Grumpy SEO Guy
My Experience Going on 6 SEO Job Interviews - Episode 73
This is Grumpy SEO Guy, Episode 73. I went on six SEO job interviews, and in this episode, I'm gonna tell you about them. You're listening to Grumpy SEO Guy, the SEO podcast that doesn't waste your time with nonsense that doesn't work. I'm the Grumpy SEO Guy, and I'm sharing with you the strategies that have helped me successfully run my SEO agency for the last 14 years. In this podcast, I'll be sharing my knowledge and experience, discussing tips and strategies, and trying to help you cut through the confusion that permeates this industry. If you listen to this podcast, you will know more about SEO than 99% of people on the planet. Ready? Let's get started. I'm the Grumpy SEO Guy. Let me tell you why I'm Grumpy today. I'm Grumpy today because I had six SEO job interviews, and they were all terrible. I'm laughing because most of the interviewers who interviewed me did not understand SEO, and that is kind of reasonable if maybe you're a company and you're just trying to hire an SEO person, but you don't really know a lot about it, but with agencies that literally do SEO for clients, they should understand SEO, and I'm gonna talk more about this toward the end of the episode, but if you're an agency and you do SEO, and your strategy is based around content as king, there's a reason that you're having difficulties with success in your agency, because that is not what SEO is, and fans of Grumpy SEO Guy know this, but apparently the agencies do not know this, so that will provide a little bit of understanding for this episode. I'm just gonna tell you about my experiences, and I'm gonna give you some tips and advice for SEO job interviews, okay? So, but before we do that, my lawyer tells me that I have to say this right now. A quick disclaimer before we get started, everything I say here is based on my experience and opinion from 14 years in the industry. I don't officially know how Google or any other search engines work, everything I say here is hypothetical, and based on my experience, this podcast does not constitute advice or services. What worked for me may or may not work for you. Okay, back to the show. Okay, we're gonna get started. So, before we start, I wanna give you a little bit of background information. First, there are two kinds of companies that you might get SEO job interviews for, okay? One is an agency, an agency means they have clients. It means you're doing SEO for a business that is not that agency, okay? It's like pretty straightforward, I hope. The other one is a company or a business, and you will be doing SEO at that company to that company's website, okay? So, okay, does that make sense? So, I'm just gonna specify, like, I'll say if it was an agency or if it was like a business or a company, okay? Like, just because I feel like this is kind of an important distinction, okay? And then the next thing I wanna say is, there are two kinds of questions that you will get in an SEO job interview, okay? The first is questions about SEO, okay? Like, tell me about backlinks. Yeah, you probably will not get that question, by the way. But, or they might say like, you know, how do you do keyword research, right? Like something like that, whatever. The other kind of questions you will get are like scenario questions, okay? Tell me about a time when you had a disagreement with a team member and what was the problem and how was it resolved? Those questions are difficult. I will not give you the answer to those questions because you can't just use someone else's story, okay? I'll help you with the first ones, but I cannot help you with those second ones. I mean, if you ask me, I could tell you if it's a good answer maybe, but I can't like, tell you a story for you to like, take for your own, because that's just a bad idea. Like, it has to be authentic. Remember in another episode, we're talking about sales and being authentic versus trying to just being a robot that doesn't seem like what you're saying makes sense for who you are, right? So it's gotta be like a story that is personal. It can't just be a story that a different person told you anyway. So, okay, so there's that. So some of the interviews I went on were kind of ridiculous. Some of them had very long written tests. Some of them were make a video of yourself answering these questions. Some of them were Zoom interviews. Some of them, well, we'll get to what it is in a minute. And there's one more thing that I wanna say before I actually get started, okay? It is a very frequent question on the SEO subreddit. Somebody will say, hey guys, I just did this SEO job interview, and they want me to do the following as part of the interview. And it's usually like an analysis of some type, okay? They're like, they want me to audit this website and recommend a strategy going forward, okay? Now, many of the replies will say, they are just trying to get free analysis from you, do not do it, they are crowdsourcing their SEO, okay? Now, let me just be very truthful here. I normally disagree with what most people write on most SEO forums and on SEO subreddit, okay? Because most people don't understand SEO, but I think these people are correct when they say that. I think that the companies are actually trying to get free audits and they are disguising it as an SEO job interview, okay? And that's just me. Look, the argument could be made, okay, that you might want to give somebody an analysis for part of their job interview to make sure they know what they're doing, okay? That is a fine argument. I will not even disagree with that. But I also think that some companies will do it this way and pretend to have a job interview, but just take the free audit and then not hire the person. I honestly think that's what some of them do. I might explain a little bit more about that later, but let me just say, be very wary all the time about doing free work unless you feel like doing free work, okay? I help people for free sometimes and it's not because I secretly want them to buy something from me. I don't have an agenda, okay? I help them for free because I feel like it. If you feel like helping somebody for free, help them for free. Do not help someone for free because you secretly think that it'll make them more likely maybe to buy from you because that's gross, okay? Do you understand the difference? Those things are the same. You're both helping them for free, but they're not the same because on one of them, you secretly want something and on the other one, you're just doing it because you desire to do it, all right? Anyway, and actually another thing before we actually begin this episode, I recently did a Zoom call with somebody who said they had an SEO job interview coming up and they wanted to practice some questions and go over some stuff with me. That's cool, if you have an SEO job interview coming up and you would like to set up a Zoom call and go over some of the things they might ask you or talk about maybe what the job description is or do a practice interview or, you know, hey, these are my answers to my questions. What do you think? And you want to set that up? Why don't you write me an email and we can talk about setting that up? I can't guarantee you that you will get the job obviously, but I think you will be more prepared for it. But if you are getting ready for an SEO job interview and you want to practice the questions or something, write me an email and we can talk about setting up a Zoom time for you to do that. Later in this episode, I'm going to tell you some of the things that I told this person that I just had a meeting with on Zoom for their SEO job interview. Let's get into the job interviews. So the first one that I did, I can't remember the position. Look, all of these were anything from SEO strategist up to like director of SEO at the company, all right? Like, I just went on a bunch of them, you know, just because, so anyways, one of them had like a 45 minute test that I had to take and I had all these questions like, what is the biggest client you've ever worked for? I specifically remember this question being kind of like flabbergasted that it was on there. It said, what is the best backlink you've ever gotten? Because usually nobody mentions backlinks, okay? So I was like, okay, that's a cool question. And then this question said, you have a client that isn't ranking where they want. What changes would you make to their website? And then it said, keep in mind, this is the most valuable question on the test. And so naturally, I began my answer by saying, what's the reason that a question about content is the highest valued question on the test? That doesn't even make any sense. And then I explained about authority and why they were wrong and naturally they didn't call me back. But I'm pretty certain that they are one of those agencies that doesn't get any results for their clients because they probably think content is king. Anyway, let's jump to the next interview because I don't really remember anything else about them. Anyway, so the next interview that I went on was a FinTech company, okay? So FinTech is financial technology. They were a legit company, they were pretty big company and they had many offices around the world, okay? This interview is very, very odd. So we're in the meeting and he looks at my resume and he's like, that's very interesting. Your resume is very different from the normal person that we interview. I'm like, yeah, it feasibly is, okay? So then he immediately jumps into the SEO questions and I remember this was his question. What is the difference between indexing and crawling? Just immediately starting with him. And I'm like, well, indexing is when a search engine is adding a website to its records so that it may serve it in the future in the results and crawling is when it's actually checking your website to see what it's all about. And he's like, that is correct. And I'm like, yep, what's the next question? I'm not arrogant in an interview. I might be slightly arrogant. Probably don't be arrogant in your interviews, but anyways, it does matter. So then he keeps going, what's this? What's that? What's the difference between this? What's the difference between that? And then I remember he asked me this question. He's like, what are the different types of redirects? I'm gonna be honest with you and you guys, this is like, this is my legitimate answer. I'm like, look, I know there are many different kinds of redirects but the only kind we've ever used is a 301, okay? Like in SEO, the only one that I've ever had to do is a 301. I'm like, I know there's also like a temporary redirect, you know? And I'm like, look, I'm literally at my laptop right now and I could secretly look for them and then answer the question as if I knew them all along but I'm not gonna do that. I'm like, the point is in however many years I had been doing SEO at this time, I'm like, I've never had to do anything other than a 301 from an SEO perspective. And he's like, sure, next question. And I'm like, all right, whatever. So this continued and he just kept asking me one after the other, after the other. He's like, what's the difference between PPC and SEO? And I'm like, one is paid ads and one is not paid ads. Like, I'm like, how specific do you want me to be? I'm like, PPC is when you pay every time someone clicks on your ads. SEO is organic results below the ads and you don't have to pay every time somebody clicks on you. Like, you probably have to pay for the SEO but you don't pay like per click. I'm like, I don't know how specific you want me to be on this. And he's like, look, that is a good answer. And I'm like, okay, cool. And then the weirdest thing, the weirdest thing was that this was a fintech company. All right, this is where it started to get like a little bit shady. Like, I believe that this was an actual company but this is where it started to get a little bit shady. He's like, 'cause it was a fintech company. He's like, how much do you know about investing? And I'm like, I don't know, like a bit. I'm like, I have been investing. Like, this doesn't matter for anything but I'm like, I've been investing for a while now. I'm like, what do you wanna know? And he's like, well, I'm not looking to ask you what's in your portfolio, but you know, just what can you tell me about the different markets? And I'm like, I'm like, how specific do you want me to be? I'm like, well, there's stocks, there's futures. And then I explain futures. I'm like, there's options. And I explain that. I'm like, you have options on stocks and futures if you want. I'm like, there's crypto, there's currency. You know, it doesn't even matter. I'm like, why is this a question? Do you wanna establish my familiarity with your industry? How is this related to SEO? I didn't say any of that, but I thought it was very odd that he kind of like kept nudging me in that like financial direction a little bit. Like whatever, dude. Anyway, so this went on and I'm gonna, I feel like people are complaining. They're like, you know, grumpy SEO guy, you're not telling us enough of the questions he asked. You need to tell us questions. And when you tell us questions, 'cause I'm gonna write down your answers so I can use your answers in my interview. Like, you're missing the point of this episode. Anyway, so this process of like, question after question after question, which I understand is what an interview is, but like SEO question after SEO question continued. This interview is supposed to be an hour, okay? But it went on for 90 minutes. And I thought that was very odd, but I also wanna specify here that one, it got to a point where I was like, listen, I'm like, we're kind of out of time. I'm like, I don't mind continuing if you have more questions. Like, I like talking about SEO, but I just wanna be very clear here. We're like at the limit. And he's like, oh, I'd love to keep talking to you if you have more time. And I'm like, that's cool, let's keep going then. You guys know me, I'll talk about SEO like seriously. Those of you that have scheduled Zoom calls with me, like, you know, I will literally keep talking. I'm like, do you have any more questions? What else do you wanna know? Anyway, it doesn't matter. So anyway, so eventually he started to change the SEO like direction a little bit. And he's like, what do you know about migrations? I'm like, can you be a little bit more specific? I'm like, are you talking domain migrations? And he's like, well, just talk to me about my, what kind of migrations do you have experience with? And I'm like, well, and then I gave him an example of a thing. I don't, I, I'm not sure who's listening to this podcast. So I don't wanna be specific here, but I gave him an example of a thing once. (laughs) And he's like, okay, okay, that's very interesting. And then he's like, well, I think we're out of time. And then he goes, but he goes, this has been very interesting interview. And I would love to schedule a part two with you. And I'm like, that's fine. I'm like, nice, let's do a part two. But here's, here's the weird thing. And I know that I didn't like specify all the questions that he asked, but it felt to me like after a certain point that he was trying to pick my brain and we were getting off track of interviewing for a position and it felt like he was trying to learn from me, which is all right with me, but it just, it felt, it felt a little bit weird. And when we get to part two in a second, I'm gonna tell you why this got super weird. And then after part two, they wanted what is basically a free audit. So let's just wait till we get to that point. So anyway, so part two, he's asking questions. What's this, what's that? How do you do this? How do you do that? What do you look at? Blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, all right, cool. And so then we get to a point and he goes, walk me through the process of doing a CMS migration. Like, I'm like, okay. I'm like, listen. I was like, I don't think that a CMS migration is necessarily like an SEO project, but I'm like, you know, SEO should definitely be consulted for doing a CMS migration and CMS being content management system in case you have not heard that acronym before. Like WordPress or whatever other type of CMS you're using, okay? And I'm like, but I mean, here's how I would do it. Here's the role that SEO would play in that. And then like the next hour was like CMS migration questions. And I'm like, that's oddly specific. You know, I mean, I was still like answering them, but I'm like, that's, that's oddly specific, right? Like, why are we having, why are we talking for an hour about CMS migrations? Okay, so anyway, it does matter. So this part of the interview ended then. He's like, we'll be in touch and I'm like, fine. And so then I get an email like a little bit later from their HR department, okay? And they're like, we want to talk to you on the phone and I'm like, okay. So I call them and she's like, so this is what we want to do. And I'm like, okay. And she's like, we're going to give you an assignment. And I'm like, yeah, no. And she's like, and we're going to have you do this assignment and then you're going to present it to this panel. And then if they like the result of your assignment then we will offer you a job. And I'm like, okay. So you want free consulting. I'm just like, okay, whatever. So the first interview, I was like, okay. It started out as an interview and I'm like, cool. And then towards the end, I'm like, this guy is just trying to collect as much information as possible. We're not really interviewing for position anymore. And so then part two was a little bit weird 'cause it was like totally into CMS migration which is not really an SEO thing. Anyway, so there's some of this email and it was like, check our website and then put together a strategy for how you would do a CMS migration. But it was for their website, like not a client, not a fake website, their website. So I'm just like, this sounds like free consulting but it was really vague, okay? And so I started working on it. I'm going to be honest with you. This kind of seemed like a little bit shady to me. I'm not going to do free consulting, you know? So I roughly started to put together a very, very high level outline. I'm talking like less than a page, okay? Like, I'm like, I'm not really feeling this. But I had a question, I had a question about it. So I emailed them and I don't remember what the question was and I don't remember what the response was but the response was rather ambiguous. And so what is like a rule that I've told you guys in the past? Not an SEO rule, but like a rule just like generally. If you ask a specific question and get a vague answer, the person is probably not serious and they're just trying to fool you with something, okay? So here I am with that vague answer to my specific question and like, I'm just like, okay, like I really don't want to do this anymore. So, but that's not where the story ends because like a day later, I was like, you know what? I'm like, I don't care. I'm just going to do this like a little bit. I want to be very clear though. I was maybe like halfway done at this point and completely like low interest at this point. And so I emailed them. I was like, how about next, I was like, how about next Tuesday? We meet and we go over this and I never heard back from them again. So I was like, okay, well that's cool. Glad I didn't do this project anyway. So in conclusion to this, I apologize. The story was really boring. It sounded cool in my head, but it was boring when I just told it right now. Anyway, don't do free work as part of an SEO job interview, like probably, I don't know. So this is what I would do. If I wanted to see an applicant's knowledge, I would make a fake website and have them do an analysis on that, right? Because then there's no confusion that, oh, they're just secretly using this and not telling us. But like, then who cares? Like make a fake website and then have them do, I don't know, that's what I would do. But here's the thing. I could also talk to somebody for like 10 or 15 minutes and know if they understand SEO or not. I wouldn't need to see like, I would probably say, okay, this next question is going to be 15 minutes long. Tell me about your analysis process. And then I would listen to them talk for like 12 minutes. And then the last three minutes, I'd probably ask them a couple questions. And I believe I would grasp if they understood SEO or not at the end of that. I wouldn't need to be like, do what analysis? 'Cause everybody's just gonna use some like tool anyway, right? They're gonna post online and they're gonna say, guys, I need to do an analysis. What tool should I use? And then they're just gonna copy and paste the results and nobody's gonna learn anything. And it's not really going to achieve anything, is it? But anyway, like it just, I'm not really complaint, I'm kinda complaining. But I didn't wanna be on a CMS migration project anyway. Like I don't feel like that's a good use of my talents as far as SEO goes. So it didn't even sound fun, honestly. And people are gonna be like, you mad 'cause you didn't get your job. No, it sounded like a boring project that I didn't wanna do anyway. So yeah. So anyway, on to the next interview. So, okay, next interview is with a company, right? Not an agency, like a company that wanted me to do their SEO. Same as the less company. This, I actually got pretty happy when I read the job description because it literally talked about backlinks. And I'm like, you guys wanna talk about backlinks? I'm the person to talk to you. I was ready for this interview. So anyways, all the questions were about content. Content this, content that, we're not ranking. It's a content problem, blah, blah, blah. And finally at the end, I got kind of annoyed. And I'm like, look, we've talked a lot about content, but content isn't really a ranking factor. And he's like, what do you mean? I think I was talking to, this is a small, small company. I think I was talking to the owner of the company. And I'm like, content is not a ranking factor in the way that you're describing it. I'm like, let me just say this, okay? Most of what you have been doing has been related to content, but you're not ranking. That's why I'm in this interview in the first place, okay? So if the things that you're doing are not having the results you want, don't you think that maybe that's because you're not doing them correctly? And he's like, well, but you see content is king. And I'm like, dude, seriously, just hold on for a second. I'm like, I'm like, talk to me. I'm like, I'm asking questions now. I'm like, I'm like, talk to me about backlinks. I'm like, what do you know about backlinks? And he's like, well, it's really hard to get good backlinks because then he gave me all these reasons. And I'm like, okay, but what if it wasn't? I'm like, what if you had your own, I basically talked to him about like having a PBN, right? And he's like, hmm, well, thanks for meeting with me today. And I'm like, okay, dude, whatever. Like this is the reason that you're not ranking. Could I have been more professional? Yes, I could have. Okay, next interview. So this next interview was at an agency, okay? This is going to be, I hope you learned something from this. So at this agency, you know, they were asking me all the normal questions. They're asking me a lot of behavioral questions. Tell me about a time that you're working on a team and you had a disagreement. Tell me about a time that you had a client and they disagreed with you. Tell me about a time that you were working with a client and they decided to make a change after the deadline for the changes, but they wouldn't let you change the delivery date. How did you handle it, Bob? Like all those questions, those questions. If just hearing those questions annoyed you, you're in good company because those questions are annoying, okay? I mean, they're important. However, they are annoying. So anyway, let me tell you why I think I failed this interview and I didn't fail it, but well, you'll see what I mean. So it's going very well. It's a panel interview. There were like two people there. And finally, it got to a question where it was like, it was something like, tell us about a difficult client that you had or client who wanted to make unreasonable changes or like one of those type of questions, right? And I do not recall the question precisely 'cause it was a while ago, okay? It was like over a year ago. I'm not quite remembering it, okay. So you guys remember maybe the episode called The Best and Worst Clients I've Ever Had and what I learned from them. So I started talking to them about the worst client I've ever had and I'm not gonna summarize it for her. You can go listen to that episode. So the point is, I said at the end, I said look, we decided that it was time for us to go our separate ways. And her expression switched from like complete happiness and being very satisfied with my answers to like one of complete apprehension. And she got like really, really intense. And she's like, what do you mean? You decided it was time to go your separate ways. And I'm like, and I'm sitting here and I'm saying to myself, I'm like, what do you mean? Like this client was one, like being extremely rude, two, wasting our resources and our time, three, micromanaging us on every step of the project and four, demanding things that we're not even agreed upon when we were talking before we started working together. So of course, and you guys, I'm not gonna get into the whole thing here. Like literally go listen to that episode if you wanna know about this client, it's episode six. The best and worst clients I've ever had and what I learned from them. And I'm gonna be honest with you, that this whole thing happened like seven years ago and I still stand by my decision to no longer work with that client. So I was like, I'm like, we decided it wasn't a good fit for us to work together anymore. And it was like, whoa. She went from being very cheerful and happy to like acting as if I had just offended her. And like the other person in the interview was like silent this whole time. And I'm like, so sometimes it's not a good fit for clients and agencies. And it's best that you don't stay together if it's not gonna work, it's just like a relationship. I'm like, I'm like, I'm happy to go. I'm like, this is a big deal. I'm like, I'm happy to go into this any further if you want. And she's like, yes, please do. And I'm like, well, you know, as I told you, they were like demanding that we do all of this non SEO stuff, but not gonna pay us anymore. And like making all these changes. And after the fact, after the contract had been signed, okay, they decided that we were supposed to do all this other stuff. And I'm like, no, like that's not how it works. You know, we can renegotiate if you want, but those things that you're asking about, they're not even SEO. And I'm like, the client got very frustrated and rude. And I'm like, I'm not gonna, it wasn't, I'm like, look, it wasn't a good fit. And so anyway, I think that in, in high, by the way, I still agree with my answer that that's the correct response in that case, right? Like disagree all you want, that's fine. But I'm telling you, if you have a client that's a bad fit, it's better to not have them as a client, okay? Anybody who's been in business will tell you that too. The only people that will not tell you that are probably people you shouldn't listen to, all right? I'm not sure how else to explain it. But look, I'm possibly wrong on this, I'm not sure. But I'm pretty sure that I never even heard back from them. Like sometimes if a company doesn't wanna hire you, they will still like email you and tell you, okay? But I'm pretty sure when this interview is over, I literally never heard back from them again, which is pretty unprofessional, but I'm not judging. So anyway, but anyways, here's what I think happened, the lady interviewing me. I think her job was somehow this job where you get in trouble if you lose clients, okay? And so when I told her that, I mean, it's my agency, I can make whatever decisions I want, but I told her that we decided not to work with a client anymore because it wasn't helping either party, right? I think that she cannot allow that to happen. And so she's like, we don't wanna work with this guy because he might like, you know, he's okay with losing, like they didn't say this. I'm literally just like presuming here, but she's like, you know, he was okay with losing the client and that's like, you can't lose a client, you can't ever lose a client. So it's like, I don't know, I don't wanna work there anyway, like whatever. Anyways, so it was that, and by the way, my answer was still correct, and I'm gonna say it again, if you have a bad client, stop working with them, okay? If you're in a bad relationship, let's take a step back from SEO for a second. If you're in a bad relationship, stop being in that relationship, assuming you can exit safely, right? Like that's good advice for life, okay? So anyway, I wouldn't wanna work at a place where it was my responsibility to tolerate unprofessionalism from demanding clients, like that's literally, literally not my job, like even at my own agency, that's still not my job, like, you wanna be rude to me? Go find another agency, like, bye. Anyways, so that's why that one didn't work. Okay, on to the next interview. So this company was awesome, and I'm totally real with you. Of all the companies that I interviewed with, this was the only one that I even wanted to work for, okay? What can I say? They were, let's call them an app startup company. I can say that, okay. They were an app, and they were a startup. So anyway, I went to their website to find out more about them. So anyways, like, I'm actually not kidding though, because like, sometimes you will be asked, so why do you wanna work for us? And like, you can't just be like, oh, 'cause I need money. You gotta know why you wanna work for the company, so, you know, view the website before the interview, so you know something about the company. Anyway, basic interview skills, but I feel like people don't know that, so I just told you. So anyway, okay, so I get there, and they're like, why do you wanna work for us? And I actually had a good story, and I'm not gonna share it with you, 'cause I don't want anyone using my answers, because you can't take these answers from someone else, okay? But I had a good answer, which they loved, and then we immediately went into the SEO stuff. Blah, blah, blah, blah, all the SEO questions, until finally this point in the interview, and this was a great, this was a great interview, okay? So there was a panel, it was two women, and one of them said, okay, here's your next question, so we have a page on our site that we wanna rank for certain keywords, and it's not ranking, what changes would you make to the page? And I said, okay, I comprehend your question, I'm like, I do not mean to be rude, but I need to stop you, because you're not asking the right question. You guys, I am not recommending that you ever say this in a job interview, okay? But this is what I said. I said, what you asked was not the right question. I said, I'm gonna answer your question, but then I'm gonna give you the correct answer afterwards, okay, and they're like, okay, so anyways, I almost thought that maybe it was a trick question, okay? So I went into it, and I just basically explained about authority, like this has been explained in the podcast numerous times, but I explained about authority and relevancy, and how long is there's no penalty on the site, it is unlikely that content is the reason you're not ranking, and so if you're not ranking, it's not a content issue, it's an authority issue, and as I was saying this, the other woman in the interview, not the one that asked me with the other woman there, 'cause it was like, I could see both of them, right? She was like nodding her head and smiling, and I'm like, yes, this woman understands SEO, this is the only person I have talked to in this entire ordeal that understands SEO. I've skipped over a lot of the questions that the other people asked, but they were all loosely related to content as king, how are you gonna write content for us? And I'm just like, you guys can probably guess what my answers were to those questions. So anyway, I'm like, yes, this is awesome, and the more I explained about authority, the more she was smiling. She's like, that was a phenomenal answer, and I'm like, thank you, so anyway, the interview continued to go wonderfully after that, and I ended up having two interviews with them, and at the end, the second interview was like with the founder of the company and somebody else, the question that I just gave you may have actually been from that interview I can't remember, but at the end, you guys, this is so bizarre to me. The founder of the company goes, the job is yours if you want it. She's like, but I have to have HR send an official document over to you 'cause they get mad if we offer people positions without running it through them or something along those lines. And I'm like, sounds, I'm like, awesome, I'm like, well, I'm looking forward to that email, right? And then oddly enough, the next day, they rescinded the offer, I literally, you guys, I literally got an email that said somebody internally decided to take the position, thanks for interviewing with us anyway. And I was like, really? Like the founder of the company offered me the position, and then the next day, you guys are gonna change your mind, I'm like, whatever, it doesn't matter. Anyways, but I was kind of annoyed 'cause that was actually the only company that I wanted to work for, like out of all of them. I know I said there were six, and I think I only went through four of them, but the rest, for the most part, there was nothing really that you need to know about any of them. But I will tell you, let me just continue to talk about SEO interviews for a little bit, okay. So, they're, like literally, I'm not joking when I say this, that like more than 50% of the questions were content is king, how are you gonna write good content? Search engines love good content, how do you write good content? Tell us about why content is important. And I'm just like, you guys, I'm like, that's wrong. I'm like, don't say it this way. And I didn't say it this way either. But I'm like, you guys, I feel like maybe there's a little confusion as to the manner in which SEO happens, because none of those things that you're saying really make any sense. I'm like, you've been doing these things, and they're not working. Why are you gonna keep trying them? And they're like, well, because the search engines like content, and I'm like, don't you already have good content? Never mind. Anyway, here's the thing, no, let me, so I know that somebody listening is gonna be like, grumpy SEO guy, you should have just said it anyway, you should have just said content is king, you should tell them that, and then they would hire you. No, let me tell you why, because if I did that, okay, like the first thing that's gonna happen is they're gonna, I would get hired, and I'd get in there, and they'd be like, hmm, write the good content for us. And then when content is not king, okay, and they don't rank for anything, they're gonna be mad. They're gonna be like, why aren't you ranking? You're supposed to be really good at SEO, and we're not ranking, and the answer to why they're not ranking is because all you're doing is writing content, and that's not a ranking strategy. So that's why I'm not gonna say that. It's just like when I'm on a call with a prospect, and remember, a prospect is somebody that has not given you money yet, so it's not a client. I mentioned this before, but I feel like sometimes there's a little bit of ambiguity with these terms. A client is somebody giving you money, and a prospect is somebody that can become a client, okay? So prospect is a person you're talking to, and a client is somebody who is giving you money. So anyway, when I'm on a call with a prospect, because they haven't paid me, okay, I don't say things that would sound good just to get paid, or just so they hire me, because that would be dumb, okay? Don't say things that aren't true just to get money. That's called being terrible at business. By the way, a lot of people do that. That's why the SEO industry is terrible, and many others, too. But, so I'm just telling you, you should probably avoid doing that. Oh, you got problems with your website? Oh, we'll fix those for you. Oh yeah, oh yeah, web design, that's part of our process. You should not say that unless it actually is, okay? So when somebody's like, how are you gonna write the good content and make this rank? I'm not gonna answer that question, because that's not how SEO works, and it's not going to work, okay? And then if I get the job and then it doesn't work, because in six or 12 months or whatever, they're not ranking any better than they were, then they're gonna be like, well, you said that you were really good, blah, blah, blah. No, I want to be on record as having said content will not make you rank, so that when it doesn't, they know that they can come back to me, or whatever, and learn how SEO actually works, all right? You can do it your way, that's my way. Anyway, here's some more general job advice. Not necessarily for SEO, but whatever. Okay, so here's how it works. You should definitely, and I apologize if this is basic advice. I'm not an expert job interviewer, okay? I'm also not an HR person, so this might not be true, but it's what I've been told from my friends who actually do work in HR, 'cause I was literally on the phone with them. I'm like, guys, I have interviews coming up, which I'm like, I have an interview, and I have an interview in over a decade. I'm like, how does it work nowadays? And I got some good advice from them, so I'm gonna share it with you. Okay, this is, again, basic stuff, but I'm just gonna mention anyway, 'cause I'm sure that there are people out there who have never had an interview, and want to make sure that they perform their best. Okay, so, number one, in an interview, always have some questions for them at the end of the interview. The way interviews work is they ask you a lot of questions, and then at the end, they will say, so, what questions do you have, or something along those lines, okay? You need to have questions. If you say, oh, I don't have any, you're not gonna get the job, and that might seem silly to you, but that's how it works, okay? So, have some questions, do not have them be like generic questions. Like, well, tell me about the benefits. Come on, that's not, that's a generic question that you want your questions to be specific to this company, okay? So, maybe take something that you heard during the interview, and follow up on that. Again, I'm not gonna give you a list of these questions, because I'm not really sure what your interview process was like, but have some, have three questions. If you don't get to them, that's fine, okay? But have at least three questions, because if you ask two, and they say, do you have any more, and you say no, you seem uninterested, okay? Have at least three questions. That's my advice, have at least three questions, okay. Have a response ready for their question of what makes you wanna work here, or why this company, or how come you wanna work for us? Or anything like that, have an answer, have a specific answer specific to their business, okay? If you do not do this, you are not getting the job. Like, period, okay? Nope, because on the one hand, I agree with you if you think it's annoying. Like, 100% I agree with you, okay? But it's like, imagine somebody's like, imagine you like, I don't know, this is like the weirdest scenario, but imagine you're gonna go on a date with somebody, and they're like, so why do you wanna date me? Do you need an answer to that question, right? The person needs to feel valuable. Like, the company wants to know that you wanna work with them, and you're not just like, filling a space, like on your resume or something, right? Like, why do you wanna work for us? Well, I don't have a job right now, and no, you're not gonna get hired, right? Why do you wanna work for us? Well, you guys did this, and this, and this other thing, and I really like the way the blah, blah, blah, and I've seen what you do with this, and I really think that I could like benefit since blah, blah, blah, blah about me. That's a good answer, or it's probably a bad answer, honestly, but it's better than being like, whoa, I'm not working right now, I'm like kinda running out of money, that's the wrong, like that might be the reason, but no. Here's my other advice for you, okay? In many cases, but not all cases. Interview number one might be with an HR person, not with an SEO person. HR means human resources, if you have never heard that acronym before, okay? In that case, you do not necessarily need to go into precise details about all the things, right? Because the HR person doesn't care, and they also don't know the answers to the questions, right? Like, if you're talking to an HR person, and you're like, whoa, here's the thing about websites, you see the words on the page don't matter, and it's all about the authority, like the HR person doesn't care, because they're in HR, their job is to verify that you're not insane, and that you like have all your things in order, and can get onto the actual interview, okay? Just, again, probably obvious to like, the majority of the people listening to this, but there's that person who has not had a job interview ever, and they're gonna get on there, and they're gonna be like, thank you for meeting with me, I'm so and so in HR, and they're gonna be like, I love SEO, I listened to all the grumpy SEO guide podcasts, I know all about backlinks, and they're gonna be like, okay, cool, what? Because, trust me, like, so answer the question that was asked, except for if you're me, and they're asking you what changes you should make to the content, then you can answer a different question. I'm joking, don't do it that way, but actually you might want to, but don't, anyway, but I'm kidding too, here's some more SEO job advice. If they ask you a question that is very polarizing, okay, which will probably happen, I guarantee you almost that you will plausibly get some questions about content as king, how are you gonna change this content? How do you write good content? Listen, a large aspect of this job is content creation. How do you ensure that the content you write will be liked by the search engines? You are feasibly going to get a question like that, probably multiple questions like that. If you insist on giving the correct answer, okay, actually, not joking here, if you insist on giving the correct answer, which is that changing content is not the way to change your rank, ooh, that's good, changing content is not the way to change your rank, except there's cases where that is the case, but usually it's not. So, anyway, this is how I would phrase it. I actually just did a Zoom call with somebody a couple days ago who had an SEO job interview, and they wanted to go over a couple things, and I was like, cool, so we hopped on Zoom, and I helped them out, and they seemed very smart and prepared, so, anyways, here's the thing. And I mention this because this is what I told that person. I said, if they ask you a question like that, this is what you should say. I would say something like, listen, there's kind of two answers to that question. First, I'm gonna give you the general answer that most people will give you, and then I'm gonna give you the correct answer, okay? And then phrase it like that, and then so mention one, and mention the other, and then kind of bring them all back together at the end and talk about how content and authority work together to rank, okay? That's the correct way to answer that question. Don't just be like, no, it's not how it works. See, content is not a rank factor, and EEAT is not a thing, and blah, blah, blah, and I'm just like, all right, cool. So, probably don't do it that way, but do it the way that I told you to do it, because that's a good way to A, demonstrate your knowledge, and B, be professional. So anyways, here's the other thing, though, and you truthfully need to understand this. I generally say that most SEO agencies and consultants do not really understand SEO. This was so apparent to me in these interviews, because the questions that they were asking were not even good SEO questions. I got so tired of being asked, you know, change our content so we rank better. Like, that's not how it works, you know? Look, I'm happy to help you guys rank better, but changing content's not the answer, and if you can't defend and justify that reason, you're not gonna get hired, and furthermore, if you do correctly defend and justify that answer, you probably will not get hired, because if they're asking that question, okay, unless they're asking it to you as a trick question, right? But they're probably not. They are looking for a contentist king answer, and if you don't tell them content is king, they're gonna think that you're some shifty person who does black hat SEO, and they're not gonna hire you. I'm just putting that out there. So, that's my advice. I guess what I'm ultimately saying is most SEO agencies are not worth working for, because if you talk to them, their turnover is ridiculous, because they can't get results, and as soon as the contracts end, and remember all SEO contracts are scammy, as soon as they end, the clients leave, because they're not ranking any better, why aren't they ranking any better? Because all their agency did was write content, so, there's that. So, but the thing that was just like, that was mind-blowing to me. Look, I understand if a company is asking questions about content, because maybe they don't really comprehend how SEO works, and so they did a little looking into it, and they read some blogs that said content is king, and they said, okay, I'm gonna ask questions about content is king, 'cause I wanna make sure that I hire somebody who understands it, okay, that's fine. That's understandable, okay? But an agency should not be asking questions about why would content make you rank. If you have done SEO, if you have done even one project of SEO, there is no way that you could think content is king. The fact that agencies are hiring people based on content is king, makes me very, very depressed about the SEO industry, which is exactly what I thought before I went on these interviews, so literally no shocker there, but just saying. Anyway, oh, I just remembered, I think somebody did ask me once about guest posting in an interview, and I think I mentioned, I'm like, what if instead of having to rely on guest posting, you could just do it yourself with your own portfolio of sites, and I could feel like their mind was starting to open, but then they're just like, yeah, no, we just do guest posting sometime, and I'm just like, but it's not working for you. (laughs) I don't think I said it that way, but anyways, but like, I can't even wait for the emails, people are gonna write, they're gonna be like, grumpy SEO guy, you guys are wrong, answers are stupid, content is king. Whatever, that's cool, anyway. Whatever, it's my advice. You guys, here's a bonus, here's a bonus for you, sorry, I'm recording this as I'm looking, I just found a Google document with some questions that I got asked. Okay, I'm gonna read these to you. This is anonymous, is this anonymous? I'm just gonna read you these questions, ready? Here you go, if you made it all the way to the end of this episode, and you didn't end it early, here are the questions, I'm just gonna read you these, ready? Okay, part one, A, what is one of your favorite SEO tools and why? B, explain one process you use your favorite SEO tool to do most often. C, briefly describe your experience with SEO reporting to clients. D, what is the best link you have ever got? Oh, maybe it is that one I talked about. D, what is the best link you have ever got? Explain why it was the best link and how you got it. Part two, technical task, go here and answer the following. A, please investigate and detail three technical SEO issues with their website. B, provide recommended solutions for fixing these issues. C, order these issues in order of priority and complexity. D, how long did this task take you? E, please detail any techniques, sources of inspiration or processes used for this task. Part three, optimization task. Go here and answer the following, and then there's a link. A, please detail three optimizations you would do to increase organic traffic to this page. And then I wrote like a novel basically, and B, order these in order of priority. C, how long did this task take you? D, please detail any techniques, sources of inspiration or processes that you used for this task. That was it, I hope these were helpful. Actually, upon looking at these questions again, this does seem a lot like free consulting. I can't believe that I didn't comprehend that at the time. So I guess my reason for making this podcast is to teach you guys the things that I did not comprehend the first time. So anyway, when it said go here and look at this website and you know, report back with the stuff that you would do to it or whatever, it was like a website. And I'm pretty sure it was one of their clients' website now that I think about it. It might have been a fake website, I'm not sure. But then the second question was like for their own website. And it was basically like, what changes would you make to our website? And I'm just like, upon looking at it now, like, yeah, that seems like some shade ball, like free consulting stuff, especially because my responses were great. And like, maybe I'll do another episode and read you what my responses were to those questions. I mean, I didn't even get a call back from them. So clearly they're not the right answers. However, I'm pretty sure that nobody got a call back because now that I really think about it, this seems a lot like they were just trying to do to get some free consulting to tell them how to fix their client's website, which again, would not be unheard of because we're talking about SEO here and people tend to be maybe not so trustworthy in the SEO industry. So anyway, there you go. I thought I'm still looking through my Google docs. I really thought that I had, there's one that literally took like 45 minutes to do what was ridiculous. All right, I guess that's the only one. I hope those questions were helpful. I've thought about reading my answers, but then I didn't, 'cause I don't want somebody to copy my answers. Like the purpose of this episode is not to give you answers to use. The purpose of this episode is to help you understand what might happen if you are applying for an SEO job. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to subscribe. And if you enjoy this podcast, please leave a review. It would really help the show out. I hope this episode was helpful. If you have any questions or wanna suggest a subject for a future episode, you can contact me on Reddit. My username is grumpyscoguy. You can visit the Grumpy SEO Guy subreddit or you can email me at hello@grumpyscoguy.com. If you email me, please either whitelist my email address or check your junk folders, because I've been told that my replies are going into the junk folder and it's probably because we're talking about things like SEO and backlinks. And I think those words will classify an email as spam. And if you wanna support the podcast, because it's the best source of SEO information on the planet and it's free, you can do so at patreon.com/grumpyscoguy. And I will talk to you later. You're listening to Grumpy SEO Guy, the SEO podcast that doesn't waste your time of nonsense that doesn't work. Join us next Wednesday when we talk about the fact that duplicate content is not a penalty. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (dramatic music)