- Welcome back everyone to the frontline with Joe and Joe. Joe Basilow and Joe Recinello, you're exactly right Joe. - We work for the man upstairs as you do. - You're setting me up quite well. You just gave me an alley youth. - The greatest revolutionary act to commit right now is to open your mouth and speak the truth. - Whether you're an academic or you're a regular guy, you have to be fearless. - And once more, dear brothers and sisters, let us go into the breach. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Hello again everyone and welcome back to the frontline with Joe and Joe. Joe Basilow as always joined by Joe Recinello. And once more, dear brothers and sisters, let us go into the breach on the Veritas Catholic Radio Network, 1350 on your AM dial, 103.9 on your FM dial, spreading the truth of the Catholic faith to the New York City metropolitan area. Please download the app, share it with your friends. You have access to all of our station's original programming and EWTN content. We are an EWTN affiliate. And also wherever you see Joe and I, Rumble, X, Facebook, YouTube, please share, like, subscribe, do all that fun stuff. So conversations like the one we're gonna have today and all of our other conversations. We'd like to get out to a wider audience. We'd appreciate your help with that. So today we're very pleased and honored to be welcoming for the first time to the frontline with Joe and Joe, Stephanie Gray-Conners. And we're gonna be discussing her new book out from Emmaus Road Publishing. My Body For You, a pro-life message for a post-row world. Now, Joe and I have covered this on the show before. We're at now that Roe versus Wade, that nobody thought, or many people thought was not gonna be overturned. Obviously it did. We're seeing some good things. We're seeing some not so good things. Stephanie's at the forefront of this, okay? And she's got her finger on the pulse of this. And that's what we're gonna be discussing. 'Cause we have to address some of the not so good things that are going on now in the post-row world. So very quickly, I wanna give Stephanie a quick bio for our audience. Stephanie Gray-Conners is a seasoned and international speaker who began presenting at the age of 18. She's given over 1,000 pro-life presentations over two decades across North America, as well as the UK, Europe, and Latin America. She's debated abortion advocates such as physicians who do abortions, which includes debating late term abortionist, Dr. Fraser Fellows. She's also debated, I don't know how you had the patients to do this, Stephanie. She's also debated Peter Singer, Princeton Philosophy Professor, and I can go on and on about that guy. Dr. Malcolm Potts, the first medical director for International Planned Parenthood Federation. Again, Stephanie, we'll get into it, but I'm sure you have a lot more patients than both Joe and myself, because I could not stand or sit on a stage with those people. Stephanie is authored a number of books, including her latest, as we said, from Emmaus Road Publishing, called "My Body for You, A Pro Life Message" for a post-row world Stephanie Gray-Conners. Welcome to the front line with Joe and Joe, our sister. - Well, thank you so much. You know, I feel like every day I'm on the front line with Joe because my husband has your great name as well, so. - Awesome. This is a beautiful thing. So it's, Joe and Sinello, I'm gonna hand it over to you, we'll get rocking. - We always start with prayer, the name of the father, son, Holy Spirit, and man. Remember, almost gracious, Virgin Mary never wasn't known that anyone who sought your help or sought your intercession was left unaided, inspired by this confidence. We fly into you, a virgin, a virgin, so our mother. She would come for you, we stand sinful and sorrowful. Mother, the word, and car night despise not our petitions within your clemency here in answer to say, "Man, the name of the father, son, Holy Spirit, and man." Well, Stephanie, before you came on, Joe and I were talking, we were talking about some of the debates that you've had, and some of these people are serious people. I mean, not that we're not, like, but what I mean by that is like teaching at Princeton, surgeons, I mean, we have a lot of people that come on this show, but they're really serious. And this is why I'm bringing this up, because the truth, and this is what I wanna basically impart to people who are listening, the truth is like a lion, it defends itself. People should not be intimidated, because I've gotten into some conversations with people in my day as well. I'm a crazy person from New Jersey, that's what we do. And ultimately, many of these people are infinitely more intelligent than me, in terms of like pure IQ, resume. I mean, I went to graduate school, I know how to read, I'm a fairly intelligent guy, but I'm talking about some serious people, but the truth is like a lion, it defends itself. I remember when croppy was on the scene, and he was like, Hilary Clinton wouldn't last 10 minutes with me in a debate on abortion. He's right, I got news for you. No one's gonna last 10 minutes with me. They're not gonna last, because the truth speaks for itself, and that's what you do, and I love it. Talk about that, 'cause I think people sometimes are intimidated, they're like, oh, this person, they went to Harvard, I don't care where you went to school. You're on the wrong end of history. This is not the truth, and you do that, talk about it. - Mm, thank you, yeah. I agree, in the early years, my very first debate, I was 22 years old, and I was debating a 10-year professor who, back in Canada, where I'm originally from, had one, what's called the Order of Canada, which is a very prestigious government medal that the Canadian government gives to people, and he was decades old as a professor, and I remember initially feeling intimidated, like, who am I as a 22-year-old girl? But you know, I did my research, I did my homework, I prepared for the debate, of course, I prayed, so I was spiritually ready as well, and I got up there, and I realized, oh yeah, why did I feel intimidated? As you've said, the truth is the most powerful weapon that we have, so sure, you could have initials after your name, you could go to a prestigious university, but at the end of the day, if what you're defending is lies, it's not going to stand the test of time. So, over the years then, yes, as my speaking expanded and my debate opponents broadened, it came to a point where I realized, I have the truth on my side, and that is incredibly powerful, and I just need to make sure I'm spiritually ready for the spiritual battle that proclaiming this truth will invite, because it is a spiritual battle. I do remember the first time I debated an abortionist, it was at the University of Minnesota, and I had debated many abortion supporters, but of course, this was a man who was coming to do the debate from work, where he had, you know, was about to use his mouth to defend abortion, but had previously hours before used his hands to end the lives of innocent children. And I remember feeling intimidated about that debate just because I was up against someone who does that, and before the debate, I felt incredibly nervous and a lot of agitation, but I prayed and I prepared, and when the debate began, although I was feeling that internally, my sense of him was that he was just calm, cool, and collected, like he, it's just up there, but the fascinating thing was, as the debate progressed, I felt this tangible peace completely wash over me, I became more calm, and he became visibly agitated and upset, and it was like this total flip was happening as truth was being proclaimed on my part, so the fruit of that was peace, and as lies were being proclaimed on his part, and the fruit of that is agitation. So, yeah, we need to remember the words John Paul II said all the time, which was, "Be not afraid." - Be not afraid, that's right. Stephanie Gray Connors, you're not afraid, and you wrote the book, "My Body for You," a pro-life message for a postural world. I've noticed that, Joe and I have said a million times Stephanie on the show, they've lost every argument, they're not interested in an argument anymore. If you see a lot of the YouTube videos that go around with some of the other pro-life speakers out there, like I guess, Kristen Hawkins and others, the arguments they're getting in a campus setting, university setting, are all from emotion. There is no argument, you stood on a stage with Peter Singer, he's supposedly a philosopher. And he doesn't understand the logic that a human life begins at birth, that's why they have to, or excuse me, human life begins a conception. - Yeah. - And so that's why they have to, they have to change, they read the fine, because they've lost every argument, they have to redefine what human life is. - Right, so, yeah, some of us are-- - Go ahead, please. - Sure, someone like Singer, you know, he will try to delineate between a human being versus a human person, and the reality is, if you are a member of the human family, you are a human person. But, that's right, people like him will say, well, maybe something's genetically human, but it's not going to get the protections legally of personhood until they have advanced physically or intellectually to a certain level. That he deems worthy of protection. - But doesn't that mean, Stephanie, I'm sorry, but doesn't that mean that anybody could be a victim? Because every human being, both through that stage of development. - Well, exactly, and then it becomes, it becomes a matter of who has the most power. So he can come up with criteria that excludes the preborn, and actually a few born people as well, early infants and so forth, that he even admitted he would support euthanasia for. But then someone else could come along more powerful than he that draws the line at the age of five, or draws the line just before puberty, where you still haven't completed your development. - Stephanie, how about they draw the line at Princeton professors? - You're right, right. - I'm not even joking, because it's when you decide that a baby in the womb is a human being, but not a human person, and you can redefine what a human being is, that's arbitrary as far as I'm concerned. So you being a Princeton professor, I could be just as arbitrary. If through my will to power, if I was an atheist, Nietzschean, I decided that Princeton professors that I don't like are now an unprotected class under the law. According to Peter Singer's standards, I should be able to get out the guillotine, put his head in it, and chop it off. According to his standards. - If you can gain enough public opinion for your arbitrary position and get enough power, then you can implement terrible atrocities, which is why one of the things I've done for the history of my career, is compare abortion to historical human rights violations, things like the Holocaust, the slavery of black people. In order to make the point that at the time those injustices occurred, the victim class was deemed to be inferior to the victimizers. They were deemed to be subhuman parasites. During the Rwandan genocide, Tutsis were called cockroaches. During abortion, I've debated abortion upon supporters who call preborn children parasites. So this idea that if something is vermin, if it's parasitic, we would normally exterminate it, then we can justify doing that to the thing we've labeled that way. And so if it was wrong to dehumanize human beings historically and deny them their personhood status based on skin color, based on ethnicity, based on religion, then I would argue it's wrong to do the same presently with the preborn, denying them personhood status, ultimately based on age. If someone says preborn children might be human but not persons, because they can't think the way we think. They can't talk the way we talk. They can't feel pain like we can feel pain. The reality is they can't think talk or feel pain the way we could right now, simply because they haven't developed those structures necessary to the degree we have, and they haven't developed that yet because of their age. So ultimately to deny preborn children personhood status based on how they function is to deny them personhood status based on age, which would be age discrimination. So if sex discrimination and ethnic discrimination and religious discrimination is wrong, I would say age discrimination is wrong as well. - Absolutely, Stephanie, great honors. I apologize for going on my rant there. I don't want to put Peter Sigur's head into guillotine. I just want to be clear to everybody out there. But the guy is a nauseating guy. Joe Restonello, where do you want to go? - You said something, Stephanie, I want to kind of blow out a little bit. You said justify. Years ago in this debate, they would say it's not a child. They'd say it's a lump of sales. Well, I have five children. I've gone to the doctor with my wife. I've seen sonograms. It's a child, got news for you. It can't even be denied. Particularly in the later stages of development, which by the way, it's legal in many places in America to terminate the life of that particular child. With that said, you put forth a lot of good arguments. In fact, I think they're absolutely, positively rock solid. This is what I'm going to put forth. It doesn't matter. And I'm interested in your response. And this is why. Because abortion is not about the child. It's about sex. It's a rationalization. I want to have casual sex before marriage. I want to have sex during marriage. Sometimes I don't want to have the kid. Obviously sex produces children. It's reality, biological reality. So I need an out. Put forth any argument you want. I choose to ignore it. I don't care if you're logical. I don't even care if you call it a child. Because now they're not even pretending anymore. Yeah, they don't pretend anymore. It's about sex. And if you ask me, that is how it has to be basically addressed. If we really want to address, it's like many things in this culture that we Joe and I address. You could take a rubber ball. It's like throwing it up against the wall. It bounces right back. I'm not hearing it because I want to do what I want to do. And I will rationalize it and justify it because ultimately that's just self-preservation to justify me. I am who I am and I'm not going to change. I'm not going to change because of Joe Piscilla. I'm not going to change because of Stephanie and I'm not going to change because of anybody else or even if the argument's right. What are your thoughts to that? Because in my view, that's what this is about. Yeah, that definitely is a major factor in the debate. I think, you know, the way to look at it is when it comes to fighting abortion, obviously we can address arguments head on as we're hearing them. People making the claim it's not a child, even though as you're pointing out, some people say it's a child and I can kill it anyways, you know? But if you look at how we fight drugs or we should fight drugs, you know, there's multiple levels. We're going to need paramedics responding to overdoses, but we actually need to do drug awareness early on. So kids don't even get into drugs and we're going to need to have a stronger police force and all kinds of things. And you have a multifaceted approach to address the problem. So the same is true in responding to the crisis of abortion. We, you know, where people are directly making claims to defend and justify the ending of the youngest of our kind's lives, we need to respond to that. But we need that multifaceted approach and we need to realize there's other factors of play, which you've rightly pointed out, that people are justifying abortion on the basis of wanting a certain lifestyle, that if abortion isn't available to them, will be very difficult to continue that lifestyle. So if you think if someone is in a loving, committed, permanent relationship, they want children with the person they're with, and they welcome such children, but we're living in a hookup culture where people are having sex with literal strangers, where they do not even want that person's child, let alone if they can identify which person's child it is if they've had sex with four different people in one week. So people are making choices that is bringing into existence human beings who would be coming into less than ideal circumstances. Even as pro-lifers, we can admit it's not an ideal circumstance to be raised outside of a loving, permanent relationship. But just because it's not ideal doesn't mean the answer is homicide. But unfortunately, a lot of people are going to justify homicide on the basis of these less than ideal circumstances, which is why part of the multifaceted approach then in making a truly pro-life culture, a culture of life, is to address sexual promiscuity and a disordered understanding of what sexual relationships are for. - I wanna just expand on that. - Oh, sure. - Because like ultimately we have to, as Catholics, I'm open to life, I've been married 10 plus years, never contraceptive ever, didn't have sex with my wife before we got married, I have five children, we lost two, married 10 years. We're open to life, you know what I mean? Full on. We have to convince people of that. You see, as Catholics, you see, and I'm gonna be honest, we're not, and I'm gonna tell you why, because we're not living it. Catholics aren't doing that. I went to a Catholic university. I got married later in life. I have friends that got married in their twenties. They have two kids. I got news for you that's impossible. It's impossible, unless there's a medical issue. - Yeah, I was gonna say, there could be. I mean, there are people that have unexplained secondary infertility, they have their first child, and then-- - That happens, that happens, and there's medical issues, and I will give them a percentage of, well, you know, I'm not a doctor, I'm not, you know, statistician, but in normal circumstances, it's impossible. It's impossible. You're contraceptive, you're not fulfilling your vows as a Catholic, which means your marriage is in sacramental, which means it's susceptible to the devil, it's susceptible to sin because you are not putting on the armor of God for your spouse. That's what that is, and that's why marriage is full of heart. So we as Catholics have to show people what it means to be for life, and then maybe people will say, gosh, my marriage stinks, I am miserable. Damn, what's wrong? Why is this guy? Why is this gal have a good marriage? I'm interested in that conversation, because I'll be honest with you, I think we can do better. We don't even believe what the church teaches, Stephanie. Many Catholics don't believe it. - Yeah, there is a lot of formation that is needed. People are unfortunately in this time where we have access to so much information at our fingertips on the internet, people are profoundly uneducated and catechized when it comes to the church's sexual teachings. And I think we need to remember that at the end of the day, we human beings are wired to be attracted to the good, the true, and the beautiful, and to be repulsed by the ugly. And our culture has provided a counterfeit where people think avoiding children is going to be the attractive, beautiful thing. But the reality is there's a lot of miserable, older people who wished that they had been open to life in their younger years and wished that they were now surrounded by children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren that they were close to having when they were younger. And the reality is the most beautiful thing is to be in a loving relationship, a communion of persons where you can define math and one plus one can suddenly equal three with a new life. And then it goes on and on and on with more lives. So I think there is a great need to present family life as that which is good and true and beautiful. And people do notice that. We have, where I live, just a wonderful group of family friends, couples that are all in the same stage of life, newlyweds in the last few years, like my husband and I all having already on their at least second child. I mean, we're on our sixth, but four of them are in heaven. So we're around all these young couples and there's something that people notice about the young families at our church, that they're alive and they're happy. And it's not that life is always perfect. You know, with the five kids you're raising, it's not easy, there are times of exhaustion. But the overarching disposition and experience is one of joy and beauty and fulfillment. And so the more we present that to the culture, that this is fulfilling, that it is, you know, joy filled to be in awe and wonder of the child that you've brought into the world who is discovering amazing things and that the more we present that, people who don't have that will say, oh, that's different. They have something I don't have. And I like that. I'm attracted to that. That's what we need to present. - Well, there's a death. The emptying that you mentioned, the hookup culture before you could call it, it goes back to the, you know, the sexual liberation movement in the 1960s. My, our Joe and my generation is shot, okay? 'Cause we grew up with the singer who calls herself Madonna, whose sole purpose, but she's a puppet, okay? Her sole purpose was to put up there to say, to corrupt the morals of Catholic girls. That's why she got paid all that money over the years. 'Cause she's not a very good singer. She's not a very good dancer. She's an awesome blast femur, okay? And she sells sex like nobody's business, but our generation, my generation, Joe, we're shot, okay? We can only pray that people come. And again, I don't judge, 'cause I lived that for 20 years of my life when I was not practicing our Catholic faith. And thank God the Lord punished me, all right? So to bring me back. But our generation is not gonna be convinced by this. Some will, most won't, all right? As Joe mentioned, if you talk to over 50% of Catholics, Stephanie Gray-Connor's joining us here at the front line with Joe and Joe, over 50% of Catholics agree with contraception. Over 50%, it might even be more than that. So, but the newer generation, and again, whether you go to Latin Mass, or whether you go, I'm in Arizona now, I got to add a dodge about two years ago. So I'm in Arizona. And very vibrant dynamic Catholic community around here. - Yeah, I got married in Arizona. - These kids, where'd you get married? - See, Teresa's in Phoenix, and Bishop Olmstead presided over my wedding. - Oh, love it. - Love that, man. - I met him when we first got here. He's not the, obviously, the bishop anymore. But this is a great community around here, and you see a lot of what you just said. My wife and I have been to Latin Mass. We've been to the Novus Ordo, and you know what you're seeing in these parishes? Young kids, 20s, early 20s, and they're already on two, three kids. But I don't wanna go into that. I wanna get a question before the break, Stephanie, if that's okay. - Sure. - So for those of you just joining us here at the Frontline with Joe and Joe, we're having a great conversation with Stephanie Great-Conners. We're talking about her new book, "My Body for You," a pro-life message for a post-row world. We'll get into post-row in the next segment, Stephanie. But what I wanna ask you is this. When somebody asks you what are our bodies for, how do you respond? - Yeah, so that's the question I ask in chapter, one of my book. And the short answer is one word and it's love. Our bodies are for love. We are made for a communion of persons. We're made for relationship. We're made to give and receive. And, you know, I've known that. I'm a cradle Catholic. I've been raised my whole life to believe that we're made to know love and serve God in this world and be happy with Him in the next. But my own experience of motherhood in just the last few years, Joe mentioned he's a later marriage. I'm a later marriage. I got married at 40. I'm pregnant right now at 43. And so my experience of motherhood has really reinforced what I knew in theory, you know? And one of the things I write about in the book was when my daughter was about six months old. My husband and I were at Mass and he was holding her and she started fussing. And he passed her to me and I breastfed on demand. And so I thought, oh breastfeeding will comfort her. Even if she's not hungry, she'll just want this. So then I sat down and the moment she latched and I began to breastfeed as I'm looking at her face, I'm listening to where we are in the Mass and we're at the moment of consecration. At that exact moment of me beginning to feed her, the priest lifts up the bread and says, take and eat, this is my body given for you. And I have heard those words my whole life, but it was in that moment where I realized, oh my goodness, my motherhood is a laying down of my life like Christ laid down his life. And as he gave his body out of love for us, I'm giving my body out of love for my child. I did it while I was pregnant, I'm doing it now. I continue to do it as she's two and a half years old in different ways, but I'm still on every level oriented to what is her good. And that is what love is. St. Thomas Aquinas said to love is to will the others good. And so at the end of the day, we are alive and we exist to be in a relationship of love. And that's what our bodies are for. It's one of the things, and we're gonna take a break, Stephanie, that I think, and again, I'm not a theologian, all right, Joe and I both went to Harvard on the Hudson, okay. But the way I see it is this, I always wondered, particularly coming back and starting to take the faith. Seriously, what does it mean to carry your cross, Jesus? Like how do I find a cross every day? But, and this comes from the fruit, this is one of the fruits for me anyway, of doing this show for the last six years with my brother, Joe, is get married. Have kids, the cross is not a bad thing. The cross is the key to our salvation. If you want sacrifice in your life and you're willing to pick up a cross, get married. You have no choice but to live for the other. And again, we're all selfish in our ways. You all have our little things we have to put down. I'm not saying any of us are perfect, okay. But if you want your cross, if you wanna figure out a way to sacrifice your life and give of yourself for the other, get married and have children. And God will take care of the rest. Stephanie, real quick, your social media, where people can find the book, the name of the book, title of the book, My Body For You, a pro-life message for a post-row world. Where can our audience members buy the book and where can our audience members follow you on social media and the like? - Sure, so if people go to stposscenter.com/mybody for you, they can find the book there. And in fact, if your listeners punch in the code for you, 15, they can get a discount. So stposscenter.com/mybody for you. And my website is loveunleashyslife.com. Loveunleashyslife.com. And that's where people can learn all about my background speaking, my blog. And of course, get links to the books if they don't remember the link to my body for you. So loveunleashyslife.com. - Absolutely, Stephanie Grey-Conners is joining us here at the front line with Joe and Joe on the Veritas Catholic Radio Network, 1350 on your AM dial, 103.9 on your FM dial. Spreading the truth of the Catholic faith to the New York City metropolitan area, please download the app, share it with your friends. Follow Joe and I, wherever you see us, Rumble and X in particular, but we are also on YouTube and Facebook until they take us down, of course. And stick around, 'cause now we gotta get into the, what do we do now post-throw? And so we're gonna start going off in that direction. So this is gonna be a great segment. Don't go anywhere. Catholic radio works, and now we have it here in Connecticut and New York. It's been seen around the country that there's no better tool for evangelization. Where there's Catholic radio, the folks who listen deep in their faith, families are strengthened, parishes and communities flourish. So let people know you're listening to Veritas, tell your friends to tune in, and let's make an impact here for Jesus and his church. This is Steve Lee for Veritas Catholic Network. Welcome back, everyone, to the front line with Joe and Joe. Joe Pasolo and Joe Ressanello. We are way in the breach on the Veritas Catholic radio network with Stephanie Gray-Conners, and we're discussing her new book, "My Body for You." A pro-life message for a post-row world, Joe Ressanello. - I know we wanna talk about post-row. I wanna just expand on something you said on the other side, 'cause I agree with it 100% and it's super important. One, you talked about love. What love is, love is sacrificial. Love is losing oneself. Our culture doesn't understand that. I've done pre-kana talks to couples. I could tell, it's not in the psyche of the culture. We have to build that up. Life does not work without Christ. It doesn't work because he defines what love is. It's sacrificial. It's forgetting self, gives meaning to suffering. Those are things that are a part of love, and that's not being communicated to the culture. We have to do that. That's number one. You also said, this is my body giving up for you. 100% agree, 100% agree, and the Eucharist gives us strength. It's viadicum for the journey. It enables us to be the people we need to be, and without it, we can't do it. We can't do it. So ultimately, we have to open the ears and eyes to people of what love is, because a lot of this message is not going to resonate, and I'll just give an example. I work at a bank. I've had five kids. I do okay for myself. There's a lot of people who do a lot better. And when I was having my fifth kid, I was almost embarrassed to say it, because people were like my boss, who makes probably five times what I make, was like, you're having another kid? We have a good relationship. He could say that to me, and I'm not insulted, because I know him for quite some time. I'm like, yeah. It's not even within the calculus of people that make ridiculous sums of money. You're having another kid? Before the disc, 'cause I always like, Stephanie, I'll be honest. We've been doing this for a while. We talked to a lot of people. We're on the radio in Connecticut. It's a wealthy area. People could be driving the car. They're listening to crazy Joe Ressinnell from New Jersey talking about these ideas that in their mind are simply just ideas. But when they translate into normal people's lives, that means no vacations. That means you're not gonna live in the house you wanna live in. That means you're not gonna eat what you like. That means no dinners. That means no happy hours. That means all that. And you're gonna look me in the face and say, you're happy? You're happy? What are you talking about? You're happy? Let's address that, because we don't know what love is. We don't know. - Yeah, so I mean, at the end of the day, if we live for what we're made for, we will find ourselves flourishing and fulfilled. And we didn't make ourselves. God made us and God made us for relationship and a communion of persons. So if communion of persons is a part of our life and the central part of our life, we will be fulfilled. And so I think if people are really honest with themselves, when we make things more important than people, when we make experiences more important than relationships, we won't be fulfilled. And proof of that often is people always grasping for more, more experiences, more things, more toys, because they aren't satisfied and they have this false idea that they just need more of what they have and then they'll be happy. But what they need is a change of perspective. It needs to be relationship. Now, it doesn't mean when you have a family and you have a communion of persons, you have relationship that you can't go out for a meal or you can't go on a vacation for some people that might be limiting based on budget area issues. But you often can still have these experiences, but your ultimate fulfillment, you kind of have to have a priority and see what should be and subordinate to the other things. The ultimate fulfillment is in relationship. And I was actually reflecting on that recently because I was an older marriage and I traveled a lot and gave a lot of talks. I would get to a new town and people would take me out to nice restaurants and they would open nice bottles of wine and it was good and I enjoyed it. But I remember in my late 30s lamenting to a friend, like how many nice bottles of wine can I drink? How many nice fine sausage can I eat? How much fancy cheese do I need to consume? Like at the end of the day, I just really want a life's companion and I want to be in relationship. And then now I have that and are there challenges to life now that I didn't have before, especially as you talked about, you know, having children can be hard? Yes, of course, am I sleep deprived? Yes, at 34 weeks of pregnancy, am I really uncomfortable physically? Yes. So there are challenges, but there is so much fulfillment. And I think back to the times where I had the worldly pleasures, you know, as I said, find dinners and find wine and find food. And it wasn't bad, but I knew something was missing. And so I think at the end of the day, we need to remember we're made for family life. And even the person that has not found a spouse is still made for family life. They need to find their community through their, you know, siblings, expanded family network like cousins or church network through friendships that we are made for domestic churches. And that's why even religious orders, they have stability and community because they know they're made for family life. And so you've got religious orders that, you know, spend their days doing their routines of work and prayer and play together because they too need that communion of persons. It looks a little different, but it's when we're isolated and alone that we ultimately aren't fulfilled. - At the end of the day, I look at it this way. You know, the hookup culture, the sexual liberation that was sold to a lot of people. You know, my father told me, my father wasn't a particularly practicing Catholic, but he used to, he told me before he died, a couple of years before he died. He said, you know, you better find, because I was living that superficial life. And he had enough insight into what I was doing. He knew what I was doing. He knew how I was living. And he said, you know, you better find somebody who you love. He said, because at the end of the day, the looks are gonna fade, Joey. The looks are gonna fade. Yours and hers, and you better have love 'cause if it's just based on, you know, all that other stuff meaning sex. He goes, it's gonna crumble, right? And he was absolutely right about that. My view is this, my deathbed, I don't wanna think about, I don't wanna, I don't want memories. My memories are not gonna come from me 'cause my memories are terrible, at least of my adult life prior to coming back to the church. And, you know, if you're rich, your bank account's not gonna comfort you on your deathbed. Your wife, my wife, my son, my family. That's where I'm gonna take my comfort. Looking forward to meeting Jesus. That's where I'm gonna take my comfort. People should like start to get that through their head. That's my little rant. But Stephanie, let me ask you this. Stephanie Gray-Connor's joining us at the front line with Joe and Joe. Let's talk about the post-row world, all right? We know New Jersey's a basket case, okay? So's New York, so's California, all right? Our blessed mother's gonna have to go to those particular places in order to change the stony hearts of those people. But in supposed pro-life states, it's a post-post-row is a disaster. And that includes Arizona, okay? Now, you're in Florida. Now, my understanding is that either it's happened or it's about to happen where there's gonna be a ballot initiative to enshrine abortion in the constitution. Ohio's already done it. Where abortion is enshrined in the constitution up to the moment of birth. Arizona's trying to do it through lies and deception. This is all about lies and deception. They're calling it healthcare. Catholics are signing the petition 'cause they don't know they're being presented as healthcare. I think you know where I'm going with this. This is like really bad. Now, a lot of babies have been saved since Roe versus Wade has been overturned. But we have to figure out a way to fight this because again, Ohio supposedly is a red state now. So it's Florida, we're ostensibly supposed to be a red state that is pro-life and we're losing the abortion battle in these states. So I love your comments on that. - Yeah, you know, we need to remember that the overturning of Roe v. Wade was a cause for celebration. It was a step in the right direction. But it was winning a battle, not the war. The war was still and is still raging. And my concern, which has become reality, was once it was overturned, it would just go to the states. And so then you're going to have, you know, change from one state to the next where you could have a state like Louisiana, which has largely banned almost all abortions. And then states like Ohio, which shocked us all a few months ago with this, as you said, state constitution change to have widespread support for abortion. And so we need to fight at a state level, but at the same time, get across the message that human rights are inalienable and universal and shouldn't change based on state to state. So, you know, what would we think if rape was legal in one state and illegal in another state? We would say, wait a minute, rape is so bad, it should be illegal across the country. It shouldn't be decided on a state-by-state level. And abortion is another example of an attack on innocent human life. It's an act of homicide. It's targeting the youngest of our kind who are incapable of defending themselves. So that shouldn't be legal in one state and illegal in another across the board, it ought to be illegal. So we need to be fighting for federal protections for the youngest of our kind, while acknowledging where there are very specific battles going on directly in front of us at a state level, then we need to get the right politicians elected, we need to be vocal, we need to work with our church leaders, the gatekeepers, the people who are in control of getting access to audiences. So that's the people in the pews, the people in our high schools, the people on our college campuses. And we need to be bringing the pro-life message so as to change public opinion, so as to get the right type of public policy that should be happening because we're seeing a response from those who support abortion to the overturning of Roe to almost be more activated and energized, which shouldn't surprise us because where Satan is threatened, he's going to get more active. And so by Roe v. Wade being overturned, that's a big threat to Satan. And so he's going to respond in all kinds of ways by doing all kinds of evils. So it's an important reminder for us to realize it's not time to pack our bags and go home. The war is still raging, even if one particular battle was won. And we need to use the energy and encouragement and inspiration from the success of that one battle to drive us forward into these other battles, not to abandon the scene. - No, that's right. Joe, let me stay here for one second if you don't mind. It's because that's why, like locally here, a lot of Catholics are trying to get together. Unfortunately, our bishop and the diocese has not come out with a strong statement about this because a lot of Catholics are being, now in Ohio, let's be fair. Planned Parenthood and the forces of death along with George Soros money that poured in there, okay? They lied to people. They lied to people walking into supermarkets and targets and everything else. They have to lie. No Catholic is, even if they're pro-choice, like nominally pro-choice, which is still wrong, no Catholic is gonna sign a petition that says that a baby can be killed up to the moment of birth, okay? No Catholic in their right mind. So they were all lied to in Ohio and they're doing the same thing here and they're very, very, very well-funded, all right? And I mean, that's really what I see is one of the main problems, is that, you know, Joe and I don't want a political solution to this. We want people to turn to Christ, but we live in the real world, okay? We live in time and space. And in time and space, we have to try to fight for political or judicial victories. I'm gonna throw something out there to you. We had on Father Stephen and Barato a month ago on our Thursday night podcast, okay? And I think he's right. He says that now again, we're not advocating for any candidate, he'll put it like this. He said if a authentically pro-life candidate, let's say we know who he's talking about, all right? Someone who at least who seems to have a track record of being pro-life and gave us some pro-life judges. Let's put it like that. Decided on the federal level to say that all life is, that protects the life of pre-born, innocent human beings and they're protected as the legal class, let the lawsuit come. But the executive branch will make that determination that in the executive branch, that is the rule and let the Supreme Court put it on them to finally make a decision. Roe versus Wade was not supposed to be overturned. The right to, for every human being from the moment of birth was supposed to be affirmed by the Supreme Court and abortion was supposed to be banned. - Moment of conception. - From the moment of conception, I'm sorry, Stephanie. Sometimes when I go off on a rant, I lose in my brains as my mother would say. But I think you know where I'm going. The Supreme Court is supposed to find under our constitution that those children in the womb are protected, they are protected class, they have a right to life, not this overturning of Roe versus Wade, even though like you said, that was a victory, that would be huge. Talk about that. - Well, sure, look, we know that if we're going to stand behind the claim all men are created equal, then it comes down to, well, when were they created? And science teaches us, setting aside religion for a moment, even if someone is not religious. Science teaches us that beings which reproduce sexually begin their lives at fertilization or spermache fusion. And so if we believe all men are created equal, then abortion should be abolished across the board. Preborn children should have the same protections that you and I have because they were created at the moment of spermache fusion. They have come into existence and technically, they already are protected. We're just not acting like they're protected. We don't have the law, the other laws, we've created or supported other laws that counteract that belief that all men are created equal, but it should be acknowledged and declared that this already is the reality, that by virtue. So it's not even like we need a law that says we should protect preborn children. It already exists. We should protect all humans. And the question is, are preborn children human? And if they are human, then they're automatically protected, the way a five year old is protected or the way a 20 year old is protected. Yeah, exactly right. And just one more point, I would have found a point that father in Barato said that under the fifth and 14th amendment, it's like you just said, Stephanie Gray Connors, it's already the law. Yeah. And I'll break something to our Veritas Catholic Radio Network audience because father in Barato said it on our podcast, he said five of the justices were ready to go. They were ready to go. And he's very well connected. And he was with the prior administration. He said that he and he's very well informed. And again, I trust him because he's a guy who actually went to jail for protesting in front of abortion clinics. So I kind of trust him. He said five of them were ready to go, but the main guy said, that's too far too fast. And that's why we only got the overturning of row rather than what you're saying. That tells me we are closer than we think, as far as that happens. But Stephanie, with our limited time, I'm sorry, I know I go off on a rant. I apologize for it all the time. Your book, let's remember to plug the book, my body for you, a pro-life message for a post-row world that's available at Amaeus Road Publishing. And we have the author Stephanie Gray Connors here on this very important topic. Joe Rassinello. - Everything you said is very important. We have to fight, we have to inform. My view of Dobbs was it was a political issue and the courts kicked the can down the line. They did. Judge Roberts, if you ask me, does not have courage. And if they overturned row, it would start a civil war in America. People would go ballistic. And Roberts knows that. So my two cents, this is why the battle is not political, it is spiritual. And this is where I'm gonna go with it. Prayer and fasting. Prayer and fasting. A while ago I saw a movie about St. Charbel. He was in the confessional. A woman comes in, gives her confession. Most priests, I thought this was phenomenal. It actually made me step back. Most priests give the standard three Hail Marys, do this, do that, whatever. You walk out, you give your act of contrition. He said, I'll do penance for you. I will. This is what we have to do. We have to do penance for the world. We, we have to pray and we have to fast and God will stop abortion. I have no question in my mind that God will stop because it's an atrocity. We're not gonna do it. Man's not going to do it. We're incapable of doing it. We're incapable of saving ourselves. We're so flawed, me at the head of the line. But what I can do is pray and fast, like I mean it. Talk about that because I think there is the solution. Men fail. We have failed from the beginning. We denied our Lord. The first pope denied him, came back. He'd walk the walk. He got crucified. I get it. But at the end of the day, we are weak. But our Lord sees what's going on. And if we appeal to him through prayer and fasting, it will stop your thoughts. - Well, I mean, Jesus himself says that in the scriptures. Some demons can only be cast out through prayer and fasting. And the abortion industry is demonic because it is attacking the most innocent of all human lives and the most sacred of all human relationships. So the most innocent being the youngest of our kind who have original sin, but have yet to commit actual sin who are incapable of even raising their voices in defending themselves. And the most sacred of all relationships, that being a mother and her child, where children should be assured of the nurture and the love and the care and the safety that their mothers bestow upon them, not violence and dismemberment and so forth. So it is demonic and therefore we need a spiritual response to a spiritual problem. Again, as we mentioned, in the first episode, we need a multifaceted approach. We need to pray in fast as well as educate and seek political change and practically help women in crisis, for example. Those people that have the hook up and say, okay, I won't have an abortion. Okay, well, we need to honor the right decision they've now made in preserving the life of their child and walk with them through that pregnancy and beyond so that they can either parent their child or place their child for adoption. But underneath at all, the foundation has to be that prayer and fasting. And I'm reminded of a book, one of my spiritual directors encouraged me to read years ago called the Soul of the Apostolate. And the whole premise behind the book is that when you're involved in apostolic or ministry-based activity, where you're trying to spread the gospel and build up Christ's kingdom here on earth, there can be a tendency to focus on the passage. The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few. And then to make up the rest of the passage and think that that means I need to get out on into the harvest and do all the labor the other laborers aren't around for. But that's not how that passage goes on. It says the harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few. And the next command after that is to pray. Pray therefore that the Lord of the harvest will send more laborers into the harvest. If I get so busy doing the work of other people, then they will not see the void that the spirit would then prompt them to fill. And then also if I get so busy doing doing doing work, then I'm not stopping to take time to pray. And so the premise of this book is that if we don't pray and we don't make prayer the foundation of our apostolic activity, we actually become a threat to the very good ministry-based activity that we're doing. And so there's a beautiful illustration in the book by St. Bernard, who says we are to be reservoirs, not channels. And he said, if you think about those two bodies of water, a channel, the water just flows through. And he said, that's like the busy soul doing quote unquote, good, but going, going, going, doing, doing, doing, never taking time to stop and pray. He goes, a reservoir is very different. With a reservoir, the water fills up and then the excess overflows. And he said, that is what is the heart of the apostolic. Each of us is to take time to be still and know that God is God, to enter into prayer and fasting, to fill up first on that. And then yes, of course we should then take action. Of course we should do our role in the harvest, and then let that spill over into our activity, but the foundation has to be that spiritual foundation. So I would encourage your listeners to heed that call. You know, absolutely, Stephanie Grey-Conners, joining us here at the front line with Joe and Joe Stephanie, let me go in this direction. You use the word demonic. You use the word homicide. Joe used the word atrocity. How important is it for us? I mean, this one should be easy, I think. Take the language back, dammit. Take it back. It ain't healthcare. Nothing healthy about an abortion. For the mother too, by the way, okay? And all the other euphemisms they use, it's murder, it's homicide, it's child killing, it's an atrocity because like you said, these are babies who never did anything to anybody. The only other more innocent person that ever existed was Jesus Christ, okay? And that's why it's such a grave injustice, is if justice is what you get what you do. Well, obviously Christ got crucified and what he was do was worship and love and honor, okay? And the babies in the womb, they deserve to be brought into the world and have a chance to live. They haven't done anything to anybody. How important is it to not let them get away with it? You won't be on their talk shows, but who cares? You'll come on the front line with Joe and Joe and we'll talk that way. Talk about that stuff. I want you to really think just a little bit about giving the language back, just to tell you we got about two and a half, three minutes left. Yeah, yeah. Well, I would say obviously language is very powerful. And so we want to use language to our advantage and we need to realize that's what the other side has done for so long, right? By framing abortion as choice. Well, choice who doesn't like choice, right? Do you want chocolate or vanilla ice cream? I'd rather choose than have it forced upon me. And so they have taken a subjective issue like that and turned it to an objective one like abortion and misrepresented abortion, making people think it's as subjective issue as what flavor of ice cream would you like to eat? But we need to take language back in order to make the point, there are some subjective issues, but there are some objective issues as well. And just as there is a clear right and wrong on slavery, a clear right and wrong on rape, a clear right and wrong on homicide, there's a clear right and wrong on abortion. And so we need to define abortion and not allow pro-choice to be the term used, but to indicate that abortion is a direct intentional taking of an innocent human life. It's the killing of the youngest of our kind. It's homicide. And then when we use that language, anyone who objects, then we get them to explain, well, how is my term inaccurate and how is your term more accurate? And once they have to then start explaining and defending their claims, again, because it's built on lies, pretty quickly everything's going to fall apart and they're going to realize, oh, I can't defend that. Even how we refer- - Stephanie, what happens real quick, I'm gonna throw it right back to you real quick. What happens when you do that is what you describe that abortion is that you debated. All of a sudden they get flustered because the truth just starts punching them in the face. Go ahead, go ahead. - Yeah, not only did they get flustered, but if they are willing to admit to something very extreme, it's shocking to the average person who ultimately is our target audience. I desire the conversion of all the abortionists that I have debated, but they're a harder sell. They're like Saul on the road to Damascus, who needs the light and the voice of God coming at him for a profound heart change. But the average person who sits more in the middle on the fence wondering, is it right, is it wrong? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Those are the people that are more open. And I remember the time I debated a late-term abortionist and I showed images of late-term abortion in front of 200 medical students that we were debating. And I asked the abortionist in front of those students if what I showed was an accurate representation of what he sees and what he does. And his exact response was absolutely, end quote. And he could just boldly make that proclamation, but you should have seen the reaction of the 200 medical students. They're like, and you could have heard a pin drop. The shock on their faces, the silence that descended on the crowd, because it's like, oh my gosh, what she showed was horrible. And he just admitted that is what it is. And so we need to let the reality of the horror of abortion speak and be seen because the truth is what ultimately we'll win. - We have to leave it there, Stephanie Gray-Conners. One more time, the title of the book, where folks can buy it and where folks can follow you. - Sure, my body for you, a pro-life message for a post-row world. If people go to stpulsecenter.com/mybodyforyou, they can order the book there. If they put four U15 in the coupon code, they'll get a discount. And if they forget everything, just go to my website, loveunlicheslife.com, and it has all kinds of links there. - Awesome, Stephanie Gray-Conners. Thank you so much for joining us here at the Frontline with Joe and Joe. Needless to say, you are welcome back here anytime our sister, if you'd like. - Thank you so much, God bless you. - God bless you, and thank you all out there for joining us on the Veritas Catholic Radio Network. 1350 on your AM dial, 103.9 on your FM dial, spreading the truth of the Catholic faith to the New York City Metropolitan area. Download the app, share it with your friends, you'll have access to all of our station's content, and where you see Joe and I on social media, X, Facebook, Rumble, Twitter, particularly Rumble, and X, help us out there. Like, subscribe, share, do all that fun stuff. Get this conversation out. Just hit the share button, don't worry about it. Let the chips fall where they may. Stephanie Gray-Conners, thanks once again. Thank you all out there once again, and remember until the next time that our conversation is your conversation, and that conversation is going on everywhere. We'll talk to you soon. (upbeat music)
