This is the HopeCast Network. Stories and shows you actually want to listen to. Hello everyone, my name is Ashley, our post time back, and I am thrilled to announce my new podcast on the HopeCast Network "Locks of Labs" where I will be chatting with comedians, restaurateurs, and everyone in the entertainment industry about comedy, duh, pop culture, and of course, a little bit of food. You can follow "Locks of Labs" on Instagram at "Locks of Labs" podcast, and "Locks of Labs" will be available on Spotify, iTunes, anywhere you listen to podcasts. So like, follow, subscribe, and I cannot wait to nosh with you. ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ All right, here we go. Welcome to another great episode. If you don't know what you don't know with Kamal Grant, I am here with someone that I had met recently, and, normally, I don't do this, but they say, "Got to keep your friends close and your enemies closer." So I brought him down. We were just on a competition show together, Gordon Ramsay's "Food Stars," and he was on the other team, and he may have had something to do with me exiting the show, I believe. This is an expose all about me trying to call him out. Let me just say, let me just say, I'm a fan of pop to be here. You know what I mean? That's great that they put that in the commercial. They didn't have to put it in the show, 'cause, remember, we were talking about that when we were out there how I told you that I'm only trying to come up with cool things to say. So they got to use how it makes one of these soundbites, and that's the only soundbit I got in there. I thought I said a lot more cool with things, but they didn't put them in there. I mean, for what it's worth, you heard, I tried to do the same thing, and you heard one of the most iconic ones that I dropped, quote, "Goochie Man," and they didn't even put it in. What a mistake, honestly. I was too sure they were going to put that in. That was A1. That was great. That was shit. Yeah. So, yeah. Well, you know. Andrew Whiting from Hot Drops Hot Sauce. Yes, sir. Hot Drop Sauce? Yeah. I mean, Hot Drops Hot Sauce, Fermented Hot Sauce, Hot Drop Sauce, if you say one of those virgins a couple of times, I will appear in your room. And so, like, yeah. Or at least like a bottle of fermented hot sauce, you know, will eventually show up. And per my performance on the show, I had to wear the merch. You know what I mean? I wore the merch on every episode, so I had to do it. Actually, to be honest, it's like all the clothes I have are basically merch, like all of them. I don't... I mean, you might as well, I mean, you see, I'm more than repping this black donut shirt here. So, you know, there's always donut gang or cookie gang for life. We out here on these streets, you know. From doorman, from doorman to doorman, I respect that, you know. Don't look against the doorman who actually had the show. We're going to get into that. Well, let's start with you and your history. Yeah. So, are you born and raised in Sonoma County, California? Yeah. Born and raised in Sonoma County. I had left when I graduated high school and enrolled at Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo, which is a pretty big, like big top five agricultural school and then close to food. And I didn't really know what I wanted to do. The B is as close to food as possible. And that was agricultural business was my direction. And then I lived in San Francisco for about 10 years after that. And I worked in the cannabis space and the software world and all these different, you know, burgeoning industries. Ultimately, I ended up back in Sonoma County, which I told myself I never really wanted to do. And now that I'm back, I realize that maybe I was the problem then. And actually, everything here is pretty much what I enjoy. Yeah. So, yeah. So now I live back in Sonoma County and I love it, which are a couple words that I don't think I could have predicted stringing together into a sentence like that later at earlier points in my life. So, yeah. Sonoma County born and raised back in the biz. Back in the biz. Fascinating. I mean, cause I mean, that is, you know, speaking from someone, obviously all the way out here, Georgia. I mean, I've spent time in San Diego and spent a lot of time in New York. But, you know, everybody around the country looks at Sonoma County as, ooh, I can go to Sonoma County, wine country, you know. So, so that sounds like a wonderful fairytale place to live in. And then you got, you know, you got a lot of great restaurants, you know, the French lodries out there and stuff. So they think of this, ooh, like this is, this is one of the culinary epicenters of America. So for you, cause I know you're a big fool here, we can talk about that also for you to be like, no, I didn't want to be here. That, that actually seemed strange to me. I didn't know that. I think it's just a matter of like, you want to leave the corner of the world you grew up in and like the irony of it is that there's a lot of things here that are poor to me. And it took me a while of leaving and going elsewhere and evaluating other spaces and being in them to realize that, you know, this is actually an area that is comprised of all the things that I love. You know, great, great food. I said I worked in cannabis. So at the center of cannabis, not too far away, just, just through the red word, redwood curtain up north. But yeah, it's a, I think it was more of just like, I wanted to, I wanted to leave where I grew up because I wanted to go somewhere else. And then I went somewhere else and I was like, where I grew up was not so bad. And maybe it was me who needed to grow up a little bit and then realize that. And I was like, I mean, like you said, I love to cook because I like to eat. There's a lot of avenue to sort of that around here. So yeah, it's great. Now that is a good story. I mean, me and you are kind of similar in that same vein. That's how I was when I first got out of high school. I immediately joined the Navy and was out there in San Diego. I wanted to get out of Georgia. I Rome, Roman Desmond calling me right now. Let me just, let me just put myself on do not decide. I know the poor, the man who got roasted by a mocktail. That's ridiculous. That's funny. Amen. I mean, I love Roman. That's the homie. I'm going to chop it up with him. Sorry. Yes. As you were though, my bad. I was unprofessional, but yes, you're really grown up. This is not a professional space. Where is this a chillax? You know, we're just trying to know things, trying to know things. So yeah, it's the same. I needed to leave. And then when I left, I realized how much I love Atlanta, Georgia, just the Atlanta area. And I think, I mean, just the testament. You know, you kind of like where you were raised kind of shapes you in your life. And that's why I'm always fighting so hard when people hate their hometown. I'm like, but what did they do to you there? You know what I'm saying? You should enjoy it. You know, that should kind of shape you. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I went through that. I went through the phase of that. And then I don't know. Yeah. It's an interesting thing. Like, I feel like there's just this gravitational pull back to you. It's just this gravitational pull back to your hometown at some level. And you either embrace that or you reject it. You know, and like, I don't know. I mean, not everybody's hometown or growing up experiences. Fantastic. And I get that. But yeah, I don't know for me from someone who grew up in a wine country. You know, not too far from the greatest restaurant in America. Yeah. And it was a funny sell. So I have a great agriculture out there. It's about French fruits and vegetables everywhere. And every restaurant is utilizing these and making a great product out of it. So, so that's a beautiful place to be. Yeah. So, yeah. So were you initially a foodie always growing up your whole life? Or when did you really embark and be like, you know, I really love this food industry. No, it was really like, I think my family is very epicurean. So food and wine and like, you know, very much embrace that side, that side of life. And ultimately the kind of the atmosphere that comes as a result of those things when they combine. And so I think in short is it was always a focal point in our house where my mom cooked a lot. My dad would cook a lot. So it was always there. Like I kind of like joke about this sometimes, but I would sit at the kitchen table in the kitchen. You know, in the kitchen of my mom, she would make dinner. Like it was a focal point of our family was to have dinner every night at the family or most nights at the table. So, you know, like one of those things that I think I took for granted growing up. And then I realized it was actually a really special thing. And more over than just the actual having dinner was, I was always present with dinner was being made. So like all the smell, you know, like onion, garlic, and every sauteing together to make the base for a sauce or, you know, something in the oven cooking or whatever. But also my mom, like me, likes to talk about what's going on. And so she would just kind of speak about what she was doing. You know, you don't, you want to put in the onions and then you put in the garlic last so it doesn't burn. You want to make sure you get the essence of it without, you know, or this is why you blend something. And when you, you get this. That's going to be paying attention and be doing whatever sitting at the table. But I would get this informal education around food, which contributed to my appreciation of it and ultimately love to eat. Like, I think that that's one of the best ways to explore the world and you can explore the world. You don't have to be within that, you know, a different region to explore the world. Like you can make Korean food at home. It's not going to be the same as you would in Korea. But like, you know, it's a nice way of being like, oh, there's like takes you out of where you are. You get to experience something different. So yeah, it was, I just, I grew up around food. I grew up in an area where a lot of my family friends and, you know, close relatives and love to eat. And celebrated sort of the nation of all the things. Because that's, because that's one thing that, you know, because I mean, I went to the Colorado City of America, so I'm deep into the chef world. But that's one thing that showed me this guy has some bonafide. He's not just a regular foodie because you told me about how when you like to travel overseas, you know, you know, you don't do the regular passport bro stuff. You know, you like to reach out to Columbia. Let me reach out and find, you know, a Colombian cooking class so I can learn how to cook Colombian cuisine while I'm there. If I could find old grandmother to teach me something, I said, oh, this guy serious. He really likes food. He really enjoys the essence of it and seeing the people who make it in their cultural context of making it. So I found that fascinating. Yeah, that's, honestly, I think that that's like a lot of people go to different countries and go to museums. I like to go to different countries and just go straight to the markets. Like straight to, I mean, we did this in London. We went to bro market and you did this as well. I credit you for the same thing. I mean, some of the stuff you told me you ate when we were in London, like the eels, I was like, hey, that is insane. You know, but like, but I respected it because that's like a, it wasn't about like, it wasn't this preconceived notion of like, will I enjoy this or not? It was like, I'm going to experience it and then figure it out. And at the very least, you experienced it. And so I think it's also like, that's how you experience a region or a space like, you know, going to Columbia. Like you said, it's like, I want to learn how to cook Colombian food. Like I, I want to go when I go to Korea, I want to learn how to cook Korean food where I go to Thailand or Laos. And all those, in my opinion, the best way to experience a culture is to experience the cuisine, but not just the cuisine, how the cuisine is made because the cuisine usually comes from like, I mean, it always comes from a deep rooted history. So you learn a lot more about the region you're in and like, I can't eat food at the music. No, but I can eat food if I'm in the kitchen learning about in like one of the most traditional dishes made in, you know, a specific region. And so, yeah, I'm just trying to eat more all the time. No, that is the same. When I go to places, I only really want to travel to eat and eat very well and then find out what's the most unique dish there. So yes, when we were in England, I said, you know what, jelly the eels is their thing. I never thought about it in my life. Let me give it a shot. I realized it's not my thing, but it wasn't as bad as I thought, you know, it wasn't as weird as it appears to be. So, but it's cool. I try to you because most people don't, most people don't do that. They stick to what they know and like, the best way to expand your comfort zone is to get a little bit uncomfortable. You don't have to get like, totally uncomfortable, but you know, you don't expand your comfort zone by doing the same things that you always love. So, you know, yeah, I think it's, that's good. That's, that's life education right there. That's stuff. You can't go to school. You got to go out there. You got to try stuff. You got to experience more life and do the untraditional things like find out what the people like get on the streets with the people. See what the humble people are eating. So, yeah, I remember I specifically remember you asking in Burrow Mark about the meat pie and it was like a cold. Yeah, I didn't get the thing back home. I put them like that. It was like, what were they thinking? Why are they still selling this so hard? You can eat that. Oh, yeah. That is amazing. I don't put it in the way. A cold meat pie is wild. Like. And it was like, I mean, it was like seriously dense. Like, it was like a legitimately a brick, a brick of meat pie cold. Yes. And she said, this is the way you have to eat it. And I was like, okay, I want to do it. Y'all's way. And that thing was not good. Like, I, you know, I was thinking about eating unique food, even the jelly eel. Like, I can see aspects of why it was good and why people ate it then. This was like, or even why people eating now. I could see why people eat meat pie back then. You know, a good way to preserve food. You know, you need a quick meal on the go. I don't see why they're in business right now. Who is buying these meat pies? Is it only towards like me going to him by this stuff? Because I don't see how she's doing it. But it was unique and shut out. It looked really good. Yeah, it looked really good. Shout out, shout out Burrow Market, the meat pie, you know, epicenter. But it was, it looked like it should have been good, which was confusing. Like jelly eels. You could kind of like infer maybe that would be a little intense texture wise. But like, I love pie. Like, it's about me fall. That's like hot pie season. You know what I mean? Like, so to be betrayed by a pie is just as tough. Like, as soon as she hands it to you across the counter, you already know what you're dealing with. If you're like, okay, this is heavier than it should be. This should not be this dense. This is like the black hole of density coming from this thing. Okay. Question, though. Do you think it would have been better if you heated it up? Yeah, it definitely would have been better. Would it have been great? No. And that's another thing because I think she said with variety of meat pies, I wanted the most traditional. So I did get probably, I forgot what I got, but I did get like the most like grizzled. It wasn't like, she probably said, like, oh, I mean, she used to something. I was like, no, give me, give me the pork. Yeah, it was like, it was like pork and was it like potato? I don't know. It was very dead. I remember when you ordered it and it was like, they were like, sounded great. And it was like, by far, the one that sounded the worst. And I was like, we'll see how, you know, ask him how this goes. You know what I mean? We're going to give it a shot. And that's, that's how I experience traveling because I'm creating new dish. If you want to call yourself a culinary or a chef or something, you need to really experience everybody's cuisine. And then figure out why it's good. Even if this flavor doesn't work, maybe the texture of why it's made works. And then you could build that into your recipe or menu if you're developing. So I was like, try new things when I'm out. It's like a foundational thing too. You're like, okay, cool. Like I get maybe why something like, okay, like meat, like pasties are a huge thing or cornish, cornish pasties is like a big thing now. You know, like, they're amazing. They're basically like a handheld pop pie. I don't know why this haven't made it over, you know, but like, that is probably has root what you ordered at Borough Market. You know what I mean? Yeah, because you actually, you then, Pat sees and she was like, okay, you didn't say paste these like an American. Thank you for that. Oh my God. Those are like, I'm trying to get, I need to get credit. You know, when I'm in the world and I want to be respectful of their cuisine. That's like the highest compliment that they can, that I can receive is like, oh, okay, like, you understand like how it's supposed to be said, like, I immediately feel like I have more respect for you than just like an average person. And just like an average tourist who's like pasty. She did. She gave you the props and I was like, cool, we're in the gang. Okay. She's like, here's the worst thing ever. I don't mean that in a negative way or like disrespectful, but it was, yeah, I've got you tried it and I experienced it through you because I couldn't eat it. I don't think I need it. And I chose that one. So there was other ones that were probably more traditional that would blend aspects of probably things that I like, but I was like, nah, I'm going for this one that I've never tried. Let's do that. Yeah. Your foundation of English food was like, you did a good job setting a foundation for like traditional English food, which I get the stereotype out. That's not the case anymore, but like, you know, the stereotype is actually getting a lot now because, and that's what I was telling people when I came back, I was like, they're like, it's English food bad. And I was like, here's the thing, we have all the good English because, you know, we're cousins with them. So all the things that they do good, we do here too. So we already do like good fish and chips. So you can go there. Yeah, it's great. But the things that you never heard of over here, if you give over there, you're going to hate it. Yeah, you know, that meat pie, if we didn't already adopt it, you're probably going to hate it. And that's what I've taken from that. One thing, though, that I like we did this together when we went out for Romans like birthday with you, me and Kaisa and Roman, and we went and got roast. Yeah, roast is like, rush is amazing. I mean, like, one of the coolest, not even like, I mean, the meal itself is great, but the food around it, like this culture, like on Sunday, everybody goes out to the third. And the pub is also like this top level cuisine. And so, I don't think of that when I think of the bar, I think of like bar food, you know, like fried, you know, whatever. And that's fine. But it's just like all kinds of lamb, pork, beef, like fish, chicken, like it's just, it's a week. A proper Sunday roast is outstanding. If you're not in England, I'm pretty sure some fancy American restaurants that probably in your city do a proper Sunday roast, go get a proper Sunday roast. Make sure they're doing your shirt, putting outstanding. And that's another thing I got there was in one of those markets. There was a place doing a Yorkshire pudding. A Yorkshire roast burrito, where they do the pilling like a tortilla and then put all the stuff in the potatoes, the gravy, the roast, that thing was outstanding. Okay, that means the cross the mind immediately. Yeah. That was really great. So I really enjoyed that. But yeah, so England's got some good food out there. But the stuff that you haven't heard on. But it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, you know, be weary, just be like, be weary, be weary. Yeah, so let's get into this hot sauce. So, so I think you say you started it around where you were playing with flavors and you started around the pandemic. I guess is gifts for your sister or making like traditional gifts for presents for Christmas or something or how that worked. Yeah, I've always sort of like, I started as a desire to just want to make handmade gifts. Like, it was sort of like a buck the consumerism side of the world. Like, Oh, here comes the holidays. Like, the only way to celebrate the holidays is to go spend a bunch of money on a bunch of random shit, because that's like the thing. And so my goal was not to mean, frankly, it was the first, it was during the pandemic. So, you know, pandemic was began in March of, or like, March, April of 2020. And I was living in San Francisco at the time. And my lease ended and I was like, I am not going to seek a new lease in the most expensive city in the country, like, except for New York, where I can't even be outside. Like, I grew up, you know, for those who don't know, Sonoma County is about an hour north of San Francisco. So relatively close. And I, I called my parents up and they have a house that has an in law unit. And I was like, Hey, can I, can I come back? Because I don't see a scenario where I'm going to be living in the city. And they were like, Yeah, of course, basically I get back. My sister is about two years younger than me and is a designer by profession graphic designer. She had moved back from New York, the other like worst place to live in the country during the pandemic. She, so for the first time in like 12 years, we're back under the same roof as a family, which is like your just dynamic. You've been independent for like 12 years and you, you know, like in this. Hard to digest mentally place, but ultimately, you know, that was, that was what happened. And so we're all back and we all love food. We all love wine. We all love cooking. We all love eating. We clearly are all from the same family. And so a lot of similarities and my dad has a, my dad loves a garden and so does my mom. And so my dad puts his vegetable garden together every year and it's always really awesome. And it's a great place to grow, you know, fruits and vegetables and so on and so forth. So I don't know why, but he planted like an immense amount of peppers like you see, like no way you could ever consume this amount of peppers fresh or you would fucking light on fire. And so he had grown poblano's, jalapenos and fresno's. And so when they all started to fruit around, you know, September, October here. He's like, you should figure out something to do with these because we got like 25 pounds of peppers and like, I don't know what to do. And so I looked it up. Preserving or preserving or is the only way to do it. So you either dry or ferment. I didn't know a lot about fermentation. So I learned about it, watched, you know, a bunch of videos, which I love to watch cooking videos, learned about it, tried a couple of them out. They turned out pretty great. And then my sister was like, I mean, I was like, hey, I'm going to make these as holiday gifts. I got a red pepper, like, sauce and a green pepper sauce. Make a little too packed, red and green holiday, you know, themed. And then I'm going to give them out to friends and family. Yeah, so like, I mean, effectively what happened was it was holiday gifts had access to a lot of peppers because my dad had grown a ton and I like recently moved back home as like a 32 year old. And so he has this giant garden full of peppers planted a ton of fresno, jalapeno and poblano. So jalapeno can be red, but is typically green, poblano green, fresno red. So I had these two different colors and I wanted to maintain them. So I kept the greens together and I kept the red separate and made kind of like a holiday inspired to pack of a red and green sauce. And my sister, who's a graphic designer by trade was here and also living at home and she said, wow, if you're going to make stuff by hand, like I could make my gift to you for the holiday could be the label. So we sat down together. I had a vision in my brain of exactly what I wanted it to look like. We went over it. She brought that vision to life like she always does still with the brand. And so, yeah, I mean, and then the wax dip came from that I wanted it to have kind of a more exciting feel and really like be something you unwrap, you know, like you have to literally unwrap it. And so that was how it started. Honestly, it was like a happy accident where I just wanted to make gifts instead of buy gifts. And because it was the pandemic, I had a lot of time. And so I figured out how to do that. And then, yeah, the long the long of it or the short of it is really that people who received them asked if they could buy more. And I didn't have anymore. And so I was like, I've worked in cannabis now and in CPG sales for, I don't know, nine years in the California market. I definitely understand buying signals. And so enough people asked about it where I was like, you know what, I'm going to keep making these while I'm doing this job full time and then. Yeah. Oh, that's leading me on a show where Gordon could yell at me about it, you know. Yeah. Well, I mean, the bottle looks beautiful. Your sister did an amazing job. It's really a clean look. And, you know, with the wax dip, it really looks classy. But I do got a problem. So I do want to yell at your sister about something. She designed it great. Well, I was just looking for the website. And there's a picture with a little bokeh boy on there. And I was like, why is it this guy on the package. That little bokeh needs to be prominently featured and repacted. Man, she dropped the ball, but that's not the only one to play. Just like a straight up shelf, like just a shelf of hair, dude. That thing was, I was rocking that shit for a long time too. And I was, I was wearing that haircut, man. That was, dude, I like people have bangs. I had the 360 bangs. That's what I'm saying. There's a little hangin' proof right there. Put it to the map picture on the patchhead. That's it. That's all I got. That's all I got. That's all I got. Only not. Honestly, like, you might be honest something there. Having had a history before the job I quit to be on the show was producing labels for wineries and spirit companies. They also made my labels recently. So I have a little bit of experience in this realm. Some manipulation where there's a silhouette of just the bowl cut. I can see that making its way out of the bottle eventually. Maybe for some limited edition, you know what I mean? Yeah, that could be something. All right, so we spoke about this show. I don't know if you spoke about it a lot. We're both just featured on the second season of Gordon Ramsay's Food Stars. So how did you get into this? How did it happen for you and what was your journey like on it and how do you feel your journey is after it? That's a good question. I think the way it happened for me was I just started making as many pieces of content on the Instagram for hot drops as I could to sort of tell the background story and how I wanted it to be different. Almost kind of like the anti hot sauce. A lot of hot sauces are really hot and have intense visuals and this and that. I really wanted to go the exact opposite direction to stand out. So it's very minimal. The flavors are flavor heavy, less heat. They have both. So I really wanted to showcase that it can be used as an ingredient as somebody who loves to cook and not just a topping. And a lot of people's culinary skill set is limited to utilizing hot sauce as an ingredient. And I think that gets a bad look because it's a foundational ingredient. It's got a lot of times, onion, garlic, whatever. So I made a bunch of these videos and somebody reached out to me and was like, "Hey, they reached out. They just followed me." And I'm a small business. So I look at every single person who follows me and I saw that she was a casting agent for a food show. And so I messaged her back before she had messaged me. Her name is Joy Tenenbaum. She was great. And I was like, "Hey, I think I'm going to submit an application for this show." And she replied basically saying, "You beat me to it. I really want you to let me know when you do so we can set up an interview. Win through like three months of interviews." And then I was actually in London when I got the call that they wanted us to audition. And most people don't know this. You didn't just get on the show. You were invited to audition, which means you left everything behind with the caveat. You might make it, which is crazy. We're trying to teach audition to be on the show. They didn't even let you know that you were on the show yet. It was a very unique experience. So you get invited to audition so you set your whole world up. You're running a small business. You're doing everything. You're the janitor, you're the owner, you're the accountant. You do everything. And so having to figure out how to get somebody to take over your business when you're gone is tough. And so let alone in this ambiguity of like, "Am I going to make it? I don't know." Here's how much time you try to be out there if you're onto the last episode, but you also can come back by the weekend. Yeah. Make like in three days. You might bring everything for up to two months. You might be here for three days. You know? It's like a weird place to be floating. And so I got the call. I actually was in London. I was in Notting Hill visiting my sister who moved to London. When I got the call that I was going to be able to audition and that they wanted to fly me out, and I was like, "Great." I put my three days in at my job. Not two weeks. Very corporate job selling to the biggest wineries and spirit brands in the country, if not the world. And I basically quit my job and went into the free-floating world of not knowing whether I would get on this show or not. For me, it was quite literally all in. And so went to the audition. We met everybody who potentially could be on the show. We were the people who got selected. Just a little bit over 50% of the invites. That was the one thing I think I dropped the ball on with that show. They should have showed how intense it was. That first episode, because even though I wanted to get on the show, the same thing went through all that stuff. Very stress-pressed. If I was going to be here for two months, I also wanted everybody else to be on the show because we're talking. That's where we met. And all of you remember when I kept coming to you and said, "I'm destroyed." This is a replica poster. I'm on an emotional roller coaster right now. I can't handle it. Okay, seeing people get kicked off, seeing people get put on, it was wild. It was a wild experience. Okay, I know I just interrupted a great conversation, but my name is Brad. And you may be listening to me or any of the other talent we have on this network at HopeCast. We want to thank you for listening, but also, we want you to like and subscribe to the show you're listening to. So, when you're done listening, go on the iTunes or the Spotify and leave a great review if you like it and follow the show on Instagram and any other platforms that it's on. I think we're on TikTok. So follow us on TikTok. But make sure you leave us a review. We love good reviews here at the HopeCast Network. Now, I guess I'll let you get back to your show. You know, which I think there is camaraderie in that alone. It's like, "Oh, you've chosen to put yourself in this very uncomfortable space in pursuit of what you are passionate about." So, like, props period for even doing this, getting here, being interviewed for three months. And then to observe arguably the best and worst moments of people's lives back to back to back was like, "Dude, I'm a pretty stable person." That was intense, watching people come in and they don't know about how like, you'd have to come into this room and, you know, they would producers would be like, "Someone's going to come in and so gather around the general area in which they're going to walk in and basically be prepared for them to be crushed or them to be ecstatic." And, man, that on repeat was very, it was like emotionally invested, if you were watching, let alone, like, "Oh shit, I know I'm about to go through this exact process." Yes, it was a lot. So, when I saw the first episode, they didn't really show off the intensity of all that. And that was, that could have been two to three episodes because it was a lot in hearing everybody's stories because they didn't really dig into a lot of people's stories, especially the people who got let go. And a lot of them were great people who had great stories and great businesses too, which is very unfortunate. So, it's a unique experience. So, you're on the show. Yeah, you know, my enemy now, now I officially hate you. Yeah, we find, and then you find out who your enemy is, like, instantaneously. It's like, "Damn, I thought we were, I was, like, hanging out with this guy and now we're like, "Huh, now if I see him on the street, it's on site." I'll tell you what, on day one, zero side eyes. On day two, a lot of people's side eye and each other, sizing them up, being like, "Everything was cool." Like, "Hey, we got this killer opportunity." And now it's like, "All right, it's either you or me." You know what I mean? And I think you're right. They didn't like, that, for a show that's predicated a lot on, like, creating dramatic content. There were a lot of instances in that where it was like, the drama was, there was a lot more drama. That was real. None of this was, like, contrived. I mean, it was, like, fucking intense, you know? It was intense. It wasn't so shit on teams, you know? Like, we, we end up, all of a sudden, all of us who are on the same team are now split into, like, different teams. And we're looking at each other differently. We're wondering what these competitions are going to be like. So, then the game really starts, and there's multiple games being played. Like, you're playing your team, you're playing the other team. You're trying to stay sane. You know, you've been in these same clothes for 48 hours. Okay. Yeah. So, we can get into that. So, I didn't make it on the show. I didn't last long. You did. You did make it on the show. I mean, you were there too. No, right. It's just no stress. This is not the pity party for me. But this is really just a question for you, since I wasn't there. How was, I mean, the rest of your time on the show, and how was that experience, was every drilling, dressed, justice, stressful, being on the show every time, thinking, every time you wake up doing a new task, you think, is this the task that I'm going to mess up behind, because it's something completely out of my wheelhouse that I'm going to get embarrassed? How, how was that rest of the experience being on the show? I mean, I think, from a macro perspective, in a weird way, I really enjoyed it, but I wasn't void of the stress. You're on camera. I mean, what they don't show you is they're like, you have 24 hours to work on this challenge. It's like, no, we didn't. We had an hour and 40 minutes to come up with the entire recipe, and we're being filmed the entire time. So people are like, oh, this is, it's an hour long episode. It's like, no, like, there's probably 300 hours of collective film that went into making that one hour episode between all seven cameras and GoPros and things. You know, so I think, I think going back to what I said, where it's like, you're playing a game, but you also like, I need to have a business after this. So like, I want to make sure that I represent myself in the way that I would want to represent my business. And fortunately, like, you know, I didn't, I think if you assume a character, you have to live that character in real life. And I wanted to just be myself on the show as much as possible. And I would even say, you know, the editing is strong, as you know, like, they can give you, like, I got my own complaints. I mean, like, I feel like I got a very, like, you know, fortunate edit overall. But I think I come off as a super serious person on the show, which, yeah, I'm not that, you know, like, I think I'm serious. I'm always like, intentional, but I'm also like a pretty light-hearted person. So it feels like that stuff didn't really come through. It was like, Andrew's dead serious all the time. And it's like, there was the one second before I was dead serious. I was joking around, but the cut made, you know, so it's being aware of that. Fascinating that if they did edit like that, because I feel like it would benefit them more to show how charismatic you are, how funny you are. And I feel like they left a lot of stuff on the editing room. Because I mean, even watching, you know, the episodes that I was on, people were like, why didn't you talk the whole time? I'm like, I did. I talk the whole time. They're not going to put in everything we say, and it's not the Kamal Show. So, yeah, I did say things, you know, but it is weird how they edited and choose to make you. So sometimes it's not quite your personality. No. But I mean, that part, like, there's one instance of like during the wine challenge where I said, like, imitation is the highest form of flattery. And then I got absolutely roasted for saying that. I said that, like, off camera, when Jess was like, I can't believe he just stole my whole idea. And I was like, Jess, this is like the best thing that could happen. Like, I basically said, you have a great idea for a product that nobody, I work in the label world. I've never seen this. Like, this is great. And I was really saying that, and I knew she couldn't do it for her wine bottle. So I was like, we should do that. And then, like, I told her off camera when she was like, I can't believe you stole that. And I was like, you know, imitation is like the highest form of flattery. Like, I'm telling you that that was good. And then she said it on camera in her box. And then I said it again in the grilling, but they edited it to make it look like, not only did I steal her label, I also stole that expression. And I was like, dude, like, I would never do that, you know, like, but hey, that's the power of editing. I think overall, I really enjoyed the experience. And I'm, you know, like in the future, you'll be a part of these, but I'm going to start doing more of a series where I'm like doing food entertainment hosting and like having a show that's focused on that. But man, there is no preparation for that kind of experience. It's really like observational and being situationally aware of what's happening because there's more things going on than the general viewer would ever understand ever. And I consider myself a part of that still. Like, now when I watch a show, I'm like, I know it happened right before that or after that. It is fascinating how they choose to tell the story, because I mean, obviously these are real life events that happened, but you can edit certain things a certain way to make it look like something happens. So it is fascinating. And yeah, so how I guess how is so that was a good success. And obviously we both went on there for the marketing prowess of, you know, national televised TV thing, which is going to really put your product at the forefront, which was really good that they did. The first episode really highlighted, you know, everybody's product and then gave us a little hometown episodes to highlight that. So that was outstanding. So how do you feel? Where is hot drops at today and how is it moving alone? It's great. I mean, honestly, there's the publicity of being on the show. It breaks into two worlds. It breaks into your product and then it breaks into you. And so like, it's not like just your brand of hot, like for me, it wasn't just hot drops. And all of a sudden became like, Andrew's the brand of Andrew Whiting in addition to the brand of hot drops. And so I think the reason I say that is because, you know, having been on each of the 10 episodes, the one that we really talked about our products on is either the first episode or the last episode. Like in the meantime, it's really about you and your entrepreneurial business skillset and how you utilize that in these situational challenges. I mean, like first episode, I mean, I like, I got a shout out on the commercial where it said, I'm Andrew Whiting, I'm the founder of hot drops. And I was like shell shocked when I saw that before the first episode came out and I was like, Oh my God. Like, I got a huge influx of new hot droplets, new like people interested in the in the business. A lot of people love like hot sauce is a well loved product. So I think it immediately exposed the brand to a huge amount of people who otherwise wouldn't know about it. And it's not like this is Shark Tank where it's like a $10,000 e-bike or something. It's like, Hey, it's hot sauce, you know, so like 40 bucks or 45 bucks or whatever for a, you know, a variety pack or this many bottles like. That's not bad. Like, I'll buy this. So if I'm going to watch the show, I'm a Gordon Ramsay fan. So transactionally, it was great. And then, you know, like, I wish there was more opportunity to be like, they'd ask you questions during the show and they'd say, you know, tell us, how do you do profit and loss, like the food truck challenge in your own business. And you'd say, well, in my business with hot drops, you know, we buy fresh produce once a year locally and we do all the, a lot of those, the parts where it was the prep never really made it into the final edit. But it was a big part of the conversation in the filming was like, in your business, how do you do this, this, this. So, I mean, it was great. I think the first episode and the last episode I was on, I saw a massive spike in the amount of people who came to the hot drops website and the page and the Instagram. And then in between, it was a lot of Andrew. It was like a lot of people finding out who is this guy. All right. So how about outside of the website? Have you reached out to distributors or have you reached out to retail stores? Have you started talking to buyers and how is that conversation going? Yeah, honestly, I have. It's very familiar. It's kind of interesting because that was my job is I worked in sales in the cannabis space. So I worked with the buyers at, you know, basically every dispensary north of central California. I worked with at some point and some in southern. So a conversation I'm very familiar with. And yeah, I got a lot of outreach from a lot of outreach from both local and national brands asking, you know, what's your time? We saw you on the, we think it'd be great for our store. What's your timeline for wholesale and distribution? And, you know, that's translated actually yesterday. We got an order from sort of what is for me, like sort of like the holy grail of places to shop in Sonoma County is a brand called Oliver's Market and it's a source like you mentioned at the beginning of the of the podcast is like, they source from a ton of local farmers. So when you're buying their produce, you are supporting local. You're buying high quality product. It's, you know, probably not from a mass monoculture farm that's spraying with a ton of. It's like, I love spending money on food at Wallivers. So to now be a part of what they carry is like the highest honor as a Sonoma County resident making food. So they place their first order of, you know, 32 cases, and that's a massive one. And then it's beautiful. In accordance with that, I've had, you know, people on LinkedIn reach out from some much larger organizations that would definitely be recognizable, but will remain unnamed for the time being. Okay. Yeah, it's the motion. That's what it's about keeping the money going. And we talked about that. That was like, we talked about this when we were on the show. It's like, this is the goal. Like, you know, I want, I'm looking for business opportunities and I want to have an opportunity to showcase me and my product. And so, yeah, I think the show is incredibly impactful in that way. And I even got a couple calls from some well-known celebrity entertainment chef. People, which was honestly like so encouraging and like the little kid in me was like, very validated by this because like, we might look like we know everything about what we're doing. But like, every day is literally a learning process. I never say I'm failing. I'm like, we're learning every time something goes wrong. We're learning, you know, that is what it's all about that. Okay. Well, that's beautiful. So where's the best place if you want to buy hot drops? Go to just hotdrops sauce.com. Yeah, hotdrop sauce.com is the best. Or honestly, like the Instagram, you can get to the website through that. The Instagram is the same thing. Hot drop sauce. Yeah, my goal is like, I want people to enjoy their food more. A lot of hot sauces can sometimes be overpowering and intimidating. We very much want everybody to enjoy what they already enjoy more or just feel like you have more control over the food that you're cooking using it as an ingredient. So, yeah. That's beautiful. The final question, I gave you some homework to do. I like to give them homework. It's a great book and everybody's interpretation of it is different and people look at it different. So I like to know what is your analysis? I gave you the giving tree. You read it. What is your analysis on? And you told me that you read it years ago, so you're already familiar. Has it changed from when you were a child or how many other years ago to just reading it recently? And what do you think about it? Yeah, first off, I love this. So I give you a ton of credit. I think this is, this book has been a part of my life as long as I've been alive. It was one of the first books my parents would read to me. It's interesting. I said this to you and you said, "Good. Save. Hold those thoughts." I feel like I'm glad you did because I was like, "Oh my God. Flooded by nostalgia and memories of it." And it's interesting because it goes through the phases of this boy's life. And it's sort of like this saying where you return to a place unchanged to see how you yourself have changed. Looks good. That's not my quote. It's not Gucci Mane either, but it's up there. And it's honestly kind of, it's symbolic of my return to Sonoma County as well because when I was a kid, I read this book differently. And I was like, "What an amazing, what an amazing thing. What an amazing resource or almost like sense of companionship in this, really a tree." But the tree is very human in the book. And so I have a hard time rationalizing how I compartmentalize or label how the tree is, but it's like this everlasting, longstanding thing that is always there for you. No matter what version of you yourself are and how you change over time and become a different version of yourself or evolve. And so when I read it, most recently I was the little boy, I was playing in the tree, eating the apples, swinging from the tree. And then I read it now and I felt more like the, it almost made me feel guilty because I felt like I was the guy who wanted more from the resource, like, "What can you give me? What can I take from you?" And really, it kind of feels all the giving tree is always giving and you're all in the boy in this is always taking until he comes to a point where he realizes as an old man, there was so much offered by this entity that was like so selfless in so many ways that it's almost like it became relevant only at the end to this older man at the end of his life. But I associated most with the version of it that I almost felt guiltiest about, which was like, "I want to have money. I want to create this thing." It's like you detach from the things that you love the most because you've these things that you've been told that you need. And I don't know why that triggered that feeling in me, but it definitely was like, "Am I almost guilty that I'm the one who's like, "Hey, how can I use this resource to generate income?" I haven't gotten to the point where I've chopped off all the branches yet because that's like a whole other level. But like, I don't know, a book that is so simple hit pretty hard again, more so as an older, like, individual, older version of myself than I was when I was the carefree boy. It's like, like, cares sort of stop becoming carefree and they became contingent on other things in that part of the book where I referenced myself feeling more like the boy wanting the resources. To sell the apples. Yeah. It made me feel like maybe I'm like missing, you know, like the bigger picture here of like, and I don't even know what that is, but it's a good feeling, I guess. Yeah, no, that is a beautiful, wonderful tech. Yeah, I mean, that is fascinating. That is a very unique take and I definitely understand that I can feel like I have that sort of point of view also. So, yeah, that's beautiful. Since you said your parents read it to you, give it your parents and they should all read it and see what their take is on it now. Maybe they're like, what? Good idea. I bet you they would cry 100% because like, they themselves are no longer the person that they were when they were reading it to me when I was one, you know, like, or whatever. But that book, like, gets referenced, like, I don't know, you know, once a year or whatever, but it gets referenced, you know, it's a permanent part of my life. And it is one of the more impactful books that is honestly conveyed in the least amount of words and images. Like, it's not just nostalgia. I think you could read that for the first time as like a 50 year old and it would hit just like it. You know, it's a great, great quote, great question, honestly. Yeah, that's why I like it. I do see it depends on where you're at in your life, your interpretation of the book or what you're thinking about at the moment. So how you said you're thinking about it now differently because you see yourself as the boy, but maybe midway in the journey. So like, you're taking the resources from them. Am I giving back to this relationship as I should? I need to get to a certain level, but you know, so it is, you know, and that is the space you're at right now. So it is a unique thing to me. Everybody has a different take on it and I think that's why it's a really good thought experiment to just read the book and think about it. I heard a quote recently by a very unexpected like source that struck me in a way that I thought about it when I read this book. Like, you know, I love like the whole culture of hip hop and like the history behind it, but I wouldn't consider Kevin Gates to be like atop my Rushmore. Like he said something, he was like, takers always recognize givers and that's important for the givers to recognize the taker. And so that's I think why I felt a little guilty is like at no point in that book is the guy giving back to the tree. I don't know how you really give back to the tree, but the tree was getting more from the little boy when he was a little boy. You know, it was like, we're sharing this experience. And as a little boy gets older, it becomes less about this shared experience and about what this thing can offer. You know, like, I think it's an important thing to just think about. I think maybe that's where it's like, I felt more like the 10. I don't want to feel like that. Like, I want to feel like, you know, I think it's important to have balance in everything and being, you know, selfless is a good, is a great quality always. But yeah, I think that was why I say I felt this form of guilt is I was like, man, I feel like the taker in this instance, you know, and like, what does that say about me or like, how can I be? You're gonna reciprocate the giving lots of relationships. Sometimes you're the taker. Sometimes you're the giver. You know, it's about ballots and figuring, you know, where you're looking at that at, you're probably at the get it to that deep. You're probably thinking about a specific with being the taker. Yeah, it is unique that you're having this way thinking, and that's kind of what that book is good for. You know, you, whenever you come at it from, if you're coming at it, some people will read the book and they'll just put themselves in the tree and they'll think of themselves in the tree and be like, you know, like, if your parents read the book, they're probably going to be like, oh, I'm the tree and I will give anything for your success. So this is a great book. It's about helping your children to be as successful as possible. You know, you don't have kids right now. So you're just kind of like trying to build yourself up. And hot, hot drops is about to be in every target Walmart, publics, Kroger's safe way around the globe. But then after that, you know, you read the book and you'll be like, you know what, I have a different interpretation of it. Now, now that I'm in a different point in mind, it is about where you're having your journey in life and how you're feeling. I would love to get to the place where like, I think a lot of it is like, I feel like the taker because I want to establish this form of like financial stability. It's not like I want to buy like a 47 mansion house. I just want to enjoy what I enjoy right now without having to worry about the financial aspects of life, you know, and like, that's a big part of it. But honestly, if I got to a place where I was fortunate enough to do that, I would immediately try to find people like me and figure out how to give whatever I can to support the same thing. Because it's just, you know how it is like if you've built multiple things, and like, just as always nice to have someone who wants to give advice from just from the perspective of like, or insight or whatever, just because they have it, not because they need something. And I would love to aspire to be this, you know, I do aspire to be that I would love to be that. Okay. Well, yeah, that is the goal. That is the next level after, you know, obviously financial success is mentorship and try to give back and help people bring people up. So it is beautiful. You know, that's, that's the journey that we all should be on. So, yeah, it's a beautiful thing. Great question. Honestly, great question. Hit the core. Hit like all of you hit like multiple versions of my life. It's funny. I kind of read it and see if I can get people to read it while they're on the show so I can catch them mid as they think about it. So if you're like crying or emotional, be like, I mean, I mean, when I went through it, I was like, like, oh, man, that one was there like, I'm not that kidney. I'm not like, I missed that like carefree, you know, part of my life where I associated with this version where I'm swinging in the tree. And I'm hanging out and like, I mean, you said, like, you are on that journey. You know, you, you reached, you know, you, you passed 30. So you get in like sort of the mid 30s. And that's where you kind of get it. Maybe this is too deep for this, but I can't see. You hear it. And everybody has it. I mean, I think the donut shop is my quarter life crisis. Like, I was at a point in my life where I was like, I, you know, I'm cool, but I want to do something more like I need. I want something else. So that's when I was like, I need to do something. And I started the donut shop. And so I would say that's my quarter life price. I needed something else. You know, I'm saying. And so maybe, you know, in your journey of life, I feel like maybe a little past there, but maybe or maybe you're still in that, that phase of the quarter. What is going on? You know, I'm saying, I mean, yeah, I think that phase is like sort of the figure it out phase. It's like you got to the place where you knew what you, you know, like, you've learned a lot about yourself. By the time you get to that phase. And then, you know, maybe the things that you were most, you know, intrigued by then, you no longer are now. And like, that's why I say what I said, it's like, it's interesting to remain returned to a place unchanged to see how you yourself have changed. And that's, you know, like, it doesn't feel like you're changing it all the time. But like, we're in a constant state of evolution. And sometimes those are bigger leaps. And then they are gradual. And like, it's, I think you also become aware of like, oh, well, like, happiness matters as much as, yeah, financial like stability is obviously like a core aspect of your life. But are you willing to sacrifice most of your happiness to obtain it? A lot of people will do that and will realize later that it may not be the most gratifying or fulfilling thing. And that's why I give credit to anybody who was in that room with us on day one. Because it's like, you guys all have this delusional confidence in yourself in the same way I do. And really a desire to like, to make your life better and make your life more enjoyable. So, whether I got along with everybody. Business in a dream. So business first starts with a dream for something. And then obviously you want to reach a certain amount of success. So that's the only reason anybody flew out to England because you want that thing to be successful your dream. So that's why I say they dropped them all. They should have really captured that all that in that first episode. And there was so much over there. Because what was it 26 people 26 people were going through that. And 12 of them got ejected. And honest shout out to all those people who did all that and didn't get the, you know, like the amount of time that you and I did on camera. There's so many wonderful people like Jeff and Bailey, like these people we spent time with that are like, I just feel like they put their life on hold. And they had the same hopes and dreams we do. And they, and they still do, which is even more of a testament to their work ethic and their belief in themselves. We got, you know, by being on the show is like, we may not have won. I don't think we lost, you know what I mean. I don't think it's a loss. It's great. I mean, this, this is already a win. This w meeting is great. I enjoy all this. I was like, the sad part is I never once thought I was going to win. But I mean, I kind of, I know what you mean. I was always out there like, I need to promote the brand. Hopefully I can stay as long as possible. But it felt like hitting the lottery. Yeah. That's how it felt like buying a lottery ticket where you think, you know, this would be great to win. But you don't really think I'm going to win. You're only playing your life out to win. So that's how it kind of felt. I couldn't if things go right. I don't know this, this is like hitting a lot of these, but it was great, the whole experience. And I really appreciate being on there and, you know, doing this and meeting you so it's great. Yeah, man. These are like one of the best parts is meeting people who are going are committed to doing the same thing that you are when usually you're doing this stuff by yourself. So like, I've told everybody this that I was asked me. The best part about this was the people who I became friends with through it because we might have been on different teams or whatever. But like the minute that the filming ended, we were hanging out in the lobby of the Marriott, you know, Bon Voi and like, you know, making plans to go out to dinner or whatever. It's like, it wasn't like survivor where it was like, who stole the rice from the, you know, it's like, dude, like, let's go like, let's make the best of this. And like, honestly, the ability to communicate like you saw Roman called me, you know, like, I talked to Roman about, you know, I'll send him samples of stuff to see if my new packaging works. He'll hit me up and be like, does this Kickstarter campaign? Like, to me, like, this is the closest we'll get to having coworkers in an entrepreneurial space. And I'm invested in your success, just like vice versa. And it's like, yeah, this is the coolest part. I think lifelong friends that are made at a result of this crazy scenario. No, and that's what this podcast is really about. You don't know what you don't know is a realized being an entrepreneur is like being on a private island. You can't really learn anything else. You can't know from anything. You can't grow you. So you got to try to get off your island sometime and meet other people and be like, Oh, shit, you know that. And then you can take it back and help build your island up because you're just kind of alone in this building. You know, because when you work in a, you know, a restaurant or something, you can learn from the chef or learn from other people. But when you're an entrepreneur, you're doing your own thing, you are the top now. So it's hard to, you know, kind of grow. So this is what this is a journey is about trying to talk to people like yourself because I need to know more things on another episode. We don't know what you don't know. We're learning. We're learning. You know, like, it's only it's all about learning. And that's how you learn what you don't know so that you can know more. Yeah, definitely put me. Yeah, everybody go check out hot drop sauce on Instagram. Check out their website. Buy lots of hot drops. I really appreciate it. Joe, and if you don't know, because he won't shout it out himself, magic middles are fucking elite. Like, I want to ask you for more and I want to buy more. As soon as I can, I will. I'm going to. I eat those cookies. Like, I'm not eating one or two or three at a time. I'm smashing, like, four magic middles in, like, one sitting. And it's like, they're so good. They're so good. I appreciate it. That's part of my journey right now is to get magic middles everywhere. So we're going to keep doing this. We're going to keep doing this, keep having fun, keep figuring out new ways to market, keep learning from business owners like yourself so I can figure out my journey. Help you on your journey or whatever it takes, and we can all grow them in there. You know what I'm saying? So that's what it's next time we do one of these. We'll just, we'll do it in person. I'll come out to Atlanta or you can, you can come out here and we'll do it at French Laundry. Yeah, man. Great. So appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you very much for having me. This is an awesome format. I appreciate being invited on it. Thank you, too. [Music]
