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Laura Coates Live

Poll: More Voters Trust Harris On Abortion Policy Than Trump

Across the weeks leading up to Tuesday’s presidential debate, the news Americans have been hearing, reading and seeing about Vice President Kamala Harris and former President Donald Trump has continued shuffling, with the topics that resonate about each candidate shifting week to week. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Duration:
47m
Broadcast on:
10 Sep 2024
Audio Format:
mp3

Across the weeks leading up to Tuesday’s presidential debate, the news Americans have been hearing, reading and seeing about Vice President Kamala Harris and former President Donald Trump has continued shuffling, with the topics that resonate about each candidate shifting week to week.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co-founder of Angie, and one thing I've learned is that you buy a house, but you make it a home. Because with every fix, update, and renovation, it becomes a little more your own, so you need all your jobs done well. For nearly 30 years, Angie has helped millions of homeowners hire skilled pros for the projects that matter. From plumbing to electrical, roof repair to deck upgrades, so leave it to the pros who will get your jobs done well. So leave it to the pros who will get your jobs done well. Let us know in the comments below what you think of Angie Hicks, co-founder of Angie, and one thing I've learned is that you buy a house, but you make it a home. Because with every fix, update, and renovation, it becomes a little more your own, so you need all your jobs done well. For nearly 30 years, Angie has helped millions of homeowners hire skilled pros for the projects that matter. From plumbing to electrical, roof repair to deck upgrades, so leave it to the pros who will get your jobs done well. Higher high quality certified pros at angie.com. Ready to face off, Harris and Trump that take the stage in their first and probably only debate will take you inside the dueling strategies. Also tonight, police dragging NFL star Tyree Hill out of this car. The body cam video just released, and what Hill is now saying. We've got fresh reaction from none other than Stephen A Smith, and remembering the singular, incomparable James Earl Jones. Actor Courtney B. Vance will be my guest live tonight on Lara Coast Live. So has there ever been a debate as anticipated as tomorrow's? I mean really, talk about this political prices right game show doors with just 57 days to go. So you got behind door number one. You got the way the Harris campaign wants you to see the debate. The prosecutor versus the felon. Now behind door number two, the way the Trump campaign wants you to see it. The fighter versus a quote dangerous radical socialist. Now tens of millions have already decided which door they're going to pick and the way they will see the debate. But for those many undecided who have yet to do and make that decision, tomorrow's preview could in fact be the deal breaker. In less than 24 hours, America will see Donald Trump and Vice President Kamala Harris share the debate stage is very one you're looking at right now together in Philadelphia. You know what makes it even more intriguing? You're looking at the scene of their very first meeting. The first time will ever be in the same room conversing with one another. Trump on the left, Harris on the right. Harris will have the opportunity to do what so many Democrats said President Biden failed at doing in his first debate to prosecute the case against Donald Trump to turn a debate stage into a kind of political courtroom. Now Harris, she says she's ready to do just that. Trump on the other hand looks eager to land some punches on Harris's policy positions. They say Harris won't know what's coming and I quote, "Imagine a boxer trying to prepare for Floyd Mayweather or Muhammad Ali. You just don't know what angle they're going to come at you with." That's Jason Miller, a Trump senior advisor. Now if we're using boxing analogy already, I wonder if the gloves are going to come off. Former Democrat turned Trump ally Tulsi Gabbard has, she's been prepping Trump. Now she famously tried to take Harris a task on her record back in 2020 and tonight says that Trump is going to do the same. What Kamala Harris is saying, the lies that she is selling to the American people now, is the exact opposite of the record that she has had frankly as the incumbent in this race. She's been in the White House for the last three and a half years. She's not to be underestimated because she is talented on a debate stage. There's no question about that, but she's going to have a tough time trying to defend this record that quite frankly, from the view of the American people, is indefensible. So since we're in the mood for Muhammad Ali references, there'll be no floating, like a butterfly, like he did, Biden Hillary Clinton in 2016. That will be possible. The rules forbid that, and things like a B interruptions from 2020 against Biden also not possible, at least not in theory, because the rules forbid that the mics are going to be available and unmuted, right? The mics are going to be cut. So what exactly is Harris planning for? Well, this. He plays from this really old and tired playbook, right, where there's no floor for him in terms of how low he will go. And we should be prepared for that. We should be prepared for the fact that he is not burdened by telling the truth. Alright, let's go to the magic wall for the debate do's and don't with two campaign veterans. I know you wanted to see John King. Guess who I've got instead? I've got Brian Lanza, the former deputy communications director for Donald Trump's 2016 campaign, and former advisor to former president George W. Bush, and the late senator John McCain, Mark McKinnon, who spells out his 10 pointers for Kamala Harris and Vanity Fair. So really excited to have both of you guys at the magic wall. Let me begin with you, Mark. What does Harris need most to accomplish? Well, first of all, this debate is consequential for Kamala Harris, much more than for Donald Trump. People know Donald Trump. Trump is not going to change one vote, one way or the other, but Kamala Harris is still not well defined. And so the race right now is to define Harris. She wants to do it in her terms. Trump wants to do it in his and his. The most important thing that she can do is exude confidence. The most important attribute that people want in that president is perception of strength. And so confidence going into debate is the thing that she should really focus on, most of all, and having a lot of supreme confidence is key. She's got to talk about change and going forward. The problem is that most voters in this country believe that they want to change the direction of the country. They're not happy about it. And so the problem is that Kamala is, but by being vice president, is virtually the incumbent administration. So she has to figure out a way to make her argument about change while being an incumbent. And that's why a new way forward is how she does it. And how does she do that? She separates herself from role boss. Let him polish his watch. He doesn't mind if you separate yourself. He's not going to feel bad. He wants you to win. Go ahead and talk about the freedom agenda, different from the democracy agenda. Talk about your new plans on housing and your new plans and price gouging. Talk about all your new policies that separate you from your boss. Make it about change. Listen, your whole candidacy embodies change. You don't have to talk about being a woman, being a woman of color. It's all about change. But talk about your policy differences from your old boss. Any very fascinating points I'm going to bring you in here, Brian. I wonder about Trump as well. What are the most important points that he needs to hammer home? Well, first of all, I say Mark is right that President Trump is very well defined. I think this is his seventh debate. He's done this a lot. He's around television cameras all the time. So he's used to that apparatus of being around there. I think the first thing President Trump needs to do is acknowledge that Americans are suffering. He's going to be pointing to the prices of everything, the cost of affordability, everything's out of price range for everything, how every month households are struggling to make payments or having to max out their credit cards, take out new credit cards. He's got to make that case that America is suffering and that change is coming. And he has to additionally make the case of why America is suffering and how he's going to change that. He has to remind the American people that the Harris Biden administration created this inflation, created the dynamics that has wiped out their savings, that has led to bankruptcies, that has led to credit card deflods, defaults. He has to do all these things. But I think most importantly, which allows him to communicate that message best is I don't think he should be insulting Kamala Harris. Every time he insults Kamala Harris, the pundits, the media, they talk about those things that are not talking about the issues that matter to the American people, which are immigration and inflation. So if he insults Kamala Harris, I expect that to be the leading issue of everything. And we're not talking about the damage that the Harris Biden administration have done to the American family. So those are the three things I'd have him focus on. And I know those are the three things the campaign is also working to address. Really fascinating. Come on back to the table, Mark and Brian, because joining this conversation or CNN political analyst Natasha Alfred, all seen in contributor Lulu Garcia Navarro. So excited to talk to you guys. Look, Natasha, the New York Times Sienna poll shows this is a 28%. 28% of voters say that they need to learn more about Harris. She has an opportunity to tell people about her policies, about what she stands for. This is building sense. And before the DNC, how does she accomplish that? How does she not tell like a broken record, not have to constantly identify herself and move the conversation forward? Well, we know an estimated 29 million people watched that DNC speech. And there were folks who were coming in as Democrats who didn't know enough about Kamala Harris, but they saw the poise, they saw this commander in chief essence that she gave off effortlessly. But they also heard her story. Again, people who thought they knew Kamala, they thought they knew the Biden Harris administration, but hearing about her humble beginnings, the way that she worked for so much of what she had, the significance of a home, the fact that she knows what it means to actually get a home after years of not having it. It made her so relatable. And I think that for those who didn't watch that DNC, doing that the essence of the same thing on this debate stage, sort of rising above pettiness, I think that will work in her favor. So say they now identify and can relate or respect her personal journey. Lulu, how does she now go to the politics of it? And on the one hand, try to distinguish herself as the candidate top of the ticket no longer in the proverbial shadow, but also not alienate Joe Biden. This is going to be the hardest task for her because she does embody change. She is a change candidate by simply being a woman of color at the top of the ticket, but where she really is going to struggle is in defining herself, taking what she can from the record of the Biden administration, which is strong in certain aspects, but really trying to separate herself and others. And I think the real problem is going to be on immigration, because not only has the administration has a very poor record on immigration, but recent comments that have come to light that she made on immigration are also going to be troublesome for her to defend. And it's going to be a place where Donald Trump really attacks. But the real problem here is that we judge her. She is judged by a completely different standard than Donald Trump. You just heard this from my colleagues here. You know, a long list of what Kamala Harris has to do, it's hers to sort of lose. And then Donald Trump basically has to act normal. That's basically what we're asking of him. Brian, is that all he has to do? I'll take normal. I wonder about that, because is this by virtue in part that it's Donald Trump, or also that it is somebody who is a non-encompetent, although he once was, again, somebody who's an incumbent. A lot of this to me sounds like what Congress does. When you're the minority party, they spend a lot of time being unproductive and just trying to undermine the platform of those who are in the majority. All they got to do is play defense. Is that part of what's going on with Trump? Is that his only his thought, and his only responsibility? No, listen, I think at the end of the day, he still has to show a vision forward. I mean, if people want change, people are frustrated. Their economic conditions are worse than they were four years ago. And so as their hunger for that change, they're looking for something. The Harris campaign wants you to forget that they're responsible for the bad economic conditions for the last three and a half years and say focus on the focus forward, focus forward. And I think Trump has to say, yes, it was bad because of X, Y, and Z, Harris and Biden, but here the substantive differences I'm going to make because Harris really isn't promising change. She's saying, you know, we're going to do the same thing. Everything's great. Don't worry. We're just going to move things to a left a little bit more. That's not enough. People are suffering right now. Yeah, people are, but the problem is that prices are not going to go down. You know, I mean, deflation is not a thing. Nobody wants deflation. That would mean the economy is crashing. So this promise that is being made that somehow Trump is going to come in and everything's going to go back to 2019 before the pandemic is not a real one. And so I think, you know, speaking in facts, trying to say like, this is a plan, the economy is going in the right direction. You know, inflation has gone down substantially. Even the things that she's promoting today. And it's a popular thing. Look at the canceling student debt, right? That's more money into the economy. That's just going to perpetuate inflation even longer. So it's like her promise is to win this promise, see more money, which is going to make inflation even worse. I think that's the problem she has economically. But Trump is planning four times as much spinning as Harris. Absolutely. He would pump the deficit four times as much as Harris. But he's just judged differently. You think, wait, you think Trump is definitely the Harris? With respect to spinning, absolutely. He's given the past. Well, I think there are two things. One people have a sort of distorted view of what it was like four years ago. And the other thing is that Trump, no matter what he does, is a candidate of change. He always wants to break stuff. I mean, he doesn't come across as a typical politician. So no matter what he does, he's sort of a change candidate, even though he's been an incumbent president. How do you go ahead? How do you deal with that? If you have the criteria to be, if you're Harris, to be substantive, granular, and he has to just not interrupt and not go into the details of it, how does she have an opportunity to, on the one hand, do what needs to get done and also straddle that? Well, I think this is where the fourth estate comes in. This is our job, right? As journalists tomorrow, to actually push on the policy questions. Because what I do feel is that people are pushing for a higher standard of policy detail than they've actually pushed Donald Trump for. Go to their websites. I want every viewer right now to go and compare the websites. Donald Trump's agenda 47, the issues that he lays out, the promises, in some ways they kind of seem like they're written by a middle schooler. Aside from the exclamation marks, they're just so general and broad. When I go to Kamala Harris's page, I do see perhaps her issues are unlimited, right? She has a few issues that she focuses on, but we're talking about improving the number of affordable housing units, three million. She's giving examples of things that I think feel tangible, going against price gouging people who are paying too much for groceries and saying, it's not just about the president not taking care of inflation. There were companies that were exploiting this moment of COVID and using it to bring in record profits. So making those connections for people I think are important, it's up to the journalists tomorrow to push both of them on the policies that they're advocating. And look up to the voters at the end of the day to decide what they're looking at and what they like. And I think on the one hand, they're going to want the specificity, but you also know there's level of superficiality when it comes to politics, particularly when either you have a woman on the ticket, or you have a woman of color in the ticket, or you have somebody bombastic or perceived like Trump is as well. People have preconceived notions and already have very strong opinions of both. Now, what are they going to do? I have to wait on it. Stand by everyone. Because ahead, one of the biggest issues in America will likely come up with the debate. And you know what it is? Reproductive rights. And Trump stands anything but clear. Will Harris be able to capitalize? Plus police release body cam video of NFL starts are re-killed being detained at a traffic stop. Stephen A Smith is here to respond. They say opposites attract. 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There's one issue likely to come up to earn tomorrow's debate and you know it'll be abortion and Donald Trump is likely going to face questions about his shifting message on reproductive rights which has gotten only more ambiguous in the last few weeks. First on August 23rd Trump touted that his administration would be great for women and their reproductive rights. Then on August 29th he seemed to support a ballot measure in Florida codifying abortion rights into the state's constitution. So you'll vote in favor of the amendment? I'm voting that I am going to be voting that we need more than six weeks. Cue the alarm bells from his campaign because they tried to put the genie back in the bottle and said Trump hadn't made up his mind. The very next day Trump apparently did make up his mind in the other direction. I think six weeks you need more time than six weeks. I've disagreed with that right from the early primaries. When I heard about it I just disagreed with it. At the same time the Democrats are radical because the nine months is just a ridiculous situation that way you can do an abortion in the ninth month. All of that stuff is unacceptable. So I'll be voting no for that reason. And tonight during a call with the National Faith Advisory Board Trump never mentioned abortion despite taking credit for the end of Roe v. Wade. My panel is back with me and of course I'm looking to see how they're both going to react to the accusation that they are shapeshifters in a way that they are going to fluctuate. They're going to flip flop. Also of course the more personal aspects of it. How will they greet each other? What's going to happen? But Brian let me ask you about this. He's going to face a very tough question on abortion. And I wonder how he will account for his shifting positions and stances. You know Alyssa I think what he'll say is he'll point back to 2016 and said listen I put out a list through the federal society of people who wanted to overturn Roe judges who wanted to overturn Roe v. Wade and send it to the states and we achieved that. I'm very comfortable with the states making these decisions because that's the closest to the people and they should make the states. He himself has said that six weeks is too soon for him. He's uncomfortable with that. But he's also stated the obvious where most of the country is that thinks nine months is way too extreme. So he's somewhere in the middle but at the end of the day because he lives in Florida he had made a difficult choice. He had to choose six weeks instead of nine months and that's what the choice is. But it's a complicated issue for him because he's still sort of navigating even when I saw that statement he addressed reproductive rights. That's not the way the abortion community likes that word being used. So there's the old Trump comes out. He was pro-choice most of his life. He was a Democrat most of his life and he's struggling with that position but he's clearly taking the position at least today that he's pro-life. He's already been the president. He also was the president behind securing Supreme Court justices who overturn Roe v. Wade. How is his position still not clear? Well listen I mean first of all it's not that complicated for Trump because he's never had an ideological position on it. He's only done with politically beneficial to him. He did all that to get elected president as you said he was a Democrat before and support. But he's not going to win a single vote for anybody that supports reproductive rights but he's but the reason he did that flip on on floor is he's concerned about what's happening with women and women are turning out in incredible numbers in early voting and registration and he's worried about that effect. So he tried to have it both ways and then he pissed off his base and then he had to turn back and flip back again because he really has no core belief about reproductive rights. He just does whatever it is. But but but but if you look at the recent polling, the shocker in this is that more people see him as moderate than they do than they see Kamala Harris as moderate. Trump as moderate which is just like to me inconceivable but you know I don't know if they're confusing morally flexible with moderate but it does work in his favor that he shifts his positions because people see him as a deal maker. They still have this impression of him as a kind of businessman who doesn't need to stand on ideology will be willing to make a deal on something as fundamental as reproductive rights if it is convenient for him. And so I think it actually benefits him that he is wishy-washy on this particular issue. You're right, it's not going to win him any votes with women but for the for a lot of people they just see him as someone who is willing to not stand on ideology. Well you know speaking of women I mean he's going to be debating one right and we know that the optics are going to be very important Natasha. I want to play for everyone for a second. The way he has struggled to in some ways control his attacks against them on the debate say listen to this. I've been very nice to you although I could probably maybe not be based on the way you have treated me but I wouldn't do that. Question, do you still believe I do? You leave me all the time. My Social Security payroll contribution will go up as will Donald's assuming he can't figure out how to get out of it but what we want to do is to replenish the social security trust fund. So there is reporting that Harris's campaign wants to bait him into acting in this manner. On the other hand Trump's campaign is probably already alerted to that and wants to know how to retort. How do they do it? How do they retort? Well how do both sides both campaigns? How does the Harris campaign effectively exploit this tendency? How does the Trump campaign do something to repel it? I think it's Kamala Harris's job to remind people that it's not about how Donald Trump is acting for the moment. It's about who he's been. I mean we just talked about abortion. He has claimed responsibility for that. You have legitimate stories of women who've been turned away at the emergency room, right? So when you go to the facts, it's not about the person that you're pretending to be in order to get votes and to win a political point. It's about who you've been. That's where his record works against him and I think again even if he doesn't go out and attack her personally, if he plays it perfectly, it is the job of journalists to press him on the things that he is promising to do and in that they will be able to exploit some weaknesses. What should their job, what should Kamala Harris's job be in terms of and I think you're saying if generously when he makes a personal attack, when he mispronounces the name, when he tries to get her hot under the collar, what should she do in response? I'm sure she's got some singers ready. I mean we all know that this is going to happen and she's been prepping for quite some time. I don't know what they should be but again, what are people giving advice to her? They're saying take the high road but also you've got to look tough. You have to seem like you're forceful but at the same time you have to be winning. It's this constant sort of pressure to be many things all at once and that I think is the danger because when Donald Trump is on the offensive, what often happens is that it does fluster people. It does make people feel like they're under attack and what he wants to make her do is basically lose her cool and seem like she's irrational, seem like she's dumb, all the things that he's been accusing her of. That's the one thing I'm actually confident about. As you describe that, I actually feel really good because you've seen her in those back and forths in the Senate. She's good at this. She is fierce. She's so good at being and I know that she's usually in the control seat, asking the questions and things like that but I think she's calm under pressure. Even her line sisters said that at her sorority line sisters. I know some people don't understand like how important that is but that's a culture thing. She's got it down pack so I think it's going to be a strength for her. He also said Mark that she should throw in a couple laughs because that might irritate somebody like well I want to play for you. He does not like to be laughed at. Listen to this. "I hate when people laugh at me. I hate it. I hate it. It's so disrespectful." So Sheila Cora, start laughing. Well listen, I think her laugh is one of the best things about her and I think it's incredibly sexist when Trump a Republican's attacker for her laugh and I would love to hear her laugh at the debate and for her to even say something about it and Donald I know you don't like my laugh but you know what I think is really weird? I've never seen you laugh ever. Could you laugh for us right now? Would that be enough friends? I think we've all seen him laugh over the years but listen I think when you sort of do this insult exchange and what the campaign wants Trump to response when she tries to bait him. You know I would recommend a campaign is you know immediately for President Trump just to start talking about the price of milk between then and now and just you know because the real insult is what the Americans people have to pay for the Joe Biden-Harris inflation economy. That's the insult to the American people. It's not what Harris says to Trump or what Trump has says to Harris. It's what the people are feeling every day that they have to make a payment for gas or food. That's the insult. It's not the penniless. That's not what people are going to be tuning in for. People are going to be turning in for it. But Harris can effectively bait him right back and just say okay Donald let's talk about jobs. You know you lost more jobs than anybody since Herbert Hoover. You lost more than two million jobs a month. We gained 15 million. Mark here's the problem with that and that's the problem that the Harris campaign struggles within the Biden campaign struggle with with the economy is they genuinely believe they created all those jobs. Flipping the switch for getting rid of COVID and people returning to the same jobs is not job creation. You know it's not job creation and the American people know it's not job creation and that's why they didn't buy that argument. We'll see if they buy it and what and who also will explain it the best tomorrow that's incumbent upon those two people who've asked the opportunity to be the president of the United States. Thank you so much everyone. Next newly released police body cam video showing NFL star Tyrene Hill being handcuffed and detained before yesterday's game. Hill is speaking out on CNN tonight and so was Stephen A Smith who joins me next. It was only a few hours before the season's opening game. Miami Dolphins wide receiver Tyre Kale was one block away from Miami's Hard Rock Stadium when he was stopped by police. He was pulled from his car surrounded by multiple officers thrown to the ground. A knee was put in his back and he was handcuffed. Now tonight after public outcry and a lot of it the Miami police department is releasing body camera footage of the incident and it is disturbing to watch. Take a look. Hey, keep your window down. Keep your window down. I'm going to get you out of the car. As a matter of fact get out of the car. Give me that. Get out of the car. Give me that. Break that freaky window. Get out of the car. Get out of the car right now. Put the plane this way. Get out. Get out. Get out. Get out. Get out. Get out. Get out. What part of problems do you understand? I do. I do. I do. I'm getting arrested, Drew. I'm getting arrested. I'm getting arrested, Drew. I'm getting up. I'm telling you. I'm when we tell you do something, you do it. You understand? You understand? Now what you want for what we tell you? You do the f***ing confused. Now, about a minute after this and once he was handcuffed he was again forced to the cement. I can have surgery on my knee. I can have surgery on my knee, bro. I can have surgery on my knee, bro. I can have surgery on your ears when we go there with chill, bro, chill, bro. Now tonight, Tyree Kiel, speaking for the first time since that body camera video was released right here on CNN. If I wasn't Tyree Kiel, worst case scenario, we would have had a different article, Tyree Kiel got shot in front of Hard Rock Stadium. The Miami Police Department says that they released this footage earlier than usual "to reinforce the department's commitment to keeping the public informed." They've also placed one of the officers involved on administrative duties that's important while an investigation is being conducted. And the police union, they are defending the officers saying that Hill was "not immediately cooperating with the officers on scene who pursue into policy and for their immediate safety placed Mr. Hill in handcuffs." Joining me now, Stephen A. Smith, the host of First Take on ESPN, is also the host of the Stephen A. Smith show on YouTube. Stephen A, I have to know what your reaction was when you saw the body camera video, not just what we heard about it, but when you actually saw it, and I remember a phrase you used earlier today, and it stuck with me, the ease of dehumanization. What was your reaction? Well, I still feel that way from the standpoint that it was excessive, it was completely unnecessary on a part of the officers, particularly and specifically when he was handcuffed. And so I stand by everything that I said earlier this morning on ESPN's First Take, and of course my YouTube show, the Stephen A. Smith show, I've met what I said when I said it was just unnecessary, and it just speaks to the ease with which black men can be dehumanized because you've seen situations where people who happen to not be black have had issues with the police, and yes, they may end up in handcuffs and they be taken away similar to what happened to golf or Scotty Sheffler in Kentucky a few months ago in May. But he was detained, he was put in handcuffs, he was detained, he was taken away, he was arrested. That certainly was not the case with Tyree Hill, but in the same breath to forcibly throw him to the ground face first, to know that this 90-plus degree weather, and you're putting him on that asphalt, and in terms of that heat, and then afterwards he's standing up, you already have him cuffed, you have other officers around in the field the need to throw him to push him and shove him to the ground that way, to sit him down that way, was completely unnecessary, and it speaks to the excessive behavior of the police officers, but in fairness to police officers everywhere, and specifically those police officers there, when this latest body cam footage was released, and we saw it, let me remind everybody, they did ask him to roll down his window, not one, not twice, but at least three times, then they also asked him to get out of the car. In each instance, there was hesitation on his part and a lack of cooperation, so when they say he was uncooperative, you can see why they feel that way. Now again, I want to emphasize, that's no reason for them to go as far as they did, but in the same breath, him saying that he didn't know what he did and that he didn't do anything wrong, well that's not entirely true. You're black man in America, I will remind everybody of what I'm sure you would agree with Laura. You roll down all your windows, you put your hand on that steering wheel. The last thing you want to do, especially if you have tinted windows, is leave your windows up, when the police officer is telling you to put it down, because when you don't do something like that, we have seen and we have had a reason to sense that the worst possible thing could happen. Tyree Kill did not do that, so when they say he was uncooperative, they did have a point with the latest body cam footage we saw. And yet, Stephen A Smith, and you articulated a few points, I'm going to address them in turn, one on the idea of cooperation. There are many people who would say there are instances of people fully cooperating, doing nothing wrong, and the lesson that is imparted around black and brown people around this country is there is no escaping those officers who endeavor to commit excessive force against you. That's not all officers, but those who endeavor do so. And the second point is it strikes a lot of people that this was an ego issue, not one of force. I'm talking about for the officers. Officers are entitled to use force, to repel a force used against them, but it seemed as though what they were reacting to was an attitude that they perceived and they reacting to the fact that he was slow in his efforts. This is not the same thing though as one feeling thing that they actually are in danger, and that's the criteria. Well, that is the criteria. And you being a lawyer by profession, you would know better than me. I'm not refuting a syllable of what you said. I completely supported 1,000%. And as a black man in America who's been pulled over, who's been cuffed, who's been detained, who's been thrown in jail for a traffic violation. Yes, it happened to me in Troy, Michigan many years ago. I know exactly what you're talking about, and you're absolutely 1,000% on the money. But that's not what we're talking about here, because we're not acting as if the officer is right. Even though they made a point when they said he was a bit cooperative, it still doesn't negate the reality that their physical behavior was completely unnecessary. How they acted towards Kalei Campbell and John new Smith, his teammates, was completely unnecessary. Even though they didn't identify themselves as his teammates, they identified themselves as his friend. It was all unnecessary. It was all beyond the pale. It was all completely unnecessary. And in one officer's case, it was definitely excessive. But what we're talking about is the importance of black men being able to go home, being able to avoid putting themselves in a position where you can have a rogue police officer whose ego might be a bit compromised, who has a temper tantrum because they're dealing with whatever it is that they're dealing with. And they may be taking it out on a patron or somebody just a regular citizen. We understand what the dilemma is. So what I'm saying is when Tyreek Hill looks into the cameras and he says, "I did nothing wrong," are you saying that you would do exactly what you did and you would encourage everyone else to do exactly what you did? I would challenge that. Now, we got to go, Steve and Ace Smith, but I do got to ask you about this. I want to know what your take is on the fact that Beyonce was shut out of the CNAs. Oh, it's reprehensible. They're so full of it. I mean, I wouldn't blame people for Boycott in the country music awards. You got to be kidding me. I mean, you know, top 10 on the billboards. Obviously, Texas Holden was an incredibly popular song. The whole album was big time. We know who she is, what she brings to the table, what her greatness personifies, and what have you. And you just have people that were resentful from her because she wasn't a country music star back in 2016 when she performed. And their mentality was she didn't belong there in the first place. They want to tell you that she didn't belong there. Well, what reason would you have for doing it? At the end of the day, what defines a country music singer? Somebody that's performing country music, just like an RB singer's performing R&B. A hip hop artist is performing hip hop. It's not the person. It's their art and their artistry. And what she put forth was top notch. It was big time. It was incredibly deserving of being acknowledged, if not flat out rewarded. It's one thing for her to not win. But for her not to even receive a nomination, I'll be damned if that wasn't some form of prejudice on the part of the country music community. Not the entire community, not everybody, not all. I'm just talking about all nominee for the country music awards. That is an egregious, egregious thing to do. Stephen A Smith, thank you so much. Nice to talk to you, my friend. Thank you. You too. Take care. Ahead, remembering James Earl Jones, who played roles spanning one of the most powerful forces in the galaxy to a working class father in segregated America. Courtney B. Vance is here to share his legacy next. This week on The Assignment, with me, Audie Cornish, the actor and producer, LeVar Burton, on the political events that shaped his life. I have moved in spaces where I am the raisin in the oatmeal my entire life. Yeah. And I believe you have to. Yeah, for sure. I don't consider it a burden. It's just my life. Yeah. Listen to the assignment with me, Audie Cornish, streaming now, on your favorite podcast app. Well, that voice, one thing is for sure. Everyone will remember the great James Earl Jones, the king of the big booming voice whose career has spanned six decades from Broadway to Hollywood. He passed away today at the age of 93. He was one of the most versatile actors of his time. And even though he could command anyone's attention with his voice, his physical presence in front of the camera or on the stage was just as powerful. He has nearly 200 film and television credits to his name and his start in dozens of plays, one starring in 18 plays in just 30 months. He gave us shocking revelations that became part of culture itself. He gave us hope and something to dream about. People will come, Ray. People will most definitely come. He had advice for navigating one of the toughest sports of all. One of the about politics in Washington. Four words. Watch your back, Jack. He gave us philosophical reflections about the nature of power. What is steel compared to the hand that wields it? And he gave us tough love and harsh truths. Your mama and me worked it out between us. And lacking your black ass was not a pop of the bargain. And don't you try and don't do life. Word, if some are to lack you or not, you best make sure that they are doing right by you. You understand what I'm saying, boy? Yes, sir. That was from the play, Fences. Jones won a Tony for his role as Troy Maxson, a black working class father trying to provide for his family in a 1950s America. The actor playing his son in that clip is Courtney B. Van, who was nominated for a Tony for his role as Corey Maxson. Courtney B. Van's incomparable in his own right joins me now. Courtney, thank you so much for being here. Frankly, we could be here all day just talking about the virtues of this artist. You work with him for what three and a half years on Fences. Tell me what that was like to be not only guided and mentored, but beside him. He was my father. My parents did the show five or six different times in different cities. And my parents came to each one. And he brought me along. He taught me, I knew nothing when I first started with Fences. I was completely green. And he and Frankie Faison and Mary Alice and Charlie Brown, Ray O'Reilly, they all brought me along. And that man, that man, that line of you don't be looking to see what people asking people what they can do for you just make sure they're doing right by you. That is the line of my life doing right by somebody. Now go on and cut them bones. It's amazing to think about him in those moments. I mean, he played anywhere from a fellow and Lear and Oberon. I mean, he was a stage, a consummate stage actor and many people. I got in trouble once in my household when I said to my father, "Oh, I know James Earl Jones. He's the voice of Darth Vader." And my father almost jumped out of his skin to give me this man's repertoire in full knowing that he could not be reduced. I was a stutterer my entire childhood. He battled it, overcame it, and eventually it became part of his emoting in a powerful way. Tell me about people are missing about James Earl Jones. And when you think about his legacy, Courtney, what should it be? He, the overcoming, there was a whole group of, he was a pioneer, Sisley Tyson, Moses Gunn. You know, he and the Lloyd Richards. He in fact, Lloyd Richards who directed him, us and fences, James Earl and was about maybe five, three, five, four. He was, James Earl was his understudy in a play. So, you know, they were pioneers back in the 50s, 40s and 50s. There was no one that they could look to. They just went out there and did it. They were, they were out there alone. And they were, they got together with each other and took care of each other and watched each other's back. The Blacks was a show, a play that they were all in that I think believed that ran for about three years. So, they brought that to all of that to fences and to me. And I was the beneficiary of all of their largesse. So, he took me by the hand. And when we were, when I was up to speed with them, Lloyd brought me along right when we opened on Broadway, we were on fire. So, if you missed it, you missed it. Man, I had a chance to see him when he was big daddy and cat in the hot tune roof. And that was going to be almost nearly 20 years ago now, but just being able to see this certified Thespian who had two Tony Awards, a special Tony for lifetime achievements, cast and roles not typical for a Black man, a doctor in the 60s, let alone all the work he was doing. And as you said, they were alone. Tell me what lessons he imparted in the wisdom, knowing that time to time, Courtney, I can't imagine the experience of James Earl Jones coming up was all that different than the experience of Courtney Vance as well. Well, I had James to look at. That's the major difference. They didn't have anyone. So, for them to to navigate the world, where there were no August Wilson and Lloyd Richards to cast them and taint. So, they had to find their way. They had to make a way out of no way, and and still maintain their dignity. They were the standard for who we grew up to be. My wife, Angela Bassett, said she saw him in a play, a mason man, and that propelled her into her career. So, he's influenced and his generation, Sisley Tyson, they've all influenced thousands of African American actors and thousands of people. I mean, he wasn't just the African Americans actor father. He was all of our fathers and that father is the greatest legacy that he was all of our father. I tell you, he made us all proud and will continue to do so. And I cannot wait to share this man's legacy with my own children as I already have. In part, Courtney B. Vance, a legend in your own right. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me, Lord. We love you, by the way, by the way. I love you very much too. Thank you. I'm getting inside that you're even here. Before we go, reaction tonight from others who James Earl Jones impacted over his career, Mark Hamill writes, "R.I.P. Dad from Disney CEO Bob Iger, the stories he brought to life with a uniquely commanding presence and a true richness of spirit have left an indelible mark on generations of audiences. And from Wendell Pierce, who says James Earl Jones is the sole reason he became an actor, he stirred a vocation in me that gave voice to my unsung heart songs. For example, he led me on the exploration of my own personal humanity and the study of human behavior and others and the intangible, ever-present soul. 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