Meet Taya Jefferson! She is a licensed art therapist in New York, with over 6 years of experience. She is also spiritual and offers tarot services. You can find more information for Taya @ https://www.creativehealingwithtayaj.com/
Emotionally Unavailable
Episode 58: Creating
[MUSIC PLAYING] Welcome to Emotionally Unavailable, the podcast where we dive deep into the world of emotional availability and intimacy. I'm your host, Melissa Hepner. And I can't tell you how excited I am to have you join me on this journey of self-discovery and connection. Whether you're navigating the complexities of relationships or exploring your own emotional landscape, this podcast is here to inspire, empower, and entertain. So get cozy and let's explore the depths of human emotions together. Hey, guys. How are you? Hope everyone's doing well. How a good weekend. I certainly did. Today's episode is with Taya Jefferson. She's a therapist. She does art therapy and some other stuff in New York. She also is a spiritual counselor. I will make sure that all of her information is in the show notes. And I hope that you guys enjoy today's episode. [MUSIC PLAYING] Emotionally Unavailable. Hi. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Doing really well. Thank you. Well, first, can you tell me how you pronounce your name? Yes, my name is Taya Jefferson. Oh, I love that, OK. I'm a licensed creative arts therapist in New York. I've been practicing for over six years. I have a lot of experience with children, parenting, family issues. I have experience in the public school setting. I've worked with the elderly. And I'm also a spiritual coach and tarot advisor. I love that. I love too, because I'm doing more of that too, because I'm in Oklahoma, so it's kind of scary to come out about stuff like that. But I just love that people are kind of incorporating mental health with more woo-woo shit. I just love that. But yes, you were the person who responded about parents being their children first bully. OK. Is this something that you see? Because I've been thinking about this a lot. And I'm really thinking about moms, especially-- I mean, and I'm speaking as a mother who has been hypercritical at one point. But I really wanted to touch on those things that moms think they're doing to help their kid or protect their kids, but it really is just overbearing and creating so much pain in them. For instance, moms telling their kid that something isn't flattering on them or doesn't look good. And I'm just telling you, because I would hate for you to get made fun of at school. And I think they mean that earnestly. I really do think that. But I believe it causes a lot more harm than good. So I kind of wanted to touch on stuff like that. Yeah, definitely. I mean, that is something when I was working in the public school system, but I did go over a lot with some of the kids. Kids would be like, you know, I don't understand why. Yeah, just because people are bullies. And I just try to explain to them a lot of the times, those people that go and do things in their own house, with their parents, and most likely bullying them, or another guardian, you know, older sibling. And because they don't-- they can't be themselves at home. And they can't really express that anger. They come and they do it to more vulnerable people. I mean, kid their kids, but kids don't know any better where to put their hands there. Unfortunately-- and I have seen that, you know, with a lot of moms. Like people are like, oh, my mom sent me to this way. I don't need to do this. And it's like, oh, you know, you're already 12, though, you know. I don't have anything. But like, you know, I have a mother. And I wouldn't say she was that overbearing when I was younger, usually, like, to this day, like she compliments me and stuff like that, which is great. But I definitely did have an overbearing father with a narcissistic tendencies in there that looked like the whole house first bully. So I can definitely relate on that as well. Right. Yeah, father bullying, boy, that's next level shit. It really is because your dad, especially as a daughter, is you expect protection, safety, love, nurturing. And to not get that is like the ultimate betrayal to a daughter, you know? Yeah, that's definitely something that I've been struggling now in my adult life with. And, you know, nurturing my inner child on passing. Good thing, like, I can speak to my mom about a lot of things that, you know, she may have endured or decided to stick around for her, which caused my trauma. Right. And I'm able to express that to her. And she kind of understands it, especially with me being a therapist now. Like, you know, and I'm an adult. She sees my point of view, definitely, on many different aspects. But with father, I'm the oldest, and I'm the only girl. Oh, God. Yeah, that is definitely... It's a really deep-cut issue, and a lot of people go through it. A lot of people go through it, it's oddly enough. And I hate to say this. I don't know many too many good dads. Like, you know what I say, good dad. I mean, like a good man overall kind, or I thought, like, in my personal experience, I could maybe name one, but dad is not, you know. And how many... This is the thing I discovered early on in my podcast, like it just came up organically. And I was like, oh, shit. I wasn't raised with my dad. And for a lot of years, he was very inconsistent. We only saw him a few times a year, but we'd talk on the phone occasionally, whatever, towards the end of his life, that last year of his life, really. But the last couple, he was really taking an interest in whatever, but he died when I was 15. And my grandpa, my grandparents primarily raised us, but my grandpa left us when I was in sixth grade. So I had four aunts on my mom's side, each of them with husbands. And I had one aunt that I knew on my dad's side with a husband. Those were the only men I was ever around, but see, most of those uncles I only saw on holidays. They didn't come, just hang out or talk, they never talked to me. And I had one uncle that was my mom's brother. He just died, but I just was not around men that much. And every man I was around was detached, emotionally unavailable. Most of them abusive of sub-sort and struggled with some sort of substance issue. I mean, I just did not have a very good view of men. And then you add to that sexual abuse because your fucking mom left you with random people. I had such a mistrust of men, which I did not even identify until I was like, I've never really been around that many men to like form a bond or feel close to or feel safe in any way, you know? And I don't think that we really look at those experiences and how they shape us. - Yeah, so my parents with my father is like my complete opposite. I was raised by him most of my life to my late 20s. He was in my life and my parents were divorced. He decided he wanted to do it with his children. So it's like I'm 29, 30. And now my father has disappeared from my life. Now you're like, oh, like this is bringing up a whole new level of like trauma. 'Cause it's like now like you had your question married, you question, you know, people who's gonna be the father of my child, you know, you wanna make sure they don't disappear on them. And it's like, no matter if the dad left sooner or later, I've met people that it's still the same outcome. It's still, you're still missing that. And you're as an adult, I can't get a step back. You know, it's just the window. You know, my father lives 20 minutes away from me and he's alive and well, but we don't speak because of, he doesn't know how to, you know, be vulnerable, put the same to the side, you know, be gentle, you know, be nurturing and have empathy. I luckily I had a parent that did do that, my mom, but you know, it's still, even though she did her part, his part makes, so it makes a huge, a huge difference. - Oh, absolutely. And God, yeah, the trauma that comes from being abandoned in that manner after everything else he did, that I can imagine you being like, are you fucking kidding? Like you did all of this and now you, like if you were gonna just abandon me, I wish you had done that, like when I was 10, so that you could have saved me a hell of a lot of trouble. - I feel like that sometimes is I'm like, you know what, if my, my mom didn't stay for a certain amount of time, then I wouldn't have both my siblings and like life could be like, unfortunately, it was a difficult part of my life, but I feel like it helped me to be kind of who I am. - No. - And you know, led me to the route of being a therapist and wanted to have other children and help parents, even though I'm not a parent, I have parents and I've worked with parents, so I feel like I have a good bit of experience. - Right, yeah. - I mean, you are a child to somebody. - Yeah. - So you very much know what parents impact. - Mm-hmm. And nobody knows how to be a parent. It's all just, you know, trial and error and going off of what you're raised with and if that's not great, then you really don't know. You, we don't have like something to start off with. So I definitely, yeah, that's why I kind of enjoy, you know, working with families and parents and children. - Yeah, 'cause you kind of get to give them a little bit of a compass, like, hey, you know, I mean, 'cause you can see sometimes people are trying their hardest, they're doing their very best and you can see with just a little bit of mindset shift what difference they could be making in a positive way in their kid's life. But as it is, we're all just stuck in our own toxic cycles, just trying to survive, you know, unless you're doing the kind of work that is required on yourself to not take the entire world as an attack on you. - Mm-hmm, yep, and that is, if you're not, you know, you still being on a healing journal, you used to go into therapy or don't have like a good, you know, model for those things. You're gonna people, you know, our age and even older but then it'd be like, oh, I don't, they're not gonna wanna work on that because it's kind of scary to work on something that you've been making mistakes on for so many years to become the part of you. And even though it's not a good part of you but it's a part that some people get too comfortable with unfortunately. - Mm-hmm, yeah, I can't tell you the amount of shame and pain I had to sit in when I first started healing for real. Like I've done a lot, a lot, a lot of work my whole life because I have a very extensive history of trauma but it wasn't until I started understanding the root of things because I could cry my best to regulate my nervous system but that was the only tool I had and I couldn't stop overthinking. So how well do you think I did it that? Not great. And so whenever I first started understanding the root of my shit and kind of gaining this compassion for myself I had to start with, damn, I have relief. This was the only thing I cared about being good at, like my whole life and I'm like way not good at it. And then you evolve a little bit, whether you're talking about parenting or your job or whatever, you evolve a little bit and you go, no, like there is no good or bad unless you're talking extremes. This is all just life and every person's got something to deal with and what would life be if there was no conflict? I mean, I said this on an intro the other day, like all the movies, all the books that we love, they have a good amount of conflict that the heroine or whatever you wanna call has to work out to succeed and become the hero at the end, you know, everybody has to go through something and so I think, you know, I've started to give myself more grace and compassion and understanding and plus I just love myself so much more now as a human and so I can accept any mistakes I make as long as I know I'm doing my very best and I do my very best to repair whenever it's done but what scares me is seeing still women particularly of my generation perpetuating some of this emotional unavailability with their kids where it still rubs some dirt on it or walking off or if it's not that, it's like, why won't you wear this kind of clothes? Why are you so hell bent on this? Instead of just sitting with your kid where they are in that moment and that's the thing that really just bugs me is like, man, you gotta heal so that you're not asking your kid to make up for everything you didn't get in childhood. - Yeah, it's like, it's rooted in a lot of anxiety and I've seen it with people in my work today. Like, parents need to understand that your child is not your property, they are human and they also need to learn how to navigate life with you and without you. You can give all your advice, you cannot make them much more when they get to teenagers, you really cannot make them do what you wanna do and then I think a lot of parents forget that when they were teenagers, they wanted to do whatever they wanted to do, they probably had the nagging from their parents as well, but then they just continue because they're not gonna need the help or not seeing that that's wrong what they're doing. - Right. - And then I see kids that are like in the seventh eighth grade talking about they can't wait to go to college and get away from their mom and I'm like, yes. So young to, I wasn't thinking about college in middle school, you know, but I do understand that feeling and if I got an older, like, I just wanna get out of here and it's like, taking that as a child, like already making a really mature decision because you feel like you're like your parents not gonna stop and if you tell them what they're doing, it's just gonna make it worse. - Right, yeah, and my middle kid, he was born to be a middle kid and he has really taught me like you can do whatever you want. If they wanna do it, they're gonna do it and I wasn't going to give him more dangerous solutions by trying to imprison him in my own value system. So I was like, all right, all right, let's talk about harm reduction here. You know, I had to become open to philosophies that I would have scoffed at years ago, but to me, I'm meeting him where he is. He gonna do what he wanna do, whether without my fucking permission. And I'm now kind of like, okay with that because I've seen him evolve into a 17 year old who really can make pretty good decisions for himself. He can weigh and measure consequences. He can predict consequences in a way that he never could be for because he doesn't have me telling him everything he should and shouldn't be doing. I'm just standing back like, yo, how can I support you? And you know, I have to make sure that I'm not doing too much of that. And then I'm leaning in and making sure he feels nurtured and supported, but that's even like my daughter's 10. And I'm on this road of repair with her 'cause in some ways she's getting the best of me now, but she got the very worst of me too. So before the best, she got the worst. And so I'm like trying to repair and just, you know, I'm seeing some of the programming already and seeing some of her little people pleasing perfectionists tendencies and whatever. And the other day, I was like, man, I gotta teach her this. I gotta teach her that. And then I was like, no, Melissa, because what you're gonna do, well, if you do that, she gonna feel the exact same way as if you were just being a straight up bitch. You're telling her she needs to be something different than what she is, honor who she is. And the programming that she believes at this time, model what you want, but don't sit and lecture or criticize because she will still feel unsupported and fundamentally unlovable if you're telling her who she is at her core isn't good enough. - Mm-hmm, and those choices stick with us as we grow up. You know, that negative nagging voice is usually somebody that told you that about yourself, you know, working, and you used to love to sing. And somebody told you, oh, that's required with that noise and nothing. - Mm-hmm. - Mm-hmm. - Unfortunately, adults, when they're too busy focusing on them and not any of life, they forget like we're all just living. And like, when we were kids, we were loud. And, you know, instead of being so aggressive, it's a way to go up, you know, to talk to kids, they're humans and they deserve respect as well. I think a lot of parents, they are worried that if they trust their kids too much, that it's going to go all wrong. But it means a lot to kids when their parents trust them. I hear a lot of kids say, my parents don't trust me, my parents don't trust me. - Yeah. - And that would be frustrating living in a house with your parents not trusting you and you didn't even do anything wrong, you know? - Yeah, there's this presumed guilt. - Mm-hmm. - Like, you're going to do this already because this is what I did. Other kids are doing it. It's like, trust yourself that you raise your kids properly and trust your kids to, you know, follow the little, you know, little robo that you gave them. But a lot of people don't trust their own parenting because they don't even trust their own parents. So, you know, like that generational trauma gets passed out. And it just continues. 'Cause a lot of kids, I have met like, you know, they're, what are they? They're gen X and they're like the first kids. They're the first people in their family going to therapy. And they're not even teenagers yet. And it's like, that's a lot of, you know, to take on and healing. 'Cause, I mean, I wasn't the first one to go to therapy, but I was one of the first. That's a lot to take on as a child. Like you're trying to heal, but then you're going back home to the nonsense still because that's all healing, yeah. - Yeah, well, and then you're kind of responsible for everyone around you's healing at that point because you know better. And so you're trying to instruct the people around you to do better with you. And it's like, damn, I can't carry this whole ship on my back, y'all, come on. - Yeah, yeah, but I've had parents, you know, tell their kids, oh, I don't see any progress in you. And I'm like, how could they say that they're not in therapy, you know? - I mean, and who says that? - Yeah, exactly. And then if you really, I think it's a lot of times that that is set out of anger in an argument with the teenager. And instead of just, if you really felt that way, then you should have contacted the therapist, you should already have meeting, you know, but obviously you don't really feel that way. 'Cause I used to say like, I want your parents to tell me to my face that they don't see any progress. 'Cause that means we're not doing anything here, you know? And we are, and they need that. And if I'm fortunate, I've had a lot of kids tell me like, you know, miss him, you're the only adult that looks at me in my face when I'm talking, my mom doesn't even do it. And I'm like, I just think, 'cause that's just how I am, I just think it's that you're normal to do that, but there are people who won't give that attention or can not give that attention, and it really matters. - It does, and like, I have two teen clients right now, and I'm like, hey, I need you to understand. I'm probably not gonna be like anyone you've ever met, 'cause I'm gonna talk to you just like I talked to my kids, like I talked to podcast guests. I do not have a really firm line between my private self and my public self, because this has always been who I am. I heal a part of myself, and I share. I've always wanted to impact the world in this way, and it's how I connect with people. And, you know, like, I've tried really hard to make it clear, like, this is what you're gonna get with all my clients, but especially the teens, because I want them to feel comfortable, and, you know, I'm always like, hey, it's not gonna hurt my feelings if you say you wanna switch, like, whatever, you just, you do what's best for you, 'cause I'm not gonna take it personally, but I know I'm not for everyone, because I'm not changing my style. You know, like, I'm gonna show up to every session, my best self, and my most authentic self, and you're gonna get all of that, but damn dude, the way they're, one of my, one of my teens, the lights came on, and they sat up so straight to see, I'm not just gonna automatically side with your parents. - You know, like, I'm just so surprised. - And when you talk, I can tell you don't either, and making kids just feel so seen when you're like, yeah, dude, that's fun. Like, that's not cool, you know, like, yeah, that shouldn't have happened, or you're so valid in this way, and I'll be really honest. You know, one of my teens is seeing me because they are a procrastinator. I'm gonna put them close, and I'm like, oh my God. You know, so I'm like, okay, well, why is that a problem? Why should you not be a procrastinator? 'Cause I'm trying to boil down to like, it doesn't fucking matter in the grand scheme of teens. You know, like, there's an issue here, but it's not that you're fundamentally unlovable, that you are dumb because, you know, who intentionally puts things off, that they know is gonna cause them more problems. So you must be dumb, you're not that, you're not a bad human, you're not a fundamental fuck up, you're just a person struggling with time boundaries. So let's work on that, and also the feelings attached to this shit now, because you've now got a core wound that says you're a fuck up. So let's work on that. But also, let's make small incremental steps in a journey towards better time boundaries and time management. That's nothing, that's not about morality and it's not about emotion. But so many parents, I included at one time, will put this pressure on their kids out of our own fear. You said it so much as anxiety based. Yes, I've recognized as a mother that everything they said or did made me so scared. First of all, I was constantly afraid one of them would like, you know, well, I was afraid my middle one was gonna be addicted to heroin by high school, I'm not even playing. So anything that happened, I was leading with that in the forefront of my reason, or just scared that they would grow up and hate me and leave me. I didn't want any more loss in my life, scared that they would die, scared that I'm fucking up. And so that makes me react a certain way, whereas now they can say something that really kind of pisses me off a little bit in the moment and I can sit there and be like, huh-uh. That wound that they have, I know where this is coming from, I know that's why they're saying it and I'm gonna sit with them in this because they deserve for me to, to sit and own the things I've done to bring this very moment up. And I, every chance I get to sit and, and kind of hold space for that really tense moment and just be like, hey, I'm not moving, I get it. I'm here, I have compassion for you. What, how can I help? You know, I know that what you're saying isn't what you mean. So what's going on? Because I'm not afraid anymore. I'm not living in a place of fear or a place of hatred for myself. I mean, I really fucking like myself. You know, and it makes a real big difference. - Yeah, it does. I don't know if you've probably read the book Daring Great Leave by Brene Brown. - I have not, I know who she is and I've read, I've listened to all kinds of stuff, but I quit reading a few years ago because I got real depressed and I just had an enjoy in it. So I know about it, but I haven't read it. - When you were talking about, she talks about that. It's all about being vulnerable and when you're not vulnerable, the shame comes up and shame comes up and the anger or the yelling, the thing that you don't mean. And what you're saying sounds like you are at that stage now where you're able to say like, oh, well, this is making me feel a little shameful. That means I'm feeling vulnerable. Let's practice it. You know, instead of being, oh, I'm shameful and now I gotta make you feel shameful instead of how much it's in your work. You know, yeah, like, so that book, and then it has a chapter on wholehearted parenting as a chapter on being vulnerable in the workplace and how that is corporations stop with shame and stuff. It's a really helpful book. I didn't finish it 'cause it's a really long, like her chapter's really long. - Yeah. - My friend told me about it and I was like, oh, wow, like she's speaking to me. (laughs) - Well, this is the thing. We're all the same. I'm learning that we are all the same. I'm saying it on every episode now because it doesn't take much for people to say a couple sentences and I'm like, damn, you're just lightning. And yeah, everything looks a little bit different. If you don't dig, just a smidge and see that, oh, we really do all have the same attachment wounds. Some are bigger, some are smaller, you know, but like my betrayal wound's a lot bigger than most people I know, but everybody's got a little bit of a betrayal wound, you know? - Yeah. - And we're all the same and we're all doing the same shit. Even if it looks different, even if it sounds like a different language, no matter what, we're doing the same stuff to ourselves and to the people that we love. And I'm not surprised to hear that she's got a book that was so successful about those topics because that's the stuff I'm seeing every day. They're on the podcast or with clients is like, oh, man. But I think that's why I am so impactful in practice is because I really get it. I've done this work like inside and out. I know myself, I'm sure there's still blind spots. I'll never say there's not. I really embarrassed myself not knowing so much about myself. But you know, I mean, when you start to discover yourself and you can just embrace every ounce of who you are, what you may have called bad before is just a part of you now, you know? When you can do all of that, it's a lot easier to stand in front of anybody, hear anything they say and not be destroyed by it. - Yeah, it's like once you finally get over the fear of just anything, the fear of how someone's gonna react to the fear of how a scenario may go, like a lot of times, fear is made up. Like we're making it up with the scenarios and the overthinking that we're doing. And then you go and you tell your friend what's been on your mind and they're like, oh, yeah, no problem. And it's like, see, like you've been overtaking it for all months. - Yeah. - So if you were to just get rid of the fear, dive into the vulnerability and you'll be just fine. And you have to, if it doesn't work out, they have to say, well, I was vulnerable and that was my intention to do my part. And that's all that I can do. Like, you know, as a lot of people, I mean, I don't know, people are ashamed of feeling feelings when we're humans, we're made with feelings, like, you know, whoever anybody believes created us. They created us to be like, you know, very complex beings that can feel like we're not like animals. We can talk, we can use words, we have some, you know, we- - Right. Yes, I, that has been the biggest discovery for me was that I did have so much shame about silly stuff, but, you know, like, I couldn't be vulnerable with even myself because I was ashamed of having the feeling in the first place because I was raised being told I was too sensitive. So, oh, feelings are bad, we have to turn those off. Oh, okay, great, got it. And so I couldn't, even at first, whenever I was doing this work and I was starting to try to share myself with like my husband, I would sit there and almost cry just to say something so small because it was so scary and embarrassing. - Yeah, I'd love to say that. I was scared of being embarrassed and afraid of- - Yes. - It's nothing to be involved about and if the other person makes you feel that way, then you know that that person may not be a person for you. - Right, yeah, I mean, that's the thing is that, that's kind of how I've determined who stayed and who didn't is your initial response to me expressing a feeling doesn't, it won't get you cut off because I know that if you haven't done this work, your shame requires you to talk shit back, right? But usually, you know, they sit with it for a second and then they're okay and they come back. I can accept that, I was that person too, so I get that. But it's a very small number of people that I'm allowing in my world anymore because I have found so much peace within myself and the bubble I've created in my home because me becoming happier has changed the dynamic of my entire family and nothing is worth risking that. There's not a single person on earth that I would give that up for because I've never felt this level of peace and neither has my household. I was the reason everybody walked on eggshells. My husband is like the most quiet dude. I mean, that's what every crazy woman needs. But, you know, he's so quiet and sweet and kind and whatever. He was very emotionally unavailable before we started this journey. But, you know, it wouldn't have mattered if he was available or not 'cause I could not accept his love for me anyway because I was so consumed with self-hatred. But, peace is my currency now. If it's gonna cost that, it ain't happening. We ain't buying it because this is the life that I've always wanted. And when you step into who you are with full authenticity, you don't hate those parts of yourself that you used to hate your humanness. - Oh no. - I love being a human because it makes me have experiences that being a robot would never afford. - Yeah, and it's crazy just how, you know, life changes in just a second. And then when you go through those things and then you find and look back, you're like, that was a really tough time. But, if I had to go through that again, that'd be like a piece of cake. 'Cause now I know what to do. - Yes. Yeah, yes, something that used to set me off. Now I'm like, okay, I know what this is. Cool, well, let's do it. - Yep, that's, and I relate to that 'cause I have been working on not being a people pleaser anymore this year. And it's like, oh my God, just the saying no or the aspect of it. - Yeah. - I feel like the world's gonna end. And I'm like, you just gotta tell people that I'm pleasing too much and I have to stop. And if they love you, they will accept their work on it with you. And if they don't, then it'll go the other way. And it hasn't been easy. I mean, I left my last job basically 'cause I have to stop being a pleaser working in a public school. I have to get out of here. I can't say no one has to do with the kids. I can't say no and I'm taking on too much. And then that like this whole summer just the theme is just like peace because I don't even know how I got through that working in that place for so long. - And that part just left with a school and I was in hell. - And I love the kids. I love the work I was doing, but the politics and I'm a therapist. I don't wanna hear about nothing else besides therapy. I just wanna be here for the kids. And it was like boundaries. When you're a field pleaser, it's hard to sit on boundaries. And I tell my mom, my workplace should not make me feel like I'm back as a young kid coming home and worried that comes out to my dad. That's how I was feeling, I work, I'm coming to my father. - Yes, oh my God, that's such a good way to put that. But see, this is what I noticed in education 'cause I had the opposite problem. I had done the people-pleasing boundary work before I ever entered education seven years ago. Now, I was only a school counselor for four years, but I was, I attempted teaching, it was cute. Anyway, I was like, let's go with the skillset we actually have here. You have a master's in social work, let's try that. So, I started to notice that A, education calls to the codependent. And B, the system relies on the codependent. So if I set a boundary, like, I was like, in my contract times 315, I'm getting the hell out of here. No, I will not come in early unless you abide by the contract and let me leave early. I will not do this unless you abide by the contract and give me this because I was like, y'all got me fucked up. I already made way too little to be doing this work job. Y'all, I'm gonna get shit for free from me. You're already getting my soul, but I'm not doing it. And so, when you set those boundaries, as you know, boundaries to a codependent person feel like abandonment and you get all their shit. Like, what do you mean to, and if they've been used to you doing all of this stuff, then all of a sudden, you've just left them. And I'm like, honey, that ain't my problem to solve for you. I'm so sorry, but that's not gonna be me, huh? - For me, it was like, oh, you're not gonna have people please anymore and you're gonna give us boundaries. You just went from our top employees to our worst employee. That's basically what-- - Exactly, exactly. And they treat you like shit. - There's a lot of bullying and trying to make me so shameful. And I'm like, no, I know who I am and this job, it's not gonna make me lose that, my license. - Yeah. - I'm not gonna lose the respect of these children. So I'm gonna have to go. I'm burnt out, I have to make my acquisition. And it was not an easy decision on my end at all. But it was like, it had to be done because, I mean, in Brittany Brown Brook, she talks about that how the school system is and it's full of people that are emotional and available and they're always just shaming the kids all the time. You're gonna air it along, you're shaming them. And it's just like, it's a cycle. It's just not like, you know, I wish it was a little bit better, the public school system. - Me too, how could it be? It's not no funding, you know? - Yeah. - Mm-hmm. - Well, that's exactly what I noticed. And I was like, oh, honey, listen, I've worked in hospice for a long time, so like, I have really good work home boundaries. You're not gonna get me planning on a Sunday. You're not gonna get me meeting on a Sunday. No, no, no, no, no. If you don't give me the time for that while I'm getting paid, it will not get done. Coffee, no. But yes, the vicious nature that will come out because, think about it, it's a bunch of really wounded people, mostly women, who have been taught to hate each other. And there's all this weird competitive stuff. And let's be real, principles perpetuate that competition. Thank you so, and so for showing up to (mumbles) and I don't, and yeah, it would burn me a little bit, but not enough for me to be like, okay, I'm gonna show up next no bit. Good. - Good. - Good. - Good. - Nicely, good for you. - That was like me and I'm wearing a badge about it. - I'll show you a name. - People would just get so frustrated with me and I'm like, yeah, but why, first of all, I have no respect for that person. No, and if they had any for me, they wouldn't fucking ask me to do it in the first place. Why, why, why? No, I'm not gonna do that. And it, even like, because I worked in a very, very high need school, every child there experienced a real good level of trauma. And this last year that I was there, I was so burnout and I was in a very serious mental health crisis related to feeling so stuck there, you know, I didn't feel brave enough to quit and do this shit that I've wanted to do my whole life. And I was hating myself and everyone else because I couldn't do it. And I would be like, well, damn, every kid needs a group, like I can't run 30 groups a day. You know, it was just overwhelming. And so I would tell these teachers like, I can't even walk to the bathroom without being stopped to discuss a kid, which violates a lot of shit. But being, why is that fair to me? I'm just supposed to remember all this random stuff that was said when I just needed to pee. Like, no, use the communication form or text or email, but stop with this shit. Because it's not fair. I don't deserve that. I should get to go to the bathroom and you do what I've asked you to do 35 times. And I would not address a concern until they did it the right way. And it made a lot of enemies. And I just was left with no fucks to give about it because I'm like, hey, guess who's been a teacher before? Me in this exact same district and I swear to God, I had a plan time where I could send an email. It's not my fault that it's not a priority to you on your plan. But my priority is going to the damn bathroom. - Yeah, I noticed working in a school when there are obviously not other mental health professionals around you're usually the only one or there's one of a few, the people that are non clinicians do not understand that we are humans. I went to school to be a therapist, but that's not all that I am. And they feel like you're a robot. You don't need to use the bathroom. You don't need that snack. You can take on another kid. And it's like, I'm doing my best, you know what I'm saying? Like, don't compare me to the teachers. All the teachers see this many kids. Teachers are teaching, don't know. - Yeah, you're not getting emotional with kids or really the major ass behavior. - Yeah, in the school I was at, had a lot of ideations, a lot of the education, you know, a lot of stress of getting good grades was leading to mental health. And I knew that when I chose that school. But that is just like, what do you guys want me to do? I can only see so many kids. And yes, I'll check in with whatever kid I can 'cause this is why I keep a came here to work with kids. That's the work with the adults acting like children. And, you know, and then it just continues just, it just continues because like the people I do care are people that cannot stay there. My friend told me, if you love children, you'll don't work with them. Because you don't work around people who don't love the children. It's gonna hurt you and you're like trying to figure out why is this happening. I've seen like some teachers, janitors, screaming at Lou, little second graders. And I'm like, oh my. - Yeah, three K kids, three K kids I've seen that shit. - I had a principal, she screamed at about like 40 of my students when they were all in line coming from their classes with their teachers. And I witnessed it and I was terrified. And I could only imagine if they're terrified 'cause they might live with somebody that is actively doing this in their home. And I used to have someone yelling like this in my home. - Me and the kids, like in sessions and like in passing, we were talking about that for a month. Like, wasn't that crazy? That's scary. And I got them. I was scared too. Like I see what I saw her yelling I went. I got like, you know, my superior 'cause like what is happening over a little makeshift sign falling by accident. Like it's not that scary, you know? And then it's like, you're shouting at kids saying, oh, I'll kick you out of this program. It was an after school program. I'll keep the guys out and all this stuff. And your teachers don't know what they're doing. And I'm like, you're disrespecting the kids, the staff. You're showing the kids how to disrespect the staff. - Yes. - So, you know, staff have to respect the kids. It was just like, the way that school was ran. Unfortunately, it was a school in the urban neighborhood but it was the principal was white and all people at the top for living in Long Island, you know? And they didn't live in the neighborhood. So they don't know what these kids are going through outside the building, you know? And they don't even care. - People who did, even the people who had that life as a child, you know, they haven't healed. And so they're doing all of the things that were done to them. And I mean, even I did, when I was a teacher, like I would lose my shit for a second and then be like, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry that wasn't about you, you know? Like, I mean, I made mistakes 'cause I was just dysregulated as fuck. I had no idea what I was doing. But I was trying my very best and we, listen, that first year kids probably did not learn a damn thing about school. I'll tell you that. But they learned a lot about life 'cause mama would just get tired and be like, all right, girls, come goth it, boys, y'all, just do you want to come? (laughing) - Yeah, the kids are like, we love the teachers that talk about their life. We just keep asking, but they don't gotta do work. (laughing) - They're like, just come sit down. What's going on with y'all? How are you doing? But they, when I run into them, they do still tease me. Like, remember how like, you just didn't really tease? - Yeah, yeah, yeah, I got a lot of trouble for that too. So quit saying that, please. (laughing) But like, we had the best time though. Like, they're seniors now. My first class was, and I'm like, okay, as many of those graduations as I can go to, I really want to because, like those are my kids, you know? Like, we bonded, we were in hell together and I didn't know what I was doing and they didn't know what they were doing. And I'm like, my kids, readers, dumbasses unite. That's all I know. Like, let's just be together in our not knowing shit because I was looking around and I'm like, I know that ain't it. And those old school teachers, bro. I'm like, why aren't you fucking saying that to a kid? You shouldn't say it to yourself or an adult, let alone a baby. What the hell? - But those type of experiences, like, you know, like, when you try and figure it out and you're showing the kids that I don't have it all together, those are the ones that those kids will always remember. And I've had a moment once my group session got interrupted and I had it. And I told the kids, session is over. I'm not mad at any of you. This has nothing to do with any of you. But I need to stop right now. And they were like, oh, Ms. Taylor is upset. They know I don't want the interruptions. I don't like the interruptions. It's like, come on, you're breaking confidentiality. The kids know this, so it's adults interrupting me. - Yup. - And I was just like, you know what? And the kids, they would always be like, nobody can come in, we always gotta cover it. We're going to our therapy, please. Do not ask. (laughs) And I'm like, the kids have to see that moment 'cause in that moment, after I brought the kids back to everybody else, I went in the bathroom and I had to break down for 15 minutes and decided I can't do this anymore. But I was like, oh no, like I used to love coming to this place. But now just, you start feeling like you're falling into that corporate dread, that's what it is. - Yeah. - Do you know what I'm feeling more? You're scared of mobile, you're here to make money and that's fine for some people. But when you're a mental health professional, you cannot be a robot 'cause every moment is different. Especially in a school where you have emergencies going on with which students, you don't have time so I didn't notice that or I miss that because I'm being a robot, you know? And I don't think people who have never studied is what a basic psychology class, they don't really understand. - Listen, all those teachers had to take child development classes, that's what freaks me out. - I'm like, how do you not know? - Yeah, I don't, it's sad and it just shows you, like when kids all have favorite teachers and they don't like, it's because the favorite teachers let them be the favorite adult, let's act like a child with them. I've had a kid throw some lime on the ceiling in sessions. And I'm like, well, I guess I gotta climb there and get it 'cause we're both getting trouble, you know? - Yeah, I might be like, oh, we're never doing flam again. And they learn that big difference. Like, oh, you're our therapist, you're not our teacher, you're not nothing, like, they will come to me for other things that are not therapy-related outside of session, but they knew, like, for the most part, like, I'm not here to yell, I'm not here to read voice, I'm not here to danger, I'm just here to make sure it was safe mentally and physically, you know? - Right, you were meeting them where they were. - Yeah, and it's like, I've had kids, I don't want to talk to you for sessions. Okay, when I'm gonna talk, I'm gonna draw my picture over here, you can do you, and then when they see you doing it, they're like, oh, they really just let me do whatever, they're like, whoa, let me just have my head down, and I'm like, this is your session, I don't, I'm okay. I took them, I don't get there for hours, this is free therapy, I'm giving you. So whatever you want to do, I mean, if you remember, and then those same kids at the end of the school year, they're like, I enjoyed this, I love doing this, and they're graduating now, and they're like, and it made a big difference. I could've been like, you know what, that kid wants to keep his head down, I'm not tolerating it, and that's what a lot of- - Yeah, but you go, that you go, yeah. Instead of asking what is going on, why do you want to do this? - Yeah, why do you wear your hood all day? Instead of yelling at them, what's going on? Oh, you had to shave your head, 'cause you had lies? Oh, I feel that, you don't have to take your hood off, I get it, that first couple days of that, that you pull like shit. - I had that situation, but the saved head was a punishment, and they went to- - We did, we did. - The whole school day, everybody's just yelling at them, and then they come to after school where I am, and one of my asking teachers was kind enough to say, why are you mad, and why is your hood on? And he told them, and then they told me, and then it went further, and we spoke to the schools, spoke to the parents, and it's like all day, y'all been yelling at this kid about his hoodie being gone, he never does that. Nobody took them to ask, because that's so crazy to me. - Yep, I put out a Facebook reel about that, not too long ago, because I encountered it again, but I've just seen it so many times, and I'm like, I don't know why this was a rule to begin with, except for quote unquote, safety, but like, if a kid is feeling this horrible about their appearance, let's just let them, let's just let you see, why do we need to traumatize them? - Yeah, and I'll have moments like that. You wanna go take a walk, like you said, I'm supposed to cry, and in your room, so the kids go take a walk, go to the bathroom, how 'bout I give you the keys to the teachers bathroom? You know, like... - Exactly, exactly. - You're ready to tell somebody on the walkie to call me, and I'm gonna come find you. A lot of this kids that would go AWOL from the day school program and come looking for me. - Yes. - You know, and I'm like, I don't work with you at this time, but what do you need, come on, you wanna say here, you wanna stack, we gotta stack, what do you need so that I can get you back to class, 'cause I have a meeting, we're gonna offer you. - I'm not trying to get in trouble for you being missing, so I'm gonna take the phone for that. - No. - Yeah, it's kinda just dismissing him, and now he's somewhere doing something that's supposed to be doing, and not getting in trouble. You know? - Mm-hmm. - And I feel like a lot of kids, they need that safe at all, and I feel like that's why they came as therapists. I wanted to be able to have someone, I wish I had someone like me, like I have a brother, my youngest brother, we're a decade apart, 10 years apart, so he's starting 20, I'm starting 30s, and he's like, oh, I just graduated, I don't know what to do, and I saw him when I was 22, I didn't know I wanted to be a therapist, I was gonna be a doctor, I was dealing with, you know, my father, our father always yelling, and you were so little, so you don't remember, and like, you don't have to worry about that. Like, you don't have to, you don't have to have it all together, like, at all. And if somebody told me that when I was 22, 'cause I would've made a lot of different decisions, probably. (laughs) - Word, wouldn't we all? Well, I have really enjoyed our conversation, I hate whenever I have to cut off early, but I have really booked myself solid tonight, and I have a client next, and I think it's snack. - It was a good conversation, and yeah, you gotta take that self-care and go your classroom, and all that stuff. (laughs) - Yeah, yup, 'cause it's gonna be a whole hour, so I don't remember when I ate last, and that's never a good sign, so. - Yeah. (laughs) - But I really appreciate that, you know, I just put it on threads, and you responded, and I just, thank you so much for this, and is it cool if I tag you whenever I post the episode and all that? - Oh, I'm excited, yup. - Okay, well, thank you so much. - Okay, awesome, thank you so much. - Thank you for having me, have a good night. - You too, bye-bye. (upbeat music) ♪ Emotionally unavailable ♪ - Hey, hey, hey, what do you say? Listen. First and foremost, please make sure that you have provided this podcast with a five-star rating on whichever platform that you are listening. If you want to support the show, please rate, like, and share. Also, like, comment, and share on any social media posts that you see for me on Instagram, or Facebook, or TikTok. Please follow the podcast Facebook, emotionally unavailable podcast. You can shop my foot online, store, or schedule a one-on-one with me, emotionally unavailablepodcast.org. I'm offering what I'm calling non-traditional counseling, astrology readings, and tarot readings. And thank you so much for listening to the emotionally unavailable podcast. (upbeat music) ♪ Emotionally unavailable ♪ - All right, hope that you liked that episode with me and Taya. I really liked our conversation. That shared some really good insights, and I hope you guys liked it. So, I don't know, I don't really have anything else to say. I'm excited about this week, and all the good stuff coming up. So many things are going well, so I hope that you guys are doing well too. And until next time, let's all just keep swimming. (upbeat music) ♪ Emotionally unavailable ♪ n-d-e-p-e-and-cut