Welcome to Big Blend Radio, where we celebrate variety and how it adds spice to quality of life. Welcome to Big Blend Radio. Today on our quality of life show, we're going to be talking about that quality of life, and especially our teens, our youth. Are they having quality of life? And today, of course, you know Johnny Shafer. He's an award-winning singer-songwriter. He is back on our show. He's on our show every first Sunday on our Big Daily Blend podcast, and he is back on today to talk about his new song. It's called When It's Your Kid. It is out now, and you can check it out. Go to herejohnny.com and also his YouTube video channel. You can go there, and it is linked in the episode notes. And everyone that we have coming on the show, we have an incredible cast of amazing humans coming on the show today to talk about the world of suicide. And this is something that we're going to be talking about a lot during the month of September, which is Suicide Prevention Month, and looking at teens, especially after COVID. It's gotten worse, and everyone joining us is going to be talking about what kids face now. We've got the world of guns. We've got the world of, oh my gosh, it's climate change. There's so much on teens' shoulders right now that I think this podcast episode is really important. And what Johnny has to say about what gay teens and LGBTQ+ teens are going through, it can be even harder and can lead to suicide. So first, welcome back, Johnny. How are you? Thank you, Lisa. I'm really grateful that we're able to share this particular conversation with the Big Blank community. Doing well here in Pasadena, it's warm, but beautiful, and it's always great to connect with you. Well, your song "When It's Your Kid" really hits the gut, right? It goes right to the heart and doesn't pull any punches on it. It really gets you to think in here and have a real moment of thinking and retrospect and hoping that we can do more. And that's something I want to say that word "hope" is really important about today's show. I think that it's about shedding light when you say to inspire to not have suicide. So do you want to touch on the song "When It's Your Kid" and everyone again? Yeah. Link is in the episode notes as well for people to watch the video, but there's also, you know, you can get it everywhere, right, Johnny? Yeah, if I'm on all the streaming platforms and my @HearJohnny YouTube channel, and you know, the phone came about, honestly, from me watching TikTok and Instagram Reels, and the youth, there's this common theme of anger at the older generations for the world that we're living, leaving to them. You know, my brother teaches high school, and he says he hears it from his students all the time, that they just feel like we're not doing anything, and we're indifferent to the mess that they feel, you know, the world is, and they don't see us coming up with solutions or even caring. And so I wanted to write a song about that, and I, at first, I didn't actually know what subjects I was going to bring up. I just started thinking about, you know, what are some of these issues that they rattle off, and you know, you start with yourself. So as a gay person, I've been frustrated with the, you know, the choice that those in the political circles have made to, instead of talking about things that matter in people's lives, you know, economically and all that, they focused on social issues like suppressing the LGBTQ community, and book bands, and all of that. And I, I thought, well, how can I, how can I make a song that will, will reach people who are, who feel this way, who feel so threatened by gay people that they want to ban books? And so I thought, well, maybe if they could empathize. And so I recalled a situation when I was young, where I knew of an 18-year-old boy who the whole family knew he was gay, and they talked amongst themselves and decided to just wait and see, you know, how he would come out, like let him come out on his own. And they went to church once and they in the preacher railed against homosexuality for 20 minutes, and they didn't say anything, and so he went home and killed themselves. And, and they were, they were actually prepared to accept them. And so I thought that that would be a powerful, relating that story would be a powerful way in. And then I just thought about asking the question, just, you know, when it's your kid, don't you want them to be happy? I mean, when my, my father was a Lutheran minister and I went through, I used to pray that I would get in a car accident or get cancer because I felt like, you know, when my dad had taught me that suicide was bad. So it was like the worst thing you could do. So I thought, well, surely God doesn't want me to be this way and I can't change. So I would pray, let me just, you know, let me die. And, and so I, I can relate to the pain that he, that he felt. Fortunately, I had, I had people around me who helped me see that God loved me the way I was. And when I, my dad and I finally talked about it, he said, you know, I love you. God loves you. It doesn't make any difference. I just want you to be happy. And so I, in this song, I say, don't you want them to be happy? And, and, and then it goes on to say, you know, they're not stupid. You know, if you could see the future, they see you'd go easy. So it's, it's trying to, it's trying to get people in my generation to see, I get a glimpse of what they're, of how they're feeling and what they're looking at. I think this is important to also give out right now when we talk about teen suicide or any suicide that this can be a trigger for people. So please know that the crisis lifeline, the suicide and crisis lifeline number is 988 to call that, but also that the Trevor project you connected with them as well. And they're really working to end LGBTQ plus youth suicide in the US and, you know, around, I mean, going as far as Puerto Rico and places like that. So go to the Trevor project.org and connect with that. So it's just important for us to, to touch on that because, you know, it's, there's a danger of even covering this, right? So again, today's show is about hope and shedding light. So I want to bring our guests on. So the first guest I want to bring on is Susan Holder. And she is also a vocalist on the song, right, Johnny? And Susan has been part of your life. And also Melissa Manchester, you talk about all the time too, right? So welcome, Susan. How are you? I'm well. Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's good to have you on the show. And what was it that led you to say, yes, I'm going to be on board with Johnny. I mean, who doesn't want to work with Johnny on things? But what was it? Well, yeah, I was going to say, how would I ever say no to this? Yeah, it's such an important song. And I have two sons who are 31 and 33 at this point. I, you know, I mentioned the Trevor project in passing the other day. They both knew exactly what that was, which I was glad to hear, because I want support for them in any way they need it at any time. But, you know, also because it tied in the subject of school shootings. And I had had the opportunity to go to Florida and see some of those students in the aftermath of a massacre. And well, there was no way I was going to say no to this. Of course, of course I am. And in fact, my husband, when you see the video, the guy that's standing there, the couple that's standing there, that's us, that's me and my real life husband, and the real life family photos of our, our home. We were all in. Wow, wow. So this is personal, you know, and that's, that's real. And so your husband is in this too. So do you both sing a lot together? We do. He did not sing on this. He is an actor. He is an acting coach in a large professional studio in Los Angeles. He has done more musicals than I have. He's probably in his life done 40 or 50 musicals. So, it is in his blood. But he wasn't actually singing on this track. Donnie did the male vocals, and I did the female vocals on this track. This is awesome. This is awesome that you all came together with this. And I also want to bring our next guest producer, Jeff Levin. Jeff worked with this video as well as Paco. Paco Silva, which is Johnny's husband. So welcome to the show. Jeff, how are you? I'm good and excited to be on this show. The way I found out about Johnny was through another songwriter that I've worked with, Bill Burnett, really wonderful songwriter, very socially conscious. And he, I think he might have heard the song or looked at the song and said, "No, this is a little bit beyond my production abilities." I'm a record producer. I've been producing albums since 1975. And I have produced hundreds of albums, not hit albums necessarily, but I do have a hit record in my background with my band People in 1968. So when I heard about this, I said, "Yeah, if he's a friend of yours, I'll check it out." Right? Because I'm very picky. It's not about money for me. It's about the subject matter and the person. So Johnny sounded good. And then he played me a rough version of it. And I have lived a pretty full life, including being in a cult for 46 years, which is a film that I produced called Brothers Broken. And we're just into the sales part of it to get somebody to buy it. But anyway, I saw so many different sides of so many different people. And to some degree, I was a homophobe when I was in the cult. Oh, wow. Except if you know what cognitive dissonance is, I was working with choreographers that were the most wonderful people to work with. They were gay. And they were incredibly great. So I go, "Yeah, but this doesn't jive. There's some of the best clients I have the most compassionate and easy to work with." When I left the cult, I shed all that stuff. And so when I flipped, I went, "That was complete stupid." idiocy and brainwashing. And so then I became very pro. Anything you, you know, pro your gender, whatever you choose is fine with me because if you're happy, then that's great. Then I hear this song and I'm like, "Okay, I don't know if you have a budget, but I'm doing the song. I don't care." And because I heard the lyrics and I went, "That is a brilliant emotional song." And Johnny also made the point. He said, "I want to reach the people who need to be reached. I'm not preaching to the choir here because that's easy." And so he's written the song and I took a lot of care to go, "This needs to be an authentic song. It's not slick. It but it needs to have heart." And so I played all the instruments on it pretty much except cello. And I just didn't want to over produce it. And I feel that we didn't and that we captured the message that Johnny wanted to give. And to me, it's such a unique powerful song. So I'm privileged that I don't believe it was an accident that I'm privileged to have been a producer, a music producer on this. I think it's wonderful that you all moved in. Yeah, I'm sorry. And I actually had a hard time finding a producer. There were several people who they all said, "This is a great message. I believe it, but I don't want to touch my name to it because all these clients." And it scared a number of people. And they frankly told me that. And so then when Bill connected me with Jeff, he got it right away. And having just been a very brave film himself about his journey out of Scientology, he was someone who has the armor and a commitment to making a little better place. And so we ran with it. And I loved that he didn't get in the way of the lyrics. I had been thinking that we needed to put lyrics at the bottom. And I finally been talked out of that because he made sure that the lyrics were front and center in the arrangement and people say, "No, I can hear it. I don't want to be distracted by seeing the lyrics in this video." And that's a, I think, a tribute to the way he handled the arrangement and making sure that the vocals are front and center. I love it. I love the way it just is so authentic and genuine because it has to be. I wouldn't have just be real honest and frank about this, but sometimes people glump onto things that are going on just to glump onto it for our marketability factor. And, you know, the reality is your song is so honest on a true story that is difficult, right? It's a difficult. And so you went right there, right for the, you went right for the throat, honestly. And I hate to say it that way, but you did. You went for the heart, really. And I think that is a scary thing for people. And when people rally around telling the truth, it's so crucial. And the arts have always done that, the arts. And I think documentary films, music and paintings and writing have always done that. And I really would take a hands-off to anybody on the show today, everyone on here, because you're telling the truth. And you're documenting history and then also shedding light. And shedding light can create change and bring hope. And hope is not frivolous. Hope is about standing strong and keep going no matter how hard it is. And so I really think that is so important with what everyone has done on the show. But I want to bring our next guest on the show, because she's been waiting, Linda is a multiple Emmy award-winning documentary filmmaker. And she's got a wonderful partner, Joel, who works with her. Her latest, whatever latest documentaries is Parkland, healing a community and a nation. You may have seen it on PBS. And obviously we know about what happened in Parkland. And I think it's so important about this documentary too. And also, what the kids have done post the actual shooting itself, how they stood up. Because I'm tired of people kind of rallying against our kids. And I think we should touch on this on the show today. Because I think that can also be about what happens with suicide is that kids will stand up for themselves in something like what happened at Parkland. And they got attacked. And it's really a political bias that happens. And they're attacking kids, and kids that are getting attacked in their schools. And then there's kids that are carrying guns because of certain issues. And so it's a big hot mess. And whatever we can do to support them is important. And I think that shooting was really eye-opening in that. When you say welcome, Corley, Linda, your name's Corley now. But anyway, I like the name. That's okay. That's actually my daughter's name. Oh, well, see, see, I knew it. See, I was telling your daughter there. But yeah, but do you see what I mean about that with there's just it's so complex everything we're talking about today, you know, you absolutely, absolutely. I, I, I applaud the kids. They I don't want to call them children. They handled themselves like that, you know, incredible adults very maturely to make change. And as Emma Gonzalez says, we're not going to take this anymore. And so a lot of those students in their senior year after the shooting, they graduated, and they took that year off. They could have gone to college. Nope, they didn't. They started the March for our lives. They got on a bus. They visited 40 states, and they changed. They, they helped. I mean, not as dramatically as they wanted to, but they absolutely did change gun laws for the better, you know, strengthened waiting periods made in some states a higher minimum age for buying firearms. And it was very impressive for for young adults under the age of 18, the kind of audacity. And I mean, audacity in a really good way that they had they were not intimidated. And I think they served as a great example to their age group. And I hope they'll always be remembered, you know, my partner, Joel, and I always said, it's going to be amazing. I hope I live long enough to see who David Hogg finally becomes. Yeah, you know, he's a guy to watch. So is, so is Emma. They all were. Jamal was incredible. He now has a film in a major film festival. So they're taking their talents and they're not keeping it under a bushel by all means. They're they're still out there sending messages in their own way. How did you, Linda, how did you and Joel and everyone is Joel Kaplan connect together because it seems you've done quite a few projects together and that you do look at what's going on with families and and look at what's going on across our country as well. I mean, and it like the changing. I mean, Nancy and I, my mom, Nancy and I travel the country full time. And as we go, we see the fragility of our country. We see the strength of our country at the same time. We see a broken country. A healed country. We see it all. It's so like opposites. We see very strong. There is the gray matter in between, which is where we hope more will unite instead of shove aside. I feel like we can rise above what has been happening and start to hopefully get more connection. Technology sometimes plays a role of separation, but can also be a savior, which is weird. But do you see through everything you've done as filmmakers and traveling and everything you've done together? Do you see hope at all? You know, even when, you know, you're making, you know, Parkland, did you feel like we can have hope or do you go? I mean, what Johnny's song like you, there's some hope in there like in that he's shedding light and it's like, wow, we better not wait a second to let a kid sit with his thoughts too long or her thoughts too long and feel alone too long. That's, I think, the most important thing is when someone's really desperately torn and it feels like the villain, they don't let him be alone too long at all and don't let him feel, you know, disparaged and that they're not worth anything or worthless. And as we as a society keeps saying, oh, the millennials, all this, all that, I'm like, what are you doing? You're hurting kids and you don't know. Your one mouthy comment that you do on Facebook could send the kid to a different place that we don't want. So, how do you feel with what your work, you and Joel, as you unite together and do these amazing projects, how do you feel, do we have hope? I mean, we still have to keep beating the drum, right? Yeah, well, so when we came from a PBS discipline, we started right out of college, Joel and I, that's where we met at South Florida PBS back in the 80s and we worked there for many, many years and then we left and we started our own company Daydream Productions and the mission statement, if you will, was always find hope in every story. So, when we were contacted by PBS to do the Parkland documentary, they didn't tell us what lens to look through to tell the story. We could have told the story about the shooter. We could have told the story about, you know, how the whole thing happened, you know, a day in the life of that horrible day February 14th. No, we decided to look through the lens of these incredible residents and high school students because there was so much hope there. I was so proud because ironically, and this is what PBS knew, was that years before I had actually sent my kids to that high school, they were graduates of Marjory Stoneman Douglas and I had lived there for 14 years. I was proud of that town. So, hope was what all, that's what, that's what they, that's all they had to get up every morning and they knew that they were going to make changes and that's how they, that's how they catapulted themselves out of bed every day. That's how many the father of one of the shooting victims, I mean, he started in his own organization and look at him today. I mean, he's really getting the word out there. No one sat idly. They, I gotta, I gotta give them credit and so that was to answer your question. That was the hope that we found. The hope we found were those people's hope. Yeah, and I think we've got to back our kids because, you know, and get, I know politics is embedded in everything, but the politics is getting nasty and it's leaving our kids out to dry. That's how I personally feel and see, you know, and the more we keep dividing and keep dividing and dividing, then the more solitary circumstances the kids are in, right? If they don't see anyone united, they don't want to, you know, they look at what's going on in presidential campaigns right now. It may be positive, right? Or not? I don't know. I don't want to get in trouble, but, you know, but you know what I mean, you know, right? I just feel like the hatred that adults are bringing to the youth in a lot of ways. There's a lot of good adults out there, but do you know what I'm saying, Joggy, right? Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, I think Jeff, Jeff has some really, he has a unique perspective because he was part of the machine that was trying to promote the Scientology message. So, Jeff, do you want to speak to, you know, how media plays into this? And I feel like that's one of the things that you really bring to the table on this project. Well, I think youth has a future. They don't have a past. When you're young, you have future and not, not too much past, hopefully. And when I was in Scientology, I see the parallels between what's going on now politically. I watched how the NRA grew from this small educational organization to a lobby that was connected to a much more powerful group of individuals. And what I see the foundation, and it's very interesting, if you look at a group that's fighting control of the Second Amendment, what you see is people who are in fear. If you want to break it down to the bottom line, whatever you see them doing, which seems irrational, you present to them, well, look, in this state, like I live in California, we have these laws. And so this has, the statistic has dropped. It's better. It's not great, but it's better. And what you're dealing with is cognitive dissonance, which I didn't even know what the word meant. And for people who don't understand it, or have never heard that word, what it means is that you have a belief system that is so foundational, and you're hanging onto it for dear life, basically, that belief system is more important than anything. And so you can look at facts, you can look at things right in front of you that have just happened, and you're going to filter it through that belief system no matter what. And that's what I'm looking at, because I hang out with a lot of these conservatives and pro-gun, everyone should have a gun, no restrictions. And I've been a shooter my whole life. I can talk their talk, but I also understand when you have to go, "Okay, we need controls here." And so there, when you talk to somebody like that, and I think the great thing about the kids that went out at their own risk, and I believe me, there are some nasty people, I'm sure they had to confront. Those people are really, their foundation is basically fear. And that, when you start to deal with people in fear, if you corner them in any way, their reaction is to lash out physically. And so when I was dealing with Scientology, I had associates friends, including my family, and every single one of them, even somebody who said he wouldn't shun me, he's now shunned me. Because they can't see past their belief system that's so, and that belief system in Scientology is based solely on fear. I think fear is, you know, we have fear for good reason. It's fight or flight, right? It's part of when we were cavemen, cavewomen. It's part of survival, right? And so we play that in, there's times we need to know what real fear is versus like this other societal fear. And I think society is playing like games, like, you know, perfection, and we have to have, you know, look at eugenics, and we have to have the perfect race, right? And I kind of feel that it all goes back down to that at the end of the day. This perfect race, the cults, all of it is about having perfection in someone's idea goes, this is the perfect way, and we all must come to that. And that's what it's about. Hitler did it. We're in danger of that right now. Look at how many dictators are trying to be rulers around the world. It's not just our country, it's around the world, and we're repeating history. So that's where the arts, I mean, I think with what you're doing, too, you know, Jeff, with your documentary that that's important, but everybody gets to watch that and see it. I know you're still in that working stages of it, but and we'll have you back on the show to talk more about that. But I think, you know, brother's broken, everyone, keep your eye out for that. It's important to know because, you know, you're talking about kids formative years and what they know and what they're questioning. And if they don't, they can't trust their parents, what are they going to? Who are they going to trust? When I went to school once, and we had a teacher that taught all the kids in class that day, that if you were, this was in the 80s, and this was in Africa, so South Africa at the time, that if you went to the grocery store with your parents and their vegetables were scanned or whatever you're purchasing was scanned, that your parents are an agent of the devil. And if they paid with a credit card, they're an agent of the devil, and they're going to have an exit the back of their neck. We were just talking about this sort of recent podcast, and it's crazy. One of my friends, I sat there in the classroom because Nancy taught me to question everything, luckily, and one of my friends really started to believe this, and his parents were shop owners who took credit cards and scanned things, and he started sneaking up on his parents to look at their neck at the dinner table in all kinds of weird ways, and the mom went up to Nancy's like, is Lisa acting weird because, you know, he's acting weird and, you know, started talking about this, and Nancy's like, oh, he didn't tell you, this is what's going on at school. She was always at the principal's office, but this is insane. And so if the kid doesn't have a relationship with their parents, or the parents are part of, like, craziness, right, where do they go? And that's why I think, like, the Trevor Project, when you reaching out, Johnny, that was important to do that because they have to know there's more, there's beyond whatever bubble you're in, right, that could be your house, it could be your local community, it could be whatever, like, that, we all have kind of like a weird boundary around us as kids, you know? You talk about fear, and I think that it's used, it's really like, people are going to fear something, so it's what are they going to fear, and so people message to get them to fear the other, and they don't really care so much about what the other might be as long as it allows them to manipulate them and to control them and to get them. I always feel like people vote against their best interests because they've been taught to fear this one thing that really has nothing to do with those interests, and that becomes their focal point. And Sue and I were talking about this. I had some people tell me, well, you talk about too many things in this song, you talk about teen suicide and gun violence, and then you bring in climate change at the end, but Sue, you were saying that your kids, that's what they rattle off, it's not one thing, it's all of it. They're all over all of it, and sometimes overwhelmed by it, but you know, one of our favorite things around here is how do you eat an elephant one bite at a time. So I just try with them when the newest thing troubles them, and there, let's just take this bite for a while, let's chew on this bite for a while and see if we can make it a little less scary. So yeah, they're inundated, and they're online so much that they are hyperbumbarded with input. And I was going to say information, it's not always information, it's certainly not always the truth, but it's input. All the money. Oh, and well, because I, you know, I know, John, you'll be in a show with Jeff Nelegens, soon he's a parenting author, and there's a statistic out there that's done, like it's credible. Kids now are, he enlightened me on this with his book. Kids are teenagers right now, the average phone time that they are on their phone during a day is eight hours to nine hours, and I'm like, holy cow, that is some scary, scary things, because what are they ingesting, right? Where's the actual human relationship? Where's the actual studying? Where's the working on that? Where's the playing? Like I played with sticks and kicked cans and jumped off roofs and, you know, all that kind of, you know, we all had some part of that, but I think right now we've got to look at what, what, I mean, I kind of feel like everything's out of whack, and yet at the same time, I'm going, can we have hope on the show? So, um, yeah, I think like, I love that with the biting one bit of the, I just don't want to eat an elephant. Could I jump in for a second? Please, I have, I have two children, one is 30 and one is 27. So, I'm going to talk about my willful ignorance, which I call it, and I raise those children, and I don't blame them for where they are right now. I didn't understand, and I think this is the hope that we have, there are wonderful people out there, including, I think, our, our potential vice president, who are critical thinkers, and I think that that was not being taught, and if you, what's really fascinating is to look at the program that the right is trying to do to talk about critical race theory, which is, is BS, all disinformation, but they use the word critical in there. Critical thinking has stopped being taught, and yet it's a tool that we can, and there are places now that kids can find this, you can do a little course. It's going to help them so much to weed through all of this mess, and I think it's a hopeful sign, and more people are talking about it, more people are making it accessible that we can learn how to weed through all this information and make our own decisions, and as a, as a father, man did I, I failed. I was using, I was teaching my kids Scientology, which, and they hate personal thinking. They, you think the way they tell you to think, and that's it, period. So, so I know that the movement is happening in the right direction, and, and I'm supportive of any website, any teacher who wants to get that explanation out, get people practicing that, and I think it's, it's the program I could do a whole foundation just on helping young people to critically think. I think the critical thinking is it. I mean, that's the difference. I've been like, when I go back to that school time where I questioned the teacher, and it was unheard of, you know, you're supposed to whatever the teacher tells you is the, you know, God's honest truth, same as your doctor, right, while they take your reproductive organs away. Right, isn't that, isn't that what we're taught? And so it, you have to, I mean, so that's where fear is your friend, actually, you have to learn your gut instinct. And if your gut instinct says fear, you should know it. And I just, you know, Johnny, going back to your song, you know, it's, it's, to me, I feel so bad for that the entire family when it's your kid. Everyone go watch that, go listen to it. And all platforms, um, when it's your kid, the whole family, and the church, like here, everybody's trying, they're ready to do it. But what we had to wait to dot a few eyes, cross a few T's instead of just actually being caring. You know what I mean? It's like, how long are we going to take to be politically correct on things to, whereas politically correctness. Now we're, that's also a weird thing at a time where we're, we're also looking at political correctness being so up. That's so important, which it is. Right. But at the same time, can't we just be caring first? Like, can we do that? I almost feel like the political correctness is, um, a mask for the reality that we actually just need true caring. I've been really encouraged. We filmed, um, we wanted to have a shot inside of a church of a, uh, of an empty pulpit. The approach we took at the music videos, because the song is so specific, we didn't want to spoon feed like, uh, be really literal. So instead of like, you know, showing a lot of specific things, we showed the aftermath of, of like, you know, Sue and, uh, and Chris represent the parents of this, of this boy who killed himself. And so the, um, our approach was just to show like there, when we talk about the, the preacher railing against homosexuality, we just show an empty pulpit and we had a, uh, we reached out to a local Lutheran church. My father was the Lutheran minister. And in fact, it's interesting, Tim Wahl is, is a Minnesota Lutheran, you know, and I, I have been frustrated as someone who grew up in the Christian faith, that I feel like people who represent Christianity now, uh, it's the spear-based Christianity and I do not recognize the teachings of Jesus in any of it. And I've been encouraged that, uh, there are more and more evangelical and, and people from a lot of the traditional Christian churches that are finally standing up and say, no, this isn't who we are. This is supposed to be a love-based, uh, you know, spiritual path, not, not one based in fear. It's about helping each other, loving each other. And, um, so I've been encouraged by that. And the Lutheran church that we, we filmed that, they said, well, we're happy to have you do this. Just please communicate that we're not those people, you know, that we actually are a loving faith community. So we, in the, in the credits, we, we mentioned that, you know, thank you to your Trinity Lutheran church, Pasadena, California, for, you know, for offering their church, uh, you know, they are loving, welcoming, you know, accepting congregation. And I think that that's important that people have to feel. And I think, um, real, I can tell you in the gay community, so many, so many of my gay brothers and sisters, LGBTQ brothers and sisters turned away from organized religion because they did not feel accepted and loved. And they saw the damage it was doing. I had a friend who was a preachers kid, a Calvary Chapel preachers kid. And he, when his dad found out he was gay, he sent him to get electroshock therapy. And he's, he's like a shell of who he used to be. He's jumpy and jittery and completely confused. And yeah, because you lose trust in humanity at that point, when the closest people to you that you trust intimately with your life, when they turn on you, especially on something that is so tender and dear to you. And kind of like this hidden secret to you, right? It's like the hidden thing, the hidden truth. Um, then it's like, okay, now I'm going to come out and tell you this is, you know, it shouldn't even be like you have to come out. Like it's just, this just, you know, hi, you know, right? It should be just that way. But it's, you know, we have to go through steps apparently. And the reality is, you know, when you trust someone that much, how are you going to trust anybody ever again? And so how do we build community? So that's why part of why I think our country is so segregated and humanity itself is that the closest people to you do the worst things at times when you need it the most. And a lot of times they're doing it, like Jeff was saying, it's fear, you know, fear does that. And oh, you're not like me, you're supposed to be the identity, you know, you're supposed to be a splitting clone of me and your mother, you know, no, that's it. And there's a weird, you know, you got to look at historically how society has gone from gene to gene from era to era generation to generation. And, you know, family history is cool to look at cool things. Oh, so and so like tomatoes. Oh, so and so killed people. That's not cool. We don't like that. But so it's kind of a weird, hard thing. But maybe kindness, hope, joy, we do more of that and actual listening, put the phone down, put the damn phone down, put it down, throw it away. I don't care what it is, take it away, get together and actually have conversations about things where you can bond instead of not bond. I wanted to ask, go ahead. I just Linda, I went to Parkland. What was interesting to me was that the the kids who kind of took the lead on this came from creative community. And you show, you know, artists and they were theater kids and all this. And I think that they were people that tend to be to have found a voice through the art. So do you, would you corroborate that or? Yeah, I mean, you know, novel, Lundy, the mother, the pain and all the portraits. Yeah. A lot of the parents were incredibly talented people and encouraged the, you know, it was always a community where there were no, I don't want to say boundaries because boundaries, you know, are good. But it was always giving the kids a lot of confidence to be courageous. And I think, you know, the arts, it does that. It builds confidence and your brain, it's just like if you've ever studied the neural arts, right? It's just building synapses. I'm sorry to get so technical. I'm just doing actually a documentary on this right now. Oh, cool. I want to know more. Yeah, the neural arts. And it's, it's fascinating. So what you're saying is you've got these parents that are encouraging them to paint, encouraging them to sing and dance. So they're very creative kids already. But that's because their brains are just expanding with all these, you know, these, these wonderful neurons and dopamine and serotonin and, and then plus their parents giving them a lot of confidence and saying you can do it, you know, be the light you want to see in the world. That saying was written way long when my kids went to school there in the, in the 2000, that big saying be the light you want to see in the world was written in the courtyard of their, of the high school. So it was always encouraging to, to shine. Well, can we just also think about, you know, Marjorie herself, can we just say that I think she said an example for a school, you know, you know, Marjorie Stone and Douglas. I mean, she was an inspiration of doing something that men thought she shouldn't do too, right? So she kind of went against the grain. And look who she was. Can we just say that that school also represented her, her name, instead of every president's name, right? Oopsie. Did I say that? Right. Yeah, no, what's, what's wonderful. Yeah, she was a real trailblazer. You know, she saved the Everglades. Thank you. I love her. Yeah, she was a trailblazer. I got to tell you, as an aside, as a young reporter, she's one of the first people I ever interviewed when I was about 24 years old. Are you kidding me? I interviewed her, ironically. And she was the toughest interview to this date that I've ever had. You know, when you're a young reporter, the worst thing your worst fear is that you're going to be told that your questions are stupid. That's what she everything I said, she was like, girly, girly, girly, you know, I was just young and, you know, just asking questions. And anyway, she'll always go down as the woman that taught me, do your research before you start asking questions. Right. So she had an impact on me, I can tell you. Oh, wow. That's amazing. We started our tour because of the Everglades. Yeah, I love you. The perks are challenging the country because of her and the Everglades. Yeah, she was a real Spitfire. When I interviewed her, she was 100 101. And yeah, she lived by herself. She wasn't going to go into any sort of assisted living or nursing home. And she was just tell it like it is, you know, and you don't know time for frivolities, right? No, right there, right to the point. Well, you know, guy, I kind of missed some of that nowadays, except for when it's really cruel, there's like, yeah, here, I'm going to tell you this, I don't have much air left. So I'm going to give you the points. And if you get upset about it, you're going to have to get upset about it. But before that's part of growing up, right, and learning your lessons. And and that's okay kind of stuff. As we close up here, I wanted to touch on the hope part. And see, Susan, I think you had you had something you were you were talking about earlier that we didn't quite get as well. I wanted to circle back and make sure I touch back. Well, I was just going to say in we do make an effort to reconnect with our kids doesn't mean we're doing everything right. But one of the things we try to do is once a week, all four of us get away from the rest of our lives and go out to eat some place together where we have to sit there and wait for the waitress to take our order and wait for them to prepare the food. And we have a no phone rule. So we actually speak. And it's often lively. It's usually very funny. But it's we do try just to unplug from the rest and actually have a little direct communication. I certainly feel better for it. I think it's good for the kids too. I think it's great. And I think it's great that you go. This is a designated time. So everybody can go, you know, even because that's the thing too, you know, there's people with work commitments and stuff. You mark it on your schedule. That's it. Yeah, quiet time. I'm here to hear just like at some point, you have to get asleep, right? How many people sleep with their phones? Don't look at me. It's terrible. Look at me. I'm so glad this audio right now. I know because now everybody's wearing everything. And I'm like, are we going to beam up? And they're saying like how phones can give you radiation and cancer and stuff. And I'm like, how many people are sleeping with their phones? How many people are wearing things on their wrist all day long and all of that? Like eventually, what is the point of this? You know, we lived and thrived without at all. So I mean, at some points are, I mean, right now I'm not going to go against it. I mean, we have half technology as we record this today, but we wanted to do. But so it's good. It's still really great that we can do this. So it's good stuff. But it's about balance. And I think sometimes things go to extreme to get to balance, right? And I think, Jeff, I wanted to touch on that with you about extreme because being in a cult, that is extreme. And it's extreme, especially from youth going in, right? Extreme. And then you have to find balance, right? Isn't that what it's like going from that part? When I left, there were so many things that I would not touch on or really research because I already knew all the answers. That's the VX. I would give that group, that organization, because it's really not a church. But that was a tax point that Hubbard, the founder, decided, "Oh, this is great. I can get all the land I want, tax free, pay no taxes and pay no taxes on the organization." But the point that you're making, it's one of the most extreme organizations that I've ever seen, regardless of when I was in it. So I relate to these other extreme organizations as well. And that's why I brought up the critical thinking. They absolutely do not want you to question anything. It's the rules or the rules or the universal laws, the universal laws. And that's it. That's the truth. And in Johnny's song, going back to the song, "Bringing out a child to believe those things." And then you tell them they're worthless. The preacher says, "And then you just you don't have any out because you can't think." And that's what these extremes are about. It's the dogma. It's so severe. It's connected to a core fear. And I'll go even earlier. It's connected to death. And when you can make peace with that, which a lot of religions allow you to do without all the dogma, those people tend to be very altruistic and warm and compassionate. And then you have the organizations, including the churches. And what happens, they're so extreme, because the leader of that church, it might be an individual church, or it might be a large religion. And I'm not going to name any other names. People believe that's the only path to immortality. And that's what I'll leave you with. I do not lose my immortality. And if I left Scientology, I was going to lose everything. I mean, look at Heaven's Gate that happened in Rancho Santa Fe, California, and everybody beamed up with barbiturates and their tennis shoes. What the hell? Well, I mean, seriously, it's insane. And we had a gentleman on the show is known as Dr. Death that is the cleanup guy who goes to hurricanes, he goes to cult, murder, mass murder of cults. And he was talking about that. And he's written self-help books. In other words, people get on it. We've got to all be walking thinking beings. If you can't walk, wheel, or whatever you need to do, but thinking beings, no matter what our abilities and disabilities are, you will find an ability, and you will find a disability. Everybody's got a disability in some format. Everybody has an ability, right? And we've got to start thinking. Goes back to that critical thinking. And if you're going to have a family, you have to get into that mode, right? You have to question things. And yes, make mistakes. But, you know, compassion and heart and soul and joy, love, that has to be at the centerpiece of it all, right? And for our youth, it has to be. Don't ignore the signs. I think it's brilliant now that they're starting to call the parents in when kids are going in and doing the shootings and bringing them in to the court cases now. I think it's brilliant. I mean, I know if I was to do something like, there's no way, I couldn't get away, and I did get away with stuff, but not thing crazy, right? But my mom would have nailed me. Like, she would have known something is off. How can we have this distance with our kids? Why? So that you can work extra 20 hours and get another car? What is it? What is it that our society has done that society rules are so important? The society become the cult. How about that, Jeff? Really? I see I'm very positive in my outlook. And at the same time, you know, as you said, I'm letting my instincts that I didn't have. I think when you're in a group that's tightly organized and controlling, you get this thing of they don't want you to have instincts. And so now, being out of it, I look at it, and I really see that I forget your question. Well, I was saying society itself. Well, society, I think there's a great, I think, great historian civilization expert called Ken Wilbur. I recommend him highly. He wrote a booklet when Donald Trump took over the presidency, but it's not about Trump per se, it's about civilization. We are at a point where our civilization, and I believe it's going to go in the right direction, we are going to hit the next level of civilization, which is more spiritual. And spiritual doesn't mean religiousness. Early it means compassion. It means understanding yourself and having a freedom of understanding yourself. We have no freedom if we're in a call or you're in a highly controlling environment, you don't have that freedom to be who you are. And this, and then the song reflects that so well, I think, going back to your kid. So yeah, I think so. You know, what I was going to say is I want to close with some hope. Yeah, because the societal part of it is, it's, I just feel like we're trying to box everyone in and everything in all ways. And from all sides, like everybody has to do this, and this is how it's going to be. And I think everybody's freaking out about all of it on all sides, in all honesty, because we're human beings, and we still have some wild animalistic sides of us, you know, and there's independence, we want independence, we want to be free thinkers, artists, musicians, we want to be that, right? So when everybody tells you what to be and what to do, we start to rebel against it. And then we start going for the loose cannons, because they have some kind of freedom by being the loose cannon. And that's how we get rolled again, right? And not, we don't get to be free. So the reality is it's about freedom within ourselves. It's about freedom in our community, our space, and critical thinking is important. But freedom is important. Make no mistake. And freedom doesn't come from other people telling you what to do. So in all rights, we have to look at that, how things are done, how things are said, are we alienated people? Yeah, I mean, I think every group of people in all ways are alienating someone somewhere, because we're not perfect either. So there's something I learned from a friend today on a podcast called Grace, have some grace for each other, give each other some breathing space to be imperfect, give each other some breathing space to also be exactly who they are, you know? We all learn different things at different times. And that's the hard part about Johnny's song. Parents learned too late. The church came on board too late. And doing shows like this, we're just trying to speed up that learning a little quicker. Does that make sense, Johnny? We don't want to. Yeah, exactly. And for me, music has always been the driving force. I do talk about Melissa Manchester a lot, because she, when I was in the closet, scared lonely, her music was the beacon of light that got me through. And so I'm so blessed that I've gotten to become friends with her, you know, and through Sue. And she's always to have an activist, you know, part of her music. She wrote a song called Mother's and Father's Prayer about the Columbine shootings. And then for Linda's documentary, she wrote a film We Are the Fire, which is now, you know, through, again, through Sue, I was able to meet Linda. And so she understands, and she did this on the power of ribbons for breast cancer. So she's very in tune to how music can impact. And I've taken my cue from that. I wrote a song a while back about the detention centers called What Kind of Love, where I sing out about, you know, family being separated. And so I think that for me, I've had people tell me, I'll just stay away from all that stuff and just write about other things. And I can't. I, you know, I think it's really important that our music or whatever our, you know, we're in, that it expresses what's going on in our head. And for me, this is it. Well, it's authenticity. Like I said, you write from integrity. And that's what I'm saying. Like I said, other people go, Oh, this is a hot societal button. Let's do this. That's right, a song that has sports in it and see how much money I make, right? Because it'll always be played on the field. So it's the same thing. And yet there's authenticity and reality and connectivity that comes from it. And it's important. And no one should tell anybody what to write about or sing about. It's no one's business. I don't care. I don't care if it's a record manager or not. It's none of their business. You know, you do what you're supposed to do in life. Oh, sorry. Yeah, it was fun that I that I just wrote that I want to record called not every song. It's basically not every song that's meant for you. And so it's a cool thing. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. Okay, let's close out with some messages of hope from what we've talked about. And I want to say this before my hope is that messages of hope for all of these issues that our youth are facing. And we don't want to lose them to suicide. We don't. And they shouldn't we don't want the baggage. They shouldn't carry baggage through their lives, either their future lives, right? Jeff, you were talking about them having less of, you know, the past more of the future. So let's not have them having a heavy load of baggage to go into the future. You know, I really think it's so important that they walk in with a light load and the load that they carry may be just smarts and happy and joy and excitement and passion, you know, compassion, empathy, things that they want to do in life, right? So maybe we all look at that as a community because we're all in this world together. It's a small world and it's a big world. It's a humbling world. But yeah, it's still pretty great. And it is small as we know Johnny, right? And all these shows we all have connected and stuff and find out connections we who like, how did you know this person? Oh, I do, you know, but it is a small world. So all of our actions should be about like our community. So which is not easy always, right? Because we're still human. So when we look at the arts, the role that each of you play, I think it's so important because we have nutcases out there like, you know, that other dude, you know, that Alex Jones, people like that, like, we have to override it with the truth, the authenticity again, the hope and the positivity. And that kind of cruelty should not exist. And I'm bringing him up. And I didn't even want to say his name, but I want to make sure people go and see what the heck. So that we can make these changes in society to move forward and support each other. Because you have someone like that, that kills out another bunch of people, right? And just by a stupid mouth. And so what we can do. We're kind of cruelty. Yeah, and it's a stupid mouth. It's an evil one. It's disgusting, you know. But the arts have a way of winning. And so when we look at investing in things and thinking in things, if an artist has sat there and really sweated over a song over a film, a documentary, a written book, poetry, a dance movement, a theater production, right? All of that. Do you know how much sweat and blood goes into every word, every little note? It's not just, oh, put that note in there. No, no, no. It's so much unseen work that goes in there that they want you to feel and feel first, then go back and start going, Oh, maybe I need to think more. So it's so important. I feel like that's what's so important about the show and what Johnny has written and all of you that what if you've done in your life work is so credible and so wonderful. So thank you first. So closing with hope, because I think the arts carry the hope. So let's go to you, Sue. What is your hope? Well, I think if the reporting and the polls are to be believed, we are in a hopeful moment. Where young people are deciding to engage in the process. And I think they've gravitated to this new message, what three-week-old message of hope. It seems to be resonating with them. And so that is encouraging to me. I would also think just one other thing that I was reminded of in this conversation was a book that I read ages ago by Jerry Jan Polsky. And it's called Love is Letting Go of Fear. And we've touched on fear so much in this conversation. It's a really important book. His basic hypothesis is that there are only two genuine human emotions, love or fear. And that anything that comes at you that's positive is really love in some form. And anything that comes at you that's negative, anger. It's based on the course of miracles, what time the student of. There you go. Fear based is fear based. And so sometimes it helps when what looks so scary and so menacing coming at you. Sometimes it helps to realize they're really just afraid. Right. That's really right. I want to give a book out too. Jane Mursky, later or later, was on our show back in 2018 with her book Breaking the Cycle of Teen Suicide for Teens, Adults and Educators. Very important. And yeah, she's written a lot about suicide. And I mean, I'm looking at some of her stats, the stat on reading the page of her podcast on our site in 2015, a new study, a new study back then by the National Center for Health Statistics reported that the suicide rate among girls between the ages of 15 and 19 reached a 40 year high. Wow. Between 2007 and 2015, the suicide rate for those girls doubled. For young males, there was a 31% increase. That was back. We interviewed her in 2018. Think about where we are now. We've had, you know, COVID in the mixed, and I brought that up at the beginning of the show because that's when people started distance, right? You know, kids have to do zoom. Zoom education when they've just blocked themselves off of the videos that, oh, my internets do it, not good. And I'm just going to text and stuff, you know, it's sad. It's so we've got to move forward. We've got to move forward. So let's go to you, Jeff. What is your message of hope? My message of hope, whether you believe in astrology and the energy of the sun and the planets, one thing that is happening, whether we like it or not, everything's lining up right now as it did around 1776 and just before the Renaissance. And the hope is what these people see in some of them are very knowledgeable is that we are due, there's a good possibility that we're going to be hitting an incredible Renaissance starting at the end of 2025. And I believe that that's what I feel so far, everything that I've seen, that's what we're going for. And that's going to be wonderful for all generations, but especially the young generations. They've got a lot on their shoulders. I mean, it's on top of that, look at how school is now. I mean, get into this college. And if you go to college here, here's your debt here. You get to go bankrupt, you know. And by the way, there's climate change. Well, you can survive it, you know. So there's a lot. And I love what you're saying because I think things get harder before they get better. Absolutely. They always get harder. And the time you want to throw in the towel is the time when it's about to change. So don't throw in the towel. Because the next day could be when everything changes over. The next breath, the next step, the next everything, how many times any of us have said, Oh, screw this. I'm done. And then something changes, right? Yeah, it happens. It happens. It's real. It's, it's, you know, it's reality because things go in cycles in life and history repeats, right? And right now, I feel like the world is just actually detoxing all the crap. That's how I, that's my message of how I feel. That's a good one. Yeah, we're on a fast and we're just getting all the crap out of, I mean, sorry for using that word, but getting the crap out of our body of earth, we're just dispelling of it. And when it comes out, it's ugly, right? Like a pimple is ugly when it like does its thing. But then people watch that weird stuff on. Yeah. Anyway, got to help you documentary makers. Don't do that stuff, man. I don't want to watch that. People do apparently. There's some kind of relief out of it, right? It's like, Oh, here comes this horrible nasty thing. We want to see it come out and go. And I think that's what we're part of. That's my hope on that. But Linda, Linda, tell, tell us your side of hope. Because like you were saying, Parkland was really the lens of hope. Yeah. And I'll just make this really short, but I was trying to think of one of the greatest sound bites. And it came from a freshman who was in that room, a very quiet, young person, and was really traumatized by the whole thing. But he raised his head through tears and said, you know, after every storm, there is a rainbow. And to me, that's resilience. To me, that is positivity. And to me, that is hope. And I'll just leave it there. Yeah, I love that. I love that. Dolly Parton always reminds us of that, right, too. I love that. It's so true. It's so true. Johnny, it's your song. You close it. What's your hope? Well, you know, Mr. Rogers, and I'm paraphrasing, but he said, you know, when something, when a tragedy happens, look for the dude that are the people who are out there rolling up their sleeves. And I'm encouraged that, you know, we hear about so many people who are stepping up and trying to do things in different ways. And I connected with the Trevor Project because of the first verse of the song and just being suicide prevention month, they're doing a walk 25 miles for the Trevor Project. And so I'm a part of that. And so I'll be, you know, walking to get my 25 miles in and then tie the song in with it, you know, and make little video clips and play parts of the song and just talk about, you know, how we need to look out for each other. And if someone seems despondent, don't let it go, you know, reach out to them and let them know they're not alone. And so I'm grateful that so many people are there. I'm sorry. How do you need it? I want to do it. We have our one hour walk club on Facebook, hashtag one hour walk. I can think. Yeah, if you go to TrevorProject.org, get all the information there. And yeah, yeah, actually that ties in really well with your walking group. So absolutely. Yeah. It's a way of, you know, bringing attention to what they do. And they're there 24/7, 365 days a year. If kids need to talk, they can text and they can call and talk to somebody who will, you know, help them through it. And so I just think that all around us, there are people stepping up and trying to make the world better in whatever way they feel called to do. And that makes me hopeful. I love that. I love that the kids have a place to go because we were listening to, we were driving, I think across the, across Texas recently, one of the many trips across Texas is here. And there was a radio, I think was on NPR, I'm not sure. And they were talking about a radio station locally that it was Houston. It was out of Houston. And actually we know a lady who had a lesbian radio station, she only played lesbian musicians. But this was a channel back in the 80s, I think. And people that would vacation there would hear there is an LGBTQ, which I don't think that was even called that at that time channel. And people, it was the only thing that identified with them, if they would go on vacation, like to Galveston or whatever. And here, this channel that was completely gay and musicians that were coming through town would go there. And it was during the HIV crisis too. And here was a radio station that was about that. And nobody was doing it at the time. There was no one to connect with people at the time. And I think that's pretty darn amazing. Like, there are projects like that, like the Trevor project, there are, you know, places where people can go. So when you don't feel like, oh, do it, I mean, like call out, find, reach out. There are people who will talk with you and probably give you insight that maybe you don't have at the time, maybe emotions are running high, right? And that's the thing. Emotions run high. When you're not feeling wanted, when you're not feeling listened to, emotions run high. And that is where suicide can come in. Because if you feel like you're a problem in everyone's life too, is that part of it? Also, Johnny, kids could feel like, yeah, you are a problem. You're this, maybe we're voting this way. Now you're embarrassing our family. There's all of that. I actually, I actually blamed myself for my dad having multiple sclerosis. And when my parents got divorced, I thought it was because I was gay. So I put that all on myself, which later on, I was shown that, you know, that's ridiculous, but it didn't feel that way at the time. Well, kids always blame themselves for their parents getting divorced, right? So we don't, kids, we don't have all the intel. So again, before we close, I want to give the number is 988 that is the suicide and crisis lifeline. And also go to thetraverproject.org. You can also go to 1-866-488-7386. Also text start to 678-678. So please, those are some places you can go have a conversation with someone who can probably help at that moment that you need it because we're all wanted in this world. Thank you. Yes. Thank you so much, Johnny. I'm so glad you got us to do the show. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Thank you all for joining us. Thank you, Jeff. Thank you, Linda. Sue, thank you so much. You're welcome. Thank you for listening to Big Blend Radio. Keep up with our shows at bigblendradio.com. [MUSIC PLAYING]
