(upbeat music) - Hello everybody and welcome to the tip of the iceberg podcast, "Your Home" for Pittsburgh Penguins news and analysis. You can find us on YouTube at tip of the iceberg or anywhere you get your podcast from, I'm your host, Nick Belsky. Joined as always by Nick Horwatt and Horwatt. We are about 24, 25 hours away from Penguins hockey. And now I understand, it is the prospects challenge, but it is still Penguins hockey. There are still players to get excited about and that is what we are gonna do in this episode. It's preview, what you should be watching for on Friday, Saturday and Monday as the Penguins prospects take the ice up in Buffalo. And then we're gonna discuss a little bit of news that came out in the late afternoon yesterday from David Pagnota of the fourth period and discussing the Penguins potentially extending a big piece of their blue line. And then the closed things out will be joined by state of Hoppy of the soda pod to break down the Penguins roster as training camp is slated to begin in the next week. Let's get started. And obviously we're gonna start off with the most exciting thing, which is hockey's back, the Penguins technically have a game to play tomorrow as the prospects challenge kicks off in Buffalo, New York. There's gonna be a couple dozen Penguins prospects on that roster and we'll break down the three players to watch, we'll remind you of the schedule who they're playing coming up. But the first piece of news that came out yesterday from Seth Roarabov, the Tribune Review. Unfortunately, second-rounder Tanner Howe will not participate in this weekend's challenge because he's day-to-day with a facial injury. Now day-to-day means that potentially we see him in training camp before he's sent back to the Regina Pats of the WHL. But unfortunate news that the second round forward is not gonna be joining the Penguins as they had north to Buffalo. - Yeah, it's just an unfortunate process to work through. You just wanted to, in the situation, play a couple of games, get to know your team, get to know your organization, and get to know your peers in the organization too with Tanner Howe and the situation that he's in. But it sounds like you should still at least kind of be around the team. It doesn't sound like it's anything that'll keep him away for too long, like you said day-to-day. You won't be playing in those games, but like you said, probably getting workout, can you work in at training camp if he sticks around for that invite. - So taking a look at the roster besides Tanner Howe, now that he is out, we don't know if they've added anybody in, they haven't announced that yet in his replacement. But if you look at the roster, two first round picks, Owen Pickering and Rucker McGrarty will be on the roster, two second round picks, Harrison Brunick of this year, and Tristan Bros of a couple of years ago will also be on that roster. And with that, I wanted to throw out three players to watch in my eyes. The top three players from the Penguins, heading up to Buffalo, Horawatt will obviously give his opinions as well. And we'll talk about a handful of other names, but the top three players to watch in my eyes are this. Number three, Owen Pickering. This is the beginning of a massive year for him as he turns pro going from juniors and the Swift current Broncos up to the AHL in the Wilkes-Bersch grant in Penguins. He hasn't had a healthy training camp since being drafted by the Pittsburgh Penguins back in 2022. And as he continues to fill out, he always had that big frame, really tall kid, lanky defenseman, he continues to try to fill out. He should be a leader, not just for the blue line, but for this entire Penguins prospect team. He's a guy that we saw in development camp likes to take on those leadership roles. We'll see if he's able to do it over the weekend. We'll see how he performs over the weekend in Buffalo. Number two, I have Sir Game Murishov. He's going to be the goaltender, not the only goaltender as we saw last year, even though everybody wanted to watch Yol Blancfist. And even though Yol Blancfist was stealing the show, he didn't play in every game. And in the games he played, he didn't play the full 60 minutes. They were split because they do want to get work in for multiple goal tenders. But any time Murishov has stepped onto the ice this summer, he's become the story. That was the case at development camp. That's been the case at these informal skates, Taylor Haas of DK Pittsburgh Sports continues to highlight that Murishov is one of the most impressive players out there, again, albeit in an informal skate, but he is the most notable player out there making the most notable plays. Every time he steps on the ice, he becomes the story. I feel like this weekend is going to be no different. He is my second most interesting player to watch this weekend. Number one, it's the only player that has a chance right now to start the season with the Pittsburgh Penguins at the NHL level and has a chance to be an X factor for the Penguins this season. Rucker Magruderi will be on the ice this weekend. So those are my three players to watch, Horwatt Owen Pickering, Sierge Murishov, and Rucker Magruderi. What do you think of that list? And then are there any names that you want to highlight as well that are on that roster this weekend? - I like all three of those names. I agree with all three of those names. I think Magruderi is an obvious choice, obvious reasons as to why he would be a player to watch. First reps, first looks in a Penguins uniform and stepping into what could be an NHL's position soon. Murishov, yeah, definitely just from the pedigree that he's been getting this early in this development here. And then Pickering, I look at it as, I don't wanna, it doesn't feel like make or break, but it feels like time to start stepping up. Let's see some actual progression this time around. I don't wanna say that it seemed like he's kind of declined since being drafted, but it's plateaued a little. It's time to sort of accelerate things and this is just the first step to doing that. To add any names on, I'd say, I have questionable names, but names that you kind of don't really know what their future status looks like with the organization. And that would be Isaac Bellavo, Taylor Go TA, those two just spent the year in the ECHL. And the way there's just a log jam at their respective positions in defense and goal tending, you don't know what their future might hold within this organization. And they become interesting to watch because let's say they impress enough that the Penguins wanna keep them on somehow, or then they've earned a role in some sort of capacity, let's see how they develop further. Or if they impress enough and maybe other names come in down the line and suddenly there's a bit more of a log jam suddenly you're looking at. Okay, here is now this, if they do well, highly touted player that could be used to utilize as a trade shift down the line, that's what makes those two important to watch. And then outside of those two, if I had to pick a forward, even outside of, like we mentioned, vertical rigority, the Silly Pawnomarov. Again, what are those top prospects that it's time to not do something in this organization, but to first cut at the organization here, show yourself a little more than what you had previously 'cause it wasn't much, you know, excuse me. Unfortunate injury came along, but let's prove that you're back to health and ready to perform under this new logo, under this new regime for yourself. - Yeah, and I feel like the same could be said for a guy like Ville Koivunin, both players coming over in that Jake Genssel deal. But if you look at Pawnomarov, he was a player that whenever the trade was made, Kyle Dubas mentioned, hey, this is a kid that could get some NHL ice time to end the season, we kind of want to see what we have in him. He played four games with Wilkesburg Scranton last year and then got injured and missed the rest of the season. So how does he respond with that? How does he come back? How does he try to, as you mentioned, try to really get into the good graces of the organization and get off to a hot start in this training camp because if he was going to be given an opportunity at the NHL level last year, you'd have to imagine that he's pretty high on their priority list going into this year. It's all about positioning in training camp. Can he position himself higher than, you know, Ville Koivunin? Can he position himself higher than Tristan Bros? I would imagine he's already higher than them because Bros obviously is turning pro for the first time this year. But how high can he position himself? That's what this prospects challenge and that's what training camp is all about for guys like Vasily Pawnomarov, guys like Ville Koivunin, guys like Rucker Magordi because it's not a given that he makes that NHL roster. But even if it's expected by, you know, I certainly expect it, but at the same time, as he mentioned, nothing is being given to him. The only thing he's been promised is a slot this weekend. So he's going to have to go out there and improve with the time and the opportunities that he's given. And that's the same for really everybody on this roster. I think it's an interesting roster. Yesterday, I said a couple of names that are flying under the radar, Gabe Klassen, Atley Calvert, and Jack Beck. They were all signed in the same day. They all have immense talent levels. What do they do with this opportunity? 'Cause they were all signed to AHL contracts. And with how bunched up everybody is from NHL to AHL, are they going to be fighting for AHL ice time? Are they going to be bottom six guys in the AHL or if they have a poor camp? Are they going to start the year in the ECHL? These are all things that, you know, are left to be seen and have to be battled out from this point until the beginning of October, whenever the penguins start making their roster cuts and start sending people up to Northeastern Pennsylvania. So this is the start of it. This is the beginning. This is the first time the penguins, in a way, step on the ice since that game against the New York Islanders back in April. I'm excited because it kicks off tomorrow, noon Eastern against the Boston Bruins. Again, as far as watching it, the penguins have yet to announce where you're going to be able to watch it, if you're going to be able to watch it. But if they do end up having a stream, it's going to be on their website for certain and it may be on their YouTube. It's give or take usually with their YouTube channel. So keep an eye out for that. Like I mentioned, they take on the Boston Bruins on Friday at noon, Saturday at noon Eastern as well. They take on the Ottawa Senators and they'll close things out on Monday evening against the Buffalo Sabres at 5 p.m. [MUSIC PLAYING] Let's, before moving over, talking with state of op, because we had a nice conversation with him about, really, log jams and roadblocks for some of these young players in the penguins organization, we want to discuss a little bit of news that came out yesterday. All the focus right now when it comes to the Pittsburgh Penguins is on Sydney's Crosby's contract. But as we learned earlier this week, Crosby has no concerns. In fact, he used the word optimistic several times when describing whether or not he'd sign a contract before the October 9th puck drop against the New York Rangers. So with that on the verge of happening based on what we've heard, the penguins are reportedly set to shift their focus to Marcus Petterson. According to David Pagnoda of the fourth period last night, quote, "Sydney Crosby is the obvious priority for Pittsburgh, but after his new contract is finalized, the Penguins are expected to begin formal talks with Marcus Petterson on an extension as well." "Hooraw, before we get into, should they shouldn't they? Are you surprised that they're already looking to extend Marcus Petterson before this season begins?" No, I don't think I'm too surprised. I believe, whenever we were heading into the off season, we were discussing the Crosby extension and a little quieter, a little shorter, in a little less detail. We were discussing the Marcus Petterson extension as well. Because it is something that very much, I believe, the Penguins want to have happened. They want to extend him for-- I don't know what kind of term because the Penguins are in such a weird limbo. But the Penguins want him around. He's filled the Brian and Dumelen roll exponentially well, and by way of being a great defensive defenseman, probably easily the best on the team. And he's playing with Marcus Petterson, so his offensive numbers are kind of just taking a nice little bump by way of proximity. So he's done really well for himself these last couple of seasons, pulled himself out of trade discussions, pulled himself out of trade talks just from just a couple of years ago to being a much needed player in the organization and in the lineup. So I don't know what kind of deal he's going to ask for. He'll probably ask for a lot. I don't know what time what kind of deal the team is going to look to give him. Again, the Penguins are in such a weird spot. It's tough to really guess. But if everything was sunshine rainbows and roses, it'd be a long-term deal. But with where things are right now, it could still be. It's just a bit more of a question mark. And the money doesn't matter. Pay that man whatever he wants. He's worth it. As far as should they, though, when I look at the Penguins right now, obviously Kyle Dubas is trying to serve two masters, right? He's trying to serve the rebuild and the future of the Penguins. And as he said, close that gap between this contention window, which is close to closed, if not already closed, and the next contention window. He's trying to close that gap. So he's trying to serve that master of the rebuild. But he's also trying to serve the now. This summer, a lot of it was focused on the rebuild. This would be 100% focusing on the now. You do need to keep some players. I understand that. You want to make sure the team is still competitive right now, this season, 2024, 25, because you have Crosby. You have Malkin, you have Latang, you have Carlson. And all of them are still playing at a very high level. But you are committed to so many players. So that's where I get a little bit worried, because I like Marcus Pedersen. I think he is the best defensive defenseman that the Penguins had last year. He is easily going to be the best defensive defenseman they have this year, and probably for the next couple of years, if he does stick around. But you're trying to avoid the fate that we saw the Chicago Blackhawks take on. You're trying to avoid the fate that we saw the Detroit Red Wings take on. And I feel like because of that, you have to trade Marcus Pedersen eventually. And extending him makes that much more difficult, because I understand. You want to keep players around. He's probably the best at what he does on your team. And if you trade him, there's not really anybody that's going to be able to fill that role unless we see miraculous turnarounds from one of Matt Grizzlyk or Ryan Graves. So you're not going to be able to fill that role. But at the same time, you do need to use some of these trade pieces before they decrease in value entirely. You're not going to be able to do it with Brian Rust. He has a full no move clause. You're unlikely to be able to do it with Ricard Raquel because of the season he had last year. Marcus Pedersen, outside of Jake Genssel, is the biggest trade piece the Penguins have had in the last half century, half decade, not century, half decade, that they're actually going to be in a position to trade and not have it be ridiculous, right? They were never going to trade Mulk and they were never going to trade Latang. They were never going to trade Crosby. Pedersen is a name that, in my eyes, you should be looking to move at some point this season whenever the iron strikes the hottest. Not that I don't like him. Not that if he doesn't say, hey, I'll come back very cheap for a bridge deal. I would sign that deal. But again, like you mentioned, Marcus Pedersen is in a position where he's going to try to cash out and I just don't think the Penguins, where they're currently at, in their situation, are in a position to be able to give it to him. - Unless they can convince him that there is something good on the other side of the tunnel. You know what I mean? Unless Kyle Davis can do a great job of convincing Marcus Pedersen that after these two years, after the Mulkin contract is up, after he leaves, likely after Latang leaves as well because that contract, or that, yeah, 'cause that contract will then see a lighter clause on it if they trade him then. Then if you can convince Marcus Pedersen that, hey, there is light at the end of the tunnel for that. There's good things happening. I mean, bringing him Rooka McGory is a good start. Cindy Crosby will probably still be around. That's another good start. You gotta convince him that, and he would be around. So you could tell him, hey, you'll be a number one defenseman on this team. Number two, behind Eric Carlson, but he'll be aging. So maybe you get that number one slide. That's what you kinda have to bill him on. Hey, promise we can promise you there will be good things happening at the end of the tunnel. We will still be competitive and look at Rooka McGory coming in. Like we just discussed all these prospects. Look what they can do. Here's how good they can be, and we're still adding. Even if we suck this year, another high draft pick that's gonna come around maybe. Again, it's not ideal, it's a rough situation, and the timing doesn't line up for this sort of thing because, right, Marcus Patterson is probably looking to cash in. Probably for a long-term deal with the most money he can get. The Penguins aren't in a position to hand out deals like that if you look at the off-season they had, especially not. Max two years for everybody. We'll see what they do, but if Kyle did was can convince Marcus Patterson and his camp, good things are coming down the line, then they'd have to pull through with it, but also I'm sure Marcus Patterson will make sure there's not a full no move or be quick to wave something if need be. - Yeah, I mean, if you're in Patterson's situation, you mentioned the two-year timeline. At the end of that two-year timeline, Patterson will be 30. So that is a factor into this. He hasn't won a Stanley Cup. I don't think he's won a playoff series. So if that is important to him and he knows that he's gonna have value around the league, maybe if he gets to free agency, which means if this takes long like the Gensil one did last year, maybe he looks at this and says, listen, if you're trying to sell me that bill of goods of take a lower deal, stick around for the rebuild. It's gonna be good. You've built your career in Pittsburgh. If you're trying to sell him that bill of goods, he could also look at it and say, okay, but I'm not gonna have team success. And I know that I can make more money because you're trying to get me on a cheaper deal. I know I can make more money on the open market because he will. I think that's a hard sell. But the one thing that I wanna ask you again, just plain and simple, should the Penguins be interested in re-signing? Marcus Patterson to an extension. Should they be doing this? Or should they look at him the way I'm looking at him as their best trade chip going into the season? - I'm on the side of re-signing 'cause I'm holding out that sort of hope that they can sell them on good things to come at the end of the tunnel. That whole spiel that I just went on, I'm kind of holding on hope. That's what can happen for this team, for my own mentality and for the team itself. - So you're saying if he comes in at a reasonable number? - Yeah, which, because he doesn't play that high-flying offensive style of defense, he should be able to. I don't know what reasonable is, especially, the cap's going up. - Yeah, I mean, it's-- - Cap is going up, but let me just throw this out to you. I put that projection out there earlier this summer, six years, 5.73, or 7.13 million dollars per year. Do you sign him to that deal? - Was that the Dummelen deal? - No, Dummelen signed for, I believe, 4.1 million a year. - Of course he did. - Of course the cap was-- - The cap at the time, yeah. - That was six years ago, seven years ago, before the COVID situation and everything like that. - You know what, I think so. I think so. The cap is supposed to go up pretty quickly. In each passing season, we'll continue to go up. Yeah, you gotta increase the payment on Crosby, but I think I would, especially if you're able to get him, especially if there's no clauses attached to that, or slimmer clauses attached to that, when we get to that at the end of that two years. All right, we actually have nothing at the end of the tunnel. Pick a team, here you go. But, eh, 'cause he's gonna play worth it, almost. It's not crossing six, and that's kinda where I think that the ceiling would be for something like this. - I'm not worried about him performing. Even though he will be at the end of that deal, 34. I'm not as worried about him performing, and I'm not as worried about the actual contract details. What I'm worried about is, what I mentioned to start this entire thing off. Chicago, Detroit, Pittsburgh doesn't wanna become the third member of that, right? Detroit was great in the 2000s, one of the best teams that we've seen, and they sucked for what, 10 years? They still haven't made it back to the playoffs. Chicago is in the same boat. 2015, they got there, they won, since then, nothing. That's going on 10 years of nothing, and they are nowhere close. Are you really, the more players you do this with, the longer it's going to take to get back. And again, I have faith in Kyle Dubas in this rebuilding process, but you can't hold on to all of your chips. You can't do it. Eventually, you have to trade him. He was forced into trading against the last year. I thought he got a good package. I thought he helped accelerate the rebuild a little bit, or at least kick off, not accelerate. That was the kickoff. I think you have to at least keep it open to doing the same with Pedersen. So that's where I stand. I like Pedersen. I'd love to see him stick around. I'd love to see him be able to usher in a new generation of defensive defenseman for the Penguins, but where the Penguins stand right now? There might be one foot in one foot out, but with a guy like Pedersen, you need to be 10 toes down into, hey, you're going to be on the trade market this year, not because we don't like you, but because that's what the organization calls for, and that's where our current situation is. Again, other people might disagree, but I think the Penguins are in a position where while it'd be nice to have a guy like Pedersen around, it's better to try to expedite the rebuild a little bit more, close that gap a little bit more, and be able to get what I would expect is a very hefty package for Pedersen, depending on what time of the year the actual trade is made and what time of the year his stock is the highest. - Yeah, and to go on a point that you've mentioned there of how you don't want to keep all your chips around, the beauty is in my head, Pedersen might be the only one I want to keep around. All can we know is going to leave anyway. I just said they might trade Latang in two years, I've been trying to bang on the trade recorder Kelle Drum for multiple seasons now. Brian Rust wants that trade clause elevates a bit, maybe they make that decision, it's tough, but maybe you make that decision. The entire bottom six XF for Drew O'Connor might not even be here in two seasons. And I mean, they would have traded grapes as they could have found a taker. So in my head, at least going off at that point, yeah, the penguins aren't keeping all their chips, it's that one and Sydney Crosby, so that to those two. - Yeah, here's the problem. Those other chips are stale as hell. If I'm trying to trade up for-- - Yeah, first. - Malcolm, you're not getting anything back for, he's retiring and walking into the sunset, which fine, he has the right to do so. But that's not helping your rebuild, that's to be back anything in exchange. The only piece, I mean, Brian Rust, like you mentioned, whenever his trade clause goes down, he's gonna be, what, 34, 35? Are other teams gonna be, yeah, here's a sixth round pick. Well, that's great. Can't wait to take a jump on a sixth round pick and eventually hope he turns into something. No, the one piece that you have that is worth of actual value that can actually bring in multiple assets to help your rebuild is Marcus Patterson. It's the only one. I mean, Crosby is, but that's not happening. Not now, not ever, if I'm Kyle Dubas. Marcus Patterson's that one, and that is the chip that, listen, you might wanna keep him, but it is gonna be much better for your organization's future if you're able to shop him and get a good deal for him. Again, don't take any deal, but I think his value this year is gonna get high enough, especially if he's on an expiring deal that you're gonna be able to get a good bit for him. Now, if you can extend him and still trade him, best case scenario 'cause you're getting more 'cause you're selling a future for other teams, but as he goes into the season, I would not extend him with a thought process of keeping him personally. But that's where we differ, and that's fine. Let us know in the comments section. What would you do? Would you extend Marcus Patterson, or would you use him as a trade chip in the 2024-25 season? Let's take a quick break, and when we come back, joined by state of hobby of the soda pod, breaking down the penguins' roster, some of these roadblocks, some of these hurdles that these young guys have to go over, a great conversation with state of hobby right after this. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Welcome back to the tip of the iceberg podcast, your home for Pittsburgh penguins, news, and analysis. We are joined right now by state of hobby, host of the soda pod. You can also find him talking Minnesota College Hockey on MNCAA, he's a long time penguins fan, and a long time friend of the show. Follow him on X at state of hobby. Welcome to the show. - We're going with that now, huh? We're calling it X straight up. - Trying to try it. So you see the little logos below us. X formerly known as Twitter. I've called it Twitter for months now. At this point, I just got to put it in there that it's X 'cause everybody knows what it is either way. - No, no, I mean, it's good either way. I just, I refuse to cave to Elon, so. - Hey, Twitter. X is the legal name of it. It's what you should. - Government name, but yeah. But in all the writing I do, I still say Twitter. I don't even say X because first of all, it looks dumb if you're typing it out and reading it. But secondly, everyone does know what it is. Every time we send a tweet in Slack, it comes up X formerly known as Twitter. So you'll know what it is. - Well, that, what did you say? Every time we send a tweet, so it, okay. You can find him on Twitter at state of hobby, but let's jump into some of these topics here because the one thing that we kind of bounce back and forth with Hoppy is the Rucker-McGrarty trade. Whenever it happened, you were the first person to reach out to me and you were, let's just say less than enthused about the deal whenever it first came out. So I wanted to ask you now, a couple of weeks removed, have your opinions changed on it at all? Or do you still think this is kind of not the greatest move for the penguins in this prospect swap? - No, I mean, in fairness, like I calmed down 30 minutes later. Like it was very, very knee-jerk because the second I saw the news break that Rucker-McGrarty was going to the penguins, I'm like, they're going to do it. They're going to send Yeager and I'm going to break things. Like, and this, this goes back because Judd's Bud's another show that I run with Spoke Z who is like the prospect whisperer. Guy knows more about each draft class than I can forget. And he is a guy that had me so excited, so sold on the player that went right before the penguins in the 2023 draft. The midget that can do anything. I was so, so sad when he went to Buffalo. And so like, I was naturally just very disappointed with the Braden Yeager pick 'cause you couldn't say anything to me to get me on board with not getting my guy. Then he finally, like a couple of months ago, had me fully on board, like very excited about Braden Yeager. I loved the whole bit with him and the kid where like he asked him to sign his stuff as Sidney Crosby. He's like, what is going on here? But I was very excited about him, really high ceiling. I still, the thing for me is making what's on paper arguably an even trade when a peg had their backs against the wall. They had no choice here. You have a college player who can play one more season and he's a free agent. Like everyone's like, oh, there was so much interest. Well, then why didn't another deal get done sooner? Like they knew for a while he did not wanna go there 'cause he was not on board with their view for his development path. Like they wanted to send him to the AHL. So now I love him as a player, like crushed it for world juniors. Obviously, you know, Catherine and Gold medals, no big deal. But like he's been sick in Michigan. He has tormented the gophers for the past couple of years. And he's a guy that I absolutely think is like an NHL player. What speed is the biggest concern? I'm sure that's what you guys have been hearing from everyone. But for me, the bigger thing with this trade, whether I'm okay with it or not, I think there's more ceiling for Jaeger, but there's way more guarantee and floor with Magrardi. I need to, for this to be worth it, I need to see him on the third line at a minimum by the end of October. If he's playing AHL minutes, this was dumb because the real benefit to this was accelerating and getting, again, not the same player from a fit, but same caliber of talent, but you're getting him a year or so earlier. And if that plays out, then, hey, you know what? I get it, Dubis. I'm sure feed it to the fire with this new ownership group wanting to sell tickets. So I'm okay with it. And I love Rucker Magrardi. I'm very upset that they sent Braden Jaeger 'cause I don't understand why that had to be the return piece. - I think just to make that all work out, when I first saw the deal break and it was just Magrardi's name attached, I think I jumped immediately to Sam Poulan. I think that's the end of that train. He's got a couple of games of NHL experience, so you might be ready to jump into the Jets lineup. I don't know how deep they are necessarily in prospects, but I mean, they got Jaeger, which is another great addition for them. And seeing that you are coming around to Rucker Magrardi a little more, if he is to make the Penguins roster or even by late October be on the team, is he up there with one of the guys that you would suspect is being the best addition for the Penguins this upcoming season, not just down the line? And if it's not him, who else could it be? - I mean, the tough thing is for Pittsburgh, and Minnesota this year, guys, there's young players that deserve and warrant chances. We have some clustered lineups. Like there are so many guys that you're trying to fit into this roster that some of them are Dubis guys, some of them are guys that, hey, maybe they don't pan out and we're trying to give them this last chance, like a couple of guys that come to mind with that, Cody Glass, right? Pedigree's there. We saw where he got drafted. Things haven't been great since, but again, he's had two different stints where he hasn't really seen full playing time minus one season. Then we've got a guy like Anthony Beauvilla, who this is absolutely sealing here. I don't expect this, but like best case scenario, maybe he pans out to be like a Carl Haglund. This is a guy that can skate like that is his calling card. He can stretch the ice for a guy like Malk and he can be a good utility player for a third line if it pans out. So like they got a lot of dart throws they're gonna make, which gives you optimism, like, hey, we can find a way to fit this all together. The real question is how long does it take for them to sort through that? Again, that's why like giving him October and crazy October for the Penguins too. 12 games in a shortened month when the wild comparatively only played nine, granted the first two were at home and the rest are on the road. So maybe that's part of it, but you've got to get some of this figured out by the end of October. And I think once some of that shuffles out, there's gonna be players that just aren't gonna be part of this group. So if he's not part of the opening night roster, I'm fine with that. He earns a spot, awesome, I'm all for it, but I think that he needs to be part of that group come, you know, November 1st or whenever their first game in November hits. - Yeah, you mentioned the fact that they have so many young players. I mean, obviously the Gensil trade brought in too in Visily Ponomara and Villy Koivoon and who are both gonna be at bare minimum, the American Hockey League to start the season. And you bring in all these other names and it almost seems like they're roadblocks for these young players. At least that's how I feel like a lot of the fan base sees it as well, you had these young players, you wanna get younger, why would you sign the 27 year old Beauvillea? Why would you bring in a 25 year old in Cody Glass who it didn't work out in Vegas and it didn't work out in Nashville? Do you expect it to work out in Pittsburgh? I think the biggest thing for the Penguins is you mentioned it there, they're darthros, they're in a situation where they didn't have to pay for Cody Glass. In fact, they got paid for Cody Glass and Anthony Beauvillea was a cheap free agent option. These are guys that the Penguins right now are just saying, we are hoping for a good season on the ice, but we're not risking the future and the future is coming quickly, but we also still need to be able to kind of temper ourselves and temper expectations for these young guys because Koi Vounen was great last year in Europe. Ponomarev has been good in the American Hockey League, but are they ready to take that next step? And are the Penguins in a position where they can really push some of these guys and potentially burn some of these guys if they put them in there too early? They don't have enough prospects to do that. So I think a lot of this is also being safe and being cautious with the limited number of high end prospects or really, I mean, for the Penguins high end prospects for NHL standards, mid-end prospects that they're able to have at this stage of the game. Yeah, totally, and another addition too, with Kevin Hayes, I know there's people that are not happy about getting even older, but like, again, you're paid to take on this guy who talked about foot speed with McGrarty, definitely gonna be the concern with Hayes, but this is a guy that can still play, and if he's going in your bottom six, you're thrilled, and he's just a great locker room addition too, amidst like a weird time where you've got the aging superstars running stuff, but then you've got like a weird group beneath that you're trying to integrate in, like he's just a good locker room dude in general. Yeah, it's funny though, 'cause like the wild are the exact same, man. Like it literally is fans freaking out about players being blocked. Like we have a good probably two or three guys that people wanna see playing in the middle six and it's like, there's no way you're gonna get that. Like you look at the money that's being paid to guys, you look at how they've been added, when they were added, there's just not spots, but one thing I'll give I guess is just like, benefit of the doubt per guy like Cody Glass, right? Oh, it didn't work in Vegas. Oh, it didn't work in Nashville. You know, Ryan Hartman is a really good example of that going a different path, right? Like he was a high draft pick first round guy just did not for whatever reason work at his first stop. He goes to Minnesota and sees a ton of success. The key here is if Cody Glass makes the roster, and then again, maybe he just doesn't even make the group to start the year, if he does, you have to at least give him looks in the top six because a player like him, if you throw him in your bottom six, he's not gonna do shit, he's not. Like he needs to have a chance to play with players that give him a chance to actually be creative and go out and capitalize on that pedigree he's got. So I either want him not in the lineup or I want him to at least get some sniffs in the top six. - That's something we've seen early in preseason. It's Mike Sullivan, you know, two years ago put Pustin in up there even before he made his NHL debut. Last year, I believe it was a, Sam Pulland got a couple opportunities in like the first two days of camp to play in, you know, elevated lines. So it's something just to steal it at times. - But it was another name. It just escaped me. Went to college with Brian Russ to help me out here. Vinny Hennistroza, he started like training camp playing alongside Sydney Crosby. So, I mean, of course, starting training camp next to Sydney Crosby doesn't mean too much, but it shows that the organization might have some expectations that you can do something. And I think at least, you know, in Hennistroza's case, there was the expectation of you'll be around for the year and we'll figure things out. And then let's say Cody Glass starts on a line with Sydney Crosby in camp. Sure, it's just through the shuffle, but that will show that, hey, you, we expect you to do something here. And with the money he's making too, I would hope they think the same way. - And do we think that Malcolm plays first or second line wing now that they picked up Sebastian Ojo? You know, you know, I didn't know where you were going with that when you brought it up, but at the end of it, you know, I should have expected it. But I would say probably third line wing is the best fit at this point. - I think they should train him. Yeah, he's a bum. - Yeah, exactly. And I think there's a lot of-- - Sorry, X, X. - That's exactly what it says. And honestly, it's exactly what a lot of our comments section says as well. So I'm sure you're going to make a lot of friends early. - You know, he does need to have a better year though, like straight up everyone except for Sydney Crosby does, if we're being honest. Like that's my biggest concern going into this year. This is probably the first time I've ever like not had them penciled into the playoffs. Because if you're telling me that Sydney Crosby's going to have a heart trophy caliber season and they're going to miss, I'm not saying he's going to fall off. I don't think he's going to do any better than what he did last year. So he really needs other players to step up and elevate their games. I'm not sure that I've seen enough in the off season or with bringing in one coach who will maybe, you know, besides being butt buddies with Sully, like maybe he can make the power play okay? But like, what's going to be different besides, oh, we threw in a couple of bodies that are all big dice rolls. Yeah, as far as just roster construction goes, not very much. I mean, it's kind of, you know, we use this term probably a little bit too much but like shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic. As you know, the Penguins are, they're not opening their window. Their window is probably closed but we'll say for the sake of argument, there's a little sliver, right? You know, it's fall, you want a little bit of that air coming in but not too much 'cause it's cold. So that's where the Penguins are at. And I think a large part of this and you mentioned his name there is Mike Sullivan. You know, a lot of people were saying early in this offseason, oh, well Sullivan's got to be on the hot seat. Sullivan's got to be on the hot seat. That has quieted down a lot as time has gone on. And now you look at last week, the NHL actually named Mike Sullivan the fifth best head coach going into this season. How confident are you in Sully heading into his 10th season behind the bench to be able to figure all of these chess pieces out to get the most out of a roster that as you mentioned, as of right now when you're looking at it on paper, you wouldn't pencil into a playoff spot. - Man, that's a loaded question because I like, you know very well, I am a huge, huge Sullivan supporter in general. Like from the beginning, I have been the one like banging for him to be given more like nationwide recognition. And now he's getting it when I'm like, oh, okay, I'm kinda like, I still think he's a great coach. I think if for some reason they parted ways, he would be hired instantly and he would do a great job over your lands. You just wonder if like the message goes stale at some point, like that's a long time to be the head coach. And especially with like a group like Sid, Gino, Latang, like at a certain point, do they just kinda not tune out, but you're not getting the same things from him to ramp up your game? I do still think he's a good coach though. I think it's gonna be interesting to see what bringing in his buddy does. Like again, the team wasn't awful in most areas of the game. It was really special teams that we need to improve. So like, if we can even get a little a marginal improvement, like be a middle of the road power play, that makes a huge difference. If we get a healthy Tristan Jerry, that makes a big difference, right? But some big gifts, really big gifts. And not only that, but do you see that bringing in Quinn as an assistant, he's supposed to help the power play. Could his former knowledge of Eric Carlson help that out? Not just adding to the power play, but also just do Carlson's overall game in what will be his second season at Pittsburgh now? I've gotta think so. And I think anyone that doesn't believe that Carlson was asked about this hire before it happened is crazy. Like he absolutely signed off on it or at least didn't deter it. Granted, I think Sully was gonna make that final decision at the end of the day. But if you've got your top offensive power on the blue line saying, I do not want to play for this coach, they're not bringing him in. It's not gonna happen. So there's gotta be something to that for what? I think it's a good call, but again, what's the rest of the personnel look like? 'Cause it really was Carlson running those power plays. I don't know if Pittsburgh is an organization that's willing to let that happen with Malcolm and Crosby in the group, right? And maybe it's a good thing. Maybe it opens more up and you find more opportunities for those guys, but it is something where if Quinn's coming in and he's gonna try and replicate what they did in San Jose, Carlson's gonna be running everything, which maybe that ends up being a good thing. And I think the one thing I look at with the whole Quinn discussion is, this is essentially the discussion we had when Reardon was hired for the second time in Pittsburgh was, well, Reardon really helped out Chris Latang, Chris Latang and Reardon two peas in a pod, they work well together. So it's going to help Latang. The question then became that nobody asked, well, what does it mean for the rest of the defense? - For everyone else, yeah. - So for Quinn, what does it mean for Chris Latang? What does it mean for specifically a guy like a Ryan Graves or even a Matt Grizzlick, players that the Penguins are hoping kind of hit that revitalization this year, where you look at the left side and if they're gonna find any success, they need one or both of those guys to have not just better seasons, but significantly better seasons than what they've shown over the last, well, for Graves last year, but for Grizzlick, the last two years in Boston. - And how crazy is it guys? 'Cause again, I'm kind of negative going into this season, especially compared to others. If you just erase this past season from your memory, like it never happened and you look at the roster, aside from being a little long in the tooth, like you're looking at this and saying it's a pretty good roster, right? Like the names make sense. It's not poorly constructed. It just has not worked. And whether that's a coaching issue, whether that's just not finding the right balance of who should be on which line or which pairing, I don't know, but there's definitely a world where they come in and they are a playoff team. It's just what I saw last year. I'm really, really not about that. Who are we thinking is going to be the third pairing guy next to Grizzlick? - See, the problem I have is, I don't know if Grizzlick starts on the third pairing. - Why not? - I feel like Ryan Graves, the way that he performed last year, I feel like there's a chance that they say, "All right, start the year on that third pairing," and put him with somebody a little bit more reliable that fits his style more, like a Jaxie and Ivy, which I think is not the leader in the clubhouse, but a guy like Sebastian Ajo, the right one, I think having him start with somebody there is what's best for Graves, or at least what I think the Penguins will think of that. And I think they'll expect Grizzlick, away from Montgomery, will be able to play alongside Latang, which scares the daylights out of me. But I think that's something that they're going to look at as a potential option to try to get the best out of both of those two. - Does the number 2.75 mean anything to you? Yes, yeah, I mean, when I look at that, and I look at the number that Ryan Graves has as well, I think the problem being the Penguins can't afford Ryan Graves to be just as bad as he was before. - I'm not disagreeing with that at all. I'm just saying, to start the year, there are not many front offices willing to bench the guys making money. They're just not. Like, unless he flat out gets no questions asked, beat out by someone else, Grizzlick will be in this lineup as will Graves. And hand up, when the Penguins signed Graves, I was excited. Sam, I really liked what I saw from him in Colorado. I thought he was fine in New Jersey. And I'm like, oh man, this is like a really sneaky good move by Kyle Dubas. I was not expecting this. Wow, is that wrong? And granted, that's one season, like I'm not writing them off entirely. But, oh man, does he have some work to do to get back in my good graces? That was bad. - On the bright side, though, he can't get much worse, right? - True, hey, it can only get better. Same with the power play, like 30. You're not gonna go down to 32. - You would hope. - You would certainly hope. But, Hora, you were saying something sorry to Kyle. - You're good, just Ryan Graves, one year in, five to go. And when it comes to Grizzlick's 2.75, I think the added benefit, like, yeah, the organization's gonna wanna play the guys making money. It's only a year. If need be, I mean, you just kind of suck that one up and figure it out. I mean, there's supposed to be a decent amount of movement going on, you know, on the waiver wire, on the trade market before the season even starts. I know they just got 'em, not to like assume all that. But, there could be all kind of wild movement that we just didn't expect. And if a guy like Matt Grizzlick, or Ryan Graves even, just get beat straight up and by an unexpected name. - Yeah, very. - Yeah, I was gonna say, looking at the left side, I don't even know who could be a candidate for that. - No, it's tough, but there could be all kind of wild maneuvers. We'll see how it goes, but I mean, you're right. This lineup is better, if not just a bit more bloated. - Yeah, and with Grizzlick too, like you said it a lot. The recency, like it's not like he's been on the team for four years, like he's a recent dad, the money talks, and I like him as a third-parent guy. Like if he's elevated in the lineup, not as thrilled, but like him on your third pairing is totally fine with me. I don't think, like you could do a lot worse than a Matt Grizzlick as your five or six. - Yeah, and there'll be plenty of names fighting for those spots, it just does feel like at least a lot of the names are sort of already penciled in. It's just a matter of formality at this point to go through a training camp. - Yeah, now-- - That being said-- - I was gonna say-- - Quickly, Justin. - I know you had one specific question that you wanted to ask, so I'll let you get to that. - Quick, Justin, before we kind of start wrapping here, but Mark Andrei Flurry is about to enter his farewell tour season. We know his legacy sort of lives in Pittsburgh and Vegas, but we don't need to discuss his full career legacy or what even is too common his last season, but just how will Minnesota and the state of hockey remember Mark Andrei Flurry for his couple of years there? I mean, obviously he's not the career goalie there, but he's set and broke a lot of those records in a Minnesota wild uniform. Just what has he meant to that state? What will he mean to that state going forward? - Oh yeah, fans have pretty much all but put aside any memory of him being at Pittsburgh, Penguin. Like he is theirs, they are obsessed. Like just the personality, right? Like he's such a polarizing guy, that the war he had this past year going back and forth with Brandon Doohame just not learning his lesson with the prank wars, it's incredible stuff, but it's hard not to like the guy. And again, like consummate pro, like what a career. It really sucks that like they're in the goalie spot that they are though. Like it is the worst case scenario with having three guys that they claim they're going to play all three. And I don't know how that can possibly work. I have never seen a three goalie rotation that makes any sense in the world. I think it's bad for Wallstead's development. I think Gustafson's far and away their best goalie. Yeah, last year wasn't great. I think he is still quite a goalie. And I'm sure they're still trying to trade him for God knows what reason, 'cause then I don't know who's going to be playing with Wallstead next year. And then you've got Flurry's story shadowing over all of it where like even if he's playing bad, you're probably not going to be benching him unless he's atrocious. It's just a really, really hard act to juggle for the coach and for the front office. But Mark Andrei Flurry playing his final year in Minnesota gonna sell tickets, right? Like I already got a ticket for the final game of the season 'cause you got to assume that's his farewell tour, right? So I don't know, it's really cool to have him here. I think you guys know my opinion on Mark Andrei Flurry pretty well, I love the guy. I think he is a great player. The people that like five years ago said he's already a first ballot Hall of Fame or I think they're off their rocker. If you just like look at the body of his work and yeah, there's been good years. Oh, people forget the bad years way too quickly. They didn't have to suffer through them like the three of us did. Man, the amount of years that the Penguins should have been contending for a cup that he prevented them from doing insane. Like he single handedly at least two or three post seasons was like, nah, this isn't the year. But I love him. Still love Mark Andrei Flurry. He is a Hall of Famer, but the people that are like just like he's the best goalie ever. I'm sorry, you're not gonna get me on board with that. - They needed a guy like Thomas Mancoon to step up one season, right? - That's right. (laughing) - I was wondering who was gonna bring up Mancoon first. Well, no, he's got three Stanley Cups guys, don't you know? He's got three Stanley Cups. - No, he's got like one and a half if we're gonna really hedge it. - Yeah. - Like 16, no, 17. I will gladly give him half a cup because Penguins do not make it past the second round. If he doesn't step up his game when Murray's hurt. He was so good in that series against Washington. Like he was good enough in that series that I've pretty much forgave him for all of his past wrongdoings in like Stanley Cup playoffs. That was insane hockey, but guess what? Murray went right back in the second he was healthy. So enough of the, oh, he's got three Stanley Cups. He's so good. Like I love Mark Andrei Flurry. Awesome person, good goalie. He is not the legend. Like I am not putting him above a Patrick Waugh or a Dominic Hoshik, not happening. - Now the question that, you know, everybody in the comment section is going to go after this as well. He doesn't like Flurry, but I think I want everybody to know. - I love him. - Hoppy, it loves Flurry, but he also isn't looking at Flurry's career with Rose Colored Glasses saying because of this, I ignore this. It's one of the few people that can look past the personality. He's no longer sitting on the plains of Sidney Crosby. I don't have to pull punches. I don't have to be nice. He's had great parts of his career. He's had really bad ones that people like to ignore. That's all I'm saying. Love him. - We know, you know, we couldn't let you go without getting at least one Flurry take from your hoppy, but we appreciate you coming on, spending a little time with us this afternoon, preparing for the 2024, 25 season, but let everybody know what's coming up for you on your myriad of shows that you like to do, and what are you excited for in the 24/25 season? And also, where can people find you? On X or Twitter, whichever you want to call it. - Oh boy, that's a lot of things you just assigned to me. - I did. - All right, I'll go with the last one first. At State of Hoppy, everywhere. Whatever you want to call it, whatever platform it is, that's how you find me. If you have any interest in NHL draft prep, we do it all year on JUDS BUDs, spelled with Z's, J-U-D-D-Z, B-U-D-Z, in honor of the fearless leader, Judd Brackett. Anything you want to see video related is on the SOTAPOD YouTube channel for all of these different shows. Our newest show that we kicked off last spring, Fellowship of a Rink with Insider for your Minnesota wild, Joe Smith, Transplant from Tampa. We actually have a really good one that people should be watching for. The week of the season opener. We banked an interview with Dean Evison, the scorned coach who will be returning for that opening game, which, it's gonna be a weird game, guys, like everything that happened this summer on top of the Dean Evison story. Like, you know, I'm hanging the jersey behind me until we get to there, but like, there's nothing more that can be said about the Goudreau's just awesome people, sad to lose to such a senseless, easily avoidable tragedy. But, yes, check that out. And you guys know the stuff Eashia and I have done for a long time. We've kind of divided and conquered more now. So, he and I, once a month, they're gonna do like one big like throw down, like, hey, what happened in the past month, what's coming up all across the NHL. But outside that, he and I are pretty much recording separate and managing our own stuff. So, yeah. I'm guessing no one on here is gonna care at all about our college hockey stuff. In a year, though, when L.J. Mooney follows the path of Logan Cooley in place for the gophers, may you guys will care then. So, that kid's gonna be a stud. He's gonna be a short king. - Plenty of irons in the fire. State of Hoppy, thank you so much for joining us. And thank you to everybody for tuning in. You can find us on YouTube at Tip of the Iceberg or anywhere you get your podcasts from. We'll see you guys next time. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)
