Overdunk
115: Overdunk Ep. 116 Competitive Pokémon Round Table!
[MUSIC] [MUSIC] >> All right, welcome back to Over Nunk, everybody. Your favorite competitive Pokemon Unite podcast. This is episode 116. Some would say too many episodes, but luckily there's a few of you hanging on. Thank you so much. I am your host, Zoinks. I am joined as always by my co-host, Bridget. And unfortunately, no do snacks tonight. So we have replaced him with three casters from other games. It felt like the only math equation we could put together. We have people representing Pokemon Go, Pokemon Trading Card Game, and the Pokemon Video Game. Unfortunately, Wonder Chef did decline the invite, no poke and representation. Absolutely wild stuff on him, but that's okay, we will remember. He did not tonight, he's gonna come and get mad at me for that. But we will get into the episode to hear just a moment. But I wanted to preface, we've done one of these on the channel before. And it seemed like a lot of you really liked it. We are going to be talking about all things competitive Pokemon. World's championships just happened for all of our games recently. So a lot of the early discussion will be about what world's was like for each of the titles. And then looking forward into next season for, I guess, again, Unite Go, we just see a TCG, because it's changes, there's new exciting things happening. And let's just let's talk about it. So I'm really excited. So let's introduce everybody, shall we? Let's start with just our co-host though. Of course, we got the VIP Bridget, who I incorrectly said your name on Twitter when announcing this episode. I am so sorry. >> I said you liked talking about it. >> Yeah, honestly, at this point, I have to lean into the bits and defend myself. And now it has become deep lore, Bridget. How are you? How's your last week been? >> It's been really good. I've been actually playing a lot of Unite. >> Paul? >> Definitely trying to get to the sticker. Don't think it's going to happen for me. But I hope some friends get there so it's fine. >> Okay, good. As I was going to say, I think you were like 24 hours. Maybe we are very close at the end of the season. If you want to get that rank sticker, you're very, very close. But awesome, Caleb, talk to me. You were on this episode, is it two years ago now at this point? That seems crazy to think about. >> Was it two years ago? >> A year ago? >> I don't know. >> It was like post London. >> It was over a year. >> It was definitely over a year ago. >> That we can agree on. Caleb Ping, Pokemon Go commentator, but also Unite player. Maybe past Unite player, he switched over to League of Legends. But Caleb, how have you been, my friend? >> Doing well. >> This was actually, Unite makes it actually the first time I commitated a Unite tournament too. >> Okay. >> So I think I hit you all the way. Hey, if you ever need a new caster, I'm here for you. And you're like, yeah, we actually have a spot. So I got just some grassroots casting for Unite as well. But big fan of Mobas, like you mentioned, play probably too much League of Legends, but also play a lot of Unite as well outside of Pokemon Go. So happy to be here. >> Sweet, that's good to hear. Yeah, it's been said a few times, mostly by me. If you want to get into your night casting, literally just got to ask me. So that's really like, people are like, I need advice on maybe how to get into it. I'm like, just talk to me and I'll get you on a mic. I really like asking with new people, it's a lot of fun. But Scarzig, we've worked together a bunch on a few of those pre-shows before some of the international events in the live studio. But Adam, Scarzig, you have worked very familiar with the TCG side of things, both on the back end and in the commentator booth. So how have you been, my friend? >> Been doing good, just been grinding, getting ready for the next season. For sure, we're going to be talking about that a little bit later. Catching up on a lot of work, especially getting back from Honolulu. >> Right. >> And just working on some art that's been really exciting. And I was able to squeeze in a short little lap around PAX West, actually. Some friends of mine, some family of mine were going down. And they dragged me along and showed me because I'd never been before. So I've managed to head down, there was a lot of fun. And now I'm trying to get into work mode, but I'm happy to be here today. >> Yeah, the switch up from vacation to work, especially on sort of at like PAX, that's got to be tough. I mean, I really wanted to go, I had a lot of friends going to PAX West and I was like, that would be so sick, but I desperately need paychecks right now. So it's off to my real life job, unfortunately, which you had so sad back to the grind. But last but certainly not least, Zemmonon, we've had you on the channel, a bunch to comment a book my Unite. But first time here on the podcast, Joe Brown, how have you been my friend? >> I'm doing great. Just like everyone else trying to recover still from Honolulu. Talking to me a couple weeks already, so close to the first reason of the new season. It feels like we haven't even recovered from the last season. But Zoey, I'm trying to wrap my head around the mat at the beginning of the show, where you said three casters are equating to one doof snacks. And it's like, are we eating 33% of the value of doof snacks? Or is Caleb 50% of doof snacks? And these are really two and five percent of the doof snacks? How's the math equate to get three to one ratio here? >> Yeah, I think it's less than baking more cooking, right? So it's less of percentage that you're taking up. It's more of ingredients that you really put together to whisk up. So cooking, which is brewing, whatever you want to think about it. I think the three of you can conjure a doof snacks if you put your talents together. I think that's what we kind of- >> That's what we're looking at. >> That's right, that's right. >> Okay, good, thank you, thank you. >> I'd be happy to take 10% of doofs this town, that's the number me. >> Dude, get in line, Caleb, all right? I've been begging for the very same thought. >> All right, we'll just space jamming just here. >> Yeah, it's the basketball. >> I can tell you, I was so jealous when I was watching Unite World, and there was a segment where doofs was, yeah, of course. We were backstage when you're not on it, and doofs had a segment where he was eating snacks? I was like hitting on my producer for a go. I was like, dude, why can't we do this? Like, all the snacks in the world, I don't care, right? That sounds like a great segment. >> Yeah, I think anyone, I might have been talking about it with you. We were discussing that it's really built on the fact that his name rhymes with the noun he's trying to pursue, right? So snacks with snacks really works in a good naming scheme. We talked a little bit about what Zoints could do, and we basically had Zoints with Zoints, and it would just be like hidden cam, Allah, MTV's punked, and we just tried to scare me around the event, like that would be the same. >> And I think it'd be kind of fun. Now, what can we do with the Cemmonon show? We need a good Cemmonon segment. >> That's a lost cause. I mean, it's easier with Joe Brown, right? >> Yeah, it could be a judge. >> Yeah, exactly. I can judge people's deck lists, or they're draft comps in Unite or something. I could judge if it's based or not. >> That's good. Ooh, I do like her a gavel. >> Ooh, yeah, I love the gavel. That'd be perfect. >> It'd be a personal security guard. You know how there's always security guard in those shows, right? >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> I want that just like skating and communicating. >> Oh, yeah. >> Smarking one in a while. Yeah, I hear the bale of it. >> Scars and slime. Everybody rise. >> That's good. I'll be the stenographer. I do think that's my role. That's the only other court name I know. >> Impressive. >> Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Okay, now that we've got introduced to everybody, this is a little intro question I wanted to talk about. I mean, basically to gauge all each of our interests in all of the competitive Pokemon titles, right? Like, I have talked on this episode, or this podcast quite a bit about how I'm actually a huge fan of the VGC, TCG, and Go communities and the games themselves. I've watched almost every single regional broadcast. I really like it. So, but obviously, Unite takes up more space in the old brainwaves, right? So, if I was to talk about a pie chart, Unite would probably be in the like 60 to 70 range, and all the other games probably end up like, yeah, 20, 30, somewhere in the midst there. Honestly, they probably end up being more. I would say almost 50, and then we evenly split the other three. How about all of you, experience in the other titles? Caleb, have you, I know you've played Unite, you've obviously played a ton ago, but how are your experiences in the other two maybe you're more unfamiliar with? Oh, yeah, I think if I would be honest, I would have to be like 50, like 1% going 49% Unite. Okay, yes. I definitely played Scarlet and Violet, and then I obviously have a lot of cards. I played some of the online TCG as well, but I'm like beyond noob in those. Like, I'll watch and people be clapping. I'm trying to figure out like why they're clapping a lot, right? Whereas Unite, I've like, I even could be in UCS the first season, and do some commentary for grassroots and stuff too. Yeah, we didn't do very good. We every time our team will like win round one, and then round two, it'd be like the number one seed or be number two seed. So, I'd be like, I still think it's Rinne or like Blackhand or TTV. Like, I was like, oh, at least you got a good like, sprint practice here here, but it's never a good time. Get stronger for next tournament. Yeah, yeah. Bridget knows this feeling intimately. I too have gotten stalked by TTV in a bracket. Yeah, it's stuff out there. Bridget, I'm actually curious about you. Where do you think your distribution is amongst the other games? Okay, Unite is definitely the most, but I actually, I understand how all the other games work. I must say, at least, yeah, I know, not a big deal. And actually, the first time I ever streamed, like forever and ever go, during Sword and Shield was actually me playing VGC, which is kind of funny. Whoa, okay. I actually really liked the first iteration of Sword and Shield competitive. That was definitely what I was most into it. Cool. But, you're next. Before the forereferr Shifu ever happened. Yeah, yeah, definitely didn't exist yet. It was beautiful. No, it was talking great and dense. It was a really good time for me. The grass is greener. Yeah, go. I only play PVP when the little tasks make me play the PVP. But actually, some friends who are very, very into it, like competed at NAIC. So they got me a little more into it. But Unite's probably like, at this point, like 70%, 70%. We're on a Unite show. We're allowed to be confident about that. Yeah, I don't know if it starts shocking. VGC probably like, I mean, the others are honestly all probably tens. Tons across the board. Nice. I would write them evenly. VGC probably a little more, but nowadays, I don't know what they're doing, so. That one timeline of VGC. Yeah, there was one time. It's got a wrap. All right, our VGC wrap is on. Same question to you. What's your distribution amongst all the titles? Yeah, I never thought about it before you asked, but like, I think I'm a pretty well-rounded competitive Pokémon player. The thing about it, like I started back in 2014, and back in the day, they would have obviously the VGC and TCG regionals, but they were on separate days. So Saturday was the start of TCG, and that was 20 bucks. And then Sunday was just free on VGC. So a lot of people that would bomb out planning TCG would play VGC on Sunday at the same regional. So the first couple of years that I was playing, I was playing both VGC and TCG competitively. So I played in multiple TCG regionals not well, but I played in all my experience in VGC over the last decade. Pokémon Go actually played a regional in Baltimore regionals a couple of years ago. I got a lot of coaching from Caleb and Butters and some of the other Gocasters. It didn't every VGC player play in a Go tournament then, because it was like VGC was on a break, and it was the whole thing. Right, VGC was on a break post-world until January. So we had like September, January. So I think a lot of people just took the time off, but a couple of players did try to get into go. And I had a lot of fun. I was hardcore into it. I was trying my best to give it my best shot. I was, I remember I was one win away from getting on stream. Like back when the stream was a different structure, it wasn't like you streamed all the rounds and stuff. So like Jim came up to me one of the Gocasters and he was like, "Listen, Joe, you win this next match here on stream." And I was just like, just all my momentum, all my confidence just shattered. I was so nervous because I wanted to go to the stream so much. But yes, I played Go in regional TCG regionals, obviously VGC. And then I've casted a fair share of Unite grassroots events. So I think maybe I have to go play in United LAIC. So I can say I've competed in LAIC professionally, you know? That'd be so sick. I can't freaking wait. Man, it's gonna be so awesome. That's a future topic, it's a future topic though. Scarzig, same question to you. What's the, what is your experience like in all four of the games the Pokemon has? Karol Man, so. Shout out, Pokan. But yeah, I'm a card gamer at heart. Those of you in the audience who know me, followed me individually, know that that's where all of my content and casting experience comes from. And bridging over to Pokemon, I've definitely entertained the idea of maybe learning Unite or learning VGC and just never really, you know, jumped into it. You know, there's always been just a really cozy home for me in the TCG side of things, especially now that I'm kind of working in front of and in front of camera and behind the camera and on the production crew. It's been great, but I have a funny story too, because I was like, okay, VGC with the new season coming up. Maybe I will jump in, do some learning. And I went to the Pokemon Play Lab while I was at PAX and I played a kind of like a practice training match where they teach you the game, how the doubles format works. They've pre-built teams. I was like, okay, this is awesome. I jumped in and got completely destroyed. My team got double frozen. I got hit by Ice Beam and got frozen. Got hit by Blizzard, got frozen. And I know how to take a hint, y'all. I was like, okay, everybody, VGC. Dang, so your game sounds like a blast, dude. Oh, the raw compatibility is not there. I don't have an affinity to that game. I just like, imagine, because like, Scarzy, he's got all this game now. He's a computer, everything at ones and zeros. And then he's like, why aren't dark times weak to grass? I thought I was galaxy brave because I had a Dragon Knight. I sent it in and then immediately went Terra Steel on the Dragon Knight to avoid the ice weakness. And I got frozen anyway. And I was like, okay, well, GG is dead. I thought I was like, yeah, you got hacked. I'm a genius. Oh, no, you remember that old beam. That old beam. Oh, that's unfortunate. But yeah, uh, oh, bummer. I'm so sorry. It was fun, though. I had a lot of fun at least dabbling in the game. Some of the people I knew from some of the other communities that I've casted for also bridged over to VG and they love the competition, the skill ceiling. And of course, for Unite, I tried it for a week when it first came out back in the day. And now with Psyduck about to come out, maybe we got to jump back in and play the boy. Oh, that'd be sick. I can't wait. That's going to be really fun. There was a tiny sliver of VGC in the Venn diagram. It was crazy for a moment. Yeah. And then he got double froze hacks. Yeah, exactly. Back to TZG. Complete 100% circle. That's a bummer, but that's really funny. Yeah, Joe, I've heard your rant about how the weaknesses in TCG don't make sense. And I always just shake my head because I'm like, does he really not get it? Like, oh, there's multiple types in one category? I'm so yeah, the way they grew from. But it's fine. You know, we're on Unite podcast here, so we don't have to get into this conversation. But I'll defend myself at a later date. Okay, good, good, good. Grassy as fuck. You should anyway, it's fine. The only one that does it make sense is the Tapu Koko promo for the first sun and moon set. Why is it weak to steal? It's very electric. Or no, why is it resistant to steel? It's very electric. That makes no sense. And it messes up my GLC games every time. I'm so upset. Anyway, or how the fire type ground on is weak to grass. Yeah, I'll go on. I'm trying to get to the last gene. You're coming to my side. It's a funny time. It's a great. It's funny. Isn't it rock? No, it's ground fire. But it's ground fire. So should we neutral ground? Well, that's why I don't play BG. Yeah. You could make it. Not the fighting. Maybe we're, but then be which of its own typing. And then you have a promo ground on meta. It'd be bad. Okay. Anyway, old card balancing conversation later. The biggest event in all of our titles unilaterally because of how book one works uniquely. Is our world championships were just a couple of weeks ago. Obviously, this is the biggest event of each year. So I just wanted a quick chat of like, how did everybody's game go? Bridget and I just did a world recap episode for Unite. Just last episode. So if you're really interested in our full thoughts on Unite, go there. But for everybody else, Caleb, talk to me. What were the go championships like for people who didn't even watch? Oh, yeah, it was great. I mean, we had it's going to be. It was our biggest world to date in terms of competitors. A little over 200 something and should be less next year because of the new qualification numbers. So it's probably the biggest one we have for quite a while. And the person to win it all was actually a, how was he? 16 years old? No. Yeah. Yeah, 16 years old. Yeah. His name's Jekai. He's from Hong Kong and for he's an APAC player. So APAC players in Go have arguably a disadvantage because they only have one chance to really qualify. They have to enter a qualifier like Swiss rounds and then go to playoffs for that. And then if they don't make, you know, depending on the region, it could be like top two, which is, I think, Yekai's case or like top four from India, which is like over like 200 plus players there. But if you don't make those like top two to top four cut offs, outside Japan, Japan's qualification is a little bit different, but outside of that's for the APAC region. So you just can't qualify the world. So it's a very hard region to qualify from because you only have one chance. You have to perform really well that one day. Whereas in the North America, Latin, Oceania or Europe, you could just try as many times as you can feasibly afford or go to. And sometimes even the local tournaments can qualify you through that without even, you know, doing well at an in-person tournament. So very impressive stuff from him. So he won that and then he won all worlds, not dropping single series. And he's also the first player from APAC to win worlds. So quite, quite the feats for him. And yeah, it was, it was really impressive. Our second place finisher was actually inadequate. It was a European player who was also actually a go caster too. So arguably one of the best players in the world, but also the best caster in go competitive speaking. So it was definitely a good time. Yeah. I mean, go is kind of unique in that aspect, right? Like where a lot of you are competitors as well as comms. Like you qualified for the world championships this year, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I did a speedy was like a world champion, like a grassroots level event, right? Like inadequate, obviously second place at worlds. That's crazy. But yeah, I go definitely, you'll walk around with an era of like, oh my gosh. They know what they're doing. It's getting harder though, because we only have one age division now. Our first year we had a seniors and a masters. But now after that first year to combine it to all masters. And I don't know how it's like for TV and BBC, because I know we have junior seniors and masters, but I don't know like how well the juniors or seniors, my fair and a masters division. But for go, like a lot of our best players are on the younger side. I think something can be said about something like unite as well, right? I mean, like, overall being young and like a lot of these younger kids just having faster reaction skills and stuff. So some more time. So yeah, yeah, I'm like, yeah, that's too little. Yeah. I'm getting a little too old for go to be competitive. Yeah, so yeah, he obviously would have been in a junior or a senior division, I think, if that still was around. But yeah, very young competitor, but one of many that are like very young accomplished in our scene. So that's cool. Definitely good to see. Yeah, us oldies like me and Speed is she for aging out soon. But I need to hang up our competitive hats. Right. Well, our cup game has been in the competitive circuit for just as long as you're so making me a little worried. Fair enough, fair enough. Now, one more question for you, Caleb, about go. So speaking of, unite and go. We've been in the same circuit for our first world was London. So regionally, what have your world champs been the last three years? Because we've in unite, we had NA and now Japan. So we've only had two regions. How about you guys? Yeah. So the first year, obviously, we had a senior division and a master vision, but both were from both were from Europe. OK, cool. So Europeans were definitely feeling themselves after that one. And then last year, the top three finishers are all from North America. So NA was really hyping themselves up. And Europe, I think, was the first one out that season. There's a little banter there amongst our community about how Europeans kind of fell off a little bit. But this year, I saw it. It was good. In the second place, he's from Europe, right? And APAC was first place finisher. But I would say one of our grassroots orgs did a little chart going to day number two, top 32. And they did a percentage of representation in day number two, based on how many people went to worlds from that region. And Europe was overrepresented. So they actually did really well this year in world championships. And obviously, second place, it's great, too. But even getting-- they were the top-- I think they had 20% of their competitors all made top 32 or something like that, which is kind of wild. But they didn't win. So they didn't win, yeah, exactly. NA kind of was a little disappointed. We were the first region now, actually, this year. Well, I guess Oceania, but they're much smaller, but outside of that, yeah. That's definitely a trend, right? Where NA tends to really set the stage in the infancy of a lot of competitive games of any variety. I feel like I'm seeing that pattern a lot. And then once other regions catch up, that's when they start to eclipse. And then the game begins to evolve really heavily from there. So I'm really excited for going unite in that aspect to see where the games go, just from a raw skill perspective. Yeah, yeah, I'm really excited, too. Obviously, competitive from Hong Kong winning, the whole thing is really exciting for y'all, too. And then unite. We have definitely not a promise, but a big anticipation for China to be joining the competitive circuit very soon, where-- [INTERPOSING VOICES] --in the MOBA genre is a pretty incredible region. So I'm excited for that. Also, huge shout out. Thank you so much for the ray tune. Hope you had a great stream, too. An unbelievably good competitor in our title topic. Where else is here? So shout out to the dudes. I've lost the tune many times. Oh, yeah. Join the club. If you played our game-- [INTERPOSING VOICES] --and you see us, I was just like-- I used to watch his Aegis/Videos on how to get better. Oh, yeah. That's when he was in NA playing on-- T-T-V-2, that's rough. Yes. What an era. OK. All right, Scarzig, talk to me. How did the World Championships go for you and TCG? And I'm really excited. I have a few production specific questions for you that I'm really excited to talk to you about. But let's just start with the world as a whole for TCG. What was it like? Worlds, just awesome vibes. I love how worlds, you know, it's not just about the games. It's also the community, right? It's just it's a big festival for all things Pokemon. But of course, whether you don't know, I wasn't casting, I wasn't in front of the camera. I was part of the backstage crew as well, helping out with the stream. And that was great because I just got to be, you know-- I guess front seat almost, front row seats for all the action, all the games that we played on stream. We debuted a new special overlay that everybody's really excited about because it makes the game a little bit easier to watch, especially for more casual viewers. Anybody new who's jumping in will be able to follow the action a little bit more. And I was part of the team that is responsible for running that new overlay and all the computers and stuff and bells and whistles they have hooked up to it. So very excited for that. But in terms of competition, I know that we have a lot of content creators, probably a lot of podcasts already that have talked about it. Certainly, we had some unexpected decks do very well. And then a last-minute upset as a player in the top eight had actually been handed a loss rather than a win due to unsportsman-like conduct. So a match-up that we thought was going to happen suddenly didn't happen, and it was this crazy, you know, almost WWE anime style. But wait, your opponent's actually this person. And it shook things up, you know, a lot of controversy around that. No need to bog down this podcast by digging into the specifics. But suffice to say, regardless of anything that happened, the decks that did see a lot of success of the World Championships were a very heavy mixture of some unpredicted successes like Mariah Donne and Shinosuke's Roaring Moon EX decks. Certainly, we're not on my radar. And Reggie Drago V-Star, which everybody knew was going to be strong heading into the tournament, but didn't get bullied out of the tournament, I think, as much as people were anticipating. And I thought the deck was quite strong heading into NAIC and to see enough people really come into the deck, give it its due diligence certainly was great. And, of course, it got a new card, a couple new cards in the shrouded fable set. We got a special mini set that shook up the meta, just a little, just a touch right before the World Championships. So that was also great to help out and showcase more variety there. - Yeah. Yeah, Curum was kind of nuts. And that's stupid. No, Monkey Dory was probably not as great. That's different, I guess. But here, while I got you, you know, cards on the table, I thought the Curum was a little bit too saucy. I didn't think it was going to be that important. And that, in order to pull it off, you were going to need to overextend a bit too much. And I was proven wrong. I, the Curum, popped off certainly, so. - R.G. Drogo's just, it became consistent, which is crazy. But anyway, that list, I think was really fun to play as like a TCG player as well. I don't know, I think that's like one of the most fun top tier meta decks they've printed in a while. I was gonna say like a very fun play pattern as opposed to the champion deck, which have iron thorns, which it sounds like pulling teeth to play it or play against. - I wasn't the same though with R.G. Drogo. The more I played it, the more I was like, this deck is insane, and I love it. It's so rewarding for playing the game just solidly. - Yes, I agree. - And it gives it such a great skill, floor, skill ceiling, and then in the TCG, our top level players can squeeze blood out of a stone and they win out from these absolutely ridiculous board states, they see lines of play that even other, there's the S plus tier high level players and then just the A plus and S tier players that aren't seeing certain lines or certain calculations. And it always floors me every time. So shout out to those players who put in so much time and dedication truly being rewarded for it. But iron thorns, I think just a, I thought an iron thorns hybrid was maybe going to be - Oh really, okay. - of Maradon was going to be the way to go, but just going all in an iron thorns ended up being even more of a deadly choice for the tournament certainly. - Yeah, that was crazy. Fun list, if you're, maybe if you're playing it, I don't know, it didn't feel like it to me, but hey, it won the championship thing. Cool story from Worlds about the champion of TCG, when he got brought up to do like all of his winners interview and like media post tournament after winning, I was also in that same media room doing a little bit of like work I had to do to close out the event. It was really funny because when we go in there, the translator is like kind of having a hushed conversation with the champion, the champion's father. I think he was like pretty young, right? It was like a 19 year old player that won the World Championship for TCG. And they're like talking with the translator kind of hurriedly and the translator comes over to me. I think they assumed I worked in any capacity that could help. But also a couple of the like media team and they're like, can we just make this like really fast? Our plane is in like three hours and we need to buy an extra bag for this trophy. So we got, we got to go, that is super funny. But go about. So it was a quick interview when they got moving, but I thought that was, that was pretty great. Well, yeah, this is a good event. Joe, VGC, you close out the show every tournament, very, very fun to watch. I love watching VGC every single year. You were casting, I think, juniors, right? But talk to me about how the VGC tournament went for Worlds. - Yeah, I think it's always an honor for VGC to go last to like close the show before they're closing ceremony 'cause obviously people wanna tune in for the closing ceremony. So the most people are watching at that point. It was a, it was a great weekend overall. There was a lot of, there was kind of a lot of nostalgia attached to this World Championship. One, like it's the third time being in Hawaii. So it's a different island. But obviously we have Pokemon competitive history attached to Hawaii at the World Championships. It's also the 10 year anniversary of Sage and Park winning the World Championships back in 2014, which is, you know, for anybody who doesn't know, arguably the most iconic competitive Pokemon moment in, you know, across all of the games that we've ever had, like a lot. - Yeah. - You could probably attribute a lot of the growth of a competitive Pokemon to that, like, you know, moment, not all of it, obviously, but it was-- - Not fair amount of it, yeah. - It was the 10th anniversary. And on top of that, Sage June who qualified from Korea, not only brought Patresoo on his team yet again this year, which it wasn't even a troll. It was actually, it wasn't, it wasn't great, but it was an understandable meta counter to the most, one of the most popular restricted Pokemon, Maradon, Patresoo has the false observability, making it immune to electric attacks, and then its Terra option was fairy. So Maradon who pretty much just has electric and dragon moves, if you terra fairy, the Patresoo and just click follow me, the Maradon literally cannot do damage. And it will just, it's like a checkmate, like you can't win the game at that point. Now against other legendaries, like how like Sage June was on stream against Aaron Zang with that Maradon, it's not as great. But he also wore the exact same outfit that he wore 10 years ago. - Wow. (laughing) - That's so genius. He's due like a before and after photo. - Oh, he knew what he was doing. - Yeah, he knew what he was doing. (laughing) - Yeah, I'm going on a street. - It's like both times skip same outfit and like the hair is just a little bit different. He's got like a star on one eye. (laughing) - So love how, you know, how dedicated he was to the history of the game and appreciation of it. But also like just in general, we had, we're very fortunate at VGC where a lot of our world champions are still world's caliber players. That's still qualified for the World Championships every year. So when we look through the schedule for each round, I think we had five different world champions on stream day one. - Wow. - Didn't not have a good record. We're actually, we're actually over five on stream until wolf one and day two. So world champions were not doing well on the big stage. But yeah, that's, I'd say it's like a big, it was big, just celebration, like 10 years from say June and a lot of history at VGC. Going into championship Sunday, we had some really cool stuff. I was on the junior finals match and the, the junior that won Kevin Han, he is like, he is light years ahead of the junior's division at this point. He has won seven regionals, three ICs in worlds. - Wow. - So he- - This year? - Yeah, he won all those this year? - Yeah, yeah. - Three ICs. - Like it's hard. - Oh, that's all of them. - That's all of them. - That's all of them. - Okay. - You might want to learn how to do it in the year. This year, he won E-W-A-C-N-I-C-N Worlds, all consecutive years. So I'm not sure about L-A-S-B before, but basically like he goes to locals. I've been, I've been to locals. I've lost to this kid at locals before. - Yeah. - Like when he was like 10 years old. Now he's a couple of years older. And he's being like world's qualified players in the master's vision. So this, so he's a real threat. And it was like he was moving up to the senior position. (laughing) Somebody, somebody get him a detention or something. - Yeah. - So that was, that was a big crux of our game. Was that it was this junior who's well, wise, way, way beyond his years. But then the master's finals was really cool. There was a European player, Luka Cherivelli, who was from Italy, and then a Japanese player who was running a hard tricker team. And it came down to Moridon versus Calrex, Ice Rider, who are the two, probably the two best restricted Pokemon throughout the whole weekend. And EU came away with their third world championship as Luka came out on top. - Okay. - So now it's, I think it's five Japan, four US, three EU, I wanna say. So one more and they tie us. - Dang, no Canadian world's best. We're just calling them US. - No NA title. - Well, anyway, I sneak in there. - It doesn't matter 'cause it's Wolf and Ray, Wolf and Ray. - Right, yeah. - Both US. - Oh, dang it. (laughing) - Unlucky. - Unlucky. All right, well, Bridget, do you wanna give the quick Unite recap for any viewers who are potentially just from other titles? Doing in the podcast. - Um, a Japan team won. - Uh-huh. - They stopped. (laughing) - They lost, they lost one map, the entire tournament in both group stage and top 16, single olim. - They were playing out of their minds. They've all like have qualified for worlds before and like different iterations, not exactly the exact five players, but have kind of been on the scene for, I mean, since the esport has happened. So it was really cool to see them like soar and implement a lot of like, like they were playing meta, but they were playing like their own game a lot different than how a lot of the other teams were looking at things. It's kind of hard to explain. They're putting eXp share on their attacker. No one else is doing that at all. - Yeah. - It's not successfully. (laughing) - No. (laughing) - I've done that over. - It's definitely in solo queue, but that's about it. (laughing) - Exactly. So yeah, it was like doing side with Japan's first time winning worlds for United's always been an NA team and we didn't do great. - Yeah, we had NA had two teams in top 16, but didn't move past the round of 16. So out of four reps from NA, two of them made it out of the group stage, but did not go past round of 16. Our top eight was six Asian teams and two Western teams. So it was definitely a big flip-flop of what we have seen because World's Year one was like EU and NA playing in the grand finals. And then World's Year two was NA versus APAC with like Japan at like three and four. And so it was kind of the slow climb of Japan for these last couple of years, but now they are definitely the dominant team. It's gonna be, I'm super excited to see what kind of changes next year, because even if we look at last year, EU as a region got kind of memed on a little bit, none of their teams made it out of groups. But this year, I think one of the EU teams had a great run. They ended at top eight, but they did look really, really strong and went on a good run. So I don't know, it feels like EU as a whole kind of picked up a little bit. - Okay. - So yeah, it's, I don't know. Night isn't an interesting spot. I feel like we had this, Caleb, you might remember this, we had this conversation last time we did this round table podcast. It's like, it feels like Unite out of all the titles is the most focused on like region specific storylines, where as a lot of the other games, I mean, all of your games are single player titles. So a lot of them revolve around the players in particular. I would say there are some bigger conversations. Go in particular as like that EU versus NA beef, that's very fun, and I do like it. But it's still like we have like, well, that Lattam North is looking really good. You know, like very specific regional call outs that we end up having storylines with around. Which is interesting, just interesting. - Yeah. - And you brought that up a little bit during the World's Preview Show. Kind of the different meadows and approaches to the game that the different regions kind of play towards and Bridget touched on that as well, where the Champions Fennel was it, was viewing the game from kind of a different angle. Do you think that the overall meta game of Unite, how the game should be played, has shifted towards a style that favors those teams? Or have they just really increased their skill vis-a-vis NA? - I think it's the latter. And maybe that's just me saying, I hope it's the latter. Because here's the thing, in Unite, kind of vernacular these days, it is really popular to talk about like, NA's never gonna catch up. Japan's moved so far ahead. What are we gonna do? But like, I feel like that's not capturing the whole story behind it. I think that play style won this tournament. It did. But even amongst the Japanese teams, there are different play styles amongst all three that were representative like, a team Zeta Division got, I believe, top eight as well. That's where they concluded their tournament. But they got second at UIC. That's what they did really well at. And their style is a lot more of a blend between NA and Japan, which is really interesting. But like, I don't know, it just felt like that play style won. I don't want NA to lose its identity just because it's in a bit of a crisis. I guess it's what I'm like saying, it might not be true. I might be just on Hopium a little bit, but it feels like that's kind of the spot we're in. But at least to me, Bridget, I'm curious. Are you aligned? Or do you think that NA's gotta figure this Japan thing out? - Maybe more a little bit of both, because I do feel like since NA and like Western teams have been pretty dominant up until this world where APAC had every team they set day two, except for like one, basically very insane. They all did crazy. - One of them knocked out Luminosity Gaming, the two-time world champions. - Yeah, I feel it. - Yeah, yeah, both of the, we talked about the last chance qualifier teams from APAC were monsters, and nobody thought they would show up like that at all. - I erased the whiteboard, there's no evidence anymore. - Yeah, that's true, no proof of that. So I do think we need to take, like there's a lot to learn from how like APAC in Japan played the game compared to how NA does, and I know I feel like maybe prior to this point, NA was like, no, we do it right, but maybe we're a little more open, 'cause it did feel like APAC teams would like play to their strengths more than play to the meta, which I feel like might've been a little bit of our downfall, probably among a billion other things, but I got crushed. - I've always stated that if we're gonna lump just East and West together, I think East is very much, we want to prove that we know what's best, like we've solved it. Are we your take of the meta, that's what's best. And the West is very much we wanna be the best at what everyone thinks is best. So we wanna identify the meta and become the best at the meta game. We wanna optimize the crap out of it. If you're not knocking out this wild Pokemon at 842, you're doing it wrong. Like, we wanna make sure our experience is min maxed to the nth degree and try to play around that, where the Eastern meta is a lot more fluid, they're willing to take big risks in draft because that's where their players are comfortable, and just kind of make stuff work, which evidently, again, it won this tournament, which is really interesting, but yeah. Okay, I love to talk about you tonight. Okay, go ahead, yeah, yeah, yeah. - No, I wanna add on, I think it's really interesting how you two are categorizing your regions compared to how we would from the other sports, the other games, I'm not sure Caleb and Scarz is here, but I would imagine we, our regions are all our individual, or you're like East, first West, NA and EU are not East, or are not West, excuse me, like NA, comma, EU, comma, Latin, comma, and you're like, it seems interesting how you name is branching East and West together, or West as one group in East as one group in the world. - I think on the world, I did it in the four. I think I did Japan, APAC, NA, EU, and Lattab. Those are like the four quadrants I kind of have, but you are right, we do lump some regions together. NA and EU, in particular, gets lumped together a lot because those players play together all the time, but I'm sorry, I cut you off, Joe, please continue. - No, I just think it's interesting how you guys see, view your region, I think you have more of an East sport, I guess a traditional East sport, do you want it, right? Something like StarCraft or League of Legends, or like, you know, even fighting games, they would consider Western as in like Europe and NA together, but in BGC, maybe two year ago, like a player playing NA and a player playing in EU, like they're not the same team. You're in the same category. - Interesting, that is really cool. Okay, yeah, Scarsing, talk to me about TCG on that. - For TCG, we have some player rivalry, certainly. We drum up some inter-region banter as much as we can just for fun and storyline purposes, but generally, my take on the whole global region breakdown is that EU, we always give them some extra credit for playing control decks, things that are a bit slower, more methodical, a little bit more reasoned out, just because your top players will decide what is good and other players will adopt their decks and it all trickles down from there, and we tend to give a lot of credit, you know, to Tord Reklev, the Cameron Brothers, Kremaskoli, I, Caterpie, for those of you who know the control board over there, along with, I'm forgetting his name, but you'll have to forgive me, so control for EU, NA tends to find the really good deck for a specific tournament, not like an overall theme. Like for this tournament, we're predicting the meta, we've got a lot of really good testing groups of top players that are all working together to shop up. What is the best deck for this specific meta? And the pattern I've begun to notice is that Lattam and I gotta give a shout out to Oceania, the Australian players, tend to be very good at very quickly identifying what is the best deck overall for a meta game and just full sending it. And, you know, it's 50/50 whether or not it is optimized enough to immediately see success, right? Like Charizard EX kind of got its claim to fame as the recipe that it became, the Tord Reklev, reactive, disruptive Charizard. It got its start as just a, "I'm going to get separately fast and hit you Charizard," and that had its origins in Lattam. I remember way back into origin form, Paulky of V-Star, when that was one of the forefront decks in the meta, got its origins. I would definitely say out of Australia where people knew the deck was strong, but because it didn't have any data around how it would do an internment or how it should be built, other regions were afraid to bring it and Australia jumped right on it. And the same with Gardevoir. I feel like even when other regions weren't really that, you know, sold on Gardevoir, only individual specialist players from other regions would bring it. It seemed that Australia was much more willing to bet big on Gardevoir. So that's kind of my general take on the regions for TCG. - Shout out OC, okay, I like that. I like that a lot. You don't get enough shout outs in Unite, or maybe they can get them out. Either way, Caleb, Caleb, how about regional medicine go? - Yeah, I think it used to be a lot more regional, kind of like what Joe was saying about, you know, it would be like NA and the EU and, you know, Lattam and, you know, APAC kind of be separate. Oceania also having some of their own metas, but I want to say probably in this past year, it's the game has kind of been more globalized, more so in the sense that, like, I mean, if we play in our in-game ranked ladder, it doesn't matter what region you're in. Like, it's just depends on time, though. Like, if I'm up late, I'm QN2, like, players from Asia, you know, and Oceania and stuff, and there's really no difference in that. - And what they're running against stuff like that? Like, it's-- - No, no, no, in the sense that you could face anyone, really at any point in ranked ladder. So, and people will kind of like, you know, copy ideas from each other here and there, but for the actual, like, tournament format, where it's just show six and bring three, there's been just kind of like a lot of more, like, online practice tournaments and grassroots resources where they highlight, like, which team perform well, even if it's for like a region that didn't have, like, a broadcast of tournament, right? They'll say, like, oh, these were the top finishing, you know, teams from Korea's qualifiers and like that, right? And so, people are just kind of picking apart, like, what works and what doesn't work. So, even like the world champion team, like, he won with a team that was, you know, something that you would see in any, like, North American tournament, too, even though he's from Hong Kong, right? So, I think that's kind of been one of the big parts of it. And also, just like TCG and VGC, because it's kind of an individual type of game, the trends aren't as obvious, I would say, right? For like, for go, right? Whereas like, you know, for unite, you have to work as five collectively, a full team of five composition and strategy, is probably it has a lot more chances of being unique than just like one person running, you know, six different Pokemon, where there's a lot of times you face someone, they have like four out of the same six or five out of the same six Pokemon that you have, right? So, there's only as much strategic difference. Like, you know, like a LinkedIn, for example, was like one of our best Pokemon in the past meta. It's gonna be good no matter what region you're from, right? And it's gonna be good in a lot of match-ups. So, yeah, kind of like that, yeah. - That makes a lot of sense too for TCG, where, you know, we have the same decks trickle down, and you swap out two to three cards for the meta of the tournament that you're anticipating. We get early data from, or just data we take with a grain of salt from grassroots online tournaments, and especially from Japan, because they get the new cards early, but because their tournament formats and qualifications are so different, they tend to gravitate away from certain archetypes. So, we have to take that into account, and that also plays into making that bold call of, yeah, this deck didn't show up too well in early online tournaments, but I see the vision, and I think in our format, it could be quite good. And I just remember the other player from EU, I wanna shout out, was Sander Wojczyk, the other controlled demon from EU. - Yes, I've heard the Wojczyk name. - Yeah, it is strong. Okay, cool. Yeah, all right, check, gettin' hype for your corgis in the backscarsia, of course, okay. They're so well represented on today's podcast. That's wonderful. Awesome, okay, so we're running a little bit late on time, so I'm gonna jump around questions a little bit here. We were gonna talk about, what's we expect headed into the next year for each of our titles? Unite, we technically don't know exactly yet, other than we're gonna be at LEIC, so we're pumped for that, but we're gonna hold all of you hostage then, we're not gonna ask that question since we don't know yet. We'll talk about that very soon. As soon as the rule book shrubs, we'll have an over and a half episode about that, but one question, Caleb, you posed this one. I think we actually talked about it a little bit last time we did this town hall round table style thing, but the question I have is or should Pokemon be esports? Is it there already? If it's not, should it be? Are the parts that make it unique from the esports titles good? All of this is kind of a captured, and to start us off, I thought this was kind of interesting. The esports insider, a really cool website, did a article recently called Pokemon the Unspoken Esports. Spooky title, but I think it kind of fits. Throughout it, they basically talk about the system, about how Pokemon is unique in the esports world. So they, for example, we have one world championship that kind of has every title at it. This is only really represented in one other esports that I can think of, and that would be like all the supercell titles. So like Clash Royale, Clash of Clans, Brawl Stars, their event is at one venue, and it's played out over a week or so, which is really funny that it's like the first on Keep Reading. But anyway, basically just goes on to talk a little bit more about the Vocal Wide World Championships and all of that, and mostly positive, talking about the representatives from around the world, how many show up and everything like that. But of course, whenever you talk esports orgs come up a lot. If you are a fan of any other esports, you definitely know what these are already. But talking about organizations joining and becoming a part of a ecosystem in competition. I've talked about this with a bit of a trepidacious way because I have followed esports for a very, very long time. Yeah, like I said, when Caleb was talking about growing up with Dota, I've also done so, right? I've watched all the old Starcraft vods. I pay-per-viewed Starcraft vods. That's how old I am. - Oh, true gamer. - Which, yeah, I am a real gamer. May thank me later. I, it's a weird question, and we're world to be. And unite, I would say. You can correct me if you think this was wrong, but I think out of all four titles, it is definitely the most esports-y out of them. I mean, it's a team competition, which already gives us that one. We had 26 teams attend the world championships. The vast majority of them were represented by Orcs. Very small Orcs, for the most part, except for Japan. Japan, for just for worlds, not for the whole year, which is an interesting other talking point that we might have to bring up in this title, but we had kind of around some. So, APAC, we had some large Orcs and some solo ones, like Onik Rise, Talon, both represented for us, as well as, of course, in Japan. Fennel and Zeta Division and JSB Reject, all very big names. And then in North America, the biggest name we probably have is Luminosity. We had some other really small Orcs, like Fluffy Amers, were represented and stuff like that. Like very small startup organizations that are basically, we'll pay you a few dollars to get to worlds and get our name out there. It's an interesting spot to be, but I'm curious when other games think. Caleb, let's start with you. Pokemon Go, I'd say, is probably the closest in this realm and the same thing to be talking about East Voice Orcs. Y'all had jerseys on stage a couple of years ago. So, talk to me. - Yeah. - Do you want Pokemon Go to be more like other East Sports? - I definitely would. I think the harder part is, how do we get there? And I think Joe and Adam might have more insights on this as other games that have, like, kind of individual competition, but have been around for much longer, right? So, maybe you all have more insights on this, but there's like, we have some definitely smaller East Sports Orcs sponsoring some players here there. And the biggest one is probably Seven and 11 Mexico, which they're like incredible. Like they have big org, they fund a lot of East Sports. I don't know what they're doing in Mexico, but I want that Seven and 11 to be doing that here in the US as well, because that'd be dope. But they spent a lot of resources, but I think outside of them, there's not really any other notable East Sports Orcs that are really involved in the Go scene. And I can see why, because it's tough, because it's an individual competition. Your chances of winning worlds, or even top five at Worlds, is very, very slim when there's like 199 other competitors there, and any bad match up here there can just knock you out right off the bat, right? And just like, it's a lot of investment for org, for potentially very little payout, right? Whereas, team games like Unites, like League, like Dota, all this stuff, all these first-person shooter games, where there's a team aspect to it, there's a lot more incentive for these orgs to get their names out there, because there's a much higher chance. They go to Worlds, and they perform well at Worlds. Also, team games inherently, you're gonna have less teams, and compared to individual players at Go and stuff, like that as an example. So, your odds of doing well are much higher, right? That and itself, so-- - You're-- - Yeah, sorry, we're gonna say, yeah. - I was just gonna say, you're definitely hitting the nail right on the head. Being an individual competition, 1v1, less opportunities for visibility. And this is also mentioned in that esports, insider article that you were mentioning, that Pokemon doesn't need to partner with any outside brands or sponsorships, the way you'll see in other esports broadcasts. So, organizations would rather kind of approach getting into a community or into a scene from multiple angles in that way, where they're sponsoring strong players, but also they want their logo on some of the parts of the broadcast, or to be shouted out by some of the casters or the hosts. Oh yeah, we're gonna go to the 7/11 recap, you know how they do on the esports test. - I wouldn't kill to be like, that's a 7/11 penta KO in the auto-automatic-- - I would commit that murder to call that. - Yeah, I think our players from TCG have done a really good job of just making their own orgs, right? Like, Torque Reklev has a sponsorship with PSA, the card grading company. That's very organic, a lot of players are. Judo's sponsored by Medify for Coaching. - Sure, yeah. - And one of our premier content/competitive squads, they're almost like an elevated, the vibe I get from the shuffle squad is they're almost like a gaming house, I feel like. - Yeah. - They don't all link together. - Yeah, content team. - That's kind of how it strikes me, but they've got a really good business acumen vision recently, it's partnered with GameStop. And GameStop actually does have direct partnerships with Pokemon for certain promos and certain products. So maybe there is something there where GameStop might be the first Primo sponsor. I just know that working with TPCI, the Pokemon Company International, is it's difficult to get all of the contracts approved through the parent company in Japan, TPC. So I can understand there's a massive barrier entry there where Pokemon doesn't need sponsorship, they don't need the money, and are other brands willing to bend the knee and play by their rules? - That's a very good question. - Show, how about you, VGC and esports, what is it looking like over there? - Yeah, I think a wolf is doing, right? - Yeah. - I think our original question of, is Pokemon esports/should Pokemon be esports? I think it's inherently, yes. Like the original line of the Pokemon theme, so I want to be the very best like no one ever was, right? From the beginning, Pokemon is- - The first line is- (indistinct) (laughing) - And yeah, that is right, that's right. - That might be more esports in the sense, I'm not gonna lie. (laughing) - From the beginning, Pokemon has been competitive. Like, you know, you don't advance the game through catching and getting a higher friendship with your Pokemon, you get it through deep, one-on-one battles with Brock and Misty and Lieutenant Surge and the credits roll after you beat the championship, not after you collect every Pokemon in the Pokedex, right? - Okay. - So I think- - Okay. - The game is inherently competitive and we should try our best and we have done a great job. I think just the competitive, the Pokemon theme and TBCI and everybody over the last, you know, however long the 15 years that competitive Pokemon has been around, that like getting more people to understand the inherent value of competitive Pokemon is the goal and I don't think it's like Cloud9 coming in and sponsoring some player because that player could go, you know, 03 drop one day. Like, so you sponsor them for Baltimore regionals and then they never get on stream. Nobody gets to see the Cloud9 jersey, right? But if you do it the way Beast Coast has done it or, you know, you mentioned Wolf is having highly competitive players that are also content creators, I think is the way to go about it. And I think this is something that, like Beast Coast, you have James Beck, you have Wolf Glick, you have so many other people. I mean, TCG has a million, right? As far as you were talking about million top level players that are sponsored, like there was NSC, you had Rahul Reddy and John Aang and that crew sponsored by Disguise Gaming for that event, right? - Yeah, that's right. - And so they're content creators, but they're also high level players. So you're, I think that's how esports org should handle. You're covering your bases as either the player does well and you see the jersey on stream and you get the promotion there or if RNG goes against them, which happens in Pokemon, at least as content creators, they're still wearing the jerseys, having the branding on their social medias and stuff. And I think the other way, like having more streamers that get sponsored, like I think the 100 Thieves approach, like when they were getting super big into League of Legends and they had, they started hiring a bunch of YouTube streamers and Twitch streamers and, you know, doing LCS watch parties with their content creators from 100 Thieves so that their audiences would start watching League of Legends and stuff. So I would love if we had more high level players sponsored by orgs and they would do like watch parties, like go to one or two less regionals a year, right? And still stream the regional and still be sponsored by the org and be a part of it and help grow the game. But I think there's a lot of potential growth for Pokemon with esports. - Okay, especially since the massive growth that we've had within the last few years specifically, if anybody was kind of just writing off Pokemon like, yeah, it's whatever, it's small time. We get to celebrate the game. Everybody loves Pokemon, but now it's serious with production value, with the prize money certainly and just the prestige. I know speaking from the TCG side, when it comes to all of those factors all at once for a competitive card game, Pokemon is just blowing everyone else out of the water. We're getting so many people coming over from Yu-Gi-Oh or other card games just trying to get a piece of that pie and we'll have to see if other games take a hint and start to increase their own production. Yu-Gi-Oh, one piece are other big games that have massive IPs, but aren't putting the love and care into their broadcasts and their regional tournaments the way that their player base's wishes they would. - Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. - I think there's something pros and cons, right? Especially with the individual competition for like VG and TCG and Go. I think obviously one of the pros is it's kind of like to animate, right? If you want to be the best, you can be, right? And you can be anybody and just enter in competition in win worlds, right? Whereas I think for kind of a lot of other more, I don't know if traditional is the best word, but the kind of more typical esports you see, right? With the big tier one org sponsor them, like I would put unite in that category, but like other mobas and shoot and stuff like that. Like there's a feasibility of qualifying for worlds and winning it is like way less, right? It's really hard, you need other people that are also good at the game, you know, time to build that communication and skill base and even having a chance to be on a roster like that to go to worlds to potentially win is like very bleak. Like it's not likely for most people, right? Which is why esports worlds are more wins responsive but also from a fan, from a viewer perspective, I would say probably for unite, there's a lot more viewers that are, you know, rooting for a specific team, right? They want their, you know, not even just a lot, they're fans of a team, right? Like I know like when TTV was big and unite, they're a bunch of TTV fans, right? And you know, they're all there, and they know when they're rooting for TTV, they're not trying to win worlds themselves, but for them like TTV winning is like almost them winning, right? Whereas for like, I know for go, I can't speak for TTV, but my guess is you don't have people with you in there, like viewers just like rooting for them, like all, you know, if Kale wins worlds, like if that's a win for us, right? Like that's like-- - It's probably the only exception here, right? - Yeah, yeah. - When it's rolling, like-- - Yeah, it's a full stream. - Yeah, like Tord has a lot of fans and stuff, but like, you know, but those are kind of like the exceptions to the rule, whereas, you know, for the big team games, that's the standard, right? You have people showing up and, you know, and of course, again, there's like pros and cons on both sides, right? - Yeah. - I think the Pokemon dream of being Pokemon Masters, definitely possible and go VG and TCG. But United, it's okay if you're not, right? It's okay as long as you're rooting for your region or you're for your team and stuff like that, 'cause, you know, and that's fine too. So I think that's probably where one of the biggest differences between individual and team go and, you know, kind of coincides with why, you know, tier one orgs are more willing to sponsor team games, right? - Okay. - That makes sense. Richard, I'm curious if you have any thoughts on this. We've discussed it a few times. I don't know if we've ever talked about it on the show. Do you think, 'cause I would say it's very fair to say, Unite is going full steam ahead in the esports direction. We talked about it a lot last episode, but the changes for our competitive format this coming year are going to be very team focused now. Now, where we used to have championship points awarded per player, now they're gonna be awarded per team. So now an orgs incentive to join a team is much higher so they don't just, a team doesn't blow up after every single tournament, you have a whole new five players to sign a contract with. So I'm curious what you think of these changes, the general direction that Unite's going in, but all of Pokemon kind of being more interested in the esports side of things. - Yeah, it's been interesting to hear all of your guys' perspectives on like the individual versus the team aspect of esports is 'cause it's not something I've really thought about a lot because Unite is a team sport, much like all the other esports, not that I, Zwinks is the overall esports knowledge guy. One could say, so I'm pretty excited. I do feel like Pokemon has leaned into, I feel like when you say esports, it's like sponsorships, like orgs. - That's great. It's like what we're talking about a lot. - Yeah, so it, but overall it just feels like Pokemon is like leaning in because Unite is so different than everything else. Like even having a LAN is like so much more complicated for us because we have people who, people who play on their phones, people play on their switches, people playing with their joycans. One guy wants to play handheld, I don't know. Like it's even just legit. - I want to play handheld at Worlds? - There, we have multiple players. It's like my hair, Kayla, but it's so bad. - That's impressive, they're even here to do that. - They're probably better on handheld than I am. - It's like the worst of both options. You're playing on the worst hardware without using the controller, which is the only benefit of playing on the Switch. - I like, people do like the loose joycans and like their arms are like over here. They're like playing, yeah, it's crazy. - Just even from a logistic perspective, it's kind of a huge lift. So the fact that they're, we've basically been adding like adding a LAN every year, I guess, with like, or like at least adding like in-person things like we added Final Stretch this past year, which was like another lift. Even EUIC, like they totally re-hauled it last year and they're like keeping it and trying to make it more global. So it just feels like, I'm really excited about the direction it's going. It feels like Pokemon is investing in Unite from like they're willing to change things every year. They're listening to feedback. Like they are actually been pretty flexible, especially the whoever's running like UCS, like our competitive circuit, like it is actually impressive to me how much they're willing to like do and change and adapt. So I think it's all pretty exciting. And I like the, I'm overall positive on the changes. Obviously LAIC is lit. That's so sick. I love that we're giving something for Latam because they love this game. And I think that's going to be so hype. So, I'm pretty excited. - Yeah, Latam will have to be game. - Yeah. - I can't wait for the little baby. - Let's go. - Are you just proud for sure? - Yeah, whatever fusion like the Latam team that got top four was like on the stream. Like the chat just like, it was like Spanish. Like it just blew up. It was so fun. Yeah, it was awesome. - Yeah, they love that team. I speak of people who just show up to cheer on a specific org, right? Like they love the, yeah. - I, this is my, the part of the show where I am like the cautious, trepidatious one into the esports side of things. - Yeah. - Joe, you said it before, I completely agree. Pokemon has always been esports. Like ever since they've done competitions, you were correct. The thing is, I, with some of the changes, specifically to Unite, I don't know about some of the other changes, but they are going more esports less Pokemon. And what I mean by that is obviously all the other games you've added instead of, well, we added I suppose for the old heads out there, but like a championship points, not a threshold anymore that you have to pass, but a, however many players into the top of the ranking. And Unite moving in a similar fashion. So because of that, it definitely changes some of just like the feelings and vibes towards worlds, not necessarily in a bad way, but different than what it used to be. The thing that I look at, when I look at play Pokemon as a whole, if I include Unite, TCG, if you just didn't go, the thing I think of first and foremost is Smash Majors. Super Smash Bros is one of my favorite esports of all time. I love it. Melee, Ultimate, I love following it. I really think there's got some of the best stuff going. If a Smash player, and I've talked to them a lot, when they look at competitive Pokemon, it's like a dream come true. It is the aspect of, it is giant open tournaments all the time, everywhere, and there's the game developer backing it. Like it is literally the dream come true for that world, but like Smash Bros has existed for however many years with zero backing from the developer, you know, Nintendo doing nothing for them, but they're still caught in an organization and a scene that's amazing, they look at Pokemon and being like, that is, we got it, you know? Like we have the giant open tournaments all the time throughout the world in different spots, try to get as many local opportunities for players to be involved. And then we also have that like high level competition level, you stick around until the internationals on Championship Sunday, you get to see like the best of the best play, you know what I mean? Like we don't really have many invitationals as a part of our competitive circuits and things like that. Like almost every other esports does other than Smash Bros, right? But some of these directions we're going in could lead that way. And I don't know, I just, I really like competitive Pokemon and I like the, I love the open tournament feel. So that's gonna work. - And I know that with these changes, with Pokemon may be moving more towards making world Championship qualifications harder, they are just furthering that prestige, right there. The prestige of making that a qualification, but you're also favoring your long-term players. You don't get as much of the anybody can show up and do well and jump in. At least for Pokemon TCG certainly, our long-time players continue to perform. They have that seasoning and that Genesee Kwa that allows them to consistently read the meta to consistently outplay and just the sort of legacy knowledge that can't be taught. - And that's a good thing, I think. - I do think that's a great thing for the game. - And with, as Joe was talking about, as Caleb was talking about, with organizations needing these individual players to have strong brands, be content creators, maybe we'll have this breakout star of a legacy skilled player getting into a very strong content position like Wolf, but for every game toward infamously, isn't like a huge streamer or anything. He has some coaching, he does his own thing, but he generally, from what I understand, keeps to himself and comes out of the woodwork to win tournaments and then goes back into hibernation. - So cool, so badass. - Yeah, it comes to the way that you evaluate the prestige of these positions going forward. It means that the esports are coming, right? You're making it more difficult. And as the tournaments become less, not everybody's gonna show up to win and you get more respect on the competitors, the viewers are also going to begin to attach more and more of their hopes and identities onto their favorite players, I think. The way that in Super Smash Brothers, we've got people who go super hard for Mango or for me, personally, I'm like, "Omsa," whenever I see the YouTube algorithm serving me up one of his games from a major, I'm like, "Oh, I gotta see how this set went." - Of course, yeah. - And I technically friend of the show, very old school Unite mics are, we have. Jupe's next commentates Mango playing a Unite game. It's like our best performing video on the channel. - It's really good, go back and watch it, it's a lot of fun. (laughs) - So, I definitely get it. Yeah, having the high skill ceiling and the reward and prestige is, I think that extra ingredient that doesn't really get talked about when it comes to making a good esports. And I know specifically from the production standpoint, Pokemon have been really striving to try and identify players that have good brands and good potential storylines and drum them up throughout the season. So, viewers at home, you're gonna be seeing a lot of this certainly as we head into the new regional championship circuit, the production's going to be hopefully spinning up more, highlight reels and we, you know, they're always doing all kinds of footage, like, especially in Honolulu, at almost every high level player, we had some interview footage or just some b-roll cut together to build up that hype and I know that they really care about that sort of hero building for our viewers at home. - That's cool. Yeah, yay. Sometimes I envy you all on Swiss so you can fit more content into your broadcast and other times, I'm like, "Ah, thank goodness." (laughs) I just have a bracket and we can just streamline games very, very quickly, but it's a give-it-take. But okay, we have gone pretty long in this episode, so I wanna end things off with just a bit of a rapid fire round. Let's do some more fun questions and let our hair down. We had the whole esports conversation. Now we can all relax and talk a little bit. - Whose game's the best? Whose game is the best? Bridget? - I was thinking. - That is so funny. - Pretty chill. (laughter) Oh, that's one for the video watchers, so make sure to go to youtube.com/unite-mikes to go watch that bit. All right, Bridget, what makes you unite the best game out of all four titles? Rapid fire round, by the way, everybody. - We're the most different and our crowd's the best. It's fun. - All right, Jijit. Zevenon, I guess you could try. What makes Vijit the best? - Yeah, I think VGC, the amount of decisions that go in every single turn, the amount of decisions in team building and how. So two players can play the same six Pokemon completely differently. I think there is a rush to the intelligent back and forth in VGC that is unlike any other video game I've ever experienced. - Okay, bold move to use mirror matches to prove your point, put Scarzig, how about you? What makes TCG the best? - TCG, we're the OG, the original, the collectability, the original FAD. We set the stage and now you've got your cards, you can just collect them if you want, even if they rotate out, you still got those good memories. Most accessible game, I think, we're actually just about to print one of their R2R1 decks for like 30 bucks, so you can jump right into the game and start playing a good deck and have fun. - Okay, okay. Unites a free download. Kayla Peng, what about Pokemon Go? - Pokemon Go is also a free download, but there's a lot of ways to spend money on the game. - Sure is an accessible game. - Yeah, I'm not, I would. - We had that conversation a few months ago. (laughing) - I would say it's probably the easiest of the games in terms of, you know, understanding what's going on and picking it up and just kind of finding, you know, figuring out how to play it. I think on the higher tier level, it gets a lot more complex on the granular level, but I think as a viewer, it's pretty easy to watch and it's quick, so I think, yeah, after we finish a whole series on stream, I looked over and Aaron's saying in Sage and Park had just wrapped out the first game, so I was like, "Wow, there's no going on." So our game's too quick, yeah. - Yeah, that's cool. - All right, I think that's a good match. I've always thought, I don't know why Go, it's so fast. Why don't I just play with all six of your Pokemon? - Conversations from a different time. - You know? (laughing) - Yeah, some thoughts on that too. - All right, another episode if you want to talk about it. Okay, Zemanon, if you could go pro in any of the four Pokemon titles, which one would it be? - Ooh, that's a good one. - And I define pro by like, in our game, I mean, I would say like winning an IC or top aiding at Worlds in any of the games. - What would you do? - Oh, that's so tough. I mean, I probably, my heart would say you know, but my wallet would say the trading card game, so I'd make more money. So I'm gonna stick with the top aiding world in TCG. - All right, sounds good. - Okay, this is Garzaek. I mean, if you can top eight, the funny thing too, if you have a guaranteed token that says, I top eight world, you can bring the spiciest meme and be like, I'm gonna top eight TCG with this crazy pile of attack. - Not exactly the question, but I see where we're going. - No, go pro, I think. - Samantha, EG, EG. - Okay. - I've been very curious about jumping in and I think that the team building and the flexibility, getting that big stage in park moment of bringing, you know, the cue bone and popping off is really important to me as a player. - Okay, let's go. We have some endeavor shenanigans, I think. All right, Caleb, how about you? - That would definitely be unite. It's a team aspect that I think makes it super fun, right? Like, you know, it's more than just waiting for yourself, but accomplishing something as a group is a whole different feeling. - And I really tried and failed, so. (laughing) - All right, well, this is very brilliant. Bridget, Bridget, how about you? - Okay, do any of the other, I would assume not, no one else gets like a media day at Worlds, right? There's the Unite teams. - Yeah, before championships Sunday, they get some media stuff. Like, they get the competitors, - That's harder. - That was my incentive to pitch it, right? - 'Cause you get a media day? - It's so fun, yes. - It is so fun. - We asked them very dumb questions. Well, our socials asked them very dumb questions. We have a lot of fun, yeah. - Yeah, I want funny picks. - Okay, very? - Professionally taken by Pokemon. - Yes, good, you get that in any title, but yeah, there's funny questions that might be consistent to Unite. Yeah, mine's Unite, no question. All right, what is the best way to get involved in competing in your game? Entry level, like if we have a Unite viewer watching, but they really want to try competing in VGTCG or Go. And then the same question, just mix it around for any one of your games. What's the easiest thing, the first thing they should try to start doing? We'll start with the app, Scarsing. - Yeah, you just go to the Pokemon websites like Pokemon.com/play, and they have an event locator. So you can see which local game store near you is holding Pokemon TCG tournaments. - Cool. - We have a new set about to come out, Seller Crown, so you can go to a pre-released tournament, just play some matches for fun, and get some cards right away, some of the cards from the newest set, and then go from there, start playing in lead cups, you get special exclusive promos from doing well with those, and getting points towards your world championship, hopefully. But yeah, local game store is where you want to start. - Cool, all right, I'm gonna keep pitching the question, but chat, if you have any questions for any of the commentators about any of the games, feel free to drop them in right now. If we get some, we might ask them. - Joe, Zemannan, what about you for VGTC? - Yeah, I think the simplest answer is the thing that we've been doing for 28 years, playing the video game on the latest hardware, right? Scott and Violet on Nintendo Switch, but if you play the actual video game that's all based around, like you're already halfway there, you already know typing, you already know weaknesses and resistance, you know what Pokemon do, so just do that extra little, extra effort of research, learning what Intimidate and other important abilities are, learning about effort values and how to invest your Pokemon properly and taking them in-game on the ladder in battle stadium. You can take that Meowscorata that you picked at the beginning at your house or whatever and build the team around it. - And now they have rental teams, right? So you can actually just play teams that other people built and say are good and then just try to-- - That's how you learn, you learn why that team is good, why, you know, pros and cons and everything like that. So it's a lot more accessible now than it used to be back in the day. - Yeah, that's sweet, Kayla Pang, have a Pokemon go. - Yeah, I mean, you could just down the app and play the in-game ladder as a way to start, you could do 25 battles per day or something like more depending on a special event, which should keep you pretty busy on most days and then just like what Scarzik said as well, the vent locator to find local tournaments is really important, great way to practice the actual championship series format 'cause in-game ladder you only just bring three Pokemon blind whereas in-game ladder or, whereas that local tournaments are mirroring the championship series. So really great way to kind of dip your toes in and do that before choosing to, you know, buy a flight in a hotel to actual regional tournament, right? 'Cause that could be daunting if that's their first ever tournament that you could play in. - Pretty epic first step, but yeah, that's sweet. - Yes, that'd be crazy. Bridget, how about for Unite? Any advice on how to get started in competing in Unite? - Man, I mean, yeah, it feels so simple, but it's just like, yeah, it's a free game. You download the game. I would say watching the e-Sport, I guess, is pretty helpful. You guys do a really good job explaining what's happening if you're truly interested in competitive itself and not just kind of like in being a little silly goofy guy in the ladder. So yeah, I don't know, I think that. - Okay, fair enough. - Okay, we do have one question for chat. I'm gonna ask this one that I have one more fun question and then we'll get out of here. I promise I won't hold you much longer. Oh, I'm glad seeing you can watch "Spotlights." That is true. Shout out to Gleiborriela's on YouTube. They make really cool Pokemon spotlights, very similar to how the League of Legends does them for Pokemon Unite, fully in-depth videos, and I voiced one for Snorlax. They just got posted. So if you wanna hear it, go check it out. I don't have a link right now, but I'll put one in the description of the episode when we post it. But, okay, this question was really interesting. Might be a not question, not a not question. How do you feel like your game is set up in terms of content creation, especially at the top level? Are top players doing enough to help bring aspiring players into competitive or not? I'm curious, do you think content creators are bringing people into competitive right now? Or no? I think you do, Knight, it's kind of a mixed bag, but I would say for the most part, not really. I don't think many content creators are very competitive focus at the time being. I think a lot of them are more casual focused and then we have some that kinda dabble in both. Chris Heroes is probably the best for both. Obviously, Spraggles works full-time in doing commentary and casting, so that will bring in that audience. But he also, most of his content revolves around the casual experience and the solo queue experience, but I'm hoping to make more content too, so hopefully I'll help with that too. But anyway, Kayla, how about you? Do you think Go content creators are more focused on casual, are more focused on competitive? It's kind of a little bit like we said about Unite. I think obviously, players that do well, especially at Worlds or at our big tournaments, some of them will get into streaming because of that. Like our previous World Champion, he got into streaming, so I'm making YouTube videos and content as well to get more players into it, which is great. But there are also definitely a lot of content creators that just put out content for content sake and run kind of fun, unique Pokemon that might not be that good, but they make them work or they make interesting videos on they make them entertaining for entertainment purposes. So it's kind of a mix of both, right? 'Cause kind of like Unite, there's that in-game ladder that's more casual base, right? Obviously it's competitive, but it's not the same thing as official format, so and more players are gonna gravitate towards that over the official Championship Series format, but there's a little bit of crossover with some content creators and yeah, so kind of a similar response as you had for Unite. - Okay, cool, how about you Skarzig for TCG? TCG are top level competitors, when they make content, generally it's with the mind of somebody who's already invested in the game, trying to get into learning the best stack, understanding why it's the best stack, just bringing their game to the next level, just watching gameplay, having meta breakdowns or just again taking advantage of their individual coaching. But when it comes to onboarding and facilitating new players, I definitely want to give a special shout out here to Pumpkin Amy. - Yeah, she's great. - Yeah, she's really good at making practical videos that other content creators wouldn't really think to make, how to find the local tournament, how to sign up for that tournament, good ways to prep for your first tournament, how to sign up for a regional, things like that that have been very fundamental and I know a lot of players have posted about how helpful those videos have been, and I think Pokemon overall makes a lot of great beginner and onboarding content, comes directly from the source. We just have a trainer tour, which is like a special bus tour, like reality show they did, where they had some brand new trainers just kind of building their decks around their favorite Pokemon, nothing super high level competitive, but jumping in and playing, even the Pokemon Play Lab, which I mentioned earlier, specifically for that purpose, when it comes to Pokemon TCG. So I think the onboarding mostly for our game has come directly from the source. - Okay, fair enough. And then Joe, final question to you, for VGC, do you think that most content creators are focused on casual, or do you think they are focused more on the competitive side of things? - I think they're trying their best. - Okay. - I think that's the worst way. - Okay, yeah, yeah, all of them. - I think the competitive streamers are, and content creators are trying, they're just so overwhelmed and dwarfed in size compared to shiny hunting, and nuzzlocks, and all these hardcore challenges, and all these things that, they just take up so much of the Pokemon ecosystem online that like, you have people playing, playing under the Pokemon Scarlet and Violet category on Twitch, but they're playing a crystal randomizer or whatever, right? Like, but they're under the Scarlet and Violet, which is what we're playing on, but they're under the same category, or like, shiny hunting, X and Y, and stuff like that. So, kinda creators, they're trying their best, but I would say it's probably more casual, than competitive, and it's so tough, because a lot of times, like, I know when I was getting into Go, and I was 20 at the regional, I was just looking at every Pokemon I had in Go, that was like, somewhat competitive viable, looking up, like, competitive GBL ranked videos of like, you know, this Pokemon, this Pokemon, and like, there was a bunch of content of every single Pokemon out there, even if they're not great, people are still making videos of each Pokemon, and how you can use it in GBL, and what Pokemon to bear with, and stuff. But it's tough, like, nobody in BGC is looking up an Incineroar guide, right? Like, they're gonna look up-- - Yeah. (laughing) - We're gonna look up, like, they're gonna look up, like a, I don't know, Hasuian Samurai video, but like, the amount of people that have wanted to know what, right, the amount of people that want that obscure video, compared to the amount of people that want to play BGC at the high level, it's just the views are not there for you to put effort into finding, you know, those little needles in the haystack. So, we're trying the best, but, you know, shiny hunting and nuzlocs, that is a behemoth to try to get over. - Yeah. - Fair enough. Fair enough. Okay, final question, and I'm sorry, this is a bit of a steal from you, Joe. So, I, this was one of my, by the way, shout out to the OCO podcast, I'll get you to plug everything when we end off the show, I adore the OCO podcast with you and Sierra. It is an incredible show all covering all VGC. You had one of the coolest questions ever, and I really enjoyed it. I think it was a viewer submitted it. It was Allah, the NBA or NHL or MLB, all have a logo, right, with a silhouette of a player in the middle of it. Usually this player is a famous player, like NBA, it's like Jerry West or whatever, and it's like, it's just a silhouette of a player in there. If every Pokemon title had one, what Pokemon would be like the iconic logo for it. So, example, the Overwatch League they used to the character Tracer to show off the Overwatch League. - Oh, yeah. - Overwatch contenders, they're like tier two, use the character Genji, and they like use it in like, it's like a samurai, like a cyborg ninja kind of look. Very, very fun, just to kind of stylize in the logo. What Pokemon for each of our games do you think would be a cool logo-esque Pokemon? Joe, you already had to answer this question, so, maybe it's changed for you, but what would you say for VGC? Well, like I said, VGC had an epic logo. What would the Pokemon be? - So, first of all, Sierra says hi. She wanted to be sure that I got the shout out on the podcast. She probably should get a whole roast to me again. (laughing) - I do remember the context of what you're talking about. It was the new season reveal for Analyzano, and they had the four different OGRPOM forms with the four different games, and going through it the whole season and stuff like that. And I said, OGRPOM could be like, the competitive Pokemon mascot or something. You see an image of OGRPOM, it's friendly, it's different, you know, different designs and colors and stuff. Like, that could be the idea. Like, you see Pikachu, that's Pokemon, but if you see OGRPOM, that is competitive Pokemon, right? Sierra didn't like that answer. She doesn't like a lot of things I said. So, that was for Pokemon as a whole, what is it? - Okay, great. It's a great OGRPOM gig, by the way. I love that gig that you guys have that running bit, where she doesn't have her legs under there. - Yeah, is that really bit where she like, can't stand the thing about me? - Yeah, that's what I meant. - It's never the VGC, my answer, it's gotta be Patrick Risue. I think you can do it either. Give me all the Patrick Risue, or I would do like the follow me, having the finger in the air with like the sparks next to it. As you follow me, the Draco meteor away, I think. Either Patrick or the follow me, the finger would be the logo. - Okay. - Yeah, they use that for that classic, kind of hype reel with the statues. Love it. Love that was great. - That was really good. - Okay, Kalebur, Scarzings, either of you have an answer. - I was thinking about TCG. I would, it's a bit generic, but I think it's Charizard. - Okay. - A very recognizable Pokemon, very recognizable silhouette. And just for TCG history, still one of the most sought after and collectible Pokemon cards. - Yeah. - If we went pound for pound viability and just wanted to take a Pokemon from that, it might be Sableye. I'm not a seasoned when it comes to long-term history the way other casters like Kyle or Chip would be, but I think I wouldn't mind Charizard being like the mascot of Pokemon TCG competitive. - That makes a ton of sense to me. I think I'm like fully on board with the Charizard, especially if it's like base set silhouette too. - Yeah. - If you like but they'll like smoke a Bory pose. - Yeah. - Oh, that would be so sick. - We've all seen that Pawn Stars episode, right? - Yeah, exactly. - Exactly. - Awesome. Shout out to that boy Mook for the raid, by the way. - Yeah. - Welcome in. - Okay, Kayla, but how about you for go? Have you thought on this at all? - Yeah, so I think in terms of like viability in the championship series format, it'd probably be a zoom roll. It's been like around since, yeah. It's been around since like the very beginning like VP, like back in December 2018 when it dropped, like I was just like, how the heck you beat this thing, right? Like, 'cause it was just like destroying me even on like the first week he came out or PP came out and it's still like easily won the best Pokemon in Great League. It's just so bulkiness, such great coverage. - I love that. - So I'd probably go with that. Obviously another argument you could make, kind of like Scarzik throwing out Say By there is Dragonite because it's one of the few Pokemon, maybe the only Pokemon that has utility in every single League, Great League, Goshly, Game Master League and who knows down the road, maybe there'll be other leagues involved in the championship series but it is really strong in all three, which is crazy. - I don't know, there's no speculation. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Fire this fan, it's not anything confirmed, that's just my own guess. - All right, no, I like it. - It would probably Dragonite, which would be cool too. And I think a fan favorite for many people as well. Maybe not as fan favorite as Charles are, but you know, Dragon and I still pretty popular, I would say. - I feel like just the way that it kind of works, if we think about all the other sports, like it is very focused on the competition itself, not necessarily the game of basketball or something for the NBA. So I think Azumranil is like the good choice there. I think it just means, right? You got to focus in on the League that has played at the competitive level. I'm not gonna lie, I'm pissed at chat because they took my answer. Hoopa is the perfect, Hoopa is so perfect, the Gold Zone Circle, the little rings. Oh my gosh, it's so good. - What about Cinderace, you know? Like you can little dunk it in a little bit. It kind of looks like the NBA logo. (all laughing) - Yeah, honestly, Cinderace is not a bad silver medalist in this conversation from base set, like release. With the Pokemon that appears in the middle, it went from Zapdos, now it's Requaza. - Yeah, I was gonna say Ray was my answer. - Oh, okay. Yeah, I guess I only, I'm just split on it because there's two. And everything else is like a player, you know? The NBA doesn't have a basketball hoop in the middle. - Well, what all the logos do? Every team, like, ten to the eight of the three and the NBA team logos have a thousand. - Yeah, sports guy, get it. (all laughing) - Cinderace, the logo should be my teammates not coming by at seven, right? - Oh, yeah. (all laughing) - That's how I was talking to you today. - Kramer at getting KO'd. Well, I said someone said Kramer then I said Kramer at getting KO'd. - Yeah, I don't know why. Is this in for any of you, every Pokemon preview that we've ever had with a debut, a new release? It's always just a highlight reels of them knocking cram out. - Again and again and again. Someone at Timmy hates Kramer at, 'cause they're just getting there. - That's funny. - Behind beat every time, it is wild. - Every time. - Okay, awesome. I think we all come up with some good answers. Ray is very good too. I will give it to you. It also might work with the, but who works well with the purple colors? Okay. - Yeah. - I'm biased, I like, I like the colors. - Okay, we're, I'm sticking the, Bridget and I are sticking with the Hoopa trend. And I know Drew's snacks will be pumped about the Hoopa pick as well. So we're overdone 'cause of the line here. Awesome. Okay. Well, I think that brings us to the end of our episode. Let's do a quick round of plugs. Everybody, the sell out, shout out. Whatever you would like to do, stage is yours for each of you. So Kayla Pang, how about you? Where do people find you? And anything to plug? - Yeah. Just Kayla Pang on all socials, except for TikTok. Kind of like Scarzick, I missed the bow on TikTok. So I'm Kayla Pang one. I've been- - Oh, not the one. - Yeah. - The person that does own Kayla Pang is someone in Africa, I believe. I've been messaging him a couple of times and he responds once in a while, but he has not given up the count yet. - Okay, okay. - But we're in the talks, maybe, maybe in the future. But yeah, that's about that for me. And then, yeah, when we have our own podcast for Pokemon Go, it's called The Battle Cats. Cats with a Z in the end podcast. And once in a while, we'll do bets, which is why my hair was bleached for like a couple of months 'cause I lost a bet and that was not a fun time. - Yeah. - A fun time for me, and everybody who watched your show, it was a great, it was a good bet. - It was a very sure, sure. And maybe catch me on occasional grassroots, you know, stream here, they're comfortable. - Yeah. - Just get a, just get a penta KO for me. You know, that's all I want to cast. - That's the best. - I haven't seen, I haven't gotten it yet, but- - It's a high, I've been chasing ever since it happens, you know? - Yes, Skarsig, how about you, where can people find you, and anything to plug? - Yeah, you can find me on YouTube, Skarsig. I'll be uploading a lot more footage for PTCGL, hopefully here soon. You can find me on Twitter, and I've been doing a lot of YouTube thumbnails for some Pokemon channels, and I'll be kind of hush-hush. I'll be maybe taking some art commissions, so if you maybe want to have some Pokemon artwork done, that's kind of become my claim to fame. So hopefully I'll be able to have the bandwidth. If you are curious about that, just reach out to me on Twitter, and maybe we'll talk on that angle, but appreciate y'all. And yeah, that's pretty much it. And looking forward to seeing me on, hopefully some other games, you know? - Ooh, okay, lots of teases from Skarsig today, I love it. - Seven on, how about you, where can people find you? And all that good stuff. - Yeah, you can call me on Twitter and Twitch, as well @zemonon, X-E-M-I-N-A-N. I also have a podcast for competitive VGC called the OCO podcast. Me and my co-host, Ciara Dawn, one of our co-casters. We upload every Thursday at noon, except sometimes when it doesn't happen, but for the most part, it does. - Can't relate. (laughing) - I am such a great guy. - Sometimes it's one o'clock, sometimes it's three o'clock, sometimes it's Friday, you know, it happens, but it is typically Thursdays at noon that will happen on their website. - Yeah, you're among good company right now. Don't worry, we're all there, we're all there with you. Okay, awesome, make sure to go follow all these people. Bridget, unfortunately, doofsex is not here to shout out your Twitter, and I don't know how to spell it, so where can people find you online? - It's a big Bridget, how could you forget? (laughing) - It's so awesome. - It's so awesome. - All right, big Bridget on Twitter for you. I think for Unite Mike's plugs, the only thing, I'm @zwingscast on Twitter, but the only big thing is mark your calendars, we've now locked in a date, October 19th. We are running back the Unite Mike's charity classic. This is a 16-hour stream that we're doing for the second year in a row for a different charity. We did the Maui Food Bank last year, this year we're gonna do an awesome organization that I really love called Hope for the Day. We are gonna be working with them to do a big stream, and there is always a big Unite tournament as a part of it. Last year, I think both Caleb Pegg and Zevidol, you were both playing some Unite with us post tournament, which was so much fun. We're gonna be running back some of those caster customs, so be on the lookout, but October 19th, be there or be square. It's gonna be an awesome event. We're gonna have a lot more announcements coming out very soon, and Unite Mike's is making another unique merch item. I'm not saying what it is. Ooh, we have another unique merch item. - Not the unique merch item. - Scarsi got the T's like 12 things. I'm gonna T's one. All right, we will be back next episode. Hopefully we know what championship boys do in our game then, but until then, we'll see you all next time. Bye-bye. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music)