Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard

Daniel Jones staying as Giants' starting QB, where do they go from here? 2025 NFL Draft talk

Duration:: 2h 45m
Broadcast on:: 10 Sep 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

Brian Daboll said Daniel Jones will remain the Giants' starting quarterback for Week 2 at Washington. New York Daily News NFL columnist Pat Leonard breaks down the top QBs in Division I college football with an eye on the 2025 NFL Draft and also dishes the latest on the Giants' team and roster entering a pivotal NFC East game against the Commanders. SUBSCRIBE to the @PLonNFL YouTube page to get the latest Giants updates and news delivered directly to you, and to participate in regular LIVE Q&A chats with Pat. Purchase a Super Chat or Super Sticker to have your comments elevated to the top of the feed and have Pat answer your question FIRST! Watch the full video of this podcast on Pat's YouTube Channel. Find Pat also on 'X' (@PLeonardNYDN), Instagram (@PLonNFL) & TikTok (@PLonNFL). Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard is sponsored by @BoomChaga, the BOOM Chaga Mushroom SuperDrink, a natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory, immune-boosting antioxidants and heart-healthy compounds. We are also sponsored by @BetOnlineag_Official and @Estate98Coffee on @Bleav.

"My dad works in B2B marketing. "He came by my school for career day "and said he was a big row as man. "Then he told everyone how much he loved "calculating his return on ad spend. "My friends still laughing at me to this day." - Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to linkedin.com/results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com/results. Terms and conditions apply. Linked in, the place to be, to be. - All right, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Talkin' Ball Live with Pat Leonard. Let's get through this together, everybody. Let's get through this early going of the season, through this week one disaster against the Vikings, through the organization's turmoil, the indecision, the confusion about where this is going, what it means for the Giants present for their future, where they stand, and what decisions are coming up on deck for them, obviously, we're talking about, really, the general manager seat, the head coaching seat, the quarterback's job, Daniel Jones. The latest news on Daniel is that he will remain the starter for week two against the Washington commanders, that's straight from Brian Dable. Not only that, Daniel Jones will be the starter, and Dable and the Giants are, according to the head coach, not considering or discussing, bringing in another quarterback, if Jones, for some reason, ends up getting benched or not being the starter at some point. Dable did say Drew Locke is healthy enough to play as normal if needed. However, he gives Daniel Jones all the snaps in practice, and he has no plans, I asked him directly, he has no plans to change the way that he runs practice with the quarterbacks, no plans to add snaps or change the rep count for Drew Locke and Tommy DeVito behind Daniel Jones. So, despite the outcry, despite the frustration, and despite the fact that, as we all know, Daniel Jones didn't play well enough, and a lot of the fan base doesn't wanna see him under center anymore, the organization is going to continue to run him out there, and we all know that it has to turn around now or it's not going to turn around at all. Washington commanders, week two on the road. We'll talk about that, we'll talk about why they're maybe making this decision with Daniel at the moment, where it stands, and why I feel the organization is going this route, and what the potential ramifications are, we will get into that. I hope all of you already checked out, first down with Benny Fowler, that's going to be our weekly Monday recap of the action around the league. So, we talked giants, we also talked CJ Stroud and the Texans, we talked Dak Prescott, New Contract, and the Dallas Cowboys, Saequan Barkley, Kansas City Chiefs, and some surprises that popped up. Top storylines, the crazy Tyree Kil incident, and then him scoring that touchdown, doing the handcuffs celebration. We get into all of the nuts and bolts of the top storylines throughout the league, but we also taught giants, and Benny Fowler played with Daniel Jones here in New York. He's a good friend of Daniels, he respects him a lot, but even Benny had just direct words to say about Daniel's job and his performance. He said, you're getting paid a lot of money to perform at a high level, you're the quarterback, and you can't keep making the same mistakes. And he said, basically, it comes down to, you're not seeing progress, you're seeing the same old, you're not seeing a progression of the quarterback's development there, of the skills being honed and augmented and improved in the offense taking off. And it falls on the coach, it falls on the roster construction that Benny described as not complimentary and not fitting together as a whole. But it does stand on Daniel Jones, even if it's a little too much to see fans heckling him coming out of the player's entrance as we saw in that video after the game. It does hold that the booing is for a reason, and it is justified. The play is not good enough. The team is not good enough all the way on down and it starts with the QB. Wanna tell you about our sponsors? And then we're going to get right into some encouraging and positive quarterback talk, and we will get to our trivia question where the first fan who gets the trivia question correct will win a free bottle of a state 98 coffee, a state 98, of course, one of our sponsors here on Talking Ball live with Pat Leonard. We are brought to you here by a state 98 coffee in all-natural specialty coffee with no sugar that is convenient for on-the-go professionals and parents. Takes me less than 10 seconds to make a delicious estate 98 iced coffee and only a minute more to make a hot coffee or latte from this all-natural concentrate. Go to estate98.com/talkingball to get a special buy one, get one free deal. Also brought to you by BoomChaga Mushroom Super Drink, a natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory immune boosting antioxidants and heart healthy compounds. You can easily pour this natural liquid supplement into any of your favorite drinks. I put mine in my coffee every morning and immediately feel the difference. I personally have felt a post-workout like energy boost with Boom. Chaga also has the ability to lower cholesterol, reduce inflammation and improve immune and heart health. With its beta gluten and antioxidants, go to boomchaga.com today to place your first order. And if you use the discount code on your screen, Talking Ball 25 or the QR code that you see here below, you'll get 25% off your first subscribe and save order. Right now, that means a month's supply cost you only $30. Start feeling the difference today at boomchaga.com. Also brought to you by BetOnline, the world's most trusted betting platform and your number one source for everything football. BetOnline is every stat, match up and even live odds and spreads to BetOnline during the games. Think you know your stuff, get in on our $200,000 mega contest and pick five games against the spread every week for your chance at weekly prizes and a share of $200K. When the game's over, head on over to our online casino and get in on a game of Blackjack or poker or unwind with one of our over 150 slot games. Head to the website today to get in on the action. BetOnline, the game starts here. And our trivia question today takes us to a topic that I think will put some smiles on Giants fans' faces, especially the Giants fans who have already thrown in the towel on this version of the team. And this has to do with the top quarterbacks in college football in NCAA Division I and the Giants potentially with a number two, three, four, five overall pick next year. If they continue on the trajectory, they showed us in week one in the market for a quarterback, for a top quarterback for a first round quarterback and some of the names that stand out right now in the Heisman race, right? Quinn Ewers, University of Texas, Cam Ward at Miami, Jackson Dart Ole Miss. Shadora Sanders, of course, loses to Nebraska, falls out of that Heisman leading candidate contender Chase, but a name to watch. And of course, Carson Beck from Georgia. So those are some of the quarterbacks we're gonna talk about here quickly as we get into where the Giants are looking and what directions they may go. And my trivia question is a simple one. Of the names I just read, of those top college quarterbacks I just talked about, that could be on the Giants radar at the top of the first round next year. Which of them has the most passing yards through two weeks of the college football season? Again, they are Quinn Ewers, Cam Ward, Carson Beck, Jackson Dart and Shadora Sanders. Which quarterback has the most passing yards of those five through the first two college football weeks? If you answer that question right, and whoever is first in answering that question correct, wins a free bottle of a state 98 coffee. Looks like the winner is in. It is D Kit says Dart, Jackson Dart, Danny Dud, you were just behind, just missed it. But D Kit is correct. It is Jackson Dart with 795 passing yards across two weeks. So here's where we stand. To me, the guys who have stood out the most that I want to see more from. I guess in this order I would say, Ewers and Dart right at the top with Carson Beck right there as well. And then Cam Ward and then Shadora Sanders under that. Jackson Dart from Ole Miss, 622, 225, 795 yards, six touchdowns, zero interceptions and an 87% completion percentage, 2 and 0 combined record. They've outscored their opponents 128 to three against Furman and Middle Tennessee State, obviously not the toughest competition right off the bat. But nonetheless, Jackson Dart stats look amazing. Got some size to him at 622, 225. Ole Miss will be at Wake Forest, so the schedule will start to get a little bit more legitimate here as we go. We will see how they hold up once they get into the bulk of their SEC competition. But interesting player to watch if you're the Giants and really regardless of whether it's Joe Shane, Brian Dable, or whoever is making the pick next year for the Giants, I do think that these are names that you should start to familiarize yourself with, that we will do an even a weekly tracker of throughout the season here on Talking Ball Live. Because this is definitely the list of players that the Giants are among the list of players that the Giants are scouting that they are looking out closely. D-Kit, make sure you send me on Instagram, DM me on Instagram, the PL on NFL on Instagram, DM me your address or your PO box, wherever you want me to send it, and we will have a bottle of a state 98 coffee shipped out to you. D-Kit sets a good example, guys. Remember we answer all fan questions here on Talking Ball Live with Pat Leonard. If you purchase a super chat or a super sticker, it will be elevated to the top of the chat, the top of the queue, and we will get right into your question or comment first before then getting back into the queue. So D-Kit purchases a super chat, $5, thank you D-Kit. He says, "I rewatched the game. Daniel Jones can't pull the trigger. He has the yips. It's glaring and can't be fixed, sad but true." I agree that Daniel had, there were several occasions where he either had time to make a throw to a receiver or at the very least, even if under pressure, because he's able to escape and move and keep a play alive, he then had opportunities to, let's say extend a play and throw it away and live to see another play and not take a big hit and then holds the ball because he's trying to make something happen and ends up taking a big hit. Maybe it's an incompletion. Maybe it's a bad decision, whatever the case may be. He did have that one throw to Malik Neighbors in Max Protect where I think it was only like two receivers going out against six coverage guys in the back in the secondary for Brian Flores' defense and ripped it over top of the corner to Neighbors for 20-some yard gain. Think that was that in the third quarter maybe or the second quarter, that was an excellent throw. And that's kind of the stuff too that drives you crazy when you see that kind of those exciting moments and that high level of skill and physical talent pop up for Daniel and then you see the other stuff creep up. You know, D-Kit, you get me into the conversation there about why continue with Daniel Jones as the starter here. And I think what you see is this is an organization that while they spent a lot of the spring looking to replace Daniel Jones and find his successor and Daniel Jones knows that and is under that pressure, ownership now that they're running it back with Daniel wants to give him a fair shake and a fair shot with better weapons, better structure. This actually makes me feel like it's a very interesting dynamic of so coming out of the week one game given how they performed and how they underperformed and how bad it was. I felt like very clearly even listening to the fans, the order of the hot seat that you see for quarterback, GM coach, right, who's on the hottest seat? To me, you come out of that game, it's pretty obvious it's Daniel Jones hottest seat, then Brian Dable and then Joe Shane, even though they're all pretty hot in my opinion, but staying with Daniel Jones as starting quarterback, now first I'll say this, in August I said and we said on this chat that you make a decision about who you're going to start at quarterback and even if it doesn't start the way that you want it to, you don't pull the plug immediately because if you do, it indicates you're essentially saying right away, we just went through a whole summer and we couldn't accurately a judge who our best quarterback was, we apologize, we made a mistake, right? That is what you're doing if you pull the plug after one week. Now, that's what I said in August, that's what I believe. But isn't it difficult sitting there, looking at the product on the field and looking at how Jones was playing, it's hard to watch that and say there isn't a better option here, right? But it wasn't just Daniel Jones and I don't want the conversation to just be about Daniel Jones because to me, this is an organizational failure, this is an organization that essentially is constantly apparently preparing for the future. But at some point, you need to look at the team, look at the makeup and say, okay, yes, we're rebuilding, yes, we inherited a mess. But we need to have a competent product and a competitive product on the field because three years of building a team, even if your quarterback is struggling and holding you back, does not yield the type of result that you saw on Sunday unless all the pieces around that quarterback are also failing. Like you can have a mediocre quarterback or a struggling quarterback and still look like a team. Like think about the Jets last year when Rogers got hurt, right? You could tell, like you could watch those games. That's actually a great example because I have my screen over here. I got the Jets Niners game on Monday night football as we talk. The Jets last year were a team that you and I and everybody could look at and say, this isn't going how anybody wants it to. But I can see watching this team on the field that if Aaron Rodgers was healthy or if they had even competent quarterback play that they would be probably pretty good 'cause their defense was good, they had the infrastructure, they had the talent, right? They had even the talent on the offensive side of the ball at skill positions if they just had a quarterback. So that is what a team looks like when only the quarterback is failing. This is not a situation where it's only the quarterback failing. But not defending Daniel either here, I'm just saying, as we talk around where the pressure exists, I think that it's on Daniel, he didn't play well enough, everybody knows it, I know it, you know it, it has to be better and it does appear like he has the yips, I agree. But the point I was getting at there was when you stick with Daniel Jones, let's say you go into week two, you stick with Daniel Jones, let's say you lose to Washington and you continue to stick with Daniel even though he plays poorly in that game as well. Now I start to think about let me think, right? If Daniel Jones remains in the lineup and ownership doesn't view this as a situation where it's fair or inevitable that Daniel is going to be pulled, then you start to evaluate, okay, how strongly, right away week one, week two, week three, are they evaluating Brian Dable as somebody who's going to even finish this season, right? Because that could vault Brian Dable to the hotter seat over top of Daniel Jones, right? If ownership wants to give Daniel a season here, if ownership wants to ride it out as far as they can with Daniel Jones. This also could be turned on its head, even from the front office from ownership to we paid the quarterback. We might be moving on from him next year. We might be drafting his successor next year. We've been greasing the skids for that. The contract is arranged that way. But are we the New York Giants instead going to say, okay, Brian Dable, you're the play caller. You're the guy who's most of his staff wanted to leave last year because they didn't want to work with you anymore. Show us that you can develop a quarterback. Show us that you are the offensive mind we think you are and that we hired you to be or else it's going to be you first and then Daniel next, right? I think that is a potential kind of swing factor and one element of the dynamic here that I am watching. Thank you for that Super Chat D kit. Allie Cat checks in with $5. Thank you, Allie Cat. Allie Cat says, Pat, you said yesterday Jones is the best quarterback on the team. I want to know where you high. Ray Charles can see Davido plays with more heart and kill. Do you mean skill or like, or he's a killer? I mean, either way, that's a good way to describe how you feel about him. I appreciate that. Yeah, I mean, Allie Cat, you can clearly see the fan base wants to see anybody but Daniel Jones behind center now. I mean, that's obvious. I know Davido is popular, especially locally. He is not as talented as Daniel. He is not as good of a quarterback as Daniel. And listen, they practice every day, okay? Davido did not have a good training camp like this summer. They almost cut him last summer right before the start of the season coming out of training camp. He was not wowing anybody. He just kind of hung around and listen, credit to Tommy. I mean, Tommy is super confident in himself. He stayed ready for when his moment came. He capitalized on it with a lot of help from the Giants defense at that time under Wink, Martin Dale as well. And, you know, I think what gets overlooked, Allie Cat, I'm not saying you're overlooking this, but I do think this is something important to remember. Like Tommy does struggle getting rid of the ball. He's shorter seeing downfield, holding the ball too often, leading to a lot of sacks. That's why the sack numbers were so high when he was in the game last year and why ultimately kind of the bloom was off the rows of. - Even though that was a great story there with Tommy Davido, I still think that Allie Cat Daniel is he's mobile and Tommy can run too, but Daniel's mobile, he has a better arm. He's bigger, he's taller, he's stronger, he's faster. He has more command of the offense as well. There's a lot of reasons why Daniel Jones is a better quarterback than Tommy Davido. Now that said, Allie Cat, you bring up a good point, which is that you and many fans like you, you guys feel like there needs to be a different element of competitiveness from that position on the team. You watch the game on Sunday against the Minnesota Vikings and what you're saying is essentially, for lack of a better term, you're saying the vibes of the offense and of the team are as low as can be, right? You're saying the vibes of the team, the way that they come out of the huddle, your confidence in what they're going to be able to do, is lower with Daniel than Tommy. I understand that element. I think that's a very real thing. I don't think that's anything to sneeze at at all. I think that you're paying Drew Locke some guaranteed money here. You brought him in, he's a real NFL quarterback. He's got to be the next guy you go to if you go to anybody at all here, in my opinion. What I find fascinating everybody is, let's just be honest, they're sticking with Daniel Jones going into this week two game against Washington, right? I think we can all agree that this team needs to turn it around, win two games here against Washington and Cleveland with Dallas on deck and week four. If they don't do that, we're looking at this really going down into the dumpster and going even lower than most people, not me, but most people expected where this was going to go. But the Giants are on the road the next two weeks. So it's easier for the Giants to run Daniel out there than it was on Sunday under an environment like that. I do think that environment was getting to him and getting to the team. And we'll get into that talking about K-Von and the defense later. But I find it so interesting that they kind of have some breathing room here to work with Daniel and with the team. But they come back for a Thursday night football game against the Dallas Cowboys in week four. I believe it is, what is it, September 26th, I think it is. And that to me is the date to circle for a lot of things. That's the date to circle for a lot of things, including for Daniel Jones. All right, gonna get into more of the cue, Ali Cat. Thank you for that super chat and for that point because you do speak for a lot of fans there. In fact, I do know that there were some heavy sections early on, like as early as the second quarter of the game on Sunday against Minnesota Vikings that were chanting Tommy DeVito's name, like really early in that game. So super interesting there. Before I get to the rest of the questions here, please check out, I wrote another call for the New York Daily News. I think you guys will enjoy it. Obviously frustrating points to go over about what's going wrong with the team. But I think the crux of it is that I feel like the fan base really is over this quarterback and this regime and this team for now, unless something dramatic changes and getting into why that is. But some news to clean up coming out of the Giants Monday after the game. Darius Slaton, the team's number two wide receiver on the depth chart is in the concussion protocol according to Brian Dable. So we were not in the building today. We talked to Brian Dable, Jason Pinnock and John Runyon Jr. on Zoom. Slaton did talk to the media after the game, but of course, concussions present differently. Sometimes they're delayed. It's different for everybody and every concussion is different. So unfortunate to see, but Slaton, who was asked to, he was placed at punt returner with the Gunnar Olzewski fiasco and him not getting onto the field. So Slaton ends up as the punt returner now in the concussion protocol. Starting corner Nick McCloud. So Slaton will see, right? He's iffy therefore for Sunday against the Washington commanders. But we'll see when we get on the field Wednesday and Thursday how much he is able to do. Starting corner Nick McCloud has a knee injury. Dable said he's day to day or maybe week to week. He's looking for clarification on that. Gunnar Olzewski, the punt returner, is out for weeks according to Dable with that groin injury he aggravated. And then special teams linebacker Carter Coughlin has a peck injury in his out months. Of course, that means it's a torn peck and he's placed on the practice squad injury list. So a course special teamer now unavailable to the Giants possibly for the season there. The Giants did sign a punt returner after a workout on Monday, a guy named Amir Smith Mar set. He is from Newark, New Jersey originally. A Vikings fifth round pick in 2021. He played for the Panthers last year. He's played 33 games for four teams in his career. Last season for the Panthers, 37 punt returns. 322 yards returning including a 79 yard touchdown against the Bears in week 10. Also had a 20 yard touchdown run on offense for Carolina as well. The team did add linebacker Curtis Bolton back to the practice squad and all of this roster shuffling. I think for financial reasons, I can't figure out another reason why I think it has to do with guarantees on contracts. I mean, I have to get to the bottom of that, but definitely seems like it's kind of pencil pushing on the money side as much as anything. So those are the details that are important to know about the roster that come out of the Giants Monday clean up from their week one, 28 to six loss to the Vikings. Just as a confirmation here, the Jets have seven points and the Niners have 13 as the Niners are driving prior to the end of the first half here looking for more. So it's official now, we are going into week two with the Giants, Brian Dabel as their full-time play caller. The Giants are the lowest scoring team in the NFL entering week two, six points in week one. And the Jets are three points away. If they get three points, the Jets, not only will the Giants be the lowest scoring team in the league, they will also be the only team that did not score in double digit points in week one. But we will see Jets only have seven points as the Niners appear like they're going to keep the ball till the end of the half here, maybe try to get a field goal before the half starts. Let's see, Barbara does not like Jalen Hurts. He did not play his best football in week one, no doubt. Dave Z says, I hope John Marra is also feeling the absolute misery he has bestowed upon the fans of his livelihood. Not even a large Pepsi you can make up for the failures these past 12 years, 2016, 2022 were a fluke. Jacob Petruzi says, smash that like and sub button for Pat on your way in. Thanks for that reminder, Jacob. Please subscribe to the channel if you don't already. And please hit the like button while we are alive. Those likes while we are alive tells all the Giants fans and NFL fans out there what we are doing and brings more people to this community. And right now, it's more important than ever to have a community of people to sit with, to talk to and to bounce ideas off of to figure out where the Giants can go, what they can do both now and in the future, turn this around. That's what we are trying to do here as well as bringing you the most important and relevant and immediate information on your favorite team and league. Jacob says, evening Pat, thank you for all your prayers for my grandmother last week. You got it, Jacob. Few questions to start off. How long until we pull the plug on Jones? Is there a world where Daebo leaves and Shane stays? I think there is a world where Daebo leaves and Shane stays for sure if a lot of the draft picks and the foundation of the team is looking, encouraging, talent wise and starts getting better in that regard, but the coach, the offensive production and the quarterback look like the only issues. That's how that can happen. I mean, I've said this before, but I do, it is true that the Giants organization, the ownership on down, they do not want ideally to overturn things again. That is not what they want to do. They're not looking to do that. They've bristled up the suggestion in recent years when this started to look really bad or much earlier at even the suggestion that they would consider overturning it. That is not in the cards. That is not what they want to do. It's not their preference. But you have to admit there are a lot of worst case scenarios adding up and the worst case scenario is what gets everybody fired, right? So that includes Sequan Barkley going off while the Giants haven't scored a touchdown yet in Sequan S3. That includes Joe Shane getting caught on a hot mic saying that it must be nice to not be looking for a quarterback to the Bears General Manager. It includes the Giants losing to a Vikings team, ready for this, to a quarterback in Sam Darnold who was the backup before JJ McCarthy got hurt. Sam Darnold was the backup to JJ McCarthy, a rookie quarterback who the Giants deemed not worthy of a pick high up in the first round at a position they were scouting heavily looking for the successor to Daniel Jones. So the backup to the player, the Giants wouldn't take, had almost an 80% completion percentage and easily beat Shane Bowen's defense and Brian Davole's team in week one. So those are the different types of contexts that we're looking at here when you evaluate how long until X, how long until Y, Jones, Davole, Shane. Not to mention John Maris-Face being plastered all over social media and essentially the Giants organization being humiliated nationally as Sequan Barkley and the Eagles are running wild in Brazil on the Green Bay Packers. By the way, week two might not be any better for the Giants. The Eagles have the Atlanta Falcons in Philadelphia. That could get really ugly for Joe Shane and the Giants. They might want to close their eyes when that game crosses the television screen. But how long until they pulled a plug on Jones? You know, that's a good question. I mean, if they lose to Washington and they're just as inept in that game as they were in week one, all bets are off on everything. But like I said, is it Daniel Jones hottest seat right now or does it become Brian Davole hottest seat quicker? Because the full team meltdown that we saw in week one last year, that we see week one this year, right? The fact that the quarterback, first of all, quarterback not playing well. Second of all, offense not scoring touchdowns. Third of all, the team amends all around. Five drops, nine penalties, you know, just a ton of mistakes and lack of discipline from the team up and down. And if they lose to Washington and the problems are throughout the team and the operation and not just the quarterback, you know, that's maybe how Davole could end up on a hotter seat earlier than even Daniel Jones does. But this is just my conjecture based on knowing how the organization works and how people in that organization feel about Daniel. So the bottom line I can tell you is heads will roll, regardless if this losing continues and the ineptitude continues. Remember, if the quarterback struggles, Davole's supposed to be the quarterback whisperer, right? So, you know, him, Shay Tierney, the coaches on the offensive staff, they have to get it going. Mike Kafka essentially has been sidelined from the operation. He's not on the sideline. He's not calling plays. So he's involved in conversations, but he's not involved in calling the offense. And, you know, from what I see often, Tierney working more closely with the quarterbacks, although Kafka a part of that. Jacob says drafting neighbors seems like 2018 all over again, drafting win now player for a team that isn't winning now. Am I wrong? Jacob, I do think neighbors could end up being a building block piece for this team and organization and franchise, regardless of who the quarterback is next year and who the general manager and head coach is. I do think he's that talented. He's very young. He's going to have to live through some growing pains here, even if he's playing well and it's just about, you know, the rest of the team not supporting him or not having good enough quarterback play. I do think that he could be a building block, but, you know, maturity wise, he'll have to kind of handle the ups and downs of this early going the right way. Like, you know, I liked hearing him say that he had a drop and it wasn't acceptable and that they dropped too many passes in the middle of a lot of his answers in the locker room after the game against the Vikings because you want to see accountability and you want to see poise and frankly, it's hard to expect that from a 21 year old sixth overall pick wide receiver with the expectations of New York City on his shoulders. So, you know, I do think that's impressive. Dave Z says from 1964 to 80, the Giants record was 84, 156 and four. Since 2020, since 2012, the Giants are 67, 112 and one. The worst stretches in franchise history. Now, that's how you celebrate 100 years. You said it, Dave, I don't have much to add to that. You make a good point. Dave says, thank you, Pat, for letting us bet our continued frustrations here. You got it, Dave. Thanks for always being here. Danny Dodd says, do you think John Maris finally going to now admit Daniel Jones was never the answer the day he does will be gratifying? You know, Danny, I think that, I think that John Maris believes Daniel Jones has talent and has ability and has also the demeanor to handle New York. I do think that deep down, the fact that they saw Eli Manning live through a ton of rocky seasons and games and turnovers early on and come out of it the way he did on top and become such a legend for their franchise. And now he's standing there on the field at the 100th anniversary and getting the biggest ovation of any player, right? I think that is something also that's always in the back of the Giants' minds and in the back of ownership's minds. But that can't govern the way that you handle things, just like you can't govern the way you draft quarterbacks. You can't govern the way that you stick with a quarterback. You can't just count on things to change. And let's be clear here, you know, although I am talking about the overreaching context of the organization not being good enough, Daniel Jones's play in Week One was completely unacceptable. And there's no defending it even from an organizational like ownership standpoint, even if you like the guy. Daniel said it himself too, I have to play better. I'm not playing well enough. Like the pick six that he threw, you know, talking to people today around the league about it. You know, there's a part of me that felt like Van Ginkle looks like he anticipated that throw and was able to kind of see it coming because of like the play call and the alignment. But even if that's the case, you know, you have to do something on that play as the quarterback. You see a defender entering your line of sight and trying to blow up the play. Do you pump fake? Do you throw it sidearm underneath them? You know, how do you move to change the angle? Do you abandon that throw and then try to look for something else and throw it away, right? So those are all, you know, something that you would expect a franchise quarterback to do. You know, Kansas City Chiefs and Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen and the Buffalo Bills, whoever the case may be, those guys would make an adjustment on the fly. And that's what you need for quarterbacks, right? And that pick six, I mean, I have to be honest, as somebody who has had low expectations for the season, it felt like it was gonna be bad. When he made that throw that for the pick six, I like, I literally bumped the person next to me with my elbow because in the moment, it was almost like as much as you've seen it happen and as much as we just saw it in Houston in the preseason, watching that throw, it happened right in front of me. Watching him make that throw, it was almost like in slow motion. You're thinking, this cannot be. I mean, it was really that bad. Tutto, Tutto, big time loyal Giants fan and NFL fan and follower, Tutto, thanks so much for being here. Tutto, have you seen that our talking ball post game live on Sunday after the Giants lost to the Vikings? It now has, I wanna say five and a half thousand views on the talking ball with Pat Leonard YouTube page at PL on NFL, also on the Believe Network audio, whether you listen on Spotify, Apple podcast, whatever, that's where you can listen to the audio version of these podcasts and all of our guest podcasts, including first down with Benny Fowler that just went up today with our breakdown of action around the league in week one. But Tutto, man, you've helped us build this community. You've been one of our strongest supporters throughout and I knew you'd appreciate that because we've been talking about year two of the talking ball post game lives, really kind of taking off and as this channel continues to grow and you could see that we have become one of the go to places for Giants fans to vent, discuss, find, go to immediate information and analysis and breaking news about what's coming out of the locker room, about how the players and the team are reacting, about what the team is planning, about why they're doing things that they're doing, even though it might not be as obvious as you're watching on the field. Like I see questions about jail and hide and others in the queue that we're going to get to, that I have good insight on for you all. So, you know, that's where we're at, Tutto, and I know you'd be happy to hear that. Tutto says massive salutes and respects to Big Boss Pat King of New York Giants podcasts and all die hard Giants fans across the pond, greetings from our entire rugby team in North London. Tutto, thank you so much for being here. You're the man, you know it, everybody here knows it. One of the die hards, everybody here though, listen, we all love football, we all probably have Monday Night Football on somewhere, but you're here with me. New York Daily News columnist, NFL columnist and Giants beat writer for the Daily News, now in my ninth season covering the team, I couldn't be happier to do it and couldn't be happier to sit here with you guys and talk ball. All right, let's get down into the queue, let's keep getting through these. Dave D says, what do you think? Yours Beck or a stopgap till they get arch-manning? Well, if this season continues on this track and they have a top five, top six pick, you have to take a quarterback there, Dave. I mean, you know, I don't see how, you know, you would, what would you do then? Like let's say even if it's a new regime, you have a high pick, a top five pick and a good quarterback draft, what you don't draft a QB, you draft another piece, you sign a stopgap veteran and then what you hope that you still have a high enough pick when arch comes around down the road to get them. That's pretty dangerous territory. That's kind of flirting with disaster. But I'm glad you brought back up the quarterbacks in college because I wanted to share with you guys one thing that sticks out to me when I look at these top five names I pulled today for the 2025 NFL draft. And by the way, part of the reason I'm bringing this up is 'cause I know this is exactly what people want to hear. Google trends on Sunday at 3 p.m. Guess what spiked, the search term 2025 NFL draft at 3 p.m. on Sunday in the New York metropolitan area. So in the New York metro area at 3 p.m. Sunday, when the Giants were still playing in Daniel Jones and the Giants offense were falling on their faces, 2025 NFL draft starts trending on Google. Why? 'Cause you guys know, if it's not about today, it's about tomorrow. So Quinn Ewers from Texas, he's 6.2 to 10, 560 yards passing, six touchdowns, one interception and a 69.8 completion percentage so far. The team is 2 and 0, has outscored Colorado State in Michigan combined 83 to 12 and they face Texas San Antonio this week. Cam Ward from Miami 62 to 23, 689 yards passing, six touchdowns, one interception, 75.4% completion. Also, 2 and 0, 97, 26 combined outscored their opponents against Florida and Florida A&M, face ball state this week. Told you about Jackson Dart, Shadora Sanders, 689, five touchdowns, two interceptions, one in one outscored 54 to 41 total, including a 2810 lost in Nebraska at Colorado State and frankly, you know, without digging too deep into it, but just knowing the personalities, I really find it hard to believe that Giants ownership would want Deon Sanders on ESPN talking about their starting quarterback all the time. So that's, you know, that's my opinion. But here's what sticks out to me. The Giants love size, especially at the quarterback position, Carson Beck, the only one on this, on this list that's taller than 6.2, he has listed at six foot four, 220 pounds. We also know Joe Shane was at that Georgia Clemson game. Of course, he's gonna scout all these guys, but he was at the Georgia Clemson game, right? To start out the season. And he's the only one who profiles with the kind of size that Giants are usually looking at. 520 passing yards so far, seven touchdowns, zero interceptions, 70.7 completion percentage. Georgia is two and oh, combined score, 82 to six in wins over Clemson, which was 34 to three and Tennessee Tech. And they are at Kentucky this week. We talked about Jackson Dart as well earlier. They play at Wake Forest Ole Miss. He is six to 225. So those are names that I think are interesting for us to continue to watch, continue to follow and continue to talk about here. Tuto checks in with another super chat. Thank you so much for that, Tuto. Tuto says, "Pat, Pat, last Saturday was my birthday and also my fourth son was born the same day." Wow. And we had a massive last minute away test win. Can't thank enough for God's blessings made. Man, Tuto, way to go. Congratulations, everybody. Please congratulate Tuto on his fourth son. That is amazing, Tuto, a W, a victory. That's amazing. Congratulations, Tuto, to you and your family. All the best, happy and healthy as Tommy always says in our chat, health and wealth to all. So that's, I'm gonna steal that line. All right, Tuto, awesome, man. I'm pumped. Vodger, Vodger high. All right, let's see. So Danny says he was referring to John Mayer's comment when asked about Daniel Jones' performance against Vikings. He said, "Gradifying, I always thought it was a tell that he was to blame for drafting Jones." So you're talking about the Vikings playoff game and him saying, "Gradifying." Yeah, but listen, Dave Gedelman, when he was here, Dave Gedelman was a giants lifer for the most part who then went to Carolina and was kind of waiting his turn to be the general manager here. It was somebody who was friends with and learned from Ernie Acorzi and Ernie Acorzi, one of John Mayer's most trusted advisors and former general managers. And so that was, Dave Gedelman taking Daniel Jones is John Mayer and the Giants and Dave Gedelman, right? That's them believing as an organization in Daniel Jones, right? It's all tied up in one. So if Dave Gedelman was making a pick, yes, John Mayer was on board with it, if not behind it. But that was Dave's pick. But I'm just saying he's an extension of, he's an extension of the old Giants guard, if you will. Dave says, gonna go make an ice to state 98 to perk up for the live stream. Well done. Dave G says, get those likes up. Thank you for saying that, Dave. Really appreciate that. Please hit the like button while we are live. Dave says, Gedelman was so hot for Jones because of the David Cutcliffe connection. He had the Manning brothers, but look at the rest of his quarterbacks, he put in the NFL, huge shoulder, Eric Ainge, T. Martin. Stephen says, Pat, off topic, but can you remember what you thought the Giants should do when they had the second pick, Barkley either before the draft or right after curious because we'll probably never see a running back picked number two again. Yes, Stephen, I do remember in that 2018 NFL draft, the Giants were the one thing that stood out the most in that draft was that Dave Gedelman admitted said out loud to us in a press conference that he told, even though other teams were calling him, he told his people, his scouts, his team, to not answer the phone and not take those calls when they were on the clock at number two because he already knew they were turning the card in for Zekwam Barkley. And I remember going into that draft and at that time, feeling like what the Giants should do was pick up the phone from the Denver Broncos at number five, for example, that was a team that was calling. And you remember, of course, earlier on before the draft, there was the Jets trade up to three with the Indianapolis Colts to move up there and take Sam Darnold. But I thought what the Giants were poised to do and should have done was try to acquire more assets for their rebuild, move back a few slots and take a Quentin Nelson at guard. I know Bradley Chubb was a player they also liked in that draft. What I wanted them to do was move back and take Nelson. At the time, I had no concept of knowing how good Josh Allen was going to be. Most people didn't, some people did. Some people were high on them. I remember Phil Sims saying, you know, Phil Sims was calling it from day one. Like, this guy's gonna be the guy, this guy's gonna be the dude. But, you know, a lot of people were unsure about a prospect like that. So, you know, I'm always of the opinion, if there's a quarterback that you like, take 'em. And I do remember during that process meeting Josh Allen and feeling like not only did I like 'em as just a guy and as somebody who felt like was relatable and could, you know, but would take coaching well. But also he and Pat Schurmer seemed to really hit it off and talking to them about their meeting and what they were doing, the work they were doing on the board in Indianapolis at the Combine, things like that. So, I also remember Josh Rosen being a big sell during that process. I even wrote a story on 'em. And there was a lot of hype about him, but there were a lot of flags about, you know, be careful here, you know, might not be all in, might not be the right investment. Of course, Arizona found that out the hard way. But my preference for that draft for the Giants was move back and take Quentin Nelson knowing, knowing how they felt about their team and knowing that they were, you have to remember too, I didn't at that time agree with Eli Manning continuing to run it back. I felt like he had lost a step and obviously Eli admitted at the end after he retired that he had down the stretch of his career. But knowing that the Giants were not going to move on from Eli as well was connected to what they should do in the draft. You know, you could see what they, that they were looking at a position player and not at a quarterback. So that narrowed it down to, okay, are they going to take a sequin Barkley or are they going to take a Bradley Chubb to help their defense? Are they going to take a Quentin Nelson on offense? What I thought they should have done was taking those calls. I mean, I think it's just malpractice to this day for Dave Gettleman not to take those calls. They should have taken the calls, moved back and taken Quentin Nelson. That was what I had them doing, wanted them to do. Of course, they tried to hit the home run with Saquon Barkley there. They overestimated what Eli could be, what the team could be. They thought they were ready for that finishing piece. They were not. OG says, what's good Pat? Sick of hearing Daniel Jones's name hasn't played well enough since his rookie year. Only reason they made the playoffs in 2022 was because of Barkley. Dave says, no excuses for anyone in this regime. You nailed it. Last night, Pat, they have no organizational identity. Dave G, good to see you. What's going on? What's going on? Let's see. Jim Osborne says, as perhaps the longest tenured fan here, 1963 YA Tittle, you are absolutely correct. Rotten ownership and management. Total team failure says, as Thompson. No line, defensive interior, running back and the quarterback, what a bad game was really tough to watch, no doubt about it. D-Kid, don't forget to DM me on Instagram with your address for me to send that estate 98 getting that trivia question right. Well done. Shea says, how do we know he wasn't Jones, wasn't paid 40 million a year to be this bad all this time? I mean, no one can look as horrible as he looked. Shea, that would be quite the twist. I think that it's hard to separate as well when we talk about Jones and his ability and how rough it's been. You know, as much as Joe Sheen clearly has been aiming to replace him, and I told you guys, and this is true, like when Shane and Dabel came in here, you know, the plan was ride it out a little bit with Daniel and then move on. And then this, resigning him to that contract was the unexpected part of it, the unexpected development, the thing that kind of changed the course of where everything was going. And because of they signed him to that, yes, did Joe Shane give himself out after two years? He did, right? And that was by design, clearly. And listen, if you build the team the right way, that can end up being good work if you actually have a solid foundation to move into the future with. But you also tie yourself to the quarterback, Daniel Jones, that way, by doing that. You are paying him $40 million a year. So you're not just paying him $40 million to make your owner happy. You're a judging that you did work enough with that quarterback to get a team to the playoffs. Here we go, right? Jayne Law says, what's the feeling around the Giants front office after yesterday's embarrassment? Well, they obviously had to scramble for a punt returner. And this is something I told you guys, coming out of training camp that they were looking for, they were kind of scouring the NFL world for punt return help. Of course, that is an issue right away in week one because they don't have it resolved with injuries and personnel issues there. The feeling though, it's one of, listen, there's confidence in there that they're doing the right thing for the long term of their organization. But I think there's definitely nervousness right now and tightness going on there about, well, how do we get there? Because this is a bad product on the field and it's less than ideal, but it's worse than that, right? Like this is not a, hey, let's get us to the end of the tunnel. I can see the light even though we're still in the darkness, right? It's hard to see through the tunnel to the end to where it opens up and where this full picture comes into view, you know? It's hard to see because when you walk into the locker room after the game and you see how, you know, you see K Montebito bristling at questions just about, isn't the pass rush supposed to carry this team and our expectations high for you guys and not performing in week one? You see Brian Burns looked to me like a little chippy there, you know, in the locker room and he was accountable to everything, but, you know, he was asked about the booze and he said, I didn't hear that. And that was, I thought that was strange. Dexter Lawrence bristling and asked about did he hear the booze? You know, and listen, defensively, of course, it's very frustrating that, listen, they didn't play great either, even though they first forced two turnovers, but it is frustrating being on a team in an organization where every year you wake up and it's the same old thing where you can't score any points, you know? All right, let's see. Stephen says, I say play Daniel Jones, see if you can get any type of footing post injury. He's part of it, the whole team has blamed. If he still stinks, then we'd be in a position for a quarterback. Mike says that, can the Giants fire Shane to hire a new GM now or after they lose to Washington? It might be a good move to placate fans. He's incapable of evaluating O-line or D-line talent. Mike, that is not the Giants style. They prefer not to make in-season changes to anything. You know, the last time, of course, that they fired somebody in season was Jerry Reese and that happened the day after they benched the organization with John Mara signing off, benched Eli Manning for that game against the Raiders with Geno Smith starting out in Oakland. They typically prefer to ride it out and then turn everything over once the season is over. I do think this year, if it continues on this track, though, I don't think Brian Dable would finish the season as the head coach, it has to get dramatically better here for him to finish the season as the head coach. Like if you lose to Washington this week, you know, then if they lose to Washington this week, I don't even know if Brian Dable makes it to the bye week, you know, that would be something to be seen. As far as Joe Shane, that's a good question. I mean, you don't want to rip up your whole scouting operation, especially when you've turned it over, the infrastructure is now what Joe Shane is running, what his operation is running, what everybody there is, you know, working together as a unit out on the road, road trips planned, scouting trips, conversations, and the board being built, right, all that. I think that you do though, from my perspective and my experience now, 'cause I've been through too many of these types of searches and conversations with the Giants. As the 49ers just appear to continue to roll against the Jets here, man, they're tough. So what happens in the NFL is feelers start getting put out by organizations earlier than you would imagine about what candidates are out there, who might come available, who, you know, might be a surprise availability on the executive or the coaching market, and also kind of laying groundwork for what those matches might end up being. So that does happen in the NFL. That it would be more like that kind of laying groundwork for what it would look like down the road. And I know a lot of people were asking me yesterday about who would our new GM and head coach be. We batted around a bunch of ideas about head coaches and also about, you know, the teams that you would look at for GM candidates, right, not the GMs themselves, but the lieutenants of top teams in the NFL. A general manager candidate though, that I would take a run at, and I don't know if you'd be able to get them out of there, of course, but I would take a run at Will McClay from Dallas. I think I think Will McClay's work in Dallas is not discussed enough because the Jones, Jerry Jones, Stephen Jones, the Jones family. Of course, Jerry's talking to the media all the time. He's the face of the franchise. Even if Will McClay is running the draft, it always looks to everybody like the Joneses are running absolutely everything. And they are involved, of course, but I think Will McClay is smart, is savvy. I think the Cowboys are one of the most talented teams in the league because of Will McClay. And I would take a run at him. That's one name on the GM circuit that jumps out to me. I mean, he's essentially the de facto GM in Dallas. So if Dallas continues to succeed, there's obviously not necessarily any reason for him to leave being paid well, being compensated well and working for quote unquote America's team. But I would still at least investigate because I have a high opinion of the work he does. Richard Ryan says Kyle McCord from Syracuse is looking pretty good, interesting. Yeah, I haven't watched much of him, Richard, but I'll get him on my radar too. Let's see, Mo says Pat, long time, first time. All right, Mo, great to hear. If you know Giants like I do from 86, Daniel Jones reminds me of a quarterback we had in the 90s called Dave Brown. Yes, he does. And another fan brought that up last night during our talking ball post game live, which is actually something, Mo, I'm sure you know as a long time, first time, but for those who don't know, we do post game lives after every Giants home and road game from the press box at the stadium. So I'll be at every Giants game and we do a post game live from the stadium press box where I come right out of the locker room, I finish my work for the Daily News and then I go live with you all on YouTube, PL and NFL on the Believe Network to discuss the Giants and bring all the information right to you after the game. Really unique stuff that we're doing here, no one really doing anything like it. But Mo, back to your point, I think you're absolutely right. And I think what you're pointing to too is just an element of selecting a QB who the organization feels has the traits and the ability to handle the market and the spotlight and the team. And it's a case where the Giants are a judging one thing, but your eyes are telling you another about what the talent is going to do for your organization and whether you need to move on or not, right? So I do think that's a good analogy. Two K says, did we find out why there were 51 on the roster, what's going on with part returner? Yeah, so like we said, they signed one. Why there are 51? Don't know exactly yet. I think it had to do with financials. I think, you know, when you get players on the team and this, I don't love this stuff. So that's why I wanna confirm it before I say anything really, but you can end up as a team being in a position where you move guys off an active roster early and then add them to the practice squad and bring them back so that they're not on the roster for let's say the first three weeks of a year to lock in a certain part of their contract or their accrued seasons, things like that to go on your salary cap. There are mechanisms where player contracts vest or don't vest depending on how often or how frequently or how much they're on your active roster. So I think it has to do with some kind of juggling like that, but I need to get to the bottom of that because I don't quite understand it. I also think you gotta be careful with that stuff. You don't wanna flirt with it so much that agents and players are looking at you like what's going on here, right? OG says Daniel holds the ball because he can't see what's happening. Dave Z says he sees it, but he can't process it. Jim says, Pat, as Bernie said this morning on your show, or as Benny, right, as Benny Fowler said this morning on your show, and thanks for watching that, Jim, at the first down with Benny Fowler. I thought that was, I was a really fun show. The key to the quarterback is accuracy and ability to lead the receiver for yards after the catch. Who fits the bill in 2025? You know, Jim, Quinn, you were stood out to me in that Michigan game big time in the way that you just described. This is a guy who was playing confidently. I felt like he was making the right reads, the right throws, looked accurate. They dart and Beck, both guys who show the ability to lead their receivers and be accurate with the football as well. So those are three that stand out to me. They're yours, Beck and Dart. The, oh boy, looks like the San Francisco 49ers up 23 to seven just picked off Aaron Rodgers in the middle of the third quarter. So looking like a rough visit to Northern California for the Jets here, but Jim, that's a really good point. And yeah, Benny was actually speaking about CJ Stroud specifically in terms of what was impressing him around the league in week one, saying that he was leading his receivers, giving them a chance to make the play after the catch. And Benny, somebody who won a Super Bowl with the Denver Broncos and Peyton Manning played on several NFL teams, including the Giants with Eli Manning and also Daniel Jones. Benny Fowler, somebody who was able to say from his own personal experience as a receiver, what you like and don't like about quarterbacks and how they throw you the football. D-Kit checks in with the $10 Super Chat. Thank you so much, D-Kit. He says, "It's time for all the Marra player personnel guys to go, all of them. There is something seriously wrong there. They are definitely part of the problem. FYI, McCord is not good." Oh, interesting, okay. So you have a different opinion on McCord. That's fair. I have to watch that player myself. Let's see. Thank you, D-Kit. Thank you so much for that Super Chat there. Really appreciate it. And actually to your point, D-Kit on the drafts and on the personnel, like I think one thing that sticks out to me when I watch the Giants on Sunday and I watch the Giants as a foundational building block organization, right? Like if you're the Giants right now and you're saying we want to be good now, but our main priority is being good down the road. Now let's evaluate that, right? Let's evaluate are the Giants setting themselves up well to be good down the road? And I think when you look at their drafts under Joe Shane, right? Darian Beavers gone, Marcus McKeath and gone. Late round picks in that draft, McFadden, Davidson. At the top of that draft, K-Vontibido disappointing. Really some worrisome concerns right now. Sometimes scouting reports are right. Right now, K-Vontibido I think needs to put his head down and play, prioritize team first and production there. Of course he wants to produce, but you can't have the, and I know, listen, that investment in Brian Burns was not just about getting another pass rusher. It was about, you drafted a pass rusher number five overall and K-Vontibido in New York has not turned out to be Aiden Hutchinson in Detroit who was the number two overall pick in that same draft, right? They don't even belong in the same conversation right now despite the sacks that he racked up last year. So that's a players underperforming number five overall pick. Evan Neal, not even playing for them right now, even though he's standing there on the sideline. Wandel Robinson, more of a gadget player on offense. Josh Azuto, an offensive lineman who hasn't been able to contribute at any kind of significant level. Cordale Flott, a corner, you're still waiting to be the guy. Daniel Bellinger, fourth round pick in that first draft, now reduced to the third most snaps at tight end in this game, only below 30% of the snaps in the Giants first game. Theo Johnson, the rookie, getting the bulk with Chris Manhertz coming in between them. And Dane Belton, no longer as the starting safety, Adriath Tyler Nubin over him, and by no longer the starting safety, I mean that he was playing that early in camp, but not able to protect that job. And then last year, Deontay Banks, John Michael Schmitz, Jalen Hyatt, Eric Gray, Trey Hawkins, Jordan Riley, Givarius Owens, Owens and Hawkins inactive, Riley barely played. Gray got a little bit of run, not much. Jalen Hyatt, only 16 snaps had a drop, a guy who has been marginalized, remains marginalized, even though they were trying to see if he could grab a spot there in the lineup during camp, wasn't going to happen. He was not going to outplay Darius Slaton. And John Michael Schmitz, the center, want to see continued improvement from him. Deontay Banks at corner, of course, somebody that needs to continue to grow as a lot on his plate. Justin Jefferson, a tough assignment, beats him one-on-one on fourth down in the red zone for a big touchdown, also gets over top of him for a big play on Sunday. And not really a player suited to zone defenses, but that's a lot of what Shane Bowen was throwing on the field, so not sure if that's a good fit or a foundational piece for what they are running now on defense, necessarily. And then, of course, you have the rookies. So you have Malik Neighbors, looks like a good building block, but you need to see him to get in the end zone. Tyler Neuben, I like Tyler Neuben a lot. I do think he has a good chance to be a good foundational piece. Drew Phillips, so Neuben being the safety. Drew Phillips in the third round, slot corner, we'll see, did force a fumble. I think he's still nursing an ankle back to full strength. Neuben, of course, in the second round, they wanted a corner above him there, but they traded that high second round pick for Brian Burns, so it would have been nice to get a corner and a safety there, but they weren't able to do that. Drew Phillips also really largely a slot, and that's what he is. Theo Johnson, not a great debut, though he did play a lot of snaps. And then Tyrone Tracy, I like Tyrone Tracy. I think he's a good player. I think he looks like he could be something, but, of course, still limited in the game plan, possible building block there, and then Darius Muasal, sixth round pick out of UCLA, held his own as far as being in the lineup and making some contributions, even though it was unexpected that he was, let's say, as of two weeks ago, it was unexpected that he was gonna play as much as he did in this game, but so that's encouraging, but you wanna see more, right? Encouraging, you wanna see more with Muasal, that's what I would say, but obviously, kind of beat expectations in his first game, for sure. Lou Mateo, what's up? With the Chad Powers icon, nice. Lou Mateo says, "As a reporter, what's the point of asking Dable questions when he gives the same answer?" Well, Lou, when there are questions that need to be asked, especially pressing questions about major issues going on with a team or a player or a coach or whatever, you need to ask the questions because you never know when the person's going to actually answer it. Like, it's their prerogative as the person you're talking to and interviewing to give you whatever answer they want, including a no comment, but it's my job as a reporter to ask the questions that I feel are going to provide the clarity necessary to tell the story most accurately, right? So, in a game like that, asking Brian Dable how he was thinking about his quarterback, how he was handling his quarterback, asking Dable about, you know, what are the fans supposed to think, right? Like, those are all questions that, even if the coach is going to give kind of bland non-answers to, that they do deserve to be asked because you're putting your, you're trying to help get the coach's help, put your finger on the pulse of what exactly is going wrong, including, for example, Lou, to your point. If a fan says to me on here, why did the Giants run so much heavy personnel at the start of that game offensively against the Vikings? If I ask Dable that question myself, and he says, we thought it was best, and that was it, and he gives a non-answer, gives the same answer, that doesn't make my question a bad question. That means that he doesn't want to answer it. You know what I mean? Sometimes they don't want to answer it 'cause they feel like it's a competitive disadvantage if they're showing their opponent something, sometimes they're not in the mood, right? Like, whatever, but that doesn't make that a bad question. And actually somebody did ask that question today, and he essentially said that he was anticipating a lot of pressure from Brian Flores' defense. So really, again, confirmation out-smarted and out-coached by Ryan Flores there. D-Kids says, Pat, it's not only Shane, I get it, he's terrible, but the Mariguys have been picking guys with Get them in for over a decade, they need to get out. Yeah, well, he owns the team though, so barring selling the team, that's not gonna happen. But I hear what you're saying, it goes above them. And that was something, to be honest with you, that over the last several years, we've hit on a lot, is the fabric of the organization is part of the problem. It's not just the people they keep hiring, right? I will say they seem to not hire the right people as well. That seems to be a part of the problem in a lot of the scenarios for the Giants and for their leadership and ownership. So I do think that's part of it, maybe not just them and their town evaluations, but then they're just their evaluations of who they're hiring. Like, I have to be honest with you. Some of the things and the ways that Joe Shane was talking and operating in hard knocks, it made me stunned that he did a four-hour interview with them and they hired him. Like, I'm listening to that and I was thinking, this guy sounds like he knows a lot about scouting players and about talent and about, he does have an idea of the way he sees the game, but what is his governing philosophy? How does he make decisions? How does he, let's say, not necessarily just delegate, but how does he gather everybody's opinion and take it all in to make a decision? Is he somebody who's inclusive in that respect, who takes the advice even when it's not what he necessarily wanted to hear? Like, I think there were just a lot of elements of that where I said, you know, listen, Joe Shane's a climber who's trying to become a general manager in a cut-through of business and it's the Giants ownership's job to sit there in an interview and say, okay, like this and that, but I'm not quite sure this guy's ready, right? So that's their job as well. All right, let's get back into the queue here. All right, let's see. Thanks for the Super Chat there, D-Kit. All right, Kyler with the Super Chat. Thank you, Kyler. Kyler says, "Davele and Joe have done several questionable things." What's the most questionable thing each has done in your eyes and each of their biggest questions still? Good question, Kyler. So to me, are you talking about this season, or are you talking about in general? I think you mean in general. I would say the most questionable thing Davele has done is his mismanagement of the staff and of game days and including the lack of composure on the sidelines that resulted in pushing the defensive coordinator, Wink Martindale out the door. Martindale not wanting to work here anymore and resigning from the Giants organization. I think that is going to continue to rear its head as the season goes. Like the issues that you saw from the defense against Sam Darnold and in the running game against Minnesota in that first game there against the Vikings in MetLife Stadium. I think those things are going to continue. I think those are inherent problems that we saw during training camp and with the scheme and the lack of answers that they have in this new defense. I know Shane Bowen's going to be working to address it and fix it. I know the Giants are going to be trying to stop the bleeding as they go into Washington to face Jaden Daniels and the Cliff Kingsbury offense and the Washington commanders with Dan Quinn running the defense there. But I think the most questionable thing from Davele's and has been just the mismanagement of the staff that essentially it resulted in his best assistant coach and his best coordinator and really the best coach on the staff leaving. Like Wink Martindale gave them an advantage on game days and now they do not have that X's and O's advantage at least based on week one, they didn't have it on either side of the ball. As far as Joe Shane, most questionable, I think most questionable would be you know, resigning Daniel to that contract is one and how he handled the cyclumbark we situation and also drafting K-Vontibido Evan Neal five and seven there. You know, you could have made a trade up maybe to go get sauce gardener. You know, there were other tackles that you could have taken there. You know, Charles Cross, for example, you know, I think that that draft right there at the top, that first draft. Not just letting Saquan Barkley walk, it was also just the way it was handled, the way that it got contentious and nasty the previous year before this year when Saquan walked to Philadelphia. I think that's the most questionable is kind of like the bad first draft or what looks like a bad first draft. And, you know, in addition to resigning Daniel and then also the mismanagement of the Saquan situation. The other thing on a big picture level for both of them, but, you know, I guess this is more of a shame thing. But the other thing for both of them is they seem to understand coming in. I've said this before. I think I said it earlier. They knew what the Giants were and weren't. At least it seemed like they knew. And they understood the lay of the land. They knew what the, you know, what the ownership dynamic was. They also knew the franchise's history of kind of getting in its own way. They knew where the roster stood. They knew that they were limited as a team. And they knew there was going to be kind of a long road ahead of them. When they, when they won that first year when they didn't expect to win. I think another most questionable thing you can put pretty high on the list is they went into the next season in 2023, making decisions and acquisitions and additions and decisions based on thinking, okay, we just accelerated this a little bit. We can do this. Let's go do this. We can win. And, you know, as Sterling Shepard revealed that one press conference like Brian Dable was talking about the Super Bowl behind the scenes. Dexter Lawrence was saying, I'm done building. It's time to win. You know, things like that. Misunderstanding and misevaluating where they were. That is something that organizationally the Giants do consistently is they don't accurately address and understand who they are and who they are not. And as I discussed this about Shane and Dable, Aaron Rodgers, just hit, looked like what Alan, was that Alan Lazard for a touchdown? Nice throw to Alan Lazard. They went for two, did not get it. They come up short on a Breeze Hall run. It looks like so. Looks like 27 to 13 San Francisco. And the 49ers still in control, but the Jets go into double digits 2613, sorry, 2613 Niners late in the third quarter. And so the Jets now officially in double digits, which means the Giants now are the only NFL team officially that only scored a single digit points in week one. All right, let me try to get through this queue here. You guys have been great, though, supplying these questions and these super chats. Thank you so much. And Kyle are actually to answer the final part of your question. You said what are each of their biggest questions still? Joe Shane and Brian Dable. I think Shane's biggest question right now is, are his draft picks going to pan out, like what we just went over? I think the biggest question is, you know, he came in and said, let's build through the draft and supplement through free agency. I actually think it's been the other way around how he's going about it. He tried to acquire and has acquired some higher end talent and some key positions, but he's waiting for his draft picks to kind of fill in the gaps and they're not. He's even had to sign veterans like Greg Van Rotten at the start of training camp, like bringing back a Dory Jackson when it wasn't in the cards to have a Dory here at all, right? You know, so those are at positions where he's drafted a corner where he's drafted offensive lineman and where those players haven't worked out. So he's have to sign free agents over them. So I think the biggest question with Joe Shane is just that town evaluation and team building aspect. Like, I talked to, when I talked to Benny Fowler in that interview today, one of the points he made about the Giants, and he said, you know, everybody's, everybody's job is on the line. Everybody's got to be on job watch right now. One of the things he said, though, is he said, the Giants roster construction is just horrible and it's been horrible since even when I was there in terms of the way the rosters set up. Offensive line, D line and skill players, none of the pieces fit. None of them are complimentary and it's tough, and it's tough to watch. It's just not good football. So that was a guy who's on the team saying that, and this is something that you hear, Michael Embardi, the former GM says it, and I've heard several other people say it around the NFL, is that the Giants and like some of the other teams that struggle, sometimes they have some talent on their team, but they're more of a team that acquires talent than that builds a team with a philosophy and an identity. So that's kind of what we were talking about a little bit. Last night at the post game live as well. 2K Quest says, does Daniel Jones have any freedom to audible out of a bed, look, the telegraph screen pass for pick six, should have been killed before the snap? I know Dave will typically gives, I mean, Daniel Jones has the ability to, yes, read the field and change the play. Yes, he does. He also, like Dave will give him two plays in the headset and, you know, there could be an automatic kill on the first one based on a look to go to the second one, right? So Daniel does have the ability, yes, and he's been in the league long enough where it would be ridiculous if he didn't, right? So good point there, 2K. Mark Sullivan with a $10 super chat. Thank you, Mark. Mark says, the Giants should have tanked last year, like I recommended. Hopefully we learned with what we gave up for Burns and his salary, we could have resigned McKinney, Saquon drafted McKinsey and signed Huff. Mark, really good point there, really good point. Additionally, why it's so concerning to see those edge rushers not performing there, right? Cave on Tibido, one quarterback hit, no tackles, no sacks. Brian Burns, four tackles, no sacks and no quarterback hits. You make a good point there, Mark. Well, that's, you bring up an interesting conversation piece there, which is like right now, the Giants, the only silver lining right now to what we're watching on the field, if it doesn't turn around is, hey, maybe the Giants have a high pick next year again, right? And maybe they can get their quarterback there, but can you live through that? Like that's the question is, can this regime survive that? How does the organization get there? Can ownership, can ownership get to a point where they have a top five pick next year and they're picking at the top of the draft next year, but they still have faith in the people building and running their team it's a really tricky dynamic. You know, I wonder what you guys think. Dan Mazina, the great man, Dean, he says, you know, I'm all about strength and conditioning, but what about the mental preparation after that being do the Giants have a sports psychologist on staff to get their heads right? That's a good question, Dan. Yes, they do. They do have somebody on staff to help players with their mental approach to the ups and downs. It could be to their performance successes or failures. It could also be to facing criticism. And they do have people on staff and somebody on staff that that players see that it's like open door type stuff. And they do work with players in that in that area. Now, you know, specific to Daniel Jones and the conversation about him having the yips or looking like he has the yips and looking like he was just indecisive, not seeing things clearly. And even though, even though we know necessarily there are times where maybe he's not seeing the field as well and a lot of quarterbacks aren't, that it was, it was, it was almost worse as that game went on. I think personally, Dan, there's something about, I disagree with people who say, oh, can a guy handle the New York market and the New York media? I actually don't think New York is harder than like other, I think there's other markets that are tougher. You know, I think Boston, I think Philadelphia, I mean the Northeast in general, I think it can be pressure cookers in general. But some of the even the smaller markets can be really, you know, there are bubbles, like when I was at University of Notre Dame, it's a bubble, like a national brand, but it is a bubble, you know, in like a small town in Indiana, South Bend, Indiana, Northern Indiana. But it can feel like that's your whole world and being criticized in that world is, it's what it's all about and it can get to you. But that's my point is like, I think it's only as big as you make it. And I think you bring up a good point, which is like, if you can't manage that and you're not managing that well, you do have to actually work at it or else. It's going to continue to get to you. Like Evan Ingram, I thought was a good example of somebody who at first, you know, was embrace New York and then, you know, as New York started to reject him, you could see it really affecting him, how he was behaving, how he was handling it, how he was communicating, how he was playing. Like it was, it was bleeding into everything about him. And then you saw him, he was trying to manage a lot of that, but then you saw him sign in Jacksonville, go to Florida and essentially like a weight lifted off of his shoulders, you know, somebody who, because of the circumstances, it got to him a certain way. And then he addressed it and moved on and that was better for it. So, you know, that's a really good question though. Flip says doing hard knocks was a big mistake. It exposed them as weak and incompetent. That's pretty well said. Let's see. Yes, there's Tommy saying health and wealth to all. Appreciate you, Tommy, as always. Tommy says giants should have paid Barkley instead of instead, they gave dumpster juice Jones. That's a new one to fail 12 and 13 personnel has to be the way moving forward. Luckily, we don't, we didn't play the cowgirls would have been 40 to nothing. Jones and coaching has to go. Well, the Cowboys are on deck in week four. Dave Z says a sports psychologist to get their heads right. I guess I'm from a different era because that is charm and soft. Maybe have guys on the team that absolutely can't stand losing and act accordingly. Well, Dave, I don't disagree with the idea that, that listen, you want to, you want to add players and competitors onto your team that are going to fight to the end, no matter what, right? No doubt about it and be resilient. But that's something that at every level of sports, you know, especially in pro sports and college sports, like high level big money sports. That's a real thing. These guys are playing a high volume amount of high pressure stake situations and snaps and reps and in games in front of, you know, tens of thousands of people. And these guys are human. So some guys deal with depression just like you or me. Some, some guys have, you know, let's say like pre game nerves before they get out there and they actually start performing in the game and then they can settle down, right? There's a lot, a lot of different ways that humans react to that type of stage. So I think you'd be probably surprised. You know, I mean, I guess, you know, I like, I know how you're saying you're old school in that regard. But, you know, people are different. And like I said, I do think the, the market, the criticism, especially with social media nowadays, like, I think I've said this before on this podcast, but I consider myself a pretty fixed skin person. But, you know, there have been times in my career where the social media, vitriol and criticism and nastiness has gotten to me, like really gotten to me. Even though I was doing my best not to hear it, not to look at it, not to internalize it. So, you know, we all know that that's part of what set Evan Neal off into kind of taking on the fans last year, which is something that he regretted doing and apologized for. But that's just one example of, you know, things can get to you. And why 315 assassin says the GM needs to be gone, in my opinion. The kid says we can't stop the run. Pass rush was nonexistent. What else we had drops. It looked like we left our offensive game plan in the locker room. GM is a huge problem, says and why. Showtime says Shane said this is the year for Daniel. That statement is comical. Daniel has never shown talent to carry a team. Shane should have signed Barclay to keep as many good players around him as possible. I do agree with that point. I will go to my grave on that point, that if you are really doing the best thing for Daniel Jones, you find a way to keep SACwan and you draft Malik neighbors. Dan says, Dave, I'm old school too. Unfortunately, today's player is just not the same. Jay Moss says, what's the feeling around the Giants front office? Sorry, we talked about that. Dave says with decks on the field, the run defense is better. But even with him out there, they still can't set the edge. The second he comes out, the wheels completely fall off. Yes, good points there, guys. Let's see. Tommy says missed out on many coaches that would have made a difference because maybe, maybe Dabel is just a better OC and not a head coach. It's just gruesome to watch. That tends to happen a lot too. Like Pat Sherman, a better offensive coordinator than a head coach. Ben McAdoo, a better offensive coordinator than head coach. Just two examples of offensive minds the Giants have brought in who they were not equipped as much as you would expect or need for the head coaching seat. Mark says, I lived through the last 13 years. Mark, thank you for another sticker and chat, super chat there. Really appreciate it. Joe Winograd says, Pat, do you think the New York media and fans make it uniquely hard to succeed in New York? Is that possibly a not necessarily the only common denominator? No, I don't think so, Joe. Like I said, have you ever, maybe not. I mean, if you've never lived there, then it's not a reason for you to. But if you've ever lived in, let's say, Boston or Philadelphia or some of these other markets where like one loss by one of the teams that's in season or competing or contending just sets off the, it's like lighting a fire on your radio basically with talk radio and people venting angrily and calling for jobs all the time. You know, there's so much in those markets I think that even become more pressure cooker than even New York. And I know New York fans expect the best and they want the best, but my experience in New York is I feel like New York fans in general, like, let's just put it this way. I've been pretty critical of the giants for most of my time covering the team in the organization because what I see is a lot of dysfunction or reasons why they're not succeeding elements of their operation that need to change. And they've just done a lot of losing because of all those things while I've been there, right? And I feel like part of the reason I bumped heads with fans early on was because I think a lot of the New York fan base, especially for a giants team that had won two Super Bowls in '07 and '11 there, which was relatively close when I got on the beat in 2016. I felt like the New York fan base was actually giving the giants like an enormous benefit of the doubt, giving Eli Manning an enormous benefit of the doubt, giving the team, you know, essentially like a lot of responses to the types of things and criticisms I would levy would be, you know, this organization does things either with class or the right way or how dare you say that, those types of things. So in other words, a lot of fans defending the organization. And so that's just me pointing out that I feel like it's not that way in all these markets. I feel like New York fans from what I've seen, they're very loyal to the team even to a fault, like even to the point where, like, look at the Knicks, for example, Knicks fans so loyal to an organization with bad ownership and bad management for, you know, decades, right? Just a joke of an organization a lot of the time. And obviously now it's looking really exciting and might end up being the most exciting team in New York here for a while now. But my point is that I feel like in New York, yes, there's a lot of attention media wise and fan wise, but I don't necessarily always think it's negative, especially coming from the fans. I feel like the fans defend their team a lot here in New York. And then, you know, now, as we sit here now on September 9th, 2024, I think what's unique about what we're seeing right now with the Giants is the New York fan base has just thrown up his hands here on this team and said, "Enough? Enough of this." And I actually think this is really unique how, not rashly, but how intensely and intensely disgusted the fan base is so early in a season. I think this is unique. So Joe, I think that I do think there are individual athletes though, who they feel the attention more because they're not used to it. They've played in smaller markets. They're not accustomed to this, those types of things, you know what I mean? All right, let's see. Mo says everybody panicking, chill out at September, sloppy football. We still win preseason mode. Oh my gosh, they're going to give him a fair shot and he reminds me of 90s Dave Brown. Let's see. D-Kit says, "Maybe it's time to play our developmental QB. Oh yeah, we don't have one. Do people think, still think neighbors is QB proof?" Yeah, we will see. Small sample size so far there for him. No Met says, "I remember when everyone laughed off Dan Campbell." Yeah, no, good point. Campbell is imperfect, right? He is, but one thing he does is motivate and the other thing he and Brad Holmes do is what? They have a team that has a defined identity. They know exactly what they are. They draft players to fit that identity, who fit into the way they want to run a team, the way they want the locker room to go, right? Like everything fits an overall and overreaching philosophy of how to build a team and how to play football. So, like I could sit here, obviously, criticize Dan Campbell, some of his decision making the playoffs, things like that, but to your point, leader of men, defined identity for a team, right? Guys will run through a brick wall for him, so going to keep getting into these questions. I want to tell you guys one more time about boom chaga mushroom super drink, a natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory immune boosting antioxidants and heart healthy compounds. You can pour this natural liquid supplement into any of your favorite drinks. I put mine in my coffee every morning and immediately feel the difference. I personally have felt a post-workout like energy boost with boom. Chaga also has the ability to lower cholesterol, reduce inflammation and improve immune and heart health with its beta gluten and antioxidants. Go to boomchaga.com today to place your first order, and if you use the discount code talking about 25 or access it through the QR code on your screen, you will get 25% off your first subscribe and save order right now, that means a month's supply costs you only $30. Start feeling the difference today at boomchaga.com. And guys, if you want to support this channel, the best way to do it is to buy a bag of this boom chaga, $30 with the discount, 25% off either the code or the QR code here on your screen. And remember, subscribe and save order to do it to use the code, but you can cancel this subscription after your first order, no harm done. I do think though you will love the product and you'll keep it. Also brought to you by a state 98 coffee, go to a state98.com/talkingball to get a special buy one, get one free deal and buy bet online. All right, Dave G says, what's going on with Jalen Hyatt, Pat? Well, Dave, first of all, Jalen Hyatt looks like, listen, Dari Slaton in the concussion protocol now, I mean, this opens the door for, now this is your turn, Jalen Hyatt, like let's go. It's time to see what you got. What's happening with Hyatt is, you know, he came out of college as a bullet in a cough award winner, but with criticisms of his ability to run the full route tree and be somebody that they can utilize in all aspects and leave on the field, run blocking, you know, catching balls underneath, running routes underneath, having enough of a concept and an understanding of the playbook to have that mastered so that you can be trusted in many different situations and Hyatt, even though they have tried to give him every opportunity to win that job and to prove he is consistent and reliable in all those facets, he has not been able to prove that to them yet overall. And that's why he's not on the field consistently. He is still, at the moment, the player that it looked like the entire league had judged him to be in that draft, which is, you know, I don't want to use the word one trick pony, but he's a guy who goes deep well, has super speed and can take the top off a defense, but there's nothing else in his game that profiled at the moment to people around the league that he did consistently enough to be selected above the third round. Now, I always point to that catch he made in Buffalo, Tyrod Taylor gave him a chance to make a play over the middle. He took a big hit, made a catch on a fourth down to keep that drive alive. They don't win the game, but I thought that was something that a lot of people didn't think he could do in the NFL, and he did. So he has shown flashes of those things, but Dave, the bottom line is they obviously want to see more. And I talked to, I talked to Jalen Hyatt about this in the summer, and he was very adamant that it was time for him to show that he could be a dog for them, that he could be consistent. He said, I'm just trying to show the coaches every, I can do everything. I'm confident in myself, confident in my abilities. I feel like I can run anything I need to run. When that happens, you got to take advantage of your opportunities and make it the most of it, and that's what I'm trying to do. I did talk to him too about, you know, last year where, so he had a 100 yard game against a New England Patriots, right, five catches for 109 yards in a win in week 12. But after that, like, I don't know if people recognize this. After that week 12, 100 yard game, he had only a total of six catches for 43 yards and the Giants final five games of the season. So that's in five games had six total catches for 43 yards. So he was telling me in August that was a hard stretch. He said it was hard. I came off the Patriots game. It was my first 100 yard game, and then the next week was kind of hard for me to get a target. It plays with you mentally, especially for me, coming from Tennessee, getting the ball almost every play, having a thousand yards, scoring touchdowns, it was difficult for me mentally. But I think it helped me. It helped me this offseason, prepared me, showed me what you got to do to win. It's hard in this league, and that's the first taste I got of it. And what he said ultimately, what he needs to do is being consistent is how he stays on the field. If you're consistent, you stay on the field, he said, getting open, catching the ball when it comes to you, when it's not coming to you, are you still winning on your routes? Are you blocking down field? There's a lot of things the coaches want to see. So that was as clear and honest and open and helpful of an answer that you're going to get from a player. I mean, he's essentially telling you there what they're asking him to do, what they're asking him to get better at. So that's where we stand with Jalen Hyatt, is he's still trying to prove them right for drafting him and prove that he can do all the things they want him to do in order to keep him on the field. Elias says, Pat, if we fully clean house, do you see interim GM head coach trading guys getting capital? Who would you want to personally see in the front office head coach, Belichick? Elias, I was saying earlier, you know, I would definitely take a stab at Will McClay in Dallas. I think he's really good at what he does. I would love to try to see if I could get him out of there. I don't know if I could, but I would definitely make the phone call. The Bill Belichick has to be, you know, your first call as well head coaching wise. And I think you'd have to, I would get right to the point, you know, I want to know, Bill, what would it take for you to come here? I know you like, if I'm John Mayer, Bill, I know you love the Giants, you always have. We love you as a giant. This is where you built your entire legacy. The fan base would welcome you with open arms as far as embracing the history and tradition and you would kind of tie it all together and bring us back to the promised land, elevate your legacy, try to catch Tom in the, you know, the Super Bowl chase. You have six. He has seven, right? He got that one with the Buccaneers. So tell us, what's it going to take like that? That would be, you know, that I would, I would want to know that. And I would go from there interim, you know, yeah, I mean, if you, if you fired, see, if you, let's say you fired, that's a really good question. So I'm thinking about the roster and what it looks like. So if an interim head coach and GM came in late in the season, what would they do if it was a lost year? How would they operate with this roster? Yeah. I mean, I do think, you know, that would be a situation where a guy like Slaton, if the, like if this season goes down the tubes and let's say, able gets fired early, stuff like that, then definitely, I think you're seeing a trade of Darius Slaton, for example. I mean, I don't, they don't have, they have a lot of guys locked up on contracts, right? There's not a ton of veterans on this team that are like easily tradable and desirable for the short, short term that aren't under like a significant contract, right? Like there's Greg Van Rotten, right guard, I don't think you're getting much from, for him in a trade. And then, you know, Jason Pinnock at safety, but Pinnock's still a relatively young player, I think, right? How old is he? Jason Pinnock. So Jay is, yeah, he's only 25, so yeah, so I mean, they don't, they don't profile with a ton of players that it's like, Oh, let's offload this guy for capital. I mean, I guess you could start looking at, okay, Devin Singletary, because we have young running backs, but you also, you can't be in a position as an organization where you're constantly getting rid of good players either. Like that's one thing that you have to be careful of. So yeah, you would, you would sell assets. The short answer is you would sell off some assets that you could in that, in that regard. But you don't want to clean house of all of your talent from your organization either, right? I do think though, Elias, we'll see how the leadership handles, you know, this next stretch here, but the locker room leadership of their top players, like a guy like Dexter Lawrence stands out to me, they need to start saying and doing all the right things here to kind of rein this in, keep the culture, you know, improve the culture, make it like a strong locker room dynamic. You know, if that doesn't happen and part of them falling off is the locker room souring and getting, let's say, you know, if not toxic, then, you know, full of a bunch of guys saying me and I, rather than we and us, then I think that could be where you start looking at, like, you know, big name top players leadership. But you know, we don't know if it's going to proceed that way. And then also you have to remember again, like I said, like great players don't just grow on trees. So you don't want to just get rid of good players all the time. Mark Sullivan checks in again, five bucks. Thank you, Mark. The Giants management give you the cold shoulder when you're critical. Good question. I still have professional productive conversations with people in the Giants management despite being critical. I think what I find, Mark, is that yes, yes, there are people who are extremely sensitive in the NFL in different organizations in the league, NFL, PA players, whatever. There are also some people who don't like to engage at all, but there are also a group of people around the league and around football, college football, agents, et cetera. There are people who understand that you have a job and they appreciate that you know they have a job. And so if everybody knows the drill, right, like they know, for example, like there could let's just say there's somebody who works in the Giants front office right now. And they don't love that I'm critical of their team and they want to win, but they also know that their team's not playing well and they played poorly in the first week and that you know, none of the things I'm saying when I'm being critical are wrong or unfair. Now if you say things that are unfair, right, like if you, let's say you, if you just make like a broad strokes, generalized assumption or statement about something that is wrong and then you criticize the team for that, that is something that justifiably someone from the team might call you on or text you on or give you a cold shoulder on and say, how can you say that? Like that's not, that's not accurate or how can you say that that's, that's not indicative of who we are or, you know, that's not true because this is actually what happened in that situation, right? So that happens, you know, but I think also like there are, you know, in that situation, for example, if it comes back to me and if I was in the wrong, someone who rushed to judgment or said something unfair about somebody, then I have to understand that the reality of the situation, the lay of the land and know they have a job and I have a job and that it does matter that you're fair to them and that, you know, in those situations, either saying I'm wrong or correcting it or both, you know, but yet again, just like I said about the, the New York market and how people feel handle it differently and feel it differently, there are different ways people like say GMs or coaches or executives or scouts or whoever, there are different ways that they take it. Like some people take it personally. Some people don't. Some people respect what you do. Some people don't. Some people try to control you as a reporter and as a media member or they, or they just write you off because they assume because you don't help them that you're critical and that therefore you're an enemy, right? Some people view you as an ally. Some people view you as a resource. As long as you have the respect element between each other, then you can work together. Joe Winnegrad checks in with a big 20 spot. Joe, thank you so much. Joe says, "I'm a third generation Giants fan, grandpa listened to them on the radio back in the day. Glad you're listening to how our us die-hards feel. I feel the Giants have lost their way completely and I don't think they know why it's broken. It's sad." Yeah, Joe, you hit it right on the head there. I think this is where a lot of fans are right now, which is it just really isn't obvious where it goes from here and that's why I titled our conversation where the Giants go from here because I want to try to help you guys see it, try to help you guys understand it. To me, the first step is, as always, an autopsy from the top down, including ownership of how they make decisions, so that includes their hiring practices and processes of general managers and head coaches. I think they need to do that differently. I think they need to, even though they have embraced doing a lot of parts of their operation differently by going and hiring outside the family with Joe Shane, for example, and giving him power and independence in his decision-making and his operations, I think that the Giants really need to ... This is an inexact thing, Joe, but why do they not adequately judge who and what they are? That is something that I mentioned this earlier. Why do they struggle understanding where they sit and where they stand in the structure and in the ladder, the 1 through 32 of the NFL? It doesn't mean you know exactly where the 20th best team going in and we know that, but you should know at certain positions, instead of, let's say, trying to convince yourself your line is fixed or trying to convince yourself your quarterback is good enough when he's not or try ... These types of decisions where they fall in love with their own players, they fall in love with their own picks, they become overly enamored with elements of their own process and they don't want to abandon all the work and trust they put into that process and I understand that to an extent, but you have to understand that it doesn't take long, I guess, from my vantage point, it doesn't take long to, let's say, you know, you walk on the practice field against the Jets and you see ... The Jets right now are getting beaten pretty thoroughly by the San Francisco 49ers. You walk on it's only one practice day, I know, but you can see a difference in the way the players are moving and their size and their ability at certain positions, same with the Detroit Lions practices, right? Even though the Giants made some good plays and held their own at times at certain spots, you can still see a difference in the team's ability and the team's attitudes and the way that they're practicing differently. It stands out and as the Giants, as an organization, as a team, you need to be not only assessing that and watching that and evaluating that, you also need to be correcting yourself and improving yourself by having the correct takeaways from those situations, you know? So be honest with yourself when you practice against or play against a certain team. Like for example, the Houston Texans preseason game. You know, I find it very hard to believe that they came out of that game and didn't know that they were going to be a really bad team. I think they knew that this team was going to be, you know, I think it would be impossible for them to look at this roster and be competent and think that they were going to be really good this year. But I think let's see, Tommy says, Quinn, yours has to be the pick to UT Hookham horns, Texas gunslinger is the key to the Giants future. Please John Mara, make the move focus on getting yours in the draft and Bill Belichick come back home to get the Giants right. Mike Egan says, which quarterback will be the first to throw for 500 yards this season? Wow. Yeah, that's a good that's a good question. Well, it's probably going to be a quarterback whose team is down. So let's see. I'll go with 500 yards, if someone throws for 500 yards this season, I'll say it's Trevor Lawrence. That's what I'll go with Trevor Lawrence. OG says the season is over already, Pat. I'm calling it now. Let's see. Jim Osborne says, Tommy Cutlitz couldn't beat out Tim Tebow. Socrates says, question, just curious, what was there is holding Drew Lockback from taking the job away from Daniel Jones? I liked him when he came out in the draft and when he played at Seattle last year. Yeah, didn't have a, didn't have a special camp, got a lot of, obviously all the snaps with the ones in the spring. You know, he does now have enough of a command of the offense because of all his work with the ones in the spring and also worked enough with those guys to have some chemistry there. But unfortunately, recently he has not been getting those snaps and he had the oblique injury, obviously, because wasn't protected well by the line in the preseason. So that was part of it as well. He was injured Socrates during the second half of camp there. And so Debow saying he's capable now and he's healthy enough to play now. But really Socrates, there were, you know, when Daniel Jones was struggling at times in camp, Drew Lock would step in with the twos and would not, would not do anything to make you say, not only is Daniel Jones struggling, but Drew Lock is playing really, really well. Like that's what happened when Tyrod Taylor was here. You know, you remember like three days into my first year when Tyrod, into the year when Tyrod was first here, three days into that camp, Daniel was playing really poorly and Tyrod Taylor was sizzling with the second team. And I'm sitting there like, well, this guy's better, you know, and you just didn't, that never happened with Drew Lock. Now, technically, how was he playing? I think he has shown that he throws a pretty good deep ball, but when he extends the play, he tends to be a little bit loose with it, tries to fit it in, has confidence in his ability, makes decisions. Like you saw that one interception against the Lions in the preseason game where he just threw it right to the defender, like it'll look good, it'll look good, and then it'll just be like a sudden, what was that, you know, is, is kind of what we've seen so far. But he does have physical tools, he can move, you know, the way that Donald ran play action pretty well for the Vikings, like I could see Drew Lock doing something like that, I could easily see him being coached by somebody like Kevin O'Connell and doing something similar to what Donald did against the Giants. But he's being coached by Brian Dable. He's supposed to be an offensive quarterback guru though, so he should be making it happen, right? G-Men says, Pat, sorry for jumping in late, no problem. Yesterday's game was an absolute embarrassment, Jones is going to get Dable fired when it's all said and done, tough times I'm a realist and optimist, but I see where this is going. Joshua says, "Where do we go from here feels inevitable that everyone will lose their jobs this year, or do we enter another wacky cycle where the GM stays and we just continue to spiral?" Yeah, that's a really good question, Joshua, I think, I'd say this, everything's on the table right now, everybody getting fired's on the table, everybody getting fired is on the table. I think Shane Stang and the coach and quarterback getting fired is on the table, and then of course, as we all hope, the turnaround is on the table, but it has to start now, right? Like I think you guys would agree, they need to beat the Browns and the commanders and the Browns here before that Dallas game in order for anybody to have any kind of faith that this season is going to be anything worth watching. But as one of my friends in town said today, he said, "At least I get my Sundays back." And yeah, Joshua, I think to be clear though, where do we go from here is your question. I think where they go is, "Listen, I came into this season saying they were only going to win four games and I thought it was going to mean everyone was going to get fired. And so I think that's what's going to happen. And I think the first game did nothing to change how I feel about the team." Coach Dave says, "Why did it take so long for people to see this guy was terrible?" Good question. Socrates says, "Hey, Pat, is there anywhere we can read your work if we are not in the New York area? I would love to read your articles and takes on the Giants and other sports related topics." Thanks, Socrates. Yeah, are you a daily news subscriber, Socrates? You can subscribe online, nydailynews.com. So nydailynews.com, you subscribe to the site. It is not expensive to subscribe to the daily news website, like you're not getting the print newspaper, you're just reading the website. It's cheap and gets you much more than just my work, but you can read all of my Giants content. Socrates, you could access that pretty easily if you just go on my X account or Twitter, P. Leonard, NYDN. And you'll see one of my top posts right now is my latest column on the fans kind of giving up right now on the team until they see otherwise. And you can click on that and it'll ask you to sign up, but I don't know how cheap it is right now, but you'll get a deal. That's what I could tell you. So nydailynews.com. And then you put backslash sports, that'll take you to the main sports page. Joshua says, "Can you get Daniel Jones from Boom Chaga?" I should. I should. Hey, Daniel, I got some, I got some boom for you, man, let's go. R.U. Giant says, "I went viral for the viral after the fake video. People don't understand how mad you get when you watch that in person and spend all that money and drinks. I was walking to the train and we see the," let's see, R.U. says, "I'm guessing you saw that video of the people heckling Daniel Jones after the game. When you have to pay all that money and sit through that, you're going to be pissed. There was about 90 to 100 people there after the game. That video was mine and went everywhere. My phone was blowing up. My friends took it with us." "Oh, interesting. You took that video, R.U. All right. Thank you for pointing that out. Really interesting." Yeah. No, I like what you said too there about, you know, you pay your hard earned money and everything. And, you know, like I said, I do think you guys really liked this episode, but Benny Fowler on our episode of Talking Ball with Pat Leonard on Monday morning, that's up now on the YouTube page, PL on NFL, or on the audio for Believe Network on Apple, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts, you know, Benny pointed out, like, you know, you have to think about it. People are paying hard earned money and the economy is in a tough spot right now. So if I'm paying top dollar to come to MetLife Stadium to watch football with my family, find parking, walk, and then I see that type of performance, I'm going to be pissed, especially if I have to sit back in New York traffic on the way back home. So, I'm with you, I'm with you there. All right. Yeah, no, that's, I mean, I do think that was a little too far there, that the way Daniel was being treated and in that manner, but of course, the booing, there's nothing wrong with booing the way they played, they're not, and the way he played, they're not playing well enough, right? Mo says Pat, a lot of blame should land on Debo and his play call and there were no attempts to get the safeties worrying about the run, the play calling was abysmal. I agree with you, Mo. Also not only know it's not enough attempts to get the safeties worried about the run, the giants aren't a good running offense, they can't move the line of scrimmage with their offensive line, it's a problem. Mo says also Green Bay and other players, Xavier McKinney, catching the interception, we let go. Yep. Socrates says, could the whole Daniel Jones experience be making the Giants gun shy on taking a risk on a quarterback they obviously desperately need? You mean, as far as like signing a free agent right now and trying to bring somebody in to fix it last minute? You know what I think, I think it's kind of like from ownership standpoint, it's probably like, hey, we signed him, this GM was a part of signing him, the coach was here, we brought him here to be an offensive expert to get it done while Tyrod Taylor in the game for the Jets right now, by the way, in garbage time here as the Jets are trailing, looks like 32 to 19 after a failed two point conversion. So the Jets are going to lose. So, you know, to your question about whether the Giants signed a free agent, I think it's just, this is, you know, this was the decision we made, we were going to run it back with Daniel, you hear John Maris saying, this is what I still believe in this guy, I'm still glad we signed him to that contract, I still think he's worth that contract. And so, you know, make it work guys, like that's the way I view it. So, let's think about this, so in the last couple of months, we've heard John Maris say, I'm still glad that we signed him, and we've heard Joe Shane say to another GM, at least you don't have to still look for a quarterback, interesting. Where my entertainer says, giving $100 million to a trash quarterback is even worse than drafting a bust top 10, somehow the Giants did both. John Mugh says Daniel didn't forge the GM signature on his contract, exactly. Facts, John, where my entertainer says, he also didn't let Barkley and McKinney walk for nothing awful management. Socrates says, how does that work if Mara wants to get rid of Dable at the end of the year, but not Shane, with the constant turnover in the coaching in front office? What are the possibilities that Shane stays? You know, traditionally, the GM seat with the Giants is safer than the coaching seat. And obviously, in a lot of organizations, it happens that way, too. But traditionally, the Giants try not to and do not often turn over the general manager's seat and their front office, they don't like to do that. But, and also, also, John Maris on the record saying he does not view Joe Shane and Brian Dable as a package deal, which was a very big quote from him, because that is him saying, I could fire one and not the other, right? Once it comes down to it, that's the precursor to that potential decision and possibility, right? So, Socrates, I think it really comes down to, I do think, based on hard knocks and then by reporting and other things we've talked about just here, you know, I think there seems to be an interesting, potentially touchy dynamic there between Shane and Mara. You know, I'm not sure if it's as rosy as you would think of the traditional Giants ownership and general manager relationship to be, definitely doesn't come off that way at all. Saquon Barkley, Decisions, Daniel Jones decision, all that. So, you know, I think what the possibility that Shane stays, I think the way it has to look is a lot of the infrastructure of the roster needs to look better. So, the draft picks need to start playing better. Guys need to start developing and talents that he's picking, like some of his value players in the third round, right? Second rounders. Let alone, we know there's been a lot of first rounders who aren't working out already, at least those first two in the first draft, K-Von and Evan Neal, both of which you need to see more from Neal, not even a contributor right now, number seven overall pick. But you know, Shane needs some of those players to start contributing and becoming like main parts of this organization and of this team. If that doesn't happen, then that's where he loses his job as well. If a lot of the team that he is building looks pretty good and encouraging for the future, youth-wise, developmental-wise, draft pick-wise, but it's obvious that the coaching staff is not getting the most out of a really talented roster, let's say, that they interpret it that way, that's how he stays, right? But I personally don't look at the field and feel like we're going to see that come to pass. Like I said, there are some young players I like, the Tyrone Tracy, Tyler Neuben, guys like that, and I do think neighbors can be a building block for a long time. But I don't think necessarily Socrates that you're getting in a position where I personally think if it goes bad this year, it's going bad because of a lot of different reasons. And therefore, everyone gets the boot. Let's see. Tommy says, "Bill Belichick, come back home, get to the Hall of Fame winning with the franchise, you belong to, get this culture back to Smash Mouth football, dominating the trenches. It's been a black cloud over the organization." Matthew says, "Did they all have anything else to say after reviewing the take, particularly on the lack of QB pressures on Darnold?" So wasn't very helpful there. He said about the defense. So what did you think of the pass rush as a whole? And Kvonne and Brian Burns' tandem was the question. And Aziz was out there too. Dabel said, "I think some of the games were good, the stunts and the games we used. The pressure was really good inside with Dexter when he lined up in there. They played the game. They played it well. They were playing in favorable situations. They get up. We get down. The game's controlled a little bit. So we got to do a better job of playing complimentary football, offense, defense, kicking game, to make sure we can get into more of those situations." Then he said he thought Shane Bowen was prepared and did a good job. I think that's a little bit ridiculous to say that the game dictated how the defense played because yes, they fell behind eventually. But the game started with their defense forcing a turnover and the offense scoring and giving them a lead. So they took a lead right off the bat. It wasn't a touchdown, but they took a lead right off the bat. It's not like they didn't have a chance in that situation to make a difference with their pass rush. But that's what he said. The one thing that keeps getting me is the good preparation that they have. I thought we had a good week of preparation. Again, it's on all 11 players, the coaches, it's on me. So we'll work hard to fix that and come up with something better than we did against Washington. I mean, just horrible stuff to listen to. Alex says, "The issue with firing Dable but keeping Shane is that head coach candidates can see the type of weak roster that Shane has built due to his horrible drafting." That is true, that is true. That is true. I do think someone like Lou Adirumo would be a fit if Joe Shane remained here because Adirumo and Shane are friends who work together in Miami and Adirumo is somebody who overdo a head coaching job. So that could be somebody maybe that you would attract and who would create alignment there. But of course, the Bengals defense has to bounce back and continue to be giving them the advantage that they have over the years. Bounce back from last year, that was not as good last year. Let's see. Eric says, "If the Giants offense can't crack 20 points versus the commanders, oh boy. Indeed, oh boy." And the commanders look like a vulnerable team playing a lot of drop zone, kind of like the Giants do. That's a team influx in rebuild. And with a lot of talent lacking in certain key areas, so you're absolutely right. If they keep Shane and hire a new coach, how would the new head coach feel safe of Shane's job? If it's Shane's job is at risk the next year? Yeah, no, that's a good question. And that's, you know, you're talking about the situation like the Pat Schurmer firing with Dave Gettleman staying when Joe Judge came in. And so that's why you don't want an arranged marriage, right? You do want alignment if you're going that way. But no, I agree with you. I think, you know, you're putting pressure on the GM there and listen, it's just going to be hard for them to be bad enough where they're firing the coach and not the GM this year. Because if they get that bad, this is the GM's team and roster and he's involved in, you know, game day usage decisions and things like that, right? Joe Shane gets one more off season, one more draft, let's be fair, says Eric, okay? So fair is to you for seasons and for drafts. Where are my entertainers said earlier on hit the like buttons 35 out of 120. Let's go. Thank you guys. Really appreciate it. Please hit those like buttons while we are live. That helps drive engagement and tells YouTube, tells the algorithm, tells Giants and NFL fans who don't know we're here that we are here and that we do this talking ball live with Pat Leonard Mondays, Thursday nights and post game lives after every Giants home and road game. So after this game against the commanders this weekend, I will be down there at that dump of a stadium in a box somewhere where I can find some quiet and some peace talking to you all about what we saw on that field in that horrendous, unwelcoming stadium from a bad angle viewpoint in the press box. Dave Z says, if I could hit the like button more than once I would, Tommy says, please make a move for any of the quarterback Steelers might have might be better than what's going on currently with the Giants roster. Eric says Joe Shane needs to be attending college games on Saturdays, identify your quarterback, Eric not sure if you missed it, but we did actually go over a bunch of the college quarterbacks, top college quarterbacks earlier with the stats and kind of outlook on Quinn, you were as Cam Ward, Carson Beck, Jackson Dart, Shador Sanders and company. So definitely having those conversations. Undefined says, did able complain about his quarterback while getting beat by Sam Darnold? Everyone is going to look bad when the other teams severely outcoached you. There you go, no doubt. He was severely outcoached. Wreck laws says Daniel Jones has average to below average ball velocity and is hesitant to fit the ball in the tight places. He is also a one read quarterback in a ticket slow through going through progressions and he double clutches. Yes, that's no doubt. Let's see, let's see, Scott doesn't want Shador Sanders, Randy says nothing is guaranteed in the draft, but wanting to draft a guy who hasn't played yet is crazy, I see you guys talking about arch manning, right, like, yeah, yeah, hard to plan for deep into the future for a guy who hasn't, hasn't started and played. Eric says, Jyzeny, an electric quarterback that makes plays off platform an electric runner, runner like Leary or Hampton, Dave says, I can see John Maris saying to whoever is the GM is to move heaven and earth for another manning, Drew says, why didn't some key guys play? So Isaiah Simmons, to me, I said this in the preseason, that I thought that Wink Martindale not being here was going to be bad for Isaiah Simmons, you know, there was all this conversation about, hey, look, they're you going to use Isaiah Simmons in a better way. You're going to use them differently, all this stuff. But then Shane Bowen indicated that he was still figuring out early in training camp how he was going to use them at all. And I think Martindale used Simmons correctly and in a targeted way, playing into his strengths, using him as a blitzer, covering running backs on third downs, you know, being multiple, using that athleticism. He has ball skills as well, right, remember the, the pick six to ice the game in Washington, where they would be playing now on Saturday or on Sunday, this weekend and week two. So, you know, him not playing, he was actually, day ball was asked about that today. He said that basically their decision was because they were starting new bin. They made Dane Belton, the money backer or the extra third safety rather than using Simmons there. But to me, you know, bringing Simmons back and then not using him is not necessarily something I would expect to go over very well. But I'm interested to see what feedback there comes, you know, comes from that, you know, as we come out of week one and into week two. I think, you know, you have, you sign a player like that, but you don't use them on defense. That's pretty confusing to me. All right. Um, let's see, what else you're asking about some other key guys, Jill and Hyatt already answered that, um, you know, needs to be more consistent. He told me that even in the summer and then, um, other players who did not play as much Daniel Bellinger told you guys, Theo Johnson was going to be tight end one and that Bellinger was falling, you know, out of favor, as far as the depth chart goes, Chris Manhertz is a guy that they trust a lot, um, more so even than Bellinger as a blocker. That's why Manhertz is here and who else did not play primary guys, Mike McFadden's banged up. He has a groin injury. So for some reason, the Giants were allowed to not list him on the injury report, but he has a groin injury and he was on a pitch count, even if he did play according to Dable. Um, Evan Neal, uh, don't know. I mean, he has, he did play in the preseason, eventually coming off that ankle. So he was available. I don't know how much the, the foot was limiting him drew Phillips. I think only played a little bit because of the ankle as well, even though he did have the force fumble. Ashley says, Pat, what did you think of Dables play calling? I thought there was no imagination, didn't see any crossing patterns screens, didn't see any deep balls called Ashley, what stood out to me was that sequence near midfield where he had the two quarterback runs and then punted it fourth and three on the 49. I thought that was a give up white flag call in the second quarter. There was offense needed a spark. He showed no faith in his offense, um, no faith in his deep, you know, defense. I just, I thought playing timid, uh, playing not to lose coaching, not to lose, um, showing little confidence in your players and in, and in your plan. I didn't like it at all. As far as the exact play calls, I mean, very clearly they're trying to get the ball down the field match, protect to get the ball down the field. They think neighbors can be that dude and they can, even if they don't have a ton of people running routes and, and, um, you know, even if they only have, let's say, neighbors single terry in a tight end, they think that neighbors can beat the coverage that he's good enough to do that. So they were trying to trust him with that, but yeah, definitely you'll conceived. I mean, you could see eventually it was like, we need diaries slating on the field, like to, you know, to make, uh, you know, to make Daniel Jones more comfortable and it gets some completions here. So it'll conceived poor job, um, you know, actually shockingly bad considering this is Dave Bull's best attempt to, to save himself is to call good plays and call better plays and prove that he can do it better than it's been done so far with my Kafka. So shocking. Dave G says congrats, bro. I'm pretty sure Dave saying that about, um, us having such a great live post game chat. I think over five and a half thousand views on post game live on Sunday and week one after the Minnesota game and, um, that's definitely a record for talking ball live. Um, you know, so thrilled, thrilled with that and thankful to everybody in our community here who, um, who attended, who's watched, who's viewed it and who continues to participate. Uh, let's see, Dilla, what's going on says cave on and burns better learn to hold that edge or offenses will have their way with us. They can't get caught rushing up the field on a run as much as they were yesterday. Poor awareness. Neither of those players is known for stopping the run well. Let's see, Eric says arch manning is a can't miss prospect. You people complain. He's not a starter. He will have one of the greatest college seasons next year. Joshua Hoek says I also have a fear that we will lose players like Dexter Lawrence and Andrew Thomas who are probably sick of losing and feeling like they are wasting their talents here. Dexter Lawrence definitely comes off to me right now as cranky. Um, obviously he hates the loose. I mean, he comes from Clemson where they were winning all the time when he was there. And, um, I understand that, but, uh, Andrew also was not happy after the game. Andrew was not happy after the game, a great guy accountable guy. Not happy. Like I asked him if he was angry and he said, yes, um, it's frustrating. You only have 17 of these, you know, into wasting opportunity like that is really frustrating. Mr. Godfrey says Vilma said live the wrecks weren't at the spot when Daniel Jones or the receivers weren't at the spot when Daniel Jones is supposed to throw the ball on a timing route also that Daniel Jones doesn't have time to wait for them to get to the spot. Did you see it that way? Um, Mr. Godfrey, I think different plays happen, you know, there were different issues. There were times where the protection, like the offensive line, in my opinion, did not have a very good game, especially the right side of the line. So as a whole, um, I didn't see much pressure come from Thomas. I did feel like run Ian and Van Rodden each gave up their share of pressures and then I thought aluminum was not good. I don't think John Michael Schmitz showed up as a huge weakness in past pro from what I saw live, but I didn't think as a unit, any of them blocked well in the running game either. So, but so I think from my vantage point, Mr. Godfrey, there were plays where, um, there was good protection and Daniel Jones didn't make the right play or Mr. Throat. There were plays where there was too much pressure because of the O line and the blocking wasn't good enough and that broke up the play and I'm sure there were some plays that, you know, the receivers didn't help him out. Like, for example, there was one third down where Daniel Jones made a throw and it kind of tipped off, um, Wandale's hand inside and the throw was way ahead of him and it went in complete. Wandale Robinson, if you watch that play sat his rat route down, but Daniel thought he was going to keep running. So Daniel led him with the ball and Wandale Robinson sat down and so then the ball went that way. So that's a miscommunication and, you know, Daniel expecting his receiver to do one thing into space to go get the first down and Wandale doing another. So whose fault is it miscommunication, but yes, both of them. Mike says, Justin Fields and Daniel Jones have comparable stats and records. Why does Fields deserve a second chance and Daniel deserves to be banished? Um, I, Mike, I think I don't think anybody would be grudged Daniel a second chance somewhere else. I mean, I think, you know, listen, don't aren't there plenty of people on here who think like Daniel Jones could go somewhere else and suddenly be a much better quarterback. I mean, don't we think that especially, especially given the treatment that he's getting here now and how he was essentially booed off the field in week one. I mean, it's kind of like when Evan Ingram at the end where the way he was being treated, it was just fans saying, get this guy out of here. Um, you know, I think he will have another shot and I think he'll be better there. Fly Park says, who is worse, Carolina or the Giants? Carolina might look like a worse team, but they did score 10 points. They did score an offensive touchdown and the Giants didn't. So I don't know, that Munich game looming large, potentially for the number one pick. Brett M says, I want to Josh Allen in 2018 fact, what's up, Pat Brett? You knew it, man. You knew it. The illness as Justin Fields is a far more athletic quarterback in all honesty. There's more to work with when it comes to that kid over Jones. The Pat says, Josh Allen had a big flag and some racist posts on social media. I didn't, I didn't recall that. Um, make Brandon Brown the GM and clean house. I don't want Joe Shane picking the next QBs as OG hard for me to say, keep Brandon Brown and get rid of Joe Shane. Brandon Brown's been a part of all this, these decisions. Um, let's see, Matthew remembers the talk being Daniel Jones or join Haskins in 2019. That was a lot of the talk back then for sure. Um, let's see. Nick Bava says, Pat, please explain the implications of if Jones gets injured and the clause in his contract. Thank you. And great podcast. You got a Nick. Uh, the injury guarantee is this, if Daniel Jones suffers like a major injury that causes him to fail his physical next March, right? So if he is not able to pass a physical next March on the, I think it's by like the fourth or fifth day of the next league year. So that's really like right after the start of free agency. So you know, that would be probably, you know, something like a tour in ACL or anything else that's like a major injury that's recovering from. If he suffers that kind of serious injury while either in a game for the Giants or on the Giants property working out, then 23 million of his $30 million scheduled salary becomes guaranteed. So none of that 30 million is guaranteed at the moment, but 23 million of it becomes guaranteed in March, if he can't pass the physical. So that, that's where that stands. Um, and then, um, let's see, I think it breaks out to, to, so let me see 23 million. So it's Jones is, let me, let me refresh. There's actually like a, there's something more specific to it that I wanted to share with you. So if he sustained, yeah, right. So if he sustains an injury in a workout or practice on the premises that prevents you from passing a physical at the start of the league year 2025, 23 million of that 30 million becomes guaranteed aside from the injury guarantee, 12 million of the 23 million will become guaranteed for skill and cap simply if he's on the roster on the fifth day of the league year next year as well. So in other words, if he's on the team next year on the fifth day of the 2025 league year, 12 million of his 30 million becomes guaranteed for skill and cap. So, you know, non injury. And then the other 11 remains an injury guarantee. But if he's injured and can't pass the physical, all 23 million of that becomes guaranteed, at that point, does that make sense? So Deepat says, Pat, how do you lock in Davido look to you, practice preseason? Could they be better than Jones or no chant? They haven't been during all preseason, just being honest. They have not. Davido has been underwhelming or bad and Locke has had some moments but has not been, has not wowed anybody. Let's see. Have you seen a team go into season with 51? What does that say about Shane? Very strange. Seems like a financial management thing, but hard to hard to put my finger on why it's necessary for them trying to get to the bottom of it. Someone tell the table, this is a game where you throw vertically, not horizontally, definitely not behind the horizontal, even when it worked. The dude, Juan Dale, had to go past three players to get anything, no doubt. Let's see. VFDVR says, Joe judge, let's do two quarterback runs, day bowl, let's do two quarterback runs. What? Chris Sims, a GM, dude knows how to spot a QB. Interesting. OG points out, reminds us that sauce gardener said it all about Daniel Jones in his preseason interview. That's true. Mike Lowe says, I would hire Tom Coughlin as team president right now. Dillis says, neighbors is absolutely a building block, I have no problem with that pick from this past draft. It's the rest of the need picks I completely disagree with. And yes, it was a need base draft. Undefined says confidence by management, they can't even get the game day roster right. By the way, isn't it against league rules to hide injuries? It is very confused about what's going on there, why the league isn't cracking down on that or investigating that, right? I think blowing it up is not the thing to do, Scott Young says, but Brian Dable needs to dig deep and figure out what he needs to do his job. Brett M points out that Cooper BB, the rookie guard who the Giants could have taken is starting for Dallas. If they play like this after week four, I'm out on Shane and meatball. I haven't heard that, I haven't heard that meatball. Oh man, I haven't heard that nickname yet. You got me there. That caught the off guard. Mike Lowe says Dable is not a leader of men career assistant. A2Z me says another late night stream. Very nice. Saw the Tyree kill video, savage gang style cop behavior brutal. Yeah, now that was ugly definitely. If you haven't watched it, really ugly. Todd Banks says burns, four tackles, Darryl Taylor acquired by the Bears for a six round pick eight tackles, including two for a loss, two sacks, one force fumble, pulls is definitely on the right track. Let's see. Benji likes Brandon Brown as well. Kyler says, what do fans have to do to get better results? Boy cop and burn jerseys just year after year of foolishness. My son is for Jones has done nothing since he has walked, talked, gone to school. Let that sit. Yeah. No, really well said Kyler. Yeah. It's it's become the point where this is who the Giants are, right? It used to be. Oh man. The franchise that's used to success has fallen on hard times, but now it's become. This is who they are. That's the really concerning part, right? VF says it's starting to look like it's all about the quarterback in the NFL, Belichick couldn't do much without Brady, table can't do anything without Allen. And as much as the Texans do have a pretty good roster and are looked like they're have good coaching now, I mean, listen, what, what changed them? As a team completely was the quarterback, right? A to Z me says, hostile or wasn't super skilled athletically, but he had the spirit of a leader. I've never gotten that feeling with Jones and he's 200% of a better athlete. Um, Oh, because Brett says DJ reminds me of hostile or not Brown, OG says they'll trade Slaton at the trading deadline. Yeah. I agree. It's headed that way. For sure. And the ill says, let's not disgrace just Jeff, Jeff hostile or like this. Haas wasn't as bad, a bad a player and went on to have some productive years with the Raiders. Um, let's see. A to Z me says Daniel is low Ram Jones needs to upgrade to a better motherboard. Alpha bar says the jets are getting cooked Rogers just through a pick that the only good news for Mara if the jets still stink. Uh, VF DVR says Shane to table on hard knocks. So you would say, Oh, line is the number one priority. Takes table much prodding to say yes. What's that about? Oh, yeah, interesting. Well, it was that one is yet what was that when table had his feet up on the coffee table? I mean, so weird. Socrates says, this is the week for the ruining of my childhood. The Giants are trash and Darth Vader passed away. FML. Yeah. RIP, James Earl Jones, no doubt, uh, let's see where my undertator says 90% of NFL QB success is poised and decision making. If you can't find that guy draft a non quarterback stud, VF says Daniel Jones gets beaten all the time behind porous O line where we don't have as many past Russia's other than Dexter Lawrence. KT no tackles yesterday says Scott should have taken to alignment instead of cave on in that draft says VF. Rhett says Pat, since everyone is pissed at Daniel Jones, who do you think is, he is more pissed at? Gettleman, Dable, Shane, the media, taking five years to get a number one or his O lines getting him crushed and injured. My QB. Uh, Brett, I would say that if, you know, well, listen, I'm not going to say Daniel Jones is mad at anyone, but I hearing all of the chip on his shoulder talk that he's offered to us over the last few, you know, days and weeks and months, I think he's trying to prove this front office wrong. You know, I would, I would say Shane, but also just the front office and the Giants operation leadership right now in general is what Daniel Jones is trying to prove wrong. Uh, let's see, Steven says, Pat, with the unpreparedness of game day game management follow these staff problems, the feet on the table look with meeting the owner on hard knocks makes table look worse to me like, what's up with this guy? I think you answered your own question there. I mean, it's not a good look. Dave Z says Tim McDonald must go as part of the Mara family that's also in the personnel decisions. The F says Barkley was not going to win us the game on Monday. Fix the O line been an issue since toward the ends of Eli, you know, who knows good O line and we could have another super bowl with Eli. Uh, Lou says to be fair, Gettleman guys have been producing more than Shane's guys. That is true Intel says, if you can't handle the heat stay out of the kitchen, I'm not feeling what cave on did to Jordan today. Yeah. So those of you who didn't see, that was yesterday after the game, but Jordan asked a very fair question to cave on to, but oh, about, um, you know, the, the pass rush facing high expectations coming out of a game where they didn't do much and he basically next question them said, does anybody else have a question and wouldn't look at him anymore, uh, was, you know, immature and not something fans want to see or hear from a guy who is supposed to make a lot of plays and made essentially zero, um, including a 15 yard personal foul there, which cave on knows he didn't, he didn't blow up, you know, but he's got to handle those situations differently. The F says this number one thing for neighbors on retired to Jersey was all this distraction needed. Players go bust all the time. What are you doing? Yeah, it was a very strange, very strange. I agree. David G says, Dave will is starting to sound like Joe judge. I assume you mean at the end, right, um, you know, Dave, Dave, Dave will sounds like he knows he doesn't have the team and he doesn't have the answers. And so it's kind of playing out the strings with it sounds like Eric says, I'm watching perky throw incredibly accurate passes and just wishing Brett says, Dave was first and last great move was going for two against the Titan since then, kitten mittens, kitten mittens. I like it, um, someone put a counter on how many times they said better on their conference presser says VF. Yeah, right. R zero B. What's up? Good to see you. R zero B says, Hey, Pat, what's good brother? Hope ball as well. After this game Sunday, where do you think things stand? And if a repeat performance comes next Sunday, do they make a change a QB? Um, I think definitely by week four, when they come back home, if it continues on this track, where they come back home to face the Cowboys, yes, R zero B, I think, um, I think it's inevitable at that point. So does that mean that you put Drew Lock in against the Cleveland Browns in week three? Or does that mean you give Daniel one more chance in week three before going to week four, but I think very clearly in prime time on Thursday night against the Dallas Cowboys, you know, if it continues like it happened, like that's what we're saying. If it keeps, if it stays the way it looked on Sunday against the Vikings and the offenses in that Daniel's playing poorly, I don't know how you can run him out there, um, you know, in front of the home crowd the way they treated him in week one, it'll be an object disaster against the Cowboys, Brian name on Joe Shane, by the way, one and eight against, um, against the Cowboys and Eagles. BF says people seem to forget that they offered Saquon before DJ, Saquon was the one who balked. He wanted more guaranteed money, he felt like he had a bigger market and it turned out he was right that he would make, he could make more money in that teams valued him higher than what the Giants were offering him. So that was, that was the reason why Deepats as cave on, Thibodeau just starts low, poor offensive off season conditioning. He will come on after the buy. Um, let's see. Taylor says the way we played the run this past week, I can already see Brian Robinson and Jaden Daniels giving this defense fits shaking my head exactly, exactly, um, who calls three design runs off an ACL and neck injuries, hmm, says Brett. Oh, yep. Right. Yeah. Daniel took a lot of hits. I think he had five sacks, 12 quarterback hits, and then he had six rushes on top of that. So that's a lot of hits in week one for Daniel Jones and he took some really big ones too. BF says running back safeties, we need to build the trenches, not these luxury items. Maybe they'll have a high pick next year says pale, um, quote, you know, yeah, right. Like that's the, I don't even trust them to make the right pick. See, that's that pale writer is hitting on the issue with Joe Shane right now and the Giants. The issue right now is that, um, even if they have a high pick, hard to count on them making the right pick there, right? Right. So that's what I think a major, major issue. Hold on one second. How to just turn something off there? Um, all right. Let's see. What else do we got in the queue? Tommy says, Bobbi, oh two tackles, one assist, burn zero sacks, tibido, no show, best thing, back sack, move south four tackles to assist, one interception, new bin five tackles to assist only four past deflections by the team, not enough run stops or pressure, pressure is just bad all around. BF says what's it up with Evanneal just put him at guard already. They won't do it. He's their backup right tackle. They won't put him at guard. I don't get it. They have stingy. They have, you know, Van Rotten, they have runny and junior. I just think, I just think they're, I think they're hiding Evanneal. I mean, I, you know, I don't think they intend to play him at all. Brett says maybe wink is a better head coach than a defensive coordinator snap. Ooh, there you go. A to Z me says, if you want hockey, if you want pressure, how about you come play hockey in Montreal? Yes. Exactly. Michael says, do you think the compadres beat us? The game is a way, another goose egg and there has to be a change. You know, my early thought on this game is that I think that, you know, the Vikings have a better coaching staff than the commanders. So Kevin O'Connell, Brian Flores, outcoaching Shane Bowen and Brian Dable. Is Cliff Kingsbury, Dan Quinn? Is that duo going to outcoach Dable and bow in the same way to the same length? I don't know that I would, if I stacked them, I would stack the Vikings higher and more capable of doing so than the commanders. So in that sense, maybe the Giants have a little bit of a better shot. I do think they're going to struggle as somebody said earlier with more of a run based approach coming from Jaden Daniels, Brian Robinson Jr, Austin Echler, you know, short passes, catch and run, Terry McClure, and obviously a tough player who always is a part of the game plan and somebody that the Giants are going to have to handle and I think if they play, if they continue to play a lot of zone on defense, I think they're going to continue to get exposed. So I'm not optimistic that the Giants are going to win the game. Let's see. What is the line right now on this game? Let's see, I actually forgot to look. Let's see. Odds, NFL. All right, let's see. Giants commanders, the commanders are favored by two and a half. So the commanders, yeah, favored by two and a half points. So I think, yeah, I think that's fair. So that means they're giving the commanders three at home. So that means neutral site, the Giants would be favored by a half a point and the overunder is 44. So that's a higher overunder than the, I think, what was it, 41 and a half or something like that in week one that we had for Giants Vikings. Yeah, Michael says, sorry, commanders. I like compadres better than commanders. Let's call them the Washington compadres. Dave Z says, Ben, my dad suit, Macadoo, yeah, that was something. Bish says, Pat, when will this nightmare end with Mara acting like he's lost? Yeah, I don't know, don't know, especially about the, especially about the ownership question. I mean, that's a hard one to answer. Brett says, come back player, the year will be Daniel Jones, everybody but me will hate it. Hey, I'll love that if it happens. Come on. I just don't see it happening, but I would love it if it happens. Um, let's see, Vf says, bless you, Pat. Thank you very much to giant goofballs. What's going on? Sorry, I'm jumping around in the queue because we are running out of time here on talking ball with Pat Leonard live, but I appreciate you guys. I try to get through the entire queue. Doesn't always happen because lately more people have been weighing in and jumping in. So that's why the super chats are so important. If you purchase a super chat or super sticker, it'll elevate to the top of the queue and I will read it or address it immediately. Otherwise, just going through the queue chronologically and sometimes it's tough to get all the way down there. But I appreciate everybody who weighed in. And if for some reason I don't get to your questions or comments in these scenarios, please pop back in the next time we do it. That would be this Thursday during half time of the Thursday night football game and drop it in again. Guys, remember, we are sponsored by a state 98 coffee, all natural specialty coffee with no sugar convenient for on the go 10 seconds to make a delicious estate 98 ice coffee estate 98.com backslash talking ball to get a special buy one, get one free deal also by bed online and by boom chaga mushroom super drink, a natural extract loaded with anti inflammatory immune boosting antioxidants and heart healthy compounds, you can easily pour this natural liquid supplement into any of your favorite drinks I put mine in my coffee every morning and immediately feel the difference. I personally have felt a post workout like energy boost with boom. Chaga also has the ability to lower cholesterol, reduce inflammation and improve immune and heart health with its beta glutes and antioxidants. Go to boomchaga.com today to place your first order and if you use the discount code talking ball 25 or access it through the QR code on your screen, you'll get 25% off your first subscribe and save order go to broom chaga.com today. Right now that means a month's supply cost you only $30. Start filling the difference today at boomchaga.com. Everybody, thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for joining me for another talking ball live with Pat Leonard. If you guys missed it earlier, this will be loaded back onto the YouTube page. You get to watch the entire talking ball with Pat Leonard live episode. We'll also be live next on Thursday. If you missed it, please check out the first down with Benny Fowler podcast we did on Monday recapping the week one NFL action. Really good insight around the league, including the Houston Texans, LA Rams, Dallas Cowboys, Philadelphia Eagles, Giants and on down the line. But thank you so much for weighing in. Giant goofball is a good example. You will be able to go back and watch my answer about Jalen Hyatt boils down to more consistency they're looking for from him, but I got into detail on that about halfway or a little bit more into this two hour and 45 minute talking ball live chat. Thank you so much. My social media for all of my coverage of the Giants throughout the weekend of the NFL and the NY daily news.com New York daily news website. Thank you everybody for tuning in. See you next time on talking ball with Pat Leonard. [MUSIC] [BLANK_AUDIO]