One more podcast to compete against the "Hock Toa Girls" got her own podcast now. Ah, shit. She's doing an album a week format? [laughs] "You know what really makes this man? He's wasting money on CDs with only one or two good songs." "Yeah. Tell him about punk!" [music] What's up, posers? Welcome to "Punk Lotto Pod." I'm your host, Justin Hensley. I'm your other co-host, Dylan Hensley. And this is the show where we choose one year at random and select one punk, hardcore emo or punk adjacent album from this year to discuss. If you head over to patreon.com/punklotopod you get access to all of our weekly bonus audio for $1. And last week we did a modern rock charts dive, where we go through the Billboard modern rock charts for the week of September 1st, 2001, to correspond with this week's episode. Lots of new metal, butt rock, acoustic guitars with hip-hop beats, and what else? "Jimmy World." [laughs] One good song. Yeah, there's some blink and there's some 41, so there's some pop punk. Yeah, a little bit of that in there. Yeah. That was a fun one. Those go a little long, but I really enjoyed going through those charts and laughing at how bad some of the stuff on there is. Also, on the Patreon, we have a new $5 tier. We made the announcement last week that it was going live, but this is the first week that it's actually live as we're recording it. So, what you get with that is you get a producer credit on the show as well as access to a monthly Zoom/Skype video chat that we are calling the Listening Club. Very similar to a book club. We'll all listen to the same album and we'll all get together on Zoom and we'll discuss it. We have yet to choose an album. We will do one this month. We have to figure out when exactly, but we got a couple of ways for the month is over. And next week we'll give you a date, I think, next week. So, but if you want to get the scoop on what we're talking about earlier, join that Patreon tier, $5. And yeah, get your name said on the show. We'll do that in a few moments. We'll mention our producers. You can also join at the $10 tier where you get to choose the album we devote an entire episode to. We have a couple of those lined up. I think we're going to do those on the other side of our 300th episode. So, we got a few in the can ready to go. So, looking forward to that. Yeah, so this week I was assigned the year 2001 to choose an album from. And I had a hard time deciding. We went through the rate and music charts last week after the end of our recording. And we were like, what do we talk about? I kept going through stuff and just being like, I don't know about that. It was a tough one. I had a hard time deciding. And then eventually did land on the record we are talking about purely just through. It's a good record. We haven't talked about them in a while. Let's do it, you know. Yeah, it was your turn to decide. And I watched you go through the charts. And I kept saying things like, what about that one? What about that one? And then you finally were like, well, what would you pick? So, I kind of picked this one. It was kind of just like of the choices that you were like leaning towards. I was like, I would pick that one. Like, that's probably, that's the one to do. Yeah, to me. That's the most interesting or appealing to me of the choices that you are like half-hearted about. Yeah, I think I was trying to avoid certain types of albums too. I think I was just making, I was putting parameters on my selection, making it a little harder on myself. Because I was like, I want to avoid Christian stuff. Because there was a ton of stuff from 2001 that I would have loved to talk about. But it was too similar in line to what we had just done with what he has led to the episode. And what was the other one we had just done not that long ago? I'm blanking on that. But it was very similar in that vein. So I was like, I wonder something a little different, a little more outside what we've talked about in the past. So it was a little harder to decide for me previously in the year 2001. We have covered back in episode 265 since fields tonight and forever. And then episode 202, we did Frotuses and we washed our weapons in the sea. On our 150th episode, we recreated our lost episode with the Bouncing Souls, how I spent my summer vacation, and the Brownie Circus looking for the summer EP. Then episode 126, we did Yafet Koto. Stickipated synthetic laments for love. We did that with John of the Band Calix. And in episode 77, we did Adam and his package, redefining music, as well as MXPXs, the Renaissance EP, our original format of the show. We did that with good friend Corey. And episode 39, we did Esso Karas' self-titled record, as well as taking back Sunday's self-titled EP. So that was a while ago. You know, we've done a lot. Ah, how many times is that? Six times? So this would be the seventh time, yeah. The Esso Karas record's a false 2001 record, because it actually came out in 1997. But for some reason, Rate Your Music had it listed on both entries, even though it's the same. It's the album just got re-released. So it's a great website, you guys. And let's look at the charts briefly. We have mentioned 2001 in the past, and RateYourMusic.com, according to them, the number one punk album of 2001 is, "Is this it?" by the strokes. Always with the strokes. Yeah. Number two is toxicity by a system of a down, so. Yeah, if you want to hear more system of a down talk, head over to our Patreon, and listen to last week's chart dive episode. Here we go. Number three, Jane Doe by Converge. Absolutely massive record. Now that I'm thinking about it, and you know, I was like, man, I'm having a hard time deciding on what we should talk about. And Jane Doe was right there. Yeah, I see many valid choices. I kind of recall your thought process as why you avoided some of these. We did talk about Jane Doe while you were trying to decide what to talk about. Yeah. I think your point was it's too obvious. Also, it's not your favorite. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe an obvious choice would do better for our listening numbers. So they would probably help if we covered more obvious records. You know, beloved records that lots of people have heard and are familiar with. But we're like, no, I don't want to do that. It is not my favorite Converge record though. Now, I can see the potential pitfalls of talking about a record like Jane Doe, especially as just the two of us where it's really just going to kind of boil down to our personal experiences with the record. And it has the potential of being one of those records that's like, it's a great really monumental record that is kind of hard to actually talk about. I could see us getting a little sort of what I'm looking for. I could see us just kind of running out of gas a little sooner than you would expect on a record like that, especially that style of record. Like that kind of hardcore record is such a like wall of riffs. Like it's just on off, you know, like it's definitely something that is probably more interesting to talk about the context and the history. So it would be a research heavy episode and it would also be probably more fun to do with the guest. Yeah. Yeah. We really need to start integrating more guests into the show. Because it does become a point where we're just like, well, I like it. And that's kind of like where you run out of steam. Yeah. I do tend to find that the not your favorite album tends to produce the more interesting conversation when it's just the two of us, you know? Not that one, but the next. Yeah. There's that potential conversation with that. With Converge, with that record in particular. So, yeah. Other important records that came out this year, I'm going to skip some things here. But the argument by Fugazi, the final Fugazi record, probably the record I'm least familiar with out of Fugazi's discography, I just don't listen to that one that much. And I'd already don't listen to a lot of Fugazi anymore. But yeah, not one that I usually went to. I like that record a lot. That would be one I would consider picking. Yeah. There's enough there to talk about it's the last Fugazi record. It's a good cap to their career. Right. Right. I feel like that's definitely one I would have considered that was pretty high up on if I was picking. Page 99's document number eight came out that year. I considered that one briefly. The problem with that record, though, is I don't know how much I would have to say about the actual music. It's kind of got a similar problem that Jane Doe would have because it's very much like a wall of riffs on that album. It would be more of just like an overall retrospective on Page 99. Eventually, yeah. I would not have picked that one because it's, I think it's their weakest album. The weakest total? Or just from like that little run there? It's the weakest full length. Yeah, I guess there's only like three actual full lengths. Yeah. The split. And then yeah, a bunch of EPs before that and splits. Yeah, I, you know what I'd probably agree with that. I think I like five and seven more than like eight. I don't know that eight is the most popular. I don't know what the consensus is. The rate your music rating is that five is the highest rated, but seven is lower rated than eight. So I don't know what the current Scram's kid opinion and ranking of Page 99 records is. I am not in touch with those people. Do the current Scram's kids even care about Page 99 anymore? I mean, they've been doing some reunion stuff. Yeah. But to me, that feels like that audience is more nostalgic and not so much new kids who came to them. I mean, there's probably people in there who found them after they broke up. Yeah, I don't know. Page 99 are interesting. Definitely one of the more interesting bands from this era. So I feel like there would be a lot to talk about in the band in general. We have some other big records. Some 41's on Killer No Filler and Liquid A2's take off your pants and jacket. We do discuss those briefly on the Patreon as well. I do think we should eventually do a Blink record. Somebody else is going to have to do it. Yeah, I can't do that by myself. It's just going to make people mad. We need a fan. We need a fan. Well, I think it would be easy to find a Blink-182 fan who'd want to come on the show though. I do think that would be very easy. They were a very popular band. Yeah, right. You're the weird ones. Right. Yeah, yeah, right. It's very normal people like Blink-182. We have Thursday's full collapse, which would probably be the Thursday record, but I would also want to my handheld through a Thursday album by a fan. The Metal Core Chronicles is going to have to talk about Seven Angels, Seven Plagues. Eventually, yes. At some point. We will get to Seven Angels, Seven Plagues. I don't know how I'm going to do that series once I get to years that are like very heavy into the genre of like lots of records. Like, am I just going to devote like multiple episodes to the same year? Like, how in-depth do I need to go in that series? Right now, I'm going very in-depth. And it's easy to do because there's like 12 releases in the entire year that are tagged Metal Core. Some of it you're like, that's not Metal Core. You're going to be doing Metal Core Chronicles for years. Once you hit like 2000, it's just going to be like, fuck. I got to listen to 50 Metal Core records this week. Yeah, yeah. Well, we'll see. I mean, maybe we'll start to get cheesy. You need to get, you need to put together a super cut of at the Gates Riffs. Well, it'll take a while before I get to it because the at the Gates riff hadn't been invented yet at the stage I'm at. Yeah, at the Gates, hadn't even figured that riff out yet. We have the very first Rise Against Record, the Unraveling. We have a dashboard conventional record. The places you have come to fear the most is that the first LP? No, Swiss Army Romance. No, Swiss Army is. Yeah, yeah. This is the one with Screaming Infidelities. I did briefly considered United by Fate by Rival Schools. Though- You must not have said it. Yeah, it was when I looked at, but I didn't say it out. Just mainly because I was like, I think we're Walter shriveled out at the moment currently because we had done the quicksand record and the Gorilla Biscuits record. Like within the last year, maybe that quicksand record could have been two years ago for all I remember. But I don't think I have any fresh takes on Walter's music yet. United by Fate, I would say, is the last Walter record we have to do on the show at some point. Right. But I am probably not going to be the one to pick it. Again, we're the weird ones here. Just, yeah, I feel like we need to clarify that more often with our hottest takes. Just like, I know this is unpopular. It's because we were homeschooled. I don't know. Yeah, we weren't around enough people at a young age who listened to punk records for us to kind of join in on the rest. Instead, we're like, you know, just blender headbands. Pretty good, you know. Sorry, Billy. Kitchen strays. One we did discuss already that didn't show up because I just didn't classify it by year. But we did discuss sing loud, sing proud by the dropkick Murphy is on our first St. Patty's a special episode. I just didn't tag that one by the year because it was two different releases that episode. We did talk about doing La Tigre's feminist sweepstakes, but we ultimately were like, it's not the one record, right? Yeah, yeah, it's not the one, unfortunately. If it was first one, that'd be an easy pick. That's a great record. What would you choose if this is up to you? It's not a, I mean, it's not as easy a year to pick as I was making fun of you. I remember looking at the charts and being like, I don't know what I would, it's like, I don't know that I would pick that. I probably would pick what we're talking about or the Fugazi record. Like those are the ones that are like where I'm leaning. There's definitely ones like that Darkest Hour, like if it was the next one, you know? There's a lot of that, almost, but not that one. I mean, I could certainly talk about that Reliant K record just because I had it when I was a kid. So I did push you kind of hard to consider to pick Turn 21 by the Donas. Yeah, I would be interested in doing that one because we almost did the Donas and we had someone pick the record and then we just didn't, it fell through. Yeah, the episode wasn't that record, it was a different one. Yeah, I don't remember why I didn't go with that. That does feel like this one that we should have, we could have done very easily. I don't know, I don't know why I passed on that one, though. Maybe just wasn't feeling it in that exact moment. I would have liked to have done the Aqualine Trio record from here to Affirmary that came out that year. But we just- Stunned. Yeah, Agony and New York-Elyne Trios. I think only one. Have we really only done Agony and Irony? I think so. Yeah, I haven't done a good Aqualine Trio. No, we haven't. We've done the Tuesday record. Oh, yeah, Freewheelen, has we done anything else? I don't think we've done any other Dan records. We've definitely not done any Matt records. Who would? Cuts? Yeah, you want to do a secret record? The Hells or whatever that band was called? Hell, yeah. I was like, what would we do here to shutting up by Superjunk? 'Cause there's so many Superjunk records that even get tagged punk when we go through this website. I think you threw out Identiket by Burning Airlines, and again, that one was just like- It's not the one. Right. There's two Burning Airlines records, and it's clear which one you should talk about. The first one. Yeah. Identiket's great. I mean, not to dismiss it. It's nearly as good as Mission Control. Like, it's probably as good, honestly. It's just Mission Control's the first one. I did think briefly, I was like, we could punish, and I do that boy hits car record. Do like a new metal record. Yeah. 2001 is- What do you think? It's a- I'd say it's a good year in the sense that there's a lot of records that came out that year and a lot of really good stuff. But maybe not a year with a ton of unanimously appreciated albums, besides like the handful of stuff that we talked about at the top. Yeah. It feels more like a deep cut year in general. Well, there's a- I'm like, I would have considered, I think I plugged for this one too. I'd will kill by Oscar. That's what I would probably consider talking about. Yeah. It would be a top contender. It wouldn't do well. It wouldn't perform well, but- But I would like listening to it because it's a good record. Yeah. Uh, yeah, 2001 is fun. Yeah, a lot of good stuff. I think there's a lot of fun stuff. I think there's a lot of interesting stuff. I think that it's a good year. I think that- I think the 2000s in general, this is just our age, I guess. And when we got into punk, but like 2000- I mean, honestly, I think like 98 to 2008 is a great time period to deep dive. Maybe even 97 to like 2009 is kind of a fun time period to deep dive on. Yeah. I do specifically think of like 2008 through what 2013 as like a really special period too, but not- but more for like what we were getting into at the time. And not maybe not so much like what was actually really popular then. Yeah. Which, I don't know, but even still what is popular throughout the 2000s, is interesting to look at too, but maybe more so. It's interesting to look at the trends and how they changed over that time period than it necessarily is like, "Oh, how many post-punk revival records do I actually want to listen to?" Yeah. Not very many. You got any c-power? What else? But it is fun to kind of look at what was popular through that stretch of time because there was a lot of stuff that was really popular. Like their stuff on the early 2000s charts on the punk charts that was on the radio. Like they were hit radio play bands that show up on this punk charts. And then there's like the mid 2000s with the emo stuff being really, really popular. And then that really kind of starts to fade in terms of what's really, really popular in the late 2000s. But even still, you can kind of see where like the next decade kind of starts to take off. So that's still a little interesting. Yeah. I mean, definitely the 2000s were just like the internet just enabled punk and all of its different sub genres to have way wider audiences than they ever would have had before. It is also the decade where album sales start to plummet and not do as well. And the record industry kind of freaking out, especially from a mainstream point of view of like, what do we do now? Well, let's not invest in bands as much anymore. Let's just focus more on individual musicians. But I also think that the late 2000s is where punk goes DIY again as a whole. You know, after the big third wave emo boom, finally dies off. And like the metal core stuff starts to die down. Like everybody pivots to more DIY. That's when you get your death wish hardcore really taking off. That's when like no idea becomes like a big label again. And then like tons of other labels start to pop up around that. Yeah, the 2000s were very, very interesting time period for punk in general and all of its sub genres. Well, before we get into the episode, let us take a moment to thank our sponsors and name names. So these are, I keep saying these, we only have one right now, but so this is our first episode where we're going to name our producers. So right now we want to say thank you so much for being a producer of the show to Dave Brown, host of the podcast One Band Five Songs, as well as the writer of the blog Oklahoma Lefty. Thank you. Thank you so much friend of the show. I actually just guessed it on one band five songs. I believe the episode is up now. And I am donning my cape as the offspring defender again. And discussing the offspring's discography and choosing five songs from it. So really fun episode really enjoyed it. I'm also on the bonus audio that Dave produces doing a discography star rating of the band Iron Chic. So I had to redeem myself from my dubious taste in the offspring by by rating Iron Chic records after that. So so did you listen to the entire offspring discography to make your picks? No, fortunately with that show is you just have to choose five songs. And like I kind of knew what I was going to pick anyway. Like I knew all the records well enough fixed with the exception of like a couple of the late albums. I don't know that well, but I wasn't going to pick anything from those anyway. But yeah, I had an idea pretty quickly of what I wanted to choose. So that's a fun series. Dylan, you should do one. Sure, get in touch, Dave. You know where to find me. But yeah, so if you want to have your name and whatever it is that you produce content wise promoted, yeah, sign up for that Patreon to your $5. And then also join in on the listening club or reach out about some records. So patreon.com/punklotopod. So on to the main event. Alright, 2001 was my year and I selected today's empires tomorrow's ashes by Propagandie. Digget shit, doc. Huddled single file. First of all, fat boys, the prairie skidheads who will never walk a mile. Or more to murder a friend. In this tiny woman's shoes. Drink up with mumble, your abuse, I'm so humbled by it all. And around the same time, I was riding with no hands. Busy windows, you're getting busy behind this blood flex, wish Propagandie's older. Scissor decked out in. A dead Bobo's iron family planning, Roar, Pearl Harbor, and a holocaust spanning 25 years to life. I'm pursuing my country in a road in paradise. And in the shadows of Santa Cruz. She crossed her fingers behind her. Some stats on the band from Portage La Prairie, Manitoba, Canada, now based out of Winnipeg, Canada. Propagandie formed in 1986. This was released February 6th, 2001, on G7, welcoming committee records in Canada and fat records everywhere else in the world. This is the band's third full-length album, and the personnel on this record is Chris Hannah on guitar and vocals, Jourd Samaleski on drums and Todd Kowalski on bass and vocals. And the album was produced by the band as well as Ryan Green, who had produced tons of records on fat wreck and epitaph, including ones by no effects, lag wagon, swinging udders, and J-church. So that particular producer may be responsible for the epithet sound of the 90s. And then in 2001, fat wreck also released albums by Good Riddance, Stuff Me First in the Gimme Gimmies, Rise Against, the MXPX EP that we previously mentioned, and the Mad Caddies. So I said, I chose this record. We really both chose it. Because I mentioned it at the top saying, yeah, we could do that. And then like kept going off and rattling off names. And then when I said, what would you choose? This was one of the records you mentioned. Yeah, so I was like, yeah, we should probably do that. We have previously covered propaganda. We did discuss how to clean everything, their debut album from 1993. We did that with Drew from dry socket. Excellent, man. And I don't remember. Did we really get into our backstory with propaganda in there? We may have, but I don't feel like we probably talked about our pre-existing opinions and knowledge about propaganda. I guess to recap it, for me, it's really brief. I really don't have a lot of depth of experience with propaganda. I had heard them and heard about them a lot as a punk. We're pretty early on, but never really listened to a full record until we did how to clean everything for the show. And like I knew John Kay from the weaker thans was in propaganda. And it's real weird because it doesn't sound right. But yeah, I really didn't have a strong, like I kind of knew the general trajectory of their career, just like from absorbing it from other people talking about them, but not firsthand of like listening to their records. But like, I definitely knew, you know, skate punk, and then more hardcore, and then they get like real thrashy later. The only other anecdotes, I guess I have like the drummer that I played with in Arizona for a while, he was pretty into propaganda, more middle late period, I think. And I remember coming home from Fest one year and seeing somewhat while I was on the plane. I think I maybe only flew to Fest once twice. Did I go to Fest more than once when I lived in Arizona? I think twice. One, you flew into Greenville, South, and I picked you up on the way down. It was just the two of us that year. And then I think you flew in one year in Jacksonville, and we picked you up, you and Corey up at the same time. Yeah. So I remember one of those times coming home from Fest and seeing a guy, the guy like two seats over from me on the plane, like putting his headphones in and putting some music on, on his phone. And he was like, he was playing probably Victory Lab, the last most recent propaganda record, which I thought was really funny because I was coming home from Fest. And I'm like, but this guy did not go to Fest. Oh, it looks like a lawyer. Propaganda probably played that year too. If it was like the newest record at that point, it might have been the album that they were like playing at Fest. I could have seen them and probably didn't. No, yeah, I definitely didn't. Yeah, I've never seen Propaganda live. They played multiple Fests and I've never seen them. I know they play a lot of the newer stuff. Yeah, right now. It's like a tale of two different bands. Yeah, okay. I was gonna say that's real weird to like want to listen to music after the Fest. It's just like, oh, okay. We do listen to music on the way back home, but it's not very loud. It's easy quieter. Okay, so my experience with Propaganda is a little bit more involved than yours. I definitely was introduced to them by our friends who you know, introduced me to so many punk records that I was getting into. I want to say I was given a copy of how to clean everything on a CDR, just an mp3 CD, and our one good friend, he that's like one of the records he played in this car constantly. The joke was always it's just got damaged in the weaker dance over and over in his car, but how to clean everything is another record that was in that rotation and then like the first D4 record. So it was often got played. And so I probably heard how to clean everything first. It would be the first record I would have heard because it was just like, it's a classic of the genre. You know, it's like a major record. It was like a big deal when it came out, critically acclaimed time, and then it kind of became like the record that fake fans like only, and they don't really like anything else, which should I say fake fans, you're not a fan of a band if you only like one record. You're a fan of a record, you're a fan of an album, but you're not a fan of a band. If you don't like more than one, what is the threshold to be considered like, are you a fan of the band? Are you just like like two records they put out? I feel like two is a is pretty good. I think if you go past two records with an artist, it depends on the size of the artist's choreography though. Yeah, right. Like because you could be a fan of two Bruce Springsteen records, maybe even three Bruce Springsteen records. And it's like, are you a Bruce Springsteen fan? Right. Or are you just a fan of those records? But if it's like, yeah, I feel like just using Bruce as the, as the, you need to have your like, your tunnel of love, or I think human touch is a great record kind of takes to be like a real fan. A real one, a deep head. Yeah. I listen to every record that comes out. Yeah. I also don't think you have to listen to every record. No, consider yourself a fan either. No, that's definitely much more of a hardcore fan level. I say if like the band only has three records and you like two of them, you're a fan of the band. Yeah, that's fair. Because having one record that you don't like buy a band of any size, discography is not unusual. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess it just depends on the size of the band. But yeah. So like if say you're a fan of propaganda and you only like the first three, can you say you're a fan of propaganda? Yeah, I think that's fair. Yeah. Even if you like don't like any of the later stuff. Yeah. Yeah. That's fair. Yeah. Especially if there's a distinct, I mean, I don't know. I guess there's like, I think it's fair enough to say you like them. Maybe you wouldn't call yourself a fan, but you like them. You like a certain period of the band. Yeah. Yeah. So I would say I am a fan of this band. I do prefer the first three records because that is the period where they are mostly a punk band. Everything they do after that, they do shift more in a metal inspired direction. Like I would say ultimately the genre is still punk, but it's just like more metal than the earlier records, which are more like skate punk and melodic hardcore. But that makes sense. I've listened to those, some of those later records, maybe not all of them, but I've definitely heard Potemkin city limits and I've definitely heard supported cast. I may have even heard victory lap at least once. So there's a good chance I've heard every record. And even though like I don't go to those records and I don't particularly listen to that style of like metal very often, it's still propaganda. It still sounds like propaganda. So I don't know. What is the? Are you like primarily a first three albums? Do you or do you like Potemkin city? What is to me? It's to me as a very like cursory propaganda, like knowledge person, someone who would not describe themselves as a fan. To me, the impression I get is that like the line is when they start doing the painted album covers. Is Potemkin city limits considered a painted album cover? I guess victory laps, maybe not a painting, but it has the same. It looks like a painting. Potemkin city limits looks more like an illustration. It's not photo and it's not like realistic painting. Potemkin city limits is a weird record. It's kind of them like trying to figure out what they are at that point. It's not full metal yet, but it's also like not what we had from them prior to this. It's where they get thrashy. Yeah, much more crossover influenced. Yeah. Some people really hate it. It looks like it's pretty positively regarded. Actually, if you look at the rate your music scores, but I know people who hate that record too. They're just like, I hate Potemkin city limits. I listened to it a long time ago. I haven't really revisited it in a long time. My memory was I liked it well enough. I don't think I was in the camp of this sucks or even particularly liking it a lot. I would need to revisit those four LPs, the four most recent ones, to really say how much of that stuff I like. My memory of listening to the later records is they're good for what they are. It's just not something I lean towards or go towards very often. If you give the whole discography to me, I'm picking one of the first three. In all reality, I'm probably picking the second and third one before I'm picking the first record. I think how to clean everything is a fun record, but I think it's overhyped. I think it's important for people for when it came out, but I definitely prefer let's talk more rock in today's empires. Yeah, I'm not super rich in my knowledge of propaganda, but I do really like a lot of their music and I like their politics a lot. They're one of those bands where it's just like, maybe I don't love the newest stuff, but I do love what they stand for, and they actually really do stand for a lot of their stuff. Yeah, so like I said, I'm not a, I wouldn't really call myself a propaganda fan. I also don't think that I would say that I had any records by them that I consistently liked based on previous listening. How to clean everything's fine. It definitely has its flaws. It definitely has pretty significant flaws. Honestly, it's not something that I'm going to reach for, but I can, I can appreciate and respect a lot of things about it. And I know it's important and I understand why it's important. It's just like, just not for me. And I have listened to less talk more rock this year, and that was fine, but still just like really didn't connect with much of it. It was just like, this isn't enjoyable enough record to listen to, but I don't feel compelled to come back to it. So that was part of my reason for why I was considering today's empires. I was like, okay, I've heard the first two, propaganda is an important band and they have enough significant records that and they have enough change. I know that they change enough throughout their, just throughout their career that I'm like, okay, there's got to be, there's one more record that I have to give a listen to to really have my opinion of propaganda kind of solidified. I was like, there's, there's one record that I need to hear to decide if I like propaganda at all, or if I'm just like, yeah, they're fine, they're for other people. And that was this one. I figured it was like, today's empires, tomorrow's ashes, probably the one with the most potential to make me a band that I at least, I at least really like one record. So that, that was my thinking for that this record. I also just thought it was perfect for the time period. Oh, yeah, 2001, 2001 hyper political punk band. I'm like, there's going to be some scalding shit on there. Oh, there is. There. Yeah. Well, there's a lot of stuff on this record. Oh, man. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] So let's do a little backstory, I guess, on the band. So they initially formed off of a flyer hanging in a record store that said progressive thrash band looking for basses. So from the beginning, they were trying to be a metal band. So the idea that like they put up a flyer looking, you know, promoting a thrash band and them pivoting to being a thrash band in the future, we should have all seen it, seen it coming. And plus, like these are pretty thrashy records too. They are melodic hardcore, they are skate punk, but they're pretty thrashy for that particular sound. They would wind up signing with Fat Wreck after opening for No FX in California and release their debut album, How to Clean Everything in 1993. And then they followed that up with their second LP, Let's Talk More Rock in 1996. So there are five years between Let's Talk More Rock and today's Empire's Tomorrow's Ashes. During that stretch of time, John K. Samson, the band's bass player, left the band to go form the weaker bands. And one thing that the members of the band have said at the time were, you know, it's better because John didn't really fit, his songs didn't really fit the propaganda sound. And it's pretty evident when you listen to How to Clean Everything in Let's Talk More Rock and you get those John K songs. And it's like, sure is weird to hear anchor lists in the middle of this record, especially after like knowing the weaker bands version so well and then hearing the propaganda version way later. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, John's voice really does not fit the sound of the music in propaganda. It's just so soft, pain, careless. This doesn't, it's not right. Yeah, I think it was, it was fine. It was, it was not like an acrimonious split or anything like that. They did say that like, John hung out in different circles entirely, though, like they didn't have the same friend circles. So it was just like, and he's in our band is kind of like how it felt. And the songs he brought to the band, it's just like, I don't think this fits. So I imagine John was like, I should probably go do my own thing. You know, it was fun being in this band, but let's go do something else. And honestly, sonically, the weaker thans and propaganda couldn't be further from each other, sonically. So in this time, after John leaves, they bring in Todd Kowalski. And Todd was Chris's roommate. And he was also a member of the band I Spy, who they did a split record with and a tour with. And so it was just someone they knew. And so he was asked to join the band as a replacement. And this is also the same time period where they started their own record label, G7, welcoming committee records. And they put out the first weaker thans record on that label. And if you know anything about the band, you may think, Hmm, propaganda, how do they have their own record label? You know, they're very anti capitalist, you know, a band who definitely talks about moving away from a capitalist society. What do they do when starting their own record label? Well, it's because they structured it around participatory economic proposals of Robin Hanell, Hanell, and Michael Albert. And I said, what's that? And so there's a Wikipedia article on participatory economics, often abbreviated as pair con. And it is an economic system based on participatory decision making as the primary economic mechanism for allocation in society. In the system, the say in decision making is proportional to the impact on a person or group of people. Participatory economics is a form of socialist decentralized planned economy involving the collective ownership of the means of production. It is a proposed alternative to contemporary capitalism and centralized planning. Yeah, basically, does this affect you then you have a say in it? Right. Yeah, it's definitely yeah. And so it's just it's a collectivist approach to running a record label and probably a profit split. Yeah, yeah, it's like underlying values that pair con seeks is to implement our equity, solidarity, diversity, workers, self management efficiency defined as accomplishing goals without wasting valued assets and sustainability. And includes workers and consumers, councils, utilizing self managerial methods for decision making balanced job complexes, remuneration based on the individual effort and why decentralized planning. So we're talking about district redistricting or restructuring. It's all too much for my dumb brain to understand. I don't I don't understand economics in general and let alone a radical leftist economics. I know something like that is probably what society needs more than what we are currently existing in, but I think it's just way too hard for people to wrap their head around to really understand. Yeah, it's the that's the thing I go back and forth on, you know, the theory and leftist spaces and like, I'm like, but I think it I think that we need to make theory accessible to people. I think we need to speak it in languages that the average working person can understand to have it really be effective. And I think that's something that the left is really bad up. But there is a big argument for, and I think an argument for that is making theory more accessible doesn't mean that we don't teach theory, like, and that we don't have a theoretical understanding that we shouldn't read theory, like we should read theory because the more we read theory, the smarter we are. And the harder we are to to be infiltrated by non leftists who want to learn catchphrases and undermine the left, like people have talked about the the like the reading work for the reading list for FBI agents that want to investigate leftists is like too large. It's too hard for the boys at Quantico to figure out how to bust up and artist groups. I did find an interesting article that was like an interview they did with the band, I think with Jordan Chris. And one of the questions they were asking was like, so do you participate in a lot of protests in Winnipeg? And one of Chris's responses was, well, I don't think protesting is actually the be all end all of actual progressive leftists, you know, movement, you know, it's good. It's good to do it. It shows, he says it shows solidarity more within the different groups than it does actually cause the real changes. And he's like, the real stuff is like getting into theory and really drilling down into like how this should work and actually like working towards stuff. So that shows you like how leftist this band really is where they're like protests. That's it's ineffective for our long term goals. It's just like, oh, and that's like the thing that like most leftists are like, this is what we have to do. It's like, well, yeah, one of the things we got to protest. It's like, we need to show support. We need to have solidarity. That's the goal of protesting. And yes, there's there's a degree to which protesting can be direct action, but like it's got to move. It's got to move beyond just disruption because it's really easy for cops to respond to protests. If that's the end of your action, you're done. They're going to squash you. Yeah, roll right of you. They're going to kill you and I've seen enough protests. Yeah, yeah, which so and then in that same interview, they're like, yeah, we're not very smart people. And I'm like, you were really smart peoples. Yeah, it's it is hilarious for them to say that I'm looking at the first song on this. I'm looking at the lyrics. I'm like, I can't say the name of this song properly. I'm just going to butcher it if I do. And it's about Bella Gallos from each two more. And rebellion against what against the Indonesian occupation and defecting to Canada. I'm like, what? It kind of makes you wrote a song about that. And you know, like I read all this stuff that like they they talked about in interviews and like read their lyrics. And then I think about when Jeff Rosenstock came after them on Twitter because he talking about merch sales or whatever. And because propaganda was making fun of bands complaining about merch cuts on their sweatshop garments. And then everybody was like, you know what you're talking about? And people would like turned on propaganda for not being leftist enough. And I was like, you you don't even know. What are you doing? Do you not understand what this band's entire ethos and belief system is? It's far more radically left than you could possibly imagine. And you're just like, Hey, he's yeah, he's making fun of Jeff Rosenstock. And it was like, they weren't because he didn't even know what the context of the discussion, even was he was like, he was just on some discourse. Yeah. He's like, he's all the discourse and not the original source of the conversation, which happens all the time on Twitter. But yeah, yeah, it's it's hilarious to be like propaganda, like corporate apologists. Like, what the fuck are you talking about? You were very wrong. And I need you to go read as much as you can about this band. This like propaganda. Yeah, having a collectivist record label of their own versus I think versus guy shouldn't take money from band guy who doesn't just choose to not play live nation venues. I don't know, man, just do a week at a collectivist DIY spot. That's your tour. I don't know. This is why the left will never gain any true traction in this country, because we all attack each other. And it's like, yeah, you're all missing the point. I like the party fucking hard. I like my rockin' roll the same. Don't give a fuck if I burn out, don't give a fuck if I fade away. Back to the melody with me. Before I'm forced to face the rap of a well-defined public, who live vicariously through, tortured out of scholars' rights for pretty much a problem. Back to the voting got go. What's that like to a lucky hand turned out to be a live grenade? Oh, my God. Oh, shit. So, six years between record or five years between records, and one of the big reasons for it was lots of different reasons for why this record kept getting delayed. So, they had tended to record the record much earlier than they did, but then their practice space wound up getting flooded. Then, like right before they go to record, Chris and Todd both lost their voices. I'm assuming based on touring and probably getting sick. Then, George broke his foot playing hockey, which is like the most Canadian thing. And then shoot, I broke my foot. And then while recording the record, like after he'd healed, he broke his foot again doing motocross this time. So Canadian. They're so Canadian. They're talking about like collectivist record labels and, you know, radically left politics, but then it's also, yeah, we like hockey and doing motocross. Very Canadian. But, yeah. So, this record was considered a huge departure for the band musically. You know, not only does Todd come in and, you know, he replaces John, and one review I read was, now all those weird John songs are gone, which is a good thing, which I don't know. I like the John songs on those records, even if they don't really fit. But the Todd does fit the sound of propaganda much more. And I don't think it's that huge of a difference from this record. I do think later records are a little bit more so, but it definitely is is going in that direction. But that's that's the main like backstory as far as that goes, like we can get into like lyrics and other stuff later. But so what did you think of this record? This was, you know, you mentioned you need to hear one more record to see if you were a propaganda fan. What did you think of this album? This is the one. If there's only one, this is the one. It fucking rips. This is a good record. Like, and I definitely should go back to let's talk and give that another listen and like see how much of this is there still. And I mean, I should hear I'm interested enough to hear Potemkin City limits. And even maybe some of the later more thrashing metallic stuff. Like, I honestly wouldn't be super shocked if I wound up liking their later period more than their first two records. But this is definitely the consensus pick. Like, this is the one that I think everybody likes. And there's a reason for it. Yeah, I definitely think like the old school propaganda fan who only likes the first three albums, they like this record. And even the like, more thrashed minded people. Though I also think that they just like all the propaganda records. If you like victory lap and supporting cast, you probably like all the propaganda's albums. Yeah, I think the people that like those records probably like something that's more essential to propaganda that is present through all of their records. Yeah, yeah, I could see this being the record out of the first three that they they prefer. If they're a fan of that era the most. Yeah, yeah. Well, that oh man, yeah, this record rules. I've always liked this record. You know, ever since I heard it a couple of years ago, like, you know, getting into the first three records, this record, it starts off so cool too. Like the opening track, it starts with like the the clip of you mentioned her name. What was it again? It was Bella Galos. Yeah, so it's a clip talking about, you know, people were killed and you know, where I come from, you know, for singing these songs. And you know, this is my, my chance to actually like sing these in safety in which is also a badass way to start a record, you know, like, and these are the songs that kill, you know, could you get you killed where I'm from and then it kicks into a propaganda badass song? Like, yeah, it's a good clip. But like a dumber ban would have just used that line and then just would have been like starting to a badass riff. They were smart enough to like give you the full clip and the full context of everything. And then at the end of the song, like actually playing like some of the music that they were singing in that footage. But it's an interesting, like the way the song starts, it starts off like it builds. Like it's not like an immediately just like punch you in the face with like hard riffs. Like it's just like it builds up to it with this like really like minor key, very like serious sounding song. And then just like when you read the lyrics of the song, it's like talking about her trying to, you know, basically gain citizenship to Canada and like all the awful tragedies that she had to go through during that time period. And then he relates it to like his life at the time and it just like doing like dumb kid stuff. You know, it's like a very, it's like comparing contrasting like who this person's very difficult life with, you know, his, his more like normal suburban Canadian life, you know. But then it just like, man, this record's so good. Like it's just, it's a very fast paced album. It hits really hard. And they follow up that opening track with a cover. It's actually an iSpy cover, which is not been called fuck the border. And this is what I think of every single time I see a political ad on TV for this upcoming election that's talking about borders and immigrants. That is the number one topic that is being hammered home on all political paid spots right now. Just this every single spot for or against. Yeah, it's like the number one topic. It's the number one topic that Americans are most concerned with this election. And I'm like, you're all thinking about this in the complete wrong way. It's like, this is what the song says, fuck the border. People should be free to go either way. Institutions are financially able to transfer money back and forth all over the world. No issue. You can send your money to an offshore account. No problem. You can go pay this company in China to manufacture your drop shipment of whatever poorly made quality products. If you have money, you can go anywhere you want and do whatever you want. Yeah. And these borders are just designed to keep people in concentrated areas the other way. Yeah. And yeah, I just see those ads and I get in fear. I'm just like, it doesn't fucking affect you, which we know the real reason why they want to maintain this like a concept of illegals, people who are here illegally. It's like, it's so that they can capitalize on cheap labor. It's to continuously extract labor from people they don't have to pay. It's all exploitation. And that's the only reason why they're pushing this narrative so hard. Why both parties do it? Why? I'm not trying to be like topical. You know what I mean? Yeah. No, that's the thing is like I was this song comes on. I'm like, which it's like that opening room, like ringing out guitars and the tom build up and the bass line build up and then kicks into such a killer riff. And the chorus is just like, fuck the border. And I'm like, I wish this was not so relevant. Holy shit. Yeah, this came out 2001. And also it's an older song than that. It was an iSpy song before that. So like, who I don't know exactly when that song was written, but still, it's like, oh God, 24 fucking years later. And this is like still an argument that we're having just over and over and over again. It's just, yeah. Oh, I've seen, I see the Kamala border ads all the time. And it's like, you are working against all that goodwill you built with the VP pick. Just like, that's like, well, the worst way is try to get me to vote for anybody. Yeah, I mean, this, this whole record, and so much of it. I mean, you know, there's just like, generally, you know, generally speaking about, you know, imperialism, US imperialism in particular. And I mean, like I was talking about a minute ago about the reading list for FBI agencies is too long. Like, there's a song about coin tell pro, you know, a song about about the FBI busting up the Black Panthers and trying to bust up leftist groups and anarchists. And the record itself is a quote by the title of the song comes from Mumiya Abu Jamal. Yes, it's a quote from him. And it's like a very, it's a pretty long quote too. There was a piece of that story that I didn't know. He was a, he reported a corruption in the police department before anything happened. And then it's like, oh, all of a sudden, he, yeah, yeah, it's a case of we gotta make this guy go away. We have shame if you became a political prisoner. Yeah, yeah. It's pretty long quote to from him, but it's a really, it's really good quote, basically talking about in the future, it would, you know, they will nothing less forever is the basic idea. The loosest, you know, quote, not to resist is to acquiesce in your own oppression. It's kind of the follow up point to the today's empire's tomorrow's ashes line. Yeah, that being said, that's also my favorite song on the record. That is like probably one of the more melodic tracks on there. And I love that song so much. It is so good. It's funny because you look at the record and like some of the lightest lyrics on the record is back to the motor league, which is just talking about the punk scene, which with a band like this, you're like, wow, you guys are writing a song about the punk scene and how they would rather, he would rather go back to his shitty job at the motor lodge, which is, I believe, how did he describe the motor lodge? It's like a concession stand type job, I think is what it was for him when he had when he was a teenager. And it is a travel agency, that's what it was. And he hated it, hated working there. But the the song is talking about, you know, he'd rather go back to working in the motor lodge rather than before stick part in the stupid play acting punk scene full of childish and intellectually lacking bands to just give rich kids what they want. And this song also references two different dead Kennedy songs in like the same line. The line is 15 years later, it's still reeks of swill and chicken chicken formats referencing both chicken chicken formats and triumph of the swill by the dead Kennedy's yellow more right than wrong. Yeah, people love to be like, Oh, yeah, Jello and just his histrionics and just over the top. And that's just like, I don't know, history has proven kind to his stances. The stuff he was writing, then it's like him and Dee Boone and and Joe Strummer, just like they're the ones that had the most to say. And it has borne itself out over time to just be like, Oh, they were right. Yeah, I mean, you can read the lyrics on just about every single song and then you can tell what most of them are about. Yeah, they're it's interesting because a lot of the reviews that I was reading around this time period was like, he's a little, he's a little less blunt with his songwriting. And I was like, this is less blunt. Like these are like nail on the head. And even he was like, yeah, I tried to make it a little bit more veiled than the more veiled than the earlier material, which is just like, I mean, I guess, I guess it is more veiled than like stick the fucking flag up your ass. I wouldn't say it's veiled. It's more articulate. I think anything because, I mean, it's just like how how veiled is in some unforeseen fucking Pentagon budget drill. Today's Bath regime is just the red scare of yesteryear. And I drink myself to sleep because I'm losing faith. I mean, how do you even remember all the words to these songs? Yeah, that's what that's all bright monument Baghdad. That is that's the song that came out in February of 2001 before we even got in the because because they were building to it. Oh, yeah. Yeah, Iraq specifically. Yeah. Yeah, you can see it. Just if you just look at everything that happened in that area up until then, the other like really big, big standout song on the record is Purina Hall of Fame, which whoa, yeah, starts off with the horribly depressing audio clip of an animal, you know, just listen to the song, you'll hear it. It's it's rough. It's rough. And it's a song about Purina who has their Hall of Fame, which like consists of like animals that did something heroic. And then the song is just about how like you have this this thing about like celebrating these individual animals that did something yet. It's made off of the company is the slaughter of animals to produce food, you know, and just like so it's one of their strong vegan vegan songs, which they are a vegan band. They don't do too many songs about the subject. Maybe it's because whenever you're super passionate about like everything that they are, you have to like, you know, you have to only do so many songs in each particular style because like they one of the things that the band does like they lyrically, they focus on lots of different things. So they focus on anarchist politics, social causes, veganism, you know, homophobia, they on their previous record, they had like a label on it that said gay friendly. And one of the they had asked Fat Mike a question about it being like, well, you know, what can we do like sell more or something like that? And it's like, or something, what can we do to get 15 year olds list to our music more? Because I think they're trying to be more like, you know, getting their ideas out there to a younger group of fans. And Fat Mike's response was, you put gay friendly on the album cover of your last record, and a no 15 year old is going to bring that home. And I guess at the time, that's probably true. 1996 when that record came out, what 15 year old is going to bring home a record that says gay friendly, you know, raised in a home. And I think Chrissy even agreed with that. He was like, I wouldn't have when I was that age, you know, yeah. So like, this band is just constantly challenging everyone like challenging their own label, challenging the own their own audience, you know, like the song is like specifically going after like the punk scene for not being intellectual enough. Like, they will go after literally everyone and every subject. And I just really appreciate the depth of their knowledge and just how, how they managed to write music about it. I think there's a degree of introspection too, that really helps a lot of their like, that they don't do only heavy handed accusations. Like, yeah, comparing it, you know, comparing your own life in in peaceful Canada, suburban Canada to like someone who is experiencing like occupation and genocide and and, you know, sexual violence regularly. Like, someone who is like the same age as you at the time, you know, of those events occurring and just being like, I have it very easy. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah. And with that, like, just being like, because I have things so much easier, I need to like, I need to do more and I need to speak more and I need to, you know, put emphasis and focus on the experiences of other people, people who are being subjugated and, you know, and I need to speak out against capitalism and and, you know, empire because I mean, I have the freedom to do that and it's relatively easy for me to do. Yeah. It's so interesting to, it's so easy to kind of just focus on like, lyric content and you're like, what they're, what the message of these songs is and hyper focus on that. And then kind of just like gloss over the fact that these are just bad ass songs. Like, these songs musically go so hard. And I don't listen to a ton of skatepunk and I don't listen to a ton of like, thrashy stuff. But what the way that they do it, I just, I love it. I love how they do it in this band. There's a really nice balance of of melodic and hard and technical and but accessible and catchy. Yeah, I know a lot of their influences are metallic and they lean more into that going forward from here. I hear still a lot of the damned and who's could do and, you know, maybe more, maybe some more 80s hardcore. Yeah, like, we talked about, we've talked about the lyrics a lot on this record and like, the lyrics were not necessarily the problem. I mean, some of the more juvenile stuff on the, you know, the first record maybe was a little bit of a turn off. But like, the lyrics and like, the politics was never an issue for me liking propaganda. I mean, if anything, a lot of that was like, man, I wish I liked this band more because they have the later consistently great politics. But yeah, listening to this record, I'm like, within a few songs, I'm like, oh, yeah, this is the one like, this is easily the Prabhagani record that I needed to hear because the music's just great. Yeah, a lot of some of the more melodic parts, I got a really big, like classic, you know, like the best voice sets fire stuff. I kind of feel like there's a similarity. Interesting. Maybe there's just like something about the tone of voice and maybe like the cleanness of his voice during the really melodic parts, but it's still really hard and fast. Yeah, I could see that. Now, as you mentioned that, like I can kind of hear, like, especially in those parts where like a lot of the music kind of like drops down or like it's, it strips down to a less, like just like a cleaner guitar tone and he starts to do a little bit more of that, that clean singing over those parts. I could see that it definitely has, I feel like it's more of a mood than it is like a direct comp, you know? Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely much more if voices fire was faster and yeah. Yeah, you listen to this, I'm just like, they are so fast. Like, I was trying to think of like, who are the skatepunk bands that they are kind of emulating? And I don't know that they are emulating skatepunk bands. They were just emulating thrash bands and it's just like worked into the shape of punk music because even like, I feel like even bad religion at their fastest don't come close to this record. Maybe the first album would have been would have been more in line with that sound and they just like over time were like, let's play faster and faster, you know? I don't know how he can sing these songs with with this music because the music is so fast, his delivery is so fast and it's so wordy and so many like syllables and so many of these words. And the guitar parts aren't, I mean, they're not super technical at the fastest in, you know, when he's singing a lot, but they're not easy. Right. They're definitely, it's definitely impressive to sing and play these songs this fast and, you know, live, maybe they don't play quite as fast. And they're only a three piece. Yeah, they sound so huge. There's definitely overdubs in the guitar. But, but even still, just being like one guitarist coming up with all of the guitar parts and like overdubbing against yourself to like to give it the distinct quality of us. It feels like two guitarists. It doesn't feel like he's just layering the same idea on top with just a separate with another guitar track. Like they feel like distinct different guitarists playing, but just him, which is really impressive. There are two vocalists on here. Todd does some vocals as well. He does the more like, not guttural, but more like just like the more like hardcore vocal. Yeah. He was in another, he was in a political grindcore band called Swallowing Shit as well. So that kind of explains like his background. I don't, I never listen to much I Spy. So I can't tell you like how fast that band was, but yeah, just it, Todd is like, Todd was like a perfect fit for this band. And they don't add their second guitarist until 2006. So they become a two guitar band later after Potemkin City limits, which might explain why those records are lean more into that thrash sound those last three records, because then they, he, they bring in David Guellis to play from, he's in the '06 to 2015, and then they bring in Sulyn Hago to play from 2015 to now. So Sulyn a four piece, but yeah, just like really obvious direction to go. Like they're playing like this as a three piece. They probably should have been a four piece during this period already. I do have a quote from on all music review that I, I enjoy. So it does beyond the high energy fists in the air music. Today's empires, tomorrow's ashes deliver up vituperative lyrics on a variety of hard hitting subjects, like the most next door neighbors, the members of Canadian trio are well aware of America's foibles and are more than happy to make their opinions known. Previously, however, there was enough irony and wit to the lyrics to suggest the deep down they'd forgive us. If we'd only straighten up and stop bringing the whole block into disrepute, but as a parent, the propaganda are losing faith in America's ability to change, and the battle is beginning to wear the band down. There is much less humor here than in the past. The frustration is obvious, the anger rower, and the dispiriting depression seems to be setting in. Yet hope may still conquer all, and the group has enough faith in its fans to believe that the fight is not yet over. And it is funny because they are a Canadian band, and most of their songs are about America. And like the the album cover has like the American flag draped across the world, which is definitely just like oh yeah America's influence is worldwide. Whatever we do, it affects every corner of the world because that's how America set it up to be. Let's get all our fingers in all the pies we possibly can and see if we can manipulate this in our favor. I mean, I mean, I say this is the largest military of the world. And he does talk about Canada like having its own, you know, it has its own issues and problems, and just like this facade of being like a peaceful country, despite the fact that like, oh yeah, they're police. Instead of, you know, going after black people, they go after Native people. That's the main difference in their police. Yeah. And yeah, Canada is very much allied with United States and global politics. Yeah. Yeah, Canadian politics are very similar to American politics too. And just especially more recently, there's been a more right wing bent to to Canada, and a lot of like American talking points are like seeping into Canadian politics too, and it just is weird. Yeah, but they have a parliament. So they're a little safer. Yeah, but the UK has a parliament too. Yeah, yeah. So it's just it's just slightly better. It's easier to flip all at once. You kind of like the benefit. Well, we need to start wrapping up here. What other you have any like final thoughts about this record? No, not really. But yeah, just like I said, I think this was definitely the one to listen to. I'm really glad that we did it because it's great. And it it's a real fired up, which is perfect for this political season. Yeah, I want these two months to be over. Yeah. Yeah, it's like when I post the record, and it ends with pure with Purina. I'm just like, fuck. Yeah. It's like going to work was listening to this record. And I like ended right as I got to work. And I'm like, Oh, good. Let's take my headphones off and do something I hate. With no hope in politics and humanity. But yeah, was surprisingly in a good mood, despite how hot it was. And much of the other circumstances, just a great record to listen to. Yeah, Chris, apparently, for the longest time, did not like this record. He thought mainly due to the production, he wasn't a fan of the production on this album. And he'd wanted to like remix it for a long time. But he's like, but also people don't care about remix of 20 year old albums. And but then they turned around and remixed and remastered it. Yeah, for an anniversary reissue. And they actually removed the samples, they removed the sample, the front and the sample at Purina. And people asked him about why did you why did you take the samples out? And he's like, well, because the people who are interested in a remaster from us don't need to hear that message again. Like don't need to hear those exact clips anymore. Like they know what they're into, you know, they know the message of the span. So that's why they removed them. I don't know, I don't know if it changes the listening experience for that album or not, but I don't know. Feels like I would undermine it a little bit. They're there on the streaming versions, though. They are. Yeah. Yeah, it's an interesting decision. I don't know on the why. Maybe maybe like a vegan friend who was like fun, especially the last one. Yeah, if you're already a vegan, you probably don't want to hear that. Yeah, I know. Stop. After I listened to it the first time all the way through for revisiting purposes, I was like, man, I wish there was an easy way to skip forward and on Spotify, and just find the slider, I guess. But what would you rate it before we get out of here? 4.25 could definitely climb on revisits, you know, four 4.25 is my my initial rating, giving something a four on first listen for me is a pretty high rating these days. And I give it a solid four, but also talking about it makes me want to rate it a little higher. So I could be right there with you on a 4.25 as well. Yeah, it's a great record. I think I like less talk more rock a little more, but yeah, it's just a really good record. I'm so glad we talked about it because it's so good. And I feel like maybe talked about less than the first two. I don't know, despite probably being more important to the band's overall legacy and sound than those records were, but all right, I think that will do it for us. So thank you all so much for listening. You can follow us on all forms of social media at Punk LottoPod. We have a voicemail line 202 688 Punk, and we have an email address punklottopod@gmail.com patreon.com/punklottopod. All your weekly audio, the $5 producer and listening club tier and the $10 you choose the album tier. So thank you all so, so much and we will talk to you next time. To order Punk, call the number on your screen. Rush delivery is available. Remember this special offer is not sold in stores.
