Modern Soccer Coach Podcast

Inside the Barca Residency Academy with Ged Quinn!

We were recently joined by Ged Quinn, Academy Director of Barca Residency Academy in Arizona.

The Barca style of play has become world renowned over the years, but how do you teach that methodology at the younger ages and, more important, what does it look like when an individual professional pathway is the ultimate goal. Ged provides outstanding insight into the coaching methodology at Barca Academy and how it fits into the landscape of the United States.

Duration:: 59m
Broadcast on:: 09 Sep 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

You can still play it at an intensity and a quick tempo, with comportia. You know, I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. I think you can have both, and I think that's the key. When we had the partnership coming with Barcelona, it was very much they pride themselves on. The winning is a consequence of how we play. But you've always got to, I think, understand the why are you doing it, as opposed to, well, I've seen this exercise being done, and now I'm gonna do that in my training sessions. It's a challenging environment, but it's such a fun environment to be in as well. - Hello, coaches. Welcome back to another modern soccer coach, Breakdown. Big one today. Jed Quinn, Academy Director at the Barca Residence Academy, and Arizona joins us to talk about how they structure tactical teaching, the Barca methodology, their approach to player development, and how others co-exist in a US culture as well. Fasten it and fasten it, then say it from Jed. If you enjoy, please like, please subscribe, please share it with your coaching community. It means a lot. And also, please check out the new content, all the free content over modernsoccercoach.com. Tons of information out there. It's uploaded multiple times during the week, so there's loads of free stuff, no login required. You can just go on there, grab the stuff, and hopefully share it with your coaching network. Thank you so much for the support. Here is Jed, enjoy. Jed, thanks so much for joining me today on the Modern Soccer Coach podcast. Really, really excited chat. Yeah, no, thanks for having me on, Gary. Looking forward to talking with you as well. The evolution of Barca is where I want to start. There's obviously, this is going to get a lot of interest with coaches. I mean, how many coaches in this country have been trying to play like Barca for the last 10, 15 years? The Housens. But the style has evolved, and I did a recent interview about this here, and I find this really interesting, where football stages, they're kind of like fashion. Some goes in and out, but Barca's been consistent across the board. And when you're trying to apply that at a youth level and to people coming up, I'm fascinated by basically where you see the evolution either in the system or in the player profile at the club. Yeah, it's a good question, Gary. I think you're not being here in the academy here for seven years, and I think that the principles of it are very much still the same. But I do think the game, as we all know, is constantly evolving, it's constantly changing, it's constantly new ideas coming in and new concepts coming in. I think the big thing for me that I've seen is maybe the perception of the positional game and the positional style of player is very rigid in how it would be played. And I think it's actually evolving a little bit that way and where maybe it's now viewed as a lot less rigid and there's a lot more fluidity and dynamism that goes in with that. And that's something that I've definitely seen here. I always think back to, in other words, there's probably a viral clip that goes back to when, I think Henri's talking about the wing of staying high and wide and creating the space for somebody else. And I think that's still applicable in the game, and that still happens a lot. But I also think there's times when maybe there's the movement and there's the fluidity that goes with it and it's the occupation of the space that then creates the advantages that the players are looking for. And for example, the 4-3-3 formation that we play is very fluid still in that we'll try and talk to the boys. Well, if we're building that against maybe a 4-4-2 formation or a 4-4-2 press, what does that mean? There's an option of there's multiple solutions, but maybe it's center backs go wide. The six drops in and you now look like you're almost playing a 3-4-3, but it's very fluid and everybody knows their role, everybody knows their responsibility. And you almost want it to be a little bit of that. You want the players to restructure around the ball, restructure around the opponent and base themselves on where the teammates are, where the opposition is. And we have the luxury here. We have the bar some methodology directors that meet with us daily, weekly. And we've had some really smart guys in the past that have come through and been part of the process. And they talk about the complex systems and how that ties into how using real-life scenarios into relating it to the game. It's fascinating to listen to them, dissect it a little bit and go into the depths of it and look at how those relations apply to the game of soccer as well and how it involves the positional play game that we all want to try and play here at our end. - The piece that I think analysis has added is that we're now that rigidity. Sometimes analysis leans into that a little bit where you can look at something and you don't really know what's coach led or what's just natural state of the game. And I've even seen some of the Barcelona analysis and I've listened to a few presentations and they are ahead of the game in terms of the detail that they're looking at the game. So when you add the detailed approach and you add this system that's been consistent, is there a trap sometimes or even a temptation to lean in the information information information as a coach or I guess how do you combat that there or are you still have that fluidity in it? - Yeah, it's another good question, Gary. I think one of the things we would always say when the bot, when you ask the boss a guy is a question that answer you always get is, well, it depends. It depends on the context. It depends on the situation. And that's sometimes where our boys have to understand that as well. We always say that differentiator is in the decision-making process. How do the boys consistent make the right decisions? And that's dictated by a lot of different factors. Where the team is, where are we on the field? Where's the opposition? What's the score sometimes even? That can dictate everybody's actions. But it is definitely where we'll try and very rarely. So you always have to do this. You always have to do that. It's a, well, you need to look at the situation and in that contextual moment, make the decision that you think is right. And that's where we'll maybe go back after the fact and work with more of it in the training situation. We'll put them in different scenarios where they can make the decision on their own. Because ultimately, if we're geisticing, if we're geisticing too much, the decision-making process is taken out of it for the player and I think it's key for them to have to learn how to do that. And the men don't always get it right, but we don't always get it right either. I think that's part of the game and mistakes are gonna happen. And it's learning and evolving and refining that decision-making process. - It was actually one of my last questions, but I think it rolls into this nicely. And I'm sure you get it a lot where you see and you visit, then you've been around in clubs over here. When you see people trying to kind of lift the Barcelona, I don't know if even a methodology is a little bit too, maybe just lift the style of playing product there and coach positional play, where do you see the most common mistakes in positional play coaching? - Yeah, I think it's one where I think you can, anybody can copy the exercise, right? You know, use the stereotypical, you know, four of you, four plus three, right? That everybody sees a lot. We do that a lot for our warmups. I think the people need to understand the why are you doing it. You know, what's the purpose? Because we always say, well, an exercise can be the same exercise, but based on the constraints or the rules that you implement and it can work on something very different. You know, you might be working on the, specifically the six and then, I don't know, when I say the six, ironically, when we say positional play, we actually don't have the same positions, but if you use the player in the middle, you know, you might be working on them, being able to turn under pressure or you might put them under a touch restriction or you might put them under, or you might put the outside players on a limitation that, you know, the dick takes that. But you've always got to, I think, understand the why are you doing it as opposed to, well, I've seen this exercise being done and now I'm going to do that in my training session. Well, what is the purpose? What are you trying to get out of it? You know, we have the, you know, the different topics and the different themes that we'll focus in on that always doesn't maybe line up to, you know, to maybe different styles or play a different methodology, but you could still use that same exercise to bring out that theme or topic within your sense. So I think there always has to be the question of, well, why are we doing it? What's the purpose and what are we trying to get out of it? - I'm going to sign up on this podcast, but I've just always respected the way they've been about, just from my perspective, they've been about obviously success and winning, but also development and that's been a key aspect of, I think we sometimes trade one or we think we trade one off for the other over here. We think we have to go with success, one at all costs, or we have to just develop and forget about success. Barcelona seems to have built the boat. In your perspective of leadership role at that, I guess, how it aired, do you balance that? - Yeah, really good questioning, and because I think, well, like everybody, we always see, and we want to win. You know, we're just as competitive as the next club, but it's not our priority win at all costs. I think, you know, when we had the, you know, the partnership coming with Barcelona, it was very much, they pride themselves on, you know, the brand, they want us, you know, they want people to watch our teams play and say, well, that's Barca Resency Academy, that's that team, and they will say the winning is a consequence of how we play, you know, and the development piece will come behind that. Now, that being said, obviously, like you said, it's very easy if you're losing every game, but I will focus on the development piece. You know, we've been successful in the last couple of years in finding a little bit of balance in both, but you know, we haven't always got it 100% right. I think I'll look back to, you know, game early in my career here when, you know, we've made a playoff game and we went a goal down. And I think I in that moment as a coach, you know, adjusted how we played, we were going, you know, maybe a little bit more direct and, you know, a little bit more long bullish and just hitting hope, sort of setting his desperation almost. And I'll always remember when Dennis Silva came in, Dennis Silva was our first technical director, and he talked about a time when he was caught in the lemme see under 14 boys team in an event. And he said he was playing the team that they'd lost against, you know, they were a little bit outmatched physically. So he'd adjusted the way that he wanted to play it to be. We were going to sit in a bit of a low block. We're going to keep it compact and we're going to, you know, try and transition against them. And he said, half time, it's zero, zero. And he said, as a coach, I'm feeling really good because we've kept the game as it is. And he said, he's direct, I came and sort of said to me, you know, Dennis, what are you doing? You know, this is not us. And, you know, it's just play how we want to play and play with freedom, you know. So don't feel pressure for the result. And it's the second half we went out. We lost the game one, zero. Played more the way we want to play. So the director comes after him and says, yeah, much better. So even though they lose the game, it's, you know, and that was a team, I think that he had Ansu Fatty on that team. And, you know, so it's easy to look, you know, I think we always want to look at the long-term vision of players and, you know, do we want to win? Of course we do, you know. But, you know, we look at it as, you know, are we developing players? Are we preparing them for the next level? You know, I mean, we had a team two years ago that, you know, got knocked out in playoffs by FC Dallas on penalties. But we were so proud of how they played in that game. And, you know, we had four of those guys saying professional deals. Sometimes you do view it, that you're doing the right thing as a coach, and the other team are not doing it right. Yeah, and just touch on that guy. We're one of the things I say to our coaches now, because, you know, again, we can all get caught up in the moments of games. And sometimes we view, are we being successful as a coach on? And are we winning or losing? And I'll try and preface it with the guys at the least. You could do everything wrong as the coach and win the game. I said, and on the flip side, you could do everything right as the coach and lose the game. You know, so I said, don't judge your success on the result of the end. Judge it on, you know, other boys doing what you, what you're asking them to do. Are they trying to play? Are they playing with freedom? Are they playing with bravery? And are they ultimately trying to implement what we're asking them to do? You know, men are always, you know, result in that win that you want, you know, but we will always in the long term, it's going to be beneficial. The piece of the final third play, this is like my favorite question I want to ask you is because, again, it's something that it made viral a few years ago when we mentioned the arbitrary, you know, part of clip is like, and I think this impacted coaches, we game models a lot where, hey, listen, I'll get you to the final third and then it's up to you to do whatever. And sometimes I think, well, if you're working with Henry and Messi and he asked that, yeah, that could be an option, but I struggle to find that Pav Guardiola's coaching that type of football. And I wanted to get your, I know you can't share the whole game models, but are there principles in the final third? Or can you share a little bit of insight on that there? - Yeah, it's one way, I will preface this with, you know, we do sometimes struggle in those areas. It's probably the area of the field because like you say, you don't always have the message of the, you know, the honorees that can, you know, maybe isolate somebody and always consistently beat them in a one, be one. But we always say to the players in those moments, you know, that is the area of the field where you have maybe, you know, the creativity to, you know, to use your flair, to use your skill. But we also within the same moment, we'll say it's important to have the structure. And I know you, I think you did a talk with Ivan Militar who was one of our coaches a couple of years ago. And he did a really good article on what he labeled like the wave attacks, you know, and we labeled it almost as like phase spaces and managing the space around the ball. So how do you create advantages? And that can be, you know, numerical, positional, qualitative, you know, you're just simply better than someone we would, you know, use the example of messy. You'd almost put messy in a 2v1 against him and you'd trust that he could do something. But how do you create that advantage? You know, is there a social effective advantage? That you can create as well, you know, the messy, Jordi Albert effect, you know, that they just know how each other play. And, but we'll always say in that final third. And I'll maybe paint the picture of a scenario we see a lot within our teams as well. Teams on maybe play transitional against us because they'll know that we're going to consistently try and build. And there was a game last year where we were, you know, went one nail down against the team. They scored against the run a play a little bit in transition. And they then just sat in a little block and they said, okay, try and break us down. You know, and they went two banks of five. And, you know, we were struggling a little bit to break them down. There was just, there was no space, there was no numbers. And, you know, we would always try and have that structure for the wave. And actually, if we lose it when it's positioned, when it's back and it's just, it becomes a relentless, you know, wave of attacks, as you would say. But even sometimes there, it's how do you create that advantage of a team is sitting in and all of a sudden we've locked and the team was sitting so much in a deep block that our goalkeeper had come up to the halfway line. He was almost acting as an extra center back for us in that moment. It now meant we could have an extra body higher up the field and it meant we could maybe find a numerical advantage because it was essentially then an 11 versus 10 of field players. And the risk reward of that is that, yes, maybe if you lose it, you know, you're going to be vulnerable to another transition. But the trust of our players was, well, you know, we've got an 11v10, so why should we lose the ball? You know, we've got enough players in it. It was interesting even seeing the reaction of the other court because he's frantically, you know, maneuvering his players and having them, you know, shift and slide and press to the ball and close the spaces and all of a sudden he turns around and they've got another one, you know, because now that, and that's just one slightly unique example, but in the final third, you know, it's allowing them to play with a bit of creativity, allowing them to be brave, but making sure that we have structure around the ball that if it doesn't work, we can recover the ball as quickly as possible and we can win the ball back and maybe have another goal and have another goal and sometimes it's ball movement, sometimes it's, you know, recognizing where the free man is, sometimes it's movement's off the ball, but it's always dictated by, like I said before, teammates, you know, where the opposition are, what's the score, how are we opening teams up? But it is an area that, you know, can be a challenge if we go or go down and the team sets in, how do we solve that problem? - Hello, coaches, we're taking a quick break here. If you're enjoying this center view and you enjoy the modern soccer coach content on this YouTube channel, please, please, please, could you do us two quick favors? Number one, can you please like and please make sure you're subscribing. It helps the podcast grow, helps us get the word out and helps us support all the other work we're doing. Second point is around that other work we're doing. We're looking at updating the modern soccer coach website two, three times a week with new content, new information. Please head on over there, please check it out. The majority of the work we do is free, modernsuckercoach.com/ladest, but if you want more in-depth stuff and get involved in the analysis course, that's the next tier of tactical information on modern soccer coach. Please check that out at modernsuckercoach.com/analysis. We've got our online course. We've also webinars on that platform. Really appreciate it. Thank you so much. Back to Jed. - It brings us along nicely to another challenge, almost a victim of success. I think for Barcelona, it could be that they've produced so many world-class players, but there's such a wide variety of, for every Messi, you then have Puyall, or you have a Busquets, who's six foot, whatever, and not the quickest. So they've taken different roles in different positions, et cetera, et cetera. But the one thing I've never seen is like a big knockdown center forward. So when you're looking at positional profiles, is there something that is just not to say what does a Barca player look like? Is there something that's just not on the table at all? Like a six foot five center forward who's going to knock the ball down and lean in to people? That might be a stupid question. - No, it's a really good question, Gary, because I think one of the misconceptions is often that everything is short, everything is playing the five, 10-year pass, and that's often the case, but one of the first things Denis Silva told us when we came in is look far first. If a team is high-pressing and you can skip that press and go into your number nine, do that. And then we go and support the number nine from there, and so it definitely isn't one where we would rule out that maybe it doesn't fit the stereotypical player, because we always, I'm going to say we laugh about it, but whenever we have ID camp, so we have tryout events and players come in, everybody lists themselves as a six and eight or a 10. Everybody's a center midfield player, and you're putting them maybe outside and maybe it's a number nine, and a lot of them have the tendency then to drop in and want to get the ball underneath the lines. I do think it's one where it's probably the hardest position for us to find, but within our system a profiler can suit. I think probably the last one that really did it very well was Matthew Hoppe. He was here the first couple of years, and I run, but he came to us as a midfielder, and he played for Sean McArthur, he's team, I know you've spun us, Sean Welles, and Sean sort of converted them into a number nine, and he was fantastic. His movement was second to none in regards to playing off the shoulder, but still had that ability to come underneath and be comfortable receiving it under pressure, but also would play off the shoulder, and also had a knack of just being in the right place at the right time, and scoring the scruffy goals, and even having a game where didn't necessarily do much in the game, but would then, all of a sudden pop up and score two goals, steal the headlines from some of the other guys, and just had that almost old school number nine mentality of just being a hard work and goal scorer that would press and do the dirty work, along with being comfortable in possession and playing under a bit of pressure. - You mentioned there about that, the hardest position to find is that nine, and off, I had a pound or dollar for every time, I'm talking to coaches over here. The youth level schoolkeepers are a nine, but the nine's always there. People seem to struggle, and if you look at national teams on the man side, you don't really have that consistently over the last 10, 15, maybe since maybe McBride, Donovan. What's your thoughts on that in the landscape in general? - Yeah, it's an interesting one, 'cause I think the way that players are maybe being developed, I think the games evolved a lot recently in the US. I mean, it's always changing, and I think that with the way we train the guys, I think maybe there's more groups doing more of this, maybe style of training, and maybe one of the criticisms could be that it maybe doesn't lend itself to that side of it. There maybe isn't enough in the regular training sessions for them to be playing in the space and behind, or being that dynamic number nine, but I think that's where for us, we try and use the functional training a little bit more with that, maybe it's offsetting it a little bit with that, but I do think you have, again, I think it swings in roundabouts with the generations, and maybe we'll start to see what's happening now, maybe that in five to 10 years, there's more of those players that come through just by as more sort of what we're doing in the training sessions across the country, but the landscape has changed so much that I think it is an interesting dynamic scene, how the different profiles of players are emerging, and I think the US has that stereotype of maybe more of the big strong fast athletic, but I think there's also now a lot of small technical, good central midfielders coming through, and I think they want to make sure that they have a well-rounded development model, right? You know, are you developing good players in every position, you know, and part of our role in the youth landscape is ensuring we're helping to do that. - We've seen a rise in US players in the import part of the game now, where we're more going to Europe, and I've seen a few myself where you've seen players go now at 16, 17 on fairly, fairly big money deals, and the whispers around the football world are that, you know, US kids are fairly, you know, always with a good attitude, good work ethic, you know, strong commitment to the game. What's your thoughts on that there on, on, I guess, a progression maybe in our culture over here that we are now producing, not world-class players, but definitely players that can go to academies around the world? - Yeah, I think, I mean, I think there's such a hotbed of talent now, Gary. I think, you know, I've been in the US 19 years, and I think the development and just the exposure that the boys have to the game now, you know, and I think it's, you know, the US is always going to have its challenges in, you know, the demographics and the size of the country that can sometimes cause problems, but there is so much more talent here, and I think, you know, you've seen even, you know, we had one of our alumni, you know, Julian or Alho, that, you know, was with us the first, you know, 18 months that, you know, actually went to Barcelona, and that was part of our partnership, is every year we send guys over there, and he went as a 16-year-old to Barcelona, and they were like, where does this kid come from? You know, they said, if he was, he said, if he was Spanish, we'd sign them right now, you know, and obviously with the few jurisdictions, it, you know, put some roadblocks in there, but they, you know, ultimately, then he comes back, and he signed with LA Galaxy 'cause he's 16, and he's at that level, you know, so he's there. But he full circle then signs, you know, for Barcelona four years later, and then just gets sold to Bournemouth, just made his debut in the Premier League this past weekend, you know, so he was a kid that, you know, seven years ago was in the residency program here, and he actually was really, you know, really cool. He did a Zoom call with our boys as part of our preseason here, and, you know, spoke about, you know, what, you know, what his mentality was, and what he wanted to do, and how he wanted to get there, and how the software for him was his out, you know, that was his out to get into a different life, and it was funny 'cause, you know, he's, you know, I was in room three or eight, so, you know, the boys in room three or eight now are, you know, now, this is, I mean, who the Andrew Room, you know, so they're all trying to follow the same path, but I think, you know, going back to your question, there's so much more talent, you know, coming through the US, and I think that the, you know, the European clubs are recognizing that, and I think the US have done a good job of, you know, ingrained in the culture and great, you know, that the game has grown so much, and I think with the world coming up in a couple of years, I think it's only going to explode again, you know, and evolve again, and I think we're at a really exciting time to be involved in the game in the US, because, you know, where it's at now, I think it's just done a good trajectory, which, for me, is going to be exponential potential. - Yeah, this is a great topic, great topic. The mentality piece that you talked about there, and I kind of want to stay on that there, where the player that does go over and make it, that now, even your website, and I noticed that when I've done it this morning, there's a little subtle, but really obvious, every graduate has earned a college scholarship or signed a professional contract, very clear about football goals and personal objectives. I guess, how do you instill that there in a micro culture, micro environment, where you're trying, again, it's a difficult thing to teach today, which is mentality, mindset, how do you go about it? - Yeah, it's one way for us, obviously, we know that the boys coming into this environment, they're sacrificing a lot, you know, they're moving away from the family, away from the friends to come, you know, live in the middle of a desert, you know? And we know that with that, every single one of them, you know, we ask it, you know, who wants to be a pro, sort of play? Every single one is, you know, hands up. Sometimes the coach is putting their hands up as well at the back when that question's asked, but, you know, it's one way we know that realistically, you know, there's only going to be a small percentage that go professional. I think in, you know, we've been going seven years now, we've got, I think it's 29 of our alumni now that have signed professional contracts, which is a lot, but it's also not a lot, you know, in the grand scheme of things of the guys that come through, you know, majority still go the college pathway in, and we'll always emphasize with those guys, you know, the college pathway is still a fantastic next step in stone, and it isn't the end, you know? There's that can still be a pathway into the professional game, and I think, you know, the landscape is changing on that front as well, with, you know, maybe more and more options for players to sign professional contracts, then maybe there was 10, 15 years ago, but now the challenge is weighing up, well, is that professional contract worth giving up the, you know, the, it might be professional, but, you know, what level of professional, and, you know, would you be better off taking that full-ride scholarship that you maybe have to wake Forest University, you know, and that's a decision, you know, we always advise our families on, but ultimately it's the family and the players' decision, but, you know, coming in with the mentality piece, I think, to survive in our environment, you really have to love it. You know, if you don't love it, there's so much adversity that kicks in here naturally, that if you don't love it, you, you know, you'll succumb to it, you know, you'll succumb to that adversity, but we think that that adversity really helps shape and mould and develop the players, and the rewarding thing for us as staff is, is seeing the guys come in as young boys sometimes, and have them go through the different stages, and develop not only, you know, on the field, but off it as well. I mean, we have a fantastic staff. I always, you know, put it out there. It's a team effort when we first started the project seven years ago, and Sean McCaffrey was the director. I think we started with four or five of us, and we were doing everything, you know, the laundry, the, you know, as we build this. I think now we have 36, 37 staff from coaches, trainers, resident life staff and, you know, equipment managers, all of those different things, and everybody plays the part in that culture and that mentality that we want to embed in the players is hopefully, you know, shown by example, by our staff, because we're also sacrificing a lot to be here. You know, we're here because we love it, because if we weren't, we wouldn't last, you know, because again, it's a challenging environment, but it's such a fun environment to be in as well. So anyone that comes that's going to be successful here has to have that mentality in it, and often it's the boys holding each other accountable. You know, doing it in the right way, but, you know, back at some of the players we had and I covered a session last night, where it was on point on topic, I was covering our U16s and the mentality at such a fun group, you know, they naturally have that intensity, and they're naturally, you know, holding each other accountable if they're not doing what they need to do, and understanding that what happens on the training field, what happens in the game is not personal. You know, it's, you know, it's everyone wanting to bring the best out of each other, and we've had a lot of players in the past that were, you know, like Diego Luna and, you know, Julio and Arowho, and those guys were a bit of an epitome of that. You know, they really showed that, you know, mentality that would then become a little bit infectious. You know, I think it's, you know, they're standard, they show the level, and everybody else sort of falls in line. - Yeah, it's another one of the top balance where, you know, you're playing for a big club, big brand, obviously in America, where the facilities are great, so I've never been out there, but I'm assuming that it's, you know, top notch, and I've heard really good things, but then you've also got this element, but I haven't seen Luna a lot, but what I've seen of it is like the guy plays with a little bit of an edge, there's a grip there, and you're saying there about that mentality piece. I think there's two ways of football, how we look at this, and one of them is, we need to flow the space with psychological support, but then with that, you don't necessarily get the football context, so I guess, are you with that mentality piece, are you tapping into kind of outside support as well, or is that all coming from the environment, or how do you, can you give us an insight into how that's facilitated even? - Yeah, it's, I mean, it's, so we have a full support system here within the residency, so a little bit of an insight onto the program. Obviously, you know, the boys majority live on campus at the facility, we have a high school that's at the complex as well, so they walk out of the dorm room, and they're straight in the school, we have staff that live at the facility as well, you know, so there's 24/7, care there, you know, they have access to the school counsellors, you know, they've got a, the school has an independent staff, that also is open to outside students, so they do still get that exposure, you know, there as well. The days for the boys are pretty jammed, you know, they're up, they're at school, eight until three, and then they finish at three o'clock, they come out and they, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, they're with S&C after school, and then training Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday, so we train four nights a week, strength and conditioning, you know, three nights along it, along with that, then we also have the video sessions, video analysis, Thursdays is our stable day off, that's when we, we tend to do, you know, allow the boys to be boys, so we do the, you know, we will sometimes take them to volunteer and opportunities to give back to the community, let's say our resident life staff do a tremendous job of, you know, providing them with fun excursions as well, you know, taking them to the mall, taking the cinema, just allowing them to be boys as well, but trying to create that support base for them, without babying them, you know, I think one of the benefits of our environment is that, you know, it allows them to stand on their own two feet, and sometimes they aren't ready for it, so they maybe need to, you know, that little bit of help and little bit of support, but we try and give them everything they need to be successful, you know, and if we fall short, we'll review and we'll look back at it, but, you know, on a staff and standpoint, let's say everybody's there to, you know, to help, and one of the ones we also, as our athletic training staff, who tend to have the finger on the pulse of what's going on in the academy, you know, because we sometimes will, you know, we have so much open access to the guys, but there may be a kid that's struggling on a train, and there may be an outside reason for it, you know, maybe he's, you know, having issues at home, you know, that he's now away from his family home, but there's issues going on back there, and sometimes we can get an insight from some of our support staff that'll say, you know, just keep an eye on, you know, a little Johnny, that this has happened back home. And we as the coaches wouldn't have ever have known that, but we have the insight and the communication from all of the departments, and we really try and work as a collective team to make it a success for the guys. And I think we built a really, you know, really strong staff that all buy into the culture, buy into the mentality and buy into the support that's needed to run this program. - Yeah, we spoke just before we started recording about, you know, they're going in at 13, 14, and you were saying, yeah, that's, that's, I don't even know if I would have been ready for that, and I have no problem with saying, I wasn't ready to go to North Carolina at 18, what is that? So it's about two years later, it made me a hundred times more stronger as a person, as a personality, and formed a lot of it. So like, even that transition of going away from home at that age, that would require an awful lot of support, right? - Yeah, it does, and we'll always, you know, it's where we have to be a little careful as well, because we want to make sure if we're bringing a player in that he is ready, you know, because what we don't want to do is bring them in before they're ready, and then maybe they don't stick, and then we probably lose them for good, you know, maybe, you know, maybe once they're in and then out, it's very difficult then to get them back in down the line. So we'll, you know, we'll always say, you know, we do have sometimes, sometimes families of kids that really want to be part of the program, if they are on the younger side. Sometimes with today's remote work, you know, families will relocate to Arizona, you know, to still have the kid initially be in the project. Probably a good example of a high level player with that would be Brooklyn Rains, you know, he actually joined us as a 12 year old, and randomly, you know, came out to one of our winter camp programs, and he was in my group, and he was this kid, you know, where's he coming from, and, you know, spoke to the mom, and she relocated from the Chicago area and moved into Maricopa, which is about 25 minutes away, from us, and Brooklyn was with us from 12 to 16, but the first 18 months stayed with his mom, stayed in Maricopa, and then when she knew he was ready, he then came into the residency program, but she still had his mom 25 minutes away, you know, in the Valley of Phoenix for that extra support, you know, but I looked back, like you said, Gary, I didn't leave home to come to the States last 22, and that was a big adjustment for me, so I looked at the guys coming here and doing it at 14 and 15, and I always say to myself, I have a ton of respect for you, because I'm not sure if I could have done it, you know, but they are making that sacrifice, and we try and provide them with, you know, the help and support, and we always, you know, we had the orientation a couple of weeks ago, and one of our things to the boys is like, you know, every single one of you here is gonna go through some adversity. Push through that, don't shy away from it, because that's what will help shape you, you know, be comfortable being uncomfortable, because, you know, that will help mold you, and that will help develop you, and I know when we speak to a lot of the college programs and the college coaches, they'll always, you know, have we loved recruiting guys from, from Basra Academy, because we know, we're maybe not gonna face the challenges of the homesickness of, you know, that adjustment period of being away from home, they've already done that, you know, they've already learned how to do their own laundry, they've already, you know, learned how to stand on their own two feet a little bit, so they start college some of them three or four years earlier than maybe the whatever, at least the college environment a little bit earlier, so it can be really good springboard for the boys. - It's an extremely high bar, especially when you've got that barge, which, and even when I look at that barge, that kind of gets me to click back in a bit, oh, no, this isn't the, you know, so whenever you're looking at evaluating those players and seeing, being honest about where they're at in the process, I mean, I guess with the element of transition of a 13, 14-year-old and deciding whether they're right or not, there's obviously gonna be an embedding process, and how often are you evaluating, and what does that look like, and that process? - Yeah, I mean, it's one where we would say the boys are always being evaluated. We are almost your sit at the guy. Every time you step on the field, you're being evaluated, you're being observed. You know, that's not by just your coach, but we have our scouting department, we have our technical directors, the bosser, technical directors that are here. They don't, you know, at the minute, they don't take teams. This is my first year. Actually, I'm doing a slight adjustment. I'm not gonna coach a team this year, just so that I can have a little bit of a, you know, overhaul of all of the teams. But, you know, on the formal evaluations, you know, we do, you know, I think inevitably feedback is important, you know, and sometimes that form of feedback is needed. So we do a mid-season review that normally takes place in December, but throughout the year, they're getting consistent feedback. You know, the beauty of the residency program again is that we have open access to the guys. So as soon as the guys finish school, and they only go to school four days a week, so they go to school Monday through Thursday, so Friday is an off day for them. So we can schedule meetings with the guys, maybe a little bit more openly and readily than a regular program, and when I say regular program, I mean, you know, parents drop them off a training, take them home, you know, when do you find time for those, you know, meetings if it's not done virtually. So our office door is, we always say it's open door policy, we do a lot of film review, a lot of, you know, whether that's individual video, you know, small group work, you know, maybe it's a unit, the back line or the midfield three, or maybe it's the whole team, you know, maybe it's just principles of play that we want to reinforce, but we also encourage the boys a little bit to, you know, take ownership. You know, if you have questions or you have, you know, comments or you need advice or you want to bring out certain moments, you know, again, it comes back to that, it depends question, you know, they'll ask us a question and we'll say, well, it depends, can you, you know, show me the moment, you know, find the moment in the game, bring it to me, and we'll talk through that context, you know, just maybe could have done differently or, you know, what was it something that, you know, you could have done different, was it a teammate, was it a collective group, you know, how do we address that, how do we fix that, or how do we at least paint the picture for the player that they have now a clear understanding of what we're looking for from them? - Another element, alongside development is the co-development piece. And obviously, you know, you mentioned... - Shawn McCaffordy and Ivan as well. - And, you know, the element of coaches going there and having to come around, this is first up a bit stronger. So I guess one of the values there that now when you're overseeing and maybe you're taking a step back and you're going out and watching training sessions or even in a game day, what are some of the traits that a bars a residence academy coach has to have? - Yeah, it's one of the core value acronyms that we use here at the academy is heart. And that's for the staff, the players, everybody. And it's essentially the heart is humility, effort, ambition, respect. And then teamwork, team play is what they say, you know, they used to be teamwork, they switched it to team player 'cause they were like, we're playing here, we're not working, we're having fun. You know, so we look for the coaches to try and follow a similar, you know, value structure. And I do think that this environment is a really good one for coaches to come in and see something a little bit different, learn and develop and implement. Maybe something that's unique. And we've had a lot of coaches that have come in and moved on to do really good things. You know, I know when I first came here seven years ago and again, I think in the first three months working alongside Dennis Silver, I think I learned more in those first three months than I had the previous 10 as a coach. You know, I was just, you know, my mind was blown and Dennis like actually left us after three months to go back to La Masea to coach the under 18 team there and still speak to Dennis now and again now. But you know, when it comes to the more of the domestic coaches what we're looking for, it's, you know, are they going to come in and be open to new ideas? You know, we certainly want to provide them with the support to, you know, to grow and develop. So again, we have, you know, the office, I'm sat in my office here, but we, you know, we have the office for the coaches to be. So it's very, we squeeze everybody into the one office. We at one point, we were, we were in two separate offices and we wanted to condense it. We wanted to have that collaboration and an openness of new ideas and questions and, you know, our barter technical directors will do methodology meetings on a regular basis. So when it comes to the, the coaches we bring in, we know that we're probably not going to have someone who's going to come and be with us for 10, 15 years. You know, it's going to be someone like, Ivan Militar, who came in for a couple of years and two or three years and really embraced it, really, you know, jumped in with two feet and grew, developed and then moved on to, you know, hopefully something better, something bigger and better. We've got a lot of guys that, you know, Chris Harmon's another one that came in, fantastic coach. He followed Sean McAfee to, to New York Rebels and is now the assistant coach at Austin City's second team. You know, we've got a guy that's now with Orlando City Eddie Wilding, another top coach that, you know, was here with us for three years. And it's really rewarding for us when we see them come in and learn and develop and we always want them to believe and saying, I really enjoyed that. I really, you know, it's almost a bit of a sweet for them. They know they need to move on to, you know, to take that next step in the career, but that we want them to come in and really have embraced the opportunity that they have. Because for me, you know, I am maybe a little bit biased here, but I think any coach coming in, if they're willing to learn and willing to be open, this place can be, you know, just an open book of knowledge that you can, you know, grow, develop and then take on throughout your career. I find that so refreshing and kind of inspirational because that's what coaching should be. That's what it should be, almost a think tank. And Sean's pathway fastness may still even a few years after Chattanooga because I think to go from Barcelona to a Red Bull model, you need to be open-minded, then you need to be flexible and adaptable to do that, right? - Absolutely, I mean, it's too probably polar opposite, you know, maybe at least I'm from the outside looking in philosophies, but I think what, you know, I obviously, you know, Sean was almost a mentor of mine, right? You know, I worked with Sean previously in Philadelphia and, you know, followed Sean here. And that was ultimately, you know, came originally as a coach and was fortunate enough when Sean moved to Red Bull to be elevated in. But what Sean's strength for me was how good he was on the field, you know, and embracing it when he was here. And I think when he went to Red Bull, I was like, well, how are you going to manage that? And I think he's enjoyed that challenge, you know, of, you know, how do I maybe find the blend of the two where, you know, you can maybe still be, you know, comfortable and good with the ball, but we really have that intensity and press. And I know Sean used to talk about, well, we still do the non-negotiables that come into it. You know, the non-negotiables are your principles that whether it's our style or a Red Bull style, it's, you know, what are you going to stand by and what are you, you know, what are you going to find value? And I always say, I love the methodology that we have, but, you know, I also know that there's more than one way to play the game. And this is how we want to play it here, but there's more than one way to play the game. I think that's the beauty of the game. If we all try to do it, exactly the same, it would be no fun to watch, you know. And, you know, we really even see sometimes with our style of play and our train. And we sometimes struggle when we come up against the team that maybe are a little bit more direct. Because in training, we have going, yeah, well, very rarely do I have my centre back to go and win in headers, you know, because everything is maybe, you know, shorter and smaller spaces and, you know, we're focused and on that tight position, you know, positional play. And maybe we negate that longer ball. But maybe not, is that how we're going to play, but we need to prepare our players for what they might say on a weekend against an opposition. - The deeper down you go, the more fast here it becomes. Another question that I'm sure coach is going to be driving less than this. And something that I'm going to ask it because I'm, I bet you someone's going to think of, I would love to work at the Barca Resency Academy because there's no parents. - How do you manage parents? - It's a really good question. I think, you know, we understand and we'll always say when we have the ID camps and we have people come on visits whether it's a player we've scouted and recruited, whether it's a player that just by chance comes in, you know, we're very transparent in saying, you know, not only are we evaluating you as a potential player, we also understand you're evaluating us. Is this somewhere where I trust my son to be in an environment where he's developing not only on the field, but offered as well as the values lined up with what I want my son to have? So it is a really good question, Gary, because we do sometimes forget that they have the parents because they live on campus, you know? So our communication a lot is direct to the player and then three months in, we'll get an email saying it. Just checking in, we haven't heard much, you know, what's got on it? So it's something we're always trying to, you know, increase our communication, but I do think we are spoiled sometimes in, you know, and we have that open access to the player. So we can talk directly with the player. And now we do have to obviously include the parents as well. You know, the parents are a big piece of the puzzle because we'll always say, you know, we're there and this is one of the, I think I told him a wife that works as the director of resident life here. So she, she'll always say, you know, we're here as a supplement to the parents. We're not here to replace you. We're here to support you. And this needs to be a team effort. And we have to all be on the same page. And it's the same, I think we still face the same challenges every quarter across the country faces, Gary, you know, that everybody wants more play and time. Everybody, you know, wants to be the one that gets the opportunities to move up through the age groups. And so we're navigating to that. But I think for us, the, we're like, yeah, we would say in every club, you have to be transparent. You have to be honest. You have to, you know, give them the feedback of where they're at, where you see them. And don't make false promises. You know, don't tell someone something that you don't believe. You know, so if they're mid to lower button roster, you know, you can be transparent with that. And you could tell me, this is what we want to do to work with them, to improve them. And we see the potential. We wouldn't have brought them in otherwise. But this is where he's at right now. This is the plan we're going to have to get them there. So the communication is still crucial. But, you know, we don't see them on a day-to-day. Some of our coaches do love the fact that when they're having a training session, sometimes it's an empty field or it's an empty sideline. You know, you can, there's nobody there watching. And it's nice. - The last kind of leg of this interview is just to kind of go back to the tactical teaching of it and methodology of, all right. So the piece of taking a culture which the Barca culture is, I mean, so rich and so powerful. But then it's also embedded in a Spanish culture. And this is something we had better not mascara recently. And he was saying about, I thought it was really, I never thought it was before about the sport and the way in America. You try and score as quick as you can. And it's one action. So sometimes we like to think that we're creating our own culture, but we're really impacted by the global culture that we're in. And I've definitely felt that myself from looking at, you know, even in the college space. It's like the games, you know, you're hoping you'd love to play a tactical game, but the subs and the horns go in every 10 seconds and there's no flow. I guess when you're then saying at the standard that you're trying to do this at, how challenging are some of the culture pieces in our landscape over here? How do you overcome that? Yeah, it's an interesting one because I think, you know, the US is different to Spain, obviously, and different, you know, I obviously grew up in the north east of England. So it's, you know, I've maybe referenced my background growing up, you know, I grew up in the streets of the north east of England where, you know, I was in a structured academy, but I did just as much with my local neighborhood kids, you know, on the streets that you'd start off with a 2v2 game and before you knew it, it was 11v11 jumpers for goalposts, you know. And I think that's something that naturally, just because, you know, America's so big, you maybe lose that a little bit. That's one of the things we think is an advantage here is, you know, we have to manage the boys' workload, but sometimes, you know, I got a call last week from our security guy and he said, "Hey, you know, just to heads up five o'clock this morning, there was a bunch of guys out on the field before school doing a pick up game." And you're like, "And I love that 'cause I'm going, that's great." But at the same time, you go on my boys, we've got training tonight. So, you know, find the balance, you know. So it's an interesting one with that. But I think going back to the cultural piece as well, I think when you chat with Bernard, you talked a little bit about the, you know, the different sports and the mentality is, you know, it's very much fast paced, high transitions, high intensity. I think the American culture is very much, they enjoy that intense environment and maybe the Barcelona system plays. Maybe a little bit more methodical and I'm not going to say slow, but one of the things that, you know, again, I coached our U16 group last night and they're full of energy. And it's like, you know, when you let them on the field, it's just, and it can sometimes become chaotic. And I think what I was saying to the guys last night is, and this is a message we use a lot, is you can still play it at an intensity and a quick tempo with composure. You know, I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. I think you can have both and I think that's the key. You know, recognizing the moments, when does it need to slow down? And then when does it need to speed up? And the decision-making process of how you dictate that, ultimately then dictate the tempo of the game. You know, we want to dictate the tempo of the ball. We want to have the ball. And sometimes, you know, that's a question when we often get as well. You know, do you guys, a lot of teams, when they win it, first pass is always forward. You know, and we'll say, well, yeah, we don't necessarily want to not play the first pass forward. We want to make sure we secure the ball, but we want to make sure that if we do play forward first, that there's an advantage to playing forward first. You know, what we don't want is for it to become, you know, a ping pong game of the ball going back and forth and it becomes a bit of a track meet. If it's not on to go forward, then we'll dictate the tempo. We'll maybe play a negative pass. We'll regain our shape and we'll then hopefully control the tempo. And that's where it comes into, you know, you talk about the college game, the constant subs. You know, the beauty of the youth game right now is it is still a little bit rigid because we'll say, especially living here in the middle of Arizona where it can sometimes be 110 degrees, it's no fun to not have the ball. If you're chasing and, you know, you're in our environment, you know, as the game goes on, we often see that, you know, sometimes a game might be a tight game or a 1-0 game or a 0-0 game. And as we go on and we go on and our team's being chasing the whole game, sometimes that then opens up in the last 20 minutes. I think that sometimes is something that's lost in maybe the college game, maybe the stereotypical college game of being fast paced. And I do think that the college game has evolved a lot. I don't want to knock the college game because there's a massive value in it. But I do think the substitution rules maybe make it more enabling to not wear a team down because you can just every 10, 15 minutes be refreshing the energy, refreshing the legs. And, you know, I think on the youth side, we'll sometimes see that if we can dictate the tempo and manage it, we can wear teams down and exploit the spaces as they open up later in the game. - Yeah, I was actually, I've interviewed yesterday with David Tinney at Austin, MLS, about practical prioritization and about the teachings through that and how something, an element doesn't have to be fast-moving to be intense and equally can be fast-moving to not be intense. And sometimes when I look at, again, not to knock it, but sometimes I look at college and I think there's a lot going on, but the intensity isn't in terms of a tactical focus or even a technical focus of, it's kind of loose, but you can then have a slower new, like the Barcelona game was on. Now, granted, it was played in a really high pace as well. If you look at some other football has been played today and even it doesn't look on camera, high pace, but the tension and the intensity is just at a scale that I've never seen football play before. - Yeah, I would agree with that guy. It's something we always say to our players is the difference between being a good player, a great player or a world-class player is being able to play under composure at the different intensities because put me on the field as a 41-year-old guy with no pressure and I can probably pay a 10, 15, no intensity, I can play at the past. Can you make those decisions under the pressure and under the intensity that really comes as you go up those different tiers and different levels? And I think that's the differentiator. There's a lot of good players that maybe don't make it because they kind of handle that intensity or that difference between the levels. - Last couple for you. Your own personal development as a leader in this space and obviously with connected to Barca, but then there's how many males? How do you kind of stay in tune with what they do and kind of lean into that there for personal development as well? - Yeah, it's one way we're spoiled a little bit, Gary, because obviously we do have the two technical directors who are from Barcelona, they come and work with us. So they're here based in Arizona with us in the office every day. So we get open access to them. I've been fortunate enough to be over to Lemaseer on a visit three or four times now. Would it probably be more if COVID hadn't shut us down for a couple years, but it's been really really fun for me to go and be exposed to that. And it's actually what I found probably more rewarding is going there and seeing, you see from the undernines to the under-19s, they're doing the same exercises, the same drills and there's obviously managing that, the different loads there with the different groups. But it's really fun to see that what they're doing there lines up with what we're doing here. We're constantly sharing game film and highlights of our top prospects. Our top prospects are the guys in Spain want to know who they are because they know that America has become a big talent pool there. They've seen the likes of Diego Luna and Bryce Duke and Julian Arowho and Kate and Clark Matthew Hoppe. These guys that have all come through our environment that have ended up in pretty high levels of the professional game and they see that there's talent here and they want to tap into it and, you know, obviously sometimes it's giving them that exposure over there and that can whether it's be through the video or through the trips that we have each year. But we want to try and get it to where all of our coaches get maybe the chance to go over there as well, you know, and have them that little rotation without leaving us understaffed here in Arizona. It's getting that exposure and getting involved and really embracing it as well, because we really do want to mirror what they're doing in Barcelona, we want to mirror it here, understanding that you're working with different cultures. You know, how can we make it as good as it can be here in the U.S. to replicate what they're doing there in Spain? - How does that under nine session look in terms of coach behavior? Are they, you know, is it methodical? Is it like a surgeon or is it they're on top of it? - I would say that the less at them, I think it's more, you know, the repetition of the exercise, is the repetition of the drills and then picking the moments of when to talk to them. And because we all know what it's like to coach nine year olds and almost to be a nine year old, you know, you just want to play, you want to get the ball at your feet and you want to move the ball and you want to be involved and you want it to be competitive. So one of the things that, you know, we do here that we've seen them do, they obviously, we don't only start at U-15, but, you know, I went over and saw the undernines there. The competitive intensity that they have in that natural hunger is awesome to see. And, you know, they just help facilitate that, you know, we always say the coaches are just facilitating the development of the player, but I would say it's less of the stop/start. It's more of the incision of picking the right moment of get in, get out and then, you know, maybe it's pulling someone to the side to talk to them individually, but a little bit less of the, you know, three four minute coaching points that you maybe sometimes see in some environments. - Last one again, very general one, but, you know, I think it's prominent over here where, again, the bar some methodology is a victim of its own success in a way where everyone there wants to do it at certain levels, but let's just say there's a coach that's legitimately wanting to commit to do things better, not necessarily to copy and replicate, but like, no, I just, I'm looking for a north star and I want to follow up and I want to commit a more possession game and do things the right way. But I'm in the middle of nowhere in my own context and I just need to know what not to chase and what to focus on. What would you say would be a good start and point to do that? - Yeah, I think it always comes back to asking the question of the why are you doing something, you know, what's your why in how you manage something? So if it's, you know, this is what we think of struggling with, start with the why and work backwards, you know, and that's always my advice to people and sort of what we tell the coaches here, well, what are you trying to get out of it and then, you know, take a step back and ultimately, you know, we're fortunate here that we have a lot of high level players, but we understand sometimes that, you know, maybe you're not working, if you're working more at the grassroots level, you know, you could still, I think, run the same exercise with, you know, maybe you just adjust the constraints or you adjust the size and, you know, you want them to have success, you want them to, you know, to feel like they're doing things well. So, you know, we'll sometimes, even in our exercises, we'll maybe use habit and it's a bit too small. So we'll open it up because what we found is, and sometimes it's, and I'll preface this with, when we're doing a possession, you know, run, we'll do a simple round or a 4v2, you know, and we'll maybe make the space what it is and we'll find that it's too easy for the possession team and it's always that, you know, the recovery player, it's two spaces, too big. And we have, and we've got to be careful sometimes not to fall in the trap, okay, we'll make it smaller now. And yes, we've made it more difficult for the possession team, but we've now made it easier for the recovery team. So, you know, so sometimes we go, well, are you just being lazy now, you just don't want to run, you know, is that the recovery was just not good enough, you know, and I think that's a balance and act as well. That comes back to what, what's the why? You know, if we want the team to have success and feel, you know, like we're maintaining possession and we're doing, and maybe we'll make the space a little bit bigger and we'll have the recovery players, you know, work. But if we want, oh, sorry, we want them to be, or vice versa, you know what I'm trying to say again. You know, we're almost trying to find that scenario but what's the purpose of the exercise and how do we manipulate the exercise and putting constraints or size restrictions or whatever that might be to bring out that theme. And that would be my advice to any coach out there is, you know, what's your way? Work backwards and adjust from there because the exercises are the exercises, you know, and anybody can do a four before plus three. Anybody can do a five, a 77 plus three. Anybody can do that exercise, but what are you trying to get out of it? What's the purpose of you doing that exercise? Is it just, 'cause this is what, you know, bar some methodology tells you to do, there needs to be a purpose of the process and the training that you would go through. - Hey, Stan, what a great way to finish. Yeah, thank you so much. This has been amazing. And I can't thank you enough for being so open to share, you know, life inside and the methodology and the environment as well has been fantastic. I've loved this. - You know, awesome guy. Great catching up and thanks for having me on. (upbeat music) ♪ Go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go ♪ (roaring)