[ Beep ] [ Music ] From Relay, this is Upgrade, episode 528, for September 9th, 2024. Today's show is brought to you by Uni Pizza Ovens, delete me, and backblaze. My name is Mike Hurley, and I have the pleasure of being joined by Jason Snell. Hello, Jason Snell. Hello, Mike Hurley, how are you? I am very good, my friend, it's Apple Event Day. It's a big day, big day, big day. We're fresh off, you're fresh off just returning from Apple Podcast. I got out of the car, and now I'm here. That's how that works, like a street from car to podcast, from Apple Event to car to podcast. And we've barely spoken about anything from today, so I actually, my snorkel question comes from me again today. I tend to own these seasons because I just want to ask you things. Vibes? About being at the event, about the event, and... Do I ask the question vibes, however you want to answer that question? I said vibes, sir! I said vibes! Sir, I said good vibes! Yes, I think all the information you need is in the question. Vibes. Saw a bunch of people, that was nice. It's a funny event. I feel like the event is actually a whole bunch of international media and video influencers and things who are kind of like, nobody knows them and they don't know anybody. And then there's those of us who know each other, who are kind of like on the outside. So it's like, hey, it's John Gruber, hey, there's Markey's Brownlee, there's I Justine. Markey's Brownlee, who got off a flight from Australia. From Australia, yeah, yeah, yeah, but he was there because he was at the Ultimate Disc World Cup. Keep one. I said this to Stephen, man cannot recall it. Not only did he win a gold medal for Team USA, he scored the winning point. Oh, man, look at that. Well, he's a star. He's a star in all things, all phases. So those people, some people I see, relatives of friends of the show, I'm not going to mention who, but you know who it is, probably. Anyway, good stuff. And then beautiful venue, they have that new venue that they depress this about, I didn't see it. They couldn't even see where it was. It's like through the trees or something. There's this observatory something. It's like a bunker. Yeah. I don't know. I didn't see it. And then so it's so it's weird, right? So I was sitting next to somebody who is like had a had a badly leaking headphone in their ear doing simultaneous translation of the video. Oh, no. So that was kind of unpleasant, but that's the, but that is also iPhone event in a nutshell, which is a lot of people from all over the world because, and I've said this before, I'm going to say it again, cause I feel like I want to break out of our little, um, our little space of people who care about Apple. For us, the iPhone is important, but so are all sorts of other things. For the world, the iPhone is super, super important and nothing else Apple does is even close to as important. So this is a totally different vibe as an event because the iPhone is so important. So the people there were very different hands on area afterward, kind of wild, because you got a, like I was standing behind a guy who literally spent five minutes taking iPhone photos of the iPhone in his hands. And I'm sitting there. I've done that. I've been there. And I'm sitting there thinking, I know this is your job, sir, but I also know that none of your photos are going to be any good. They're all going to be crappy photos. And I came to the conclusion that like after a certain point, just use apples photos because your photos are bad. Your photos are really badly lit and ugly. And no one wants to see your hand. I did ask one of the people there, if the people who are doing the hands on area are like, they get manicures beforehand and all that because they also have them be hand models for all the shots. And I thought you should probably, if you're Apple, I would make sure that everybody who's going to be holding a phone in front of a media person have like a manicure. If they're going to enforce it, they have to hold it. You know what I mean? Right? Yeah. I mean, men or women, it doesn't matter. However, the woman I was talking to was like, yeah, that's, yeah, I thought it was a good idea. That's why I got the teal because I like the teal matching, the teal iPhone. I was like, oh, that's very smart. She knows what she's doing. Yeah, yeah, pro pro tip there. So anyway, vibes, it's an iPhone event. It's unlike any other event. I did get a chance to talk to a bunch of people, talk to the product manager for photos and camera who is in the event. I got to talk to her afterward, I've talked to her before because I've talked to her about the photos app a lot, you know, ran into a bunch of other interesting people. Most importantly though, I was standing talking to John Gruber and John Turner's walked up and said, hi, John, hi, Jason, and I thought, John Turner just knows who I am. Got some thorough briefing. Was he walking around of an airpiece? It was just him. I got to be honest, actually one of the most charming things about this because, you know, they're not on stage anymore. It's just a video event. One of the most charming things about this is I don't think he had shaved in a day or two. He was, he was dressed super cash. It was, he was no different than any other random person who would walk up to me and say hi at an Apple event and not the guy where Mark Gurman's like, he's going to be the next CEO, not like that at all, just super casual. And I got to hear, I'm not going to retell the whole story, but apparently it happened not too long ago that John Gruber was looking out his window of his home in Philadelphia and saw John Turner's literally walking down the sidewalk. He drove over to John's house. Well, this is the thing is that it's an amazing coincidence and completely coincidental and I'm sitting there thinking, or is that what they want you to think? They just want you to know they can see you. John Turner is circling the block. They want you to know. He, he, Thomas wants you to know he knows your name and also he's not far away. So John Turner's walks down the sidewalk. The next step is that a great job is we act, gets out of a cab and then a, an open top double decker bus tour bus goes by and I think Phil Schiller is driving it. Yep. I'm sure it's all a coincidence, John. I'm sure it's all a coincidence. If you would like to send in a question for us to open a future episode of the show, just go to upgradefeedback.com and you can send it in. Before we talk about the draft results, I want to take a moment to talk about our campaign with our friends over at St. Jude Children's Research Hospital, which we do every year to a very proud of and as a community, we have not only raised $160,000 nearly for this year. Over the last five years, we have surpassed $3 million raised. We join St. Jude every year during Chartered Cancer Awareness Month and the relay community has come together once again to show why it's the best around. We do it. Money, money, money, money, money, who raises all the money. We do. And it's for St. Jude. So look, why do we do this? Because St. Jude Children's Research Hospital is an incredible place. It saved the life of Stephen Hackett's son and it saved the life of probably countless others because it's not just the kids that are treated at St. Jude. It is also the research that is shared worldwide, which is developed at St. Jude and give them for free to the world. I want to tell you a little bit about something that goes on on the campus though. One of the most important parts of being a patient at St. Jude is having space to not be a patient and just be a kid. Last year, St. Jude opened the Family Commons. This is a 45,000 square foot space that is just for families. It's a treatment and clinical staff free floor. It is a place for families to rest and reconnect between appointments. This is on campus at the hospital. It is a place where the families don't have to be around all of the treatment and all of the medical stuff that they're around. They can just be around each other. It's kind of a town hall where families can gather to get a coffee and kids can be creative in an on-site recording studio, an art room and a maker space that has all of the tools and technology like 3D printers for hands-on learning and inventing. There are play areas, private rooms to rest, take a nap, science lab and a library, tech support and childcare. The space came about after feedback from the parents of St. Jude, the patients, the parents of the patients who were looking for a space on campus where they as a family could get some down time together between the clinical appointments and have that sense of normalcy. This is just one of the many incredible things that this place provides, but to provide this for these children, they need your donations. The relay community has adopted this campaign as its own over the last five years and it's very easy for you to get involved yourself. If you go to St. Jude.org/relay, you can register to create your own fundraiser. You can join us in raising money for St. Jude. After you sign up, share your fundraiser with your friends, your family, spread the word for this amazing mission. You can increase the amount of impact that you can have for the kids of St. Jude by signing up for a fundraiser of your arm. People who sign up and host their own fundraisers can earn some limited edition incentives. Some of them are so good to post on the socials in the Discord today. The desk mat that we have for this year, which is listed there, is incredible. There's also challenge coins and there's also a hat and a cup with relay and St. Jude branding on it. Super cool stuff that's available to you. Go to St. Jude.org/relay and learn more. When we rally for a common cause, we become more than a community, we become beacons of hope for all and that is why we are asking all of you to join relay and St. Jude this September for Childhood Cancer Awareness Month. Together we can help cure childhood cancer. Go to St. Jude.org/relay to donate today. Please go to St. Jude.org/relay. Should we do the draft results, Jason Snow? Yes, yes. We have agreed prior to airing. Yeah. In fact, I dropped some of my things that I would have been a stickler on because it doesn't matter. Yeah. Because the best I could do is come up with a 7/7 score with you getting the over and the tiebreaker. Yeah. So congratulations. I will turn my penance after the show. Me too. Now look at that. I just got to say for a second. It is. But Jason, I lost it once to get right back, you know, for the people that write in and they say it's impossible for someone to win if they don't get to pick first. Well, I just proved it, didn't I? But you know what I'm saying? It is. And it's because you killed me on the other picks. I really blew it on the other picks. That's what got me. Yeah. Yeah. So let's run through yours real quick. There was a faster A-series chip, the capture button, which is called the camera capture. What is the name? I get it a thousand times today and camera control. I cannot get that one in my head. The capture button. Not a name. There are functions. Yep. Apple intelligence features, given a date more specific than quote, this fall. October baby. Yep. There's one that's first coming. And then you had this increased screen brightness, which none of the headphones got. 2,000 nits. I was very surprised about that. I was too. And Apple Watch gets a larger screen. Yep. You got that. Apple watches are a new physical size. You got that. Even though they didn't say it at all, we're going to give it. We'll get to it. Lots of very weird detail. Your choice is today, which I'm fascinated to talk about. New AirPods, non-pro or max introduced. You got that. But there was no specific Mac OS release date set. It's September 16th. There you go. September 16th. But they didn't say it. But it wasn't in the video. Neither did they say for iOS either. Which is... It's September 16th. Wild. Wild. Well, it's not in the video. But TV plus, trailer or promo, they did not show any. Which is also... No. Weird. I do think. Yeah. Then we go over to me. Pro phones get larger screens. Which I did. They did. Five times optical zoom on both phones. It's true. Yes. Ultra wide camera improvements. It's true. Vertical camera lens on the iPhone 16 line. Yep. Then we have Apple mentions RAM or memory increases for the iPhone line now. All right. So this one you didn't get because they don't mention memory increases. They increase the memory bandwidth. Yeah. But they didn't specifically mention the memory increase. But we're going to come back to this because it's going to get you a point a little later on. Yeah. But not here. Well, come back to a second. So I can do a slight victory lap on it. New watch face. There's two of them, I think. Three of them, actually. At least. At least. But we saw three in the presentation. So yeah. Apple Watch SE did not get updated though. So don't get that point. No. Which is wild. Specific iOS. I've had release date set. No. New AirPods Max introduced. That. Okay. And Apple Vision Pro mentioned in his. Right. I'll just mention, I did actually ask the AirPods product manager about the AirPods Max. And I said, how are you referring to the AirPods Max? Because is it just that they're new colors and they have a USB-C or do they do other things? And he said, well, there's also the enhancement where you can do personal spatial audio and the like with them updating the AirPods Pro and not calling it a new model but adding new features when they added the USB-C case where they're like, oh, also on the Vision Pro, it's got reduced latency. This is another example of a like a stealth AirPods update. Barely one. Well, but again. But I would say it's absolutely a new model because of that. I might have quibbled. But there's no, the personal personal, personalized spatial audio puts it across the line for me. And Vision Pro. Yes. Vision Pro mentioned because they did spatial capture. I'm so nervous during that moment because he kept talking and talking and talking and not saying it. I'm like, say it, say the words. And he said the words. And then he said the words. Yeah. Yeah. He got there. He got there. And I actually at that moment turned to underscore who came up to watch me today and said, I think they just wanted me to draft. Yeah. Yeah. The Saint Jude Challenge was a failure. Ultimately. It was a failure. We made it too hard. We need to make it a lot easier because we had like next generation Siri. They haven't said that before. They didn't say it. They didn't mention the any awards. They didn't announce anything with Google Gemini. And they didn't describe anything in this as blow away, which shame on them. But you are going to win the Saint Jude Challenge and get three points for the Mike versus Stephen as well and one point for the draft because your choice here was Ram or memory and referring to the iPhone and unlike your draft pick, which was memory increases here, you just said they're going to refer to the memory or Ram on the iPhone. And they did because they extolled the virtues of the faster, wider memory bandwidth, which is one of the most boring things, but it doesn't matter. You get it. So with that, I am also brought level with Stephen on the Mike versus Stephen points. We're now 45 each, which is great, wonderful. So it's 30 points that I get for that in the St. Jude, Mike versus Stephen, but in the St. Jude Challenge, I bet three on it, which gets converted to 30. The one thing I say, like while they did not go as heavy as I thought, honestly, I think it is remarkable that they mentioned memory and reference to the iPhone, no matter how they mentioned it. But of course, they did it in terms of chip of their chip prowess. Of course they did. Of course. And they did also refer to it in like the way the spirit of what I was talking about. It was in there, which is they say that they need this to store large models and the bandwidth to access them quickly, which is why I thought they will talk about RAM, but they can't bring it in a pair of themselves to say RAM, but I couldn't do it. Couldn't do it. So there we go. I feel pretty plays about when in the draft and the line. Yeah. Yeah. I thought I probably had this one, but it all fell apart in the, yeah. I did what I always do, which is I, the day of the event, I sit with all of the rumors that we've gotten since we recorded, which usually is at least one more mark, go and report, which there was. And I kind of re like grade it all for myself. And I graded you as winning this morning. Hmm. Interesting. And then, and then I will rise as it's happened because I thought you were going to get a full sweep at 10. That's why I thought it was going to happen. I, um, I thought the Apple TV one was questionable. I'm surprised that the screens didn't get any brighter and I am surprised that they didn't mention the release dates, although we were to cancel each other out there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I thought you would have got the full sweep. Yep. Um, I want to talk about a couple of overall thoughts about this event before we start digging into the products. And like, so again, this is just me as a, as a viewer, right? And like, I don't have context for stuff I haven't seen products, et cetera. But there was, there were two things that really stuck out to me. One was a lot of Apple intelligence and two was that this event felt like it, it was dragging in a few places. The Apple intelligence thing was, is interesting to me because they, it was part of every product that they could talk about it, like, especially the funds, really, it's part, part, part. You know, it's in all of the ads and stuff that they're showing, which is super interesting to me because a lot of the features that they have in the ads and in like the promo videos, they're nebulous in both quality and timeline. Like, yes. And like they're even talking about the personal context. We don't know, honest, like there is a scenario where the I genuinely believe it's possible that the personal context powered Siri first appears after the iPhone 17 has shipped. Yeah. I think so. I think that that is an early next year thing. I think they talked about October for the first round in December for a second round. And then there's more coming. So I think they've got a plan to every couple of months ship a new set of features as part of their own plan. Possibly. But they haven't given us that information, right? So like, maybe I've gone a bit far in there, but like, I could imagine we get up towards WWDC time before even that begins to start before we get everything. I think everything that they've announced at WWDC will ship before WWDC next year. And I think probably a lot, most of it will ship. But nevertheless. Probably by like March. Take out my weird timeline because we're going down a road that we don't need to. It is really peculiar. Like odd in terms of Apple's marketing to so heavily promote features that we don't even have a date for. Like a lot of the ads that they're showing for like the iPhone 16 or whatever, it was like that one of the people in a train station never really using Apple intelligence and like only one of the demos was going to be any of those features available that we know of in the next couple of months and in October. I just think that's really, I don't know, it was just, it was interesting and a little strange. But I guess that's just the position they found themselves in and that's just the way it's going to be for this for this cycle. And then the dragging, like, I think, I think part of my feeling about this event, which was really weird, which was how much they were talking about things we either already knew about, which I understand that happens always, but also like small updates to existing products. Yeah, I have a theory about this, but you're right. They did a whole section about the Apple Watch Ultra 2, which is not new. They did a new color and a new bands. They did a whole thing about the AirPods Pro 2, which is a new software feature, but not new hardware. And they also spent time talking about that product and what it already does as well as adding on those new interesting things. Right. Well, they, they extolled the virtues of the features that they added to the AirPods Pro last year, but are going to now be in the AirPods and they talked about them again too. And then, of course, the AirPods Max, which is very weird because they acted really in that section. They acted like it was new and it's basically not other than like very, some very minor changes. It's all this time has passed and there's very little that's new about it. So I agree it's always going to be a challenge. I think my counter would be that they wanted to place these products in the context. Like, I think it's really good that they mentioned the AirPods Pro because not only do they have an announcement, which is the hearing aid stuff, which is very interesting, but also that way you can see the whole stretch of the AirPods product line. And I think that it gets weird when you don't talk about one of the key parts of the product line, in fact, the most popular part. So putting it in that context I get, but I can also get that if you're looking for the new, they had a lot of the old, the thing that I noticed was the vagueness. There's a lot of vagueness in these announcements. As if they weren't sure, like some of it was as if they weren't sure. I mean, I'm sure they record maybe alternate versions just in case things change, but it felt like they were either not sure or they were not willing to put a definitive item on it when they built the video. So the one that really struck me, I mean, first off, they didn't mention watch sizes. They didn't, they didn't, they didn't say here are the names of the millimeters of the two sizes. They never referenced there were two at all. There were two. Yeah. It's somebody to come up and say, did they eliminate the smaller watch? And it's like, well, no, they're both right here in front of us, but, but it was a real question. It wasn't. What are they doing? I could reload the newsroom after the event to find out there was a small one. It was really, really weird. And the one that I thought that I noticed that I thought was odd is while making superlative claims, the longest iPhone battery life ever, they didn't say what the battery life was. Yeah. That's wild, right? Yeah. Like it's the longest ever. It's the best ever. And that drum roll. And that is. Huge jumps. Like, okay, well, what are you going to tell us? No. Okay, then. Fair enough. I mean, we'll get into that because I've done the, I've done the digging. So I have numbers for you later on in the episode, but they are significant. So it's like, usually you say something like this, like 10 minutes more. I mean, like, they, and again, it was like, I think, I don't know even though if they gave them, they didn't really talk about measurements of any kind, like the weight of the watches and all this kind of stuff. Like, just this, I said, they get like 10% I think they gave on some of those. Biggest watch display ever. It was on. Yeah. I thought like for a, for a presentation that included a discussion of improved memory bandwidth, it was interesting that a lot of things they did, they did say 9.7 millimeters for the thinness of it. So they did throw that in there, but a lot of the stuff was sort of like, oh, it's the biggest ever. It's the thinnest ever. It's the longest ever with no detail, which I just found very weird for a video where you could boast about the detail and instead they're like, man, you know, look it up on the internet. Detail. Yeah, I guess so. This episode is brought to you by Oni Pizza Ovens, Oni is the world's number one pizza oven company letting you make restaurant quality pizza in your very own home. Oni Pizza Ovens can reach up to 950 degrees Fahrenheit, cooking pizza in as little as 60 seconds. The high temperature that Oni oven will achieve is what makes the pizza that you'll cook in an Oni Pizza oven stand out from what you'll cook in a regular home oven. They're also incredibly quick to heat up. 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But both of these phones, Apple references being designed, ground up for Apple Intelligence, which is a great way of saying, "We didn't know we were going to be doing this when we were designing the last one." And with that comes the A18, which is very powerful in a bunch of ways. Yes, it's very much in the generation of the M4. It's the second generation three nanometer process and the way they describe, you know, they're using the M4 cores, and I mean, it is the phone version of the M4. Yeah. The colors. Now, you can tell me about this. From the image on the website, they look incredibly saturated. We have ultramarine, teal, pink, and white and black. How did they look? I can't really comment on pink because I'm bad at pink. You know this about me. I can comment on ultramarine and teal, and they look great. That ultramarine is this blue. It's sick. It's great. It looks so good. I love it. Yeah. It's beautiful. The ultramarine is great. And the teal, you know, if you like something that's more green, they got it for you. They got it. They got a bluey and a greeny and then apparently a pinky, but again, not my best, and then a white and black. It looks very, very good pink. It looks like, honestly, it looks like Barbie pink, right? Like that very, very bright, hot pink is how it looks. It also, I think, looks really good. These colors, once again, they all look really good. Real colors are back on the iPhone after a little bit of an absence. Of course, not in the pro models at all, really, but here they are, and that ultramarine is a winner. It's really good. And on Apple's website with each of the colors, they have a home screen tent that we'll pay for that matches. I'm sure they do. I doesn't look good. Sorry. I'm sorry. It just doesn't. In my opinion, it doesn't look very good. So the capture button is now camera control. Camera control. Take a little bit to settle in. I am assuming you have used the camera control. Have I ever? I have. Tell me what it's all about. Because I am genuinely very excited about this. Okay. Camera control. Camera control. So first off, it's like the little sapphire button, and then it's got sensors under it. And then when they make their case, which, by the way, they detail the cases and it was, which one is missing? Yeah. Fine. Woven is gone. It's gone. But the other ones are still there. So they've got a clear case and the silicon case, and they actually have a thing where they're doing the electrical conductive kind of bridging in a sapphire top. And like, so it's non-trivial to get this thing to be compatible with cases, but they did it. I mean, tell me a picture something pretty real quick, right? So we were talking about who spoke about before, right? Fine, more of them. If that was going to go, what were they going to do to replace it? I mean, they actually have some other options. Beats are making cases now, Jason, don't you? Maybe didn't know this. There is on the Apple Store a polycarbonate Beats case, which is interesting. How's your sound? Does it turn out the bass? They also have some other cases from like some of their other third party suppliers that just have a cut out in them, which is unfortunate. Yeah. So they're thinking about getting rid of the fine woven case, right, and part of the problem is, yeah, but we're going to lose the high-end case market. We're like, well, this year, we're making the only cases anyone's going to want to use because nobody wants to deal with the hole in the side of the phone. And I don't know how well third party manufacturers will be able to produce something that works for this. I think that's going to be fascinating to see. But I think, first of all-- It is going to be interesting to watch. It's not going to be so much of an issue because everyone's going to want the silicone cases so it will work best with the camera control. So the way camera control works, it does take a little getting used to, but it is kind of delightfully tactile. So you put your finger on it, and if your phone's not unlocked and you press it, it opens to the camera. And then the way it works is you put a little bit of pressure on it and it will focus. If you leave your finger on it, not double tap, you leave your finger on it and you put two little pulses of pressure. It brings up a little menu up there of other items that you can change by here. And you can scroll back and forth between them. Whichever one you pick, then you can slide your finger back and forth to scroll. So if you have your camera up and it's set to zoom, then when you slide your finger back and forth on the camera control, it will zoom in and out. You can also, with your finger staying on it, do a sort of squeeze, squeeze, a little double squeeze, and then it brings up all the different things you can set. And so you can swipe over to photographic styles, and then you push down a little bit, and now you're in the photographic styles. And now you swipe through various styles, and they're visible. None of this is taking a picture, though, because take a picture, you've got to push down all the way, and it's an actual, like, the button depresses. So there's haptics on your swipes and stuff, but then you push down and you can feel it. It is a button being pushed down, and that's when your picture gets taken. And I think if you push and hold, it does video, grabs video. Yeah. So you basically have to learn a little bit about, like, one of the things that I found is that I wanted to double tap, and that's not how it works. You leave your finger on it, and you do that sort of essentially halfway down gesture. You do the pressure on it twice, and that allows you to navigate through the menu if you want to do that. But in practice, I think people will get, like, the thing that really matters to them, and that'll be the default, and so you'll bring it up and you'll be able to swipe left and right to do whatever exposure or styles or whatever, and then you squeeze, and the button, you know, the shutter goes off, and that's it. And that's the whole point of it is it's a dedicated control. I had a bunch of people ask, "What about, like, doing something else with it?" I don't know, I did not get an answer to that question. What I would say is the strong implication I got is that this is a per app API, so that, like, other camera apps will also be able to use it. But I don't think-- Yeah. There is some documentation for camera control on the developer website now, and it is talking about purely for being for camera apps. For camera apps, yes. But you can do whatever you want by and large within that, right? So they showed Snapchat, they had Kino too, so they had two-third party apps, and they were using different features from their applications, like I think with Snapchat, you could choose who's just going to be sent to, which is an amazing use of this thing, where you have almost the wheels set the settings on a camera. This is photo video, I was like, "Oh, this is my friends, this is the--" Yeah. I just think this is great you are. I mean, there is a lot of complexity within that button, but I actually think that's great. Because, as you said, for most of the time, you're not going to need to worry about it, but you always have the ability to change any settings that you want just by tapping and swiping on the button, and you see it right in front of you and suddenly the new camera app, I think it's really cool. And I don't know what I would say about people asking, "What about automating it or controlling it in some other way?" Well what's really happened here, and you can see it in their demonstrations, is the action button is no longer a camera button. It's whatever you want it to be, right? So if you want a definable button, you have it, it's the action button. The camera control is for the camera, and that's how they designed it. Now in the long run, we'll Apple let other apps do it. I could see scenarios where having a little slidey thing on the side might be useful in other apps. Maybe, I don't know what their philosophy is going to be about. No, it's always about the camera. This should be for camera stuff, I think. But that's what I think. I think it makes sense to just have this be for camera stuff. Because you're going to get in a scenario where a mastodon app's going to want you swiping up and down. You know, there's a nicety in that, but I think for a focused button on the experience of taking photos, which is one of the most important things that we do on our phones, I think it makes a lot of sense. And then, of course, they also have the other feature. Well, we'll talk about that when we get to the pro, because I think that's a pro-only feature. The humane killing thing, but we'll get to that in a bit. The camera layout for the iPhone 16 has changed to the vertical. They've added the 48 megapixel, they're calling it fusion camera now. I think that's new. I don't remember it, but there's a 48 megapixel camera that is on the iPhone 16. And it enables the kind of zoom in for the 12 megapixel 2x zoom, right? Because it doesn't have a telephone or lens. And they've added a 12 megapixel ultra-wide, which enables macro on that device. So it's very much like the last generation iPhone kind of tack here, where you've got the 48 megapixel camera, where it'll shoot a 24 that's based on a composite of the 12 and the 48, the bend pixels, but also the full. And then they put it all together and make that 24 megapixel thing. This is what they introduced, I think, last year on the pro-phone. And then they've got the 12 megapixel ultra-wide, very much like what I think the pro-phone had last year as well. So it's great. I mean, honestly, it's a really great update to get that in the base phone. I just can say, sorry, the Discord is freaking out, because I said, "You mean, killer?" Because I meant like humane AI pin, killing feature, that those two words together seem to freak everyone is. It's the humane killer. Yes, they'll feel no pain when they kill, but with your iPhone. It's like the thing on the future, right, with the box that Banda gets into. Yeah, and the answer is that that is not a pro feature. That's just a feature. And it's unclear. It's a feature that doesn't exist yet, but it's this visual intelligence feature where I think you hold your camera app up to something and then you press and hold on the button. No, from the looks, you can press and hold the button. Okay. And that brings up a non-saving camera that's just going to detect and run an AI analysis. Yes, and you point your, it's called visual intelligence. You point your phone at things that you want to tell you more about. So like they do a dog and it's like that doesn't make sense, but like, you know, a poster and it can save it. Like what is building that kind of thing. And so it is that like the thing that was always going to come for these devices, like the rabbit and the humane AI pin because built into the phone, why do we need a device for this stuff? That's kind of like the thing and it's actually ended up happening. But yeah, it seems like you can correct me if I'm wrong. If you want to open the camera app with the camera control, you press it once, right? And then that opens the camera app. So this is, if you press and hold, then it will take you to visual intelligence. Yes. Okay. Makes sense. Yeah, you could do spatial capture now for Vision Pro because the stack the right way, the lenses. Yes. And they've added macro to the ultra wide, which they need to do if they're going 48 megapixel on the lens, because it changes the distance that you can be to actually be able to focus on an image. Right. So that's that the bigger battery. So it's 22 and 27 or 22 or 27 hours of video playback can sit wherever you get in the regular or the plus. So regular is 22, plus is 27. They use video playback as like the biggest one because it's got the biggest numbers. That is two hours more for the iPhone 16, one hour more for the iPhone 16 plus. Okay. So that's pretty good. It's good because any is any amount of hours is always good, right? Like in an iPhone, a lot of Apple's products, they don't, they, they solve for other things, right? They'll like make a product thinner and they keep the battery the same. They did that for the Apple Watch. They done it for iPads forever. You know, laptops are all day battery life. I'm happy that they continue to make decisions that make the iPhone last longer. So like these iPhones, you know, in the pros, the pros who got a little bit heavier in part because of the battery in part because they're a little bit bigger. But I like that they will make different decisions for how the phones will work so they can add bigger batteries to them because it is one of the most important things for the usage of our devices, being able to use them. And the phone still starts 799 and 899 and Kayan Dross's line, which I loved, which is that the iPhone holds its value more than other smartphones, which I'm sure is true, but is still just very funny anyway. And I'm sure you appreciated the intense focus on going to the Apple store to talk to one of our people who can help you with a trade in and they really know what they're talking about. That was very funny and they continue to press that stuff. Mm hmm. This episode is brought to you by Delete Me. Have you ever wondered how much of your personal data is available on the internet? It's an uncomfortable thing to think about. Your private information could be out there and there are data brokers. They make this their business to collect and sell people's data. But the good thing is we have a right to stay private, protect our privacy and get that information removed from data brokers. But how would you do it? Do you know all the data brokers? How would you find them? This is where Delete Me comes in. Delete Me is a subscription service that removes your personal information from the largest people search databases on the web. 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But they have the power, right? They have the skills to design different chips for different models and then reuse them later. I'd imagine that A18 will go in a future Apple TV or something, but the A18 Pro specifically for the higher-end model allows them to differentiate in a bunch of ways. And that's great. It also has some of the like advanced media video and codes and stuff like that on this chip to help for a lot of the different video processing and stuff that they have. Yeah. And again, when they talk about like, next-gen machine learning accelerators in the CPU cores, that is an M4 feature, right? Yeah. Faster ray tracing, you know, they say our latest core, that is that they mean the M4. So I don't know how much of the M4 is in the A18, but the A18 Pro, there's a lot of M4 in there. So the rails of the phones are still made of titanium. There was some rumors that they were going to get glossy, but it looks like it's still matte, but maybe a little bit different. Yeah. Hard to say. Okay. I had brief amounts of time with them and near them to say, but yeah. And we have black, white, natural and desert titanium, which looks kind of gold. Desert titanium happened. It turns out. Did you get a sense for that color? Like, what? I didn't get much of a sense for that color again, not my strength, but I only got to see the stack of pro phones from a distance, but I don't know. And it's weird, right? Because it's sort of like more goldy on the band, and then it's more tan on the back. Mm-hmm. Okay. So I'm trying to make a decision here. I think the blue one last year, and that one's gone. Yeah, bye-bye. Bye-bye, blue. But you can get there's like a black, black one, right? Like it's like dark. Looks nice. Yeah. Yeah. So maybe you'll get that one. I was thinking natural, then I was thinking, well, when I, when I heard it was gold, like when the room was gold, like, yeah, I want gold. But now I was like, I'll go back to natural, and then I've seen some more images. The desert titanium, and I might just do it. We'll see. It's a larger on the profile, 6.3 inches in the Pro, and 6.9 inches in the Pro Max. They have the thinnest ever borders on an Apple device is what Greg does. Yes, to avoid product bloat, they said. Product bloat. Really? Interesting. I think that's what he said. I swear. Boop. I don't know. I think he meant the phones that he needed to get too big, I think, right? Yeah. It's a little bit bigger. Right. So the screens are bigger, but they made the borders the thinnest ever on any product, which I think was to avoid product bloat. I think that's what Jaws said. I don't know. Product bloat, I would think, would mean having too many products, not that one product is getting too big. I don't know. Maybe that's somebody said, I couldn't understand what he said, and I had to run it back in my mind and figure that that was probably what he said. The point being they did get a little bit bigger, but the, but the borders got smaller, which means they didn't get as much bigger as they could have gotten given how much the screen expanded. You know, it's fine. We got the thing. So the thing I was most hoping for happened, which is a new 48 megapixel ultra wide camera. Product growth. We have a transcript here. Product growth. I don't, I don't know if that's an accurate transcript, honestly. Some Apple's transcript from the podcast app. Yeah. I mean, did they upload that or did they just have their, their algorithm to the transcript? I think I can get it from YouTube because they did up, they did do on YouTube because they labeled all the speakers. I mean, I would say product growth is better than product bloat in one way, but it also doesn't like we prevent it. We minimize the growth of the product, the growth. Our product grew by half by a millimeter this year. Are they peas? Are they up? Is it a pumpkin? It's a weird phrase. Either way. I don't care. I kind of like bloat. I'm going to go with bloat. You should. Do you know? Just live your most life. Bloat it out. Bloat it out. Fight. Fight product bloat. That's what I say. Well, you'd be fighting product growth. Wouldn't you? Because you'd be fighting product growth. Yeah. I guess I guess they said product growth. What I'm saying is that's a weird phrase. I don't like it. Either way. Yes, I am officially changing it in my notes to growth, but it doesn't matter. That is also weird. Product growth. Like, we over wadded the iPhone this year and it got a little too big. Come on. Maybe it's a joke, right? Because product growth would be a good thing, right? Because you want the products to grow any. This is not important. For a megapixel ultra-wide camera, I'm excited about this because my hope is that now when I take pictures of things that are close to me, they don't look bad. And I like to take pictures of things that are close to me. They're close to you and you want them to look good. That's why you take pictures of them. And they're close to me. So the things that are closest to me, I want to look good. And five times telephoto camera, tetraprism is on both phones. Tetraprism finally made it to the regular one and not just the big one, which is a person who doesn't want a big phone. I think that's wonderful. I was also really excited to see photographic styles. All right. Yeah, they, okay, so photographic styles, I got, there's a lot here. Photographic styles is a thing that Apple introduced a few years ago. And the idea was that they were going to let you reach down into the camera pipeline, like way back down in the camera pipeline with presets that would change what your photos looked like. And this was a thing that fundamentally changed what got captured or what was processed after it was captured. Final result would be different and you couldn't just like, it wasn't just like a filter. It was actually changing how the data was processed when it was on the sensor and coming up through the pipeline. And that after it was done, you can't go back because that data was processed and is done now. You can edit the photo, but the photo will be based on the original, which is coming out of photographic styles. Separately, Apple has a thing for post processing that is filters and you've always been able to, or for years now you've been able to do that where you can go into the photos app and choose edit and choose one of a filter and apply a filter. What they've done this year is not either of those things. The new photographic styles on these 16 models are different. And the difference is that it's still reaching down into the base of the pipeline. But what's actually happening is more meta information about your photo is being saved to the file, which is weird, right? So they're saving some more fundamental information about your picture when you take it, which means that if you take, so for example, this is a great example that I got from the product manager for photos today, you could take a picture with the black and white photographic style on these new models and say, I regret the black and white choice. I want it in color and you can change the style after the fact and the color is restored. Amazing. Because the color is there, so all that information is kind of riding along with your photo and makes the photo size that she said a little bit bigger, but what it means is they have the ability to go back. And instead of applying an effect to whatever has been processed, you can actually go back down into the pipeline a little bit and reprocess it based on a different selection and it'll look different. Plus, it's doing things where they're able to do some more sophisticated things in terms of like, you know, enhance these colors and drop these colors out. And there's a UI with a little box, move around to change it to edit, which is also really interesting. And on top of all of that, the reason I mentioned filters earlier is that on these phones in the photos app, the filters are gone, they're gone. You use photographic styles instead, which they think are superior because they're able to use more base data on the photos. So it's a, as somebody who's written a lot about the photos app and about the camera app, this is a big change where they have decided to build a much. It's just, it's just a, so, so basically they're like, we like photographic styles, but what if you have regrets later and the answer is, we're going to just write more data to the file that is not visible, but is there so that we could pick it up later and regenerate the file based on different styles. It's wild. I think it's fantastic because I see it as like they, when they came up with this thing at first, they didn't have the capability to do it. So it was like, we've come up with this feature, this is how it's going to work. And then over time through, you know, silicon changes and just various engineering changes, they've been able to get it to the point where they've gotten it here. Because you say, right? Like it's, that is, is much more complicated and probably takes a lot more processing power to be able to swap them around this way. And you say, also they need to get into a point where the phones can handle this slight image increase, like size increase. Yeah. But whatever it took, I love this because keeping my photographic styles is part of the pipeline, which means if you have a style set, you see it. When you're previewing before you shoot, you're seeing it in the style that it comes out. Oh, I didn't mention one of the things that you can do with the photo thing that is named. I can never remember the camera control is there's a, there's a gesture where you, you, I think it's, I think it's you press down partially and hold where the like the UI kind of drops away. So you sort of just see the picture, which is nice. And that's really great with photographic styles. And you can also dial in with the, with a photo control. You can actually, one of the settings is sort of like swiping through a bunch of different photographic styles to find which one you want to go. But if you regret it later, just edit it and turn it into something different. Love it. Yeah. Similarly, something I quite liked. If you take 4K, 120 frame video, you can choose after the fact to adjust the video speed. If you adjust the playback speed, yeah, you can play back 24 30 60 or 120, just look pretty cool. I like that. 4K 120. Very impressive. They had that very funny bit where they had the cops from the cop show from the ad that they did about about, what was it, what's that mode called cinematic mode? Yeah. And so that this time they're running away from explosions and, and they're in slow motion and they're having a conversation about why are we running away. I also enjoyed the video of the weekend music video where they made, they made the weekend sing a song at four times the speed so that they could shoot it. I thought it was so funny. I wish it was a very throw away thing, but it's like, yeah, you just go to sing faster. Yeah. And I was just thinking that must be hilarious to watch in real time where he's singing the song at 4X. He had to, he had to listen, he had to learn his song at a four time speed. Yes. Yes. I suffered for his own. I want the behind the scenes footage of hearing him do that. I know. I know. Absolutely. But I did like, I like the humor in the, in the 4K 120 thing where they, the best part is like, don't look back. It ruins it. Yeah. It's just, it's good. They're playing with the tropes, but, but 4K 120 is amazing. I think that is a very impressive achievement to get 120 frames at 4K in this phone. So that's good too. And also you can do spatial audio capture with video now. With mixing, that's the part that I thought was wild is that they've got different presets there where they're, where they're able to sort of say, only show what's on camera or have it be like they're in a studio or have it be, you know, cinematic or just have it be the sort of standard, they're doing a lot of stuff with that, the underpinnings of their whole spatial audio thing to capture that audio. Pretty cool. Much bigger battery increases on this four hours across the board, huh? Yes. 27 and 33 respectively for the Pro and Pro Max. The Pro Max as always is the biggest battery they've ever had on an iPhone. The big boy. But yeah, 33 hours of video playback on the Pro Max 27 on the Pro, four hours respectively for each. So pretty cool. And I tell you, Jason, feeling real good about my decision to go down, I think I'm going to do it. You think you're going to do it? I think I'm going to do it. The last question that I wanted today was what was the battery life situation going to be like? And I feel good with what they've come out with, where I'll lose a little bit, but not that much from the coming from, I think it's like an hour is what I would lose. I think because Apple has this cool feature on the website now, where you can, on the actual product page, you can kind of, in the battery life section, you could just choose like what phone do you want to compare this with. They have this for like speeds and battery and stuff like that, just like a drop down. And so if I compare it to the iPhone 15 Pro Max, it's two less hours on the iPhone 16 Pro. And I think I can live with that. It's not too bad. So that was the last question that I wanted answered. But yeah, I think I'm going to do that. I think I'm going to do a 16 Pro desert titanium. I think it's going to be my fun choices here. Well, the 16 Pro is much larger than the iPhone 6 Plus was 10 years ago. And that's when you were going into Plus Club. You know, on the school, I said that's a long way. And I actually know, wait, I'm sure you do know this. I don't know if it would be surprising to hear now. Do you want to know what other phone is bigger than the 6 Plus screen size? The iPhone mini screen was bigger than the iPhone 6 Plus's screen. Plus Club. Isn't that incredible? Well, diagonal, right? It was the same size. It was the same size, of course it was. They're very similar products. Isn't that incredible though? The Plus. Yeah. It's like 5.4 to 5.5. Let's see how it looks. Let's see how it looks. Basically the same. But yeah, I'm, you know, I think, here's the thing. I think potentially these phones are getting, they're getting, they're really big. That's like really, really big. And I think a 6.3 inch screen is going to be good for me. 6.9 inches is big. It's 7 inch phone. 7 inch phone. Yeah, it's maybe more than I need. And I think I want to give it a go this year because I think I think they'll enjoy a change. And I'm actually overall like the package is interesting to me. But a lot of the camera stuff like the camera package this year, I'm excited about because they've added in something that I was hoping for like the camera control I think is a really cool idea. They've given me what I wanted in the 48 megapixel ultra wide and then they surprised me with the photographic styles changes which I'm really excited about because I love that feature. And so I'm pleased to see it getting some more love. A few other notes here. They had a new version of voice memos that allows you to do multi-track with cancellation of the other tracks. So it all sounds wonderful, but that was in there. And you might think, well, that seems silly. But as they pointed out quite rightly, like musicians do their demos and voice memos sometimes. Like that's there. It's with them and they have something they need to get down and they use voice memos. My underscore reminded me, do you remember that for a little while Apple made a music focus version of voice memos, which I got rid of called music memos? For the same reason, for the same reason they're trying to get to give more features to the people who use that functionality. And sometimes they're just you're out and about and you got to sing your song or whatever. And that's just they don't do this for no reason. They do this because these are the stories that they hear from people. And I also wanted to mention the Chi-2 support and a new MagSafe charger. Oh, I'm so upset about that. I don't want to replace them. I have so many. Is it not? I think it's not. I think it's backward compatible with old MagSafe chargers. Yeah. But I now know that I have a MagSafe charger that is potentially available to me, which is twice as fast. Yes. Well, I'm just going to have to live with that. Yeah, I think I'll be fine. I think I can live with it, but I'm still sad about it. Hmm. But yeah, support for Chi-2. Chi-2. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Backblaze. Backblaze are the folks that look after your digital data with their unlimited computer backup for Mac OS and Windows for just $99 a year. So you can protect all your data automatically, wherever having to think about it. And it's not just for personal use. Backblaze is great for businesses. You can protect the whole team's data through a centrally managed administrative console. It's easy to deploy across multiple workstations with silent and link-based deployment options. 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And so I was able to open the Backblaze app. I can look into my backup, get the file that I need and I can share it or I can use it on my iOS device or something like that. It's amazing. You can access your data from anywhere in the world. It is a super handy feature. I absolutely love Backblaze and I cannot recommend enough that you use it yourself. Backblaze offers multiple restore options, including rapid recovery via USB hard drives, shipped to you in the event of catastrophic data loss around somewhere, or go old school and restore, buy mail for a refundable fee, a hard drive with all of your data actually on it, shipped directly to your door. Visit Backblaze.com/upgrade so they know where you came from and will continue to support the show. They've restored over 55 billion files for their customers. Do not be that person that forgot to backup your important files. Receive a fully featured no risk free trial at Backblaze.com/upgrade. Go there now, have a play around, poke around, start protecting yourself from a data disaster. Don't put it off, start today, Backblaze.com/upgrade. Thanks to Backblaze for their support of this show and all of Relay. Let's talk about the Apple Watch series 10, Nintendo Watch itself, a thinnest Apple Watch ever, lightest Apple Watch. Biggest display. Biggest display. On any watch. On any watch. It's a name, it's a name. Bigger than the Ultra 2. Isn't that incredible? That is actually, it's bigger now. It's wild. The watches themselves aren't bigger, but the screen is bigger. Cultures are all bulky and big and stuff. They've got a lot of stuff going on. Now, we mentioned this earlier, but they just did a really weird job of showing lots of this product because they just refused to talk about how big it was and refused to talk about the fact that there was a small one. It was really... 9.7 millimeters thin, that's fine. What I found is, it seems to me that a lot of their thinnest feels like it came out of the bulge of the sensor array on the bottom. I think they slimmed that down, I don't think it's as bulgy as it was. There's a really good graphic on their website where you get those two images and you can swipe over one or the other, you see this all the time and it shows you a difference between two images. You notice that you see this on the web. They have this for the Apple Watch, so you can go from Series 9 and Series 10 and you can see the comparison. And yes, it looks like, as you said, the majority of it is coming from the back. I just did that in reality where I had my mine and the one on the thing and I held them up. I looked at them, but yeah, it seems like, which we don't think of, because my first glance at it, I thought, does this look thinner? Because I was thinking about the aluminum body of the watch, but what they've done is not only have they re-engineered the bottom so that the metal frame goes all the way around now, but I think the dome of the sensor also feels like it's a little bit less. And the screen is a little bit, but it's the actual back that the dome is on that seems to have gone really thin. And then the body is a bit thinner. Yeah, you're talking about incredibly detailed changes, right? There's very tiny changes that they make to enable, like they said, and I thought this was really a good point, that 10% thinner than the Series 9, when you're talking about such a tiny object to get 10% out of it, is actually kind of impressive. So yeah, it's bigger, but thinner, and I mean, we'll see what people feel. It looked nice. Having a screen that large seems like it would be a real treat. They did a lot of re-engineering. The speaker grills look totally different. You can play media back through the speaker now, which is interesting. Really be annoying to people. But if you need to play a podcast or your Apple Watch, you could do it. Yeah, I don't really know if that's the thing that you need to do, honestly. You got it, I suppose. It's there. If you need to. This is a very, just this Apple Watch in general is just very interesting to me, like the decisions they made and the decisions they didn't, like it still uses the same charging mechanism, it still uses the same band connection. These are just interesting things. They've decided they wanted to change the way the watch looks and feels, but it's still rounded edges. There's a lot of choices that went into this, which is intriguing. The display, it's the first wide-angle OLED that Apple has made, so it's nicer to look at from multiple angles. So while this screen does not get as bright as the Apple Watch Ultra, which sits 2,000 bits compared to 3,000 nits, the Apple Watch Series 10 is according to Apple, 40% bright and when viewed at an angle. So we're in this weird spot with the Apple Watch Series 10 and the Apple Watch Ultra 2 that we get in sometimes with Apple products, where the new one is better than the previous best one, but it's not the quote unquote most expensive or quote unquote best. And we're in that spot now with this, which is really interesting. Well, I'm not sure the Ultra, and they're trying to define the Ultra as rugged and for sports and stuff. And it's a different style, but the Ultra, I would say the Ultra is not a pro in the sense that it always has to be the best, which is good, because although we got a long thing about the Ultra in this presentation, it's just the Ultra 2. They didn't update it this year, but this Series 10 really got a boost and as somebody who does not have an Ultra, I look at this Series 10 announcement and I think that's really interesting since I'm a couple of years back. And I have a black titanium, brushed titanium model, and so they've got the jet black aluminum, they're shiny polished aluminum one. They've also got that dark slate gray titanium, they brought titanium back and banished stainless this time. Yes. So the full one looks really good jet black aluminum also rose gold and silver aluminium, but they're not polished. They're just regular aluminium. Yeah. Then titanium, we have natural gold, slate, and silver, and there's also a polished silver Hermes only version of the titanium. Why not? I saw that gold titanium, Jason, and did something to me, and I miss so much. I polished gold Apple watch. Oh, you're going to go all, are you going to be desert gold mic now? I can't do it. Battery. I don't think I could go back because you because you live the Ultra so much. Yep. I love my favorite thing. It's no gold ultra. Black Ultra looks good too. I got to say, black ultra looks really good. It looked so okay. Apple ultra too is now in black. Like that. Oh, it's really weird, really weird, but it looked fantastic. Black and orange. Man, that looked good. That looks good. I talked. That's my San Francisco Giants colors right there and yours too, and that the new Milanese, I didn't see it, but a friend of the show, John Gruber saw it, and he told me he felt like it was like made a plastic or something, only just in the sense that he felt he could not believe how light the titanium Milanese loop was, and I can believe that. And the clasp, I saw the clasp on that one, and it's serious, like it's a, it's not accidentally falling off. Yeah. You like, click it on. Yes. Serious is the way to put that. I think it's a bit, is a bit much, but you know. It's ultra. It's ultra. And it's just doing what it should be doing. They still have the Milanese, you can go get it with a magnetic, which I love, and it's beautiful, and it's very nice to adjust. If this thing is like your scuba diving, you don't want your watch to come home. They said it was for scuba. Yeah. That's good. Sounds good. Sounds good. Anyway, I am tempted this year, since this is also not my iPhone upgrade year for my personal phone necessarily, although I can always do that if I want, but, but the, the new watch is very tempting to me. I'm, I'm, I'm incredibly tempted by the gold titanium, but I just, I don't know what, I don't know what to do because I don't, I know I'm not going to be on the ultra forever. I know that because I can see the trajectory now that the Apple watch is going to continue to improve and it's, it's going to be different to the ultra. Like, I know what you mean about like, it's the rugged one, but like there was, I, there was, I think there was still a question of like, but will this always also be the best one? Right. Like, yes, there was a possibility of that because it has been the best one, I think, for the last couple of years in its full sweeter features. But that is now changing and maybe I just need to let go of the amazing battery life. I'm disappointed that they yet to find a way to increase the battery life. And now, you know, I was talking earlier about what Apple prioritized and it seems like they are not interested in increasing the Apple watch's battery life because they made it thinner. Right. They didn't, if they would have not made it thinner, maybe they could have gotten another couple of hours of battery or something or maybe an hour about, who knows? Right. But that's, this is the route that they're going down. Um, but I was also pretty excited. You know me and my, my, uh, bug bear about Apple health features sleep, yeah, near detection. Real feature does not require an oxygen sensor is based entirely around the accelerometer. Uh, so you wear when you sleep and it figures out from that and they've, they've done, you know, they've scientifically validated this and they're getting regulatory approval and they're going to roll it out and it basically watches you for 30 days and then issues your report, uh, of moderate to severe sleep apnea, at which point they, uh, they suggest that you go talk to a doctor, right? Because they're not going to do anything more than that. But it's, it's to give you that warning sign. And I, what I thought was interesting and we got this a couple of times in this presentation. There, there was the, uh, because it's for the AirPods as well, the way they're phrasing it is we expect clearance from the FDA and other regulators soon. And then it will be available in, and for the sleep apnea detection was like 150 countries or something. Like how many countries even are there? So the, at least what they're saying, this is what they're saying is like, we, we expect this feature to be available worldwide. This isn't going to be one of those, you know, what they're saying is, this isn't going to be like Apple pay cash. Okay. It's not going to be like a one country or, or two countries, it's going to be everywhere. Google tells me there are 195 countries in the world. All right. Well, apologies to the 45 who are not going to get the sleep apnea detection, but, uh, anyway, so I, I, I like that because it's the, we don't have clearance yet, but we expect clearance from the FDA who we've mentioned by name and other regulators real soon for this. And you know, that's great. Cause the whole, one of, one of the great successes over the last 10 years of the Apple Watch has been as they highlight in their videos and they did again in the opening video today is it not only is, you know, calls for help when you fall, when you've been in a crash, things like that, but it's also, um, when you've got a, uh, a medical issue that can call it out for you and warn you about it and they've been able to do that with things like arrhythmia for a while now. And they're going to be able to do it with sleep apnea, which, I mean, they had, there's some great, uh, stats here, right? It's 80% of people have sleep apnea who have sleep apnea are undiagnosed. And, uh, and then similarly about the, the, um, the hearing protection, they're like even the people who know they've got hearing loss don't get treated. So, so this is part of Apple's, um, philosophy that they're trying to do and changing the world by improving people's health by providing them with information and then referring them to their healthcare providers. So this is, we saw two big, big ones of those. And this is what I want from them because yeah, when they are able to do something like this, they are able to affect change, which is like, if we're going to wear these devices, they should do these things for us too, right? They should make positive change to our lives. They should be able to help us out in scenarios where we otherwise wouldn't know we need it. But also I don't like, from a presentation perspective, kind of dancing around stuff. Like, I find that frustrating when it's like, we put this thing in there and maybe, you know, you might, I don't know, maybe, I don't know, don't worry about it. Like, I don't like that. Like, if you're going to tell me that this device can measure something, I want it to be impactful, just like you can find out your ball oxygen for fun or like, for no great reason that we can tell you you can use it. It's just not, I don't find that to be enticing. This is great, this is exactly what I want, because they did the work, they did the studies, and then they've done the work with the regulators, and they will do the work with the regulators because they believe in this, and they will be able to make serious change to people's lives. And like, that's what I want them to be doing. And like, I'm really happy that they've done that, and I'm very excited about this feature, because it's going to help people, and that's what they should be doing with all of these, different resources that they have at their disposal, so good work, Apple. They added a water temperature sensor and a depth sensor, like the Ultra has. And we already mentioned the Ultra 2, it's good for people who are active. Yeah, I thought it was interesting that their pitch is like, listing a bunch of sports, and it's like, oh, for cyclists, we have this, for swimmers, we have this. You know, we have a compass for this, for hikers, we've got all those things. And you know, I sat there thinking, how would I, if I, if I went to Stan, who was giving this pitch, and I was like, Stan, curling, what can you do for me? Well, I don't know. I think you'd have to do a lot of like machine learning based on the movements of like a curling delivery or a sweeping in order to properly measure it. I'm just saying, I would be very interested in figuring out how they could handle curling with the Apple Watch Ultra 2, if your risk got caught in between two curling stones, it would less likely to be broken. I guess I'm just thinking like, could they, in terms of workout, could they do some training so that they could measure like the speed of my delivery or things like that? I don't know if they can. I don't know. I don't know. Oh, I believe they could. I believe they could. I believe they could. With the accelerometer. I think they could. They just choose not to, but they could. All right. Apple, all right. Stop being such cowards. We can't. We just do the worst of curling. Just do it. Grow. So here's my interesting Apple Watch note that I wanted to mention, which is there's even a slide at the end there, a little bento slide for Apple Watch has the word intelligence on it. Somebody else is intelligence. I love it. I love it. What intelligence do you mean? Do you mean artificial intelligence? Well, no. Would you mean Apple intelligence, which is a brand name? No, what they really mean is machine learning stuff. So they're like, Hey, like on device Siri, because they're like, we have a neural engine in our package. Oh, does that do Apple intelligence? No, but it does on device Siri and it does crash detection. Here's the thing that's interesting. They want to talk about the neural engine and they want to talk about all the ways that they use machine learning as is classic Apple to do all sorts of things that are very impressive on the Apple Watch. What they can't talk about is Apple intelligence because they can't support it because it has too much too many onerous requirements. I this can't go on like it's it's early days they can get away with it this time, but they need a strategy and I'm thinking now they need a WWDC next year for how to get Apple intelligence features on the Apple Watch. Even if all it is is announcing a path where your Apple Watch talks to your iPhone and gets help. So that there is some stuff. So like I've seen people share this before that like notification summaries are on watch show us 11, okay, and like that's from your phone because it's sent from your phone, right? So like yeah, they're just sending some money, but I don't think and this is the thing is like I know you can do on device Siri and that's great, but it's not the new Siri. And and that's a and I don't think Apple Watch is going to be able to do Apple intelligence proper for a long time. So I feel like they need to have some sort of a system whether it's it's going to go out to the cloud to Apple's private cloud compute or whether it's going to talk to your phone, but we're in an awkward state right now where they want to talk about their machine learning stuff, but they can't they can't call it what they want to call it. So instead it's sort of like generic intelligence on Apple Watch and I get why I know it's early. I understand all of this, but at some point this is going to be a problem and they're going to need to address this in some way because what you don't want ultimately is if I have a phone with good Siri in a watch with bad Siri, you know, right? Like you don't want to you've got to square it up somehow. So they're going to have to they didn't tell that story today. I'm not surprised that was always the most likely option was don't talk about it. I did get tickled that they put up the thing that says intelligence one word because it does make you go, oh, you mean some not Apple intelligence is like, but not well, not the way you think, right? Like no, no, it's this is a different earlier form of intelligence, but at some point they got to deal with that. Yeah, I guess it's one of these things where maybe the combo of getting better at private cloud compute and also just the march of Moore's law and technology means that the Apple Watch might get there, but I agree with you that they need to have some kind of bridge until these points. Yeah, it feels just it feels like a long time before they could do something like on device Apple intelligence on an Apple Watch because especially because the Apple Watch doesn't have your personal context either really and their way your Apple Watch is going to check all your email and all of your calendar items and like you could get there, but that's a lot. And the Apple Watch has a buddy, which is the iPhone love buddy and also has access to the cloud if it's if it's online, if it's if it's on cellular, it has access to the cloud, they could do that. They're just going to have to come up with with a way and I feel this way about a lot of their other products too, is that short of of updating the Apple TV and the HomePod and all of those other things to support Apple intelligence, the way you do it is by offloading it to a device nearby that has that or sending it to the cloud, they're going to have to figure that out. We're at the beginning of year one, like it hasn't even shipped. So we've got time, but they have to have a solution, the beginning of next month. It starts next month, but they're going to need to come with a story here next year. I was sad that they showed off image playgrounds again. I was hoping. I was hoping. Yeah, I thought we were going to I mean, it goes quick, but I was I was hoping they were not going to. And do I have a emoji looked a little better, but still no good still look for the custom emoji? No, no, no, no, the memo, the emoji characters that you can make of your friends. Oh, yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I still think that that's a terrible station. They shouldn't go down there. But really the presentation was something like, you know, fun. Anyway, let's move on. I do have I do have a tidbit and this is going to make our friend in front of the show, Casey List said. But there's a new cleanup feature in Apple intelligence. Clean up is the feature where you can erase people in the background of your images and stuff, you know. Well, what I discovered today is if you do that on somebody's face, it pixelates their face. Yes, I've seen this online. So it's a quick way. If you're if you've got like a shot and you want to obscure the face of a person who's in it, you can just you literally edit and do cleanup and go, you know, with your finger over their face and they it pixelates it. The real clever, really smart little feature a few times and it's it's good, like it's fine. Like I had some pictures when we're at Disneyland in Paris and there's a picture of me in the dinner front of the castle. But as people in the background, they gone now, you know, it's like, it does the job. Like, no, it does no cleanup is a good feature cleanup works pretty well. But I think that the pixelating somebody's face, because you don't want them, you know, it's like, you don't want to share your kid's face in social media. I think that's pretty clever. Yeah. I think so. So really nice. So sorry to Casey. I know it's like a way to do it. Isn't it aggressive to do to a child like here's my child criminal, you know? Yeah. Well, you know, what you're going to do. What you're going to do. We put emoji on the face. What you can do. But maybe you shouldn't. Zach is just, it's thinking, yeah, yeah, whatever Zach is doing is not what in the current fields of cleanup do because they've added this thing in where it pixelates it. So, well, I mean, you know, these things maybe don't always work 100% of the time. I will put Zach, with your permission, I will put a screenshot of that in the show notes because oh man, man, oh man, that is clearly from a previous build, no, it works on the current builds. This feature does exist in the current build. It just does it. Well, whatever Zach did is the horror. Yeah. Something terrible happened. This is maybe something very bad happened because it's not good. You have to go look at this being the show notes, you can go look. It's bad. AirPods 4 is now two products. We have AirPods 4 and we have AirPods 4 with active noise cancellation. I'm going to say maybe not the best name. But remember, we were talking about like, how are they going to do this because there's like various kinds of like old AirPods and new AirPods and all that. And so what they decided to do that is to their credit is they're not going to sell, I guess, old AirPods anymore. They're going to sell AirPods 4, but there's two AirPods 4 and they're different. And so why are they both AirPods I don't understand why they're both so we have AirPods. So now the AirPods 4 and AirPods 5, why not just why don't you do that like why right? So it's AirPods 4 also AirPods 4 also AirPods Pro 2 also AirPods Max, which is the second, but it's not called a second. Yeah, it's great though. These announcements are great because what they did is they realized they want to have a more affordable AirPods. So they've got the 129 model and then they have a second AirPods 4 model that has active noise cancellation to this lower end design that doesn't have a little thing that little silicone tip that you stick in your ear and it has noise cancellation. How this is technically possible and I look forward to going. Okay, going. I mean, I could tell you why it's actually very similar to how AirPods Pro does it. And I should have stopped you last week when we were talking about this because the answer is there's a microphone in the AirPod. So the AirPod can hear what's coming from the outside and it cancels it. Yeah. That's how it works. No, I know. It's not as effective. It's not as effective because it's not using the physical clamp down to shut down all the stuff coming into your ear, but it can still cancel the sound that comes into your ear. Even if it's letting it in, right, it's two pieces of cancellation. Part of it is passive, which is you stick a thing in your ear and you can't hear as well. But the other is active, which is whatever sound does get through, it cancels. And so with this, you're going to have more noise leaking in, but it can aggressively try to cancel that noise that's leaking in. So we can do an okay job. We'll see how good a job it does. I'm sure it doesn't do as good a job as AirPods Pro. Because that's like, I know how it works, right? And I think maybe I have not done a good job of explaining my point, it's just like, I just don't know how effective it would be without creating the seal. And so I'm assuming it's better than I imagined it would be otherwise they wouldn't do it. That's a $50 question here, I guess, right? They wouldn't do it if it was bad. Yeah. And also they've done transparency mode, adaptive mode, conversational awareness. All that stuff. Right. Incredible, like and until they spoke about what they're adding to AirPods Pro 2, I was very much like, why do why AirPods Pro then? And it seems like they're maybe going to take AirPods Pro into a more health focused thing, I think going forward, which is interesting. Yeah. Plus I've got the silicone tips, so they're much more kind of like, they're definitely higher end and more processing power. And I think that that will be whenever they update them, that will be the case, they'll have more capabilities still. But the fact that they're doing a software update this fall with AirPods Pro that will turn them in because of the changes in some of the regulations, especially here in the US, they're going to turn them into hearing aids, basically. They're going to be capable of being hearing aids, which is a pretty cool feature. And we'll see how they, I mean, it's going to be interesting to see how the noise canceling version of AirPods for sound, how all of these sound compared to each other and what the strengths and weaknesses are. That will be something to watch because, but it's great because like 129, you get into the AirPods line and 179, you get noise cancellation and all those other fancy features. That's pretty cool. And if it works well, $180 is an incredible price for this product. The price of it works. Yeah. For sure. For sure. It only has to work kind of, you know? Yeah. I'm thinking maybe that these features, these hearing aid features aren't on the immediate roadmap for me because they specifically, there's more than 100 countries and regions, but they specifically call out the United States, Germany and Japan. And yeah, it's, to me, weird that they wouldn't put the UK in there if, because they always do, like not because we're special, but because Apple always puts the UK in. If the, you know, this is one of those cases, yeah, this is one of those cases where, and this was true in the US only, I think last year, that there's a question of what are, do you have to be like a medical company and make hearing aids with a prescription, or do you have the ability to do what they refer to here as the clinical grade over the counter hearing aid? And this was a change. And so in some countries, it's probably not available yet, but I would imagine maybe it's one of those things. Maybe it's one of those things. This is one of those things about Apple and the size of Apple and the appeal of Apple is Apple doing this product and having hearing aid functionality in a bunch of countries all around the world is going to push countries to change their laws about hearing aids. It's going to happen because I'm not saying every country will do it, but it will be a push to say, why aren't we doing this? Why have we prevented products like this from existing? And that's, I think that's really interesting that Apple really does have the ability to set the discourse about some of this stuff. I at least hope that I will get the, like, what seems enhanced hearing protection feature, which is just doing more reducing louder noises. That's actually the thing I personally care about the most, but then also being able to take a hearing test would be amazing. And I really want to be able to do that. I would be very interested to know. And again, this is what I was talking about earlier. You're making me wear, not making me. You're making these products that like I want to wear and use and like Apple really wants me to use them all the time. Why not also make it so I can see if my hearing is good, you know, like, I like that integration is good. And to make those integrations work very well, again, they need to go out and get regulatory approval. And I just appreciate that they're back in that in a big way this year with two big health initiatives. Like, I think that's fantastic. And the stats for this one are particularly stark, 80% of people have not had their hearing checked in the last five years or something like that. I don't know if I haven't had my hearing checked. I haven't had my hearing checked in the last five years and 75% of people who are diagnosed with hearing loss are untreated. They just, they don't know, they just go about their, well, no, but they've been diagnosed. They say, you have hearing loss. Like, all right. Diagnose. Thanks. Bye. Yeah. Okay. That's it. A lot of people don't like the idea. And I have this with members of my family. Yes. They don't want to wear a hearing aid. There's a stigma. There's a stigma to it. And you know what? That's actually one of the brilliant things about this is AirPods don't have that stigma attached to it. It's just like, oh, I need to hear you all put in my AirPods, which is the little video they showed, but there's something to that, right? It's really interesting. And also the fact that your profile, your profile goes along to your devices and is applied to music and TV and all those things too. Amazing. How about that? It's really smart. I think this is fantastic. Do you know what's fantastic? There are a lot of regions over 100, so almost half of the countries, as it turns out, will get this feature, but maybe not 50% less than the sleep apnea. Yeah. And if you know what's not great though, Jason, what's not great? AirPods Max. Hey, I was going to say you could buy three AirPods 4 with noise cancellation for the price of AirPods Max because it's still 549. All they change. There's some new colors. It has a USB C connector instead of a lightning connector. Woo-hoo. And support for personal spatial audio, which means that there are minor hardware changes in there. This is good because Apple... But it's not a rethink. Apple have freed me now, right? By doing this, I now know I need to get different over ear headphones. That's what I don't know because, look, before there's been... I've used them because I really like them and I like the way they time and my devices and I get all the benefits, but I want something that is more comfortable, easier to pack, and I can connect via USB C to my computer, like to get audio. And they gave me one of those, but I also thought that when they upgraded AirPods Max, I would get those because I would get adaptive transparency, conversational awareness, conversational awareness, would be most useful for me on AirPods Max. Indeed. I can't believe they are charging $550 for this product. I can't. And I agree. I did not even put the new chip in. Look, here's the argument. When it came out, people were like, "I can't believe it cost this." But now they just revved it. It's still behind everything else. The price hasn't changed. It's really, it's quite a thing. This is quite a thing. And the funny thing is, when they intro'd it, they said people love AirPods Max. It's like, they do. They do. I've talked to people who have AirPods Max. In spite of everything, they do like them. But not having any of those nice new AirPods features, just literally. And this is Mark Gurman reported this. And he was right, which is, they're going to update AirPods Max and it's not going to be anything. It's going to be like USB-C. And yeah, I guess so. Here we are. I'm disappointed. I'm really disappointed about this because this is a product that I was hoping to get more out of. And I've got good use out of my AirPods Max. But I think it's time to move on probably to those Sony's. My wife has the Sony ones that everybody likes and she loves them. So that's probably going to be where I go. But I'm going to miss the features, right? I love the feature set of the AirPods line and the AirPods Max has a lot of that. Like I really like the switching between devices. I really like the way that the buttons work and feel all that kind of stuff. But I guess I'm going to have to start doing some research and decide what do I want to move to, because I'm just as pumped as one and I really am very frustrating. So that was the September event. I would say, yeah, overall, this was a an interesting event. I think the way in which they spoke about stuff is interesting. There's a couple of things that disappointed me. There's a couple of things that intrigued me and there's a couple of things that I'm super excited about and that is about as good as I can hope for from a September event, I think. Because so much of it is leaked beforehand. You know? What's your overall feeling on this one? You know, iPhone event is going to be rolling the ball forward a little bit. That's where we are. We have not yet. Next year might be a year where there are some major new kind of like innovations on the iPhone. This is the iPhone is the story and the iPhone is pushing everything ahead, getting things to run with Apple intelligence, tweaking the cameras to be better, adding another button. So weird that there are two buttons added to the iPhone in two years to do some better things that we've we've extolled the virtues of the idea of physical controls to create muscle memory so that you don't have to, you know, tap around on a screen that you could feel like it's a little more understandable in your brain and in your hand and your muscle memory to take a picture without thinking about it. Like there's a lot to be said for all of that. So that's all good, right? But it's also just kind of pushing it forward. And that's screens a little bit bigger, battery lights a little bit better. Like we're not in an era where from year to year the iPhone is going to blow you away. There are going to be moments where there's a big change. But you know, this was not this was not that Apple watch. I I think it's really interesting how they continue to evolve the Apple watch without like 10 years ago, they announced it. If you if you showed them the Apple watch of today, the series 10, 10 years ago, I think people would be like, huh, it still looks like that, huh? Like they've evolved it a lot over the ensuing 10 years, but still recognizably the Apple watch. It's not radically changed in almost any way. It's bigger screen, smaller border, thinner, there are lots of things about it, bigger in some dimensions. But it is I think I think the series 10 looks really good, but I think it's funny that it looks really good despite the fact that they just keep creeping with it like they don't. It's not like they had the same Apple watch for five years and then they unveiled a whole new Apple watch that completely blew you away and then they kept that for another five years. Apple watch is more just like every couple of years, it just gets a little bit bigger, a little bit better and and this year with that plus adding sleep apnea without actually adding any new sensors, that's also really interesting. So, so yeah, I it's never it's a super important event because of what the iPhone means to the world in terms of being a market, but for and getting AirPods in line as well, it's really good for them and an Apple watch, but like in many ways, it's more important for the world than it is for those of us who are watching Apple more closely because it is sort of what we thought and it is not the revolutionary year. It is just some more evolution, but there's some good stuff there. I think in the end though, isn't this the what it's really about is in the end, it's about Apple intelligence and waiting for Apple intelligence and so much of this announcement is getting these phones ready for Apple intelligence because that's a strategic future for Apple. That's a strategic direction for them, even though it's not out yet and it won't even start rolling out until next month, it's still where they're putting all their chips right now. And so I think that's interesting, but it's also wait and see because these phones are designed specifically for Apple intelligence, okay, but it's not here yet. We're all still waiting for it to it to arrive and it's going to take time for it to roll out years really before it entirely rolls out. So the jury is still out on that. So it's a weird time, right? It's just it's a weird time. It's like we've never had before like like essentially new iPhone comes out, but the newest version of iOS is like months away where like most of what is in iOS 18 is Apple intelligence, right? Like if you look at the overall feature set of like what are the biggest feature set like feature jumps that they're making, it's that and so the new iPhone comes and it's going to get some new stuff, sure. But then the biggest features in the iOS 18 cycle from Apple's perspective, at least, we don't even we don't know when they're coming, but like we're going to get a drip free to them over the next six months or whatever is just like an interesting time to be in, right? Like a completely agree with you. It's like a very peculiar thing like we built these phones from the ground up for these new features and none of them are there on the day they go on sale. Really weird. Yeah. I mean, maybe as soon as 10 days, 11 days later, we don't know a few weeks later, but not on the day they go on sale for sure. All right, next week is the show's 10th anniversary. So go to upgrade feedback.com, send us in your thoughts. Like we're obviously going to spend some time on next week's episode, reflecting on the show and reflecting on 10 years of upgrade and 10 years of six colors because they go hand in hand together. So send us in your ask upgrade questions related to that, your follow up your feedback. If you have things you want to hear us talk about when reflecting on a decade of this show and a decade of six colors, because those two things will be forever linked. But also send in your ask upgrade questions for everything related to the event. I'm sure we'll be spending a bit more time talking about that next week. I'll be in Memphis getting ready for the podcast, we'll have more to talk about with that next week too. Please go to stju.org/relay where you can find out more about that and how you can donate and learn more about fundraising for St. Jude Children's Research Hospital. We really appreciate it. If you give whatever you can give. If you want to check out Jason's work, go to six colors.com. You can hear his podcasts at the incomparable.com and here on relay where you can listen to me too. And check out my work at cortexbrand.com. You can find us online. Jason is @Jasonell, J-S-N-E-W-L. I am @imike, I-M-Y-K-E. You can watch clips of this show on TikTok, Instagram and YouTube. We are @upgraderelay. Thank you to our members who support us with Upgrade Plus. You can get a longer ad-free version of the show each and every week, go to getupgradeplus.com to sign up. Thank you to our sponsors for this week's episode. That is Backblaze, Delete Me and Uni Pizza Ovens. But most of all, thank you for listening. We'll be back next week. Until then, say goodbye Jason Snow. Goodbye Mike early. [MUSIC] [BLANK_AUDIO]
From the iPhone 16 to the Apple Watch Series 10 to the AirPods 4 to the _other_ AirPods 4, and with the release of Apple Intelligence hanging over it all, we break down the announcements from the September Apple Event.
