Ron Paul Liberty Report
Will Trump And Kamala Come Out Swinging? With Guest Jim Jatras
Hello everybody, and thank you for tuning into the Liberty Report with us today. We have Daniel McAdams our co-host Daniel Good to see you this morning. Good morning, Dr. Paul. How are you this morning? I'm doing well, and we're lucky today Yes, we have somebody that's gonna give us a lecture on good foreign policy We're delighted to have Jim Jattress here today a friend of ours We even knew him back when we were doing duty to one Washington DC It's great to have you here and You've helped us a lot on a real pet project of Daniels You know talking to young people when we have our annual conference, and you didn't come once or twice You've come a good many times And you do a great job, and you have a good reputation You've come out with a book on a summary now, you know I kid about myself, but I'm serious some people write books and some people do I what I do we just taught down things And and pretend to give a speech, but he has a has a book out And we'll be talking about that and a little bit, but it's about a your history Jim And I just want to introduce you to the audience and just Say welcome to our program. It's great to see you today Well dr. Paul it's an honor to be down here with you and Daniel I mean as you pointed out we've done each other for a long time when I was working at the Republican leadership in the Senate and you were still in Congress and you know among the few friendly ears anywhere around the place on things Like war and peace especially all the nonsense that was going on with the Balkans and the Middle East I mean you could count on one hand who people were that you could rely on you didn't even need your thumb So it's a pleasure to be with you and and also Talking to the young people at the wrong Paul Institute at the conference I mean we all just saw each other a week ago up at the Dallas airport and I don't know everyone come I talk to the young people I sort of wonder am I gonna get a cup of him walk for It's very encouraging to see this kind of young people you attract to this movement to the to the Liberty platform And and some of them have gone on to do great things where they're actually you know making a difference in the world And I think it's a tribute to you dr. Ball one thing I noticed that I learned I haven't been in Washington more so when I got involved in some of the national campaigns and go into the college campuses And you've had a lot of experience more than a couple years several years. We won't tell them how long you've really been doing this But I changed my attitude because when I first started thinking about this I was pretty average conservative and you know welfare was just those bad people who needed food stamps And I never thought well, maybe they need food stamps because of some stupid government policy It is something that That crossed my mind in a short time after I went to Washington that the young people sometimes get a bad rap Yeah, there's a lot of clowns out there and there will always be but I've been impressed and you've did this over the year Do you think you've seen any changes? Do you think you have a little bit more optimism about what the young people are reading and the access to some of our Liberty philosophy and it was when you first started this. Yes, definitely I mean look just as in my own life I've seen evolution from when I was just a standard conservative anti-communist and all that and you saw what happened Yeah after the end of the Cold War and the way basically these new conservatives want to turn us into the new Ideological Soviet Union I think a lot of these young people are less likely to be well, frankly They're less trusting less naive of what they're being told by their betters. They have to believe and do they they're skeptical they're Firing no, that's a good thing. You know ask questions. You know question more and I think that's something they're doing. Yes, Daniel Yeah, well the program that talked about is our rompaul scholar seminar We always do that the day before and actually we have a dinner the night before Before that, you know, this is before the our annual conference and one of the great things you I think you've spoken to all four of them, haven't you? No, no, no, no, no, I was there with the first one Yeah, I've addressed them all all three of them and then this time we did the lunch time discussion with John Sharp and And Phil's are all there. Yeah But one of the things about it on Thursday night is because I'm usually my head is full of all the things we have to do So you usually kind of take over the dinner because you're interacting and talking with them What kinds of impressions have you gotten over the years of these young people? You know it really makes crowd in terms of their backgrounds where they come from but I think as we were saying earlier There's that in quite a spirit of inquiry of questioning that I think is really going to serve them well Especially as we move into very very uncertain times in this country and the world. Yeah Well, you know politically, there's always the subject we don't see our program as being a political Program and but it's sort of drifted into you know coming up and commenting on major issues a lot of our political right now There's a political event. I think it's tomorrow or something. No, don't maybe it's tonight Yeah, it's something's coming up I think some people come in together and they're gonna have this argument Yeah, but all the rules are don't say a nasty word to anybody So anyway, I'm talking about the debates that are some debates and I imagine you've given that a little bit of thought What do you think what can you think of very many good things that'll come from the debate or how do you assess this debate? well, you know Americans like to be infotained with it by these things and It's they I think when people watch it. They're not really listening so much about where do you stand on the issues? What are you gonna do with your president? But rather? It's more like has somebody made a gaff? It's been some group or something 11 of the sort did he look bad that she looked bad was he disrespectful to her You know all this kind of thing and then of course the media will then spin it any way they want say Oh, he said something dumb she lied or whatever it might be and you know It's basically like almost like a like a sports event right for a lot of people I mean as I see it this is gonna be a very different debate than when Trump debated Hillary. Mm-hmm. That was very different now That was very entertaining. Mm-hmm. That was Trump letting loose that was Trump winning over a lot of people who didn't like Hillary I mean people don't like her. She's not likable and he was able to build on that now I think this is gonna have to be a different debate So if what would you do if Kamala college? I'm just a gym. You've been around DC a lot. You were in the legislative branch You were in the executive branch. You were a lobbyist. What can I do? What can I do against this guy? This orange beast? Give me some advice. What would you tell her? I I would try to find some way to get to provoke him to say something disrespectful that had sexual or racial implications Because that is gonna offend some group of voters that she's she's going to want to need that again Look, I have to confess to you. I'm a little skeptical about the integrity of our elections anyway Yeah, so I'm not entirely sure that it's necessarily about winning votes But rather positioning and narrative for however things are going to be managed when the election day comes You know the most recent foreign policy event of major proportions that we've dealt with and you've talked about and that has has to do with Ukraine and We've been talking about it since 2014 every once in a while people say how did you start talking about that? well, I had a good advisor I read to your stuff Daniel McAdams kept me up today and It is very revealing and you know and we look at this that NATO had something to do with it starting in this thing But e eternally even today we see constantly I imagine I think even yesterday when Russia invaded Ukraine and started this war and they they never look at it objectively and Have you sensed that? I'm sure you've sensed this is happening, but Is that something that you address or you try to ignore because it's so crazy? Well, you know, of course the standard phrase is Russia's full-scale unprovoked invasion of Ukraine And of course, it was neither full-scale nor unprovoked I mean they for reasons that we all know only only too well whether we're talking about the Balkan Wars the expansion of NATO or the militarization of Ukraine the shelling of the Donbas that Russia tried in many many ways to engage with us to find a peaceful solution of this and we basically told them to get lost and They finally reluctantly did something look and you could argue that maybe they should have done something else We're not done this at all, but you know, this this is a Regional power maybe still a world power right on its own door step. You know look at look at our you know interventions in other countries We're you know Iraq is a direct national interest to the United States Libya I mean these are countries halfway across the world that are not vital to our national security in the way that Ukraine is to Russia's and Still we have an establishment of Washington. That's willing to kill basically every young man in Ukraine And maybe starting on the women too and risk a real war between NATO and Russia that could be the end of all of us And they don't seem to care and most Americans don't seem to care, right? And you know there's another issue going on right now for a policy, which is dangerous. That is of course the Middle East That's been around for a long time And I don't think there's any way we can list them say this one is a lot worse than the other one But just talk about the two together it's for me and well how we think about this This is all part of one philosophy that we're engaged in doing things. We shouldn't have it and it shouldn't surprise us but Both are dangerous, but is there any way that you sort of lean towards saying, you know, yes They're both very dangerous, but I worry more about a rather than B I think for the shorter term the possibility of a wider conflict Immigration is greater in the Middle East than as Ukraine But I think Ukraine is still the bigger the point of combustion that the prospects of a early Expansion of the conflict are greater in the Middle East and of course you could put China Taiwan further back on them and then you for something in the future But in a way, there's a very strong parallel between Zelensky in Ukraine and Netanyahu and Israel Each of them want to drag us into a war Zelensky wants to drag us into a direct war between NATO and Russia Netanyahu wants to drag us into a direct war between the United States in Iran and of course For better or worse probably worse Netanyahu has a lot more influence in Washington than Zelensky does. Zelensky star is kind of faded Whereas let's face it. I mean most of your former colleagues up there, you know The better you know who has more influence in Washington than Joe Biden does or wherever is standing behind working as my part You know one other group that I want to drag us into where Americans citizens that work for the military industrial complex Yeah, that's a big one. Yeah, absolutely and look let's let's face it You know Eisenhower's military industrial complex was was a horse and buggy compared to the formula one racer That is the deep state today because not just the traditional things the intelligence the military the the arms manufacturers It's the financial system. It's Hollywood. It's IT. It's the big pharma. You go down the list There's this huge nomenclature of power that are all pointing in that direction Daniel the one thing that's interesting is oh when you look at time because I tend to agree with you that The Middle East is possibly a more dangerous situation But when you factor in the fact that we are only a few weeks from an election an election that could go either way as you say There's some questions about the veracity of our system Let's just say no, no, we're the envy of the world when it comes to honesty of our elections because we have machines But the but the fact of the matter is the people who have done so well on project, Ukraine $200 billion none of it went to Ukraine and all went to the Beltway bandits. You know how it works You know how that system works sure sure the system of getting that money But they're looking now at the potential end of that gravy train Trump is said all Bombastically as usual. I will end it in 24 hours. I don't think that's gonna happen We talked last night when we had dinner together about the flights Kellogg plan I don't think that's gonna end it in 24 hours But nevertheless you have this sense that the endgame is coming the gravy train may run out And so that may be why you're seeing things like the curse concursion all of these sort of seemingly fake PR things Well as I say as well as he needs to find a way to escalate and get us directly into the conflict more than we are now As far as Trump look even if he does win I hope he learned something for the first time around but remember the militarization of Ukraine mostly took place under Trump Yes, not under Obama wouldn't do it. No and just like for example Would he how many times three times did he order US troops out of Syria and that didn't happen? I'm not convinced that whatever Trump's brothers are or even dances that That they would really be able to make it turn that ship around and keep the machine from from just operating The way it has been over the last few years I almost get the sense that all someone would have to say to Trump is well This is making you look weak and making America. Yeah, that's right Yeah, he's on patreon Yeah, and yeah, and that what that seems to have been it was approached to I'll just bluster and threaten people and they'll all fall on the line Well, what do they do? Yeah, I have an article here in Politico But I'd like you to make a comment on a title is opinion the forever wars were a mistake supporting Ukraine is not a network referencing JD Vance and he has gone to different positions But he's under the attack now because he looks like he might be drifting in our direction You know and now I think the that that is bigger than we I'm hoping it's bigger than we've imagined But we've encouraged it and that is that maybe there is a still a coalition out there Maybe we can split the Republican Party from the war-mongering position. So I imagine you've got a peek at that Well, you know, I think there is a what reservoir of opinion out there that wants to move in a more realistic direction on these things Look, I remember even 2016 when Trump denounced the Iraq war in front of a Primary crowd in South Carolina. Yeah, very military state people loved it Yeah, well, I mean, he wouldn't expect that to work, but it did work You know and so I think that I hope Vance is as sincere about this I hope Trump is sincere about moving in this direction Whether they can actually do it or not is a whole other story and this was this article goes It's amazing to me how you can peddle this sort of thing. Oh, there's other wars in the back There's more mistakes, but this one they're telling the truth this time You know and of course, what do we get wait for when this war is in the back and rear room era? I'll say yeah, Ukraine was a mistake, but X the current war. That's one. We really got to win trust us this time But you know, this is written by Matt Gallagher who was in the Iraq war and it does smack a little bit of desperation because he's saying Hey, you know, I went in there. I hook line in sink where I bought the whole thing I went in there looking for the weapons of mass destruction. We were duped We were lied to but by golly JD Vance. You're wrong. This is the good war We finally found a good one reminds of when Obama was elected the Iraq War is a bad war Afghanistan is a good war and it's almost out of desperation But here's a little quote from this article dr. Paul that I know if our good friend Jimmy Duncan was hitting you here He'd be perfect and our good friend Walter Jones who sadly is no longer with us So here's a mad gal who was duped into fighting the Iraq war and is now trying to pull something out He says Vance has emerged as the face of a new movement in the GOP led by veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan And I love this part that stands against more traditional conservative support for aggressive foreign policy Interventions. Yeah, is that really the traditional conservative position? Has he ever heard of Taft? When you think we're winning and we can let up a little bit. We better read that We still have a job. Yeah, I think aggressive foreign policy. What's in that in George Washington? Yeah, yeah I've always had trouble separating foreign policy and economic policy because they they've meshed and Of course the founders and many others throughout our history It said that you know the principle is that if you don't trade with people and get along with people you're more likely to fight with people and right now we Trump is pretty clear on him many of his beliefs and As you say he said something about foreign policy. We hope he sticks to it But he said something that I think he's gonna stick to it I'm not happy about it because I like free trade and free travel because I do believe that people should mingle and they're less likely to fight with each other but There was an article this morning that Trump's demanding a hot anybody messes with wealth. We're gonna put a hundred percent tears on that that That doesn't make any sense at all and that can override some of these other positions You know, this is a big issue. Yeah, and of course, you know, Washington is addicted to sanctions They love the slap sanctions on people and they seem to be Unwilling to face the fact that they don't always work and they're becoming less and less effective because we don't have the same Throw weight in the international system as we used to have when it comes to finance We're basically cutting out the legs from what had been our supremacy in the past That's that's gonna come back to haunt us here when you know, especially when the dollar is not the And of course the big the big fear I have it back to the Middle East is that Trump for whatever reason has decided he's going to become more Catholic than the Pope when it comes to Being pro-Israel in Middle East and doubling down on support for Israel and threatening Iran Now he backed away from attacking Iran a couple times when he was in office for the first time Will he deliver this time as the Neocons want? That's a big question mark. Yeah, well the funny thing about the sanctions Though and I just saw this on Twitter X earlier today So, you know, the whole big thing now is a Biden administration I mean you can't even say Biden administration the blank administration is now their big thing is Iran is providing missiles to Russia We're the only ones that are allowed to provide weapons to other countries It's a blink and made the big announcement. We are announcing a couple of new sanctions on Iran. Oh, well That'll do it Everything is everything is in there when you only have as a hammer. It seems like but I was gonna ask you one thing I don't forgive me because we haven't discussed this before but do you have any sense because it's all speculation now Any sense of how Trump's foreign policy team might be taking shape is there any names that you've been looking at that may give us some Encouragement or discouragement Do I have any sense? That's a good question Well, well you mentioned flights and Kellogg they were the ones who wrote that ridiculous peace plan a few weeks ago It's the dumbest thing I've ever read as I understand it and I could be wrong as I understand it One Victor Orban went to see Trump and Mar-a-Lago. They were somehow in that orbit I don't know if you met with him personally, but apparently They do have Trump's here. I don't know if Mike Pompeo is still around in that orbit General Flynn is but I don't know you know that I think that's actually more positive influence as far as I can tell except for China Yeah, except for China except for China. So I don't know made the you know I don't want to presume anything but the indications I've gotten is that he really hasn't learned the lesson from his first time around in office in terms of his personnel selection I hope he does somewhat better, but I'm not convinced. Yeah, you know I I got my draft notice in 1962. There were a few missiles down in Cuba and there was a war going on in Vietnam and But it still persists. I think the my attitude I know is to change definitely about Russia because It was that Mrs. The camera so you shouldn't be able to just totally ignore that but there's now they're keeping this ball rolling because we're supposed to still fear Russia and they almost paint it like it's still the Soviet Union and they have to do this and Some of their policies out that the neocons push is is the basic goal is somehow another We have to weaken Russia sanctions and and you know start a war with them so Well, they'd be successful doing this or are they going to strengthen Russia eventually? Well, they keep strengthening Russia, but you know first off 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis. We're in a much more dangerous situation today because the the Orders for one to launch or launch on warning and so far are far more hair trigger now When they were in 1962, so that's one problem the other thing You know, I think there are some people especially some older conservatives who still think oh your Russian stole the Soviet Union That's not the major problem when I was at the State Department I served on the Soviet desk my dad was the Air Force Satoshi and Moscow and back then there was a lot of not necessarily Pro-Soviet but not anti-Soviet opinion because after all they're godless. They're secular They they're progressive. They're kind of like us You know and then when that ended all the people I used to work there with whether we're not particularly anti-Soviet Became very anti-Russian because now it's a national state. It's got a kind of a Christian ethos to it That's really really bad. We don't want that sort of thing So there's actually you know think about it was was crucial a version of even Stalin ever demonized the way Vladimir Putin is No, you don't you didn't say that it's this hostile Russia is something It's not just a continuation of the Cold War legacy of the Soviet Union. It's something new and qualitatively different It's convenient to motivate people to spend more money here in this country finding the potential war Yeah, yeah, and it and it also dovetails with some of the domestic pathologies having to do with you know You know sexual and racial and ethnic issues that somehow you know The Russians are bad people because they're the kind of people like those deplorables that we've got to get rid of in this country You know that Putin is the leader of this this this right-wing conservative movement around the world and we got to kill that Yeah, there's a bad people in the United States, too. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah Well, let's let's segue and talk a little bit about your book your book just came out. I'm gonna hold up a Cover of it. I'm trying to get it without gleaming but before we talk a little bit about the book I have to share the back cover picture if we can zoom in on that at all. I know it's a little bit tricky to see There we go. What was that? That is an fascinating picture caught my attention immediately You have Pat Buchanan on the right Ron Paul on the left and Jim Jatress in the middle Tell us a little bit about the picture. Who's a handsome fellow with a short dark beard? Well, this was a Christmas party at Pat Buchanan's house in 1996 and you know, it was great. I mean all the all the best people were there. What can I say? Well, tell us about the book a little bit now Well, by the way, the cigarette I'm smoking there that was in 1962 the same year I was seven years old it was a hotel room in Paris and I didn't smoke another one until 2023 So I'm going to pace myself and not smoke another one until 2084 But it's it's a collection of my writings over the last five decades You know, and we were talking about this before the show You need to do the same collect your writings because it would be 10 times only 10 volumes like that, you know Because you know, I guess as I'm, you know, getting older I just didn't like the idea that anything I've written will just sort of disappear along with me when the time comes So I kind of figure well, there's something a little kind of a legacy thing and epitaph if you will and so it basically It's just I've written on any number of topics from you know in domestic politics international relations a lot of that Religion many many other things. I just wanted to have a kind of a compendium of it Well for me, I mean, it's kind of personal because a lot of this harkens back to that late 90s era Mm-hmm, or I started reading Justin Ramondo. I discovered anti-war.com. I discovered Jim Jattress I discovered your mother Stella Jattress who was a firebrand and I discovered Ron Paul and Lou Rockwell So you start reading these five people and you suddenly get a real sense of foreign policy And non-interventionism and it makes sense it becomes kind of a unified theory not rather than so this war is not good That war's okay. You just start understanding the whole the whole concept of it So a lot of these early essays, I can't wait to read it I just got it when we were at the conference But a lot of those early essays were really formative when I really started thinking seriously about foreign policy Yeah, and it really does reflect the evolution of my thinking because I was a very conventional conservative anti-communist then But I think as people get if you will meet a red pill about what's really going on in this country in the world It does tend to assume a kind of a unified coherence that we underestimate You know when you were Mark making comments about individuals that you knew that means ideas do have consequences. Exactly. They change lives And they're pretty they don't realize it's more powerful than those guns Well, I think it's about time we this being great that you've been here You kept all the way to a tax in I know you were in Texas Maybe you have to come see us so that that is really great. What people say? Have you seen beautiful downtown Clute and I just I just got to see it Their celebration each year is a meschetic Round them up and brand them So Well, I just want to thank you Jim for coming out we spent some time together chatting and thanks for all your participation in our The work we do at our PI and thanks for coming to the studio Hey Jim do you have a did address to tell our audience that they're looking to find out what you're going to do next week The only place I'm is X Twitter is at Jim Jattress. That's my only online presence And I'm very reachable. You know as as we say in Spanish. I am disposable So if you want to happy go out other people's programs and so and what kind of said and buy the book I want to thank our audience today for tuning in today. This has been an excellent program as far as I'm concerned I thank Jim very much for taking the time to come over and If you're ready to read and get a summary of what Jim has been thinking about He tells me 50 years, but I don't know I think you're filming a little bit on that 50 years Yes, I say there's You're about eight years old when you started or so Anyway, thank you very much, and I want to thank our audience for tuning in today. Please come back soon to the Liberty Report