[MUSIC] >> Good morning, Joe Sportsnet 5.9 of the van. Ben and his Brent Gunning, so I like to learn things. I got them open to learning. >> Okay. >> I absolutely am. I hope to learn one new thing every day. >> Mm, don't you? >> Do you feel like you accomplished? Like if I had to just ask you like percentage of days that you feel you accomplished that of learning one new thing every day. >> I think that's true. Now it's not always like the most significant thing, but like, hey, what's the best mentality to go into certain things or, yeah, no, is it always correct? >> No. >> Okay, all right. Sometimes you learn falsehoods. >> Yeah, and then the day after I might be like, I learned that that was wrong. >> All right. >> Yeah, no, it's a low bar of like what could be learned. That's it. >> All right. >> But if you're just learning little things every day, whole year of that's 365 little things. >> What if it's a leap year? >> Yeah, well, that's 366, yeah. Anyways, so we're learning things about the Blue Jays this year, yeah. Some of the things should have been obvious. Some of the things should have been learned, you know, last offseason. But during the season, we are also learning things, and I'll put my hand up. I've learned some things about this Blue Jays team. Some of it's depressing. >> Yeah. >> Some of it is good. I think the number one thing that I've learned this season, and maybe to some people, this is obvious. It was not obvious to me. I did learn this this year as that Vlad is worth giving all the money to. >> Yep. >> Like that, I learned that. You might have said I knew 2021 was in that guy, and I've heard people say that. I thought it was possible. >> Yep. >> For him to re-achieve those heights. I also watched the subsequent three years, and I wondered where it went. And specifically last season, that was a bit of a head scratcher, and I did think that maybe building your team around a $30 million first baseman who has an OPS of 780 is probably not the best idea. Now, building your baseball team around a $30 million corner infielder, who has an OPS over 900. >> That's a little different. >> It is a little different. That's the number one thing I've learned this season. >> Yep. Number one with a bullet that has to be there. I would say for me, this wasn't so much learning it for me, but it was relearning it. Like, do you ever read something a long time ago, or you saw a stat, and then you have to go back and dig through and find it, and then you clarify. That is how I feel about the Vlad situation. This is not like completely new information, and like you said, there's nothing we unearth. This, I don't know, when he was like given whatever his signing bonus was, 16 years old, that was when we started to unearth it. But yeah, for me, that is far and away number one with a bullet. It's also the thing that just flat out matters the most. Having a guy that you can bank on, cornerstone of the franchise, you could sign him up. So yes, number one with a bullet for me, it was right there. This is the other one for me that I didn't, this wasn't so much a learned fact, but it was like a hardening of my belief on something. One prevention alone is no way to live. It's no way to live. I've been learning that for a couple of years, but yes, no way to live for this team. The idea of, well, I mean, God, Dalton Varsha, the way he just patrols that center field. Yes, that's nice. Yes, I like that. I also like the thing he did earlier in the year when he hit the ball over the fence a whole bunch of times. So that for me was the thing that, again, I was kind of like leaning towards this. I was becoming enlightened on it, but it truly became a man of knowledge on this subject this year that run prevention alone. No way to live. Yeah. That one seems obvious, but go back to a season ago where they ended up with 89 wins on the strength of run prevention and pitching, right? Like that. It was kind of a way for them to live a season ago and you're like, yeah, just a little more run scoring and point. Then you really got something, but the Blue Jays are only in this spot because of the pitching and defense. But I think this, this season has put it in stark relief that, okay, if you really do have elite pitching and elite defense, but even that, like the Mariners with their major league best ERA, they're going to miss the playoffs because they don't score enough runs. Yeah. To that point, the other thing should have hung on to T. Oscar, who said that before? Well, that, that one, I think was, was learned before this season. I was meeting for them. Yeah. Blue Jays need another huge bat, like that's obvious. And something more than even a Justin turn, like they need somebody who is foundational when it comes to power. And this one, I did know a little bit more than I'm letting on. I did. I thought JD Martinez would have been the better option for the Blue Jays if they were going to go down the pure DH route, which Justin Turner was, he did not provide enough home run power. But yeah, I think maybe a better way to phrase this is the, the player that they target and there should be multiple, but the players that they target should be of the offensive profile where like home runs are their thing. It's like the other stuff is good too, if you can do it all, if you can hit for average and get on base and the idea, yeah, yeah, but that's secondary to hitting a home run. If you can hit a home run, you should be on the Blue Jays radar this off season. I wholeheartedly agree with that. My next one kind of goes lockstep in what you were saying there. It's, well, it's actually not complete agreement with you, but it's tied into what you said. I am done with the world of strictly DHs for the Blue Jays and I know they like tried to fame like, no, Justin Turner could play up as a. Okay, come on. You know what he was who's strictly a DH with all of the capable bodies. And it's like maybe they're barely capable, but there are other options to be had here and you cannot lock yourself in a world with Vlad, who's going to need a day or two office feet and aging George Graham. We've just, we've done all this before. You need to have more flexibility there. So yes, 1000% does, does Vlad need to put it, to put it bucks away, a power partner? Yes, he absolutely does. That guy, he better be Barry Bonds if he is going to be a strictly DH because anything less than that, I need the guy and it's not that I need him in a particular position. I just need to have the ability to cycle through that spot and keep guys fresh. So that is another thing for me of just no more pure DHs unless it is basically your clone and plaid. And he's only only a DH. So you have to be that level of hitter, honestly. Yeah, somebody who can at least in a pinch play a defensive position. Okay. Yeah. Taosker Hernandez can. Yeah. He can credibly play corner, outfield spot, Anthony Santon there. Same thing. Same deal. But that's fine. They'll both spend some time at DH. But the other thing I learned and I get maybe this is maybe I'm dumb, maybe maybe you all knew this, maybe maybe I'm the dumb one. But the old George Springer's not coming back. Like that's it. It's it. Okay. Last season. I knew that awhile ago. Yeah. Last season with a league average OPS OPS plus of 102, who's 2% above league average with the 732 OPS, but at the long slump and kind of rectified his season and hit 21 home runs. And you know what? He's going to hit 20 home runs again this year, but we're now talking about a guy who's in his mid 30s. He's going to be, Oh, well, it's almost his birthday. September 19th. He's going to be 35 years old who's had like a pretty obvious decline 2021 907 OPS 202814 OPS 2023 732 and then this season 684 that that they say progression is not always linear. Yeah. Regression not always linear, but sometimes it is sometimes what a guy is in his mid 30s. And he puts together four consecutive years that are worse than the last. You should maybe believe that that father time comes for us all and it has come for George Springer and he can continue to lead off this year because nothing matters and it's just a bunch of young dudes behind him. But there's in no world like if George Springer is leading off next season, it's either with the understanding that, okay, George, if you believe that you're going to resurrect yourself and be the guy that you were previously, you get like a two week runway here and then you're out of the lead off spot or you failed miserably in the off season because the blue J's need more than a 94 OPS plus out of the lead off spot. If they want to be a capable offense in 2025, I hate it because I'm an aged person, but George Springer is too aged to reverse the clock here as a guy who's like several days younger than George Springer. That one hurts me particularly. So yeah, I echo all of that. This is one I had to unlearn something I learned in the beginning of the season. And now I know to be true, I regret to inform everyone who is a burrios is no ace. Sorry, like I have my dalliances last year and beginning of the season thinking, what exactly is this guy? What could he be? Is there a little more there than what we've seen? Is he more than just the guy who takes the ball every fifth day and gives you pretty close to 200 innings every year? Is there a little more ceiling there? I really believed there was and I don't know that there is. I think this is the guy he is, he's going to have his month occasionally where, yeah, he looks like an ace and feels like an ace, but generally speaking, he's going to regress back to this of a fine number two, number three, not number three. I mean, three is a luxury if you have a guy like that, but a number two starter. And it's unfortunate because he's kind of got to be the ace of this team. Yeah. He's having the best season of any of the big three starters. And as ER is three, five, two, it is the same ERA he had in 2021 when he finished ninth and Cy Young award voting, right? So that's good. That's really good. Very good. But in this city, we've seen aces. There's being a number one starter on a staff, which I think he still gets the ball opening day in 2025, unless Blue Jays go out and really make some noise with like a Blake Snell signing or something. But yeah, no, he's going to start opening day and next season and you're happy to have them in the rotation. But yeah, we saw, well, Roy Halliday, we saw Roger Clemens, but more recently, we saw both Alec Manoa and Kevin Gossman. Yes. Those were a seasons those guys had. So you can be an opening day starter. You can be the leader of a rotation. But the idea of being an ace, yeah, I'm with you. Jose Barrios is no ace. Oh, sorry. I forgot to inform him. Yeah, there were, I mean, when the trade was consummated, I remember talking specifically to Ricky Romero, and he said this guy's going to be winning an American League Cyung Award, which I mean, he wasn't the only guy saying that. And yeah, that seems like it's probably not going to happen to the point about the rotation. And yeah, this is, I think everybody's to the spot, at least now. You learned that Bowdoin Francis is in the rotation to start next season. I don't care about spring training results or who you go out and acquire. Even if it's multiple guys that are capable of being major league starters, it doesn't matter. You have to start barring injury 2025 with Bowdoin Francis in the rotation. It's over. Okay. Just as I thought it was over last season with the way David Schneider bounced back like yet, incredible start and then had a little slump. And then back to being David Schneider, albeit in a small sample, but 30 games, I learned that he had to at least start the season on the roster in 2024. And he did. And I thought he should have been given more opportunity, which he was. And you know what? Maybe I'll double dip here because I had it. Get in again. I think you've also learned that, yeah, okay, all I was asking for was to give him a shot and see what David Schneider is. Yeah. I think at this point, you've seen enough of a sample that, okay, maybe David Schneider can configure it out and be a rosterable piece for somebody else or even this Blue Jays team down the line barring like, well, not barring. If there's a number of injuries on this Blue Jays team, but David Schneider is an everyday player, which I maybe I was alone with thinking this was true. I thought there was a possibility that David Schneider was not just like a reasonable option at second base in left field against righties and lefties, but I thought you were going to be pretty happy with the level of production you got. I've learned that that's no longer the case, like there is just no world where honestly he's on the 26 man roster to start 2025. This isn't something the season taught me. This was something that doing the show with you taught me is that you were alone on that every single baseball person, like even the ones who try to be nice about almost everything were like, well, but I mean, he is David Schneider Ben. So I learned that you were alone there. I should have learned this via Alec Manoa. I now have definitively learned this via Boboshette. They're in a damn thing promised in this world. Nothing is ever bankable on. Beshette was the most undisputed just like with the place him and Vladarad. It was clear as day that was the guy you could bank on and I'm not writing him off. I haven't learned that Boboshette is not worth the money he's going to command or anything like that. I'm not there, but just the idea of the season going the way it did and part of it is injuries, but so much of it wasn't so much of it was maybe a guy playing through something sure, but he was playing felt he was healthy enough to do it. It's just that was as repeatable a star as you had in this city from the get go. I mean, like, I love to do the Leafs and J's comparisons there. It's like Boboshette was as consistent as anything we'd seen in the regular season out of those leaf stars in terms of production and everything. And it just wasn't here. And do I expect in the bounce back, yes, your next year, 1000% I do, but the outlier season, it's always lurking out there. So that is what I learned. Yeah. Yeah, there's there's nobody outside a mic trout when he was healthy that you can consistently my trout still consistent, though. Yeah, consistently. It matters. Yeah. No doubt that yeah, there was nobody more consistent than Boboshette even after slow starts like he had in 2022 he resurrected the numbers the end of the year, you were going to be able to pencil them in for an OBS north of 800 and yeah, he is season was derailed because of injury, but he is bad before he got injured. All right. Last one. And maybe this is just recency bias, but life of a reliever. I mean, when when Chad Green was like what 12 for 12 and save opportunities, I was like, okay, you're looking for relief arms because it's bullpen's garbage, but you don't necessarily have to put yourself in a spot where you're going out and getting somebody you feel good about in the ninth inning, because Chad Green is at least proven he's capable of doing that. Now you need a closer. Yes. We have learned this season that not only do you need a complete overhaul of this bullpen, you can't go into next season like the Yankees went into this season with clay homes. You're like, yeah, he's pretty good reliever. Think he can hack it at the back end of the book. No. Sorry, what? Yeah. Thank you. You need somebody and you're never sure. Right. And for sure that Kenley Jansen is going to be another have another season in his late thirties of being a capable closer, but you need to go out and get a closer this off season. I echo all that. This is like a sister one to what you just said. And I don't take this as belief in the player going forward because I have massive question marks. I learned that I was too unkind to Jordan Romano over the past couple of seasons this year. It's like seeing what it looks like when there's really not a closer there. Like, we've done the thing of, and I know you hate it more than any, or maybe not more than anybody, but you push back against the like, well, the saves are a little shaky. Sometimes it's like, yes, it's hard to close out baseball games occasionally a guy gets on base. So I have learned I was too unkind to Jordan Romano and I also want to be clear, do not take that as any belief in me being like, make sure he's the closer next year because I certainly don't feel that way either. No, I don't know. Again, I don't know what you're doing with Jordan Romano that he's not going to pitch in the major leagues again this year and coming off on an arm injury. All right. The NBA season, fast approaching? Yeah, it feels like Raptors are around and warming up and people are talking and a leaf season gets underway first, but then we got the Raptors and it could be an interesting season for them. Certainly feels like there's a lot on the line. Anyways, Demar to Rose and selling a book. So he's doing the rounds, so I got some people, he's making some noise. That's part of it too, right? If you're going to sell a book, don't just go out there and do interviews, say some things that are going to put you in the news cycle. There is kind of a void of sports information at this time of year because Hogg's season hasn't started. NBA season hasn't started. We got football back, but basically all that's going on, major league baseball playoffs hasn't started. He was on first take and said in regards to what would have happened if the Kawhi Leonard Trade had not been consummated this? The Kryptonite for the Toronto Raptors franchise at that particular moment in time was LeBron James, because y'all can't run in until LeBron James. The year he arrived, LeBron James went to LA, so my attitude is had Demar de Rose's stay dead, he had been a champion with the Toronto Raptors. How do you feel about that once you hear something like that? Yeah, never, you know, discredit those guys. I mean, they won it, they deserved it, you know, I finally had got to a point to where, you know, I was happy for them, but for sure, I definitely feel like that, you know, the only person we couldn't beat was LeBron, that was, that's just what it was. And I felt off the year we had before, we just needed one more piece that kind of pushes over the top and that piece came to be LeBron going to the west, you know, and I didn't get the opportunity to see what would have happened, but the utmost confidence within myself, I have no doubt in my mind the same outcome with what would have happened. Okay. Demar is allowed to have that opinion, and he should, I mean, he's a pro athlete. You want to believe you're the best in the world, like, my opportunity hasn't been the same as LeBron James or Steph Curry or, I'm the same level player, sure. That's what you kind of have to have, I don't know, I don't know, self-belief of your professional athletes. But even I smit, like, the idea that any wouldn't would have watched the playoff run in 2019 and think that anybody short of what Kawhi Leonard did, where literally one of the best postseason runs we've ever seen from an individual player and it's only won the series against the sixers because of the most insane rim bounce shot that we've ever seen. Maybe they win an overtime by maybe Kawhi Leonard doing the best version of Kawhi Leonard only barely got the Toronto Raptors to the finish line, seven games against the sixers, six against a Warriors team, even without Clay Thompson and Kevin Durant. The idea, again, Tamar is allowed to have his opinion, and I don't want to say a bad thing about Demar DeRosa because I did just, who doesn't love Demar DeRosa? But this is an opinion that is psychotic and insane, okay? It proves to me that you just did not watch the playoff run because the Raptors were a good team outside of Kawhi Leonard, but not a great team, and they were a great defensive team, and like Mark Gasol, when he solidified the interior defense there, but against the sixers, nobody can make a shot except for Kawhi. No, a thousand percent. I'd actually argue they were like truly a great team with good pieces, right? Like they'd be like Mark Gasol in the way he was able to just instantly mesh with the group and everything. Like it's seen, it came together so seamlessly, and a massive part of that was the guy at the tip of the spear in Kawhi Leonard and knowing you could just kind of defer to him. First things first, like God, Steven A, I thought you were, I didn't, we know he's great at like setting himself up point guard, Steven A, setting Demar up to fall into his trap. He baited him. It was like the debate. He set the bait and he fell for it. It was just, that's the thing is I think that is important context for this is is Demar didn't show up and say, Hey, I want to talk about how the Raptors would have done it with me and instead of Kawhi, like he's being led there to agree with it. It's just, it's so frustrating to hear. And that's the other thing is like, we could talk about LeBron all we want. Do you know who beat LeBron like a handful of times in the peak of his powers? The Warriors who you would have had to play in the, like let's just say Demar is right. And that no LeBron is enough to get them over the hump. I don't know. But pretty scary at the time, so I don't know that that's, that's happening. But let's give him the benefit of the doubt that he's right about that. Then they end up in an NBA finals where it's the de Rosen and Lowry Raptors going against even though without Kevin Durant, Warriors team, no, it's just, I'm sorry guys. It's not. Also, there is something about, and I would imagine I'm trying to think that the teams Demar has played on. I don't know how much he would, he would have of experience with this, but it's like when you have the best player in the world at the time, but on the floor every time, it changes the belief. Like the, what was the favorite story of, all right, let's go to Milwaukee and we'll get one and Kawab standing up in the locker room, which is in and of itself and saying to think of going F that let's get to. Yeah, right. And then it's just like, Demar to Rose, you can't say that because he would have killed for one, quite frankly, and I loathe saying one bad word about Demar. It's like he truly died for our sins, so we could have the championship, never would have happened without him. Never would have happened with him either though. Kawab Leonard is the best defender in the NBA and Demar to Rose and is the mid-range king, right? Yeah. Not the king. I mean, that's, that's Kevin Durant, but like he's incredible in the mid-range, right? Yep. Can't shoot a three can't defend with a lick. No. Also probably not lefty cramming on Janice to close out game six against the box. Probably not. Kawab Leonard Cud, and he was great the entire postseason run, right? The rest of the guys started to pick up the slack, specifically Fred Van Vlade after I had his child and started hitting threes in the Milwaukee series. Yeah. But the Philly series is the one I keep going back to and I have the game log here and it matches what my memory was where it was like 45 points in game one, 35 in game two, 33, 39, 21, 29, and then in games, Evan, only playing 43 minutes and 17 seconds. He took 39 shots and made 40 and scored 41 points, again, playing defense start to finish. Back game seven, there were only two things that worked for the Raptors offensively. And it was just like, get out of Kawab Leonard's way. Yeah. And then occasionally a surge of Baca and Kyle, I'll re-pick and pop up for literally the only two things that worked in that game. There's two highlights from game seven. It's obviously like the rim bounce and it's the surge of Baca. He hit a three. Yes. It's like, was there another Raptor that hit a field goal in that game? Great question. I don't want to look up. I want to live in a world where it was just Kawai and that one shot from surge of Baca. Yeah. Kawai Leonard, well, and tough for Kawai Leonard, like the abuse that he took in that postseason run may have cost him his health for the rest of his career. But that that guy played every game and played 40 minutes a game en route to winning a champion. That clip of him and Lowry, just sitting there in the room and they're like waiting to be interviewed and they're like passing the trophy back and forth to each other and they get up and he's like, I don't got to work no more. I've never God, I have never identified with someone more in my life. It does put it in stark relief though, because that's obviously a seminal moment in Toronto sports history. I think for a lot of people, obviously with the, the, with the north of it all, a forgettable postseason. Totally. Totally. I actually think the shot because of like the rubbing it in Joellen, like that's not about the Raptors. It's about like, remember when Joellen Bied cried, do you remember that? That's what that's more about from like an MBA perspective. Yeah. And it's about Kevin Durant, suffering the Achilles tail and then Canadians who cheered it. Yeah. Yeah, no, they're a bunch of win a franchise championship out there. They played Thompson, but no, it's, it's that is hurtful that people would forget what Kawhi Leonard did. Well, it's weird. Finish in that postseason run. It's weird to me as well because, you know, like obviously the Raptors are a one off like they're the other, the only Canadian team. But I remember as like, you know, not a like child child, but a younger person like holding the Pistons title in such esteem because in a world of all these juggernauts and just like, it's the Lakers and it's whatever. This Pistons team with Ben, Ben Wallace and Rip Hamilton, and Chauncey Billups and Tae Sean Prince. And like, for some reason, Darko Milletchitz was even there. It's like, I loved and revered that team. And it's just so odd to me that people, it's not odd. I guess I should expect it more, but it's just so weird to me that I remember as a kid loving this group that shouldn't have been there and slayed these monsters. And then when it's the Raptors, you're right. It does feel outside of here, obviously, largely forgotten. Yeah. It's because they're the only Canadian friends. Well, and nobody like, and all the guys there were like aged, right? Like outside of Kawhi, it's not like guys playing like a ton of, and even Kawhi, like depending on the day, there's not a ton of guys playing like meaningful basketball from those Raptors teams, right? Like a Baka, Gasol, like you go down the list, like Ben Vliet still poking around for sure, but of the guys that were the most important on that team. I mean, Pascal's the Agamut, the second leading scorer about that, that postseason. I do always forget him. I don't give him enough credit for that. No, he was great. No. Yeah. And matched up against Ramon Green on occasion in that final as well. Anyways, all right. When we come back, we'll talk to John Marosi of MLB Network as the fan morning show continues Ben Ennis-Frank gunning Sportsnet 5.9 of the fans. Big opinions and in-depth conversations covering the Leafs, J's, Raptors, and the NFL. The J.D. Bunkist podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Good morning, Charles, Sportsnet 5.9 of the fan, Ben, Frank Gunning, New York Yankees walking off the Kansas City Royals yesterday in 11 innings. Jazz Chisholm with an infield single to walk it off. Don Soto hit his 39th homer of the season, picked up a couple of RBIs, he's got a hundred. He and Aaron Judge, the first teammates in like forever, to have a hundred RBIs and a hundred walks. I mean, his season has been overshadowed by Aaron Judge's ridiculous season. But Juan Soto is having essentially a career year in New York under the bright lights. He's had a good one already. Right? Yeah. A career year situation, this is a little different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Juan Soto was good, is good, will get paid, Clay Holmes, not so good. He blew his 12th save of the season. The Yankees have already removed him from the closures role, but he blew the save yesterday to the Royals. 12th Saints is ridiculous. So yeah, the back end of the bullpen, perhaps a bit of a question mark for a Yankees team that's headed to the playoffs, but a big win over a Royals team that's battling to get in and has the guy that's going to finish second in MVP voting in Bobby with Junior. John Marosi was there. He of MLB Network joins us now. How's it going, John? Good morning, my friends. Yeah. That was a great ball game. A little bit of a postseason vibe for us last night on MLB Network there with the Yankees and the Royals. Yeah. It's hard to imagine Juan Soto's season going any better for him individually, right? Like as far as the number going up and up and up and up, okay, that there's not like a huge. One big piece of lineup protection, no doubt behind him. But outside of those two, that's not exactly a vaunted Yankees lineup, the bright lights of New York and they've been, they haven't run away and hid in the division. Obviously, they've been going back and forth with the Orioles to put up this type of season. It's hard to imagine another scenario where he could have made more this off season. It's gone about as perfectly for him as you could have possibly hoped if you were Scott Morris. Yes, I completely agree with that, Ben. And we will see what the off season brings. I do think that the overwhelming likelihood is that he stays in New York City with one team or the other. I don't know which one it'll be yet, but it seems to me that when you look at the options in front of them and where the interest will be, obviously, it's going to be very broad interest, but when you consider his comfort level at playing in New York, how much he seems to really love the pinstripes, the Yankees' previous willingness to go top dollar for free agents, you have to put them very firmly in the conversation to retain them. And then if he's going to go anywhere else, you look across town and realize the Mets have really moved beyond what the expectations were for this season. And their owner is perhaps the new Steinbren in terms of just being willing to spend whatever it takes. And so with Steve Cohen involved, you'd have to say, and especially too with the Mets and the way that the Francisco lindors season is gone in a really positive direction. He's right there with Otoni for the NLMVP conversation, that when you are playing well, and when your previous big dollar investment looks good as it does now with lindor, I think it makes you a little more apt to make another big dollar investment. So I think that's where it stands. I'd say we're probably going to see Juan Soto playing in New York City next year. I just do not know for wish team. Yeah. And I mean, I know we don't call them that, but like the Mets occasionally wear pinstriped uniforms, right? Like the white with the little blue in there, like they do it, they do it as well. You mentioned something that I think is kind of the most interesting part of this all to me is Cohen being the new Steinbrenner, like obviously you don't cut a check for whatever the number ends up being just to rub it in somebody's face. But how much of that do you think it would be? Like we know Cohen wanted to come in and make a ton of splash and yeah, it's one thing to splash your cash around and land Francisco lindor. It's another thing to steal a guy from the Yankees that they gave up a ton for just a year later, like how much do you think that would be a part of the, the motivating factor for the Mets aside from the baseball, which obviously would be a massive part because Soto's really helpful in that regard as well. Right. I do think it would be distant to the baseball consideration, but let's not forget this is New York and there are, there are back pages to be won every day and this is part of playing baseball in the biggest market in the United States and all the excitement and pressure and expectations that go along with it. And as you're laying that out, Brandon, I was thinking about it when was the last time anything like that ever happened in this rivalry and in terms of a player in his prime in free agency as one of the top five players in the sport, leaving the Yankees to go sign with the Mets. I'm not sure it's ever really happened before, not at this level, again, that there have been players that have played for both, but not like this. And, and I agree that, that you really take it and consider all that they gave up to make the steal a reality just less than a year ago and how transformative it would be. If, if Soto crossed this town, it really has a chance to be one of the more unique free agency stories that we've ever seen in the sport is because of, of the intense focus on either side of town, what it would mean for either team to get them. And I think too, let's remember this, if you take, if you take Soto out of the Yankees lineup today and you put him in the Mets lineup, I think top to bottom, you would say the Mets clearly have the better lineup. The Yankees, the Yankees have some sort of obviously they've got judge and there are some other pieces that are, that are interesting and, and Jess just met a big moment last night. But I think if you take today, if you'd basically just trade Soto to the opposite side, I think it clearly tips the scales in, in the Mets favor and it would make the Yankees off season really challenging. No, my God, I'm rooting for that so hard. I mean, you mentioned how please just give it to me. That's Lindor and Otani in the National League MVP race. I think most people have just handed it to Otani who I think he's going to win it, right? He's now got 47 and 47. He's he's going to do the 50 50 thing, which is insane, but he has a pure DH and according to fan graphs, John, Francisco Lindor actually has him in war because he's having a ridiculous offensive season and he's playing shortstop at a high level. Will this be a debate at all? Do you think the, the NL MVP? I think it's absolutely a debate. I do tend to think if I was an NL MVP voter this year, I might, I might give a little bit of an edge to Otani simply based on the historic nature of what he's done, the fact that he's more than likely to be doing it on a division champion and, and that both and especially Mookie being out for a lot of the year that he was able to, to really keep that lineup going at a time where their pitching has been so up and down. So like there, there are some of the more subjective reasons to say that Otani deserves it, but, but there, to me, this is a very, very close race. I, I, I look at this as being, if, if someone voted for Lindor, and again, I would, I would reserve the right to still change my mind on that one, too, between now and, and the end of the regular season. But to me, Lindor will likely be the biggest reason why his team makes the playoffs, if they make the playoffs. And to your point, elite defender at shortstop, the, the 30 Homer season as a shortstop, these are all really compelling cases. So I, to me, I, I look at it much the same as, as the America league in that, I mean, it's a different circumstance, but I think both are still wide open and they should be wide open. There's, you know, the, the, we have not seen the final standings yet. We have not seen how, how these, how all these teams play down the, the very stretch of the season and, and what that means and what all these, these players do. So I, to me, it's a coin flip between Lindor and Otani, I might, I might edge a little bit towards Otani, especially if he finishes off the 50/50, that, that should not be a, a criteria, but it does feel as though a season of that magnitude deserves a trophy of some kind. That makes that he said, and, and I, I do consider that what Otani is doing to be rather historic, but I, in the same breath, what Lindor has done, his fifth season of 30 homers is a shortstop and playing elite up the middle defense and being, I would describe him as the engine that has put this team back into a playoff position. I, I think Lindor is a very deserving winner of the MVP too. Yeah, you'll appreciate this, John. What's been dancing around in my head throughout all this is like, I seem to remember an NHL season where a guy scored 69 goals and they're like the most important thing and it didn't, didn't get them the hardware he wanted. Uh, you, okay. I think I know, I know, I know that was, I know that was a long time ago, I know a long time ago, maybe at least a couple of months, but I, I fully understand the other thing. I think I know the answer to this question, especially since show Hey, Otani has already like started ramping up and trying to work himself back to being a pitcher. He's already had more played appearances than he had in his last season with the angels. Obviously you're just getting more at bats out of him. Is there any world where you could see it, not the Dodgers telling him you're not pitching because he's going to pitch. I think that goes without saying, but where it would make more sense for them to say, can we just have this? Can we have the 50 50 guy who is in the lineup more or less every single day and we don't have to rejig the rotation? Is there any world where seeing Otani just the hitter makes again, not the organization, but makes you, John Marosi think maybe there's a world where he is more valuable if he's just focusing on offense. Well, it's an interesting point and I, my, my first immediate answer would be no simply because that he's special on the mound and pitching in such a premium at this moment in time. I think he wants to do both the fans want to see him do both. I would, I just would have a hard time saying no, when I realized I've got a special arm who's just who's there and ready to contribute, I will live with having to reconfigure the lineup and potentially the rotation to, to get that arm on the mound because less also not forget if you're the Dodgers, just look at how many injuries they've dealt with in the rotation this year and, and how much they need what Otani can give them. And I think, you know, it's sort of wrapped up in what they gave him financially was that he was going to keep doing both. So I, I just think for a variety of reasons you have him keep doing it. I think it's a complete legitimate question and I understand why it's one that we should consider it, and by the way, it might get to a point where let's just say that let's say that he wants to keep playing and getting close to this number of that bass as next season begins and let's say he's maybe not not pitching at his best as a starter. Is there a time where they maybe look at him being a reliever perhaps? I think that's, that's possible. But I think that for now you plan on having him go start and frankly he's so good at this as a starter too that the Dodgers who are in still and this will not surprise anybody who's held this board board the last several years, they're still in a pitching crisis as they approach the posing just as they were last year. And it's probably taking all the willpower and, and discipline that's required for them to not just say, Hey, we could, we could have Otani start came to like, well, why don't we do that? Well, I think that that's probably part of their, their, their firmness right now is just trying to keep themselves from dreaming on that for the month of October. God, that would be amazing. God, even if he throws like 30, 40 pitches, gets through the lineup a couple of times in a post-CC all post-apareos opener, why not? I have no doubt that he could do it. I have no doubt that he could do it. I mean, it's, it's, I have zero doubt that he could now now the question would be would there be any sort of longer term negative impact to that? But if he's already thrown off a mouth, yeah, it's going to be throw in this off season. Right. And he's, and he's already throwing and, and by the way, there are some guys, the Dodgers hope are involved in their playoff rotation like glass now and others who are not exactly pitching in games right now, either, right? Kershaw is another example. So there, I can blast out throwing a similar game this weekend, but trust me, right now as of this exact moment, Shoe Heotani is doing just as much pitching as Clayton Kershaw is in terms of, in terms of how much they're throwing on the side. And so that just gets to that for a moment and reflect on what Dave Roberts might want to do emotionally. Okay, this sounds extreme, but it's a fact when Shoe Heotani steps onto a major league mound again, he will not live up to what Bowden Francis has done over the last six starts. Like that's just, it's not going to happen because Bowden Francis in four of his last six starts is a lot, exactly one hit. It's stupid. Second time this season, he's gone into the ninth inning with a no hitter, John. And it's, it's a small sample and he doesn't, he doesn't have like the, the blow you away stuff, right? Like 91 doesn't exactly jump off the page, but it's, it's how extended for more than a month. And it's not just, you know, it's not just the angels in there, although there are a couple of angels games in there and he didn't throw a one hitter against the Phillies, but he had a, he had a quality start against them, like at a certain point, do we have to start believing something of what we're watching from, from Bowden Francis this last month and change? Absolutely. We do. I mean, he's, he's been excellent. And I think the, it's not just the results, it's the reasons why. And obviously looking at the splitter and what he's been able to do and how he commands that, how he commands the fastball, it's, it is a special repertoire, a special collection of pitches. And obviously he's, he's been able to, I think very importantly in, in the modern game, hold his stuff deep into the ball game in a way that honestly very few pitchers do right now. And I, I'm rooting for him to get that no hitter at some point. I know it's, it's almost like this, this, this, Dave, Steve, a generation later. And for, for our, for our 18, 19 year old listeners, look up Dave Steve at an amazing career. It's a really important start that he made that I'm referring to. But I think that it's, it's amazing to see what he's been able to do. And I think, listen, in the midst of what's been kind of a turbulent season, I think Francis is a good proof of concept that the J's have some smart people in their, in their pitching department, both at the major league and minor league levels, and, and people who are able to, to help them develop. That's, that's a nice feather in the cap of an organization, who I think is really looking for some positive things about this year and, and considering where, where they're at. And, and you, as an organization took someone and, and again, Bowden deserves the, the vast majority of the credit, but you created the environment where someone who was a fringy major league pitcher now looks like an all star. And that doesn't just happen by accident. I think it's an important thing to celebrate. And, and by the way, this is important for the off season, because if, if the J's can then say to free agents, free agents, starting pitcher, let's say, Hey, and again, I realize this is now an area of strength for them relative to the rest of the roster. But if, if the J's come to be known as the place where as a starting pitcher, you can go and, and, and get experience and become the, the, what we're seeing right now about in Francis, that's really good for your marketing. And starters will want to come and sign with you because they believe that you can help them get better. And if they can do that, then it creates some interesting trade opportunities and, and that might be one thing the J's do where if they feel like it's easier to sign a pitcher because of their reputation now, good, sign the pitcher, trade somebody else, trade one of the other pitchers, and then upgrade your offense that way. It's not too bad. It's not coming in a pennant race. I can't believe that the, the Tigers are only three games back of the, the final American league wild cards. Pudge on like our, our people in Detroit, like excited about what the Tigers have done recently. And I mean, part of that is the twins have fallen on hard times. But I guess, is there, is there playoff fever in Detroit? Yeah, it's interesting. It's not, it's not quite back to 2006 levels, but I think two things. Number one, they do have a legitimate shot. It's a little bit remote because the twins own the tiebreaker. So really that's actually like a four game deficit, but it's, it's doable. I mean it, and the Tigers finish the year with the white Sox, which will be interesting. And, and so there is a credible logical path to saying, yeah, they could, they can make the playoffs. So I think people are excited about the way the standings look, but more importantly, they're excited about why they're playing this well, and it is the youth. I was, you know, I was at Yankee Stadium, I said, as we were talking about it, I looked up at the board and it was showing the, the players names and who was, who had done the damage of the Tigers in their win last night over Colorado. And it was carpenter and, and Sweeney, who they got to the trade deadline, it's, it's the young guys who are playing really well. And, and I think that for the first time in a while, they've got multiple, either of their homegrown or young guys they've traded for, who are position players who look like they're going to be part of this team for a long time. And that's, that's when you've got it. That's what's special. That's what is made. And obviously it's on a very different level. Why Jay fans are really attached still I think to the theme is that you saw Laddie grow up. You saw Bechet grow up. And obviously we're hoping to see Bo do more of what he can do and get healthy again. But there's something unique about baseball when you, when you get a chance to see the beginning of something. And Tiger fans are seeing the beginning of something right now. And there's that still potentiality out there, however, remote it is of, of actually getting to October. So it's actually been a pretty fun time for sports in the state of Michigan. The Lions win, Michigan didn't, but at least the Tigers are on the right track. No, Michigan definitively did not win. Yeah, I was wondering. I was wondering where we were going with that. I was like, did I watch a different game? Yeah, I mean, flag fly forever. But yeah, it seems like the turnover they had last season this season seems impactful. John, always a pleasure. Thanks, buddy. Really do the conversation, my friends. Thanks so much for everything. I have a great rest of the week. Yeah, you too. John Morosi of MLB network, the Tigers are three games back and okay, they don't have any more head to head matchups against the twins and they largely built this run on the backs of playing the Rockies and the A's. And the series went over the Royals before that too. And as John rightly points out, they've got a series coming up against the White Sox before the end of season. A couple of series though, against the Orioles. They haven't played the Orioles at all this season. Tigers are not good. Like, nope, they're just not good. I agreed. They're 75 and 71, barely about 500. It's exciting baseball for that. Yeah, they kept a school ball at the deadline as well, right? Blue Jays could have easily been in that spot where it's like, what a disappointing season it is. Yeah. If the Blue Jays were 75 and 71 right now, you would have been saying, what the hell happened here? Still, yes, but. But at least we would have been interested more in the result of the game and that the Blue Jays aren't even at that spot is not so. No, and Bowdoin France is doing everything he can. It's like, I have to drag a no-no into the ninth to make people interested and he's actually done it. A couple of times. I agreed. Time now for the Wakenrike presented by Sports Interaction, your homegrown sports book, 19 plus bet responsibly. I bought this for a Thursday nighter, AFC East Affair, Bills in Miami playing the Dolphins. Both teams want to know, and it's the Dolphins favored by not quite a field goal, two and a half. And the total is 49, which is rather high, but you understand it considering how explosive that Dolphins offense can be. Yeah. Bills also certainly capable of that as well, a little bit of a different offense this year. I'm going to take the Dolphins to cover on this one. I think they're going to win. So I try to get a little value there on the cover as well at minus 110. I think the Bills are going to be the better team when it's all said and done. I don't think they are right now. Dolphins bore continuity there, and I think the home game is well going to help them as well. And I think Tyreek probably won't get a detained, not arrested, detained heading into tonight's game. Didn't impact his performance week one, but yeah, it's also going to be a million degrees here. And I recall I think the Miami game last year, the Bills played up was a bazillion degrees. Josh Allen was melting, had a chance to win that game, but didn't. So I'm with you on the Dolphins thing. I actually also like the under 49. I mean, sloppy play to start the season these Thursday night or short week like I like. I like under 49 in this football game. That was the waken rake presented by sports interaction, your homegrown sports book, 19 plus bet responsibly when we come back. Yanni Hawkenpah, potential Norris Trophy winner is now officially a Toronto Maple Leaf. We'll talk to Jason Bucula about that and more next as the fan morning show continues Ben and his friend Gunning sports at five ninety the fan.
