually our advertisement. So it is meaningful. It has to do with our history. And what's our problem? - Mark, we are a country of immigrants. Emma Lazar said it right there on her poem. Send us, send them to us. Send us your week and you're tired. Send them to us. We need their help. We need their labor. And we welcome them. We welcome them. St. Louis has an extremely rich history with our immigrants, with our Germans and even more recently than that. These are the people that help build our city. These are the people that, in some degrees, actually defend our democracy. So, for, you know, bottom line, I am thankful that we are having this hearing so that we can hear from people. We hear from people on both sides. And Mark, I think I'm reaching out to you and others to help get the truth out there from the people that actually have the courage to actually come and stand and share the truth, share their own personal truths and the hard work that they're doing to grow Missouri. - Yeah, sort of an interesting historical story is that back around 1914, 1915, the United States decided they came up with this great idea. We want to bring the immigrants in here. And of course, what they were doing is they were bringing them to the United States from south of the border. And then they turned around and shipped them off to Europe to fight for the United States. And the funny part about it is, is the people in Mexico quickly figured out what was going on and said, you know what? Well, we'll pass on this for a minute, you know? 'Cause they saw what we were doing. But, you know, it's just, the whole immigration history is just incredible. And as you point out, we're all immigrants. Every one of us, we're... - Unless you're some kind of Native American. - Right. - And can trace that. And I think that would be a challenge. Most of us are from foreign heritage. - Yeah, my family actually came from, half of my grandfather came from Lithuania. And my grandmother came from Ukraine, actually from Kiev. And the interesting part of it is, is that all our lives, they said we were from Russia. Well, because back then, it was controlled by Russia. And so, you know, it's sort of an interesting part of what's going on in the world today. And yet, again, like you've said, I mean, people just don't get it. They don't realize what's going on here. And why they keep saying that these people commit crimes when they don't? - They are here, some of them are here seeking, you know, political prisoners escaping from political prosecution. Some of them are here escaping from violence. And they're here seeking asylum. In fact, the Geneva Convention, you know, and the United States is a signatory to this. You know, you have to accept and open and provide in the process for people, you know, fleeing political prosecution. So these people that are entering and, quote, crossing the border illegally, I mean, this is part of the Geneva Convention. This is how the rules are set up. They get here, they apply for asylum. Our system is broken. It may take them years to get their asylum or hearings. But in the process, they are here, they can apply for work permits. They are working, they get tax ID numbers. They are working, paying taxes. They're paying employment taxes. They're paying sales taxes. But Mark, they're not getting social security. They're not getting welfare. They're not getting TANF and all of these other social services. They may, and I support this, their kids can go to public school. And I believe wholeheartedly, 100% absolutely, the kids should go to public school. The pregnant ladies, mothers, wives can get services during their pregnancy, wick and other services while they're pregnant. Absolutely, I agree, 100% hold heartedly with that. But this rhetoric about, oh, they're here and they're on the dole and they're getting sucking up all these social services, that is just not true. And that's part of what we've been hearing during the hearing. Right, because you know that Donald is saying right now that they're coming over here and that they are getting social security and that all of the old people here will never get social security again because we're giving all that money to immigrants who cross the border. Untrue. Yeah, of course. Untrue. Who can even imagine we would do that? The truth is in these hearings, the previous testimonies are on the House website. I encourage people to go and listen to the previous testimonies. We've had testimony from law enforcement. We've had testimonies from immigrants. We've had testimony from labor individuals and mark the biggest crime that we've really been hearing is wage theft. Our immigrants come here. Our visitors come here and they are the victims of wage theft. Subcontract to subcontract to subcontract agreements. You know, these business folks find these loopholes and they work these immigrants in a paltry and unsafe scenarios. They don't pay them fairly. They are the victims of wage theft and even our unions have stepped up and said, you know, that undermines all, you know, that undermines all laborers. So let's get, you know, some sort of a solution that they can join the unions. They will get better training. They will get better safety and it'll be better for wages for all Missourians. Yeah, so let's say it again, because it's very important for people to hear this and that is that when the people come over from other countries, they're not committing crimes against us. We are actually committing crimes against them and stealing from them. That's one thing and I can only imagine other things because they're here without documentation. They don't have any protection and people could do anything to them. Exactly and that's what's most scary is that these are a vulnerable population within our city, within our state. And many of them are documented. Again, as I mentioned, they may come here. They may cross the border illegally. The minute that they apply for asylum because of political or violence issues, now they are truly, you know, they're in the process. They're awaiting their court date. They can get employment papers. They are allowed to work here. And yet, you know, where they may come from, maybe the law enforcement is not the first line of defense. Maybe they don't, you know, they're not, you know, so willing to go and call and tell the police. They're more timid. They're just not, you know, accustomed to that. So during one hearing, we even heard firsthand testimony that maybe our state needs to do some things to reach out to these immigrants and at least give them a safe space that they could be heard. You know, a hotline that they can call, "Hey, is this fair?" "Hey, this landlord is offering me this kind of rent-a-own lease." Is that really accurate? "Hey, I need translation services." You know, there's a lot that, you know, we should be considering here in the state of Missouri to make our immigrants feel welcome and feel that they have a voice because we don't want them being exploited. We do not. We absolutely, and both sides across the board, universally on this hearing, my colleagues universally do not want our immigrants being exploited. - What kind of pushback do you personally get on this thing because we know that this is so emotional and people just believe that there's this unbelievable torrent of criminals. You know, Donald says hundreds of thousands of people are dead at the border. I've got a cousin who actually watches this show, he works in Arizona, and I always ask him, you know, if he's been stepping over the dead bodies and we laugh because there's no one, you know, it's not nothing like that. But what kind of pushback are you getting personally that maybe is a little scary? - Mark, this hearing Chairman Lane and the speaker initially wanted to talk about illegal immigrant crimes and they tried to tie it to fentanyl. Absolutely, the United States is having a crisis with fentanyl, and to some degree we are fairly confident that the fentanyl is being manufactured in China, it's being shipped to Mexico, and then the fentanyl is coming into the United States. Some of my colleagues will want to talk about, you know, individual immigrants carrying, you know, fentanyl on their person across the border. The facts, what we're hearing almost universally is that no, it's Americans driving trucks, truckloads of fentanyl. Semi-truckloads of fentanyl, American border agents maybe being bribed and shipping containers of these drugs coming into the country. Even a witness talked about, you know, the drug cartels in Mexico are looking for efficient ways to move their product, and it's far more efficient for them to move a truckload or a shipping container than to try and have X number of people carry a pound here or there. Yes, there might be a pound here or there, but Mark far and away, the gross numbers, the gross tonnage to use the shipping term of this product is coming, you know, via Americans driving the trucks, driving the containers into our country. And in fact, I'm gonna even come in again, but we actually heard testimony from a law enforcement agent who talked about, he used to do methamphetamine home lab bus, dismantling home labs for methamphetamine. That went from about five bus a week down to zero because the methamphetamine, because people have switched to fentanyl, it's coming across the border in 55 gallon drums. So I asked him, how many immigrants does it take to carry a 55 gallon drum across the border, right? And the answer was, no, no, it's, you know, people are driving this in trucks. It's Americans driving the fentanyl in truckloads, in semi, you know, in semi trucks in large shipping containers. The southern border, the northern border, the Florida ports, it's a, you know, it's a big problem for this country. So that's kind of some of what I'm hearing from my colleagues is, oh, what about the fentanyl? Oh, what about the fentanyl? Yes, fentanyl is a horrible problem and we are dying from it. And yes, there's gonna be organized crime wherever you have, you know, those types of economics. But please, let's not blame the lowest person on the rung, the lowest person on the totem pole and point the finger and make this whole national debate about them when it's just unfair. It's unfair and that's not true. - Yeah, you know, I hate to sound dumb and ask a question like I've asked about other things in the past too. But here's my question. What can we do to diminish the demand for this? Because given the fact that people die in the United States all the time as a result of taking these drugs, what does it take to convince people, knock it off? - Oh, Mark, that one, no one has it. - And that's not the United States. That is a global problem. The planet is struggling with solutions to mental health and people self-medicating, be it fentanyl, cannabis, alcohol, even tobacco. I think it really stems more to a mental health issue and not my area of expertise. I cannot really talk about that. But what we have been trying to, what we've heard in these hearings is, they want to talk about illegal immigrants. They want to talk about organized crime in cartels. They want to talk about fentanyl. But we're not seeing correlation. These dots do not add up in Missouri. Missouri does not have a large number of illegal immigrants trafficking the fentanyl. We don't see that in police bus. We don't have any data about that. I reached out to the highway patrol. We don't have any data about that. We're not seeing anything like that. I ask other questions and I'm getting horrible stories about our least protected, our most vulnerable immigrants are the victims of just horrible hate crimes. Family sleeping in their beds and someone fire bombs the house with them sleeping in it. How much more horrible can you get than that? A story one of the witnesses told the story of a 12 year old girl that got home late from just being out. Her mom questioned her. Her mom questioned her. It turns out that the young girl had been raped. The mom didn't know what to do. She didn't want to call the police. She called the translator and the translator said, "Absolutely, absolutely we have to call the police." Absolutely. So she convinced her, they called the police. The police took the report. They found the young man, they got the evidence. The young man is in prison today. No one, we do not want rapists. We don't want murderers. We don't want arsonists. We don't want these people in our state. We don't want them committing any crimes. We don't want them committing crimes against Missourians or our least vulnerable. Yeah, and we can do something about this. There are probably five different solutions that I can think of. I know that listening to Kamala Harris last night on CNN, when she was asked about this problem, she talked about the fact and she was pretty clever in the way she answered it. Did you watch that last night? I didn't see it. Okay, so she was clever in the way she answered it 'cause she talked about how as a prosecutor, she has prosecuted transnational criminals who have come across the border. That that's the work that she has done in her work in California, and especially she was the Attorney General and all of that. And so instead of getting into a fight over what we're talking about right now and saying that they don't commit any crimes, she just emphasizes the fact that look, you know, we go after the bad guys and we get them when we find them. Yes, yeah, so. Yes, yes, and I think that's, you know, that's a fair point to make that. You go to any community and you're gonna find some bad actors, you know, the inner city community, the West County community, the immigrant community, you're gonna find some bad actors and, you know, we should make sure that our law enforcement has the tools and, you know, everything that they need to go after to find these individuals and to bring them to justice. I want to make sure that we are also emphasizing and making sure that our immigrants have a voice that they feel comfortable communicating when they see things that are wrong. See something, say something, you know. If you think that you're being exploited for labor, say something. If you think that someone might be, you know, leveraging for human trafficking, say something. You know, if you're the victim of, you know, hatred, you know, hatefulness, you know, maybe we need to work with the schools. Maybe, hey, here's an idea. Maybe have our high school students do some, you know, some volunteer work. Not my favorite. With the International Institute and some other organizations. Literally, I mean, even when, you know, so honestly, I went to high school at St. Louis U High in 1980s. I don't remember a lot of immigrants. But literally, when I got to wash you, there were all kinds of international students. International students from Mexico, from Iran, from Malaysia. And that was really my first exposure to, you know, people abroad and, you know what, Mark? They were just like me. Exactly. Young kids trying to figure it out, trying to get their homework down, trying to get to class on time. Right. Listen, the public hearing is going to be September 3rd, and it's 11 o'clock in the morning, and it's going to be at the St. Louis Public Library, the main branch, which is what, on Olive? 1301 Olive Street. 1301 Olive Street. Come on down, try and get there a little early. We are accepting public testimony. We also accept written testimony. And if you cannot make it to the public library, you can watch us live stream on the House Communications Facebook page. OK. Well, listen, I thank you so much for coming here, Del. It's very much appreciated. This is very important work, getting this story out. And, you know, many of us can talk a long time about it, and eventually drown out the nutcase. So that's what we're going to do. Mark, let me jump in there, because I have to thank you. I have to thank you, and I need your help. I need your help, and I need other broadcasters help too. Let's bring some visibility to this. Transparency and visibility is our best friend. That's probably the best tool that we have. We're having this hearing in St. Louis, September 3. We're scheduled to have a hearing on September 25 in Cape Gerardo. And then, after that, we have to summarize our results and publish a report on what we found. And I need to make sure that we do exactly that. We call these hearings. People have testified. Let's make sure that we get a report. Let's make sure that we get a report any timely manner. So that people actually do have the facts, or can hear firsthand from individuals, incredible organizations about what's the truth here in Missouri. Yeah, and I really look forward to, in fact, working with you, because, you know, I have students over at Cardinal Ritter College Prep, okay? And they are great students that are involved in learning about government. And, in fact, a large group is going to show up in November with the Missouri Youth and Government Program. They'll be in Jefferson City, working on legislative, working on judicial. And my guess is you'll probably be around. And, you know, maybe we can hook you up with some students and we can talk about, there'll be 1,000 students there. Oh, wow. Yeah, it's gonna be a big event and they do it every year. And it's big and I think, I think you'll love it. And I know they'll love the opportunity to talk to you. Well, thank you. Yes, calendars are crazy. I have a lot of things going on. I've got substance abuse, prevention and treatment. I was recently appointed to the Southern States Energy Board. There's a lot going on, but yes, I applaud you and the groups that host this. And I'll work on, and I'll take a closer look at my calendar. Absolutely. I'll contact your office and we'll figure it out. And again, I thank you so much for being here. And let's hope we get a nice turnout at the committee hearings. Thank you. Okay, Mark. Terrific. Okay, so we do have our good friends waiting in the wings here. And that is Amy and Jim. And they're here to talk about Donald J. Trump. And so we'll do that in one minute. But first, we're going to sell a few things. And let me remind people that for a great dinner tonight, you can go to Wendy's. And Wendy's is right down the street here in Chesterfield. It's at 18,000 Chesterfield Airport Road. And they have great food. They've got wings. They've got smoked meat. They've got hamburgers, cheeseburgers, patty melts with lots of great onions on them. That's one of my favorites. They've got baby-backed ribs. They've got onion rings, which that's, I just love onions, so that really works. And I can tell you right now that everybody loves Wendy's. And all you have to do is go to 18,000 Chesterfield Airport Road. And you will have just a wonderful meal. And you'll always go back because it's just that good. And of course, if you happen to be somewhere else in Missouri, like defiance, well, there you go. There's another Wendy's in defiance at 29.99, South Highway 94. And they are the same great people that own this Wendy's and as well provide the greatest food that you will love. So again, Wendy's, check them out. Now, the great jewelry store that I work with is of course, Jules on Hampton. And Jules on Hampton is at 4506 Hampton in St. Louis. And I have to tell you, my friend Al and his son, AJ, they're always there. They're always welcoming everybody that comes in. They love the public. They work closely with everybody. They're very friendly. And they make good deals because people want to buy and sell jewelry and coins. And this is the place to go. The people at Jules on Hampton, they're fair. They're just very good people who want to work with you. And on top of all of that, and you go in there and look at their cases filled with jewelry, beyond all of that, and they're designing that they do. They design jewelry, but they do fix watches. And they're really good at it. Jules on Hampton, that is 4506 Hampton in St. Louis. If you're looking for great men's clothing, the place to go is the St. Louis Sioux Company in Clayton. And I can tell you, they've been there for 30 years and they're there for a reason. People love them. And everybody loves that $5 tie, that $5 tie that looks like $50. I mean, it's beautiful. Lots of great designs, they're silk ties. And all you have to do is just go to Central and Forsyth, walk upstairs, and there you are, the St. Louis Sioux Company. And of course, if you're getting married, you want to be there too, because they are wonderful when it comes to wedding attire. And I can also say that with the weather at 100 degrees, the overcoat time is coming right down the road. So you think it's going to be 100 every day? No, it is going to quickly, like in about October, let's say, head south, the temperature. And when it does, you're going to need an overcoat and you're going to go to the St. Louis Sioux Company in Clayton. Now, my good friends, where are you? There you are. I'm here. Amy and Jim. How are you? Well, I'm there. How are you doing? No, I'm great. How are you? Everything's fine here. Are you in St. Louis, Amy? I'm not. OK. I wanted to be there, but I couldn't. No. I'm actually in Michigan City. OK. So you're in Michigan? Well, I'm just on the state line. OK. Well, it's good to be in Michigan, because that was one of the polls that came out this morning. That one shows Kamala ahead by, I believe, it's three in Michigan. And of course, she's ahead by eight in Wisconsin. What do you think? Well, you remember the polls back in-- back with Trump and Hillary Rand? I don't put too much faith in polls. OK. I don't know, I guess, they're up and down. They're up and down. I haven't seen them today. I haven't seen them at all, all week, because I've been at the beach, spending more time there, trying to get politics out of my mind. No, the beach is a good place. Yes, it is. Yeah. That's why I'm so red right now. I apologize. No, that's a good thing. And along the way with the polls, the ones I just gave you, that was morning consult. And then there's USA Today, Suffolk. And they came out yesterday and said that Kamala is ahead nationally by five. But of course, this is a state-by-state election. And these other polls that came out, which were actually Fox. And Donald went berserk, screaming at Fox, telling them their polling is stupid. They don't know what they're doing, because they came out and said that the Kamala is running plus two in Georgia, plus two in Nevada. Donald is running plus one in North Carolina. But of course, it was plus six a month ago. It's now narrowed to plus one. And again, this is Fox. So, you know, something's happening out here. What do you think it is? You know, I don't understand. I mean, what's changed? What do you think has changed that would make anyone sway either way, because I mean, Kamala really hasn't been out discussing policy. Last night was her first real interview, which was-- I mean, if you-- But too good. But she did like five minutes worth of talking. And I mean, I personally didn't get anything out of it. I still don't know what her policy is. I would love to know. I think-- Well, she flip-flopped online. That's what they're talking about online right now. What she did talk about. Yeah, and I know that originally, when-- back in '20, when she said that she was against fracking and all these other things. And then last night, she said she was for it. No, no, I just-- I'm sorry, I misspoke. She did not say that. She said that she was still following Bidenomics in all of the policy that Biden put forth. Well, she did say that she would not stop fracking. She said that, you know, very clearly. And she said that in 2019, she had been against fracking. But that subsequently, she decided with the science-- again, that's what she says-- that as a result of the science, that she thinks that the fracking can go on, and that it won't cause any damage to the climate. Because there are other things that are being done to mitigate those climate problems. So I understand that the people on your side hear that and go ballistic because you figure that she's somehow flip-flopping. But could it be an accurate description of what happened that she learned something and changed her mind? Sure, I think that'd be great, too. But I think that shows that maybe she didn't do her homework before. I mean, I don't know. I think that when you change your policies as much as she's kind of been changing hers the last couple of weeks, which we're not exactly sure about. Again, she hasn't been answering any questions regarding policy, which is all I care about. We still just really don't know where she stands. In one minute, she's saying she's for something that she was against. And then I really just don't know. I don't think anybody really knows. Yeah, I was on the-- Oh, sorry, go ahead. I just wish that-- well, first of all, I wish she hadn't had walls on last night with her. I wish it was just a one-on-one so that we could get more time with her. I think the American people want that and deserve it. I just-- I don't understand what she's waiting for. Well, she's going to get it-- she's going to get it. You're going to get it in 11 days because she's going to be standing on stage with Donald. And I have to say that if she can keep up with-- or I'm sorry, if Donald can keep up with her, then it would be an interesting situation. A lot of people think that she's going to crush him and that this will be the final blow for him. But we're going to find out. I mean, there's no question. I mean, I was on another radio show today and this was somebody who's strongly supportive of Donald. And essentially, he said that the way he sees it, Kamala is going nowhere, that there is no excitement in the country for her, that this is all being made up by somebody in the media, and that, in fact, Donald's on his way to an easy win. What do you think? I think all of that's important. Is it accurate? I don't know. I mean, I think what's the problem is, nobody believes the media anymore. So nobody's really sure who to believe-- And by the way, I do. You believe the media? Yeah, we're-- I believe almost every word. Except for what you just said about that one. No, no, no, no, no. Listen, listen, here's the thing. Take the New York Times. You ever read the Times? I don't read the Times, but I read the Times without actually reading the Times, yeah. OK, so what I'm asking is, the New York Times has been around since 1858. It's truly the most important newspaper in the United States. Do you really think that it's less than credible? If it's biased, yes. Who owns that paper? Who owns that still? I guess Salzberger. What about it? Well, the New York Times has to be backed by somebody. I mean, it's not-- Well, yeah, but reporters have very high standards that they learn in journalism school, places like University of Missouri, which is considered to be the best in the country, unless you talk about Columbia University, which is also one of the best in the country. They're both maybe one and two. I mean, people who go to those kinds of schools, they're taught that they have to adhere to these standards. Do you think that doesn't exist anymore? Let me ask you, when Trump was president-- And regardless of what your opinion is or my opinion, the fact of the matter is, he did a lot of good things. Like? I mean, one of the very few people that actually kept almost every promise that he did in his campaign, he actually came through on. What did he do? Now, did the New York Times talk about much of that stuff? I mean, did they? Yeah, well, they explained that he was indicted four times. He has now become a convicted felon on 34 counts of felony, and-- You know better than that. What was that? Is he a convicted felon? He shouldn't be because those charges shouldn't have never been brought up. That's it. Do you not talk about the judicial system as a weapon, which they're supposed to be? I think that with the liberal side and the conservative side, that there's-- we see it as an attack on Trump. And it's made up. It's not necessarily made up. But I want to ask you, as far as that goes, can we talk about Hillary Clinton and how she did the same exact thing? But she got different charges and-- Well, no, she didn't do the same thing. And what she did is she used her personal email for things that she wasn't supposed to. But wait, but it wasn't anything serious. I mean, what did they find? Emails about her wedding, her daughter's wedding, and junk like that, I mean, she didn't do anything. I mean, I don't know-- I'm speaking about the Steele dossier. The Steele dossier? That's all debunked. Well, some of the things that you have to think about. That's nothing. Hillary doesn't have anything to do with any of that. Would you do get that from CNN, or what? Probably Joe Scarborough and Mika, I guess. The Steele dossier has pretty much been proven true. I mean, OK, so can we-- Let's see. We can do anything you like. What I think is most important right now, as far as this goes, is we have a very short period of time before the election. And unfortunately, I used to be a Democrat. We've already discussed that on prior previous shows. I don't understand why she will not discuss her policies just straightforward. I mean, you've got Trump out on the trail stopping every two days in a different city. And he has laid it out there, black and white, for everyone to see, for everyone to know. Why won't she do that? Well, in the first place, here's what he's laying out. Here's what he's laying out. He says, Kamala isn't black. He says that-- Yeah, I've seen her-- well, you can talk about her birth certificate if you'd like, and what her dad and her uncle-- I mean, her aunt said-- Well-- Or do I say the back of what they said? Well, here's my-- well, OK, so we'll stop on that one. I was going to bring up some others. So how about this? Is Kamala black? No. I think that she may have some ancestors, but not within the last, what, three-- She used to say she was-- her big thing was that she was Indian. Well, she is. She is part Indian. But now she's turned black because it fits the narrative. Do you know what AKA is? AK-- also known as? Or-- Alpha Kappa-- Alpha Kappa Alpha, which is-- Oh, you're-- which is-- You know, one of the divine nine-- Yes. --you know, sorority things. And for black people, OK, that's for black women. And long ago, when she was in college, she became a member of AKA. I mean, she's always been black. Is it specifically for black people, or is it for people of color? Well, they're black. So are-- so are Indian. Well, that's right. So they're-- so she's black. What her father claims to be, can do an Irish, and her mother is claiming to be of Middle Eastern. OK, well, that's true, but he's-- he was from Jamaica, and he's black. Well, you can be born in Africa and be white as-- Well, that-- OK, and you can be born anywhere and be black and say that you're Irish. I mean, you know, and you could be. That's fine, but they are black. I mean, here is-- is a Barack Obama-- is Barack Obama black? I don't-- his mother's white. Yeah. I believe-- I don't know. Well, but wait, but the man is black. I mean, right-- But why is that an issue? Well, because Donald's made it an issue. And last night, when Dana Bash asked Kamala, said, look, Donald says you're not black. Are you black? And what was her answer? Next question. She won't answer because it's stupid. Or-- because she doesn't want to tell a lie on public-- has she ever come out and actually said it? Yes. Yes. In fact, at the Democratic Convention, they had video of her saying something that's actually not true, that she's African-American, which she is not. But that's not the point. She's black. And anyway, here's the thing. If you're black, you're still African-American because you've got African roots. You know, she's always said she's black. Where's your African roots come from? Well, if you're black, you've got roots back to Africa. Actually, we all do for that matter, but-- All do. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Sure. So, OK. So what about your definition of somebody being black? What makes them black in your eyes? If they are black, and they say they're black, then they're black. But I'm going to ask you a question real quick because I know we ain't got a whole lot of time. But I want to know your opinion. You can't be happy with her choice of vice president. Do you like Waltz? You know, I like him. He's a good guy. He's done a lot of great things in Minnesota. But what I have preferred Shapiro, personally, I would have preferred Shapiro. Mainly because I think that that would be a better shot at getting Pennsylvania. But, subsequently, because she is running the table all over the country, it looks like she's going to get Pennsylvania anyway. So in that respect, maybe she was smart. Well, I mean, the guys, you talk about not like in Donald Trump because you say such a liar. And has he lied, absolutely. I mean, you know, what politician has it. But Waltz is everything the guy says is a lie. I mean, he would go, what did he coach, the national title, the national championship. But it was a junior high school or something. Well, no, no, he admitted that it was high school. The thing is, is that he was what they call an assistant coach. But the point is that assistant coaches are called coach. OK, and why did he, my memory shows me, why did he get fired? Fire for what, from where? He decided. He was a coach. No, no, no, he decided to run for-- He got a DUI. Oh, oh, well, you know, I've heard something about the DUI thing. I don't even know if that's true or not. But here's the thing. If he had a DUI, you know, George W. Bush had a DUI. OK, I mean, people have DUI's. And if you don't keep doing it and you get yourself under control, then that's a good thing, right? No, he's still lying to this day, but OK. Well, did George W. Bush have a DUI? What's that? He did. He did. And that's OK. Yeah. You know, I'm a big believer in if we don't need to make it personal outside of certain things. When people are president in this country, I think we're really hooked on their personal lives sometimes, and to a certain extent, of course, that has everything to do with their character, you know, their ethics, values, and morals. I understand that. But there are just some things that really aren't our business. And presidents, vice presidents, people in any position, in any career have a right to have privacy. So there's some things that I don't like to bring up about people just because I don't think that it's fair. Everybody makes mistakes. But I think my biggest problem with Walsh is that, and even last night, he said, when he was asked by that interviewer about his lives, he said, well, my wife says I have something about-- I have issues with my grammar. That's what he said. And so he basically kind of admitted that he understood that he's made some lies, or he has embellished the truth of it. Because of the truth of grammar. OK, so you know that J.D. Vance, first of all, who told Kamala yesterday, the day before, to go to hell. First of all, is that OK? Well, I don't like when men talk to women like that at all. But I don't like when anyone, anyone like that, but I don't know the subject of the conversation. I truthfully wish she would, but I don't think he should be saying it from his point. Here, I didn't want him to pick Vance. That wasn't a choice of mine. Who would I like to sing? Several people. Josh Hawley, Candace Owens, Ted Cruz. Condoleezza Rice. I mean, if you put a woman with color. Yeah, OK, Condoleezza Rice is one thing. The other ones, if you keep saying that, Jim, I might have some kind of-- I might have to go to the hospital. So, yeah, don't-- Do you like Candace Owens? Do I like why? You like Candace Owens? No, no, no, no, very bad. I adore Candace Owens. OK, she's a black woman. What's the difference? What's the difference? Very right, but-- She's actually black, by the way. Well, there, you know. Good point. That's a real black woman. So is Barack Obama. You may be a Republican. Barack Obama is not only black, but he's an American. Do you believe that? Donald says he's from Kenya. But I'm not going to vote for someone based on their skin color, or I'm going to vote on someone based on first or most policy. That's what everyone should be voting on. All this other stuff is fluff, and it's unnecessary, and it's wrong. We should be voting on policy. OK, so on the policy side, let's try this one. Today, the Dow Jones Industrial Average closed at an all-time high. It had a drop about three weeks ago when there was a problem with Japan, that wasn't us. And it has come roaring back, and brand new highs. What do you think? Because Donald used to say that if the stock market's going up, then it proves that he is successful. Why did it take them so long? And why was it so bad in the first place? Because it has been bad for the last two years. What has? It's been straight up. Yes, I apologize. Yeah, that's all right. No, the stock market's gone straight up. Straight up. Well, it wasn't looking great for a while. Well, yeah, during Donald, yeah. Well, no, really. Because it was COVID, and it went down. But since then, it's gone almost straight up. A couple of pickups. And again, COVID, again, rebound. So we had the decline, which I agree with. When COVID hit, we had a decline. Obviously, people weren't working. People was a bad situation. Now we have rebound. Everyone's getting back to work. Everyone's spending. But now it's going the other direction. Oh, wait, wait, wait. What about the other direction? It's going up. It's going up. The wages are going up? Inflation went way up to-- 2.9% right now. Thank you for today, for today. Well, that's pretty good. Today's a good day. A couple of three, until then. Well, why am I still paying $360 for a gun again? Well, no, come on. I paid $307 last night. We spent $220 at the grocery store. And because you're hungry. We got about five or six little bags. Yeah, because you're hungry. Yeah, I understand. And you're filling those bags up with lobster. OK, I get it. Yeah. Lobster. Mainly Raymond Noodle. Yeah, yeah. Lobster and the expense of steaks. But listen, I want your family to eat. Well, they should. But don't blame it on Joe. He's good. I believe it's on inflation, which I blame on high federal payouts to Ukraine, immigration crisis. I blame it on debt. You know, Donald says that immigrants are coming over here. And they're taking all of our Social Security money. You've heard that? I've heard that. OK, so I had a guy on the air just before you. He's a Missouri state legislator. They're having a meeting on September 3 at the main St. Louis Library. And they're doing research. And it's a public hearing for people to come and find out about immigrant crime, which, as he pointed out, is practically non-existent. How do they know? How can they come up with that information when they don't know how many people are here in the first place? They don't have facial recognition. They don't have documentation. You cannot come up with the number out of the air when you don't even know how many people are in this country, illegally. Yeah. Well, all of that having been said, the people seem to be flocking to Kamala. The numbers are enormous. 20,000, 15,000, and Donald is struggling to get anybody to show up at all. I was just at his rally. OK. I just went to one of them. Yeah. Pretty good. I have all sandy pictures. Yeah, pretty good, just not Kamala. Well, I haven't been to any of hers, so I don't know. But I can tell what I went to was a lot of fun. Yeah. So everything's chaotic. So, you know, in 70 days, roughly, you know, give or take, we're going to find out the answer to all of this. We'll see. You know, I would say that Kamala has a great chance of winning nationally by 10, which would easily get through the electoral college. And Donald will say when he loses that it was stolen. And then that'll be a fight. That's my prediction. We'll see. What do you think? I think he might say that. I think he would say that. I think that a lot of people might say that. But we've seen what they did in the last election, so that would be an assumption. OK. Well, listen to you all, you know, as always, I love having you. And there's so many things going on and things to look at and things that are being said. And it's great for us to bounce it back and forth. And, you know, when you get to St. Louis, Amy, I'm hoping that you'll be standing right next to me in the studio. I tried to last week. OK. I'll do it. I will do it. OK, so we'll work on that. And in the meantime, for the St. Louis School Company, for Jules on Hampton, for Wenty's Restaurant, I'm Mark Kason with Amy and Jim. This is Showdown. Good night.