[MUSIC] >> I lost to Bruins come in here and play an exceptional road game. And beat May believes by a score of four to one. Despite being outshot 33 to 30. >> I thought both teams played hard. I thought there appears a game where we were playing very well. And in the day, I think they capitalized in a couple of chances. And it's a difference. Whenever you can make a big save, especially one of those first three to hopefully not get down three nothing. >> I thought he was fine, you know, forced too many. But they defended their net a lot better than we defended our shoots. >> I thought Joseph battled and we got to get him going. We got to get him more games before we really start critiquing him. But I don't think he was certainly was not an issue for us today. [MUSIC] >> Good math, good job by you yesterday, May believes lose in regulation. First regulation loss this season to the Boston Bruins, but yeah, no, no wins against the Bruins. And yeah, they're boy, I don't dump it on the Leafs record. No, it's artificially inflated because of the overtime shootout wins yesterday. Leafs and Bruins were tied on goal difference and Leafs had a chance with a victory yesterday to control their own destiny as far as finishing the season same right as the Bruins. Cuz they would have been four points back with two games in hand, not the case after the regulation loss. And Austin Matthews goes wanting yes again, only one goal in his last five. >> So maybe he needs us back. The team wanted us to stay away, but Matthews needs us. >> Yeah, he does. His pace is though, despite this fallow point in the season. >> I haven't looked actually as I don't know. >> 71, he's still on pace for like, it's not gonna be worse than this for Austin Matthews, you know, like a hat trick is around the corner. Yeah, he's still on pace for 71 goals. To me, that was the most jarring thing. I was like clearly, I looked at the one goal in five goal games and I was like, okay, well, this is it, like man, the pace was so outrageous, he would have had to. He must be in the mid 60s somewhere still on pace for 71. So again, I don't know if it's gonna be worse than these last five games for Austin Matthews going forward, certainly the Maple Leafs hope it isn't. But yeah, I mean, even more bullish in my belief that he's gonna score 70, considering he hasn't basically scored the last half dozen games. And he's still on pace for over 70. >> Yeah, I feel like he's got, this is like, it's a wild thing to say about a guy he's had as many as he does. And it feels due for one more hat trick this season, doesn't he? >> At the very, very least. And yeah, there's some other teams that are, and they play off measuring stick games. But there's also a Buffalo Sabres team tomorrow. There's the Montreal Canadiens twice more this season. Again, look at the, and I know on the broadcast that we're showing at the record of the Maple Leafs within the Atlantic division and them finishing or them having a record only above the Montreal Canadiens intra division. But one, look at the record against the Senators and the Sabres. And two, look at the fact they've only played the Montreal Canadiens once. And it was game one of the season, was not their best 60 minute effort, but they did pick up the two points. Fair to say that that's probably, there's some points to be had in those games. Fair to be said, there's probably some points for the Leafs in games against the Penguins when they're officially eliminated from the postseason, which feels like now a matter of time, especially after they trade Jake Genssel. Like there's, there's, yeah, there's going to be plenty of, of, of point games for awesome Matthews down the stretch here. Oh, okay. Yes. I, I thought for a second you were talking about team success and I was about to remind you, no, this is the Leafs, Ben, they do that against good teams. It's the bad teams that they struggle in. You're right, Matthews, he's going to continue to rack up goals the way he has all season long. And yeah, the, the one in five, that's what happens. And with all great scores, they're all streaky. Every goal scorer in the world is streaky. The great ones are even more so. The differences is that the bad streaks are one in five, as opposed to, you know, nothing in 10. Like you'll see for some guys at various times. So yeah, I'd expect Matthews to, to bounce back. And again, you know, one goal in five, it's, it's not like he's been brutal in that stretch. But the thing about this team is they're built for him to score and he's got to do it. As far as the stepped up in the absence, Patuzzi has as well, but he needs to score for this team to be great. All right. So you heard from Sheldon Keefe there about Joseph Wall and needing a larger sample to before he starts critiquing, although it wasn't his fault that they lost the hockey and they only scored once in the one goal. To keep the, the not being shut out streak alive came in the third period off the stick of John Tavares. Thursday is the final regular season matchup between the Leafs and the Boston Bruins this season. As mentioned, have not picked up a victory yet. It does feel like you play this thing out that Samson obviously has to start tomorrow at home against the Sabres. It's going to be Wall again against the Bruins. So that will be the last sample we see between these two teams during the regular season. And it's just the regular season as we've come to know our last half decade. Plus is that regular season results cannot be extrapolated into the postseason. But will there be anything to take away? Like what if Joe Wall does get beat in a similar fashion against the Bruins on Thursday? And that's the last memory the Bruins have of him and it's a first round matchup. And you got to decide and it's like the performance is one in one a like there's not much departs between the two. Do these two games have the potential to actually impact the decision as far as who the game one starter is? I guess they should in theory. But I think that there's just so much road between now and when the playoffs start that yeah, you should point to these games and say this is the goalie. This is what is track records been against those team or against the team you're going against, but it's goaltending in the NHL. If you tell me something's connected to what happened last week, I have a hard time believing that so extrapolating this to two months from now when you're potentially having a playoff series. I'm not saying it's nothing. I'm not saying you completely throw it out, but I'm way closer to throwing it out than I am reading a lot into it. Yeah, I mean, if you're really going to get back in the way back machine and you can look at those regular season matchups between the Leafs and senators during the regular season, how much the center does just own the Leafs during the regular season and then things change a little bit just a bit in the postseason. I will say though that the opposite is like I do look at Jeremy Swamman as hey, if he continues his strong run of play against the Leafs who was he was instrumental in picking up the victory yesterday, the Bruins benefited by a couple of posts and it's some help retrieving a puck off a goal line yesterday and great whistle by the rough and a great whistle by the referee. I will say that there is an element of yeah, a goaltender being in your head in in that manner. We'll see if we'll see if even starts in that game against the Leafs on Thursday back in Boston. All right. Now time for our insider who was brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom, visit Don Valley North Lexus dot com. Today's insider Nick Kiprio, so real Kipper and born. How's it going, Kipper? Well, good morning, guys. Morning. All right. Let's start here. I'm not your for the Leafs today, the Rangers or the Bruins. Gee, let me think they played Saturday and beat the Rangers. Yeah, I played Boston last night and lost miserably. I'll go Rangers. Yeah. Seems obvious, right? Yeah. They're guaranteed to win a first round series against the New York Rangers that they fall into a wildcard spot. Well, we kind of felt differently before the game started last night, that's for sure, that it would have been a better match up against Boston. But yeah, for whatever reason, they just, they didn't have it. Matthews didn't have it. And when you kind of are in a situation where you take time and space away from from marner and Matthews, it kind of trickles down the whole lineup. So credit to the Boston Bruins. They were really good last night and it was led by Pasternak. Yeah, I mean, Pasternak was tremendous. That was a really, really strong road win. You know, you, you played in the league a long time. You know, the idea of, you know, teams and this would never, of course, happen to you. But other people, Nick, it's like, you know, teams getting other teams heads and you can have a bit of an older brother phenomenon. Do you think that one, the Leafs have changed enough and there's been so much removal from the kind of playoff rivalry between these two that that no longer plays in? Or do you still think there is a little bit of a kind of big brother, little brother element when these two teams kind of stack up? Well, I for one think that if they do face the Boston Bruins, it would be kind of like a little bit of poetic justice if they can get through them. For sure. No, no question that it would be nice. It reminded me of getting traded to the New York Rangers and we had a great season, of course, in '94, winning the regular season and the Stanley Cup, but there's a feeling about late March where we haven't done anything until we can beat the New York Islanders. And it was a crazy game in Long Island, but that one was a psychological huge win for us despite having so much success in the regular season. And I know there's another game coming up this week against Boston, but it would be nice if the Leafs went in there and found a way to win. And just if in fact that in all probability they will meet, there's one game that you can still hang your hat on with what 20 games to go in the season. So I think the next one coming up one is a Thursday. Yeah. Yeah, that one's kind of a make up one here and it's going to be a night where you have to have your stars going again, you have to Matthews, Marner, someone has to step up like Pasternak stepped up last night and you're going to have to have better goal-tending. And my goodness, to start the game, don't give up a breakaway in the first 12 seconds because that is that is the first sign that you're not ready to play. Yeah. They had a strong like five minutes after that. And then the first power play looked abysmal and they were lucky not to be scored on short-handed in that hockey game. And yeah, it does feel like it would be poetic justice, a justice if the Leafs needed to go through the Bruins to win their first Stanley Cup in 50 plus years, but kind of said the same thing about beating the lightning last year and then, oh, well, they're down three o to the Panthers. Oh, wouldn't it be poetic to come all the way back to the Red Sox thing from off? I said, like, yeah, I've done that more than a few times gunner. That's not the first time you've romanced anything. So I'm with you. No, no, it's not. I, you know, me, I get a little romantic there there, Kipper. In terms of this team, the what you need from this group, right? It maxed, owe me a 2c. It seems to have opened things up, but it's not his play that's been jumping out to me. It's been what you've got at a John Tavares. He scores the long goal last night. He does it at five on five. I know you love to see that part. What are you seeing from Tavares that's different? Is it the match up that's different? Are they just asking less of him? Is he able to play the game a different way with these new line mates? Obviously, the role has opened things up for him. But what is it about that you think that's kind of allowing him to thrive? Well, the one thing about John is he's he's not an easy skater to watch just in terms of he works harder than most when he skates. And it's not that he's an absolute poor skater, but he's the one that labors out there. So, and I was the same way and, you know, there's just sometimes the guys can skate all night and they're fantastic skaters and it's effortless, but that's not that's not John. So, the one thing that you notice right away with John is if he's got legs or not, and if he if they're strong legs and if they're they're they're hard on perhaps a four check or he shoots the puck better when he's got legs behind him. And last night, again, was a prime example where he steps over the blue line and lets a rocket go for a goal. So, if he's got his legs, then then I think there's an opportunity there as a kind of a third guy, third line guy that can come in and bounce around, see a little bit of power play, maybe get bumped up to the front line every once in a while if, you know, you're pressing or need a goal. So, there's a lot of flexibility with John, but, you know, for John to now fit in nicely with a Bobby McMahon in a yarn crock, certainly he's going to have to keep his energy up. And the sense of urgency for him to play well when he's on the ice is there. It's not necessarily there all the time when you're a top six guy and it's just there's the assumption that you're going to go out there and play a minute and a half or minute 50 seconds on the power play plus your regular line in the rotation. So, I'm seeing a much robust kind of play out of a John Tavares. The whole key in all of this is that, you know, he keeps those legs going and they're fresh and they're ready to play. Yeah, not a ton of questions for that line. It's been real good and even yesterday was good and of course scored the only goal of the hockey game for the Leafs. The second line is the one I think a lot of people are curious as to how that's going to look in the postseason with Max Domie in the middle of Tyler Bertuzzi and William Kneelander. Is that something Brad for living will try to address before Friday? How do you view the Domie-led second line? Yeah, it'll be interesting to see if they're able to pluck any more depth up front and you know whether or not they are interested in another centerman. Lars Aller's names come up, Wenberg's out there a little between the Rangers and Colorado. There seems to be a race towards a centerman. But if that's the case and you've got to stick with these guys for me, Willie Kneelander has to find a better way to compete again, especially in his own zone, you know, that he got benched Saturday night for what the last eight minutes of the first period. Quite the flyby. Yeah, quite the flyby. And yeah, that line, if they're going to stay together, has to find a way to get the job done in their own zone. And right now it's a challenge for sure. And I think Max is being really good up until this point. But you know, Willie Kneelander for them to stay together right now. Willie's got to be a guy that doesn't cheat for his offense. And that's an issue right now. Yeah, it is. And you know, great players cheat. And guess what? When you cheat and score, we feel a little differently about it when it's not going in. And you mentioned Pasternak, right? Those two guys are always going to be tied at the hip. And it's just you see the blueprint there. And you know, Pasternak's a better player. And you see Kneelander, the ticket he's at now, he's in that realm. And you, you do need him to kind of be that guy. Ah, the Leafs did some shopping last week, pick it up Labushkin. They got double retention on that. So you wonder if they're going to be, they're going to be active again. Is the most important thing they can pick up? And I know we just talked about a center there, but whether it be a center, whether it be a defenseman, whether it be a winger for all I care, does the guy, should they have one more trade in them? Does that guy need to be a great penalty killer? Because I still look at that as the thing that is probably most likely going to undo this team. And I know goaltending and penalty kill go hand in hand, but that seems to me like the one kind of personnel issue this team still has, you know, with the domi line taking hold, the forward group fits together much better. But I still keep coming back to, you know, the penalty kill. And is it, I don't know that it's a coaching issue. It feels like more of a roster and personnel issue to me. Well, you could just, you want to win rounds. You want to play for two months in the spring. You need depth. There's no question. And if you can get somebody that can come in and help on that, then yeah, all the more power to you. But I don't know between now and Friday what is out there? Where's his attention been? Has it been on finding another right handed shot? Like 12 14 other teams are doing right now. Do you have the assets? Do you have an opportunity to go a little bigger with a defenseman and a forward package deals? Like whatever the case is right now, Brad tree living's running out of time. Like all general managers at Friday three p.m. This is it. And right now I don't think anybody's comfortable with this roster to make a deep run. Can they get some hot gold tending? Can they get a hot power play out? That's the way they're going to have to win in the first round. But to do it over and over and over again to get to a Stanley Cup final, man. Yeah, there's there's still some work to do for Brad tree living till Friday three p.m. Does Joe wall getting that start yesterday after Samson off looks so good on Saturday indicate anything to you as far as how they view these goalies? Okay, that that one was a tough one to read. Samson off I think came off the ice early yesterday and everybody just assumed and I did on our show that it was going to be Samson off and perhaps they want to take wall a little slower coming back off over two months, which kind of made sense a little bit because Samson off was so good Saturday night. And then there lo and behold, it's wall last night. And one that, you know, didn't give you a tremendous amount of confidence in terms of, you know, where he is right now. And that's fine because he is trying to get back to a place where it was really good before he got hurt. And it may take a little bit of time here, but collectively, you know, from top to bottom, they just weren't there. Like I said, they weren't ready on the first shift. And and they're gonna have to rebound this week for sure to come back and start finding some energy again to to get ready for the playoffs. 20 games is going to go by with a snap of the finger. I assure you. And last night didn't give a good feeling for anyone, including Joseph wall. Yeah, it'll go by lightning quick. You know, it's funny with the back to back coming up because I can sit here and tell myself whatever story I want about the decision that Sheldon Keith makes, right? If he goes to Samson off tomorrow, you say, well, it's the next guy rotation, but it's also the first half of the back to back. And traditionally, you would give that to the guy you feel stronger about. But I could also easily say, no, you want to give the stronger goaltender against Boston, because you want to see the best version of your team against the team. You can entirely, you can entirely, you know, envision yourself seeing in the playoffs here. On one hand, that kind of protects Keith from the narrative of all this, right? Because you can, we, he's not going to come out nakedly and say, yeah, I like Samson off way better than wall right now or vice versa. It's good. We're going to have to parse the words. And it does feel like the circumstances allow allow us to all kind of tell whatever story we want with the goaltending right now in terms of the decisions he makes for these next two games. At least that's my read on it. Yeah, I, I would definitely think now that you're going to come back with Samson off against the sabers and then go to Joseph Wall against Boston on Thursday. And outside of that, there's, there's, there's the threat that we're going to accuse him of overthinking this if it doesn't turn out well. He would be the only one because I'm overthinking it every day, Kipper. He's, he's a, he's a genius if, if he gets two wins now with Samson off and wall on Thursday, but he's overthinking it if he doesn't. So I think the whole idea behind the goaltending from here on end is that you do not put the weight of the world on, on walls, shoulders, you know, the last 20 games. And you find a way to kind of get them ready. I think if they had truth serum, they really feel a lot more comfortable with Joseph Wall starting game one in the Stanley Cup playoffs. There's a calmness to him. When he's on, he's, he looks like he's as good as any goalie in the league. But we had only short sample sizes of that, including a stretch where he before he got hurt where he was as good as any goaltending we've seen in the last 20, 25 years with Toronto Maple Leafs. So that I think is still the game plan here. But the whole idea is not to put the heavy workload on him towards this, especially with his reputation for getting hurt. So I believe we'll see Samson off and wall rotate the next two games before that you go. I want to talk about the article you wrote on the Toronto star about the Matt Rempe situation and, and what was a highly anticipated bout between he and Ryan Reeves. Maybe the actual fight itself didn't live up to the hype, but it was just half decent. And certainly the game was spectacular on Saturday. And the fight was great. Yeah, it's a good one. I mean, it's a high bar though with him and some of the fights he's already had in his brief NHL career. So this is hard because I think the three of us and we all enjoy that element of the game clearly. And this is a young kid. I don't know if you can continue at this pace. But yeah, is there a way to, to, to like that and want more of it, but also not put somebody at personal risk like it's, it's a difficult conversation because I think the sport is better and more unique and more entertaining when that's a part of it. But I understand this is a person who's putting his future health on the line. Well, first of all, I don't think we have to worry about the pace. There's just not enough guys out there for him to go every night and find someone to dance with. So I don't think you need to worry about that. This is a kid who wanted to make a name for himself, who, who, who nobody heard of what two weeks ago to right now, the talk of the league and the attention that he's gotten and the scrums and the media and the fan base is all, is all great for him. And it's done what it was supposed to do. But he also knows, and I think people around him are smart enough to understand that he's going to have to be that guy that goes in on the four checks and scares the living crap out of every player that's got to go face first into the glass. And his, his value to the Rangers is off a four check. His value is to make Labushkin push the puck up and, and, and, and move it when he's not ready to move it and turn the puck over. And that's how he's going to end up making a living, not, not, not the fights. And you know, the yesterday on Real Kipper and Borne, I talked about just the fact that he still fought it with five minutes to go in the third period when, you know, the game's basically almost over just in terms of the time left on the clock. And, you know, usually those guys in that situation, they're not, their job isn't to fight. It's to deter the other team from taking liberties on certain players. And, you know, in that aspect, I, I would, if it was me, I would have gone after him a little sooner to remind him that, you know, you're not doing what you did to Bastion against New Jersey and running him over and knocking him out of the game. But this guy, when he four checks, man, he's like a missile on skates. Like you don't, he's scaring people. You, you know, he when he's on the ice as a defenseman. And you also know when you have to go back and get a puck and he's coming at you. And it's going to make you do things that you don't want to do for sure. So that's, that's the secret to this guy's longevity. It's not dropping the gloves. No, I think that's, I think that's really, really well, well said. And yeah, it is, it's just, it is remarkable to me. And you, you were there. We all saw you on camera there, Kipper. You were, you were there on Saturday night. But, you know, this is a league with Conor McDavid and Sidney Crosby and Conor Medard and, you know, pick your other star player that you'd pay money to watch. The fans in that building aren't hooting and hollering when they're on the ice, but they were doing it for Matt Rempe. Like it, it's kind of nuts. The one question I had for you about this, and I think I know the answer, but why would I bother thinking when I could just ask someone who knows is now I want to be clear. I have no push back to the start of Rempe's career. Good. Great job. But you've heard all the noise of this is probably a player who feels as though he has to fight. Do you think he had to fight Ryan Reeves on, on Saturday night? Did he have to or would that of, you know, ding the legacy or the start of his career, whoever you want to put it? Like what would have, what would it have done to who Matt Rempe is in this league? If the get, cause it almost played out that way where the game script just did not happen for the fight to unfold. Did he have to take that fight on Saturday night? Cause of who Reeves is in this league in the kind of heavyweight packing order for lack of a better term? You know, I was really, really surprised that a guy like this who's so young and inexperienced would wait to five minutes of the third period. So to answer your question, no, I don't think he, he thought he needed to take the fight. And again, he was out there on an occasion or two with, with Ryan Reeves and they didn't fight. And usually with a guy with an experience is just chomping at the bit to, to go out there and, and, and get it over with. I thought it was, it was telling to, to, to your question that he didn't have to think he needed to take the fight because even up until the last five minutes of the third period, when he hadn't fought, he looked over to the bench. He, it was almost like he needed mum, mum and dad's approval. Get in there. Go ahead, buddy. Can I, can I have this extra, you know, can I have this extra hamburger, please? Yeah. It's a ham, it's a ham sandwich. Yeah. So, um, I think he's, he's absolutely fine. I think he showed a ton of maturity by just going out there and playing. And the whole key, you know, like I said, like Ryan Reeves needed to be a deterrent out there. So you're, you're thinking twice, listen, I knew when I was out there with some tough guys, there were times when I laid off a hit, knowing that if I took a good lick onto somebody that I'd have to deal with him right away. So you pick and choose what you do when you do it and the consequences that come with it. And it, Ryan Reeves didn't, didn't scare Rebbe from, from running at Labushkin. So, so this guy, he's got what it takes to, to do that job for a very long time. And that is that he's not scared to do it. And there's going to be a good part of him that actually likes to do it. Like when, listen, I tried my best to, to play a certain role, but I ran out of gas after what eight, nine years. When you think about the guys that have done it for 20 years, tie domy, Rob Ray, you know, Tiger Williams, when you look at those guys that are all on the top of the list, historically, they all have one thing in common. They loved it. They didn't mind it and brought it every night. They had longevity in their careers. And, you know, and I hope that they're all still, you know, doing well. I watch Rob Ray do color commentating on Buffalo Saber games and he sounds and looks great, you know. So, you know, there, there is the guys that aren't hurting right now and living productive lives. Yet they, they were able to do this for 20 years. I don't know where Rempy falls in, in all of this. I, I hope that he's smart enough to think that he doesn't have to do it for 20 years or he, you know, he doesn't have to fight. I mean, those guys fought because every time they played, there was two or three heavyweights on each team. Rempy doesn't have to worry about that. Hey, he's probably fought already three of the toughest guys in the league and much like right handed defenseman, there's not that many out there. So, you know, he's, he's fine. Go and play buddy. Go and keep working on your skating. Work on your shot. Do all the things that can make you a better hockey player. And, and as long as you have that element of six foot seven and a half and the ability to get in on a four checkman, you are going to make a lot of money, a lot of money. Yeah. That was a whole lot of fun on Saturday as well. Kipper, I always appreciate it. Thanks, man. Okay, guys, have a great day. You too. Nick Kiprios, real Kipper and born. He was our insider brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom, visit Don Valley, North Lexus.com. Yeah, it's just, it's a victim of the schedule. I mean, he's also a beneficiary of the schedule, but yeah, it's, this is probably not going to continue at this rate. We're fighting it more than 50% of the games. It's remarkable. And I said that it is the, the same way now the NHL didn't do this for him. It just happened to work out this way. But the same way Connor Badard started his career with Sydney Crosby. And then it was into Toronto on the first week and Montreal for hockey night in Canada. It just, that's the breaks, baby. He comes in, he's been here for eight games. He's had him against Deloria and Revo and McDermott. Like there is just, there's only a handful of those guys. And he's gotten them. I don't want to say out of the way because it looks like he's having a blast to be perfectly honest. I don't think he feels so great about it in the aftermath of it, but I don't think this is a guy being forced to do something against his will either. And it's just them's the breaks. And honestly, yeah, would he like this spaced out over a month? Sure. But we wouldn't be talking about it if it was spaced out over a month. So sorry. Thank you. Sorry. And thank you, Matt Rempe, Rempire Stay Building. Yeah, that's good. Can't argue with that this Saturday, March 9th, 2 p.m. Toronto FC will be playing against Cincinnati FC at BMO Field to their home opener to enter for your chance to win tickets to the match. Text today's code word Cincinnati to 59590. Again, today's code word is Cincinnati, Texas into 59590 right now to enter for your chance to win tickets to Saturday's game. Additionally, Toronto FC also bringing back the official March to the match where hundreds of fans gather in celebration for the start of the season, the March to the parts, brazen head Irish pub 1230 p.m. You can expect alumni appearances and giveaways. If you don't win with us, you can also purchase tickets at ticketmaster.ca. When we come back, checking in on Florida, Ben Nicholson Smith, the Apple letters podcast next is the fan morning show continues Ben and his friend gunning sports at 599 the fan, the best blue Jay show out there. Period. Blair and Barker, be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. The one on high fly ball center field and Rojas won't even move in center. The first home run of the spring for Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and it was a ball, but yet takes the two two on the ground up the middle for a base in kind of a left by into score. Henry gets the way bill score over to third is George Springer and Boba she has driven in a pair. It's 3 1 Blue Jays 1 0 is lying the left field off the glove of the diving third baseman Wilson in down for a base in another run scores as Springer comes home and the blue Jays now lead four to one. Bad morning, Joe Sports, that 599 the fan Ben and his brand gunning. We are in the month in which the Toronto Blue Jays will play regular season baseball. Heart palpitations for you. Surely you must be ecstatic big time. But yeah, before we get to that point, they have to continue their to make it their grapefruit league season, which continues today in Bradenton against the pirates knew that one pirates. I mean, it's a panic time Jay's three and seven in Great Fruit League action. Okay, enough of that. Let's talk to Ben Nicholson Smith at the at the letters podcast in Florida. Are you in Bradenton today? I will be. That is we lose you already. Oh, you're there. You're crackling. Okay. Yeah. I think you're there. Right, Ben? I'm here. Yeah. All right. All right. Okay. I'll be succinct here. All right. Is how bad is it that the no structural damage for either Kevin Gossman or Alec Manoa like you? Where's where should our panic meter rating be those two guys being backed off a little bit with with various degrees of arm injury? I don't think it's time to panic, but at the same time, this is not good. This is not at all how you line it up. These are really important arms for this team. And we're getting to the point now that it's just a few weeks away from the opening of the season. So if you don't have those guys pitching off a mound, let alone in games, let alone to the points that there are three, four innings stretched out, then you have some real questions. So not saying that there can't be good answers to those questions. We'll see how they resolve themselves. But I think at this point, the starting rotation for this team is definitely in flux. Yeah, obviously they would like there to be no downgrade from last season. You'd love Alec Manoa to to refind his form. But I think we've all talked about the possibility of some negative regression from or I guess just regression be a better way to put it from from this rotation. How much of a downgrade or how much regression can this team afford to have? Because you know, we expect the bats to hopefully be a little better. But this team is still going to win the bulk of its ballgames. I would think based on the strength of starting pitching, like how much of a step back in this team afford for that group to take and still be playoff contenders? Well, I think they can afford to start the season with one of Manoa or Gosman not fully ramped up because they do have found in Francis who is a major league ready arm. He is good to go. He has pitched up to 140 plus innings in the minor leagues. Everyone raves about him. The stuff is there. The strike throwing is there. So that's one guy who can cover one of the spots. But the moment that you get to, okay, well, what happens after that? And now that the Blue Jays have two starters. So again, at this point in time, they're trying to ramp back up. The team is saying that they're optimistic, but they are not currently throwing off down two hitters. So at that point, what if you have to fill two gaps? And that's where you really get into trouble. You start getting into a situation where you might have to tax your bullpen way more than you wanted to. You might have to go to someone like a Mitch White or have a bullpen game in the fifth game of the season. Nobody wants that. I'm not saying that's where the Blue Jays are at this point in time, but you start to, the moment you have two starters dealing with some health issues, you really start to push the depth charge more than you want to. And that has a trickle down effect really from the first week of the season on potentially. Yeah. And maybe the starting pitching depth looks different as the season progresses. And Ariel Rodriguez establishes himself and stretches out a little bit. And maybe Ricky Tiedemann also establishes himself as the guy that can go 80 to 100 pitches. But it is an issue that we've talked about previously with this team. And thank goodness they were bailed out by 100 were you being a viable starting pitcher at times last season with the departure of Alec Manoa from the Major League roster. But how do you feel about the Blue Jays starting pitching depth? And is it like unusually thin? Well, I think you make a good point that it could shift for the better as the season progresses, right? And you have Chad Dallas too. He's a foreground pick who had really good numbers on his way up to double A last year. He's in big league camp. He's someone who's now in that mix as a starting pitcher candidate. So there are some options that could emerge even within four or five weeks. But right now you're not going to Tiedemann. I mean, he just threw one sim game and he's a top prospect. You can't rush this guy to fill a major league need. So he's kind of off the list. Ariel Rodriguez still working his way back from, you know, the back issues that he encountered. They want to be deliberate with him anyways. So he's not on the list. And you start looking at West Parsons and that's really not where you want to be as a competing team. Because again, this is a tough schedule to start the season. This is not a team that we projected necessarily be a 95 win team that has all these wins to play with anyway. If the Blue Jays are going to make the playoffs this year, they probably aren't going to do it by a huge margin. So that means that each marginal win is really important. And it means that you don't want to start the season on your back foot. Now, it's a long year, you know, missing a couple weeks of a starting pitcher. That would be fine. And teams are going to have to adapt from those types of challenges, whether it's in April or July or September. And that's part of what it means to go through a major league season. Certainly wouldn't be the end of the world. But we're talking about, you know, spring training at the time where things can sort of go more wrong than right. And right now these are some real challenges that J's are facing. Just sticking on Rodriguez for a second because, you know, he's been, he's been a bit of an ex factor coming into camp and then you throw in the injury stuff. And now you, I think a lot of people rightfully so we're kind of putting him on the back burner in terms of kind of current plans. But what do you think ultimately the kind of blueprint or the, you know, like, let's not go super pie in the sky, but a realistic dream scenario for him. Because if everybody's healthy, there's not necessarily a spot for him. You pay him for five years. So it's not like this is just some flyer. What do you think is the kind of realistic dream scenario for the J's with him this season and over the life of the deal? Yeah, I like that way of looking at things there, Brent. You know, realistically, I think that he starts as a reliever in mid-April with the team probably starts the season in the minor leagues in a couple weeks time and builds up there, does really well in Buffalo, comes to the major league, starts in low leverage, offers a couple innings out of the bullpen and then eventually progresses to high leverage relief. Boom, you've got this great velocity coming out of the bullpen. You've got this great secondary stuff. He's just attacking hitters, blowing away Aaron Judge. Great. He has a great relief season in 2024, pitches some important innings for them in the playoffs. And that's your dream for this year. And then for next year, he's Michael King, right? He's Michael King. That's an inevitable next step. I mean, hey, you know, that would be that would be something, right? And then he goes into next year and he's a starting pitcher. That'd be cool. I like that. I like any scenario in which Aaron Judge is striking out. We'll take that. Honestly, let's do that. Let's just let's all shake hands and agree on that right now. So, Alec Manoa, also no structural damage with his shoulder, you know, the one that had the plasma rich injection into it last season. So his first spring start didn't go necessarily so well. And these are spring games. And we understand like the guys that are well established, it doesn't matter what they do at all, at all. And certainly the records don't matter. But doesn't matter for him, because like go back to last spring and you say Kukuchi and Mitch White, the battle for the fifth starter spot. And Kukuchi dominated in spring and I said, okay, that's nice, but it doesn't really necessarily indicate something. He was great last season. How much like if Manoa was able to come back in relatively short order, how much do they actually need to see something positive on a Griffith League field before they're willing to bring him north? Yeah, with a little more than three weeks remaining, I definitely think that he's got to be out there A, throwing strikes and then B, turning a line up over a couple times to the point that he's out there for four or five innings. And again, right now, you know, he's playing catch. He seems to be in good spirits. He's like, just playing catch though. He's not throwing off a mound just yet. So there's a long way to go. And so there's the question of volume and building up. But there's also just the strike throwing. And we saw in his first outing of the spring, first and only outing of the spring so far, he threw more balls and strikes. And if you look at Major League pitchers last year, there was only one quality start all last season where a pitcher threw more balls and strikes. It was Josiah Gray and he threw one more ball and strikes. So that tells you right there, very simply, as a Major League starting pitcher, you have to be in the strikes out. It is not negotiable. You have to throw strikes. And again, there's only one spring train start. No one would have expected him to be pinpoint in that first outing in six months. But if we're talking about what he needs to show moving forward, he needs to be in the strike zone. Yeah, he absolutely does. You know, and I, I guess I'm kind of of two minds, like, is that you just laid it out there that you cannot be an effective pitcher if you're not in the strike zone. And you know, guys have lost Vilo and still found a way to be an effective pitcher or an effective pitcher. But if I look at that, that has got to be the biggest kiss of death going. If a guy loses a little Vilo, you can work around that. There's no working around just not being able to kind of hit the broad side of a barn. If you're not able to get in the zone, like, do you look at that as a as almost more concerning than than the dip in Vilo or the fact that he is a cranky shoulder? Like, as far as pecking order of problems goes from you with Minoa, that is at far away. The top of the list is opposed to even honestly, and I suppose they're tied together. But the mental hurdle of getting over last year. Yeah. And it's interesting because the Vilo was actually pretty good in that start from Minoa. He was 93.7 with the forcing fastball. That's where you want to see him. Now, did the slider have the same bite? I don't know. I wasn't there at that outing. He's going to need that slider to really work for him because that is such an important pitch for Alec Minoa. But, you know, the question of stuff does come up here too for both these guys because as you ramp up now with the goal of starting, you know, either on opening day or sometimes soon afterwards, you need to have that velocity as a major league starting pitcher. And Kevin Gossman was around 94 miles an hour last year. You know, where's he going to be? As he tries to ramp up, if he's dealing with something that the Blue Jays were very careful to call not an injury. But clearly, it's not ideal if he's dealing with a little bit of shoulder fatigue or soreness, we could call it. So where's that velocity going to be? And where's it going to be out of the gate? So, you know, Gossman and Minoa have both done it at a very, very high level. They know what's involved in succeeding against major league hitters. And if anyone can do it, it's probably used to guys, but there are some real steps that have to be taken between now and whenever they're being effective on a major league. Before that you go, Ben. So the Boris clients, not too pleased with the results they've seen so far. I'm shocked, honestly, that Cody Bellinger didn't crack the $100 million mark. I guess less shocked that Matt Chapman didn't, but I am a little shocked that he essentially settled for a one year deal with the Giants. I guess Blake Snell is still is a chance to change things. And yeah, okay. I guess Jordan Montgomery is still out there as well. What have you made of the Boris clients and the lack of dollars made available to them this offseason? Well, you know, I think Scott Boris is the greatest baseball agent of all time, but I don't think he's had a great winter. And I think that he's made some really good moves this winter, including walking Jose Altuve up late into his 30s with the use of Astros. And he's certainly had his moment, but for Chapman, for Bellinger, those deals were well short of what Boris seemed to be asking for, at least in the conversations I've had with nature league executives that seem like his asking price was way, way higher on both of those players. Seemed like he was looking for North of 200 for Snell and North of 100 million for Jordan Montgomery. We'll see if that ends up happening. Both those guys will get paid, but to what degree? So yeah, I don't think it's been a great offseason for Boris, but you know, like anyone in this game, right? Like not every GM makes, you know, Andrew Freeman traded away, Jordan Alvarez once. And you know, we've certainly seen great players have have missed moments as well. And I think this is kind of one of those things for Boris, where he just hasn't had a good offseason. And you know, maybe in that respect, Blue Jays fans can relate to him. Yeah, I feel like he's going to have a much better offseason next year when he has one Soto coming off like a 55 Homer season in the Bronx. Like, I feel like that's going to be a better result for him. I would hope so. And I agree. I think I think Soto is going to sign because you know, Boris is all about records, right? So I think Soto is going to sign for probably more than Otani and present day value, right? So Soto is probably going to get 450, 500. And Soto is going to be a monster. We're having watched him a couple times here in spring training. Like he is just it. What a perfect acquisition by the Yankees. That is that is such a good move by them. Yeah. Yuck. My thoughts on the matter. Got that clear Ben. Enjoy Bradenton today. Thanks, buddy. Anytime guys. Thank you. There's Ben Nicholson Smith at the letters in Florida. Yeah. So here's the thing with with with Juan Soto comparing him to match up. Yeah. Okay. Okay. We you know how little times left in the show, right? It's a very simple one. Soto turned down a 400 million dollar contract already. The Washington National already did that. He said, thanks for your half billion dollars. But no, thanks. And guess what? Juan Soto, no regrets. Yeah, zero. He's feeling good about his full buddy in the role models. No rag rats. Yeah. And things could change. Like, Hey, listen, hit by bus like we get all there's horrible things that can happen to all of us. But at the current moment, it feels like Juan Soto is in a good position to be exorbitantly paid. I'd say so. By one of the teams with all the money. And then you know what that means is that Scott Boris then also gets exorbitantly paid. Yeah. So agency works. Yeah. And he'll this off season will be largely forgotten when Scott Boris is right there with Juan Soto and Brian Cashman and they're inking a 500 million dollar extension with the New York Yankees. Matt Chapman also turned down an extension twice for more than a hundred million dollars once with the Oakland A's and by all accounts, Blue Jays also were open to extending Matt Chapman and north of a hundred million dollars and maybe like you keep doing like the the the current cousins like franchise tag thing like one year deal after one year deal and eventually all these 20 million dollar one year deals add up to a hundred million dollars. Here's my guess is that if you asked Matt Chapman right now, do you wish you had signed one of those? Yeah. Yeah, it's where my mind immediately glows and it's just baseball money so much bigger. So it's not as destitute, but it's John Klingberg. Like how many conversations do we have about him turning down that extension and trying to go to market and not working out. And again, you know, 20 million very different than the four or five that Klingberg got this year. But yeah, it's how can you not second guess thinking about those things. I also just had to chuckle and he's not wrong. I just don't think I've ever heard it like we talk about goat players, but you're right like goat sports agent. It's it's man. I'd never heard it said that way. But how can you argue? Yeah, net worth. I think it's probably Scott Boris. Yeah, I'd say. I mean, he's working in the right. I actually I feel like our ignorance is showing here and there's some soccer guy who probably owns like several countries based on what those guys make. All right, we'll have the answer. We'll have the answer to that question maybe tomorrow. Maybe. Maybe not. Hi, this has been fan morning show sports on five nine fan bananas for gunning. Good morning.
