[MUSIC PLAYING] Welcome to Emotionally Unavailable, the podcast where we dive deep into the world of emotional availability and intimacy. I'm your host, Melissa Hepner. And I can't tell you how excited I am to have you join me on this journey of self-discovery and connection. Whether you're navigating the complexities of relationships or exploring your own emotional landscape, this podcast is here to inspire, empower, and entertain. So get cozy and let's explore the depths of human emotions together. Hey, guys. Today's episode is with Reina Odell. She lives in Colorado. She is doing so many things. She is an author and a writing coach, and she does writing retreats and manifestation work, all the same stuff I'm into. So you will love her. And I will make sure that all of her information is in the show notes. So I hope you enjoy. [MUSIC PLAYING] [INAUDIBLE] So it's so weird because sometimes people are in before I get in. Sometimes it makes me let them in, and then sometimes they just pop up. [INAUDIBLE] Like, there's never any difference in the reason. So hello. I love it. OK. So I've followed you for a really long time. So I have all these things to ask, but I have nothing to-- it's crazy. I'm like, it's an hour. What are you taught? There's so much that I would want to cover. So here's where I'm going to start. OK, so I started following you. God, I couldn't even tell you. I think it was somewhere around 2016, something like that. And only unfollowed maybe like two years ago or something just because I made my entire Instagram nothing but mental health. And started following you. You were in kind of a fitness space. And so I had to rid of everyone in that space because I was making peace with my boss. So, but then on your email list. So I would read occasionally. But I was in some deep, dark depression. You know, so I was like, oh shit, that would be great. But I'm about to die. So I don't think this is for me right now, like even in a mindset shift. And then you know, you can only be depressed enough. And you start to go, OK, we need to address the dissection in our lives. And really, I didn't even know like it's embarrassing almost to say this, although like I, you know, I'm learning to become emotionally available. So everything's embarrassing to me to like be vulnerable. But like, I just had no idea how stuck I felt in every single part of my life. And I would see that the truth is now that I've done this work on myself, I'm sure that I actually unfollowed because I saw in you something that I wanted to pursue and did not feel like I personally had the capacity to do it. And not on any one particular thing. Because you know what I'm saying when you're like, oh yeah, I feel you, I hear you, I'm resonating, but I'm so lost in the dark. And, you know, I think the hardest part to accept for me is that A, I didn't know, B, I didn't know everything that I still didn't know, because I've always been the person in the friend group that knew, you know. And I know about my stuff even. It was very bizarre. And you know about that too. So I don't even have to go into that. But just to like, man, I have all this education. I have all this experience. So I will all law. And then here I am sitting in the middle of my own deep, dark, soul gut-wrenching shit, you know. And anyway, so I went through that, cool. And then I opened up the newsletter. I mean, I don't read every single one of them. Obviously, my email's fucking ridiculous. But that day I was like, oh, Raina, you know. And I was like, holy shit, Raina's doing a lot right now. And my soul just feels called to you. Like, I wasn't sure how I was going to say this. But because I really didn't want you to doubt my intentions for asking you to be on my show, because you do have a huge following. And it would be easy for me to try to capitalize on that. So that's why I was like, we can do it anonymous. Whatever you want. It doesn't have to be, I just know you have this story. But for me, this is a full circle moment. And I want to tell you that, because I want you to know that you get to be a full circle moment today. And it's a really big deal, because you know the work. I'm fucking crying on a Monday morning. Jesus Christ. This doesn't happen that much. It'll be a good week. I'm like, hello, geez, didn't even know where that came from. But I mean, you know, just my opt-in to itself is just like, so grateful that you were willing to do this. And that-- Of course. I get to be in this place in my life, where I'm-- I can't even talk. Jesus. This is so-- This is so unlike me. It's crazy. But I just-- I'm so happy for me, too, that I get to be in a space where I don't hate my life. And I'm pursuing passion, joy, authenticity, everything that I feel that you are so in alignment with. And so I really wanted to just start there and let you know. I'm so grateful for you. And that you have been so willing to document so many hard things. I mean, I followed you along some really serious shit in your life. And you know how it is when you follow someone on-- first that long? Like, you feel like you kind of know them anyway. Like, you know, there's that-- It's been lying between-- because I was viewing everything you were doing in my own world through my own wounding. And I mean, it's always been really impressed by you. But I wonder, too, especially in the last newsletter that I got, I have been in this place probably just a few months really identifying who I am, who I want to be, what steps I'm doing going forward. But what I found is it really took this masculine energy to be strong and to survive this shit that I personally have survived. But that now it was one day I realized like, I'm so tired of being called strong. I don't want to identify as strong because, yes, I was strong. But I wasn't given a lot of choice. Like, I was given a real shit circumstances in childhood. And overcoming that has been a 20-year process or more. And now I want to be soft and I want to be held. And I want to be feminine and structured. And I want to nurture myself and this is the first time in my life. I'm able to have compassion at this level because I'm not judging. I'm not hating. I'm just not even on myself. I'm literally just like, dude, if you're being a human and fucking up, I'm sorry. I'm just being a little bit near good. I got mine in my lap, too. I figured out that she gets it. She gets it. Belle is a bitch. So we just got to wear it because she smelled food. But I wondered if that had been part of your journey that you felt really in your masculine energy and balancing now the dark with the light. Yeah, no, it's funny that you say, we almost weren't given a choice. And on one hand, I say that. And I'm like, yes, we weren't given all of these circumstances that forced us to be tough and build this shell and show up in a certain way. And also, it was a choice we made. We could have done total opposite, right, and gone down a totally different-- who knows what that could have looked like. But I think that that's a characteristic that a lot of us, especially female, have to-- we choose to kind of embody in order to survive and build something better. And that is such a theme throughout my entire life, stepping into that masculine energy. And I mean, God, when you started following me, that was like masculine, right, crazy. You know what I mean? I was like, fuck you, fuck you. You don't-- fuck you, too. I'm going to blow up. It was a crazy season of my life. And I think it was probably-- it wasn't until 2022, probably when I ended a relationship I was in, the one after my divorce. I ended that relationship. And I don't think I knew how to step into my feminine energy. I think I resisted it a lot, and I cried a lot. And I had to disconnect a lot to try to figure out what was missing. And it was that it was me stepping into my feminine and giving myself permission to be soft and heal those pieces of myself. And I've written a little bit about what that looks like for me and having to say, OK, something is missing. It was missing in my relationship. It's missing in my day to day. What's missing? And I had to make a list of all the things that were missing. And it was laughter. And it was being playful, and it was being spontaneous. And it was affection. And all of these things that I think is women we want, but we're like, I don't need it. I remember there's this running joke in my house with my two daughters, and we're like, we don't need a man. We don't need a man. And we say that all the time, have said that all the time. And it almost took me figuring out how to take care of myself and realize that I was whole within myself that allowed a feminine side to come out. I still have the masculine side, but it's not as loud. It's not as-- I can sit down at work and be like, OK, channel some masculine, what do we need to get done? Yes. You know what I mean? But that feminine is so much louder now. And oh my gosh, I look back at all of the things that happened when I was so deeply in my masculine. And I'm like, that-- I don't even know who that person is. There's no possible way I could go back to who that human is. Yes. Yeah, like you said, the laughter and the light-- if I had not forced the pursuit of those exact things onto myself, I mean, this feminine realization is very, very new for me. I mean, I've been clawing my way out of the worst part since October. But even April, when I really started, like, OK, we're moving. You know how it is when you start hitting the roadblocks. And I'm like, listen, universe, I barely made it out alive. So if we could get a little less resistance, but damn it, I knew I was going to be so grateful, even in those hard times. And every roadblock has forced a new path and a new way of thinking. And just recently, you know, something happens. And I'm just like, OK, what's the intention here? Because I know that everything around-- like, I'm so distracted by your 4, 4, 4 necklace, because I need you to understand that 4 is a very significant number for me. So I like, again, confirmation on some shit that's popped up this morning. Thank you, Reina. Thank you. Of course not. Yeah, with feminine shit, you know, it really-- it really, for me, I think, started in thinking about the things that I'm teaching my daughter and how to balance-- because, listen, I'm raising a feminist and I don't give a fuck, because I'm trying to teach her the balance, too. But she's so fucking sweet and just kind-hearted. Sometimes I'm like, oh, thank God. I don't know what we've got ahead of us, but at least right now, you know, I didn't fuck you up too bad. But yeah, I'm trying to balance societal expectations with her. Who are you? And even I've backed up a little bit and been like, you've got to meet her where she is. You don't need to be telling her in any way that she needs to change. Just model that shit. So I tried to figure out where that balance is with me. And particularly, how do I deal with older people, you know, like who haven't necessarily caught on and have been teaching her, you know, if you don't know them and you're not comfortable, you don't have to say thank you if they compliment you. You know, like, you have to learn to listen to your intuition about who is safe and who isn't safe for you to communicate with. And in teaching her about her intuition and how to lean into who she is, coupled with just learning how the fuck to actually appreciate myself, which is, you know, a journey, I think that's whenever I was like, oh, yeah, there's this whole other side to me that I have not tapped into ever. I was loving other people in that way. Hardcore. They didn't want it. I feel like I have surrounded myself my whole life with emotionally unavailable people to confirm the shit narratives that were created in childhood. And I was like, the core narrative is the same as everybody else. I'm always going to be alone. Everyone will leave me. I have to deal with all the big shit on my own. The weight of the world is on my shoulders and mine alone. And that's what I walk through life believing. And I mean, I'm trying to create more of a community now, but I have had to leave a lot. And I wouldn't have expected that because I've had great boundaries for a really long time, but some people just aren't in alignment anymore and you just have to move faster and it's painful, but it is what it is. But I wondered if you could pinpoint a time or what really sparked or helped you to find that this was the piece that you were missing? I mean, it was leaving that relationship and just kind of feeling like I didn't feeling stuck, I guess, like not knowing the direction I needed to go. And that was kind of a time to where I felt a weight off my shoulders but also a heaviness because I didn't know the direction I was going. I had been in a space for decades where I was like, I know exactly where I'm going. I know what's next, I know what I'm pushing for, I know what this, I know what my business looks like, I know what XY and Z, I had like a clear plan in front of me. And it was almost a realization for the first time that I had no idea where I was going and no idea what I wanted, but I felt like free for the first time. And I had been deep in self-development books and kind of reading and researching and listening. And every book was pointing me towards like, you need to just be like, I had been in this hustle mentality for so long where, and it was no longer serving me, business was declining in fact. Like, and I was like working harder and I need, what do I need to do more of? I need to do more, I need to do more and in that space. And every single book I was reading was pushing this, you need to be, no, you need to be in your joy, you need to be in a slow down, you need to be in complete opposite of what I had known. And so I'm a very good, like, I can put in action, right? If you tell me what to do, I can put in action. And so I was like, okay, I'm gonna, that was when, you know, on social media I'd talk a lot about pausing. And I said, okay, what would bring me joy? And the image of like horses kept coming up. And I had no idea, you know, it was like from childhood stuff of like, when do I remember being like free and laughing? And things like that. And it was like horses kept coming up. So I signed up to do like writing lessons at a local ranch. And I just put in these little action steps that were like pushing me towards like disconnecting and being in that more feminine, kind of just a surrender instead of a push. And it was that just every single day I would be in that. And I would create boundaries around work and say, okay, I'm not, you know, working from the time I wake up to the time I go to bed anymore, I'm gonna start at 10 a.m. And I'm gonna be done at 3 p.m. And I'm gonna put boundaries around that. And that's when I started doing my time blocking. And I would get organized with in that space. What am I doing so that I can still feel productive? But then when I'm off work, I'm in my joy again. And what does that look like? And it was just, it was almost like holding younger Raina's hands through all of this to say like that we do that. It's fine that we disconnect. You're not a lazy piece of shit for watching an episode of something like so much relearning in the process of finding that feminine and finding my slowdown and finding my joy. Does that resonate? - Because if you said so much of what you did before all of it, fuck, it all worked. It was working for you. - It did. - It happened that everyone slammed us a little bit to be like, bitch, you're off track. You're off track. That's not the shit you got to move. And I had, listen, Pluto done wrecked my whole mother fucking life. Okay, like it was, and now like, you know, so surprisingly I cried on the podcast a couple weeks ago because it was the first time I wasn't triggered by saying that I could be grateful for the shit because I, you know, if you're not in a place to understand that, not just hear it, but for it to sink into the depths of your soul and to feel this utmost fucking gratitude for the shit, I hear that and I'm not telling you to before you're ready, but I fucking can't wait for people to get to that place because that is pure fucking joy. I mean, I was just crying in it, but it was like this release of like pain, like, okay, we're past that. And I now have the most solid footing I've ever been on, but it's weird because even, I'm sure this same thing happened because it's not like I didn't know before, you know? I mean, and what I was doing was working for a while, but even in this new adventure, I really felt the most of the call to the feminine when I was like, okay, structuring everything, you know, like my days are really busy. And I'm like, okay, this and this and this. And I was trying to budget and the budget is what really was like, you have to slow down here because money is not, yeah, I'm ready for health, wealth, prosperity and abundance and I deserve it and it's coming and that is great, but it's never been my north. My north is a global impact. I want to take this shit to the world because I'm great at what I do as a therapist and I want to teach others how to do that, but it's really about healing yourself before you go and try to help others in any capacity as a teacher, as a doctor, as a police officer, as a therapist. Like this is my message that you right now are worthy of all the shit you're telling your clients or your students or whoever that they are worthy of. I know that if I didn't know that I was struggling so hard, I didn't know I had a perfectionism wound. I did not know I was trying so fucking hard to be perfect. I thought I was pretty okay with accepting whatever, but then here I am when I'm learning to address my shame, it's popping up over and over and over over some dumb ass shit and I'm like, oh, apparently I am a perfectionist and that means so much more than just, you know, your crafts 'cause I'm not crafty, I'm not extra in any way like I would love to be. It's not who I am, you know, any tourist friend I have, they own the rights to everything on Pinterest, I'm quite sure, but that's not me. So I didn't know that, you know, I had any sort of standard that was really illogical, irrational, and just never gonna be met. Every standard I had, myself was that. And it spewed out of me in the most hateful ways sometimes because everything anyone around me did sparked a real fear deep inside of me and I was triggered at all times. I have a very extensive history of trauma and working through that has been really hard because I had no idea that to regulate your nervous system, you had to regulate your emotions, nor did I know that I wasn't feeling. I was doing everything in my power to run from every ounce of feeling that I've ever had. So now I cry and that's what we do. - And it's okay. - It is, it's still hard to be that level of vulnerable but like I'm so glad that I'm able to do it because I mean, I just never, I was the person who was like, yeah, no, I want people in the delivery room with me because that will keep me like not crying, not showing pain, not whatever. I'm just gonna, you know. And that's how I behave and like everything, fine. Yeah. And I never would have said I was a person who wore a mask but I wore a few at all times. Like just bearing so much to try to escape whatever it was inside of me. - Yeah. So no, the mask thing I talk about a lot 'cause I'm like, it feels like, I don't know if you've read my book and it's okay if you haven't but in my book, I kind of go through different, I talk like each chapter is a different life and each life is when I feel like the next life starts when I feel like I'm turning into a different version of myself and it's almost like in each life, there's a mask that has come off and it's like, okay. And each mask reveals like a truer version of Reina like throughout the entire book. So I think it's, I don't wanna say the word normal but I'm gonna say the word normal to like, for us to like, especially having to like survive in our masculine, I feel like every year we have to survive in our masculine, a new mask comes on, right? Because there's like this shell that we have to kind of, you know, have on to protect who we are and what we really have going on. I don't think a lot of people, I think that's why a lot of people don't know who they are because there's so many masks and there's so many shells that they're having to wear. I talk in the book a little bit about like not, like having to take a break on social media because the mask that I was wearing, that I was projecting to the world was like, not even who I am. So in order to take that off, I had to shut off all the noise to even figure out who I was. You know what I mean? So without the impact and energy being absorbed from through the screen. - Well, yeah, because if you think about it, I mean, when you are building a brand the way that you're spent a really long time doing, you get stuck in that brand because that's what people are expecting of you. And we as women don't realize the weight of expectations unless we're examining, you know? And we can take it on, we'll just keep on keeping on, keeping on, not even realizing that's what we're doing. And that is a easier contributing factor to survival mode. Just trying so hard to create a facade that matches this thing that wasn't fake when you started it. That's who you were and you were in the hustle and there's nothing wrong with what you did. You know, like that was your transformation and your journey and you have every right to own, every minute of that. But it sucks if you feel like you are evolving and your space doesn't get to evolve with you. And I can see where that would be. Even aesthetically, your Instagram looks very different than it used to. I love it, I love it. But that can freak people out because as we know, that's not safe to them because you're not fitting in the box anymore. And it's hard enough to overcome that with like your family, for, you know, not fitting in the box that they kind of created for you. But then for you to have so many people watching, while you're just trying, I mean, you were so young, when you started on that, you know? Like there's just so much. - Yeah, she was, yeah. - And of course you were changing, of course. Like I can think about all the different transformations I watched you go through in those years and really normal life cycles, you know? But not everybody, you're right. To your earlier point, not everybody takes the time to transform or the word I love is transcend and come into the person that they were always meant to be. And I think we were meant to be those prior versions of ourselves and those versions got us here and they were great people for what they did. But I, authenticity means so much more to me now than I could have ever imagined because, I mean, I grew up in Oklahoma. I think you grew up in the Midwest too, is that right? - Missouri. - Yeah, yeah. - Yes, that's right, not far from me. So, you know, talking about when you shit, any tarot shit, anything, you know, it's all scary. And at first on the podcast, I was being kind of like quiet about tarot, quiet about astrology. I'm so fucking ate up with astrology. And, you know, trying not to say things like that because it wasn't really a fear of being canceled. I like to make that joke. But it really was the way I was programmed kind of meshing with a new programming to where I'm testifying by being like, well, I don't want people to not get this message because they're so caught up in their own fears because I used to be a religious person. So I know the fear that can happen, if you were raised fucking Southern Baptist, you're not even allowed to talk to somebody who does too. 'Cause you will most certainly go to hell. I don't want people to be afraid to talk to me because they might go to hell, you know? Like, now I'm like, baby, don't start your people. And you have to, you have to be pretending like you're so great that you can resonate with every mother fucker you ever come across. Those are not all your people, honey. You have a way, fucking stay in it. And it doesn't matter, it really doesn't. And I have, I love that you were at this place where you were able to be so fucking honest about all of that too, because there isn't anything to be embarrassed or ashamed of. Who we were was not bad people at all. And our masculine isn't bad, but goddamn it, we couldn't love ourselves or accept love from anyone. So, you know, this is a better place to be. And feminine allows this flow of opportunity of all kinds. I mean, I got so excited over like a free dessert or, you know, like little things that happen that I'm like abundance, you're right, you're right. Everywhere you look abundant. - And I think we can't see that though in the masculine. Like you just saying the word flow, I'm like, yeah, the feminine is a flow. And if we're not in that feminine flow, we're in this masculine clinging on to everything. If we're clinging on to everything, we're not going where the universe wants us to go. And I just wanted to, like, I want to just, we don't have to talk about it, but I want to touch on your like talking tarot and religion and all that stuff. And it just popped him up like, on my dad, I grew up in my dad was a missionary Baptist preacher. And my mom was like, had Stephen King books on her bookshelf. She had tarot cards. She was like, got a ghost hunting events. Like, and so they were clearly divorced, but I just grew up with like two worlds being an auction, you know what I mean? And I lived with my dad for a longer time. So I always was like, kind of told that, that was like, that was the devil. And that was stating your mom's not in a good spin. (mumbles) - You gotta pray for momma. - Yeah, you gotta pray for momma. And then I moved in with my mom and I was like, oh, you might be crazy. And I don't know who, and so I grew up with like this. I don't even know, I don't even care. I don't want to hear about any of it. I want to like figure out from myself. I just resisted all of it. And now as an adult, you know, I'm wearing like a fork before I'm so spiritual and believe that just, I don't know, I'm like, I look back at all the experiences and being in my masculine and just the life that I've had up until now. And I'm like, I am in a space and it sounds like you are too, where I am like, thank God all of that happened. - Thank God all of that happened exactly as it did, whether it was the hardest season of my life or the most joyful, like thank God it all happened because I, 4-4-4 to me is a representation of I'm right where I'm supposed to be. And so I look at it every single day in the mirror and being like, right where I'm supposed to be. Doesn't matter what happens today, it's happening for me. And it is, you know, helping me towards the next step of where I'm supposed to be. - And yeah, I was just talking, so on Fridays, a lot of times, most of the time, I record with a friend and it used to be funny, Reddit episodes, we're doing a book club on a really good book right now, but I was telling her yesterday when we were recording, like I had a couple of different things happen to where I responded in a completely different way than I would have used to, but I was, there was this little tiny pooling of maybe a little shame or something related to perfectionism because I did kind of have to step into that. I'm not gonna call it the masculine, I'm gonna call it my dark feminine, okay? Because I had to be fucking- - I love that. - For a second, you know? And it was, I actually am terrified of, not anymore, but of big dogs. And very specifically with pit bulls because of an incident with my brother when we were kids, it was all related to an actual incident. And I had a grandma who thought it was hilarious to just torment you and think that shit was funny, like the dog will bite you, I don't know, it was a lot of shit. So I carried a lot of fear of dogs. And I was like at this little pet show that I wanted to go to for joy 'cause I knew they were doing little tricks and wearing costumes and I fucking love animals. And I was like, we're doing it. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna have to get high for this though. So I did, and we went and then it was amazing. But a little incident happened where a fucking pit bull's leash, of course, gets wrapped around my legs twice. And I can't fucking move. And I was like, okay, I know that just happened for a reason, I'm gonna chill the fuck out. And I was just trying to calmly get out of the leash before, you know, whatever. But I was making a face because I didn't feel like that the owners had been responsible with their dog. And I wanted to communicate that with my face without having to be rude. I heard her make a comment behind me and I was like, that's your one free comment. And I had my response ready, you know what I mean? Because I was going to say like, no, I in public get to choose and I choose for nobody or no one, nothing to touch my body without my consent. And that's all I was gonna say because it was a simple mistake her child had been in charge of the leash. It's not that big of a deal. But what she didn't know is it was a huge fucking deal for me to even be in this area enclosed behind two gates with very big dogs. And so I was kind of like mad at myself after for even allowing like a level of emotion. Whatever my bitch, you did great. You fucking went and did something that was like amazing. And then we had another little thing. But afterwards when I was processing like, you did great, you weren't like triggered. You responded from a place of love, kindness and compassion, you know, like I could have responded, the old me would have been so fucking triggered that I was, I'm not, I was very confrontational. So let me not like pretend like I was up in people's fate. I was not, but I would have, I kind of started getting that way. So I would have said something, but I didn't feel the need to unless she continued her commentary, which she didn't. And I knew what she was saying was coming from her place of shame, you know, that she knew. She knew that she should have done something differently with this dog and blah, blah, blah. And it was not that big of a deal, but afterwards, I was like, damn, I'm thankful for the opportunity that I got to show myself. I can trust myself that all the shit I've been saying for all these months isn't blowing smoke up my ass or anyone else's, I'm legitimately shifting. And if I hadn't been in my feminine, it would have been completely different because, well, first of all, I don't think the dogs have never responded well to me in my masculine, you know? Like specifically, - It's an interview. - I was afraid. Yeah, and I fucking hated it because they responded that way every time and every owner would be like, they'd start with, I don't want her to, and then they see the dog's reaction to me. And every time it was, they never do that. Bitch, I fucking told you that it would do that. They know who I'm terrified. Put the dog, I don't want to live like that though. I love animals. And I hated when people acted like fear equated to hatred. I'm like, I don't remember ever saying I hate dogs. I love them. And I'm just scared. And this was such a big deal to be able to not be dysregulated. I just went with them to see really cute dog tricks and really cute dog costumes. And I got a chance to practice how to respond in a little mini crisis. But, you know, it was a crisis to me. He knew that dog was running around my legs and he had a very large mouth. And I was like, and funny enough, my brother's intent was like on his leg. The dog took like his entire calf. And so this dog's right there at my calf. And I was like, this is fucking ridiculous. Like I'm like, I don't even know. I get it. You can just say, I was like, I'm here. Whatever, give me as a wrestler, whatever shit I used to say to Jesus, I don't know. Because it's working, it's working. But you know, like I saw in your newsletter, the same thing that I've just been like feeling so much all the time, like I am. I already am. I am all the things I always wanted to be. I just had to uncover and move away the shit I didn't want to be. I'm not at my core different. I am the person that I fucking created myself to be. All of that was a part of getting here. But I'm not any more special than I was then. And I'm not any more worthy. And I'm not any more valuable. And I've been trying to find a way to put it into words. But it's like, I really resonated when you said talking your little raina through shit. Because that's what I've had to do. Obvious inner child work is so fucking important. But I feel like to get to this place of peace, your inner child kind of meets this person who's taken care of them, their whole life. And there's this synergy of the old me and the new me. And we're taking care of each other, you know? Yeah, yeah. That shit I'm trying to get out there, like, yo, we got it. You got to love yourself, like, and it's not just positivity, guys, like it's legit and it's possible. I remember when I first started following you, I also followed Erica Fittlove and she said, you can't hate yourself better or whatever. And I was like, I got to try, bitch, because love for myself is really not happening any time. And I remember that sinking feeling. And I heard someone like a therapist say the other day, like, quit fucking telling people they got to love themselves first, because they're going to turn me right off. And I was like, word, because that, when someone would say that to me, I would be like, that's cute, I mean. Yeah, yeah, it's cute, but also like, what does that mean? You know what I mean? I think that's where people turn it off. And it's like, I agree. And I've, you know, been in that state where I'm like, I had to, even I'm like, I had to love myself first. And I think people hear that and they're like, cool, but like, where do I start? And how does that look? And it looks different for every single person. So I don't know, I've just been in this space of, I'm just trying, regardless of who sees it, to like, embody who I want to be, and who I am, and who that future version of myself is. And that vision that I have, who is she? And how does she show up? And how does she carry herself? And she is me and I am her, but this is of our life. You know what I mean? Right. Yeah, I would love to touch on, that was very manifesting. So I would love to touch on that a little bit, if you're not. Because I see that your receipts are for writing, but also for manifesting. And I've gotten super into manifesting. Even my husband, who's like, I love you, Brian, but he's a square, right? Like, totally not into any of the shit that I'm into. Never have been like, but he's so funny. It wouldn't be working though, if he was. Oh, absolutely. And everyone needs a good Aquarius man. If you are crazy, you need an Aquarius man because they're fucking quiet and they are stoic until they listen to your podcast and then they change. Thank you, Brian. And then they fucking make you so brave because they think so outside the bar. You know what I mean? I do know what you mean, I'm always like, can I just interrupt and share? Like, I'm an Aquarius and I've always like, I've never met anybody else that's like an Aquarius. I've always kind of been this like, they're Aquarius, they're like off in their own little world. The man I started dating in April is an Aquarius. I knew it. And so I just, I literally heard, and I like have views, but I'm like, that's exactly, it was exactly what I needed. I'm telling you that if you are manic at all, his presence, he is so fucking consistent and like, he does, you know, he may be a little forgetful 'cause he's got all three air signs in his big three. Okay, I knew you were a fucking air sign. But, you know, he's forgetful and shit, but that's nothing compared to he shows up as somebody who fucking love the shit out of me every day. And I like kind of cried to him the other day because I was like, honey, you don't love me any more than you did 15 years ago. And all of the sudden, I feel all of the fucking love. Like, thank you for waiting. - Thank you for seeing in me what I didn't see because it's so good now. Like, it's never been like, well, no, actually, it was pretty bad. They're for me as I bet. I think maybe I'm not saying you're bad. I'm just saying maybe you're not good for me, you know, like. - One of those, yeah. - Yeah, because I mean, I'm emotionally unavailable, but so was he like, stoic just fuck, you know? But then when I learned about myself and he started listening to my podcast, he could hear it from a very non-emotional play. I wasn't criticizing him. He was hearing what I needed and hearing stories from childhood that I maybe hadn't shared with him yet. Or, I mean, to be fair, I did write a fucking book that he did not read. So, you know, couldn't have heard those stories. I'm just giving him a hard time 'cause he listened to all the episodes. But yeah, it's crazy when you like finally actually start to feel fucking love for yourself, you're able, and I'm not viewing the world during my wounding. I am observing so much more than I am feeling now in terms of my reactions to the world. - Yeah. - And yeah, dude, everybody put in, got an app. You got to try to search by Aquarius male. Now, Aquarius female is an open life. That can be a grab bag, you know? 'Cause air sign women, we are a little shifty, a little dodgy. - Oh, wow. - But, you know, it's been really good to find that love for myself to where I can feel that from everyone now. I mean, there was constantly a block of like, well, I mean, I guess truth be told, I was just waiting for people to fuck up so that I had an excuse to cut them off. I mean, and I would have never thought that that was true about me. The way that, well, actually, I guess there must be some part of that that I recognized because I never felt like, like if my friends did a birthday post on Facebook, you know, some people do the most on there and they write like a, you know? I've never felt like they were talking about me. Like, they would say the kind of shit and I'd be like, "Um, are you just being nice?" 'Cause that doesn't feel like me at all. Like, it doesn't feel like you're talking about me. - Well, now I can really like bring in anything like that and to me, that's the flow. That's another opportunity and abundance for me to feel at my greatest because I'm getting to view world through love and compassion and kindness and not, you know, anywhere I can possibly get pissed at somebody to decide they don't belong in my life anymore. - Yeah, yeah. What's your sign? What's your sign? - Oh, baby, I'm a Gemini. - Mm-hmm. - Okay. - But I'm an Aries rising in a Leo moon. So I don't know-- - Well, I'm an Aries rising. I fucking knew it. - I fucking knew it, boy. The plight of the Aries rising, I love it so much, but it's wild. It's a little wild. - We're fiery as a buck. - Quite a cocktail. Quite a cocktail. I'm a cancer moon. - Cancer moon, Aries rising. - Yeah, yep. - Oh, cancer moon. That's kind of, I don't know. The, did that make you meaner? Like, were you like sharp with your tongue? You know what I mean? - Was I a hunter? I still, there's still pieces of me where I'm like, I think that's why writing has helped me so much and journaling is 'cause I can be, I can say whatever the hell I want on my paper. You know what I mean? And it also helps me put a funnel of like, okay, said that, don't have to say that. What do I want to say and how do I want to respond? You know what I mean? - Yeah, yeah. - That piece and writing for sure. But you talk about manifestation and I'm like, I feel, I can see like a trend throughout my entire life where I've probably been really good at it in terms of like making things that are allowing things to happen, I guess, but I would say more recently, like probably since 2020, so like the last four years, I have realized it's been like an aha of how much power we do have in manifestation and manifesting things. And I hate the word 'cause I feel like the word is too, society's used it too much and it's too whatever. - That's a some blue now, yeah. - It is, yeah. But I look back, like it was like 2020, I was in like probably the biggest depression I had ever been in and I got through, I worked through that when I started writing and I started journaling. I have a journal sitting right here, that's why I keep looking over 'cause I'm getting ready, it's anyway. And I started writing and I started writing like, okay, I can't, it's so hard for me to see past tomorrow, I don't even know how am I supposed to create, how am I supposed to work towards anything? My entire life, I've had like milestones that I wanted to work towards and it was more specifically in business. And so in that space, I was like, business doesn't feel good, actually I'm quite resisting a lot of it and I needed something different and I had no idea what that looked like. So I wrote down, I'm like, okay, releasing everything, what do I want life to look like a year from now? And I wrote it as detailed as I could from the energy that I had when I woke up. The first thought in how I felt when I woke up, like so detailed and it was literally like a year later that I opened my journal and was writing and I was like, oh my God, I think I sort of, like I flipped back and I was like, I literally am living the life to a T that I wrote about a year ago. And I've done that every single year and even the vision I have today, like I can kind of, you know, scope out a little bit and be like, oh my God, these are like stair steps that are literally picking me exactly where I wanna be going, you know what I mean? Like man, and even as detailed as deep in my self-love era when I was like, okay, I need laughter, I need all of these things. I wrote out who I also needed in a partner from the way they showed up with me on a daily basis to how they treated me to bike rides to whatever, like how we showed up in the day together. I wrote out exactly who he was. And in, you know, March this year, I matched with somebody on Tinder and we started connecting immediately and he's a pilot and he flew in to Denver to go on a first date with me. And I have a good story. - Dude, I have journaling entries where I'm like, oh my God, this is the person. He is who I am and who I wrote about to a T. Like to a dot the T, dot the I across it, like exactly who I wrote about. And can I like, can I share that? - That's fucking right. - I know. Saturday, he asked me to marry him. - I am like, I am just so like younger since we're crazy. - But younger since we're crazy. - Have you in that beautiful dress? - No, we went to a wedding a couple of weeks ago. Just one of those friends wedding. I know. This literally happened Saturday, so like two days ago. - It's a gorgeous ring to go. - Thank you, thank you. I've been like just sitting on it and like trying to like talk with this hand whenever we talk. - But yeah, I'm like, you shared it. But yeah, I really think about how you, in your last relationship, 'cause you know, I was eight up with that, like everybody else was. You know, I really think about that version of you. And yeah, I think that part of what was captivating about you in that time of your life was your masculine, that you could fuck some shit up and make things happen. And you couldn't receive this at that time 'cause this is like, a query's been, don't fuck around with all that. They're like, you know, and they will very calmly, and quietly and sweetly be like, no. - I remember one situation. Yeah, I remember we got in like, it wasn't even, we've never, if we haven't been like a fight, we haven't like fought. - But you want, if you're not very safe for that. - No, right, and so I remember this one time and I like, I don't even know what I did. I think I like walked, I'm really good in every relationship of like, walking away and I need you to chase after me. And then I need you to apologize. And then I need you to do this. - Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. - I remember like, I came upstairs and then it was like two hours later after I had like, journaled and pouted and doing all my things and I walked down there and he's like, listen, I don't, I don't respond to that, Reina, that version. I don't want that masculine side to come. Like, that's not how, I'm not gonna respond to that. And I'm like, oh, so you mean, I need to stay, he's like, I need you to stay soft. And I need you to like connect to it. Like, and it was just, it was so cool. Just hearing that, like getting permission from him to not have to send us into that. You know what I mean? - Yes. Yeah, because our tent is interesting. - Throughout survival is to shut down in moments of conflict and our shame will pop up. And that's the fastest way for us to push you away is to deal with our own shame. I've, that's something that I've really been preaching to people is that if you are dismissing somebody for any fucking reason, it's because you are dismissing something within yourself that you don't want to feel. And feeling is above all else, feeling. You have to feel. And that's what I'm teaching people in practice is how to actually feel. And it's amazing to watch people transform even after our first session, you know, because what I tell them every time I'm like, listen, I'm not gonna be like any other therapist you've ever fucking met. And that's the words that come out of my mouth. I'm like, I'm gonna talk through the same way I talk to people on my podcast. I'm gonna talk to you the same way. I talk to my 17 year old and almost 22 year old. I'm gonna talk to you exactly how I talk to everyone else. And sometimes I'll try my best to lead you to water. And other times I'm gonna fucking waterboard you with the information and that's just gonna be that. And they're always like, thank you. I need direct, but you know, I feel like everyone I'm, well, I ask the universe, send me the people in alignment. Send me the people that I can help. Send me the people that I can partner with. Send me anyone in alignment with where I'm heading because I am fucking going there. You know, like I am there. - And I am ready. - Yes, yeah, and I am. I'm already who I need to be. Of course I'm still learning with some mindset shifts of you know, how to move forward and do the big shit and all of that. But like I have a couple of really big speaking engagements coming up, I'm really excited about that. I'm trying to do a lot more of that for the like global impact that I'm trying to make. But, you know, a year ago me couldn't even quit my fucking job because I was so scared of myself. And I had a belief that I was afraid of success and I never understood what that meant until I looked myself in the face and said, well, you're afraid that this will be successful and that you won't be good enough to sustain it because I've taken those little comments from people that just chipped away at me my whole life of, you know, you started diet and my grandma was a such a bitch about this, but she'd be like, well, I mean, I just hope you don't give up this time. You know, shit like that. Comments like my whole life to where, you know, it was just enough to keep me small enough in their box. And I had to overcome any of those thoughts when people talk about addressing their limiting beliefs. I did what you're talking about, I listed every quality that I wanted in myself, everything I wanted to be doing and the first thought that came up to limit my ability to do that, I would write it down and it was all the same. Like, I knew I had it in me to start and build anything. I mean, I've survived a shit ton of stuff. So I know, I know I'm strong, I know I can do this, but I didn't know if I had what it took to sustain. You know, it's my self in any way. Because in every situation in the past, it's either gone away or fell apart or I had the same story, same story, same story. - It's crazy. - It's crazy, isn't it? - I'm telling. - Yeah. - Yep. - That's exactly it. - This is what is crazy. I'm learning we literally, Reina, we're all the fucking same. Our issues can look different and especially when we are like with the people closest to us, the mirror effect has a whole new meaning to me now to where I'm like, if I don't like something in my husband or anyone else around me, I'm like, what is it about me I don't like? Because we don't spend our time thinking about the things we don't like about other people for no fucking reason. So I have to start looking at myself. Stuff that I didn't even think that I thought about myself let alone didn't like about myself. You know, like, what the fuck are you? - Well, I wasn't willing to admit that I'm a messy person. Okay, that was one of the things. And my Aquarius ass husband is a mess. So I was like, God, I hate that he's a slob. Okay, so what does that mean? I hate about me. I'm not messy, so that ain't it. 'Cause I'm the only one who cleans. I didn't think I was messy, you know? And I was like, I'm messy? - Yeah. - I'm looking messy as fuck. - That's me. I'm the problem. - What I'm actually impressed at is that I have to ask for help because I don't want help. I want to be able to do it all by myself. And not have to depend on anyone because that's scary as fuck, you know? Like for the first time at this place in our relationship, I have really like an ability to feel fear. I don't, but to feel fear of losing this relationship. I did that in the beginning, came out really beautifully with my anxious attachment. In fact, in my book, I said that I was pretty sure how to lose a guy in 10 days was written about me because I did every mother fucking thing that that girl did, every fucking thing. I didn't get a plant and call it Fern. But I did have, I called him, I called him muffin right now. What? (laughing) - Imagine a stoic as scary as male. - Okay. - Did he love muffin? Mm-mm, mm-mm. He wanted to run from me because he loved me, so whatever. - Oh, I love it. - You know, or I was just good in bed. Whatever it is, I'm just glad to say. - One of the books. - I did some real stupid shit. You know, like. But then it got to where I was like, oh, well that, yeah, I'm not supposed to be that attached. So I'm not, I was still. But, you know, I was really good at lying to myself. But that's when the more like fearful avoidant popped up is 'cause I was kind of tired of being rejected at that point. And I was like, and I started to pretend and believe that I believed that I didn't give a fuck about losing or anything. And it wasn't until I really started. - But that's what society, I think. Like, expects us. I think that's how, like in my mind, I almost have this like, you know, the story of like, okay, don't text first, don't eat. It's too much, don't share too much. Keep it, don't do that. Don't scare them off. Like this really, and I felt that my entire life through people that I had talked to casually, people that I had dated maybe for a little bit, like my entire life. And he, this Aquarius man is the first person that I feel like has given me permission to be as obsessed as I want to be. And say everything I want to be. And full permission to like, you know what I mean? Like, just like, he'll message if I haven't text an hour and been like, are you okay? And I'm like, I'm fine. He's like, why haven't you touched me? I'm like, I don't, what are you doing? I don't know, like, what do you, you know what I mean? Like we just, we can talk, he's given me permission to like, messages as much as I want a message. And like, talk as much as I want to share as much as I want to share. And just full permission to I think be myself, which is something that I think we kind of shoved down a little bit in the kind of relationships, you know? - Well, and you're right, the dating coaches, I mean, I'm sure that what we were doing in terms of like pushing people away and tamping things down, that's kind of the advice they give. I mean, if we're being real. And so, you know, we was doing what we were supposed to, I mean, we weren't dating by the time I decided, you know, oh, I probably just don't care if something happens to us. And I tried to move in that way too. I just, I wonder because I have felt stifled my whole life. I'm a fucking gym and I love to talk. I love to talk. That's why this is like such a good soul feeding thing for me to do. But I have felt stifled because, you know, I have a hearing loss, so I've always been loud. I've always been told I'm too loud. I've always felt simultaneously too much and not enough at the same time. And I wonder you said that things happen to where you became more afraid to speak. And I wonder if him allowing this and you not feeling too much, you know, and your health communication, if that really provided some healing for you because you are able to get out with him, things that you don't feel safe to get out other places. - Yeah. Yeah, I think I just, it definitely has to an extent where it's like with him, I feel like I can say anything and everything. I still feel this resistance in certain places, specifically like social media. And like I could never, I'd like commend you. I could never do a podcast because I just, he feels like such a safe space, you know what I mean? And I think he's provided me that. And that doesn't feel like a safe space. And so I think it's kind of helped me figure out where I want to be able to share. And he has encouraged, like he thinks, he reads everything I write and is like, he messaged this morning when I took him to the airport being like, you need, you got a lot of writing to do. And I was like, I know, I have a whole lot of writing to do. Like I've got like, he just encourages me in that way, which feels like such a safe space alongside him. You know what I mean? - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. So for me, it's not necessarily the speaking part. Like there is still this resistance to like talking out loud in this space, but writing in this space feels like what I'm supposed to be doing. And so I feel completely supported in staying what I want to say, however I need to say it in that manner. - Yeah. - See, I think I've got something in the opposite version of events just because I've always written, I've always been a writer, I've always connected and really go with people through writing. And so I wrote books and whatever. But I think I felt afraid of myself to speak too much because I was so reactive for so long that I wasn't mean or angry, but it sure looked that way when I was in a constant state of the trigger and you know, black-- - Sure. - You know, 24/7 for so many years that, like I'm just, that's the love I'm giving myself is rest from that. And I created a bubble, you know, I'm working mostly from home on free, you know, I'm just doing freelance shit and I've created the safest space. And I don't even like to like be around other people that much. 'Cause I'm like, let's go back to the bubble. The bubble is home and it's so safe and loving. - Yes. - Let's go back and forth. This isn't working. - Yes. - Yep, I really-- - That's the thing. Back to the bubble. - Yeah. - Okay, I have something else at one. I wanna honor their time and yours. I really thank you for saying yes and I love the conversation and-- - Congratulations, I'm so happy for you. - Thank you. - Oh, beautiful, God. - Thank you. - I love it. I'm glad you told me about it. - Thank you. - This will actually come out Wednesday, so I'll make sure to tag you into all of this. - Awesome. - Okay, thank you, I appreciate it. You also, I'll talk to you soon. - I mean, I'll probably stop you, but it's fine. - Okay, you know what? I'll be around. - Okay. - Bye. (upbeat music) ♪ Emotionally unavailable ♪ - Hey, hey, hey, what do you say? Listen, first and foremost, please make sure that you have provided this podcast with a five-star rating on whichever platform that you are listening. If you want to support the show, please rate, like, and share. Also like, comment, and share on any social media posts that you see for me on Instagram, or Facebook, or TikTok. Please follow the podcast Facebook, emotionally unavailable podcast. You can shop my foot online, store, or schedule a one-on-one with me, emotionallyunavailablepodcast.org. I'm offering what I'm calling a non-traditional counseling, astrology readings, and tarot readings, and self-polishing services. And thank you so much for listening to the emotionally unavailable podcast. (upbeat music) ♪ Emotionally unavailable ♪ - Hey, hope you loved that episode with me and Raina. I know that I did. That was a real dream come true for me. And I know that it's just one of many that I've already had many dreams come true, and I am so excited to see what is next for me. So, hope you loved it. And 'til next time, let's all just keep swimming. (upbeat music) ♪ We are invisible ♪ - I-N-D-E-P-E, and cook.
