Our guest today is someone who I've wanted to have the opportunity to chat with for a long time. Now that is Liora Rez. Liora is the founder and executive director of Stop Anti-Semitism. You can go to stopantisemitism.org or you can follow them on X at Stop Anti-Semites. Liora, thank you so much for taking the time to join the Josh Hammer Show. Thrilled to be here. Well, we really appreciate it. So, look, this is a well-timed conversation because one of the things that your organization does is you track instances of Jew hatred, which as you and I both know have catastrophically been rising at exponential and historically unprecedented, at least in modern times, levels over the past couple of years. We have covered all the campus insanity, a great length on this show, Columbia University, UCLA, the campus, jihadis, the protest, the encampments, you name it there. This is the beginning of another academic year. College football season has just gone underway. School is back in session. So, what does it mean? What does it mean for parents of Jewish Jews? Frankly, just for any concerned citizens out there, not just for parents of any particular student, but for those of us who fear as to what is happening on America's university campuses, from an anti-Semitism, anti-Jewish, anti-American, anti-Western perspective, talk to us. What's going on out there right now? Yeah, I think everyone is basically holding their breaths after the Fiasco's that we've seen coast to coast and again, everything in between from last year's academic encampments and riots and so-called protests. So, again, we're anxiously waiting week by week. One of the most standout events was at UNC Chapel Hill just a few weeks ago, despite the fact that students for Justice in Palestine is currently being investigated by the university itself and is "on probation," which means it's not allowed to gather on campus, hold any functions, meetings, etc. during the first week of school, they held a type of rallying campman of sorts, protesting and screaming about how evil the Zionists entity are. So, UNC again, put them on probation, said you can't do this, and of course, didn't follow through like we see with so many of the schools. So, again, we're just anxiously waiting to see what happens. The Jewish holidays around the corner, these anti-Semites absolutely love causing headaches for Jewish students around Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. So, you know, we're kind of in a wait and see moment. We're taking it week by week and campus by campus. So, what specifically do you think is going to happen on October 7, 2024? This is the topic that a lot of my Jewish friends and I have found ourselves talking about. The Department of Justice has just gone ahead and indicted this Pakistani national who was residing in Canada for a planned possible horrific massacre in New York City. Thank God they caught him in time. But the rumor is at least that I've seen deep in the bowels of social media when you kind of stick your neck down and poke in some of these terrible circles. You see people talking about what to do on October 7. So, what are you expecting? And do you think universities right now are up to the task of protecting Jewish students and Zionist students perhaps more generally over the course of this academic year? So, they are charged with protecting Jewish students, but will they? Are they some yes, some no? We just had a circumstance you've probably heard of at the University of Maryland, where on October 7, students for Justice in Palestine, they reserved the Centre Quad to hold type of NACBA event, demonizing the Jewish state for defending itself and its people against the atrocities of 10/7 and Hamas terrorists and donors and board members, students, alumni, parents alike, were begging the administration specifically the president to cancel the event and he refused citing First Amendment speech rights and so on and so forth. And it wasn't until various organizations and press got involved. Did he finally come to the realization, you know, maybe it's not the best thing to do, you know, to open the college campus stage to pro-homosnics on October 7, thankfully, that they canceled the event. So, only events commemorating 10/7 as a tragic event or, you know, doing something in terms of remembering the hostages or calling for the hostages to be returned back home will be allowed. But it's just pathetic that it took a social media shitstorm, excuse my language, and I don't know if I'm allowed to say that on your show or not, and getting press involved and getting governmental, you know, state officials involved to, you know, strong-arm the university president to do the right thing. It's absolutely terrible. And, you know, UNC is a funny school name. I'm actually a Duke guy myself. So, it's probably the one time that I ever find myself rooting for UNC when you see these, you know, these frat boys that were protecting the American flag last year. So, you know, look, I mean, all these vestigial loyalties go out the window when it comes to kind of the sacrosanct task of protecting students on campuses and one, not there. But, you know, it's actually a nice transition in New York. So, I want to get your thoughts on a slightly broader piece of the puzzle here. You know, a recent guest on this show by the name of Ronan Shovell, he's an Israeli public intellectual who has a new book out on political theory and the biblical tradition and whatnot. But he had this really interesting sub-stack post that I actually just read myself a handful of days ago. And it's about rethinking the Ivy League and kind of whether or not Jewish parents and kind of this post-war milieu have kind of erred by trying to send their sons and daughters to the most prestigious institutions imaginable. I myself am somewhat who has trodden down on this path as a Duke and University of Chicago alum. And the question raised by Ronan Shovell in this sub-stack post is essentially whether or not it is time for Jewish parents and prospective Jewish matriculants and students to effectively flip two middle fingers at the purported prestigious institutions here in American society, at least when it comes to the academic level. I live in Florida, certainly I look quite positively at University of Florida, which really kind of shut down any kind of semblance of pro-gaza and can't mentor anything last year to me that is something of the model. And I know that your organization stopped anti-Semitism, keeps tabs, keeps close track of the best and worst university campuses for anti-Semitism. So why don't you kind of connect these threads for us here? You know, should Jewish parents and frankly just patriotic parents? It's not really about Jewish parents. I mean, should parents concern with not just anti-Semitism, but the actual fate of these United States and Western civilization is a time more generally to make an exit from the vaunted Ivy League? Or do we still have to kind of play that game? So this is such a fascinating topic. And actually I was just speaking with somebody this morning regarding just a few decades ago, Yale and Harvard, they had a quota on how many Jews they wanted. So we're coming full circle where they're doing nothing to protect Jewish students. And in fact, some can even argue, you look at Harvard, you look at MIT, they're doing everything possible to make the lives of Jews even harder on campus. So again, yeah, we have to ask ourselves, do they deserve our academic dollars? Do they deserve our talented Jewish students? Do they deserve our donor dollars? And the answer is no in my professional and personal opinion. And what we anticipate is a sort of brain drain to the south, to the Midwest, to Texas. You said you're in South Florida, the University of Miami, which was already a great school. We anticipate that in another four years, their acceptance rate is going to be in the six to eight percent range, because you have so many Ivy League candidates from the north. And it's not only just Jewish students, it's other immigrant families who are working their tails off to save up hundreds of thousands of dollars over the course of 18 years in these 529 plans. They're, you know, kids are willing to take student loans and so much hundreds of thousands of dollars of debts to what to, you know, be terrorized to walk across campus while these maniacs are screaming globalize and to fought and death to America, death to Israel. Nobody wants that for their kids. So schools in Texas now, you know, are becoming vastly talked about in Indiana, in Ohio, you have Arizona schools. So, you know, kind of, we're seeing goodbye to the Stanford and Yale. And so it's not only Ivy, Ivy adjacent, you have, you know, like you said, other universities that were once the go to and the, you know, the cheat, the, I want to achieve this upper status of educational clout that now when we see, okay, the student is going there, the student is going there. We're like, wow, how long until something anti-Semitic happens to them? And why didn't they look at other options? Thankfully, Dartmouth University amongst the Ivy is still holding strong in their defense of not only Jewish students, but just upholding their policies of harassment and encampments and things like that. But I believe it was 24 hours ago where Brown University is one of the board of trustees, Edelman, he stepped down from the board shaming the president and the administration saying you have failed your Jewish students. You have failed your student body by commiserating to the anti-Semitic mob. And we commend him. We commend, you know, the Mark Rowans who and the Bill Ackman to have cease funding. And your donor dollars, you worked very hard for put them elsewhere, you know, put them into advocacy groups like stop anti-Semitism.org, but look at other schools, you know, as a professional and as a parent, there is no way where, you know, seven years ago, 10 years ago, I would love for a child of mine to go to Yale. Now over my dead body, would I even spend, you know, the $85 to even apply there? I wouldn't even give them the satisfaction of that. Would I be thrilled if they went to the University of Miami or UT Austin or Ohio State? Absolutely. And again, 10 years ago, I would never be saying such a thing. You know, not to say these schools were not, you know, good or good enough for us, but it wasn't the most achievable that Jewish students were looking forward to, you know, to to achieve their their best. Yesheba University now is on the table for so many parents, including, you know, in my family, you know, in the next four or five years. You have Brandeis University, which I'm an alumni of, has just totally put the kabosh and kicked SJP off campus and have really been doing a great job protecting their Jewish students and allies. So I think that, yeah, there's going to be a huge shift. And like I said, a massive brain drain that's going to be super interesting to dissect in the next three to four years. Yeah, I mean, it seems to me like it's very much kind of an ad hoc case by case, campus by campus assessment. So, you know, you know, for instance, it was earlier this year, and I think it was in April or so that a friend sent me an article from the forward, the historically liberal leading Jewish publication that actually had a very long write up on Duke and how Duke actually had no issues. There were no protests, no encampments, which both surprised me and made me happy as an alum. On the other hand, University of Chicago, where I went to law school, had these horrific encampments until the president finally shut it down after this elaborate negotiation exercise with these mini jihadist running around campus in the cepheas. It was a terrible look for a university, the University of Chicago, which once upon a time, frankly, as recently as five to six years ago, would have, I think, been viewed along with places like Hillsdale's one of the last remaining defenders of Western civilization in American higher education. So that was just a total, total smite, frankly, on the University of Chicago. It was awful to watch that. But, you know, more generally, we've named a bunch of schools here. What are some more tangible recommendations? I mean, you've mentioned University of Miami, University of Texas, Austin, UT Austin, Ohio State there. Any others that come to mind as to universities that are actually doing this the correct way? Yeah, absolutely. In the Midwest, you have, you know, a top 30, if not top 25 university now, Case Western Reserve University, if you're still hell bent, and your kid getting into an IV, again, Dartmouth University is, you know, a really viable option. And then we, we really invite families, again, like you said, it's so case by case dependent, like we can't just generalize and say East Coast, West Coast, Midwest, because when you look at University of Michigan, it's a jihadi training base essential with, you know, with their population numbers of pro-homosnics, it's, it's frightening. Then you look at Ohio State University in the adjacent state where you had snipers on the building on the first day of encampment. I mean, they took it on the complete opposite side of the spectrum. So like you said, it's, it's campus by campus. You have Texas A&M, which, you know, which had some incidents, but now after all of, you know, the trouble post 10/7, they vowed to close their campus in Qatar. You have Carnegie Mellon, who refuses to close their campus in Qatar, and who now, I believe their School of Architecture, there's a Title VI complaint that's been filed against some alleging anti-Semitism. So, you know, it's, it's case by case. Parents have to get involved. You have to do these campus visits. You cannot go just by name recognition alone anymore. The brands have been so tainted. We always joke that Harvard and Columbia, they should be MBA case studies and how to ruin a brand in six months. For sure. Without any question, I mean, Columbia University seems to me like it, like it is, you know, basically ground zero, perhaps pun intended, frankly, tragically, in many ways there. But I mean, look, the point is that there is no shortage of options out there for universities where students can matriculate who still care about defending Jewish students, who still care about defending all students, frankly, for the matter. Because again, this isn't really necessarily about Jewish particularism. This is simply about an even-handed application of a university's rules and also about federal and state law, about laws like Title VI and so forth as well there. So again, we're talking here with Liora Rez, who is the founder and executive director of Stop Anti-Semitism. You can go ahead and check out their work at Stop Anti-Semitism.org. Liora, I want to kind of switch gears slightly while staying within the same broader parameters of the conversation. I want to talk to you about combating anti-Semitism more generally. In my mind, there are some good ways to do this and there are some bad ways to do this. I fear sometimes when I see people who are sometimes too quick to start shouting at the semi that you risk ultimately getting drowned out. And this is kind of the classic concern about, you know, is it actually a wolf? Is it a wolf and sheep's clothing there? And you know, the problem that we've seen sometimes over the years, and I probably guilty this myself, is that when you start getting really, really, really trigger happy to call something, then you're not going to be prepared to actually then call it out when it actually manifests itself. And to just give one, you know, very current, I guess, anecdote along these realms, you know, I do worry about the fact that when Tucker Carlson recently had this actual Nazi sympathizer, Darrell Cooper, on his podcast there, I do worry about the fact that people who have just overused the term Nazi, Nazi, Nazi, Nazi, Nazi, it does kind of inoculate against actually calling out someone who seems to be a fan of Adolf Hitler. There is there is a difference in kind between these things there. So I kind of wanted to wanted your broader thoughts on that. I mean, how is what is your approach at Stop Any7ism.org to actually knowing when to keep mum or when to actually call it out when the wolf actually comes as a wolf? I'm just like your broader thoughts on that. Yeah, absolutely. So we always try to go by Ira, the international Holocaust from everyone's alliance definition of anti-Semitism. It's adopted by the U.S. Department of State. It's adopted by the U.S. Department of Education, municipality, city, so on and so forth. So that's generally our gold threshold. Is it or is it not, you know, does it meet the Ira threshold of anti-Semitism? Now, we generally, in an Ira just taking a quick side note or step back, Ira lists about 11 to 12 sample definitions. And we generally like to at least check three of those boxes, right? So when Tucker Carlson had this guest on here, this guy checks probably like nine of these boxes, right? So the onus goes on to Carlson saying, listen, you have this massive platform. You also have a responsibility to humanity. The Holocaust was, you know, less than nine decades ago, what, 84 years now back, I'm not doing proper math. But, you know, again, a plus short eight plus decades ago, and you have this Adolf Hitler fanboy on your platform, you have to bear some kind of responsibility, because there is a phenomenon right now. And it's very frightening where individuals are being indoctrinated on social media that have, you know, very difficult times functioning in a normal society that are eating this crap up that could, you know, that have mental health disorders that are possibly, you know, on the spectrum that are not getting the help that they need, that are eating this hate and bigotry up, and then transforming that hatred into a physical society and harming individuals, whether that's the tree of life shooter, whether that's, you know, in New Zealand, that maniac who I can't remember if it was a shooting or stabbing at a mosque out there. It's just very frightening, whether it's the Khabad Poway incident in 2019 or even, I believe it was January of last year, you have this Pakistani immigrant who took a synagogue hostage in Coli know, that Jihadi Isis female prisoner that she actually went to Brandeis University for grad school. He wanted her released from prison. And, you know, that the hatred that he consumed online, he thinks Jews had this power that he could call a rabbi and bam, she's going to be out of, you know, federal detention. So it's, you know, when you have a large platform, you have a responsibility to not give voices. This isn't, you know, about an argument. It's not if Hitler was bad. Hitler was one of the most evil figures and one of the biggest stains on humanity, and you don't give these kind of individuals a platform. That's, it's just very black and white to us. For sure. And beyond, you know, beyond just not platforming, you know, certain incredibly noxious and toxic individuals, any kind of concrete advice for, you know, for what people who don't necessarily have Tucker Carlson's platform, for instance, like what they can be doing in their communities, in their churches and in their civic centers, their, their gymnasiums, their labor unions, whatever. I mean, I mean, what can all of us be doing to tamp down on this recent, just, just horrific, latest outbursts of the world's most ancient bigotry? Yeah, I think it's, um, amongst our non Jewish allies, I think it's crucial to really understand and, you know, history repeats itself. I don't think that's a secret. We're the first stumbling block when they're done with Jews, they're coming for you next. So we have to work as community is, and when you see something, you know, it's never death to Israel. It's never just death to Israel. It's death to America, death to Western values. You know, they want to create chaos. They want to create hate here. So it's crucial to, if you, you know, see some antisemitism out there, if you hear it, stand up for your neighbor, that's the only way to stamp it out, is working together as community members, again, in schools, in churches, synagogues, community events together on professional spaces, personal spaces, is to never just ha ha ha, you know, oh, he's a lunatic, you know, or ha ha, it's just a joke. These, these types of dismissals have led to catastrophes for the Jewish people. So again, it's just, you know, to stand tight in your morals, um, you know, be strong allies. It works both ways. Um, and to really, you know, stand with your Jewish neighbors. For sure. Shameless plug. I have a forthcoming book that I'm just putting the finishing touches on the manuscript now, Israel and Civilization, the fate of the Jewish nation and the destiny of the West, where I have a whole closing chapter basically on this, on this exact theme, which I call like a Jewish Christian alliance to save the West. But in any event here, we're just wrapping up our conversation with Liorrez, who's the founder executive director of Stop AnySemitism.org. Liora, why don't we conclude our conversation with the following question. If I understand your biography correctly, you've, you've fled the Soviet Union, you're your refugee to the United States as a Soviet refugee here. One, did you ever think growing up that you would ever see this kind of any semitism in America? Never, never, absolutely never. I was very fortunate where I grew up in the Midwest, um, in a predominantly Christian Catholic area. Um, but friends, neighbors, community were so, so welcoming to my family. Um, they knew we were immigrants to the country. Um, we had immigrated when I was, I believe just four or five years old. So, um, you know, just before kindergarten, um, everyone was so welcoming and never what I thought, you know, listen, we grew up on the granddaughter of Holocaust survivors. I grew up hearing the stories. Um, you know, my grandparents were alive until, um, I, you know, it was in my teen years. So grew up hearing this. Um, it's very hard to fathom that this type of hatred would happen again, specifically in the United States, right? Um, and with the rise of social media, 2018, you know, 2020, 2021, and now 10, 7, 20, 23 and beyond very easily to see and understand just not how it can happen, but how quickly it can happen. It's very frightening. It's, it's very frightening indeed. And that kind of leads me to the second part of this two part closing inquiry, I guess, which is do you ever fear that having already fled the Soviet Union for here, that you will have to leave at some point again? I guess the more broader, slightly more anodyne way of phrasing that question is, are you optimistic or pessimistic about the future of Jewish life in America? I'm extremely optimistic. Um, listen, we're Jews. We don't have any other, um, viewpoint that we can, we can afford to have them optimistic. It is going to be heartbreaking that if my adoptive home turns into the same anti-Semitic cesspool that we fled, um, you know, 40 years ago, um, I hope that the country can come together to realize that the threat to the Jewish people is a threat to modern society in America as a whole. Um, and, you know, is my end goal to one day make Aliyah, it is, but I hope it's out of a proactive measure and not of a defense mechanism due to anti-Semitism in the U S. Well, on that very happy and optimistic note, Liorrez is the founder and executive director of stop anti-Semitism. You can check them out at stop anti-Semitism.org. Follow them on X at stop anti-Semites. Lior, thank you so much for joining the Josh hammer show. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here with you.
