(upbeat music) - Hey, you're listening to the Center podcast. We're a church based in material Sydney and love Jesus. And so we wanna make him the center of our lives, our community and our world. We're gonna learn how to do that right now as we sit down and unpack Sunday sermon. - Well, how's it going? Thanks for joining us again, this is Banta. My name is Murray. - And I'm Mitch. We are continuing through our sermon on the Mount series. Mitch, thank you for the teaching on Sunday. Yeah, as you kind of mentioned, a bit of a oft quoted, oft misquoted passage as well, about judgment. And yeah, then sort of a kind of weird passage about some pigs and some dogs and we'll hop into that in a bit. But before we get into it, I was thinking, I'm like, I was racking my brain. I'm like, what's a good icebreaker today? I was thinking, Jesus is using some sort of carpentry language here, right? Like sawdust and a plank. So I have my question to you was, and whatever you say, mine will be worse. So you're in a safe space. What is the most handy thing you've ever done? Ooh, in the heart of Jesus' carpentry work. - Built a retaining wall. - Yeah, okay. - Yeah, a chest of hill. - That was pretty fun. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. So kind of quite a few bricks. - We built a log. - Logs. - Logs, yeah. - We built a log retaining wall for the front garden. - Yeah, and we built, so how the house worked with it. We had a shared driveway. We owned the front place. - Yep. - And then the shared driveway. - Like a bad lax. - Yep, yep. - And then to get the second car in, we converted part of the garden on the side of the driveway into a car spot. So we built another retaining wall, Phillip. - Yeah, that was pretty handy. - Pulled the log out of your eye, and you built a retaining wall with it, I love it. Yeah, look, that is pretty handy, man. There's not many things that I've done that are particularly handy. Honestly, I think putting just together a piece of eye care furniture. It's probably as handy as I've gone. - Done that too. - Yeah, I mean, like, look, it's the absolute lowest bar, isn't it? I'm trying to think of anything else. - You can say that, that some eye care furniture is really difficult. - Yeah. - It can, I feel like it's getting more intricate. Maybe I'm just buying more expensive pieces as I get older. - I remember when we... - Can't remember what it was, but we bought some sort of office set with drawers and crackers. We got, like, to step 20 and it realized that we'd stuffed up at, like, step three and had to run. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was pretty intricate. And the instructions aren't always the clearest. - No, and that, like, pressed cork board is not always the most forgiving when you're unscrewing a screw and putting it somewhere else, but yeah. I think the other thing that's difficult about eye care is they decide to have international manuals that have no words on them, which you and I also experienced the other week when we're trying to put together our new baptismal pool/hot time. - Yes, and then what was funny was all the videos. People are like, "Oh my goodness, "is it so much better than its useless instruction manual?" And, like, these were videos that weren't even made by the company, like, they were just random people showing you how to do it. - Just some random dude in Essex. - Yeah, all right, so you do it. - Love it, so good, so good. Well, as we jump into this passage today, it was something that we sort of mentioned on Sunday that it's oft missed quoted, probably by Christians and non-Christians alike. This idea of judgment. It's not necessarily something which is a very sexy word for 2024, and maybe something which had some slightly different understandings, connotations, maybe even interpretations in Jesus' usage of it here. How we to come to this really tricky word judge. - Yeah, well, let's put on a Greek hat for a minute, so I can thank Jonathan Pennington for this, by stealing this from his commentary. So the Greek word, crino, which we translated as judge, has what's called a semantic range, broader than just, 'cause when we think of judge in English, we just didn't condemn, like a judge on his condemnation, but, like, judge, like, crino in a broader sense can mean to evaluate, to discern, to separate, or decide. And so, like, it's quite broad in that sense. Not just condemnation on someone. And I guess, too, like, it's called crino or judging, it's about justice and dispensing justice on the judge. And so, when we read that word, you know, do not judge, we're thinking, well, do not condemn people. - Yeah. - I had, like, when I was preparing this, I think I have two pucks. - Two pucks, the rapper? - Oh, he had that song, only God can judge me. - You're too cool, I call him two pucks. - Oh, is it two pucks? - No, I think it is two pucks. It's two pucks, I'm like, two pucks. I'm thinking of two hockey pucks, sorry, yeah, okay, sorry. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the rapper. Like, he had, like, a song only God can judge me. - Yeah. - And that's kind of tied in with that idea. It's like, well, yeah, I can do whatever I want, because only God can judge me, and you can't judge me. You can't do one doing wrong, and it's fine. - Totally. - No, that's not what Jesus is talking about. And I've heard it from other Christians, and I was like, oh, we're not meant to judge people. I was like, well, in a sense, yes, we are, but not in the way that you're thinking of. - Yeah. - You're thinking you're judging as in condemning people. As Pennington points out, Jesus meant that, like, we can't condemn people, he's a hypocrite himself, 'cause later on in chapter 70 talks about, you know, a tree bites fruits. - Yeah, really. - Could tree reduce as good fruits? Bad tree reduces, bad fruits? - Yeah. - It's like that. - It's your judgment. - Yeah. What he's talking about, and I like what Pennington says is a better translation is, do not judge unfairly. - Yeah. - It says, talking about hypocrisy, it's like, don't, don't condemn someone, don't judge someone, in that sense, and be doing the exact same things yourself. The apostle Paul talks about this in Romans. Romans chapter two, it's like, hey, you who teach others, do you teach yourself, you know, you say, do not steal, are you stealing, and you, you know, don't commit a dollar, are you committing adultery, and et cetera, and so forth. And so it's probably aimed at cypals, slash pharacy, slash those in the crowd who thought that, yeah, they were better than others, or excluded from behavior. They're whole, I like that saying, a rule for the, but not for me, in the sense, a rule for you, but not for me, and she's saying, like, if that's what you're doing, and you're condemning others, judging others, well then you're actually putting a measure against yourself, and that will be held against you. And it's quite fascinating, we've kind of mentioned a couple of times that Jesus isn't really reinventing the wheel, he's tapping into some, like, Jewish and Old Testament, like, kind of wisdom, and so there's one passage I found from a book called Syriac, which is a Jewish intertestimal book, it says this is Syriac 1820, before judgment comes examine yourself, and at the time of scrutiny, you will find forgiveness, so there's an idea there of saying, okay, like, examine yourself, like, kind of do the whole log extraction thing from your eye, and if you do that, you'll find forgiveness from God, and so, yeah, there's a few people who know, it's a little bit of, like, Jesus, clearly, like, taking that concept that's familiar in Judaism and applying it here, in the Sermon on the Mount, so, yeah, that's probably the biggest thing, just to, I think even for me, like, I found it hard, because I just saw you used to hearing judges' condemnation, and idea, I were not meant to judge people, but, actually, yeah, there's, ah, in a sense of, we meant to point out what I was doing wrong, but first after log extraction. - Yeah, I think that even, the interesting thing is, it's sort of this really tricky thing when you try and put yourself in the shoes of a translator, you realize that, in some ways, judge is actually a really great word, because in English, it does also have that semantic range. You can have a judge as far as somebody who's at an Olympic level, judging, some person is still gonna get gold, you know, this idea of judging can also be a reward in recognizing somebody who's doing something good in a discerning way, and I even sort of thought of the way of judging in assessing something, assessing different wines, and kind of saying, oh, what are the sort of characteristics of this wine? So, being a judge, although it's definitely, I think, a really strong connotation for us when we read that, a white-wigged, gavel judge in a law court, there are actually a range of the idea of being a judge, so, yeah, having good judgment is this kind of idea, which I think is really, really helpful. And then, as he's sort of talking about this log and this sort of, or spec, it's quite hyperbolic as well. He's using this really exaggeration language here, which is really interesting as well, 'cause throughout, we kind of continue to see that Jesus is using sort of wisdom, literature style language, he is speaking in ways, and even, you know, later in the, you know, do not give dogs what he's sacred, do not throw your pearls to pigs, these really strong evocative language. So, the idea is, even though it seems extreme, this log in your eye, it's to really make this idea of a greater point of hypocrisy, and I think it's kind of really helpful for us to look at this because, really, you see how Jesus kind of had a sense of humor as well, like it's kind of a bit of a ridiculous image, and there does seem to be some comedy in it, and I just love that it brings a little bit of, no, humor to Jesus. You show that he maybe had a little bit of spark, a little bit of personality. He was not just a real serious sermonizer. - Well, I think that was, like, the point of the, the recreation of my childhood drawing, about the little stick man and log in his eye, it's like, nah, it's a pretty ridiculous sort of image. - Totally. - And I've, yeah, it's also just as ridiculous to have, like, protruding out of your eye, telling someone, "Oh, look, let me fix that for you." - Totally. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, that's what's powerful about all the metaphors Jesus used, and it really cuts to the heart of, like, "Well, like, if you've got deep issues in your life, "how can you think that you can help others do that?" And yeah, it's a language, like I still, on Sunday, like I spent a long time, 'cause one of the things that I've heard a lot about, yeah, you've just got to remove the log from your eye. - Yeah. - Not actually really explaining how to do it. - How to do that. - That's good. - Well, it's not good, but it's good to recognize it. - Yeah, and I felt like, okay, how does that look? - Yeah. - What does that look like? - Yeah. - I said, I was sort of imagining, imagine telling someone, "Oh, I've noticed this in your life, "but don't worry, I have removed the log from my own eye "before approaching you, "that would feel even more hypocritical "and judgmental-willed." - Totally. - So, yeah, and I said, it was one of those flashes, if I, do you ever find this that the, when you're searching for things and just come across something random, like Google? - Yeah, it's just like this flash, and I just saw, it wasn't even like a, it was just, I just saw this little word in like, you know, you get the little like, the bio on each website and the Google search. - Just had like self-awareness. - Yeah. - I was like, "Oh, that's it. "That's what he's talking about." So awareness and, yeah, and that's where it went low, kind of led down this whole pathway. I'm like, "Oh, excellent." - Yeah. - And looking at that way and, yeah, actually starting with that. It'd be helpful if Jesus actually gave us a step-by-step guide to what that looks like, but it doesn't. So we're sort of, I guess part of the wrestling with sort of finding our own tools. And I think what struck me about the eczema is just how it speaks into the contemporary language of emotional intelligence. - Yeah. - And I think that's what shocked me the most was, yeah, I've sort of heard of it. I've never really done the practice. Like I kind of knew existed. I looked at other Ignatian prayers before and done them, they imagine his stuff, but yeah. And like, kind of reading both secular and Christian, like Pete Scazero, who I quoted on Sunday, like he talks about how like leaders with low self-awareness are emotionally unhealthy because they're not aware of what's going on inside of them and all that. And it's like, yeah, that's like really common things that I talk about, your EQ and your emotional intelligence. It's like the big buzzword around it's, and then to see Ignatius was doing that 500 years ago. I was like, "Oh, like really? "There's really nothing new under the sun." Yeah, yeah, this is actually like, I guess, a spiritualized form of becoming self-aware. There's a, he's a business psychologist, Henry Weinsinger, and he's put emotional intelligence. I quite like that it's from the 90s. And he has, in his opening chapter about how to become more self-aware, one of the exercises he recommends is keeping a feelings journal. That's something that, somewhere in which school, some MBA school would actually make their first years do a feelings journal as part of their training. - I can imagine all these like, slick-haired sort of business guys being like, "I didn't come here to learn about this." - Yeah, well, yeah, I guess Weinsinger is sort of, he's mentoring is like, you got to, that your behavior, your emotions work in your favor. And so if you're like angry all the time and snappy here, it's possible it's really easy to say about hard to do inside of it. Anyway, it's just interesting that like his book, which I'd read a number of years ago, I haven't got that sort of exercise and then come across the X-men and I'm like, "Ah, like that's what, yeah, Ignatius was calling us to do." But you know, a lot more spiritual sense of, yeah, and what some, if you people ask me, and so we'll put on the pastors desk for this week, but there's an app, let me put it on my phone. The app that I referred to, and like I said, we'll be there on the pastor's desk is, it's just called X-men. It's the first one if you Google it into App Store. I don't know about the Play Store, but it's got a little cloud, it's the X-men I'm re-imagined. And so what the app does, and there's a book that comes of it is that it's, 'cause a traditional X-men has become aware of God's presence, review the day with gratitude, pay attention to your emotions, choose a feature of the day and pray from it, and then look forward tomorrow. He's sort of got it specifically about areas in your life that you might be facing. And so, yeah, there's things of like, oh my gosh, there are walls about 20 here, but yeah, I identify inner wounds, shifts in my spirit. Was I present or absent, by relationship with God, self and others, appending decision, how I treat others today, today's surprises, yeah, like, what do I seek in my past present future? So, quite detailed, and that's what he sort of said in it, like, just trying to make it a bit more contextualized for the modern world, and yeah, and like, if you're looking for, say, forgiveness of others, yucky has like the opening verse, I found that quite convicting when I did that about now. Like, yeah, treating others well and seeking forgiveness, like, he uses that passage from Matthew. If I whatever you did for at least to these brothers of mine, you did save me, I'm like, ooh, like that's okay, yeah. That's pretty challenging. That's a great place to start, so, yeah, a really cool tool. And like I said on Sunday, it's not gonna make you perfect. It's not gonna transform you, like, well, hopefully it will transform you, it won't make you a perfect disciple, it won't be seamless, you're still gonna stuff up, but yeah, it's not gonna transfigure you, that's figure you, that's a better thing, yes. (laughing) But it's a much healthier place to start, I feel, and be starting to live out what Jesus' words of, like, being a log remover is, yeah, yeah. - Very cool, and I think, like, you know, emotional intelligence is such a huge thing, but I also think a huge part of that then leads to, through the act of, you know, that that X-men, that self-examination, having a social intelligence as well, and then knowing how to remove that speck from the brother's eye, knowing how to interact with somebody, with somebody with empathy, yeah, with, yeah, just a high social intelligence, and they are kind of built on top of one another, that it is really only when you have developed a robust emotional intelligence that you can then have an effective social intelligence, and so much of the sound on the mount is so communal, so other focused, and really thinking about how can you engage not just with God well, but with others well, that's kind of the whole kicker of the sermon, right? And then you kind of get into this part where in, yeah, the 60s starts talking about, do not give dogs what is sacred, do not throw your pills to pigs, if you do, they may trample them under their feet and turn and tear you to pieces, which can, on face value, seem bit out of context. - Yeah. - Bit just sort of like, okay, cool, it's like, what do we do with this? - It's important, depending on who you do this. - Depending on how you want to interpret it, you can take it in one of many ways. So one reading is that it's just a random insert that Matthew's made, 'cause dogs and pigs are sort of words to use of Gentiles, so it's like, you know, the pagans won't understand this, so don't, you know, give to dogs what's sacred, don't throw your pills to the pigs, 'cause I'll just trample it. So it's almost like, oh, my teaching's only for like, my followers, and I don't know, it just feels like, I don't know, I'm not overly sold on that. - Sure. - That's just me. I feel like, I don't think it's just there randomly. - Yeah. - It's one, another one is to say, this is probably the view that I like better, is that it's, kind of part one about it's like judging, like hyper critically, then need to be able to discern what's right and wrong. So, in the sense of, okay, don't be overly critical, but at the same time too, don't just sort of let things slide, it's almost another way of like, okay, yeah, remember that this is sort of precious, yeah, don't just like, yeah, yeah. - So what's the one I want to say? Show discernment about how you do things. - Don't be overly lenient. - Don't be overly critical, yeah. - Show discernment, you know. And so, and that's probably where I sit with that. It is, it is a bit of an odd expression. If most, and like some commentators too, put the six as part of the whole, not judging in sort of some, knock connected in with the, our seek and knock. Some just see seven-- - 'Cause it's one, like to 12, it's just one unit together, there's, I guess a lot of this is a little artificial because really the Sermon on Mount's meant to be read in one giant city. - Yeah, totally, yeah. But yeah, but there is a bit of like, Old Testament stuff, like around the different proverbs about, yeah, being careful with sacred things. Yeah, Jesus isn't fully reinventing the wheel. - Yeah. - But yeah, it is a little odd, but I see it more around that concept of discernment, about showing discernment about, yeah, yeah. - What you're doing, how you're judging, and look, yeah, there's some people, he's what I was looking for. So there's like, a few references in the Old Testament from proverbs about, so proverbs nine eight, do not rebuke a mock, or he'll hate you, rebuke a wise man, he will love you. There's that idea there. - Absolutely. - Do not speak to a fool, for he will despise the wisdom of your words. That's 23 nine, say 26 four, do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be like him. And that's what I said, it's like riffing off some of that wisdom literature. And probably more in, yeah. Say it more in the context of the around that. - Discernment, you discern with others. - Yeah, that's so cool. - So I like this message, a paraphrase, as Eugene Peterson himself called it, but he said, don't be flipped with the sacred banter, and silliness, give no honor to God. That's not the case of our podcast. Don't reduce holy mysteries to slogans, in trying to be relevant, you're only being cute and inviting sacrilege. - Yeah, 'cause that's another thing too. Like the sacred can like, mean like holy things or holy food. And so there's sort of like a almost ritual element behind that. And so some people will kind of go down that route, like Jesus is talking about like a sacredness of, - Yeah. - Yeah, not sort of spoiling that. But I say, probably say the simple thing is like, just having discernment around what you're doing. So if you're pulling out your log from your eye and helping, you know, another to see clearly, also remember like, yeah, not to be throwing away like it has a wisdom. - Yeah. - So having that discernment, yeah, and then that. - Yeah, and then like I said, Michael Wilkins, that sees commentary sort of like, yeah, don't be hypercritical, but also don't have naive acceptance. He sees that sort of as a bit of a thing to me. - Yeah, I think the more that we reflect on this, the more we recognize it's actually a very pertinent challenge for us today, when we're trying to live in a gospel of grace, but yet still trying to uphold holiness, Christian values, it's a tricky tension that, you know, this is a, yeah, a lifelong challenge. It's not something that we're ever gonna perfect. And I think that each situation has its own response worthy of it. So it really does take a discerning spirit, I think. And yeah, as you said on Sunday, that constant self-reflection, self-examination, I think even another sort of subheading of this section could have been self-awareness. You know, in not only who you are, but how you engage with others and how other people can be best helped. And so yeah, I think a really helpful challenge for all of us, especially living in a space where we all have contacts who aren't Christian. And we all probably, unfortunately, have contacts who are Christian and not doing it very well. - Yeah. - You know, and it kind of applies to both of these people, whether it's the spec for the Christian or the, you know, the pearls to the swines at the spec. - Yeah, I think all of it comes down to, and it's not in the sermon. There's a couple of passages from Paul. So first one from Galatians about this idea like speaking the truth in love. And so it's just from Galatians 5, 19. It says, "My brothers, if one of you should wander "from the truth and someone should bring him back." Remember this, whoever turns a sinner from era of his ways will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins. Like, yeah, if, again, that kind of goes back to the early point of Jesus meant judgment as condemnation and like Paul's saying here, but yeah. Yeah, we're meant to do this. So we have to help people kind of come back and then, yeah, and it's from Galatians. Yeah, brothers, if someone is caught in sinish, you who are spiritual should restore him gently, but watch yourself or you also may be tempted, carry each other's burdens in this way, you'll fulfill the law of Christ. So that's Galatians 6, one to two. - Yeah, that's a really interesting interpretation of it as well, looking at in this way of, yeah, say if you were really struggling in a certain area, say, alcoholism, and then you're trying to help another friend through it and you end up sort of forward and back into that pattern of behavior yourself. - I could sort of, again, in your attempt to sort of help, you know, to throw a pill to swine, you end up having it crossed yourself. - And I guess that's, actually, I realize I misspoke. The first passage about wandering from the truth came from James, not Galatians. James 519-20, so he clarified that. - You tricked what he made. - Put a little caveat on that. Someone goes looking for it. That's Galatians 519. I was like, it should have been James 519, and then Galatians 6, one to two, but yeah, and that's, but yeah, like for what you're saying there, like the alcohol is also a great example, 'cause that's about the log sort of removal. - Yeah, well, perhaps you're not the best person to be dealing with this. - Yeah, and then it's like a discerning thing because I think that AA seems to recognize that there is a great strength in somebody who is truly conquered that, being able to be somebody who is a sponsor for that person. And so this real tricky thing of, again, the log being taken out of the eye almost gives you strength in it, but it also needs to be making sure that it's not gonna make you fall back into that. When you quoted that James 519, I couldn't help but think, 'cause you said that the correction would, you know, to sort of cover a multitude of things. And I couldn't help but think of the passage in 1P4, which is love covers over a multitude of sins. And it's interesting 'cause we don't often think of correction as love, but it is, right? It's the two sides of the same course. - Well, it's like what parents do, that the kids are, probably more hazel in the ash of it. At the stage now, we're like, don't understand why punish him for wrong things. And really need to be like, hey, like, this is why I'm doing this one day. You'll thank me when you become a mature adult. I kind of get out of the time, but yeah, it's actually unloving to not discipline a kid. - Yeah, absolutely. - Absolutely. - Yeah, you know, that's sort of a challenge. And we, yeah, I like what Scazero says, rereading and listening to a lot of his stuff of late. And it's just as Christians as a whole, just so poor, managing conflict and poor behavior. And yeah, I think what we feel is being loving. It's actually being very unloving by not sort of helping to like, hey, like, this is not behavior haze, it's like what we expect. - Just enabling that, yeah, by no address. - Under this like sort of pseudo guys of art, trying to show love and patience and grace. And yeah, actually not like it's, yeah. - Yeah, I like to say, there's a reason why Paul wrote most of these, 'cause churches were very unhealthy and native. - Yeah, correction. - Yeah, absolutely. - Yeah, I'm glad he did do that correction, otherwise we'd be poor without it. - Yeah, absolutely. And I think I just speak from my own experience in my marriage, that's something where, you know, when M speaks into a part of my life in a way of correction, you know, that's actually a real place of privilege as well. And it's a place that people earn. And I think it just comes back to as well, this recognition that, yeah, it's about building that relationship. And if you truly are loving, you know, the other, as yourself, your neighbor, your brother, your sister, that is really a sort of a foundation of relationship that you can then actually receive correction. And I think that, yeah, it's just a good challenge for us to not just do discipleship well, but do community and relationship. - Yeah, and it's probably a critical part of discipleship, like that quote I had from Scazero, where he says, and he says that lots of times and he's teaching about, yeah, Christians are like, just not warm, nice, caring people. He even puts himself on that boat. He goes, yeah, I was a bit like that. There's, yeah, I think that really is nothing new under the sun. He says a lot of these Christians do, they're spiritual disciplines, they're attending church, they're reading in Bibles, but there's no inner transformation. It's just very outward. It's like, yeah, sounds very much like the Pharisees. We like to think that we're not like, but I think deeper down human nature falls into those traps. They're just different sort of rituals. Yeah, and coming back to that place of, yeah, to use the modern words, self-aware, or become a log, a log lifter, a log puller, puller outer, that sort of thing. Irritating wall build-up, yeah, yeah, yeah. So good, so good. Well, yeah, look, as we wrap up today, any kind of closing thoughts on this passage? Yeah, look, one of the good things about church teaching, it's quite self-contained. Kind of means what it says. You don't need a whole lot of unpacking for, I guess what I'm seeing is that it's quite short, but the ramifications for living this type of life is challenging, very challenging to be a log puller, but very deeply rewarding. Also, I suppose you'd have to confront to use scazero's language, confront your shadow. And that can be hard, because there's stuff that we don't want to confront. Well, stuff that's very deep down around, I don't want to deal with that. So, yeah, part of it, I see, like, pulling the log isn't just a, oh, well, I've kind of dealt with that surface level, you know, surface level issue, but yeah, it's actually going a lot deeper. So, hold on. Yeah, I guess if we were all doing that, first and foremost, yeah, maybe, I guess we'd have a lot, there'd be a lot more specs in our eyes. I guess to use Jesus sort of analogy there, we'd be pulling out specs from each other's eyes left, right and center, not just, yeah. And, yeah, pulling out specs in the center, we're hoping to discern, hoping to guide and hoping to shape for another, you know, way that, yeah. So, well, this stuff is easy to say hard to do, but yeah, I guess, if you're serious about this, oh, I just, yeah, recommend doing the X-Men. That's just the place to start, like, at 15 minutes. Yeah, spiritual discipline. Yeah, so it's formula. And we might put a link to that app in the show notes if you, yeah, want to click on board and Mitchell put it through in the passes desk on Sunday. Oh, Friday, easy. Well, we are, yeah, hopping into the next part of the stone on the mountain, sort of Jesus's closing part of the main junk before he sort of, yeah, wraps it all up. But there's, yeah, it kind of been some interesting readings I've been looking at this week, seeing this passage that we're just talking about, the pigs and the dogs, sort of almost being a linchpin between these two parts, which we're going into the ask, seek, knock and what, yeah, prayer looks like, which I think previously I've always seen this passage being a very individualistic western artist. Ask, seek, and knock for myself, but what that then relates to relationally, not just with God, obviously in prayer, but for other people. Yeah, so I've, I've, I've seen this verse use very, very misappropriate. (laughing) Well, hopefully that's not the case this Sunday. So she has justification for any sort of prayer they need. (laughing) We're going to be praying for private jets this Sunday, guys. So get on board, bring your prayer beads. It's going to be a blast. Well, thanks for the chat, as always, man. Thank you. I'll see you all next week. See ya. (upbeat music) Thanks so much for joining us. Don't forget to write and subscribe to help others discover this channel. Check out the description. If you want to find out more or get in touch with us at the Center Journal, but in the meantime, praying for God's hand over you, as you continue to step into everything Jesus has in store for your life. Be blessed. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music)
