So thank you very much for your time and I'll see you in the next video. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Hey everybody. Welcome to the Mukheray podcast. I'm Jurgie. It's a good buddy Nick housemen in the middle of a juice cleanse. Isn't quite sure if he's feeling good or not. It's it's it's all over the place a little bit. We're trying to figure it out. Right. Well, I actually am finished with juice cleanse, but I'm now in the process of slowly and reintroducing foods and eating really clean. And that's that's the part where I got to just maintain the rest of my life. Gluten. No caffeine. No that this is why we're talking about Nick the Mukheray universe is going to make sure that you never drink a Coke for the rest of your life. That wouldn't be a bad thing Jared really, you know, sure. I don't see it happening. I know it just takes one to sips and that's it. It's it's it's a downward spire. I've seen it happen. Oh, I do this every so often. I tell you when I whenever in the very beginning if I haven't said it usually tastes like acid. It really does who wants to drink this, you know, maybe a couple more steps to them back into it, but like for the beginning, it's a remarkable how your taste buds change. I had a tomato. Okay. Let me tell you this. I hadn't had food yet. I had a tomato that was so exquisitely exploding in my mouth of flavor. You really miss that when you don't, you know, have those days in between. I I'm overjoyed. I am supportive of all of this. I speak for everybody else. Very supportive. Thank you. Nick, we have so much to get into including previewing the debate that is supposed to happen the day that people hear this on Tuesday, a reminder, this debate, 9 p.m. Eastern on ABC. We are going to go live immediately afterwards. You need to go to patreon.com slash my Craig podcast, Nick, I cannot stress enough. Everyone who does this walks away saying that they they they feel like they watched actual analysis and reaction as opposed to this talking head circus that the mainstream media gives them. I want people to come hang out with this because I think this is a big moment. I think this is what we do best. And yeah, I just want people there tomorrow night or I guess tonight this is coming out on Tuesday. It's also like I think what people lament most about not being on the patreon side of things. Exactly. So patreon.com slash my Craig podcast. We're going to have the live post debate reaction and analysis show tomorrow night immediately after this thing goes out off the air. We hope you will be there. Rick, we are supposedly on the eve of a debate between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump. We're going to get into what to expect, what what we're looking for, what we think needs to happen within this debate. Before we do though, we need to go ahead and set the table for the state of the race right now, depending upon what poll you look at. And I've seen polls that have ranged from Harris being up eight to nine points, a New York time, Ciena poll just came out that has Trump up one point, which everybody is scratching their heads looking at this thing. It's the first one that we have seen in weeks and weeks and weeks that has Trump on top. There are reasons to question that. It will talk a little bit more about the state of the race, but do you have reactions about where you see it right now? Yeah, I had some interesting conversations maybe we'll talk about later over the weekend. I was in Florida, in fact, an interesting state to be in. And I think that, you know, I was trying to explain to somebody that if you get 4% seems to be in a national poll, the threshold for if you get above that, then all of the electoral culture doesn't really come into play. It's sort of factored into that where you'll be able to come. That is because there is a built-in advantage for Republican candidates because of the electoral college. Yeah. So you can win by 3.2% of the national vote and then still lose the presidency. But once you get to four, it seems like everyone's agreed that you're 90% chance of winning the whole thing, right? You didn't mention that a friend of the great friend of the pod, Nate Silver was saying that. Yeah. Great friend of the pod, Nate Silver. Yeah. I think 100% chance of winning 110%, something like that, whatever he said. But there's no question that you have to look at it in terms of where it started as soon as she took over or where Biden was right when it ended or he ended his presidency campaign to now or was it a few weeks after that? Either way you want to look at that timeframe, there is a surge here. And she is making up ground and she's gaining it a week over a week. So that's what I prefer to look at in terms of momentum. So I think that it feels, you know, if you're in favor of Kamala, that you should feel decent to good over where we've gone over the last four or five weeks. Yeah. There's some stuff here that has been encouraging trajectory wise, although I do want to state for the record that I do think that we're watching and cooling down of the Harris campaign, which was inevitable. You know, after the DNC, there was a bump. There was her first televised interview with CNN. We didn't get a chance to talk about this very much. It didn't go very well. I mean, you know, there were moments and, you know, mostly political sickos are watching this stuff. We analyze it on a deeper level. So we both walked away from it feeling a little about it because there were some real issues with it. That is not Harris's forte. Where Harris really, really excels is either in giving a speech now when she's absolutely engaged and prepared and also on the debate stage, which we'll talk about more in a second. The other things that are encouraging right now about the trajectory of this race, it does appear as if she has a slight lead every poll that I have seen and internal polls within the Democratic Party. They have her ahead in Pennsylvania, not by very much. Michigan is going to be a really big toss up state right now. We've talked about in the past that large part of this has to do with the Democratic Party struggles in that state over the last few years. And also what has happened with the Gaza situation. Georgia feels like it's a toss up state at this point. And recently, the polls have been showing that Texas is in play. That's right, everybody, the Republic of Texas. And one of the reasons for this is because Colin Allred, who is running against Ted Cruz, who's doing incredibly well, I don't know necessarily that he's going to be Cruz. There is a lot of room to make up in that race, but it does feel like these things are moving in that direction. That being said, before we get into the actual debate, this is another one of those moments that is going to define this campaign. Harris is and I set this out when Harris was starting to get the nomination. I said, you have to you have to get the bump from the VP, which happened. You have to get the bump from the convention, which happened. You then need to get a bump from the debate. And this is one of those moments that is going to determine whether or not the cooling off of the Harris campaign, which by the way, is for a variety of reasons. There's going to be a natural cooling, but there's also the fact that like the media has been going after her very hard for a variety of reasons. And on top of that, the campaign has taxed toward the center, unfortunately. This is a very, very big moment at this debate actually comes through. Oh, absolutely. And it's funny because I'm looking through the numbers right now on 538 about Michigan and about Texas to see. The Texas thing, by the way, we've been we've been we've been dooded by this before, Jerry. Oh, we've been told a story about Texas. Demographics are destiny. Don't worry about it. Yeah. And it looks like, right, over the course of several election cycles, it looks like it will turn purple and then blue. People want to think that Florida might turn blue as well. I think that's a sick, sick, sick joke, really, you know, you listen, Florida is not going to go for Harris. That's not going to happen. And however frustrating, like, you know, all read is not down by probably four points. And it's just insurmountable. Cruise is just some. I don't know what it is deal with devil. You know, I don't know something. I can get the deal with donors is what it is. You sign something somewhere and it's so awful. The smell of sulfur when he. Well, whatever deal he signed, it's like the monkey's paw, Nick, like that, that beer that he wears now, like it's, it's, it's a bad situation. He should have made a deal on that part. But I'd argue the beer was a good choice for him, wouldn't you say, for his face? There's not a lot of good choices when you're Ted Cruz. Over the face as much as you can. That's, I think. As a beard man, I appreciate a beard, but this man does not look good with the beard. So either way, and you're right, you can anticipate a bump. I don't know if the bump is going to be as big as maybe a typical bump is in a different ear. And we have to remember that the horse race quality of this is so important to these goddamn publications. That's right. They're able to do whatever they can to make this closer than it really is. If you want to look at the donations and the number of donations, it's like Trump is getting killed in that category that's supposed to measure something, right? Well, it does. It tells you where the enthusiasm is, but unfortunately, going back to 2016, we can't rely on that stuff. Again, he has a built in advantage. We have an extremely divided country. These bases are solidified. We'll talk more about that in a little bit, but this is a moment and to go ahead and set the table, Nick, you have to understand going into this debate. Trump's bar is so low, it's underground. Like, you know, we talk about what happened with the disastrous Biden debate. Trump was not good in that debate. It might have been his best debate performance that he has had, and it was still abysmal. So nothing he's doing going into this is going to necessarily change the race in a major way. Harris, on the other hand, this is a giant proving ground for her. All eyes are on how Harris is going to handle Trump. And I will say, by the way, there is a built in advantage to Harris, which is all she has to do is look better than Joe Biden looked in that past debate. Like, if you go out and you actually like stand your ground with Trump and give like a substantive back and forth, that can actually change things. You can also land a haymaker in this debate and do some real damage to Trump, which we'll talk about in just a second. Yeah, I mean, he got the spin zone. So if she does a little bit better than Biden, then they both get to claim victory, and we get both get to argue about it in the postgame show or post debates thing. But I think she's obviously probably has more pressure to do more and unfairly so, right? It's completely unfair when you're looking at the analysis of how much more they expect out of Kamala Harris to like what I call win this debate. And you know, I'm of the mind that this is her one of her stronger points. This is one of her stronger areas, you know, and we had talked about this before where she'd actually hit Biden, the hardest she got, the best part of our campaign was when she hit Biden. She almost knocked Joe Biden out of the 2020 race. Like that was he was staggering on the ropes going into that debate and she hit him hard. And by the way, hit him rightfully right exactly. He was an architect of those policies. And so she she should be good that we've seen her in the Senate confirmation hearings for the Supreme Court and we had Bill Barr in front of her too. And she really is good about, you know, pressing things. And that is the question. To worry, we're going to see reports of her prep showing that she was going to be above the fray. And she's going to, you know, move on and make sure that her policies are clear and when she wants to get done. But I am of the mind that she needs to call him out on the absolute word salad bullshit that he's going to spew over and over again. And I think, you know, they wanted the mics on so that he could talk over her and then she could say, you see what he's doing. He's talking over me out of the other. But that won't happen, but I still think that he'll be able to get a rise out of him if she can get hit him with, you see what he just said, folks, you know, maybe she'll even use the folks from a Biden's, you know, thumbclature and to say, you know, he's not saying anything and he hasn't been saying anything and he's not up to the task. He shouldn't be in this position. He shouldn't even be on the stage is what she should say. So the to give everybody a little bit of an idea of what's going on pre-debate in terms of preparation. The strategy calls that I've been on, it sounds like the strategy is to go in very, very aggressively and try and provoke Trump to be the, like, you know, sort of unhinged version of Donald Trump. I've heard a strategist cackling about this. They are just absolutely champing at the bit to see her go after Trump in a big, big way. Over in Trump's world, they're terrified. They are really, really worried about who's going to show up at this debate. They understand that Donald Trump has, I know this is going to be shocking, Nick, and I just need you to hold on to your chair. He has a problem with women. I know we're all surprised. They're very worried that he's going to come across as a creep, as an aggressive, you know, violator of space. They have been trying to advise him to prepare for this debate and be what they call quote unquote happy Trump, which is a Trump who's like, you know, actually still a bully and making fun of people and still sort of holding it, but being less aggressive. Here's the thing, Nick. Those two things, they don't work together, like Kamala Harris coming out and being aggressive and provoking Trump is not going to lead to a good circumstance. And Nick, I've been watching their, their past debate performances. And one of the things that I have seen, number one, Harris, the persona that you just brought up with Bill Barr and also with Joe Biden back in 2020, that's where she's most comfortable. Here is the, the prosecutor moment, right, where she is going after the person. We'll say this, Biden didn't defend himself. Bill Barr didn't defend himself. Sessions didn't defend himself. There's, there's an off like kilter off balance part to it. And that's where she's most comfortable. And by the way, Nick, here's something that people need to remember. Trump doesn't get off balance with that. He gets angry and he gets aggressive. And one of the things that Hillary Clinton, and I was watching the debates between him and Clinton, I'm going to keep watching them, Nick, he reacts by getting very personal, by attacking the woman who is coming after him and trying to intimidate them. And I don't know if you remember this, Clinton held her composure largely when, when Trump was doing all the physical sort of thing, but she was off put by it. It made her very uncomfortable. I mean, obviously because it should, none of that should have been allowed and it should have happened. But the question now is how do these two styles interact with each other? And I have to tell you, I expect this to be a really ugly debate. I think that this is going to be a really, really unpleasant, nasty affair. Well, it's good that you use word nasty because that was the, that's how we coined it. It's a nasty woman, I believe, wasn't that, that's the thing that Kamala could do, you know, now I don't believe that it's going to be the same version of that where he gets to move around, right? That member was a little more freeform for the Clinton Trump. This is going to be podiums. Or do we know if it's going to be stuck in the podiums, but that doesn't mean that he's not going to try something. Fair enough because, well, that's what Kamala needs to do. That's what Hillary didn't do. She could have been like pointing to be like, you see what he's doing here? He is, you know, stalking me and like doing some weird stuff behind me, like weird would have been a good word to use there because that was all very awkward. And I think we all could agree that Hillary won that debate. I mean, there was a moment when she kind of like shook her head and laughed or whatever, like it was, couldn't wait to answer because she couldn't believe how bad his answer wasn't she could pull it all apart. But you know, and all those things led to, right, what should have been an insurmountable lead heading into the last week of the race in 2016. So that's the other question here is when, when, if she does win this and there is a bump, like what, what's the, how much bump do you think she's going to get in terms of the polls? Well, it depends on what happens. It really does. She wins. It's decisive. It's ugly. Okay. So I brought up the idea of hitting a haymaker against Trump. Like if she eviscerates him and quite frankly, what people are waiting for and what I'm waiting for to see if it happens, right? Hillary Clinton's biggest hit against him was the euro puppet for Putin. Like that was, that was easily her biggest thing. Joe Biden's was calling him a clown, which was, you know, it sort of got some laughs or whatever, but it also painted him as he is. I keep telling people and I keep advising, you have to call him out for being a little pathetic man. And I have a wild feeling that there are some strategies that are being prepared in the Harris campaign to absolutely eviscerate this guy. The question is whether or not in the back and forth, if it does get bad, like will, you know how this is, it's like playing the sport. You have a plan, you know, like you, you, you've practiced, you're prepared for it. You get out on the court, you get out on the field. All of a sudden things get weird or chippy. Will that plan come to fruition? If that is done, that's a different story. And I will go ahead and bring up one more thing, Nick, which is the wild card and all of this. The framing of this debate by by the ABC moderators. I think we all know exactly where it's going to go. Trump is a known quantity. The media right now is in full revolt against the Harris Waltz campaign. I think a large part of this debate is going to be focused on grilling Harris. I don't think they're going to hold Trump accountable in this thing. I don't think they're going to give it hard to him. And the question is whether or not she'll be able to handle the triangulation of the debate. That is very possible. I guess you should call him a a weird, what was it, a weird clown puppet? No, a weird clown puppet. I would laugh at him and by the way, we know she likes sheep. She finds a lot of things funny and like will laugh like if she laughed at him, I think that would go a really long way. Yeah. And we've seen that too. That definitely works in front of the bully to laugh. But also to, you know, again belittling risks, you know, lowering yourself into the morass of what he was trying to do. I would be, you know, but there's so many things to be able to hit him on and she's got to be able to keep her composure and remember it like in a good order and a good sort of bringing along to build to a crescendo and probably leading to some version of the insurrection and how he led that would be a good one to ultimately hit him on because I feel like, you know, if there's anybody who's undecided at this point right now, they also might be in that camp where they don't necessarily, you know, a lot of Republicans will simply say it was a, it wasn't an insurrection. It was a few people having a good time around the Capitol, right, or whatever they were, you know, tourism and it was worse. But I'm sure there are still some people who are swable on that end who could be like, you know what? Yeah, that was a really horrible thing that they did. It's horrible that he led that and he inspired that and he shouldn't certainly be anywhere near the White House because of that again. Well, and by the way, we can say this very easily when we're sitting in our recording areas and, you know, I just had lunch a little bit ago, I'm feeling good and regulated. We can go back and forth on this. Imagine that you have a historic level bully who, by the way, is a complete and utter misogynist and abuser, right, who is attacking you the entire time. On top of that, you have a media that's going to ask you, and here's the thing, Nick, not only does she have to have a strategy against Trump, she does occasionally have problems answering questions. She can get into a weird space where she just sort of talks and talks and talks. You have to answer for what has happened with immigration, which they will blame her for. And on top of that, you have to do the mental calculation. We're moving towards the center and the right on this, right? Meanwhile, you're going to be asked about Gaza, which, by the way, you have been the vice president of an administration during a wildly unpopular controversial war. So you have to be able to do all of this without giving Trump a possibility, because what's he love to do, Nick? He loves to point out what he sees as the major flaws of his opponent. So as a result, you could have an uneven debate. You give sort of an off-kilter, off-balanced answer. All of a sudden, Trump is just peppering you by saying, "What's she saying, folks? What even was said there?" "Oh, you're so ridiculous, whatever." And then he just goes back to his absolute insane regular stump speech off the top of his head deck. It is a really dangerous environment. But like you brought up, this is one of her major strengths. This is one of the places where she actually does shine. It just so happens that this is a much larger thing. It's the difference between playing high school football and getting on the field for the Super Bowl. Right. And what Trump does is he defines the terms of what she said, but then he's an attacker by lying. Sure. And that's where we have to figure out how to navigate that. Now, I don't know if they're going to do any fact-checking in a real time. No chance. It's all what's the call they need to do, because once that lies out there, he'll say it like the three times within a few sentences, which solidifies it in people's brains, that they know that scientifically, it's done. It's over. They will believe it, and it is really troubling because that's what she almost needs to call them out on as well, is to be able to take a couple of the good choice lies that they all we all know are easily verifiable and really just explain it to them. But you're right about the issue of word salad for her has, it still pops up a little bit. And you have to match it with enough preparation like they've had now. She can avoid that, right? She's gotten better at it as she will avoid it. I have every reason to believe that it won't be like it was in the early part of the administration. And again, if that's the case, and we have her going back and forth with that, her skill set, I find it hard to believe that he'll be able to withstand that, and he should be exposed. I just want to make one final point on this before we sort of put our predictions out there. I find our media repellent. I find their narcissistic obsession with themselves to be disgusting and misplaced and dangerous. Nick, this is one of the reasons why you should do interviews, which they have kept her from doing a bunch of interviews, one because of an antagonistic relationship that is left over from the Biden administration. Biden hated talking to the press and also there was a reason why they didn't want him talking with the press all the time. We've kept Harris from it because of what happened with Biden, but also because they don't want a bunch of word salad videos out there. But that is one of the things that you need to do to prepare for things like this. And that interview with Dana Bash, it was uneven. The beginning of it was really uncomfortable. She did a lot of that on top of that, by the way, they really hammered her and waltz. Like they really, truly did. And they needed more reps. That's one of the things I'm very worried about going into this. So Nick, just put a bow on this preview. What do you expect out of this thing? What do you think needs to happen and what do you think we're actually going to see? So I expect she's going to have throw some haymakers and land a few of them as well. And I feel like she should get a bump in the polls from this. And I feel like maybe if she's at 3.2 or 3.3 right now, and over at 538 overall, the only question is how much at this point with this compressed schedule, maybe it's half a point of a bump, maybe it's somewhere closer to like four, which again, is that threshold that kind of gives her the thing. And I don't know if I made it clear before, but Pennsylvania really is it, as far as I'm concerned. Pennsylvania. It's a big one. And by the way, they have the advantage of having Josh Shapiro there right now, who is an incredible boss of a machine there. So I think that's going to help with the question. I think you're right. What I expect is if this thing goes perfectly, I think we'll walk away with one to two things that she says to him that resonate. You know what I mean? Like actual blows that actually paint him for who he is and put him in his place. The worst case scenario, Nick, and by the way, just, and this is a sports analogy, I hope people can follow it. There are games that you watch sometime where a more talented team will play a less talented team and they junk it up. You know what I mean? Like it's just an ugly game because the skill gets mired in the ugliness. You know what I mean? And like I, one of the most memorable versions of this, people might not remember it was when Duke played Butler in the, in the championship game for the NCAA tournament. And it was one of the ugliest basketball games you will ever watch. And it helped Butler, the underdog, like stay in the game with Duke. If this thing turns into a rock fight, if this thing turns into a mud wrestling contest, that is not good. You know what I mean? There needs to be something that can occasionally get a little bit ugly and put Trump in his place, while also making sure that the main points get, get put. She has to convince people that she's up for this job. And this is one of the major ways that she does that. If this turns into, again, a rock fight, that I think is the worst case scenario. Fair enough, but let's not avoid the result of that Duke Butler game, which was that Duke did win. They're better team one. Yeah, three inches off on a hopeful court or a half court shot, but, you know, they did win. And so that's important as well. Maybe we don't remember, you know, now that it was like that, like you described. But either way, we will probably still remember what the result and how it went down by November when we have to vote soon. So yes, it's impaired that she really does as well as she possibly can. Well, we need to talk a little bit about Donald Trump as we go into this debate. And Nick, one thing that we've needed to address is that in the Hush Money trial, Trump's sentencing was delayed until after the election. It's incredible, Nick. It's almost like the system is rigged to help wealthy white men. I, for one, I welcome it the pageantry of life. Listen, Judge Mertin just wanted to make sure that he didn't appear clear. Sure. That's all. That's all. I kind of leave it, do you? I kind of leave it a little bit. Yeah, this man is not going to jail. Well, it is not going to happen. He's not going to face further prosecution. Like this thing is so baked in. And I just want to tell people stop thinking that these institutions that helped create Trump are somehow or another going to take care of him. It is done. Stop spending your money with people who tell you differently. It's, it's, it's done. It's cooked. Well, here's the thing. You know, even if Trump wins in early part of November, the sentencing happens during Biden while he's still in office where in theory, things can kind of keep going and he'll, he could be put in prison before January, whatever he would take office. So, you know, it still could happen in that same way, that timeline. Do you, do you think that a judge in the United States of America is going to order a president elect to prison? Okay. So let's do that. He wins and he sentenced and he has to go to prison. No. No. You really need to be like, ah, never mind. Yes. Gosh, I would love to see that. I don't know. I don't know. I guess, I don't know. I kind of think that they, you know, the laws of law, they probably have to say, you know, What are you talking about the laws? The law. Parting himself. I don't know. The law. The law. Come on. How are we all equal in the eyes of justice in the United States? Sure. Now you need to think that. You think so? Yes. Wow. Okay. I, I, when it happened, and here's the thing, Nick, I, I tell people all the time that this stuff's going to happen and then it happens. I'm just like, what the hell like, it's just incredible watching it happen. Then on top of it, Nick, he's even gone further. He's becoming more and more radical. He's now said, quote, those involved in unscrupulous behavior will be sought and caught and prosecuted at all levels. He has personally threatened Harris's donors. He then is advocating to change the 25th amendment in order to punish and impeach anyone who helped a quote unquote incapacitated president. Like this stuff, Nick, is just increasing over time and it's only going to get worse. Well, did you sense of that 20th amendment thing is all projection because it really should have been Pence because we know, I mean, I guess we don't know exactly, but there were definitely some health issues that were going on during Trump's presidency that we don't know about all sorts of weird shit and plus mental health issues as well, just for the record. Yeah. And so it was like, Pence could have easily invoked the 25th. They talked about it. We've already had reporting about it that they, that was part of the conversation. So it's so interesting that he brings that up because that way he was a subject to that. So he wants to go back and arrest people who were cheating in the 2020 election. So that was folded into that thing as well, which is really troubling because we know that there wasn't any cheating in the 2020 election. So all things are on the table here and it really, it's less that he says it's the actual response of his followers to that that is concerning. There isn't a rejection of him for this. There isn't any kind of notion that this is not democratic and this is the threat to our democracy itself. I suppose there is some cheering of this. Well, I want to say something because this is unfortunately what I do. I'm not in favor of people helping an incapacitated president hide the fact that they're incapacitated. I'm not a fan of that. I also think that what the Biden administration did was wrong. I actually think the way that they hid him from the public and tried to hide sort of his condition. I said this before, it's wrong. I still have a problem with the fact that Joe Biden didn't walk away from the presidency. I think he probably should have. I that that's what I saw. That's what I felt. That's what I've looked at. This however, Nick is literally Trump telegraphing the fact that they are coming up with plans to prosecute Kamala Harris. This is his locker up way of getting into this. And on top of that, I don't doubt that he'll prosecute her donors and harass them and use the power of the presidency against them. Also, by the way, the Supreme Court has said he can do whatever in the hell he wants as long as they support it. So I do see this, not just as the rantings of a madman. I see this as an actual telegraphing of what they want to do. And by the way, that also reminds me that with Mershan putting the postponing the sentencing, Trump gets to say, see on innocence, he changed. He takes something that didn't happen and turns it and then people who aren't paying attention closely just listen to him. I think he's innocent because they're trying to make it seem like the hush money payments that's coming down to Daniels was part of his official acts as a president, which is then covered by the Supreme Court did. And so all of these things are just, it's frightening how we've gotten to a point now where a guy can run this way and lie about what everyone wants to lie about and misrepresent everything that comes by. And that is probably the true answer to how he's going to get out of all this stuff is that he built enough of that momentum where like, yes, there's pressure, like they can't do anything. I mean, part of it, I'm surprised, Mershan could be scared for his life, you know, in doing all these things. And that's another part because once you get another side of Trump, he will sick his followers on you and it changes your life probably for a long time. Yeah, it's the inherent terrorism of authoritarianism, right? You feel all the pressure on it and it goes from there. Speaking of Trump unraveling, we often talk about articles on this show that expose like how corrupt and absolutely useless our media is. As a change, I would like to take a look at an article that is pretty good. Actual friend of the show, Parker Maloy, published an article in the New Republic called How the Media Sanitizes Trump's Insanity. This article gets into the actual problem, which is Donald Trump can say whatever bullshit comes into his mind, it can make absolutely no sense. And then on the other side of it, the media goes ahead and like edits it and sort of truncates it and turns it into something that makes sense. As an example of this before we get into the article, this is a really, really important clip of Trump answering a question about childcare that has gained a little bit of resonance because quite frankly, it's one of the most like absurd answers to a question I've ever heard but it is also par for course with Trump and we can listen to this for a minute. If you win in November, can you commit to prioritizing legislation to make childcare affordable and if so, what specific piece of legislation will you advance? Well, I would do that and we're sitting down, you know, I was somebody, we had Senator Marco Rubio and my daughter Ivanka was so impactful on that issue, it's a very important issue. But I think when you talk about the kind of numbers that I'm talking about that because childcare and childcare couldn't, you know, there's something you have to have it in this country, you have to have it. But when you talk about those numbers compared to the kind of numbers that I'm talking about by taxing foreign nations at levels that they're not used to but they'll get used to it very quickly and it's not going to stop them from doing business with us but they'll have a very substantial tax when they send product into our country. Those numbers are so much bigger than any numbers that we're talking about including childcare that it's going to take care. We're going to have, I look forward to having no deficits within a fairly short period of time coupled with the reductions that I told you about on waste and fraud and all of the other things that are going on in our country because I have to stay with childcare. I want to stay with childcare but those numbers are small relative to the kind of economic numbers that I'm talking about including growth but growth also headed up by what the plan is that I just that I just told you about. We're going to be taking in trillions of dollars and as much as childcare is talked about as being expensive, it's relatively speaking not very expensive compared to the kind of numbers we'll be taking. We're going to make this into an incredible country that can afford to take care of its people and then we'll worry about the rest of the world. Let's help other people but we're going to take care of our country first. This is about America first, it's about make America great again, we have to do it because right now I can't stop, I can't hear anymore. Mr. Trump what you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I've ever heard at no point in your rambling incoherent response where you've been close to anything that could be considered a rational thought, everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points and may God have mercy on yourself. Yeah, that's a pretty good response. I've watched this clip Nick, I know that people know this but I regularly microwave my brain with this bullshit and authoritarianism and right wing nonsense, man. It put it in the time capsule, dig it up later, try and explain to people what it was like living in 2024, that is a perfect, perfect explanation. And it's what's going to happen in the debate, they're going to ask him a substantive question about policy and he's going to answer it. And if you need to like the babble fish that you put in your ear and they can translate anything right from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, if you needed one of those, I mean what he was probably trying to say was that with tariffs, which we can get into because he doesn't understand tariffs, they're going to bring so much more money into the government that they'll be able to use, it's a very small part that you need to actually fund child care, we'll use some of that and that'll cover child care. But he couldn't get anywhere close to saying that and yet that doesn't even cover the thing because that's not a policy, right, getting more money as the government is not a policy, you now need to explain how you're going to enact something that people might not want on your party and figure out how to shape that, how much, the percentage, what it will help, you know, who will help all these different things. It was the kind of question like I don't even understand why the economic club of New York had him, I don't know why his handlers allowed him to appear before these guys because he knew that these are going to be really important questions. Did you see the results, the response to people who were there and these are all economists, I think that they were pissed, they were pissed that they had to sit there and listen to the shit. Well, and before we get into Parker's analysis of this, I want to point out why this happens, Nick. It happens because Donald Trump doesn't give a shit about child care at all, like he's never thought about it. And what happens, Rick, at any given point, if he is asked a question about something, he doesn't give a shit about it. And most things he doesn't give a shit about, all he cares about is his own personal and enrichment and empowerment. That's it. Everything else, like it's this insane amount of privilege that this person can go out in front of you. And by the way, Nick, if I went in front of this group or you went in front of this group, we would study. You know what I mean? We would prep really, really hard, probably lose sleep over it before I do a public appearance. But I make sure that I am prepared because I want it to reflect how I care about something. Donald Trump doesn't prepare because he's never had to, and he doesn't need to. And part of the reason is what Parker calls sane washing. And here's from the New Republic article. This sane washing of Trump's statements isn't just poor journalism. It's a form of misinformation that poses a threat to democracy. By continually reframing Trump's incoherent, often dangerous rhetoric as conventional political discourse, major news outlets are failing in their duty to inform the public and are instead providing cover for increasingly erratic behavior from a former and potentially future president. Voters who rely on traditional news sources are presented with a version of Trump that bears little resemblance to reality. They see a former president who, while controversial, appears to operate within the bounds of normal political discourse. Or, at worst, is breaking with it in some kind of refreshing manner. You can see this at work in a recent times piece occasion by Trump's amplifications of social media posts alleging that Harris owed her career to the provision of blow jobs. Quote, "Though he has a history of making crass insults about his opponents, the repost signal Mr. Trump's willingness to continue to shatter long-standing norms of political speech. Meanwhile, those who seek out primary sources encounter a starkly different figure, one prone to conspiracy theories, personal attacks, and extreme rhetoric." And I think what Parker is bringing up here is very important. Which is, I think our media feels like in order to be objective, that they have to treat this like it's normal, they can't just say, "Hey, crazy man said crazy things." And in the process, Americans who are working harder than ever before have less free time, and by the way, or turned off by politics in general, basically without like, submersing themselves in this, they are being given a version of Trump that is incredibly beneficial to him and also does what Parker brought up, which is sane washing Trump as a whole. I mean, I suppose in the journalistic ethics or whatever or printing that you have, you're not supposed to be editorializing in the reporting, right? But wait, this is the same article she wrote years ago. And this is the same pod that we had to go, right? Like this isn't anything new. We were yelling about this in 2016 when the New York Times was doing this bullshit. And so, you know, and back then, they dipped their toe a little bit, remember they wouldn't call them a liar for a long, long time. You know, and finally like our, you know, dance around it, but like kind of the least imply that he's lying about a lot of the shit. But it really is an interesting talk of a war where the future of our journalistic endeavors are going to end up reflecting like how they responded to this and how we need to respond better to these things and call them out on these things. But, right, I think it's kind of gross when what they need to do is embed the video of what he really said in these articles, and then you can at least click on it and see it because you're right, what the whitewashing evidence, what she's going to say in Washington is insane. Like they literally cut out for 80% of what he said to get to some weird version. Just like I did. By the way, did you see me? I just did it. I told you what he really meant about how he's going to fund childcare, right? You did. Okay. There was something plausible there. And I want to point something out, Nick, what you're doing is you're fighting against cognitive dissonance, right? Like we have a natural desire to make sense of the nonsensical. Something happens that isn't quite explainable. Our brain does a thing that automatically tries to put it in some kind of an order. This is one of the reasons why we have magical thinking, right? We come to believe in like, you know, whether it's spirits or evil things or, you know, ghosts that do things. Like we try really hard to make sense of the things that don't make sense. And it just so happens that political discourse works this way as well. Donald Trump was the 45th president of the United States of America. It never should have happened, right? It was an indictment of our entire system. It showed a deep, deep sickness that wasn't being taken care of. You can either look at what that sickness is and you have to change everything about how you feel about the world and how politics and culture work, or you go ahead and make him more normal. And that's where we are. One of the main political parties has put him up for the third time for president of the United States of America. Tens of millions of Americans support this guy and see him as like a hero in a messiah. You have to figure out a way to make that work. And unfortunately, our media and our journalists have not been trained how to deal with this stuff. And the end result is absolutely disastrous. What do you think about this take? They figured Hillary was going to beat him and certainly look that way up until the last week of the race. And so they probably did what they did. They covered. They recognized, well, it's not really how we should be doing it, but he'll be gone after that. And then Comey fucks the whole thing up. I mean, I don't know if there's any other way to. Well, that's part of it. Sure. Yeah. Well, you know, and then he wins, right? And they're screwed because they had sort of done this deal where like, well, we'll just put it off and over deal with a he'll be gone. And then it just exploded because then he was president. So I kind of feel like that was what they were thinking in a way, you know, and almost in the Ruth Bader Ginsburg thing, I'm just going to hold on because I want a woman to appoint me to the Supreme Court, or, you know, to replace me to the Supreme Court. And instead, you know, it ends up being shortsighted, sadly. And this is the same kind of thing. Well, just sort of deal, he'll go away or he'll lose and then, you know, then he wins. And then once he wins, it's now, it's solidified and then they're not going to be able to get out of this. And now the people that are supporting him, like, I guess my question would then be is the people that you're describing, the millions and tens and millions of the people who are going to vote for him, was that what were those votes solidified by the way the media was covering him? I think what ended up happening, and by the way, what you just brought up, right? The 2016 election, which is always going to be like something that we need to consider, I would, I would argue, and I think you would agree with me, one of the reasons we started this podcast, one of the reasons why I do the work that I do is because what I thought the world was before November 2016, I recognized I was wrong. And so we've dedicated ourselves, in part, to figuring out what actually happened and where all this came from, right? That takes a lot of work, like that, that is, I can, I can vouch for it, like a few books after the 2016 election, like changing my entire life and myself, like that takes so much damn work, Nick, and I'm sure you feel it. I'm sure the people who listen to the podcast feel it. What we're talking about with what the media was doing and what it did is that it allowed a certain section of Republicans to go ahead and shove the cognitive dissonance out. There are millions of Republicans who, back in 2016, were absolutely repulsed by Donald Trump, but they needed to make the decision to vote for him for power, right? And for wealth. They were given everything that they could have hoped for, whether it's from Fox News or mainstream media, they were given everything that they needed to go ahead and shut that out and make their choice, which was for power and wealth. And I think it benefited a lot of those people. You know, this might be an interesting time to talk a little about what you're saying there, because I was in Florida and I was at a bot amidst a party. And so we're all hanging out and I'm talking to the grandma who lives in Florida. You know what's interesting is what happens nowadays when you interact with other people you just meet, you do this weird dance, right, where it starts out, we were talking about something innocuous, like I was like, oh yeah, they go to North Carolina, I visited South Carolina and they kind of hear how they describe South Carolina and you hear how I describe it. And you're trying to figure it out. You know, all of a sudden I told her, as I said, you realize what we're doing here, right? And she goes, yeah, we're trying to figure out where we are politically. And it's this weird dance. It's now it wasn't always this way. And you know, you slowly start to realize that like it is a thing and it has become a big wedge between people as well where I talked to this lady who was a lifelong Democrat who not only might not vote for Kamala because she's convinced that Kamala is not a friend to Israel, which seems kind of nonsense to me based on what's their policies. But you know, not only that, but I said, okay, fine, so you'll probably just won't vote, right? She goes, no, my vote, it's a sacred duty that we all have to do when we have the opportunity as citizens. You know, what she was telling me is she wants to vote for Trump, a lifelong Democrat that wants to vote for Trump. And I think that this is where we're at. And this is how the the deep root of the fact, and by the way, you keep talking to where you find out it's a little bit more related to progressivism. She really doesn't like that, you know, so suddenly, oh, okay, now we get to the point here. What's going on? And so you just, you just embarrassed to say you're one of over Trump is what I think we were at. And that's why, by the way, these polls get a little screwy as well, wouldn't you say? I completely agree, because what is happening a lot of the time, and if there's a main thesis of this show, I would say one of the supporting theses of our thesis is that the American voters aren't rational, like they're they're not doing things from a completely scientific looking at things, weighing things or whatever. What you just brought up as a great example, Nick, like the Biden administration has stood by Israel all along to their own detriment and to the detriment of America standing in the world. Like to say that she's no friend of Israel while she is pissing off supporters by continuing to talk about arming Israel, like that doesn't matter. The facts don't matter. You have to go ahead and make the decision that you want to make, and you'll come up with whatever excuses you want along the way. So you're right. A lot of this stuff doesn't actually matter, but the larger discourse and how it sort of changes perceptions. It can move things here and there, but people have to want to move and move along with it. Right. But then you get into the whole notion of like, nobody wants to be wrong and dig in, you know, and it's like, I certainly think that I'm right. I think I've done enough work to understand what's happening with the reality is, and I'm sure that people on the other side feel the same exact way, if not more. And then here we are. And, but then I think the cherry on top here, the piece that results is that the media ends up feeding into that part of it. And I think that is what is most dangerous about it, right? Is that there's no sense of self-reflection on that, on their other side because the media is telling them that it's, it's just totally normal. And by the way, the media then reacts by doubling and tripling down because they don't like being criticized, right? Because they're very insecure about themselves. By the way, Nick, I want to touch on this. It's from the same thing that we're talking about. It's just kind of on the other side. There was news this weekend that former vice president Dick Cheney was endorsing Kamala Harris. I'm going to read the statement. In our nation's 248 year history, there's never been an individual who was a greater threat to our republic than Donald Trump. He tried to steal the last election using lies and violence to keep himself in power after the voters had rejected him. He can never be trusted with power again. As citizens, we each have a duty to put country above partisanship to defend our constitution. That is why I will be casting my vote for vice president Kamala Harris. Now this was greeted with celebration by many supporters of Kamala Harris. I hate it. I couldn't hate it more. It pisses me off. And by the way, I even have parts of this statement that I want to rebuke. But this is another thing, Nick. It is the idea that this endorsement and an endorsement by Liz Cheney or Adam Kinsinger or whatever it is, that somehow or another, this is going to convince wayward republicans that it's okay to vote for Kamala Harris, which is, by the way, its own convenient fantasy. Oh, I don't know. Well, here's the thing. We've already seen a bit of a thawing out of a neocons moving over to Kamala anyway, right? Does that not bother you for the record? Well, no. Well, listen, by any needs necessary to get those votes in those certain states, I'm all for, right? And if you got those neocons or those moderate republicans, those normal, you know, people on the Republican Party, if that fever is starting to break, that would have to be a bad news for Trump, right? It would have to be because that's what was sort of propping them up because we know that the real diehard MAGA people represent a pretty small fraction of the country. But it was all the other people who felt like, you know, they had to vote for the Republicans because that was what I was in my whole life, fiscal responsibility, bullshit. Like those are the ones it looks like, you know, I don't think you can deny that, right? It looks like there's a bit of a thawing of that fever and those grew from that group. And I think that has to be a good thing for the polls. I disagree. I don't think there's a thought. No, part on the disagree. The polls. There aren't a lot of people who are the polls are different thing altogether because we don't even actually know where the polls are at this point. The thawing is what I disagree with. And here's first things first, Nick, this guy can go straight to hell. Dick Cheney is one of the most destructive human beings of not just the past 20 years, Nick. Going back into the 1970s, if you want to understand how we've arrived at this point, the work done by people like Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld has fucked this country right up. Like he's one of the main proponents of trickle down economics and eventually the Ronald Reagan presidency that put us on this path. Also, sir, how dare you talk about someone stealing an election after you've been rebuked by the voters need. I remind people that this asshole and his army of sycophants literally stole the 2000 election, literally stole it. So if people want to tell me they want to defend democracy by bringing a warmonger and a person who literally stole an election on board, good luck to everybody. I would make this argument. First things first, I would ask the question, why does Dick Cheney feel comfortable endorsing Kamala Harris? Is it out of the good? Is it out of the good of his rotten heart? He's probably offering what covered with his daughter. Well, he's helping his daughter for sure, but there is a group of Republicans who are pissed off that the Republican Party that they use to control has evolved into something else and they don't have power anymore. That involves Dick Cheney. It involves Bill Crystal, Steve Schmidt, Rick Wilson. The list goes on and on and on and on, right? They want to get past Trump for what, Nick? Why do they want to get past Trump? Yeah, they want that power back. They want that power back, right? And by the way, the Democratic Party has grown its coalition without necessarily growing its electoral viability, but it has grown that coalition to now include neoconservatives. And that should lead to questions because, while I'm being honest, Kamala Harris' acceptance speech at the DNC had neoconservative elements to it because in order to go to the "center" now, you have to go to the right. You have to talk about the most lethal killing machine that has ever existed and also American greatness. That is spreading democracy through American power. That is neoconservativeism, period. So the question now is, why are people getting so excited about this? We were all opposed to George W. Bush and Dick Cheney in the past, so what has changed? Is it that the Overton window has moved and the center of power and ideology has changed in this country, is it that the people who opposed them back in the early 2000s, maybe they've gotten older and more conservative but don't want to admit that fact? Like there's all kinds of different things that are taking place here. I, for one, greet this as seeing one of the horsemen of the apocalypse coming over the horizon. That's how I greet Dick Cheney's endorsement. I mean, you know, isn't it possible, I feel like I'm in the uncomfortable time, isn't it possible, Jerry, that they just recognize Trump as a danger to democracy and they have to vote accordingly. So you're telling me that you're going to believe that Dick Cheney is doing something selfless and heroic without any sort of a bent to it? The same guy who was put in charge of picking George W. Bush's running mate and came to him and said, "There's one person and that one person is me." Right now, and who is not going to ever be back in power and is done and is retired and all that stuff too, doesn't have much stake at this at this point. So he grew up, he woke up one day like the Grinch in his heart grew three sizes. Well, and maybe they'll make no mistake, Jared, would it be okay if he like sat on a tack before he got sent to hell? I want something really kind of painful to happen to him before that said, okay, that's how I mean, listen, I want him to go, you know, down there and suffer for a turn. He needs to go to the Hague. Okay. So, but, okay, him and George W. Bush should be in opposite cells from each other for the rest of their lives. Right. They killed it. Millions, Nick. They killed millions of people. Right. And because Bush won't endorse Kamala and, but he wasn't invited to the RNC and he didn't speak any of that stuff. And yet he'll still shill for other down ballot Republicans. Would you have invited him to the Bob Mitzvah that you went to this weekend? W now. No. And by the way, I saw and one of the things I'm pissed off about Nick is I said some stuff about this on Twitter because it pissed me off as somebody who grew up in the Iraq war era knows what monsters these people are. Not only was the pushback disturbing to me, Nick, watching the rehabilitation of George to be pushed, he's such a simple country boy. He didn't know what was going on. He didn't know anything about power, Dick Cheney and these other guys took advantage. Are you kidding me? Like that's literally this. It goes back to what we were talking about with the cognitive dissonance. You now have to tell yourself that story. You have to go ahead and rehabilitate these war criminals and now bring them into a coalition of the willing. What are we doing here? I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I know. I think, you know, not that we can have to end on a happy note, but you know, that seems like a good rant to end the show on that you think I'm going to I'm going to go get mad is what I'm going to do. I've been mad about this for days, and Dick, Dick Cheney, Richard Cheney, who helped create the modern Republican Party. But here we are. All right, everybody. Well, again, maybe he maybe he's just a guy who has had enough of Trump just wants the wants democracy back. I would sleep so much better if I even came close to believing that I would sleep so much better if I even came close to believing that. I would I would live such a happier life if I could somehow or another square that circle in my in my mind. Oh, my God. I know my reminder immediately after the debate, if it's held, we still don't know. Then come on now. You think it's happening? It's happening. We know people are going to watch in my house, but we're going to have a party. We're going to watch it. It's going to be a Smackdown. It's going to be good. I will say, Nick, that just brought up. You saying people are going to watch it in my house. It reminds me back in 2004, I gathered with a bunch of friends who hated George W. Bush to watch Carrie and Bush and like, you know, what's the name of that? That watching party, Nick, that was a tough watching part. Yeah. I mean, 2000 election, whether they're a tough watch party, too, which that's sure people have. That was not a fun time either, but immediately after the debate, we are going to go live with our reaction, our analysis, our judgments, everything that we saw from it. Go to patreon.com/muckeringpodcast and we'll join in on all of the fun, putting quotes around that. I hope to see you there. In the meantime, you can find Nick at Can You Hear Me? Yes, I'm A.J. Bye, Sykeson. Be safe. - Be safe. (dramatic music)
