[MUSIC] Back to the point again to Brody. This time a pass is intercepted and a breakaway opportunity for Jimmy Veezy. In a goal, handshake made by Don Fender Septonoff. Fox in, gloves safe. Holly Mackinac, what a shame. The left hand of Ilya Septonoff has them on their feet. Sammy, Sammy. He was great. I mean, he made such big saves when he had to. Obviously, there's a couple mistakes that we can clean up, but he was there to back us up. So that's what it takes to win. The stakes are going to happen and when that happens, you got to just be there for your buddy to bail him out and he seemed to do it a few times tonight. So he was great back there. >> That's not like a two points, yeah. We played together. We stayed hard fighting, you know. Like, I think it's a really interesting game for fans or whatever everybody. Yeah. Nice to be two points, probably the first time you win for me in a shootout, yeah. It's just against the engines, it's doing really good to shoot us and yeah, it's good for me. [MUSIC] >> Matt, great. >> Good for you. Good for me as well. >> We're getting Matt Marchese here with you on a Monday. I'm back. I've returned. Most people chill out when they go to, let's say a desert island. It's just an island. >> For you, it might as well have been a desert island. >> Might as well have been because there was no leaves. But down back, back in the land of hockey, I did have a wonderful time on my vacation. So a quick little shout out to my wife and kid who made it wonderful and a shout out to you in Daniele who kept the mics, I was about to say the mics warm, but you don't really just kept them on. >> Kept the seats warm. >> Kept the seats warm. Sorry, it's a little too warm. >> That's okay, you're in my seat actually. I'm sitting in bends right now because I'm driving this super behind the scenes but I'm driving the bus today. >> Yes. >> My guys, Sam Mann and Austin, so you can have a little eye contact here. You have your back to them, I don't know, like who wins the trade, who can say? I don't know, I don't know. But also you guys behind the glass, you don't have to look at Marquesse's mug. So we're all- >> That is a win in itself. >> We're all kind of winning here. A win is a win, a win is a win. Lee's picked up a win. No shortage of thanks to Ilya Sampsonov in it, big, big saves. The one he made, I think it was an overtime, yeah, it wasn't overtime. >> Yeah, it was sliding across. That was shades of a save that is near and dear to my leaf's heart of Joe Bowen calling it Holy Mackinac, Holy Macalini, Curtis Macalini, when posted to Rob Sidney Crosby to lock up a playoff spot for the buds many, many moons ago. That's kind of where my mind went with that one in terms of what you saw on Saturday night. Obviously so much coming out of that game is about the fight, but I guess about the leaf's just once again kind of showing they belong. Now I don't think this is the Rangers as some upper, upper tier team in the league that they're one of the capital C cup contenders, but that's a good team and that's a good win. And I think you have to just continue to stack those for the Leafs as you kind of continue to go on. >> Yeah, they played a brand of hockey that you, it makes you believe in them in a playoff run because, and again, I'm not, I'm not this massive Leafs homer, I'm like, my God, they're gonna win this Stanley Cup with no, no, no, but actually though, I don't believe those guys exist just quickly on that everyone's like, Oh, Leafs home or classic, they always think the Leafs are gonna win. Have you ever met a leaf in? >> Yeah, they don't. >> Do they think like I believe on any given night, a good thing can happen. >> Sure. >> But in the grand scheme of things? >> No, absolutely. >> You've seen this movie too many times. And so I think that they've, they've showcased that they can play a brand of hockey that can be successful. They can be good defensively. We saw it without Morgan Riley in the lineup, they have been good defensively. They're, they're able to play a certain style. Also the fact that they're getting goal-tending has also kind of taken the idea of them dealing for a goal tender off the table, which I think is important because I don't think they're gonna be very easy to deal for right now. >> No, I mean, you look at your Mark Strum and God, don't talk to him about it. He's not happy with the way that that is played out, obviously sorrows. I think it's so, it's so twofold when you talk about trading for a goalie. And again, I don't think the Leafs are in that spot now. It's that not only is it incredibly expensive if they're at all worthwhile, they're still a goalie. And I don't say that to mean I think sorrows wouldn't be good if he wasn't a pred. But he's been a pred his whole life playing in that insulated system is just different than it is going elsewhere. And again, I don't say that to think he'd fall off a cliff. Mark Strum. He's played in different places, he's given you a, he's given you a good plan in Canadian markets. That stuff all is important, that stuff all matters, but it's also a guy who's longer than the tooth. And you know, is he gonna be happy to be going there? I imagine it'd be, if there is a marks from trade made, I can, I can venture to be a very motivated Mark Strum, but how happy would he be? Who knows? I am, I think that is probably the biggest thing that, that has happened to the Leafs here is removing the need to trade for a goalie. Massive that Dolmy has found a home. That they got three lines that are, that are going now, but the idea of removing that from the equation, and I don't know how real it was, even if they didn't have a goalie, just because again, it's really only two guys, because this is the point I made over and over again. When I talk about goalies, there was no point unless you absolutely had no Martin Jones to make a David Ridditch trade, right? If you're going to trade for a goaltender, you should trade for a difference maker. Somebody who knows a lot about trades that happened throughout the NHL and hopefully, I don't know, maybe a little tidbit on one that might be coming. This insider is brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online. And in the showroom, visit Don Valley, North Lexus.com, president of hockey operation, daily face off Frank, Sarah Vellie joining us now, Frank, how's it going, man? What's going on? I'm good. I'm good. I'm just, I'm catching my bearings. I was on vacation last week. So, you know, it's like, you takes vacation in the middle of trade. Oh, this is a bone of contention. I'm not getting started, Frank. Do not get me started. It's not like anything's happening. I mean, why would you need to work? No, you're right. It's not like the Leafs made the trade. I've been saying they should make all year long or I'm not even that they should. Just the trade that they thought they would make all year long. And then I was as far away from a microphone as humanly possible and didn't get to brag about it. So no, I'm not at all been thinking about that all week, and which it did, Frank, but you should have had your vacation request denied. I should have. You're right. I'm going to do that. Oh, boy. Oh, man. God. This is good. My wife hated my boss before. Oh, she's going to loathe Fabro when I just tell her he denies everything. Ah, yes. But that's neither here nor there. I did take vacation. I feel awful about it, but I'm back. Uh, Leafs, they did make their move. I feel awful feeling so refreshed today. Oh, no. Here's the thing. No, I don't think he is. No, I think he's bothered. Yeah. No, Frank, here's the thing. Why did you go to Disney? No. Well, I mean, no, but I did travel with a three-year-old. So I mean, yeah, it was vacation, but like, in name only, I got pushed into the pool for seven hours straight every day, but he's got a waterboard at any way either here nor there. Before we get into the big news from this weekend with the Pedersen contract, I do just want to kind of get a lay of the trade landscape from a Leafs perspective. They go out. They get their man. Maybe they don't have him anymore. He did not return after Eli Labushkin did not return after getting smoked by, by rent pay with. Hey, it was a charge. I'm murdering for it. It's hockey. Things happen. Do you think depending on the injury to Labushkin that changes to living plans at all? Do you think he still has some irons in the fire? What are we looking at for the Leafs as we are creeped toward the deadline Friday? Oh, no. There were many irons in the fire before the Labushkin trade and even after. This was just supposed to be one step in the process. Now, I don't think the Labushkin injury changes anything. You know, obviously no clear timeline. It's suspected concussion is what they're looking at here. And now what happens moving forward. I mean, your guess is as good as anyone else's because there's a whole lot of different ways you can approach this. How do you were back at square one in terms of how do you possibly attempt to fill all of these holes in one shot? And that's the, that's what I keep coming back to with this leaf team. Like you can, you can do things around the edges and kind of, you know, appease a fan base in a sense. I don't see a big move here to be had, but the one place, and I know defense is a spot that we know that they want to upgrade. They want to probably add another right shot defense, which they desperately need. Where do you think the idea of finding someone maybe with a little bit of speed to play on John Tavares's wing is on their wish list right now? I mean, how do you sort out that and also more additional help in your bottom six? And then I still think they need multiple defense men. It's not one more right shot defense men. It's multiple. I just, I think that's the part that I keep coming back to is how do you and if the trade really is as you phrased it to appease the fan base, does that make sense? No, is that, is that really what the goal should be? I'm not, I'm not picking at your words in general, because I feel like they're stuck between a rock and a hard place of feeling like they need to do something because these players that are, you know, look at Matthews and the season he's having. These guys are right in the heart of the prime of their career. These might be some of the best years you get. How do you not do more? Yeah, that's sorry. Go ahead. It's a thin market and you've got limited assets. Yeah, I don't look at it as the fan base. I think, I mean, I think the two things are part and parcel. I think the fans look at the season that Matthews is having in Kneelander and these guys all being in the kind of peak of their powers and say, how can you not add to it? And I think that goes to what the players are kind of proving there. The thing, the question I have is just, you know, we hear a lot about the Leafs and them being not, well, I mean, everybody's capped out, but also capped out in terms of assets. How much of a disadvantage are they at from other teams? Because I, you know, I sometimes think we get so bogged down and, you know, it's in, it's in Leaflam, but plenty of team people get bogged down on their own teams. Are there a lot of contenders that have tons of stuff in the cupboards that can just go get it? Like I look at the devil's, they can make their moves that they want to. I don't know how much people consider them contenders right now at this point. Any time after that road trip. Right. So how Tyler Tofoli will be rocketing up the train. So how many, how many contenders are there out there that actually do have the assets available to go out there and kind of just be trademark of bullies if they, if they want to, because I'm not saying the Leafs, their, their position has been overstated in terms of how bare the cupboards are, their bear, but it's bare for a lot of teams that have been pushing in and going for it for the past few years. Well, it's particularly bare in the East. And that's. Last year. Yeah. Chiefs, chief competition, getting out of the Atlantic would be Florida and then Tampa. I mean, and, and I would include Boston. Those, those three teams in particular are at a much bigger disadvantage. I would say than the Leafs are right at this exact period of time because they've all gone for it. And in the moment, all of those positions made sense, I think the, the lightning were coming off of back-to-back Stanley cups. The Bruins were set in NHL record for points and wins in a season. The Panthers, when they went all in, they had won the presidents or were winning the presidents trophy that season. I mean, you can work yourself from A to Z on how they get there. But I think when you look back at the spot that the Leafs have been in, and I, I get that they had much better regular seasons than they have this year. But you look at the assets that were out the door and it's, they're in the same spot, but I have nothing to show for it. And that I think is probably one of the key differentiators is that, yeah, the Leafs have, probably played better on the whole this season than the Tampa Bay Lightning. But if you were to size up these two teams next to each other, in terms of playoff success if both are getting in, I think I'm still leaning toward the lightning in terms of what they've put together. So to answer your question though, which teams have assets that are in contender mode that are going to make moves this week? I will be absolutely floored, head sewn to the carpet on Saturday morning. If the Colorado Avalanche, Vegas, Golden Knights and Edmonton Oilers don't make absolutely significant moves between now and Friday at 3 p.m. Yeah, they've all got the assets. They've all, they've all got the ability to do it. Who's the best player that moves between now and the deadline? Do you think? I mean, the biggest, Adam Henry, the biggest, I will fall on the floor. The biggest names have been the goalies, but I'd be surprised if they move. Who do you think is the best player or the biggest impact player that ultimately does get moved? The biggest impact player, it's really not close for me. It's Jake Genssel. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. North of a point per game, four of the last five seasons, two time 40 goal score, very adaptable player, has tons of playoff success. He'd let up post season and goal scoring when they won the Stanley Cup in 2017. I mean, and he's south of 30. Like how much more in terms of a pending free agent, whether he's a rental or whether he's someone you're going to sign, if you're a team that's looking for a difference maker, that's the guy. Is it not? Yeah. No, I'm with you. And not only that, frankly, I think the important thing is, and some people will scoff at this notion, but Jake Genssel has proven he can play with elite players. Like he plays with Sidney Crosby, and that's not something that is the easiest thing to do. A lot of people say, well, I could play alongside Conor McDavid and score 30 goals. Well, no, you can't because they play the game at a different level. And I think that when you talk about, you know, teams like Edmonton and you talk about teams like Colorado and Vegas, well, guess what? Jake Genssel's going to come in and he's going to play with elite players. I don't think that that's nothing when talking about acquiring a guy like that as well. No, I mean, with all due respect to Chris Kunance and Pascal Dupuy and anyone else that's ever played on Sidney Crosby's line and has found a home there, Jake Genssel is by far the best player to ever play alongside number 87 and have sustained success. Like we're talking about eight plus years of being in the right spot at the right time, finding soft areas of ice, all the different things that makes Jake Genssel and his high hockey IQ such an important factor in a game night in and night out. The thing is, I don't, there's been lots of discussion over the last month. Well, how could Kyle Dubas and the Penguins possibly sell Sidney Crosby on the idea that trading Jake Genssel is the right thing to do? I don't know if after this last weekend and especially after Sunday's shellacking and Edmonton, how anyone in that front office, let alone in their locker room, could make even close to a sentient argument that this is a path that this team should go down trying to keep someone like Jake Genssel when he could help restart exactly what they need to do. So that's where I wanted to go with that. I agree with you. I don't, I think even like a truth serum Sidney Crosby would understand that. But what are they looking for? Because this isn't, I would imagine, this isn't, all right, let's grab all the pics we can and young players aren't going to be here forever. You know, this is a, like, this feels like a team that wants to trade for guys that are on the cusp or somebody that can actually help not this year, but in the not too distant future, like how different is this rental trade or sign and trade or whatever ends up being then kind of a typical one? Because generally speaking, teams for a player like Genssel who are saying, all right, we're telling you be content to get futures, but how valuable are futures to you when you got Sidney Crosby and Latang and Malcolm and Carlson? Oh, I think you need a blend. Whether you take a roster player back, whether you get a prospect who's closer to NHL ready than not, me personally, I've seen the reporting saying that the Penguins are looking for more prospects than picks. I guess it depends on the team and the pick, but this window is going to be incredibly long for the Penguins to be competitive again. I just, I can't imagine bypassing on the picks unless, like, the prospect game is such a crapshoot year in and year out. There's a reason why teams are willing to let go of guys. It's because they're non-believers. And pick almost any sizable trade in league history. Go back and look at the players that were moved nine times out of 10. If a known prospect is being traded, they tend to not be very good. Yeah. And like even it's funny you say that because the most recent one that jumps to my head that did work out is own tip it with the flyers and the whole thought down was, well, you know, he's going to the one team. They're taking what they can get. This is a prospect who is exciting, but not someone we expect to burst on. You're right. Like the guy who has worked out most recently is a guy who wasn't a throw in. He was the crux of the deal, but there's a reason that he was the prospect that got moved and it was because they had one team to trade him to that it is funny. You say that. Well, it's because the Panthers didn't have any faith that he would end up being what he is now. They had no evidence to point to. And if they had any evidence, they would have kept him. That's the truth. And so remember to think back to that, that deal between the flyers and, and Panthers, because that was one that we looked at and said, man, like they, the flyers just got what they could in a spot with a player in complete control, saying he only wanted to go to Florida. You could argue that the Panthers were way more generous than they needed to be as teams always say, well, I got to be respectful. Like I can't just throw a pile of nothing at this manager, even though I know I'm the only team that's in the mix, the Panthers were way over the top. But I'm just just to look through some other examples, like I just, for whatever reason, I was looking at the Matt DuShane trade from Ottawa, just to highlight this point, Ottawa to Columbus a few years back as five years ago now, but he's one of the only players that at the time had been traded for two first round picks. One of them ended up being conditional, not transferring, but the deal was two first round picks, Vitali Abramov and Jonathan Davidson. Those were the two prospects going from Columbus to Ottawa. Do you know how many games Vitali Abramov and Jonathan Davidson ended up playing combined for the sense? Not a lot. Eleven. Oh, geez. Well, on to your point, when in the, in the trade, the DuShane was involved, it was a pick. It's bow and by room. And you know, the jury's still a little bit out there, but when you take the pick, you see what it can. No, no, I understand what I'm saying. It's like you, you look at it and it's like, oh, they take the pick and look at the player. Now, again, it's circumstances and sometimes you get lucky in that regard, but yeah, it does work out that way. You could go down such a rabbit hole here, like the Markstone trade. And it just happened so happens that it's Ottawa again. That one didn't work out very well either worked out pretty good for Vegas. But Frank, when we're talking about, you know, players that are potentially available, like Jake Denzel's at the top of the list, but is there a player that you think is getting the most calls on like that depth guy, like Adam Henrik is a, is a name that comes to mine because, you know, despite Anaheim not being very good, he's had a pretty good season. Is there is maybe he's the guy or is there another guy that you think a team is getting a lot of calls on? Yeah, I'm going to keep it right in Pittsburgh. It's, it's Riley Smith. He's actually getting sources say there's more teams lined up for Riley Smith than there are for Jake Denzel. Makes sense. Money. Well, my year to fit in and cost, right? Yeah, that's it for me. It's more like, cause those are the guys that I feel like are in the, in, like Jake Denzel feels like there's like three or four teams that he's going to fit on. Whereas Riley Smith, just based on the fact that, you know, maybe the penguins would be, you know, willing to eat money on him, whatever that's fine, just to get them off the books. And he has term. And he has term. And then the other thing is too, is if we're being honest, like a lot more teams are, you know, if you're an elite team, chances are you can't fit a guy like Jake Denzel into your, into your cap. Whereas Riley Smith is a little bit more palatable. He also has why can't you retain on Jake Denzel? No, no, they can. But I'm saying, you know, the cost difference. I don't know what Riley Smith has made that cost like I think I think everything in terms of, you know, how much like, I don't know what Riley Smith is making. Is he three and change or is he four and change? He's five. He's five. Okay. So it's higher than I thought is six. That's why I was asking. I guess my thought on it was, I feel like more teams would be in the running for a third line guy rather than a first line guy based on cost. And then I guess, you know, if Pittsburgh is willing to eat more money on Riley Smith because he has term, I wonder if that plays into it as well. I just think it's going to be interesting at the end of the day, excuse me, to line up some of these teams or deals next to each other. What does Riley Smith end up going for and how much more do the penguins get for Jake Genssel? My guess is it's not going to be a huge disparity. But I think there's a big disparity between the impact that the players can make. What's their ceiling? And I think the same thing's true with TANF and HANF and are a bit of a different comparison. One doesn't, you know, both of those guys don't have term, but because the market is so limited for HANF and because there are, he's steering the process by way of teams that he's interested in re-signing with or not, he's grabbed almost complete control of this. And that part has been really tough for the Calgary Flames. So TANF goes for a second plus a prospect plus a conditional third, HANF and, you know, the starting point is going to be a first, so there's going to be a big disparity. But in the end, when you compare number two defensemen versus number four defensemen, how big will the difference be really? And I think that's what's going to be really interesting to watch. Yeah. It will be. Last one for me before we let you go. Do we expect the Blackhawks, Ducks, kind of teams like that to be way stations for contracts? I mean, it just seems like a smart piece of business. How much of that do we expect to see? And I imagine, you know, just cap spaces at a premium until it starts to go up, that those teams can do a little piece of business. Would you expect those teams to kind of operate in that way, be it a Chicago or Anaheim or whoever? Yep. Washing money will be incredibly important. I'd expect other teams like the Sabers, Blue Jackets, even some of the contending teams, if they end up with extra cap space to find a way to recoup a little bit, they're going to be in the mix. Chicago, interestingly enough, has, they've let everyone know that they're willing to take on a contract that may be undesirable in order to help facilitate as well. So, you know, if you're, think about Edmonton, they're, they're capped out in a way that most teams aren't. Like they do have a little bit of deadline space, 2.3 million, I think it'll be by Friday. But they've got to trade someone off their roster if they're going to add someone that makes any money. And Chicago could be that dumping ground for one of those deals, whether it's Fogle or CC or whoever it might be, they're going to have to make tough choices. Yeah. No, very, very few easy ones this time of year, other than when we pick up the phone to call you, always love chatting with, you know, on a Monday, Frank. I mean, what's easier than making a decision to go on vacation at one of the busiest times of the year? I love it. Don't, again, don't, don't tempt me to get my wife on the show to litigate that exact conversation. Cause let's just say it wasn't my decision to leave during the throws of hockey season. I mean, look, I, I think you're playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers. You're sitting back and you go, I'm just going to relax here. Everyone else is busting their arse. No. Perfect time for me to get drug into the pool for seven hours based on, based on my conversation with him when I walked in the door today, Frank, that is definitely not what his mindset was. I'm guaranteed. I'll never forgive Brad for living for making the trade while I was gone. I am. Well, I don't even know if that's true. I just, I'm a hockey sicko and I need to talk about it. And in Jamaica, there just weren't that many hockey conversations to, to be, I can't imagine that there would be. No, I know. But like I'm just like letting you all out there. No, if you see me in the wild and I'm in a warm tropic, come talk to me about the Leafs. Please, please, please. And Frank cerebelli. Thank you for coming on. Always love talking to you. Have a good week. There he goes. Well, no one wants to wake up on a Monday morning, driving to work and be like, this guy's complaining about his Jamaican vacation. But God, I wanted to talk about the Leafs so bad when that LeBouchekin trade got made. Cause I want to be clear, I don't think LeBouchekin is the answer, but I, but it was something. No, I just, I feel like I said it first. Again, I'm not some genius. We all can look at cat friendly and see that the ducks stink and you can get that player for him. But I, I feel like I said it first and I didn't get to take my victory lap. And for that, Brad, you're living a little disappointed in you. I told you made the trade though. Happy to have something to say. I know what it's like not being able to take a victory lap. I get it. Yeah. Well, no, but the pro, but like you don't get to take them because you're wrong. I was right. I was right. I was right about one thing that I never got to take the victory lap for, but we don't need to take it now or no, no, no, you're good. It's been way too long. Okay. I guess I know what we're talking about in the brain, the Raptors. They won barely some, somehow, some way. That wasn't pretty. No. No, no, no. The, the Hornet's unis. We can go behind that. It's a color scheme. Raptors, unis usually looking pretty good. That was about the only thing aesthetically pleasing about that game last night. Bit of a rock fight at Scotia bank. Michael Green, she'll join us to talk about it next. What do the Raptors do without Scotty Barnes? What should they be looking to learn during this time? Well, he has a fractured hand. We got one segment left in the fan morning show on sports snap five nine of the fan. Fan morning show. Brink gunning at Matt Marchese here. I want to thank all of you for welcoming me back. So kindly happy to be back. How do we chat in sports in the morning? I was chatting again, like vacation's great, but like just chatting about kids, TV shows and stuff. I'm thrilled to be back in the, in the world of adults, not a big, blue guy. No, actually, I got to be honest. A great kid show. As far as kids shows go. It's not bad. It's not bad. We're not going to talk about that right now. We're going to talk about what did have me feeling blue last night and it was that the Raptors almost lost to the Hornets and those Scotty Barnes wasn't there. It still feels like that shouldn't be happening. Who better to talk about that with us now and somebody who I know is in a good mood because golf season isn't too, too far away. Michael Grange. Joy just now. Grange. How you doing this morning? I'm doing well. How are you guys doing? I'm doing well. Doing well. Doing well. Things got a little hairy for, for the wraps last night. You know, I understand you, you take the north star of a team away in Scotty Barnes and things are going to look a little different, but not exactly the night the Raptors wanted. They had moments where it looked like it was going well and then way, way closer than you wanted at the end of the game. Just a kind of wide brush thoughts on last night from you before we dive into other areas, Grange. Well, you're playing the Hornets who are terrible, so, you know, but, yeah, you know, there was some encouraging things. I think really what this game was about and what the rest of the season is about is going to be, you know, players trying to develop parts of the game that need to be developed and, you know, a guy like Emmanuel Cookley, who I thought was quite good last night for the most part, you know, really asserting himself as a point guard and a score first guard, which I think he's best suited to being and corporate that was playmaking and then, you know, for a lot of younger players, like this is an incredibly important stretch of basketball and it's not, you know, the hardest thing to get in the NBA if you're not a kind of a bonafide first pick that, you know, the team is invested in is minutes and playing time and opportunity. So a guy like, you know, Jose Kabaji, I mean, this is, these could be the most important 20 games of his career, really. And, you know, I thought he was okay last night as a starter, like I think he showed why he was a first round pick just a couple of years ago at times with the athleticism and I think his off-ball instincts are pretty good. But you know, he was one of seven for three and what six of 20 overalls of the floor. So, you know, and really that's his career in a nutshell, if you can show himself to be an effective three-point shooter and effective shot maker to support his, you know, his defense and his cutting and his energy, he's probably a fixture in NBA rotation. If he can't, he's, you know, he won't be. And, you know, so that's kind of what this season is about or the last 20 games or so. Yeah, as good a time as any to see what you have there. I think you nailed it, obviously, with quickly being maybe the guy who has the most to gain or the most opportunity to flourish with without Barnes. How does this open things up for Grady Dick? Because in theory, you'd say, okay, well, I don't really know what Scotty Barnes and Grady, you know, obviously you'd want Scotty Barnes facilitating things for Grady Dick. But it seems like he is, you know, part of this just goes part and parcel of him being a more confident player as the years going on. But how do you think Barnes absence, if at all, will kind of affect Grady Dick and the version of a player you see of him in the last tale of his NBA or first NBA season? Well, I mean, it doesn't help in the sense of, you know, I think Grady is a really good compliment to Scotty and vice versa. Just, you know, Scotty being such a willing passer and Grady being such a great mover. You know, that's how wide they drafted him, but it's certainly when he was available to draft him, that was something I think they were really excited about. And also, you know, Grady's got some playmaking capabilities of his own, so that takes some pressure off Scotty. But I loved what they did last night is, I think, you know, a knee jerk reaction would have been, "Okay, Scotty's out, we're going to start Grady and, you know, just not force feed him, but, you know, start running around here 35 minutes a night and see what happens." And instead, you know, he's been averaging about 20 minutes a game. And, you know, we've all seen how effective he's been in those minutes. Say, "Now we're going back almost 20 games now." He's been really good, very, very encouraging progress. And what do they give him last night? They give him 24 minutes, you know, and then we're ready to match after, before the game was saying, you know, "We're going to give them some more minutes. We're going to expand." Well, that's what it was. They up to his minutes by, you know, whatever that is, 20% or something. And maybe after a little bit of that, they'll bump it up to 28 and maybe by the end of this, you might be starting. Who knows? But I just love the fact that they're being so calibrated in how they work with his player who's, I think, has really shown he's got the ability to be a very good NBA player. And, you know, the floor keeps rising. And I would say right now the ceiling does, too. Like, you know, you're kind of like, "Wow, you put 15, 20 pounds of muscle on this guy," which, you know, he's a young 20 and, you know, it's pretty easy to imagine just, you know, just eating. And, you know, and then the rest of his IQ and his skill will kind of be that much easier to display. And so, I think it's good that he's going to get minutes, you know, without Scottie, I think, you know, him and Kelly Olinik have a nice chemistry. But, you know, I thought Grady kept doing what he has been doing. And, you know, he's very effective in his minutes last night. And, you know, I think I just really, really like the way that they've, you know, the way they've handled him in the past, sort of, a couple of months here. Yeah. Nobody's ever told me, you know, you need to eat a little bit more. I've never had that issue. Like, I wish I did at one point, because it would be a lot of fun. So when we talk about Grady and the improvement over the course of the year, because I feel like the improvements from the beginning of the season, and this is, you know, it does happen often with younger players, you know, they get into a system and, you know, they have to get acclimated to the pro game, because it is different. But when you look at Grady and you talk about, you know, the ceiling and where he could get to, what do you think the biggest improvement he needs to make is? You know, I don't really see any glaring weakness, to be honest. You know, I think he's IQ wise in terms of visibility to absorb the game. He's, you know, he's NBA ready. Like, he'll get better, right? But I haven't seen, even when he was really struggling, there weren't many moments where it looked like he didn't know what needed to be done, or how to do it. It just, he couldn't quite do it, and it was a little, that was a little overwhelming. You know, I think you're going to point out defensively, you know, but I think that gets better just with a little more strength, a little more, you know, a little more knowledge and IQ and anticipation that'll solve a lot of problems. And I think he's actually not a bad defender. Like he's throwing on an island against, you know, elite score, or sure, he's going to struggle. But guess what? The rest of the league does, too. But when you look at his rotations and his timing and his health defense, like he sees for a rookie, I think he's quite solid. So I think with Grady, it's just, you know, the biggest jump he has, I think the most, the biggest progress he'll make will be physically. And I think that is something you can't force, like, you know, like all jokes aside, I think most of us can remember being 20. And then you look at a picture where you're 25, and you didn't, you may or may not, you know, maybe you trained a lot, maybe you didn't, but you just do fill out, you get stronger. And if you do it right, you can, you know, you're all of a sudden you're in your prime, and you're a different athlete almost, so, so I think that's, that's where he is now. But yeah, I mean, he's, you know, I don't really see a glaring weakness in his game and do awesome. I really just think that for him, just his overall athleticism and strength as that increases, I think you'll see his finishing get better at the rim, he'll be a little more explosive off the bounce. He'll be that much more stable when he does shoot. And defensively, he'll be able to resist a little bit better. And you know, those little incremental changes will all add up. And then when you, you know, the knowledge, confidence, experience kicks in, you know, I think you're going to see a pretty good player. Yeah, I agree. Maybe we'll all, I'm telling myself this. Maybe we will all remember writing off lotto picks 20 games into a season when they haven't even played 20 of those games. They were in the G League for, for parts of it. Obviously the rotation is getting a little stretched out with the injury to Barnes. You saw Pertle get hurt last night and that kind of changed things a little bit. How far down the, this is a rude way to phrase it and maybe you can help me put it more politely. But how far down the rotation do we go where we should be looking at things that matter? Like I'm watching DJ cart and run around last night. He's active. He's, you know, he's, he's trying to do things. It's a hustle. It's an effort player. You know, is that somebody you look at and say you may be on earth, something in the last 20 games here, like how far down the pecking order do we go before the kind of idea of a nice story or maybe this player can turn into something starts to, to evaporate a little bit because, you know, we, we see moments and flashes from all these players, but there's a reason the Raptors are at the spot they're at and in the year and part of it is the roster construction here that not all these guys are going to end up being, you know, meaningful or even, you know, contributors or rotation pieces here, like how, how many guys in the mix right now are we looking at is, and I don't mean long term solution here, but even in 10 next year as part of the, you know, you mentioned a jibaji, he's a guy there. I look at Jordan, why he gets 18 minutes last night, like how many of those guys do we think will actually kind of factor into even the, the medium term plans for this team here? Yeah, I mean, that's a good question. And I think if you look at the three guys who aren't two ways and then they just converted uh, uh, premium Liberty, um, you know, he's been dominating in the G League. Um, and you take it, uh, John Tate Porter, oh, he's one of the two ways. Um, you know that, and I think out of that group, if you get one guy who is a roster player next year and maybe on the fringe of your rotation, I think you've done pretty well. Right? Like that's, that's sort of what it takes. You know, not all of them are going to hit, not all of them are going to fit. And I think if you're going to zero on one thing, it's, you know, if everything goes as planned, um, quickly as you're starting point guard, uh, Scottie Barnes is your primary something point guard. I don't know exactly what the word would be, but he, you know, he's going to show a couple of minutes in that role. But what's been missing, um, now for several years is been a reliable NBA ready, uh, backup point guard. And so I think if they can find a solution to that, um, you know, that, that guy, if they can identify him, whoever he is, will be in the rotation. You know, he might be ninth, might be tenth, whatever, but, um, there's, there's definitely a job to be had because, you know, really, since Kyle Lowry left the Raptor has been pretty much a sprained ankle away from having, you know, either no point guard or, or only one. And so, uh, you know, so I think that's got to be addressed. And, you know, so I think, you know, that's what I would zero in on. And so out of the, out of the groups, it's, it's kind of, you know, kicking around the back end of the rotation or it just been added in terms of two ways or whatever, if one of these guys can prove to be NBA ready over the next 20 games, that'd be, that'd be a bonus. So is there a player that you point out specifically that benefits the most or maybe the player that we're going to learn the most about while Scottie is out? Because I mean, we mentioned a bunch of guys there and it is important, especially for a team like the Raptors who's, they're trying to figure things out and who's going to be a part of this long term and who's not, but is there a guy that stands out that you think you're going to learn the most about it? Maybe it is a guy like a manual quickly and, and having, you know, more opportunity or, or maybe it is, you know, one of these other guys that we, that we mentioned, is there somebody to you that stands out like this is the guy we're going to learn the most about? You know, I, I think quickly is a really pivotal, uh, piece, obviously, um, and, you know, people kind of forget, like, I think he's been pretty good since he, he, he's, he's been added, you know, he certainly shot the ball great, but it, you know, the rest of his role as a point guard has been just, I'm maybe just so so, right? Like, I mean, it's finishing is really, hasn't been very good, um, is, you know, is, you know, is, you know, he's either been a pretty good passer or a pretty good scorer. He's rarely kind of, kind of mixed both in a, in a nice elegant way, which is really hard to do. And so, so I think, and people kind of forget, like this guy's been coming off the bench for three and a half years, right, which, you know, he's had some great moments as a starter, which is sort of where he really, you know, he really kind of popped was, he had some moments when brunch one was out and I think put up some really good numbers. Um, but as has been pointed out, like you're doing against against NBA starters, the team is now yours. Um, you're the guy who's got to decide, you know, who needs the next shot should be kind of audible out of whatever set we're in should be, you know, identifying mitch and mismatch is on the fly, um, when to press your own offense, like there's just a lot of, uh, pretty subtle detail that needs to be mastered to be a really good NBA point guard. And you know, you only get it with reps, you only get it with time. And he's, he's, you know, he's a, he's pretty young in his career still, he's still a young guy. Um, and, but this role is new and, um, so I think to get, uh, let's just presume Scott is not coming back. Like, I, I, you know, if he is back, it's won't be until kind of April. Um, put the ball in quickly fans and let him really run a team and, you know, some nights it's going to be calling his own number and, you know, bailing a team, bailing his team out, some nights it's going to be, you know, using his, uh, threat to create opportunities for others. And sometimes it's going to be, you know, hopefully more often not, it's going to be mixing those two extremes and, you know, making life easier for everyone else on the floor. And it's a big, big job. And you know, there's one thing to be a starting point guard in the league. It's not a thing to be a really good starting point guard. I mean, by definition, if you're starting point guard in the league, you're pretty damn good because it's, it's probably the most competitive single position. I would argue almost in sports, um, but, you know, to kind of get into that top half or the top third, it'd be, uh, you know, that's what the Raptors are hoping. And this is a great opportunity for him to kind of really grow in his craft. So it's a young roster, as we know, a lot of guys, 25 and under, how do you value getting into a play in game over having a better draft pick? And I'm not saying that the players are going to go out and tank or whatever. But as an organization, what is more valuable to the Raptors at this moment in time based on where they are in their developmental cycle after trading away a bunch of veterans off this team? Um, yeah, it's kind of a tough question because with the nature of the draft lottery, um, even if, and just the way this season has kind of emerged, um, at the bottom half of the standings, you know, there's, there's almost no real benefit to tanking, like the bottom five teams are just so bad that, you know, I guess if you lost the remainder of your games, you might end up going from, like, I think right now the Raptors are seventh from the bottom. You might get down to fifth, you know, I got to look closely to see if they could get the fourth, but it's pretty unlikely, like, I mean, that, that team they played last night had has 15 wins and Raptors have, I think, 22 or 23, like, how many more games is Charlotte going to win this year? Like two? Three? Like, you know what I mean? So it's kind of you. Yeah. So, I mean, you know, so even if you end up six, which is where, you know, technically they would be keeping their picks, there's still a chance once the lottery ball settle that you bounce back to, you bounce back in the draft, send it anyway and lose the pick. So, you know, it's kind of like the benefit of so-called tanking really isn't that clear cut. So to answer your question, I think in this next 20-odd games, playing for, playing for something that matters, somehow trying to chase down Atlanta, which is three and a half games ahead and you've got Brooklyn in between, like, if that can kind of remain on the horizon, if Atlanta keeps struggling and the Raptors can somehow kind of keep heaking out a win and you kind of get to tank games off the schedule and you're only two games out or a game and a half. You know, Scotty maybe, you know, maybe he doesn't need surgery and he's maybe Els will come back. That becomes interesting. And I think your practices get better, your attentiveness and meetings gets better. You're, you know, and this, don't forget too, this is a young coaching staff. You know, Darker Records has a ton of experience as a coach, but he's got very limited experience as an NBA head coach, similarly with his assistants. And so I think all of that, you know, I would, if I was, you know, calling the shots, I would definitely emphasize trying to be as good and win as many games as possible, coming down the stretch. And, you know, and people forget, like, I mean, playing format as you're playing 9-10, I don't, I don't see anyone that will be in the playing tournament that looks so formidable. You couldn't beat them in one game. You know, and then you're in a playoff series. And I guess you'd probably drop Austin. Okay. That wouldn't be, you know, you wouldn't do all that in foods. But, you know, you, you are a playoff team at that point, you're, you know, I think for young players going through that experience is very valuable. So long answer, but I would say it's unlikely that they're going to get it anyway, but the benefits of tanking are so slim that, you know, he might as well go for it. Yeah. Agreed with you. Hey, giving Scotty Barnes something to shoot for in his rehab, not the, not the worst idea either. And before I let you go, I just want to thank you. You didn't mean to do this, but you do me a great idea for a summer topic of the most competitive position in all the sports NBA point cards. Very good. That is definitely the clubhouse leader for that topic that I will be doing. I think in the middle of July, if you're interested, Grange, just thank you for that. You're welcome to have me on at that point. Oh, all right. Oh, yeah. As long as I have a two time. Yeah. I was going to say. It's like I would never ever disrupt a tea time ever in my life. Thanks so much, man. Really appreciate it. Take care. Bye. There he goes. Michael Grange, his pleasure, just as much as it was ours quickly, Leafs tonight, Boston. Big week for the Leafs. They've played Boston twice. Big week for Boston. Leafs. Toronto twice. Edmonton. Yeah. Leafs. And the Leafs have, the Leafs have a Sabers game squeezed in there too, which you always know. I was like, I don't know how I feel about this one. And Montreal on Saturday. Yeah. Okay. Like the beginning of the season. Oh, and Revo will be able to take a day or two off from fighting. So him and Wi-Fi can get together maybe in that one. These games are a few and far between in terms of maybe measuring stick is too strong of a term in this one. But it's a big one. Leafs Bruins always matters. It really is going to matter today, especially with everything on the line in terms of playoff positioning and the Leafs have in games in hand. It's going to be a fun, fun week of Leafs hockey. And the Leafs and the fan base are always comparing themselves to the Bruins. And can we beat the Bruins? And I, I agree. I think, you know, if the Leafs can come out and win this game, you know, talk about having all that momentum after Saturday, when tonight goes a long way for the rest of the week. Boy, would it? And then you start climbing the standings there. Who knows how much that matters. Leafs are better on the road than they have been at home this year, but it certainly doesn't hurt to keep climbing, climbing up those standings. Marquesi, great job last week for you and Dan Yellie. Thanks for stepping in for Benny today. I'll keep my phone on. Allegedly. He's back tomorrow. It's a party show. Gotting him Marquesi. Sports 10-5-9. The fan. Good morning. [MUSIC]
