Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard

Talkin' Ball Postgame LIVE: Schoen, Daboll, Jones jobs in jeopardy after Vikings disaster

Duration:: 2h 52m
Broadcast on:: 09 Sep 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

LIVE from MetLife Stadium, New York Daily News NFL columnist Pat Leonard brings you news, information and analysis straight from the Giants' locker room and Brian Daboll's press conference after New York's Week 1 season opening stinker against the Minnesota Vikings @Bleav . Talkin' Ball Postgame LIVE is the No. 1 place for Giants fans to break down their team's wins and losses. Pat answers all fan questions and comments to provide a full picture of the team's roster and outlook heading into the Giants' Week 2 road trip to Washington. Be here at the start of every chat to answer a trivia question and land a FREE bottle of @drinkestate98 coffee. SUBSCRIBE to the @PLonNFL YouTube page to get the latest Giants updates and news delivered directly to you, and to participate in regular LIVE Q&A chats with Pat. Purchase a Super Chat or Super Sticker to have your comments elevated to the top of the feed and have Pat answer your question FIRST! Watch the full video of this podcast on Pat's YouTube Channel. Find Pat also on 'X' (@PLeonardNYDN), Instagram (@PLonNFL) & TikTok (@PLonNFL). Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard is sponsored by @BoomChaga, the BOOM Chaga Mushroom SuperDrink, a natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory, immune-boosting antioxidants and heart-healthy compounds. We are also sponsored by @BetOnlineag_Official and @Estate98Coffee on @Bleav.

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What I love about Shopify is how no matter how big you want to grow, Shopify gives you everything you need to take control and take your business to the next level. Shopify powers 10% of all e-commerce in the US and Shopify's the global force behind all birds, Rothy's, and Brooklynan, and millions of other entrepreneurs of every size across 175 countries. Plus, Shopify's award-winning help is there to support your success every step of the way. Because businesses that grow, grow with Shopify. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com/Westwood1. All lowercase. Go to Shopify.com/Westwood1 now to grow your business. No matter what stage you're in, Shopify.com/Westwood1. All right, everybody. Pat Leonard here from MetLife Stadium, Minnesota Vikings 28, New York Giants 6. Well, Brian Dable and Joe Shane, their mission was to prove that New York's first round pick was a franchise quarterback and they did it. Sam Darnold looks like he's a franchise quarterback after facing the New York Giants. Sam Darnold has his way with the Giants defense. Shane Bowen's defensive shell, the zone defense, not getting it done way too easy for Darnold, for Kevin O'Connell, who coached the pants of Shane Bowen while Brian Dable was flummoxed by what Brian Flores, his head coaching competition in 2022, threw at him. Wasn't always all out pressure, but we're bringing players from different angles, different sides. The Giants do not score an offensive touchdown, do not score a touchdown in the game at all. The count right now after week one is Seguan Barkley three touchdown. New York Giants as a team zero. A nightmare start for Big Blue. John Marrow was pacing pensively outside his suite in between the third and fourth quarter after Daniel Jones pair of interceptions, including the pick six. And after the game, he was walking by me, and John Marrow always a nice enough man to say hello. But in this moment, in the frustration of this post game, understandably, when I approached him and asked him if he had comment, he did not break stride, and he did not even look at me, did not break his gaze or stride, kept going understandable that the Giants co-owner now has a lot to think about. It wasn't just Daniel Jones, even though the crowd booed the fact that Jones was still in the game after his pick six. He came back onto the field for the next drive, and the crowd was booing the fact that Jones came back onto the field with the offense. But it was way more than Jones. Jones was sacked five times, hit 12 more by the Vikings pass rush. The offensive line that is supposedly fixed was not Giants defensively, not doing a good enough job stopping the run. Aaron Jones was a major weapon in this game. I predicted that, I told you that was going to happen, and it definitely came to pass. Also interesting, Dexter Lawrence after the game, taking on the fans a little bit. A lot of the Giants players saying things like, "We understand the fans are booing because we need to put a better product on the field." Dexter Lawrence's quote was, "I don't respect it honestly. I get it. They want to see their team win. It's a rough patch. I mean, it just is what it is." Just a nightmare start, and John Mara already has to be thinking about what to do, not just with his quarterback, but with Joe Shane and Brian Dable. Dable, full-time play caller, a disastrous start. Jones and Dable both asked if the quarterback's job is on the line heading in the week two as the starter with Drew Locke behind him. Dable said it's not in his mind right now. Daniel Jones said he knows he has to play better, and he will work on doing that. But then from a general manager standpoint, even if this is supposed to be a fix into the long term, you can't put an embarrassing, non-competitive product on the field. You can't have your number five overall pick K-Vontibido from a few years ago being largely a non-factor. While Evan Neal, your number seven overall pick in that draft is not even playing in the game. Just one example of what is so embarrassing and unacceptable about the product that's on the field, the coach not delivering, the GM not delivering, the quarterback not delivering. Five dropped passes of Daniel Jones, Theo Johnson, Malik Neighbors, Jalen Hyatt, Devin Singletary, Tyron Tracey Jr. Wasn't just the quarterback, but it wasn't good enough from the quarterback either. We are sponsored here by BoomChaga Mushroom Supertrank, and then we will get right to your questions, the fan Q&A portion. And it's as important as ever that we hear from the fans after a game like this. It's as important as ever. Thank you for being here. All the diehards, all the talking ballers. We're going to try to get you all the information you're looking for, and it's a little bit of a therapy session today, right? Because we're going to talk about a lot of things that didn't go right, and then hopefully I can give you, if not hope, some insight on some things that are encouraging. Brought to you by BoomChaga Mushroom Supertrank, a natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory, immune-boosting antioxidants and heart healthy compounds. You can easily pour this natural liquid supplement into any of your favorite drinks. I put mine in my coffee every morning, and immediately feel the difference. I personally have felt a post-workout like Energy Boost with Boom. Chaga also has the ability to lower cholesterol, reduce inflammation, and improve immune and heart health with its beta-glutenants and antioxidants. Go to boomchaga.com today to place your first order. 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And your comment or question will light up for me. And I will add it right to the top of the queue. You'll go right to the top of the queue of our conversation. And I will get to it immediately or next. If I'm talking about something then. If you don't want to purchase a super chat or super sticker, just please hit the like button while we are live here on the Believe Network and on the PL on NFL YouTube channel. New York Daily News columnist and Giants beat writer here. My ninth NFL season. Very grateful to be here. Grateful that you guys are here. Hopefully can continue to deliver valuable and accurate information, even though my four and 13 season record prediction looks smart at the moment. But I don't want to be right about things like that. Because let's just be honest, it's bad for business when the team is bad. Also brought to you here by a state 98 coffee and all natural specialty coffee with no sugar that is convenient for on-the-go professionals and parents. 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Bet Online, the game starts here and FYI Giants and NFL fans on Monday, early afternoon, come back to the talking ball with Pat Leonard, whether you're listening on Spotify or Apple podcast on audio or the YouTube page, PL on NFL. And Benny Fowler, Super Bowl Champion, former NFL wide receiver and I will be breaking down the entire league, not just the Giants but the top headlines from around the entire league. We're going to be doing that weekly. Really excited for that. All right, we're going to start off with D-Kit who purchases a Super Chat and sets a great example always as a diehard fan who's also supporting the channel. Thank you so much D-Kit. He says, "No, Pat, I do not blame the O line here, not one bit." Daniel Jones was not on time. He was inaccurate and he was generally terrible. Debo and Bowen were awful too. It's done. D-Kit, "I do not think you're wrong that some of the hits and some of the sacks were on Daniel Jones in decision, in decisiveness, his ability or his desire and his attempt at keeping plays alive. I don't think you're wrong about that. I do think however that Jermaine Aluminor at Right Tackle was leaky. Greg Van Rotten got blown by on one-third down where Daniel Jones and Juan Dale Robinson miscommunicated and didn't connect. And as Malik neighbors said, this is a quote from Malik neighbors. He said, so Malik neighbors did not have his first target until late in the first quarter. Didn't have his catch until late in the first quarter. And here was his quote about his day. He said, "Daniel said he was trying to get me the ball. He saw a lot of pressure in his face. So I mean, I can't control that. They tried to get me the ball. Just stuff wasn't working right. So we just got to fix that up." So that's coming from the Giants. Number one wide receiver saying Daniel Jones was trying to get in the ball. Too much pressure in his face. But D-Kit, not going to sit here and tell you that it was just the line. It was Jones as well. But I think it's important to point out that this was a full team loss. Yes, the quarterback played a huge part in it too. Thank you for the super chat to set an example. James checks in and says, "Pat, I saw you with authentic. You are dope, my brother. Please keep it real on Daniel Jones." You got it, James. Thank you. Hey, James, let's just talk about Daniel Jones really quickly. These numbers don't even tell an accurate story. 186 passing yards, 22 of 42 passing, two interceptions, six rushes for 15 yards. The bottom line is this team couldn't make plays. And even when they did, there were penalties, right? They had three penalties in a span of four plays during one drive in the first half. Everything that could go wrong pretty much went wrong here. Jones was a part of that. Daniel said flat out, I have to play better too. But it reminds me a lot of last year, low scoring team, not getting in the end zone. The team not playing well and the line not playing well, but still can't excuse the quarterback because the quarterback played poorly. And let's face it, and I was here live for every play. I met like stadium. It not only was bad for Daniel Jones, James, it got worse as the game went on. I think unquestionably the circumstance and the fan reaction to their ineptitude early on got to Daniel Jones, got to the offensive line. He said flat out, it's our job to give them something to cheer about, and we take that seriously. So Daniel knows it's on him. He knows it's part of the drill. He's been in New York for long enough to understand. But that was bad. That was really bad. It was bad from Jones. And frankly, to me, this is my opinion now. Drew Locke was limited all week with that oblique injury, right, in practice. He wasn't on the injury report. He was active as the backup. Tommy DeVito was only the emergency quarterback. So DeVito is not allowed to play unless both quarterbacks are ineligible. If he's inactive as the third emergency QB, right? So that was the situation. So they had to go to anybody in this game. It would have been Drew Locke. But to me, Drew Locke is a guy who he hasn't been taking the reps in practice. He's been coming back from an injury that Joe Shane said on the broadcast in the preseason that wasn't that bad, but it turns out obviously it is. He's available, but I don't even think he's necessarily capable of doing everything that he needs to as a quarterback right now. So that's the scary thing about this as well. He can throw a ball now, but limited, not taking important reps. Barbara says Dimes was as bad as Hertz. Danny Dimes was worse than Jalen Hertz. No question about it. Here's the thing about the Eagles, right? The Eagles played an imperfect game. Hertz made some key mistakes in that game. If you're an Eagles fan or you're just an NFL fan watching, you're saying, there's something wrong here with Jalen Hertz where he sees the field, some of his decisions. His team scored 34 points, right? So like, you know, Lamar Jackson, I always talk to people about him when he's an MVP candidate, those kinds of things. Lamar Jackson, even when he turns the ball over three times, still scores four touchdowns, five touchdowns, two rushing, three passing, whatever it is. NFL football is not supposed to be perfect. Football is not supposed to be perfect. It's not going to be perfect. The thing about the Giants is they not only make the mistakes, it's snowball on them. It constantly snowballs on them. It gets worse. And then to me, you know, we'll get to this in a second. I was going to make a point about Bryan Dable, but for sure KB checks in and says, "I hope Bryan Dable doesn't get fired for Daniel Jones and Joe Shane's mistakes. If anything, Bryan should stay and Joe and DJ need to be gone." That's an interesting take. I though for sure say that they're all in a pot. I do agree with you on this. This can't be a situation where you just scapegoat one person and other people escape. This is bad enough that everybody is on the chopping block right now for stuff like this. This is bad enough that nobody can skirt accountability. And Bryan Dable did not. He said, "Put it all on me." But it can't just be all on him. I hear what you're saying for sure. But look, he played a part in this too, not only as a play caller. Listen, I look at that play that Van Ginkle makes on the pick six. And I think part of that, you could get angry at Daniel Jones, you could get angry at whatever. And yeah, Jones is his fault too there. Yes, he's at fault, of course. To me, that's recognition from Van Ginkle about what the formation is, what the Giants like to do, what they try to do in certain formations. I guarantee you that was something he was prepared for and Dable playing right into their hands with that play call. Also, to me, one of the worst parts of this game for Bryan Dable was late in the first quarter. They had a second and five and a third and two. And on plays where it looked like could get an easy short completion for a first down, Dable runs Daniel Jones twice, doesn't get it. And then on fourth and three from the 49, his offense needing a jolt, punts the ball back to the Vikings. That is a white flag decision. That is a decision of I don't trust that we're not going to lose more yardage. I don't trust our passing game. I don't trust whether it's your protection, whether it's your quarterback's ability to recognize blitzes and coverages and pressures, whatever it was that he didn't trust there. It looks like all of the above and you lose a game when you make a decision like that. That game was over when he made that decision, over. That game was over when he made that decision. It riles me up. Reminds me of the conversely, it's not just the punning element of it. It's the wrong decision in the wrong moment. Like in the Philadelphia playoff game, right off the bat, they're down seven nothing. And for like, I think it was fourth and eight around midfield. It's like a desperation. Go for it, right? The pressure gets to Daniel Jones. They turn it over on downs. Eagles go right down, Jen, the ball down their throat and score 14. Nothing games over before the first quarters even over in 2022. Drives me crazy. It's bad coaching. Intel says so. New York Giants fans can now stop the Daniel Jones conversation, please. Fire day bowl says D-pat clean house. Candyman says clean house is right D-pat. Jacob says smack that like and sub button for Pat on your way in. Jacob, thank you so much for saying that as always in supporting. Yes, everybody, if you're new here or if you're just a Giants fan disgruntled, you're finding this as a therapeutic place to be. We are talking ball live with Pat Leonard. I'm the NFL columnist and Giants beat writer for the New York Daily News in my ninth season covering this team in league. And we are on the Believe Network here on talking ball live with Pat Leonard. Listening on audio, Apple podcast, Spotify or here on video on YouTube from MetLife Stadium live. I come right out of the Giants locker room and out of Brian Dable's press conference. I give you guys the insight information and answers that you're looking for. I've talked to a lot of the players after the game. Got a lot of insight from these guys. So as you ask questions, I will answer them with my insights. And if I have something to just go off the cup with, I will share it. For example, I thought this was interesting on a day where a lot of things were disappointing, discouraging, frustrating and aggravating. I went up to Graham Godot and I said, "Always Mr. Reliable." Because he was two for two on field goals with a 50 yarder and a 23 yarder. And Graham says to me, "I almost cried after that first field goal, because I didn't know if I would play again." It's nice to be back out there. You love the game. It's special. Graham said this was too serious knee injuries he's had in his career now. So when he had that injury, he had serious doubts about whether he would ever play football again. And he told me that because he had years left on his contract, not only did he not want to stop playing football, he felt like he owed it because he had years left on his contract to fulfill those years, to keep being reliable. And he said, "I want to do it for the fans." And I know it means a lot to the fans. I want to help this team win. I thought that was a great thing for Graham Godot to say. He shared that with me personally. So those are the kind of conversations I have in the locker room that I think are really valuable context, right? Win or lose those types of things. Create a context of what the team is looking like, the personalities in the locker room, and how they are handling things. Wow, look at all these super chats rolling in. DKit says, "We cannot win with this quarterback and this regime." Novice of things checks in with a $5 super chat. Thank you, Novice. And says, "Loss has happened, but non-competitive football cannot be tolerated." Resume generating performance from too many people today. No doubt, no doubt. And listen, even at the end of the game, did you see the way the Vikings were running the ball more easily? Aaron Jones getting downhill. Really, it was one of those things where it looked like the team was kind of their shoulders were slumped. They saw the writing on the wall where it's going. They also see, believe me, what this season could be again. You know, Deontay Bank said a version of, he said, "This isn't last year because it was a different vibe last year. We barely could move the ball. We have better leadership," he said now. Now, but like Bobby O'Karrick, he knows it's not good enough. He said to me, "Obviously, the fans are probably feeling this is just like last year. Not quite the start like last year against Dallas, but this is still not the result you want to make the fans proud of. And you've been working all off season four. We take that to heart. It means a lot to us." He went on to say to me, "We have family and friends in the stands. We want to play hard for them. We want to play hard for the fans. We want to give something to the organization. This means a lot to us, and this is unacceptable." He knows it. They're going to try to turn around and do better against Washington next week. Easier said than done though. I asked Brian Dabel, "What are the reasons to say this is going to turn around?" He said, "Basically, we're going to go back to the drawing board, not going to get into what other people think or say." But he was asked, "Basically, what are you hanging your hat on after this game?" And he said, "Yeah, there's nothing I could mention at the moment." D Kit says, "I flew in for this game. I'm disgusted." Wow, imagine being D Kit right now. Imagine being a fan who flew in for this special weekend. You have the Friday night fan fest with all the legends and the drone show and everything they did to honor the organization to preview what could be a big weekend. Then you have the 5K, just a lot of fanfare. And listen, this is the most frustrating thing, D Kit, is that this is the medium Pepsi stuff. You have the booze during it. It's almost like every time the Giants try to do something special, the ineptitude of their current product over shadows, what they're trying to honor about their past. Now, they don't have a lot to honor about the present. That's part of the problem. That is the problem. But you look at a game like this, the fans are booing the team off the field at halftime as Bill Parcel's Tom Coughlin, Eli Manning, Phil Sims, Lawrence Taylor, and all the legends of the organization are walking onto the field to be honored for the 100th season, the Centennial for the franchise. This is as bad as it gets, as frustrating as it gets for John Marra and for Giants ownership. And this is the stuff that gets people fired. You look at Saquon Barkley with three touchdowns for the Philadelphia Eagles. The Giants as a team don't even have any. And Friday night, John Marra's face with his head in his hand plastered all over social media with people mocking the Giants franchise, mocking them for what they did. Knowing that in Marra's, in fairness to Marra, he did not want to see Saquon Barkley go. He didn't want to let him go. He trusted his general manager. But he said to us before the season, basically, you let them do what they want to do. You trust it. And then maybe you bitch about it later. And that could be what we see. There could be, there could be some noise coming from the ownership box sooner rather than later. Chris checks in with the Super Chat. Thank you so much, Chris. He says hate to say it, but time to start over a quarterback, head coach, and general manager. It's crazy to say this early. But this game, not only, not only did they have to start well for several reasons about Daniel Jones playing for his career, Brian Dable taking over as play caller after a dysfunctional last season. All the reasons why you just wanted to see some improvement. Joe Shane adding Brian Burns, right? Making the decision of neighbors in, Saquon Barkley out, those kind of things. But let's just face it. This is a team right now that it's hard to say, it's hard to look me in the eyes right now and say Pat. Here's why these guys deserve more than this year to get this done. Here's why Joe Shane, Brian Dable, and Daniel Jones have misunderstood. Nobody wants to hear it. Nobody wants to hear it, right? Because after that Saquon Barkley performance, the Giants are in the spotlight as dysfunctional as ever. And not only did, like listen, you can lose a game, like look at the Packers game against the Eagles. The Green Bay Packers lose a game on Sunday to the Philadelphia Eagles. Their quarterback gets hurt. It's not what people want to see, but they score 29 points. Xavier McKinney, the former Giants' safety, has an interception. You see signs of progress or promising things that you can build on, Ray Shongari, you know, some of their wide receivers making plays, Christian Watson, et cetera. The Giants have nothing to hang their hat on after this game. Nothing! Screaming here in the press box, someone's probably going to come in here and tell me to chill out. But this is frustrating. I'm telling you, this is frustrating. It's frustrating for you. It's frustrating for me. Candyman, checking in. $2 Super Chat. Thank you so much, Candyman. Formula Red, what's up, Formula? Thank you so much for the Super Chat. Formula says it's a myriad of reasons, but Daniel Jones is the X-Factor. Until he is off the team, this is what the offense will be. It hurts to watch him play. The fan base is done with Daniel Jones. That was very clear today. The Giants, it would seem, are on the verge of being done with him too. Brian Dable, like I said, said his mind is not there. As I asked him the question of, are you considering venturing him going into week two against the Washington commanders? I'm just telling you guys right now, this team loses to the Washington commanders next week on the road. Rooki quarterback and Jayden Daniels, all bets are off for everybody. All bets are off. D-Kits has looked Pat, I've been watching football for a long time. When the guy behind center plays like that, Pat, it's not NFL caliber quarterback play or coaching. And I think that's one thing I want to make sure it doesn't get lost here. I want to make sure it doesn't get lost. Daniel Jones was bad. Of course he was bad. Brian Dable's offensive play calling and coaching. And Brian Flores's ability to exploit the play calls, the scheme, the offense, Daniel Jones. I mean, it wasn't even a fair fight. Coaching was. It wasn't even a fair fight. And let me just say this too. Wake Martindale gave the Giants a schematic advantage in a lot of games they played, understands how to attack pressures, been in the NFL a long time, had several top defenses in Baltimore. You know, top personnel, top defenses. They forced, I think 31 turnovers last year, tied for tops in the league. The Giants did force two turnovers today. Darius Mosal, rookie linebacker, gets an interception off a Dexter Lawrence quarterback hit on Darnold. And then early on, of course, Drew Phillips with a nice hit dislodging it from CJ Ham, fumble recovered by Bobby O'Karricki. But this defense did not have enough answers. Kevin O'Connell had an easy time, in my opinion, coaching his way around what Shane Bowen threw at him schematically. The soft zones don't do it. The Giants don't have the personnel to play it. They're not good at it. The pass rush, which they've invested a lot in, did not get to Sam Darnold enough. And that was something that became clear to me, talking to some people in the locker room. It was like, yeah, the coverage wasn't working. The pass rush wasn't either. Formula Red says, "How is it that fans could see years ago that he wasn't good? But our own organization, NFL Scouts, couldn't see the same about Daniel Jones. You just need a set of eyes to see that he didn't have it." Also, listen, I like Daniel a lot. I root for him. I hope that he turns it around. But, Dave Gettleman, of course. Dave Gettleman drafted Dexter Lawrence, drafted Andrew Thomas, drafted Saquon Barkley, drafted Daniel Jones. That's at least two of their best players. That's two of their best players on the team right now. That's three of their best players from last season. But Daniel Jones, number six overall pick by Dave Gettleman. If the version of Jones we saw here on the field is the version of Jones that's going to end his legacy in New York. How are we looking at Dave Gettleman's pick there? How are we looking at the giant's loyalty to a player like that? How are we looking at the giant's loyalty to quarterbacks and players when they're not playing well enough? This is unacceptable. Savage Steve says, "First overall pick, here we come. A quarterback can't save this." I got a text from somebody not in the league, but I got a text from a friend who is very attuned to the NFL today said the Panthers are playing number one overall pick chess by giving the Giants Brian Burns. So those are the kind of comments that people are making right now. No flow or rhythm on offense, novice of things says. Novice thank you for checking in with that super chat. Steve thank you. And like I said formula red and everyone who's weighed in de-kit with the super chat so far. Thank you so much. I will still get to all your questions in the queue, but the super chats get answered first. Thank you everybody for supporting the channel. Like I said, buy a bag of boom chaga with the code. That's a great way to support us. The super chats also a great way to support what we do here. All right, let's get to the next question. As I take a sip of this water because I'm parched already losing my voice. Coached a soccer game yesterday and was afraid I was going to lose my voice for talking ball live post game. Got my voice back and now I'm starting to lose it again. Ranting about the disgrace I just saw on the field here. Iconic what's going on. Iconic's always here, a real one. Iconic says what's up pet? Hate to say you were right about this team. Do you think about, do you think because Dable's offense is hard to learn. It contributes to some of Jones holding the ball too long. That's an interesting question Iconic. That brings me back to something we heard before the season where Brandon Brown said a couple times in a press conference in the spring unsolicited how complicated Dable's offense was to learn. That was something I thought was noteworthy coming from the front office. I have had conversations in there where I was, I would say expecting maybe somebody to throw Dable onto the bus a little bit and they didn't. So that was interesting, right? But I do think there's been signs of like greasing the skid for hey maybe this coaches the problem and as far as this and that hasn't happened recently though is what I'm telling you. But I do think not only is that something that could grease the skids for his departure but also I do think it's a reality like we've talked to plenty of players and coaches over these recent years that while they say they believe in the offense it is a difficult and complicated one to learn. But Iconic I think play by play like everything was different. So for example to D kids point there were plays where the protection wasn't bad but Daniel Jones held the ball for too long. Like how about the one where he got rushed eluded a free rusher and then instead of getting rid of the ball throwing it away Shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business. Shopify is there to help you grow. Shopify helps you sell everywhere from their all-in-one e-commerce platform to their in-person POS system. Shopify's got you covered. 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He came by my school for career day and said he was a big row as man then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friends still laughing me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B but with LinkedIn you'll be able to reach people who do. Get a $100 credit on your next ad campaign go to linkedin.com/results to claim your credit that's linkedin.com/results terms and conditions apply linkedin the place to be to be. It's up into another hit right. You know those types of plays where the line's not doing well but the quarterback needs to understand when it's time to get rid of it right. I personally think I know Daniel like I know him as well I think as most people around here do. I think Daniel so desperately wants to make big plays for the team to prove things. I think he was pressing like crazy. I think the booze got to him. I think the environment of the pressure cooker of the environment got to him. And I don't think the play calls were setting him up for any kind of huge success. I told you guys this when we were talking leading up to the season in game and I think you saw it on the field. Iconic the offense in answer to your question. Even though there's so much emphasis in the Giants trying to push the ball down the field and obviously they have neighbors you know Hyatt, Darius Slate and etc. This offense is going to and did in this game look more like the 2022 run based Daniel Jones run offense than you would like it to right. Brian Deeball clearly sticking to that going back to that going to the well right. Like you see those he had the third down in the red zone or you know a couple of plays in the red zone one design run one where Daniel Jones was clearly encouraged to take it and tuck it and run early on when they had the ball in the short field in the 20 and they had to settle for the field goal. The two midfield second and five third and two design runs you know they're trying to get the running game going. I told you this before again I hate being right about this stuff but the offensive line is not good at run blocking. The offensive line is not any good at run blocking. Devin Singletary 10 carries 37 yards. Wow after that it's Daniel Jones six for 15. Juan Dale Robinson had one rush for 14. Eric Gray two for six. Tyrone Tracy two for two. Juan Dale Robinson by the way led the Giants with six catches. Of course 66 yards led them with neighbors. Juan Dale only had 44 but how about this. Juan Dale Robinson 12 targets six catches 44 yards insane. Dave Z says Jones is who we thought he was. A to Zme says wasn't expecting much but holy shit this organization is absolute garbage. Man that's about as direct and fair as you can be. Biggest mistake says Ken in Wisconsin was letting was letting Tyrod Taylor walk. Ain't it the truth. Tyrod Taylor was the best quarterback on this roster last year and now he's on the Jets. Mike A says send them some boom chaga they needed. That's a really good point. I should walk around the locker room on Wednesday and put a little packet of boom chaga on each stool at every player's locker. Who knows nothing else is working. Dave Z says I know it's one game but Brian Burns was an absolute ghost out there today. Yes he was I agree. You know what this is one thing I did not get clarity on that I need to early this week. I did not get clarity on whether Brian Burns' ankle was an issue today. He popped up on the injury report with an ankle injury on Friday after practice. He was still limited and he wasn't he wasn't he didn't have a designation for the game. Injury was but he was listed as limited for Friday's practice. I have to think that must have limited him. I hope that is what limited him in this game because anything else is completely unacceptable. I agree. He was a complete ghost. Let's get to some of the defensive stats here from the Giants. By the way Kvon Timido was the one who committed that really costly face mask penalty on that third down early in the second half and Timido said it was a fair call. He did commit the penalty. They attributed it to Burns at first but it was on Timido. So Brian Burns four tackles no sacks no quarterback hits no tackles for loss. Kvon Timido no sacks one quarterback hit no tackles for loss. That's a number five overall pick and a pass rusher making almost 30 million dollars a year. Holy crap. This is one thing I said and listen I like Brian Burns like he's accountable. He was accountable post game but you know this guy was on arguably the worst team in the league last year or actually not arguably. He was on the worst team in the league last year and you know he could end up being on one of the worst teams in the league again this year just making more money while he's doing it. The NYOG says time for matter to bring in a consultant and join him on the owners box. You know who Bill Belichick. Here's another thing Steve Tisch okay. What is Steve Tisch thinking right now? Steve Tisch is around he's present as president as I've seen him in a long time. That Steve Tisch John Maric conversation after this game tonight. Man I need to be a fly on the wall for that one. By the way you mentioned Bill Belichick. I mean where else do you go right now but a phone call to Bill Belichick for next season right. Dave Z says letting Tyrod walk pales in comparison to giving Jones a $160 million contract. How about giving him a contract like that but giving yourself an out after two years which seems like a smart way to do it if you're still trying to see more but also putting some faith behind him. But then the quarterback understanding and knowing after he gets hurt he rehabs he comes back. Seeing you try to replace him in the draft you don't then you say you believe in him but then the general manager gets caught on a hot mic saying that we're still in the market for a quarterback must be nice to the Chicago Bears who came back and beat the Tennessee Titans today after being down I believe 17 nothing they win 24 17. Caleb Williams and the Chicago Bears you know they uh they got it done there I mean crazy and by the way Caleb Williams only 93 passing yards in this game and yet the Chicago Bears still pull it out 21 yard return of a blocked punt a 43 yard interception return plus three field goals what a comeback by Chicago even though their number one overall pick is still learning still growing pains still a rookie who's not getting it done but there's excitement in Chicago why because Ryan Polls who was hired the same year as Joe Shane was able to fleece the Carolina Panthers on a trade Polls hasn't been perfect in Chicago either but he was able to get that number one overall pick make a pick make a trade make an acquisition to acquire assets and also with Matt Eberflu's establishing a solid defense the GM now taking care of the promise and the hope on the offensive end and you're hopefully off and running Eberflu's still under pressure there still something that's incomplete that's they need to provide fruit and bring it to fruition and get it to a point where it's actually functioning at a high level consistently but the Giants how they're not even close to anything like that they're at a point where Dexter Lawrence their best player arguably is going after the fans after this game saying he doesn't respect the fact that they're booing him this is a train wreck A2Z me says a mantra as a Montreal Canadians fan and a Giants fan today hurt a lot are you saying because they were wearing Montreal Canadians jerseys essentially because that's what it looked like Ken in Wisconsin says where is Pat is he trying out for quarterback oh so you dropped that right before I jumped into the chat I got you yeah so can I was putting together my final touches on my game story and my game column for the New York Daily News you can find that on NYDailyNews.com/sports it's going to be harsh but it's going to be true it's going to be fair and to be honest a lot of it is not just what I'm saying but what I'm hearing and also what people affiliated with the team are telling me on and off the record by the way one thing I want to say before I get to the next question and thank you everybody for the super chats rolling in remember if you want your comment or question answered immediately you need to purchase a super chat or super sticker to elevate it to the top of the chat if you don't I will get to your comment in due time in the queue don't worry but thank you to everyone who is chipping in and trust me I will get to it so the one thing I wanted to mention I see dkit with another super chat in the queue get to that in a second I heard that Brian Dable one of his messages to his players coming off or coming into this game was that one week does not define a season win or lose okay now to me of course you want to keep your team on an even keel and I know that the guys from the patriot mold they love doing that like every week's a new week all that stuff but I can tell you from having conversations about how this went and what that was this has a feel and came off as a feel of preparing for a loss like preparing your team for the potential worst case scenario of losing to minnesota and losing bad like you're planning a seat of doubt in your in your team's mind the building I've been told by several sources is extremely tense it was extremely tense coming into this game people know players know jobs are on the line guys are on the hot seat people are on the chopping block the players know and the players know that it's validated in some respects right this is this has a potential for going crazily off the rails crazily off the rails this is all information I'm bringing you here right now talking about a lot dkit says five dollars super chat thank you so much dkit dkit MVP so far today says I don't want to hear from anyone that neighbors is quarterback proof this team's quarterback makes us winning proof and our gm has put out an awful product I am done daniel jones you know it's so frustrating too he makes that one throw to neighbors over the the uh corners hand um on that third and long in the second half I believe it was and it's again it's he always has like a play here and there where you go yeah there it is and then next play step backward disappears right it's just it's so frustrating Keith Wilson says actually shed a tear today not because we lost but I don't believe the organization is capable of fixing this and Keith that I totally agree and that was what I said to dabel I said what reasons can you give the fans right now that this is going to turn around he doesn't have an answer he just said like we need to improve everything we know we need to but I totally agree with him and why oh jesus come come today with sekwan on friday and dabel and shane should be on notice tonight they are on notice tonight they are you lose next week this season is over michael says things don't usually go that way with a gm getting fired and gm staying though or or a gm fired and coached or sorry you were responding to the comment earlier by fashow who said keep dabel but fire the gm and you're right it doesn't work like that it almost never works like that Elias says hey pat any positives because I see none no weather or injuries to make excuses about just bad quarterback play bad receiver play bad defense and bad play calling I agree with you on all counts Elias you know I think it's it says a lot that dabel was asked about are there any things that stand out to you right now that you can build on that you're excited about that you know show promising sizes like basically nothing I can think of right now no that's what the coach said so Elias to be honest not being unfair when I say that because that's what the that's what the head coach said so there's no there's nothing I can think of at the moment so you know talk about bleak holy cow speaking of injuries carter coughlin pectoral injury that could be a long-term one was elevated from the practice squad key core special teamer that's a concern nick McLeod started at corner knee injury hopefully not too bad but you never know of course a guy who's you know cutting a lot moving laterally you know that's that's a you never want to hear me right in sports you never want to hear the name no Mets no Nets no Jets also a loyal followers says breaking news Giants fan base name lock week two starter like I said let's see if he's healthy enough to play Dave Z says drew lock is not good just as bad as Jones Steven says what can you tell us Pat besides the Giants suck good question Steven by the way to put to Dave Z's point one frustrating thing during the summer was when Daniel Jones did have some off days or practices or whatever drew lock wasn't grabbing it and taking it that's what I was looking for as among many other things covering the team in the summer was will drew lock grab this and run with it and make this a competition and a challenge and he didn't but then of course day ball and the Giants got him hurt in the first preseason game and so now that's a factor as well all right so Steven like Elias says what can you tell me that's positive okay one positive thing Tyler new but talk to him after the game started at safety he's losing confidence right now feels great I mean they were putting him back as the single high safety at times I asked him about how much trust that shows in him he almost looked at me like what do you mean like he expects to be there like that's what he wants expects it's not too big for him he said like I can play at this level I validated that today get a play where he picked up uh tied Chandler the Vikings running back head to head on a hit in the second half and I looked at him I said that was a nice hit there lifting that guy off the turf and he looked at me he said I told you because we were talking about how physical he is how that gets him going and so like you know I'm excited about that uh Darius Mosel the rookie linebacker listen I think you'd rather him be a backup than a starter of course but um you know better than expected for sure six tackles a tackle for a loss an interception and a past defended for sure uh let's see Drew Phillips obviously the rookie forcing a fumble Dexter Lawrence we talked about him making plays Bobby O'Karrickay only three tackles interestingly enough had a fumble recovery but I think a lot of zone for the Giants and um really the Vikings out scheming Shane Bowen with Kevin O'Connell's play calling what else what else positive stood out Jason Pinock made a really nice play backtracking to break up a deep ball for Justin Jefferson at one point there um let's see other positives that stand out that we can build on as the Giants here of course they almost started fast right after the offense fell on their face right away the defense forces that turnover and they give the Giants offense the ball up to 20 yard line but then the offense short circuits right they can't get in the end zone they kick a field goal and it kind of shoots themselves in the foot really disappointing there but you know if you want to look at the silver lining there they made some plays on defense there to set them up for a better start the offense just didn't capitalize um other than that you know I think Andrew Thomas left tackle you know I don't think you saw a lot coming from his side from his way I think Andrew held up all game um I don't remember ever saying oh a pressure came from Andrew's side like I would imagine that on a day where Daniel Jones got sacked five times um and hit 12 more you're gonna see an absurdly high grade no matter even despite that from Andrew Thomas on pro football focus also Jamie Gillin I mentioned Graham gonna know earlier Jamie Gillin I thought had a really good day as a punter put four inside the 20 and including one that he downed at the one yard line that was a really good play by the coverage team as well with Ty Summers Dane Beltan and Nick McLeod factoring in to pin the Vikings at the one yard line there also Bryce Ford Wheaton as a gunner drew a holding penalty on punt coverage so those are some positives to give you Stephen um a lot of not not uh not anything you're gonna hand your hat on too much but uh you asked and that's my answer there Danny does is hey Pat next time you see Marr can you ask him if he's still glad he gave Daniel Jones that contract we all know he's the main reason Daniel Jones was drafted and resigned Joe Shane was a part of it too though um no Met says David doesn't matter he can't be worse Joey B says I've never in my life left the game because it was that bad and it's been worse but this just was deflating so bad Joey I know it hurts you to say that too Danny Doug says Dave Brown played in a running era it is stats are on par with Daniel Jones Daniel was worse Ken says no way Locke is worse than this Joey says no one showed up we're at urgency play calling was terrible my kids modified games look better than that also on our hundredth season opener heads are gonna roll no doubt they are no Met says Daniel Jones doesn't belong in the NFL cave on you're not good says no Met's and says Burns you went missing but Dex played really well all right let's get to two more super chats that just popped in thank you guys so much for supporting the channel really appreciate that uh the super chats get your comment or question answered immediately and rise to the top of the queue if you don't i'll get to your comment or question but I appreciate the support Bobby Silver thank you so much Bobby for the support he says no balance on offense the run game was iffy at best should have ponied up the extra guaranteed money for Saquan and use the tag as leverage on the Jones deal years ago Bobby great point I know it's only one week listen things can change obviously about this dynamic the Saquan decision and all that but it's hard to watch these first two games and not feel like the Giants royally screwed themselves here with how they played it out and knowing that John Mara did not want it to go this way knowing that John Mara did not want to see Saquan his the face of his franchise gone to another team knowing that he didn't want to see him gone to a division rival knowing that Joe Shane said he thought the Eagles were out of it at one point and yet he was not out of it they were not out of it how he roseman was not out of it in fact he was the biggest bidder wow just wow am I right I mean just completely unacceptable JC NYC thank you JC says Pat wink would have eaten darndled for lunch prefer his defense after the game and watching darndled pick us apart daniel Jones was under a lot of pressure great point there JC you could point if the Giants with brought with wink martin dale as defensive coordinator played a quarterback like Sam darndled he would give them a schematic leg up and an advantage a built-in schematic coaching advantage and they did not have one on either side of the ball today you saw today what happens when brian dable does not have a defensive coordinator giving him a schematic advantage on the other side of the ball totally unacceptable all right let's see onto the next question thank you JC so much for that dave z says what uh who are your top three disappointments but today pat my list is burns Jones dable I expect Jones to shit the bed but burns was not existent except for one pressure the pick six play was ghastly yeah I think it goes I think it's Joe I think it's dable bowin and jones that's what I think dable bowin and jones in any order you want those three but you know I throw burdens under the the bow and umbrella Steven says you would think after dave bratt when gennelman came to mars instead i'm thinking of drafting this quarterback oh came to mara sorry when gennelman came to mara and said i'm thinking of drafting this qb mara would say no we are not he reminded them of eli manning but more mobile michael says well pat same krat different year the offense is still predictable yes it is still predictable Tim houston says this will probably be the most active live for talking ball can't wait pat is overwhelmed going to be overwhelmed with our input questions and insight should be entertaining and Tim it looks like it has been so far we're 50 minutes in and I feel like we started five minutes ago because of how lively this is another super chat in the queue let me check down here and see who it's from it's from novice of things again novice thank you so much for your support here today really appreciate you he says drove in from maryland for the fan fest fest on friday got me psyched seemed like the stadium vibe today was the same as at home disbelief what was your take it was disbelief novice and it was also let's put it this way this was not your typical week one this was you know week one is usually even for people who are worried or concerned or feel like we need to make progress even if you lose in one game you know usually you're thinking to yourself as even a fan who's pessimistic it's only one week it's only one game like i talked to the tight end chris manhertz who was obviously knew it wasn't good good enough but he said listen i'm not going to overreact to one game it's one game like we got a bounce back next week right so that's how a veteran takes it that's what he'll be saying to his teammates that's hopefully a message that gets through to some of the younger guys in the locker room but the fans novice in the stadium the the atmosphere here was one of here we go again almost like it was picking right up where they left off from last season picking right up where they left off on how pathetic how dysfunctional how bad is our decision making as an organization hard knocks kind of bridge the gap between last season and this season of everybody being really plugged in to the internal dynamic of how it works and why they're doing what they're doing right and novice i'm telling you when daniel that so the fans got restless when devan singletary caught a pass for negative six yards on the first drive and then there was a delay uh too many men no a delay of game penalty the giant's punt by the time daniel jones throws that first that picked six fans were well no first they had the they had a drive where they had three penalties in four plays they had too many men on the field 12 men in the huddle then they had a germane aluminor false false start at right tackle bad game for him then they had a wandale robinson hold right the fans were getting restless you could hear the booze when daniel jones threw that pick six not only big booze people leaving the game at that point i was texting with a a season ticket holder who said then that they he and the people that he was with they waited it out but then when daniel jones threw that pick six tyros and smith in the end zone that's when he left that's when they left and honestly these are people like joey b said who can never see themselves leaving games early they don't leave games early even when it's bad they don't leave games early they left today early because it was here we go again after the second interception the stadium essentially emptied in the second half they were doing school chance school the vikings fans it was embarrassing it was disgusting this was let's celebrate our hundred years like i said at halftime the booze were so loud and the giants as the team is getting booed off the field the giants organization is walking out onto the field with a hundred seasons batter and bill bill parsel's tom coughlin justin tuck eli matting laurin's tailor phil sims a mani tumor you name it harry carson leonard marshall all out on the field being honored as the fans are booing the players on the current team because it's not good enough the fans did have something to cheer about as those legends were announced and honored properly at halftime the giants did a good job with that ceremony but then it was right back to the misery it was the cave on tibido penalty it was cordale flots eyes in the wrong place getting roasted on a touchdown to jail and nailer it was brian dable's offense being inept it was his quarterback making bad decisions and it went right back to the booze and to people getting in their cars early because no one wanted to watch any more of this and it was very clear novice thank you again for supporting us with that super chat it was very clear that the fans above all were tired of seeing daniel jones they do not want to see him at quarterback the fans just don't this is and i'm not i'm not talking about me right now the fans don't want to see daniel jones at quarterback from what i could see at the stadium today the season ticket holders the psl payers they don't want to see daniel jones at quarterback guys want to tell you remind you again and we'll get right to your questions again remember super chats get your comment or question answered immediately um also thank you for everyone who's already supported us here also if um you want to support our channel in other ways you can support us by buying a bag here right here boom chaga the code is talk about 25 there's the qr code talking about pat Leonard is brought to you by the boom chaga mushroom super drink a natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory immune boosting antioxidants and heart healthy compounds you can easily pour this natural liquid supplement into any of your favorite drinks water coffee whatever i put mine in my coffee every morning and immediately feel the difference i personally feel a post workout like energy boost with boom chaga also has the ability to lower cholesterol reduce inflammation and improve immune and heart health with its beta glutes and antioxidants go to boom chaga.com today to place your first order that is boom chaga.com and place your first order use the discount code talking ball 25 or access it through the qr code right here on your screen and you'll get 25% off your first subscribe and save order right now that means a month supply cost you only 30 dollars start filling the difference today at boom chaga.com so that's boom chaga.com subscribe and save option not the single purchase option subscribe and save use talking ball 25 buy a bag and then you can just cancel the subscription it won't wrap you in it won't force you to be committed but that's just a way to get a huge discount on a bag of boom chaga which i really do think you guys will love and i also think as somebody suggested earlier maybe it's smart for me to get the Giants players in on it because we need a boost in that Giants locker room also brought brought to you by a state 98 coffee go to a state 98.com backslash talking ball to get a special buy one get one free deal i'm posting both links down here in the chat so you guys can see it in the chat and you can access those there if you wish all right on to more questions you're on talking ball live with pat letter i'm the nfl comments and giants be writer for the new york daily news here on the believe network we do post game lives every Giants game from the press box i'm sitting in met life stadium staring at this at the empty turf looking at the field that i just watched the Giants lay an huge egg on against the minnesota Vikings setting a bad bad tone for the 2024 NFL season all right let's see Elias says this cannot be brian dern's production all year with what we are paying him no doubt no met says kafka look better calling plays yes early but come on he did i agree ken wants to know if kafka can still play quarterback not a bad question how about ela can ela still play dave z says everyone in the stadium and watching at home knew where the ball was going on that pick six yes and that's not just the quarterback to me that was the scheme that was the defense that was van ginkle being prepared for that michael says yeah it's obvious now steven i was so hoping justin herbert would leave argan and just and giants had that chance to get him but he stayed for senior year they loved him michael i wrote a column at the time the year after they drafted daniel jones they should just draft justin herbert anyway if they had a conviction on him obviously easier said than done you're putting your neck on on your line when you do on the line when you do that but you know there is precedent i mean the cardinals eventually did the josh ros and kyla mary thing you can do it obviously did not though d kit says dumpster fire jeff says big pat talk us through it brother patrick says pathetic performance dave z says i bet dave gettleman is in full bloom love with jones what a joke iconic says do you think that's because mary knows it's his fault that jones is here um you know i think john's a part of it obviously he's a part of the reason why the franchise has been in such dysfunction for so long here but he has been trying at least recently the best of my from what i can tell john mara and ownership has really been sensitive to the notion and the reality that ownership was and has meddled and is meddling in the operations of this team so you know look at sekwan barkley yes you could see that why like you know maybe a general manager feels let's say pressure to do something they don't want to do even if john mara doesn't overtly say you're not doing that right but what did we see at hard knocks john mara ultimately let it happen the player he didn't want to see leave the face of the franchise he didn't want to lose he let his general manager let him walk out the door and he walked out the door right to their rivals let me tell you this i've said this before i'll say it again joe shane will not keep his job and sekwan barkley can use to flourish and the giants shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business shopify is there to help you grow shopify helps you sell everywhere from their all-in-one 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You need to look like this no met says there better be a quarterback change Corey says imagine getting your ass handed to you by Sam effing Donald embarrassing no met says o-line didn't seem that bad i disagree no met um i think that it was leaky on the right side i think that there were plays to be made at times by daniel jones for sure and like we said earlier not all on the o-line but i don't think it was good enough at all and i do think the leaks mostly seem to come from the right side though there was like a stunt for example that got john runyon jr where ganiel jones got blasted there too. A2z me says it's still hard uh still find it hard to believe that joe shannon brine dable wanted daniel jones back. iconic says jones was holding the ball too long intel says daniel jones is trash no met says dex is a little delusional with that comment saying that he doesn't respect the fans booing i totally agree. notorious says dj can't read the field you're not wrong notorious i've said this before i'll tell you guys again there are more quarterbacks in the nfl don't see the field as well as you think they can't like really i mean you know jailin hurts look at the sum of the decisions he's making doesn't see it as well as you would think that press got even a guy whose numbers are really big the last few years he was productive is in the NBA he was the runner up to the mvp award last year and there's a guy who doesn't see the field as well as you would think but i agree with on the daniel jones thing i think for him it has to like if his first read or the play design is drawn up well and it's there then it's going to happen if it's not there and he starts hesitating moving rethinking watching and moving and trying to improvise it starts to get dangerous and that's where big mistakes happen then again you know the pick six was what throwing the ball behind a line of scrimmage which apparently um you know apparently is one of brine dable's favorite pastimes i mean they threw the ball behind the on the scrimmage and absurd amount today of course like i said 2022 offense no met says theo johnson looks like a bad pick yes it's early but still uh yeah you need better from theo for sure rookie but you need better intel says pat remember what i said therapy session no doubt looks like we got another super chat in the queue i'll get down to this one and then i'll come back into the queue thank you everybody really appreciate all the support here all right it's bigsy checking in with five bucks bigsy thank you so much for the support really appreciate the super chat and guys remember if you don't want to purchase a super chat or a super sticker please hit the like button while we are here that thumbs up that like button you press while we are live especially does a lot to tell Giants fans out there or NFL fans even who don't know that we're live that this community is here that it's growing we're over 3000 subscribers now and continuing to move upwards and onwards here at talking ball with pat Leonard pl on youtube on the believe network on audio where apple spotify and with the new york daily news of course you can get news and updates and information breaking news from me on youtube shorts we have player interviews coach interviews you can watch full interviews on the page on the channel also podcast with special guests we've had barry sanders on adam shefter bobby ocaricade darius slaton stirling shepherd um let's see who's been on recently south palantone oh uh gary meyers ea no conner michael lombardi uh trev or sycamore on the nfl draft um you know you name it like you know we're gonna we're iron super bowl radio row media row this year in new warlands it's coming we're gonna be there whether the Giants are there or not and um looking forward to continue to grow this and give you top information and insight that you're looking for on the Giants and on the league again year nine covering the nfl all right let's see thank you again for that super chat bigsy okay eight tone says how long of a leash until daniel jones gets benched eight tone that's a really good question uh something that i'm working on working the phones on now is trying to figure out exactly how patient will they be because the fan base is done with it right um we saw that in the stadium that was a great question about what the stadium was like too that helpful to help me paint the picture of it i wonder like if drew lock he has that oblique injury if he are they gonna wait until he's fully healthy will he be healthy enough in week two to go to him you know to me like i thought there was even merit in this game just to take daniel out give him a breather you know show the fan something else i think maybe if he didn't if dabel didn't do it the reason might be that lock physically is still not there right and he wasn't getting the reps like that's the thing in practice he wasn't getting the reps i think if we find out what the reps look like in practice this week it'll go a long way to tell us uh where it's going so a tone my answer to that actually would first be i think brian dabel's plan on the reps and practice needs to change first right like and then that's how we'll know something could be coming dav's he says hit that like button and grab some estate 98 or boom chaga tried the estate 98 and it was pretty damn good love it for iced coffee dave thanks for saying that yes so dave won our uh our stat giveaway where we ask a tribute question and then uh the winner wins a free bottle of the state 98 coffee we haven't done it yet today uh but it is coming so stay tuned whoever gets the question correct first will win a bottle of estate 98 coffee so i'll get a question going for you guys shortly and um so you know when i when i ask you the question you guys will just punch it into the comment section when you have the answer and the second it comes up the second you see it the second you hear that question the first person in the queue who has the correct answer will win a free bottle of estate 98 coffee you have to queue up a good one for you guys though because there's a lot tossed around and also i've dished a lot of information on this game already so i need to get to the bottom of it all right um let's see mara needs to make me the gm because i will bench daniel jones asap says intel looks like we got another super chat coming in here bigsy what's up thank you so much bigsy bigsy says pat we looked awful today any bright spots i think neighbors had a decent game in decks thanks again as always you got it bigsy uh we talked a little bit earlier about some bright spots bigsy bigsy we talked about tyler nooben showing some things really some of the rookies right true phillips force fumbled darius moussau interception and not looking like completely overwhelmed by you know playing in an nfl game even though he's a late round pick um let's see what else do we mention jamie gillen the punter had a good game graham good no had a good game um all right here's the question the trivia question for today is we'll round out we'll round the number to the to an exact number okay there there'll be a decimal point in it but we'll round it to the nearest whole number okay what was sam darnell's completion percentage against shane boughins defense in this game that's your trivia question put the answer in the comment question now first answer gets a free bottle of a state 98 coffee what was sam darnell's completion percentage in this game you have to guess the ant the the whole number no so the whole number so a whole number would be like 51 59 63 you have to get the whole number looks like somebody is in it's looks like it's is that michael looks like michael answered it correctly first have to double check here hold on all right so we had so the correct answer is 79 percent michael lanos with the correct answer michael 79 percent 79.2 to be exact 19 of 24 for 208 yards and two touchdowns at an interception for sam darnell 113.2 quarterback rating and wow 79 percent 79.2 michael here's how we're going to do this i'm same handle on instagram pl on nfl okay send me a dm on instagram my dms are open there send me a dm on instagram pl on nfl send me your address or a p o box or wherever and i will have a state 98 mail you a free bottle of this delicious coffee that helps make a ice coffee in 10 seconds that day these days he said is really good makes a really good hot coffee but iced honestly is what it's best for to be honest it's so good it's even really good for mixers like if you're an espresso martini person this is kind of like your coffee for the espresso martini like just so many uses if you just use a virgin coffee it's about a half a month's worth of coffee but michael way to go there i love how some people guessed like into the 90s too with that michael great job nice work 79 holy cow yeah you're gonna try it you will love it but yeah bigsy thanks for that um thanks for that question about the bright spots i think you know the bright spot the other bright spot i said bigsy was i think that the fact that the defense after the after the offense started so poorly the fact that the defense still just came out you know they didn't say here we go again they came out forced to turn over and gave the offense a short field of course then the offense only scores a field goal and then the defense on its heels again doesn't get it done as well but like a bright spot would be hey despite the offense looking like crap right off of that the defense kind of still initially was ready to play right all right um steve johnson says i think it's the step on gillmore curse last year 40 to nothing is with the cowboys this year's opener 28 six with the Vikings really good player really good player by the way two players who did not get used hardly at all in this game jail and hide it a wide receiver and isiah simmons on defense guys who are healthy and available and for the most part did not play joey b said how many more losses do you think before the firing start happening if you lose next week and it's embarrassing joey it could be happening as soon as week two in my opinion v jack this is early on even right when we went live he said there are 97 viewers that should equal not having likes for big pat some love v jack thanks for saying that and now we are at we've been at 300 325 we're at 285 right now we are sizzling here on talking ball with pat Leonard live here post game from at life stadium thank you guys you are what makes this show you're what drives this show what drives this podcast and this content i really appreciate it if you're new to what we do here i do talking ball live on monday's and thursday's so monday's is nine p.m. thursday's we start at half time of the thursday night game and then i watch the second half with you while we talk giants and then every giants game i do a post game live from the stadium in the press box home and away so i'll do it in washington on the road from their press box and then i'll be in cleveland on the road in the press box then i'll be home for the dallas cowboys game on a thursday night in the press box and on and on we go so it's monday's at nine p.m. thursday's at half time of thursday night football whoever's playing and then post game live for every giants game here on the youtube channel pl and nfl subscribe if you're not subscribed please hit the like button while we are live i can't tell you how much that does for just showing youtube and showing giants fans out there hey this is here for you that works on the algorithm it just does so thank you so much thanks for everybody who is like vjack who is saying that they love the content we're producing here and thanks for helping us create this content thanks for helping me uh because honestly i've said this to you guys before i probably haven't said in a little while i love doing this i love talking to you guys on here i like writing i like reporting i like forming relationships um i like everything i do i love everything i do about this job i'm grateful to the daily news to the believe network to everybody who believes in me and supports me and has along the way but man i love doing these talking ball live chats and i love interacting with you guys this community and it's not you know we don't always agree on what we're talking about we have plenty of disagreements sometimes people weigh in with things that they don't feel is accurate like for example early on talking to deacon some people about how much blame on the line how much blame on daniel jones right things like that and kind of debating that and batting it back and forth it's so constructive our conversation i think a lot of the people who come in here are diard fans they're people who see the game like a lot of you guys see the game so well like the observations that i see even just in today's and tonight's super uh chats and in our comments and our conversation like i say this all the time as well but i think it's really true i'm here to teach you guys and show you what you can learn from me because i'm plugged into the organization but i'm learning just as much from you i'm learning just as much from you on finger of the pulse of the fans you guys often end up pointing things out that maybe i didn't see or clarify something that i thought i saw or it reinforces something that i did see or that i did know or it strengthens my belief in something that i had to hunch about or whatever it is but you guys really provide such an important and valuable perspective and i love being face-to-face too i love it and we'll keep doing the creator series like the one i did with authentic we'll have another creator on hopefully soon probably not this coming week but maybe after week two going into week three as early as that probably try to get another one going uh let's see intel says dable it's dable is going to get fired if he keeps daniel jones out there and it might not matter because honestly no quarterback was better than daniel jones evan says if this is what the season is going to look like shane and dable can say they're booker buys now that's right matthew says looks like flores wanted a little payback after the bell check text fiasco knowing the giants had hired dable before the giants interviewed him by the way matthew thanks for bringing that up guys when you have a chance go back and read my story for saturday's daily news about brian flores and the giants because i made some phone calls and did some reporting on where that all stands that case is still in court it's still in the court of appeals if everything gets upheld in the court of appeals brian flores is still going to court and taking on the nfl the giants the texans that's all there so brian flores was coaching in this game with all of that fresh in mind top of mind that um that kind of acts to grind what he's trying to prove as a coach what he's trying to do to change the way that the hiring processes allegedly went incorrectly and unfairly in in what he was involved in so that's a big part of it and that's still ongoing so i think you get a lot out of reading my coverage in the daily news on where that all stands a two z me says shane looked even worse than jones in my opinion dude is making the team worse if that's even possible yeah listen it's hard to look at all these primary premier like investments at draft picks and say like look at it i mean not enough guys are are turning into good players i mean it's as obvious as i can say it that doesn't you know that doesn't make me an expert to say that you know you're saying a day two z me you're right big blue step forever says hey pat thanks for this you got it thank you so much step for being here really appreciate it i'm a fan says year six and daniel jones still looks lost no improvements still throwing picks they have to draft a quarterback candy man says so disgusting i've been a fan since 1966 terrible run till 1981 this might be worse who comments like that are what get to john mare and to steve fish by the way john mare and steve tish what they respond most to is the fan outrage so it's the booze it's people leaving the stadium and it's saying comments like that candy man to me on here to get read out loud or to write emails to the giant to john mare and steve tish and to write stuff like that to them that's what gets to them the most that's what resonates to them the most wellington mare john's late father was very attuned to the fans believed strongly that the fans would tell you when things were not right and this this this lack of patience from the fan base in week one is really something else to see and i think it reinforces listen how about the context of the fact that dable's mismanagement of his staff and sideline last year led to an exodus of his coaching staff and now on the heels of that he scores six points as a as a play caller and his teams in total dysfunction the first game back with his new staff holy cow let's see um oh i skipped some there joey b says i would trade for james winston right now interesting yeah listen the signing of dory jackson was a desperate move so could be desperate quarterback move on deck is ryan tannell on deck right mr danky says daniel jones can't start next week mr danky i think you're one of many people who think who feel that way no metz wants to know what gm and coach would be willing to come here well people who want jobs and want to make let's say five years twenty five million dollars and get paid that no matter whether you get fired after two years or not right uh people like that but i think you're saying what gm and coach of substance right that's why bill bellichech has to be you got to open the chep book and see if he'll do it justin says pat once again the team and coaching staff was unprepared to play week one a 12 man and delay of game penalty in the first quarter alone and what point is the coaching staff held accountable i mean listen there were people heading for the hills after last year right one of people wanted to bait about what happened this net coaches were heading for the hills my calf go wanted to leave he just wasn't able to leave they prevented him from leaving everybody was out the door it was a disaster it was toxic it was dysfunctional everybody knows like i said very uptight going into this game the whole organization and you saw it on the field candy man says keep up the honest reporting yeah and listen like i said and i know some people don't believe this i do not enjoy being right when i tell you hey this team's gonna win four games and the season might be over before it starts if you look at my preview for this game talking about i've in pace saying the giants can be no problem joe shane kind of throwing shaded daniel jones on a hot mic saquon barkley scoring three touchdowns john maris face being planted all over social media must win for the giants a week one i'm not saying that because i'm trying to put pressure on that's not there i'm saying that because i know the pressure is there and i know that that's the reality so listen i've said this before i'll say it again it's bad for business when a team is not winning especially year after year after year it's thanks it's thanks but that's where we're at all right let's keep going here uh mr danky says every pass straight to the dirt yeah a lot of under throws man bouncing passes five five drop passes though five drop balls ashley says dable play selection was terrible worse than kafkin that says a lot no imagination whatsoever jimin will be lucky to win four games this year yes they will i think you know it's interesting actually a lot of people i think today have said what you just said about dable they think the play calling was horrendous matthew says did kevin tippito get benched so a lot of ojallari in the second half you know matthew i have to go back and look at that because he was off the field at times in the second half kevin was he did play less i asked him about it he said yeah well you know at that point the game was kind of out of hand so you know not necessary to keep up the same um in his mind you know rotation although that's you know that can't be the reason that he wasn't in the game right you're still trying to play well and he's your number five overall pick and i'm just like pulling him off the field right um as he's ojallari did play more in the second half i'm very interested matthew to get to the bottom of that because i did ask kevin i was like how much did you play in the second i was trying to gauge it exactly because there were a lot of plays i saw him off the field and he he was off the field at times but he said that he was he didn't come off permanently uh so to be honest i i have to be honest guys those uniforms obviously are heinous but also like there were times where my normal like oh yeah i'm tracking who's on the field there were times where my eyes were working against me because it was hard to see the numbers on their uniform like it was hard for me to to pinpoint sometimes you know who was who well at a split second at times at certain positions notorious says all of daniel jones throws were offline or short i think he's done a2zmi says if dable starts jones next week he's letting the team in the fan base know he doesn't really care kevin being cocky postgame after having done nothing all games says mr danky terrible performance by the team today says it happened they were all bad yep i wonder what positives carl banks saw this week hmm says a2zmi yeah tough to tough to uh put lipstick on a pig as they said barbs says the team was not prepared looked like pre-season game one that's on coaching so two straight seasons now that the team has been unprepared for their first game of the season simian thinks that barring injury jones is going to play next week barbs says the browns booing to shawn at least we don't have that contract ha ha good perspective there bar betch says man this was a team effort no doubt no doubt all the way down betch simian says when one day i went into motion behind the receivers who didn't know what was coming on the pick six exactly simian easy to diagnose easy play to read betch says dable running obvious plays double tight to one side two routes to the other strider says hey pat hey strider good to see you man says hey pat i can say this was a terrible first game for the giant daniel jones was terrible questionable play calling uh defense was not good despite a sack a fumble recovery and a pick i guarantee you dable makes no changes next week jones starts etc says the ador omega says was dextor holding back when asked about how he felt about the fans were booing i mean he didn't hold back i mean he said i don't respect it so that's not holding back um so maybe he had more to say omega i think once he said that i think he realized i'm not going to continue on this but he definitely let know what he felt about it and like i said for him i don't know necessarily if he's saying he he doesn't understand fans booing i think what he's probably responding to is how hard they're booing so early you know which really does say a lot for sure but like let's be honest everybody can understand why right everybody can understand all right um but i don't i don't think they uh dextor did the right thing going there daniel jones is a more is a serious problem says collusion but even more so dable keeping him after the first half was criminal jones was lost out there and i had no business being on the field nothing positive after this one yeah you know what collusion i really agree that you know it would have i think been the right thing to go to jew lock at some point in this game as you saw it devolving as you saw have a fan base was responding to jones as you saw how he was responding to the booze um but like i said i think drew lock being limited all week with his oblique even though he wasn't on the injury report i think that had to have played a factor here that says pat you need to tell dable and jones straight off this could be your last chance in the position that you're at him um hey i i tell it like it is betch if anything else i tell it like it is for sure with you strider says dextor he thinks did hold back sometimes you got to think what you're about to say well he said i don't respect it so that's not holding back i mean he said what was on his mind there but yeah he didn't he didn't go anywhere after that kylo says 2023 week one versus 2024 week one which one is worse also did we see the last of jones with that injury clause good work pat driving trucks is more fun with talking ball kylo thanks for checking in and listening as you're on the road i'm glad i'm giving you some some giant therapy some nfl information and i'm really appreciative that you're checking in and participating and supporting the channel by asking this question um thank you so much for doing that where where are you driving right now uh you cross country are you on the east coast uh that's that's really interesting and i'm glad it's cool to hear how different people are enjoying it i know joey b and gave and now you like a lot of people have said too like if they're traveling far and wide for the giant's games this can be like a good uh kind of unwind from the giant's action that you saw in person add the game a good uh good uh kind of summary a way to understand what was happening in the locker room what was coming out of that what the guys were saying so to answer your question about which one was worse and whether we saw the last of jones kylo let me go to the second one first the jones question um i don't know if we saw the last of jones though i do think if they're not thinking about like gabe said hey we got a trade for james winston or you know i we all know ryan tannell stop start still out there if they're not looking at a way to bring a new quarterback onto this roster then they are come you know then i mean they are completely lost but you know i wouldn't be surprised because they are completely lost but i would say they have to at least be looking for his for for somebody to bring in here to instill some kind of hope in what they're doing here um but have we seen the last of them maybe not i mean i asked able that he said it's not in his mind to bench him for next week at the moment so that's what the coach said and which one was worse so you know joshan at least found a way last year to say like oh we had all these injuries in week one right last year was like completely unprepared to play as a team right and plus daniel jones was bad the old line was bad non-functional i thought this was just as bad in a different way though because i thought what i saw today was the defense doesn't have a lot of answers okay i saw and that's a new coordinator with a new system and we know a less experienced coordinator less accomplished coordinator i also thought given they had a full off-season to repair things and this is what it looks like how bad it was i mean listen they had six points three because they got a short field starting at the 20 so last year was 40 to nothing today was you know could have easily been 28 to 3 right instead of 28 to 6 they didn't score a touchdown so to me kylar i think especially because it's one year later and listen last year dabel didn't lose the locker room this year the players have a look in their eyes of like this like this i'm telling you like diante banks today talking to him after the game you're looking like this does that make sense and if you can't see me you can watch this later we're at the hour 28 mark if you want to see my face but it's like that glassy look in the distance here we go again questions knowing there's a lot of things they can't say but saying some things because they're you know they're a little bit uh disgusted and tired of not saying anything telling you this this would come apart apart quick like this is coming part of the scenes if they don't stop it collusion says what is going on with this organization no matter what they do nothing is ever right over a decade of just some of the worst football in the nfl disgusting right now in my mind they have poor leadership that's what i think their problem is right now and they're not drafting well simian says they had no fight left that's what i saw late in the second half it looked like simian says i don't want to say they gave up but yep i'm with you dene says how bad are we dabel is going to be sacked this year yes he is uh striders as pat if daniel jones continues to struggle dabel must take him out and try lock yes lock isn't that great if daniel's feelings get hurt then too bad take him out and try something else no met says not quite the start is last year this was actually worse strider points out to pat kavon no no tackles no sacks uh i think he had what did what did i say he had kavon had yeah no tackles no sacks one quarter back hit wow he did something like this person eagles last year in filley kavon has a history even when he has made plays in years he has a history of disappearing in games so far early in his career dave z says just made the state 98 ice coffee to wash away the misery of today thanks again pat got to add some jameson though dave great to hear and why three three one five says dj should already be benched what a joke this gm and coach are shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business shopify is there to help you grow shopify helps you sell everywhere from their all-in-one e-commerce platform to their in-person pos system shopify's got you covered shopify helps you turn browsers into buyers with the internet's best converting checkout 36 percent better on average compared to other leading commerce platforms and sell more with less effort thanks to shopify magic your ai powered all-star what i love about shopify is how no matter how big you want to grow shopify gives you everything you need to take control and take your business to the next level shopify powers 10 percent of all e-commerce in the u.s. and shopify's the global force behind all birds rothies and brook linen and millions of other entrepreneurs of every size across 175 countries plus shopify's award-winning help is there to support your success every step of the way because businesses that grow grow with shopify sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com/westwood1 all lowercase go to shopify.com/westwood1 now to grow your business no matter what stage you're in shopify.com/westwood1 my dad works in b2b marketing he came by my school for career day and said he was a big row as man then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend my friends still laughing me to this day not everyone gets b2b but with linkedin you'll be able to reach people who do get a hundred dollar credit on your next ad campaign go to linkedin.com/results to claim your credit that's linkedin.com/results terms and conditions apply linkedin the place to be to be awful decision makers let us down the wrong path continually tear it down and sell the team says mr jackpots those are the kind of comments that get to john marah and steve tish theadore says what did you have to say to tibido interesting um well i i asked him i asked him what went on in the second half and you know he basically said that was a penalty on the face mask he said uh he did come out of the game a little bit but not as much as i thought he did but he said you know the game was kind of out of hand at that point um you know his his general thoughts after the game it basically like the giants feel like listen let's get let's get back to the drawing board we know we can do better it wasn't good enough like those kind of things but um you know cave on and the giants i think cave on is a good example of a giant player who i will tell you this i will tell you this tibidoer one person did mention to me that they said listen our pass rush got uh got there sometimes burns got there sometimes decks got there sometimes then kind of trailed off so that tells you joey b says the drone show on friday was sick yeah it looked it looked like especially the phil sims with the arms and the air that was cool no met says marah isn't selling the team um super unknown says pat this is just awful ryan says if i'm steve tish i bring a president to run the team and tell john marah to retire someone else needs to run the organization we could be at that point as far as how they stack up simian says yep she clean sheet of paper um ny says he should though this team is an abysmal embarrassment mess dave z says marah can be made all he wants as he caches that shared revenue check from the tv deals and yog says pat let us know when you see bill bell check in the owners box it's time big dog says in my eyes joe has to go and marah needs to never hire a guy named joe ever again i'll go to my grave saying that joe judge got screwed and was a good ceo coach he just needed an offensive coordinator kevin said the giant should have given coughlin debels headset at halftime i am a season ticket holder has no plans of sitting through this garbage again this season wow there's kevin esch bacher saying he's a season ticket holder who has no plans of sitting through this garbage again this season wow wow like i said these are the comments that get to john marah and steve tish and the ownership these are the comments that resonate if you want change with the giant's organization these are the comments that they hear loud and clear big dog says at this point this regime doesn't deserve to draft a quarterback i agree dean says no quarterback and play behind this o line awful alex says oh sorry about that he says i never i will never be embarrassed to be a giant fan but i took off my jersey before going food shopping wow that is insane and by insane i don't mean you're insane for doing that i mean i'm just in in awe or like my jaw is on the floor about like i knew it was bad but this is what i mean about me learning from you guys it reinforces how bad it is when you say something like that it reinforces to me to ownership to the team just how bad it is when you say something like that no met says dj fleeced the giants for over 100 million rookie salary included wow guys i'll tell you what i might write an extra story for the daily news with some of your comments in the story as like a fan reaction as long as you guys are all okay with that i'm sure you are but some of these comments that is coming from you guys about like how embarrassed you are and how bad it is i think this really resonates about how bad it is so as long as you're cool with that i'm sure you are but like guys like kevin alex and others have others have said stuff like that but i think this kind of fan reaction really deserves to be heard and it's being heard here on talking ball live with pat leonard but also deserves to be heard in print i believe because it's one thing to be frustrated with the team it's another thing to say that you're going to stop coming to the games and that you don't want to wear their jersey that's that's that's serious stuff no met says dj fleeced the giants for over a hundred million dollars rookie salary included strider says the quarterback situation reminds me of the quarterbacks in the 90s once phil sims retired the only thing that holds the team back is the qb it was not just the qb though today even though he was bad this says pat i can't stand this team big dog says jones had more time in the pocket than ever he did but there were free runners there was pressure i mean he got hit 12 times and sacked five big dog said 17 hits on past plays so like me big dog oh one sorry one of the sacks was on a running play one of the sacks on a running play so that's what 16's 16 hits on quarterback plays while i'm passing plays but big dog like that's you know you're you're absolutely right that the old line today was better than it was in week one last year against alice or whatever but to me that it was way worse than i think it needs to be and it was not fixed by any means and i think that he was under a lot of pressure i thought neighbors his comment was the best one where he said the annual study was trying to get me the ball he had a lot of pressure in his face jones is not turning into Peyton Manning in a week says simian strider says dable calling that quarterback john third down was a strange call yeah listen everybody gets on joe judge for that call at the goal line and obviously that was a horrendous call and embarrassing for the giants organization how about brine dable's two quarterback runs there punting at mid field on third and three i mean or on fourth and three jeez embarrassing stuff whole team looked totally unprepared says lando did they know they were playing did they know did they even know they were playing a game i know terrible simian says jones threw behind people over their heads and into the dirt when he had time a juzimi says jones left the clean pocket to run into a sack twice today was it twice i thought it was once you know it was twice collusion says agree the annual jones wasn't the only one who sucked dable's play calling was rough i like how how do you have leak slate and hide in robinson and only throw the ball 20 plus yards once pathetic that's insane right thead door says all bets are off what do you mean they can't do anything until the season is over shane could give okay calling back could give play calling back to kafka they could start luck think they will i think everything has to be on the table to fix it but listen if you give play calling back to mike kafka i mean you're not you're basically firing brian dable at that point if you do that if the general manager does that or if ownership does that i mean you're basically firing the coach right uh you might as well just fire them and make kafka the interim in that point what i mean thead door about all bets are off are their decision is already made for next season possibly if it continues to go in that route they lose to Washington i also mean dable mitzv season firing is absolutely on the table listen we talked about it today the annual jones job he might have already lost his job with this game like you know the other two they're on the hot seat the the gm and coach the quarterback might have lost his job today no matt says yeah wings defense got rough roughed up yesterday though his michigan defense got roughed up by texas who is really good in a college game including some short fields at the end of the first half and the start of the second half um you know obviously yeah michigan got their ass kicked but no mattes let's face it the wink martin dale giants defense gave them a schematic advantage especially against mediocre to less than less than improved quarterback he beat Lamar jackson here for god's sakes what are we talking about michigan's defense come on no mattes come on strider says uh let me see striders talking about younger through weapons that passes behind when he had time t patrick says thank you pat for identifying dable as a key contributor amateurous coaching i agree big dog says paid brian burns to be a ghost theadore says with no pass rush his defense will be destroyed this says i love your columns you keep it real thank you vish barbs says dishawn watson worst and daniel jones yeah all right gmen says if dable starts next daniel jones next week dable death doesn't want to win surely he isn't dumb enough to get sacked because he doesn't have because he doesn't have the gonads to bench daniel jones wow strider says speaking of a ghost how about cave on tibido listless place as t patrick shane and dable have got to go that's what i think i think dable last year didn't lose the locker room that saved them i think i think it could happen quickly this year vish says who can fix this team great question don't know um any gm and coach out there says vish uh you know hard to say right now i think bill bellad checks the call at the moment 23 count 27 through cabbos yep 33 10 now team was unprepared to play coach needs to go says alex no met says panther scored more and looked better than giants ryan says organization is a disgrace joe shane sucks evan neil and tibido wasted picks t patrick says dallas managed to give a quarterback 240 million giants couldn't afford to pity saviour or seguan or they say they couldn't pay him right exactly simian says let's go you build bellad check shane is the problem says t patrick uh strider says exactly they both have something in common they are not good run supporters um oh about burns and tibido we lost seguan and mckinney for this bs mckinney for this bs hard not to view this it's hard not to be even more critical about the seguan decision now than it was a couple days ago man could that look any worse at the moment bring in bellad checks as t patrick tim says i would have felt better as a fan if daniel jones interceptions were on deep flies or posts all that speed of wide receiver and we don't try to create something explosive that helps make space underneath that's a really good point that's a really good point tim i i think that's excellent excellent observation yeah like we had the pick six against houston and now the pick six against the texans are like behind the line of scrimmage or just across the line of scrimmage horizontal pass place that even if they were caught we're going for minimal to no gains right that's a great point omegas says ex-giants that are ascending once they leave the team seguan joy and love mckinney heaven and grow gino smith jahad ward um her net oh will ernanda's right yeah how about hottie ward with the quarterback today and what were his final numbers here let's see in that pass rush rotation um yeah two quarterback hits so hottie in the box score there so better numbers than cave on tibido jahad ward today that's not not exactly something you want to hear um let's see kenny looks slow says no matt's i like him but i can understand letting him walk i mean he did have a really nice anticipatory pick six in the first quarter at least you can make at least you can make money off this team says patrick bet the favorite and the under oh the under was automatic also i told you guys on talking about live could have made you a lot of money if you bet it i told you aran jones i told you the giants run defense that's what i was thought i felt like was the quietest thing i was most concerned about and yet total it was 26 for 111 for 4.3 but i thought aran jones really had his way 14 carries 94 yards 6.7 yards per carry for aran jones the tyson chan the tie chanler eight for 17 brought it down but aran jones like a good running back a top running back had his way the giants never stopped the run well enough to deter kevin konnell out of the game plan that he entered with strider says pat will dable have the guts to bench jones and put logar dibido in jones continues to struggle dable must have the guts to bench daniel jones can't let personal feelings get in the way neither those quarterbacks is better than daniel but you have to do something right now big tosses three years in the system not an excuse even if it is complicated right james says big pat appreciate you for keeping it real james thank you for being here thanks for kicking us off with the first comment in the queue earlier as well t patrick says bring bellow check home james says jones needs to be gone robert says they don't like jones they know he stinks right they tried to replace him this offseason so the giants already know and they're still starting the guy matthew says hey pat look to me on tv like the receivers seem to be often in the same area did you see the same thing oh you mean like running route too close to each other um there were times i know what you're talking about where it seemed like guys were like running themselves into each other's areas for sure i do think though that the what i saw was flores like brian dabel kind of someone mentioned the pressure coming on daniel jones and brian dabel noted that flores was not like sending the house all the time he was just sending players from different areas like everybody else is up on the line and then different guys come and go and i think what was happening was jones' eyes and decision-making and the giants receivers their routes their route trees and their movement was at times being altered and dictated by the way that the vikings players were dropping and what holes they were taking away in the zones that they were playing so what i saw was the vikings were kind of rerouting the giants receivers into areas sometimes is what i saw obviously something you need to be prepared for but the giants were not to execute properly against let's see omega says yeah obj was hurt but he still went to a super bowl winning team james says a pick six in pre-season a pick six in the regular season at least he's consistent strider says pat daniel jones stepped into the hit more than twice yeah but listen i listen i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna release your you guys are all correct daniel jones holding the ball too long at times stepping into some hits not getting rid of it making the decision how to horrible game but i think anybody who watches this game and thinks the offensive line played well uh needs to watch it again that my opinion my opinion like i said i thought Andrew Thomas was lights out good um have to watch again i don't think john michael schmitz was necessarily like i a weakness of this game i have to watch again but i did i don't think he was like a problem in past pro um i remember one sack particularly where john runyon jr Andrew Thomas on a stunt just got beat clean on the inside where runyon was i thought the leaky part of the line was the right side then wrote in an aluminum that's what i thought robert says five and twelve i don't know if that's meant as a compliment or as a dig at the giants what they're going to do robert because frankly five feels like a lot at this moment this says wink would be a better head coach than brian dabel listen i agree i think wink martin dale i know wink martin dale was somebody who the giants ownership and the giants um organization did not want to leave they did not want him out of the organization they did not want him to no longer be here but martin dale left an environment that he felt like he couldn't work in anymore so that's the reality uh jones has tunnel vision says c_n_a_ simian elia apple did better with the saints as well says omegat patrick says jones doesn't like them rat traders that they are um oh i think you're talking about like the front office looking for a new quarterback uh it's your six times up says alex james says we won't even be five and twelve playing like this yes exactly um let's see shirbs as i wish jones would learn how to spin out of pressure situations yeah all also like once he if he beats a pressure he gets outside extends a play go make a make a play like if you elude a guy throw the ball get rid of the ball don't keep holding it james william says with a lot of people's a lot a lot of people's minds right now where we're kevon tibido and brian burns brad berry also did better with the eagles says omegat heads are definitely rolling the seasons as big dog striders as i watched the first interception he telegraphed it to the defensive end made eye contact as for the second pick stare stare down the target james says we lost saquon for this um teach patrick says i hope jones gets them both fired best thing he could provide at this point iconic asks why wasn't jail and high at playing much so he did not prove in the off season in the preseason that he is as reliable as they need him to be um the scouting report on him coming out of college about the route tree and what he can and can't run that it has been a challenge now he's working hard he's trying his best he has made some catches at times and gains last season and practice this year that have proven that he deserves certain opportunities but dairie slaton is more reliable is better chemistry with daniel jones you saw jail and hyatt at a drop today when he did finally get a good opportunity of course that happens when you don't give a guy a lot of snaps and then you put pressure on one target like they did with sterling shepherd last year um the other thing is they came out and very heavy personnel three tight ends two tight ends max protect you know a lot of either just mowick neighbors or just mowick neighbors and wandale robinson early on so slaton end uh jail and hyatt not on the field as much as to be honest they should have been early on uh but you know that's the uh that's another pick joe shane third round pick jail and hyatt it's supposed to be a deep threat it's supposed to be uh unlocking this authorance like for example again i'm not making excuses for daniel jones here but wandale robinson jail and hyatt like these are guys you drafted to help unlock the quarterback we now you don't have jail and hyatt on the field much what are we doing robert says eagles on light years ahead of the giants yes they are they have been for some time omegas has plenty of examples of ex-giants that are ascending after they leave is it the players or the culture of vent life no it's the it's the team the lack of intro uh constructive infrastructure it's the organization and bad decision-making um it's all of that tom brady's commentary debut is over hype says nomads oh of course john runny jr not a good enough runblock or good at pass blocking systrider yeah i'm telling you this will be a continued theme throughout the year i'm telling you i've been seeing it all camp and in the preseason the giants do not run block well robert says this was humiliating nomads as every team was light years ahead uh michael says yeah but eli apple has been on three teams giants wasted a first round 10th pick on him joy bees has hate to say but decks and cave on are divas right now in my eyes reporters got to ask the tough questions you may not like them but as leaders of the team they got to handle that better they sounded like brats yeah um i actually didn't hear cave ons full interview so i need to get to the bottom of exactly what he said about the fans in that case but dextor is saying he doesn't respect the booze that's not going to go over well simian says wandale is a check-down security blanket is daniel john's check-down security blanket yes he is six catches on 12 targets for 54 yards from wandale robinson in a 14 yard rush uh let's see striders is also the defensive end van ginkle was lined up at wide nine that usually means speed but he knew the screed was coming but mega says doesn't matter still did better after he left he lie apple joe's fault he is a big time dud says robert that you mean joe's fault there um all right let's see simian says when i said tie rod was the best quarterback on the team last season i was attacked you shouldn't be that was the reality scott says in the lack of time that these guys spent in the preseason together it shows every year in the beginning watching what i saw today was just awful scott the problem here is and i asked brian dable this today said are you does this catch you off garden or you concerned because you changed your practice regimen you practiced harder you prepared harder knowing that the dallas cowboys game last year was a total disaster was unacceptable in week one and yet you still lay a terrible egg right that to me is one of the most concerning things that's the scary part if you're brian dable on the giants ean says inept having no or having or showing no skill clumsy another fan here strider ripping cave on tibido collusion says cave on and bird disappeared against good tackles they're decent players but not elite yeah darras saw is really good uh for uh minnesota vikings omega says jpp another example still bawling out with two fingers after he left as well yep with the box joams is a regime killer says big dog um let's see simian says when wandale went in motion behind the receivers every new yeah right we knew the scream is coming robert says jojane handsome young know it all disrespected saquon barkly the illa says if we draft a quarterback next year that's a two to three-year developmental time period that will put us in year four of the burns contract why was it such a pressing need to spend that kind of money on him again the illa this is what i was saying when they made that uh signing and trade and thank you that's a really good question as exciting as it was to land a big pass rusher and as much as jojane was selling like listen we're getting this guy under contract and now we have a core that's going to grow together and he's selling all that right as much as that scene those parts of it seem like something you could sell that was a desperately aggressive move that was the money they spent the assets they used that was a move by an organization that needed desperately to add big-time game-changing players now so they give him the money that gets him on the field and on the team and it's build and pitch to you as look at this long-term investment but what it really is it's like another version of like darren waller last year and i'm not saying brian merns is retiring any year what i'm saying is when they traded for darren waller through armpit last year it was the same idea of they're trading for a 31-year-old in that case tight end they're trying to improve the team right now like that's what they were doing they're trying to improve the team right then and now james says kavon and berns aka castor and slimer ghost connection wow john says karson beck season robert says jojane doesn't draft well uh let's see simian says steve tish wants to sell betch says what if joe may dable take over playcon to expose him because those weird formations came back but mike wasn't around jojane is on the record saying he prefers his head coach not call the place so that's we know how he feels collusion says i like bill bell check but come on guys there's a reason the Patriots are one of the worst teams in the nfl he can't draft he won six super bowls collusion with the Patriots but i know you're saying that the roster eventually caught up to him yeah that part's true um collusion i think also you know bell check's older um i don't think he's returning to just any situation there's a big debate really about like like listen this bell check gonna come to the giants to like try to rebuild them in four years right is that gonna be the job he wants i could tell you this too bell check would be interested in returning the giants i think but they need to change the way they do things and the giants when joe judge was here for example it was like hey come in here and change the way we do things we know that we're a broken system here and then it was like oh wait but don't change that don't change that right so that was kind of what happened with joe judge behind the scenes and you know if that's the precedent set for a fellow check was going to come in and what he was going to say on his conversations with john maristee tish then that would be bad news or it would it would mean he wouldn't come here big dog says shane really put his job and credibility in the hands of daniel jones well that's why listen that's why it's such a bad look but that's you know you see him walking around obviously talking to ryan polls about how basically like yeah it must be nice to not be still searching for a quarterback which is another way of saying we still don't have our guy even though i'm paying this guy 40 million a year so that's like you know jones becomes the scapegoat and other people escape that's the idea behind that kind of rhetoric but that's ugly and as we're talking about here now that's that's just one of the one of the problems james says jpp aka eight fingers play better than burns and cave-ons combined today uh strider says call ernie a corsey or bill bell check this is crazy tdb says time for ryan tanhino i don't see why you wouldn't make a call uh six years give him a lot of chances joe messed up ernie a corsey says vish see dillis says i don't want bell check in here and let's he's bringing primetime tom hridi with him his drafts over the past six to seven years with the patriots were atrocious not who i want okay echoing what we just heard a few comments ago robert says wink was right got rid of the wrong guy again agree they didn't get rid of him he resigned ken says i said at the time of the burns trade to sign to neil hunter and use the second rounder for a corner that's what i thought too ken imagine what the eagles and cowboys do to us those gains will seal dable and shames fate yeah if dable gets there ernie wouldn't sign up for this dumpster fires is anthony not at his age at least soft zone oh my god says robert about the defense i know it listen the the defense and the soft zone especially on that you know that six-play 70-yard drive that the vikings had where jefferson caught that 44-yard pass i mean that that defense the scheme the plan on that drive was ridiculous ridiculous so bad by the way um the new england patriots beat the Cincinnati Bengals today so that's one of the teams supposedly in the running for the number one pick one of the teams i think would be it is in the running for the number one pick beat the Cincinnati Bengals on the road today we want the Giants putting out stuff like this on the field we're at a high 337 339 viewers and counting on talking ball live post game with pat letter for metlay stadium almost two hours in and we are cooking here with Giants conversation and insight from me and also from you the fans the die hearts the people who need either uh either delay on the couch some therapy after watching a game like that but also to kind of spin it forward talk about what we saw talk about what's coming and break down everything about your favorite team brought to you by boom chaga bed online and estate and ideate coffee go get all of those products um guys if you're new to our community we are live talking ball live on youtube pl and nfl at monday's 9 p.m. on youtube we're live thursday's and half-time and thursday's a football and we're live after every Giants game post game from the stadium home and away also have plenty of guest interviews coming already plenty that you can watch on the channel but also benny valor and i will be talking every monday breaking down the entire league and also random guests from around the league great insight stars adam shifter's been on the pod i mentioned berry sanders earlier that plenty of Giants players adori jackson told me he would do the podcast going into the Notre Dame usc week even though my irish completely crap the bed and their season is over disgusting uh but you're going to get a lot of insight from our channel and from talking ball live so thank you all for being here giant step backwards says rob simian says bill belgick doesn't have to be gm head coach is enough to rebuild the culture strider says pat was it true that oh line coach got into it with evan neil i did not see that strider who pointed that out i did not notice that anthony says sad but true dkit is hands down the talking ball mb p says dave z yes thank you dave z dkit you're the man if guys by the way i know i'm still going in the chat you try to get to all your questions if you want to comment or question answered first or one that's been sitting in the queue for a while and i haven't addressed you can purchase a super chat or super sticker to go to the top of the queue and i will answer or address it immediately that's a way to support the channel and also to get my attention to reward you for supporting the channel there if not plot your question in i'll get to it and like i always say please hit the thumbs up the like button right now on youtube while we are live that really helps our channel continue to grow over 3000 subscribers and counting patrick says i hate being a fan of this team uh wane says i placed a jones contract on ownership not on chain wane it deserves to be on both they both played a role robert says he had some running lanes and did not take them dilla says shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business shopify is there to help you grow shopify helps you sell everywhere from their all-in-one e-commerce platform to their in-person POS system shopify is got you covered shopify helps you turn browsers into buyers with the internet's best converting checkout 36 percent better on average compared to other leading commerce platforms and sell more with less effort thanks to shopify magic your ai powered all-star what i love about shopify is how no matter how big you want to grow shopify gives you everything you need to take control and take your business to the next level shopify powers 10 percent of all e-commerce in the us and shopify is the global force behind all birds rotties and brook linen and millions of other entrepreneurs of every size across 175 countries plus shopify's award-winning help is there to support your 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great point no met's I think you're looking at people starting from scratch again right like somebody just pointed out earlier you draft a rookie quarterback talking about a three year three four-year process now why are we supposed to believe that Joe Shane's drafts will improve. Joey B says you think if we hand the keys to Brandon Brown we could turn this around what do you think we got to do Pat who are we going to bring in for gm and coach and who are the candidates. I don't think Brandon Brown's the answer I mean he's been a part of all the decisions that they've made here so he's helped make this bed that they're lying in at the moment Joey B the you know the coaches that I think I've been looking at coming out of this season are Bobby Slowick in Houston offensive coordinator down there. Lou Anna Rumo the defensive coordinator for the Cincinnati Bengals the guy I think can do it as a New York guy you know of course I don't know who his offensive coordinator would be but you need to figure that part out obviously but I think he deserves an interview another interview they've interviewed him before Bill Belichick I think has to be your first call though as a head coach obviously even if you guys don't you know want him to be the general manager but I think like you definitely need to create a lineman in the front office when you bring him in so you know those are some of the guys who kind of top my list I mean everybody around the league coaches tend to emerge as as years and seasons go on I mean you know if Kellen Moore has a great year in Philadelphia he could again be a hot name on the market and on the circuit and a guy who maybe can help grow with a young quarterback and an offense that presumably would be somebody to take a look at as well so those are what are we just named for coaching candidates there for four names to keep an eye on and then from a general manager standpoint you know the top teams in the league right now Kansas City Philadelphia you know Green Bay Los Angeles Rams you know these are just some teams who I think if you're the Giants you know Houston's doing a really good job right now I think you need to look at the teams that are succeeding having success at drafting Baltimore is always one those are the clubs I think where you got to try to poach people who know what they're doing San Francisco 49ers obviously so you know you saw like in their last search they went their top three finalists were Adam Peters who is now the Washington GM he was from the Niners you had Ryan polls coming from Kansas City he's now with the Bears yet Joe Shane coming from Buffalo he's now the Giants GM so that's how it's going to play out so I will go into and dig up more names on that front at on those organizations and bring them to you guys sooner rather than later on one of our talking ball lives coming up John says who's to blame I know John should take most of the heat but why is it that other teams can turn it around so easily and we're stuck in purgatory John I think it's like somebody said earlier I know some people want to defend the line someone people blame the line some people defend Jones some but people blame Jones some people say it's not as much tables some people say it is John to me it's everything like for example some drives stall or end because Daniel Jones made a bad play ran into a hit whatever some drives short circuited because of penalties some drives because of drops by receivers some of it was bad play calling on defense some of it was bad play calling some of it was the pass rush wasn't getting to the quarterback the run defense wasn't working like to me John this is why also it obviously goes up to the general manager and pass just the coaching staff because it's roster construction it's personnel the Giants only have 51 guys on their active roster right now you're allowed to have 53 they won't explain why they're doing it I'm assuming it's financial financially motivated that they had only 51 players how about this we didn't even talk about this injury wise Gunnar Olsjewski limited all week with a groin injury doesn't get put on the injury report with a designation but then is re is injured in warm-ups with his groin doesn't play obviously that's an aggravated injury that pre-existed that Gunnar Olsjewski had and then they don't have a real punt returner in the game they put Darius Slaton back there now there were penalties on on the play on Minnesota so they wouldn't have gotten the ball even if they recovered but then Darius Slaton is not really a punt returner muffs the punt he's not really a punt returner why is he back there in a game totally unprepared bad planning bad preparation um listen when these guys got hired they were first-time GM first-time coach and I think three years in it's very clear there's a lot of things they don't know what they're doing Jackson is optimistic he says we are going to do better we were all drunk today Simeon says Locke is another turnover machine Robert says 20 years have passed since 2022 maybe not as fast as he used to be uh Boycott the next game says Ian unacceptable wow Jackson says there are a lot of positives to take away the worst part was the coaching and that is the best part interesting so Jackson is suggesting he thinks that the players could do better with better coaching so that would be how you get to the point where let's say Debo gets fired and Shane stays now let's see uh all this and the GM didn't bring a good quarterback to in says Joey G that's a really good point Joey it's like you don't believe in your starter trying to replace him and then the only solution you have is Drew Locke and then Tommy DeVito that's a really good point Ken says hey Pat once you confront Debo when he answers every question with we have to watch the tape ask him what's so magical about this tape when he claims to watch it every week and we keep losing honestly Debo sounds like he's just going through the motions on these answers he's providing no insight nothing I mean he was asked about why they didn't play Michael McFadden after dressing him even though he was hurt but not on the injury report he's like oh I have to talk to the coaching staff he's like what are you talking about talk to the coaching staff you draft it you you didn't put an injured guy on an injury report but then he didn't play because of the injury but then you're not sure why didn't play I you know see Jackson feels like people should not boycott says go be a Jets or commanders fan if you're going to boycott well that would be the next step if a fan was going to say I've just owned this team completely that has happened in the past in fact Jackson I know people who have I know people like um you know my father in law was a Jets fan when he was younger and eventually just said screw it I'm done just done with the team right and so like I know plenty of people fans of various teams who are dysfunctional eventually just throw in the towel you know super unknown says I agree with you Pat locked did not lock it up he looked unsure and unconfident in the preseason Anthony says why do I give so much of my time to this team why rhetorical and fair question Jackson says Daniel Jones didn't throw three interceptions uh oh okay yeah I don't know I don't think I said that but if I did yeah no you threw two picks Jackson once Kafka to call the plays NYG NYG says I know the top teams rest their players during the preseason I think we should have played our starters more during the preseason to try and get the Kings figured out yeah I mean it's all about how your team responds to things also do you prepare well do you put them in best situations to succeed like the Giants they can't afford to rest guys I mean last year like coming out of last year like they rest they rested their whole team throughout camp and it was a total disaster the guys physically weren't ready to play so Jackson says Dable should not be calling plays should not be calling plays big dogs says Kafka calling plays won't make a difference Dable we had a good week of practice wow who cares it's Sunday that matters Jim I totally agree nothing aggravates me more when your team craps the bed than when the coach and the players are like well we had a good game plan we had a good process during the week obviously not obviously not right bullshit the game was almost unlatchable Charles says it was for a lot of fans in the stands a lot of people left early a lot of people left early people are tired of it MJ says the season already feels over agreed Jackson says anyone who thinks Dable should be calling plays after week one knows nothing about football Hank Hank says two wins if that for the season Dom says how much are we paying burns and what draft pick was KVON burns is 28.2 a year right almost I think it goes up to it goes higher than that towards 30 if with incentives and then and then KVON was number five overall pick I think I think you're asking rhetorical question there but yes super unknown says I I'm not sold on the defensive coordinator I don't like his style yes burns and KVON were invisible just tank honestly says for shoot KV I'm tired of watching the C team Giants it's painful looking for the number one pick in the draft says Charles Jim says did I hear someone say we had a Hall of Fame rush this season Thibodeau Burns Bobbio all MIA Stephen says really really disturbing two years in a row opening game at home and the team looked unprepared with no urgency how did this coach get into the playoffs the first year I'm thinking he is no good I'm telling you I'm telling you the game plan work between Dable and Martin Dale and we in year one the defensive ability to take advantage of overwhelmed and let's say mediocre quarterback play that they were facing they've six and one start plus they took down Lamar Jackson which can you imagine Shane Bowen's defense facing Lamar Jackson versus Wink Martindale taking down Lamar Jackson and the Baltimore Ravens do you imagine that but that was that was the key the defense was giving them a schematic advantage and Dable that year crafted some smart game plans to stay away from their weaknesses protect Daniel Jones from himself at times protect their offensive line they also had some hard-nosed alignment guys like John Feliciano Nick Gates guys who hard-nosed tone setters like dogs as they like to say we have dogs we let some dogs walk out the door fellas right so to me those are some of the some of the reasons why they won some of the reasons they're not winning now also like even though Dable had some good game plans to kind of go to strengths to stay away from weaknesses that year like I think someone said it earlier it's gotten predictable now what he tries to and likes to do with Daniel Jones and with this offense like people are not surprised by how they attack anymore Shane was the one who didn't pick up Jones's fifth year option in essence cost them 32 million extra on last year's cap and liable for up to 120 more with no other quarterback in the wings legend says t-patric same shit different years says chronicles hard to watch as Charles Jackson says the Giants have such a bad vibe in their stadium yes Jackson really good point I guess you were here so Jackson the Giants fans like you know it was interesting in the preseason now listen this is probably out this is how they did it last year too but it was interesting to me seeing how they only played the first string players really in Houston on the road and so they hadn't put their team in front of the home fans yet until this game and so there's a reason for that and Jackson points it out Jackson's a really good point it's because it's toxic the team creates a toxic environment when it's play and then the fans are done with it super unknown says I'm tired of hearing about saquon they offered him money he did not want it he is gone so let it go no he wanted more guarantee money and they would and off they wouldn't give it to him separate note and also saquon as he said on the record was upset with leaks coming out of the organization she ain't getting outclass from every angle says big dog we're unlikely to win six this season time to start talking about the 2025 draft says Jim that's correct it's like a dead nightclub that no one wants to go to says Jackson about the stadium wow whoo Jackson that's that's another comment that's going in a daily news story tomorrow man you guys are lighting it up bombos says forget about lock who's that backup head coach probably kafka jackson says they need to move their stadium super unknown says let's see how things play out guys let's see how things play out almost 300 people in the chat this is great pat says joey b and now we're up to 331 i think we got up to 350 a few minutes ago we are churning and cooking here on talking ball live with pat Leonard new york daily news calmest NFL calmest and giant's beat writer this is my ninth season covering the NFL we are live monday's at 9 p.m thursday's at halftime of thursday night football and after every giant's home and road game from the press box after i come out of the locker room from talking to the players end of ryan day ball we also have plenty of guests on the podcast benny phaller and i breaking it down every monday all the action in the nfl not just giants but we will connect it to the nfc east and to the giants to what we see going down and as well several special guest appearances more content we got merch coming we saw our unveiling you see the new logo here now our rebrand thanks thanks to adi santones so bus bustaman who's excellent complete pro adi really appreciate him let's see it looks like we got another super chat in here oh man guys looks like looks like i'm not going to make it through the entire chat of questions here because we're at two hours in 15 minutes and man oh man there's a lot more down here all right oh and there's some super stickers here that i have to catch up on guys so let me get to your super stickers as well all right so we got eds says pat would mara be interested in mike vrabel oh i don't know that you know uh that's that's a good name to throw into the mix eds thank you i know vrabel got a listen if they were gonna say joe oh joe joe joe joe was too hard on people right then mike vrabel's not your guy right like mike vrabel is you know my way or the highway type guy uh one second we've been going so long uh we we're on the clock here okay is another half hour okay or okay how about my 30 i'll be out of here thank you all right we're on the clock we're so popular you're on talking ball live with pat leonard we are on the clock they're about to shut the stadium down and we're still going here um all right so eds these are my way or a highway guy or the highway guy mike vrabel is so um you know i think listen they have brought some people from tennessee here already ryan kowden is an advisor to joe shane uh there are tennessee people in the infrastructure here already so maybe you kind of that's a way to pivot um that'd be interesting though i mean patria guy even though he's not a bell check like coach who was groomed he was a player for bell check uh but that's that's a good name to throw into the mix you're right that is a good name to throw into the mix um let's see who else checked in and by the way right now so we're gonna we're gonna wrap up by eight thirty here so it is eight oh eight oh seven p.m. eastern right now so what i'm going to do is any super chats or super stickers i will answer and then what i'm going to do is skim through the chat and try to see comments or questions that aren't repeats of things we've already talked about before we wrap up but like i said super chat even if it's not an expensive one if you have something that you really want answered before we get out of here at eight thirty all right um lfgm says dj is costing us in play money and a roster spot i'd argue with that kurtis thank you so much for rewarding us there with that super sticker really appreciate the support from you keith wilson checks in and says just need to clean whole house including scouts and player personnel no reason we can't no it's no reason we have so many developmental guys starting we can't evaluate talent right not only that but think of this guys think of the fact that at positions like corner and an offensive line where joe shane is drafted josh azudu at guard mark us mike or josh azudu guard tackle mark us mikeith who who was cut right tackle guard gordell flop corner right diante bangs court whatever you have an organization that had to sign a dory jackson and greg van roton veterans at those two spots because you didn't draft players well enough at those spots and they're not developing and they're not turning out to be good enough players right so that's an indictment of your personnel process how about the fact that they've spent assets meaningful assets three straight years on a tight end daniel bellinger fourth round pick dairn waller third round pick trade theo johnson fourth round pick why because you're struggling to get it right because you can't get it right all right like i said super chats if you want something answered before we wrap up at 830 eastern otherwise i'm going to try to get through and answer uh things that aren't repeats novice says what is the giant's identity what do you what do they want it to be teams like the ravens have changed coaches and gms they still have the same identity novice very cutting and in-depth and interesting and savvy observation by you somebody who clearly knows the game and knows organizations and leadership novice that's a really good point and this is something that michael and bardi the former gm when we were watching hard knocks he mentioned on his podcast gm shuffle he mentioned one thing that really frustrated in watching it was that he felt like the giants were just picking players out of the hat based on preferences of talent and skill or whatever and that they weren't doing enough of okay let's define the umbrella of the team we want to be and our identity there and then fill that and fit it in with how we select players how we draft them and where we see them fitting within that philosophy like to me novice it's about first and foremost defining what that philosophy is like they say we want smart tough players right every that's a football player i mean that doesn't define anything about a team like shane bow and say in the other day he wants an aggressive defense he put his defenses aggressive that's what that's the way he coaches what do you mean your defense is aggressive every defense is aggressive like as far as like we want to hit people we want to tackle like that's not that doesn't describe a philosophy you know what i mean it's football it's tackle football so novice what their identity is what they want it to be is they want to be a team that pushes people around in the trenches and has the skill and ability to make explosive plays on both sides of the ball so that means taking the ball away on defense and that means making big plays with your skill players in the passing game on offense so you know i would say they were o for four on what that that identity is that they want it to be but um you know again it's not it's not adequately defined right it's not adequately defined i think is the best way i say it let's see steven says season ticket holders pick up pick six up left and i have stayed at bad games through the years starting last year week one i'm done leaving early with this garbage uh let's see okay i can't tell exactly what you were saying there so you're saying you won't leave early now because it's been you've been doing it too much or you've seen it happen too much oh sorry about that no so so you're saying through the years you were staying at bad games but after last year and now this week one you're done and you're leaving early got it for show kb says shout out to you pat you're the only bright spot within this giant's franchise and neighbors uh i know he's ready for DJ to be gone no wonder he wasn't happy to get drafted here for sure thanks for saying that i really appreciate that i'm glad you enjoy um my content and also the conversations that we're generating here like i said um really um like i said about what we're doing here you know really appreciate all the support that you guys are providing here on in the community at talking ball with pat Leonard believe network youtube pl and nfl and the new york daily news um and continuing to build and yet it's tough it's tough dillah says sequon wouldn't change any of this even if he was here shaking my head sequon would have wasted away on this team over the next three years you would have paid him to be maybe a fringe playoff team at best makes no sense i hear what you're saying there big dog says i miss wink no doubt no doubt all right let's see it was looking like mad at a Madden game on rookie with suggested plays joey b says of brian debels play calling super unknown says this reminds me of the Dallas loss last year at this time was not as embarrassing but just as heart-wrenching interesting i think it was just as embarrassing although it was a different game the only thing better about it was that it wasn't this standalone game in prime time let's see jackson says move to lake success new hide park new york the original location of united nations all right jackson will remember you said that see you saying your copyright in that all right michael says put pressure on coach dable to get rid of jones please hey i was the one ask him in the in the press conference are you considered did you consider a quarterback change in the game are you considering it for washington so i was the one asking those two questions if daniel jones plays like this do they have a legit backup plan it's drew lock timing to veto or go sign somebody right now daisy says the giants need boom chaga and we need magical mushrooms how else to tolerate this team big dog says this is the result of bad business you don't let your star players walk for nothing facts pat no doubt big dog big dogs bringing it today we need to mix up the defense a little no doubt evan says my thinking is if shane gets fired or not there will be a new quarterback here next year no doubt a ryan tana hill says chronicles jackson black says to me you are a scrub reporter i will demolish you jackson be nice we can disagree we can debate stuff be nice i'm giving you credit on stuff i don't know where this angst is coming from jackson but be nice man let's keep it civil that's that's like a player haters ball comment right there that you remember the chappelle skit player haters ball that's like jackson's best attempt at the player haters ball why don't you vacuum that coat man maulin the problems with daniel jones as he shows no leadership quality says ron he looked lost today pat don't caught dope content as always says blazing how was the team in the locker room blazing great question um they all had kind of glass glassy like look in the distance looks on their in their eyes uh look discouraged um looked defensive at times looked frustrated darius slatens had something like it's not about it's not about a lack of belief but we just have to go and do it or else it really doesn't matter whether but we believe or not so um i think my takeaway blazon like i talked to i heard from one person that mentioned that Burns and Dexter Lawrence got some pressure and didn't use cave ons name um i talked to a couple player i talked to one player um i think i told you like diante banks he was just kind of staring kind of like this i but it wasn't about like me asking questions it was about here we go again type stuff you know what i mean let's see super unknown says yeah pat i said that they should go for someone like rattler you said the giant's like tall guys dj is tall and he can't still he still can't see the field absurd super unknown i i i appreciate you saying that because they they were looking at rattler i know that's for a fact and i was reporting that during the draft i thought they might they might pluck him in the middle rounds i really don't know why they didn't i think honestly here's why i think recently like just talking to people i think the reason they didn't draft a quarterback um in the middle rounds is because they it's not only because they had a lot of needs on the roster it's also because they like i think are married to their value on their board too much like you don't want to you don't want to ignore value positional value matters a lot to joe shane and i get it and of course we always were banking like people like dave gellman to use positional value just once in your decision making right but it strikes me that the giants are married a little too much to their draft board um where like for example they'll say you know like maybe they liked spencer rattler he just didn't get to the next pick where we thought he was worth it it's like but yeah but what about reading the draft board and understanding where you think he might go ahead of you and if you want that developmental quarterback going and getting him you know what i'm saying like that's where i think that they're really missing the ball there the missing the you know they're kind of missing the boat watching the eagles on friday night watching cowboys now the giants are in a world of hurt in this division yes scott the only question is whether they'll finish in third or last and we'll find that out next week bookend tackle says play calling was bad d_j_ was bad receivers drop-and-balls penalties light years better next week they have to be for me to be optimistic this was bad all around offensively dave z says to jackson who was trashing me and his defending datal jones jackson are you really katoms dave oh man dave with the comment of the chat that was great dave all right let's see if there's any other comments in the queue we have about eight or nine minutes left in the chat guys so if you have another question or comment drop in a uh please drop in a super chat if you definitely want me to get to it because otherwise i'm gonna i'm continuing to go through the chat and trying to pick out the the ones that stand out or aren't repeats but i might not get all the way to the bottom because they're kicking me out of the stadium here in the next ten minutes uh let's see all right shots taken down the field didn't play with edge or passion offense was very vanilla the same old story why expect any different no doubt uh let's see enough is enough says michael let's see great questions for dable after the game on the podium says solving he was outcoached like you predicted who gets the biggest slice of blame pie i think definitely shane and maria shane dable and jones but i listen i it daniel jones didn't play well enough but shane and dable deserve that it's shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business shopify is there to help you grow shopify helps you sell everywhere from their all-in-one e-commerce platform to their in-person POS system shopify's got you covered shopify helps you turn browsers into buyers with the internet's best converting checkout 36 percent better on average compared to other leading commerce platforms and sell more with less effort thanks to shopify magic your aipowered all-star what i love about shopify is how no matter how big you want to grow shopify gives you everything you need to take control and take your business to the next level shopify powers 10 percent of all e-commerce in the u.s and shopify's the global force behind all birds rothies and brook linen and millions of other entrepreneurs of every size across 175 countries plus shopify's award-winning help is there to support your success every step of the way because businesses that grow grow with shopify sign up for a one dollar per month trial period at shopify dot com slash westwood one all lowercase go to shopify dot com slash westwood one now to grow your business no matter what stage you're in shopify dot com slash westwood one my dad works in b2b marketing he came by my school for career day and said he was a big row as man then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend my friends still laughing me to this day not everyone gets b2b but with linkedin you'll be able to reach people who do get a hundred dollar credit on your next ad campaign go to linkedin dot com slash results to claim your credit that's linkedin dot com slash results terms and conditions apply linkedin the place to be to be parts with them it starts with them i mean you know the roster's not good enough the draft picks aren't good enough for developing the coaching was bad the play calling was bad hzme says thanks for giving us all an avenue to vent pat we need it junkin says what do you think of a hendon hooker trade with the lions i would love to do he's still a development development of player i don't think hendon hooker is popping in right now and being a great quarterback for a team for an nfl team but um you know developmental guy i i think also though his he's kind of ascending as like the the next guy in detroit too i think they really like him so not sure that they would they would trade him at this point ray says what's the status on benching a quarterback so you can cut him with no pay ray basically daniel jones the injury guarantee next year 23 million kicks in in march if he can't put pass a physical at that point so if the giants want to avoid that injury guarantee then you bench him at any point when he's healthy to make sure he doesn't sustain a like a debilitating injury that prevents him from passing the physical in march some people were talking about uh deon sander son shador dave z says deon won't let shador come to the giants they will find a way to win a couple meaningless games and take themselves out of the running for the top qb's in the draft yeah that doesn't feel like the right marriage to me either mark says i'm glad i didn't go to metallands to see the game i saw not a hockey game about the same time thank god that's how i felt about um let yesterday's Notre Dame lost in northern Illinois i was coaching a soccer game and i didn't see it and as my brother texted me lucky you uh let's see diggy says pat who asked dextor Lawrence if he could hear the fans and what are your thoughts about the question and dextor's reaction that was paul shorts from the new york post um i understand what paul was asking though like he was basically saying i think i think he was getting out it was like how did it make you feel what you think of it but the way he asked it was did you hear it right so of course i don't blame dextor for responding in a way like what do you mean did i hear it like i was in the middle of the stadium of course i did but i think what paul's point was was he was getting to what he asked next or you know or what tom rock followed up with was like well how did that make you feel right barb says on my second glass of wine thanks for nothing giants bancock says there's only one way to describe daniel jones he's a spaz all right looks like another super chat in the queue ryan says how does pat leonard fix this what i see is mara always meddled medals in decision-making making uh fires them before they can see their plan through ryan interesting you know a good point to bring back up as we round out our chat here um i think you know i think that the way i would fix this is my opinion my opinion now again i don't have the guys in the hopper in my pocket ready to hire tomorrow but i think what i would do is i would fire the gm and coach this year if if it doesn't if this is what it looks like like if this is what it stays is what you're asking you right if this is the team we see that we see on the field that this is going to be the giants from here on out you fire everybody and you ask bill valid check what is prices like i know like i know people say you didn't draft well enough those kinds of things guys why not i mean at this point why not this yes i do have an email it's p leonard at ny dn oh sorry my email is p leonard at ny daily news dot com so we want to write me an email p leonard at ny daily news dot com omar says can you hire me you mean to the giants hey you could help super unknown says i love you pat always take my calls i mean it you got it oh omar omar's talking about working for me part-time i think omar dm me on instagram ask me exactly what you're uh what you're interested in ryan thanks for that super chat let me see what else i can get to here we have a few minutes left so anyone who wants a question in last minute i'm wrapping it up right before 8 30 here so anybody who wants to get in a question last minute guarantee that it's in purchase a super chat or super sticker if not no worries we've been going for two hours and 30 minutes please before you leave though hit the like button as we are live here please hit the like button that is um that is something that helps us drive subscriptions drives attention to the youtube channel tells people who aren't already aware of talking about live what we are doing here let's see Socrates Socrates what's up says what's worse is i live in viking country and i'm going to have to hear all these Norwegians run their mouths i'd like to be able to go into monday not dreading the bs i'm going to get sheesh oh that's tough that's tough Socrates just gonna have to take it i'm still stuck by that comment earlier about the fan who said that he came home and then took the jersey off to go uh to go food shopping padry says i'm ashamed of this team wow so much so much frustration from those fans but like i said this is what we saw at the stadium today too og knockout a loyal here a loyal here to the channel says i feel vindicated now everyone sees what i've been seeing since the second year yeah let's not call people dumb let's be nice like i said let's be nice luan the eternal optimist says giants will make the playoffs everybody relax eric says that's how you outline if the problems coaching you see the bucks drop 40 on the commanders if the giants can't crack 20 that's your outlying problem great point as we spin it forward two week two let's take a look at the giants opponent washington lost 37 to 20 to the Tampa bay Buccaneers on the road so the giants will be going in to washington for the commander's home opener jadon daniel's at 184 yards passing on 17 of 24 passing an 88 yards rushing on 16 attempts that's a lot two touchdowns rushing as well uh brian robinson had a touchdown run looks like the passing was really spread out and the running backs actually led them in receiving austin echler four for 52 zack ert three for 28 so look it'll be like match ups on the run on the line backers and safeties for the giants let's see how many sacks did the bucks have only two sacks that's interesting because it looked to me like the giants could have an advantage with their offensive line against the or sorry with their defensive line and their pass rush against the washington offensive line but yeah to your point baker mayfield four touchdown passes 289 um looks like bucky erving oh i loved him as a player as a prospect coming out out of argon nine rushes 62 yards chris godwin 83 and a touchdown mike evan 61 two touchdowns gala mitt millen one touchdown wow three receivers over 60 yards four td passes by baker 146.4 qb rating so that's a great point we're going to see it against the commanders or we are not guys i'm going to um i'm going to use some of your comments for a story in the daily news tomorrow because some of your fan comments about how ashamed you are of what you're going to do and not go to the games really does strike home with ownership um let's see kyle i skipped your comment where was it i missed it um i'm going to miss them because we've been live for a long time here and it's the the queue honestly has been too long for me to get to everything i'm really sorry drop it in now kyle drop it in now please please drop it in now i'll read it like i said last minute they're kicking me out of the stadium last minute get it in hit those like buttons please hit those like buttons while we are live takes two seconds takes one second just hit like while we are live that really helps the engagement on the channel let's see i'm a fan says a great another great chat thanks pet you got a fish um let's see tommy says health and wealth to all dave g says three minutes three minutes at the most arm omar says love this channel let's see next one says kyle all right next one yeah monday i'll answer your comment monday so tomorrow we'll do a talking ball live we'll get on that one super unknown you got it tim says have a safe ride home pack great work as always i do not have my own office at the stadium but i'm allowed to use one of the booths here in the suites right down the hallway from where john mara um hangs out watching the games um here on here at met live stadium remember guys talking ball with patlender talking about live with patlender post game is brought to you by the boom chaga mushroom super drink a natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory immune boosting antioxidants and heart healthy compounds you can easily pour this natural liquid supplement into any of your favorite drinks i put mine in my coffee every morning and immediately feel the difference i personally have felt a post-workout like energy boost with boom uh boom chaga has also also has the ability to lower cholesterol reduce inflammation and improve immune and heart health with its beta gluens and antioxidants go to boom chaga.com today to place your first order and if you use the discount code talking about 25 or access it to the qr code on your screen we get 25 off your first subscribe and save order right now that means a month's supply costs you only 30 dollars start feeling the difference today at boom chaga.com also brought to you by bed online and by a state 98 coffee go to a state 98.com backslash talking ball to get a special buy one get one free deal takes less than 10 seconds to make a delicious estate 98 iced coffee all natural specialty coffee with no sugar convenient for on the go guys remember please before we're done hit the like button real quick subscribe to the channel if you haven't already p on nfl on youtube on the believe network new york daily news super unknown says bless you pat where is the link for super chat it should be um where you add a comment underneath where you add a comment super unknown and why oh jesus thanks pat this is a great channel you got it um ryan says you are right pat everyone needs to be fired this organization proves what they are d says what quarterback do i like for the draft next year we'll talk more about that i did think um quin ewers the texas quarterback look good against michigan very good giant needs some boom chaga says tommy no doubt guys thank you always for checking in remember super chats super stickers in the future especially when the chat gets filled like it did today one of our most popular live chats yet here live post game purchase those super chats super stickers to make sure you are heard this is pat leonard signing off from metlai stadium thank you so much everybody for supporting thank you everybody for the super chats starting with d kit and everyone else you chipped in thank you so much guys uh we'll see you next time much love says d d Dave's a safe drive home see you later on talking about live with pat leonard believe network apple spotify if you're listening on audio come join us next time on monday september 9th on the youtube channel see you later if your facilities manager at a warehouse and your hvac system goes down it can turn up the heat literally but don't sweat it granger has you covered granger offers over a million industrial grade products for all your operations including warehouse hvac maintenance and even better they offer access to experts and fast delivery so you and your warehouse can both keep your cool call 1 800 granger click granger dot com or just stop by granger for the ones who get it done then go all right fella we're recording now so it's live go ahead pick on me the way that you want to did i say that i would say that to my son and i mean come on man just go this isn't cbs all right be quiet for a few seconds why would people want to listen to the sims complete podcast well a couple things one if you like to see sons pick on their father this might be the place if you want to see a place where the father just kicks he out of his son this would be the place what do you like about it man ditto father son dynamic duo talking about the game of football that we love and share and appreciate together and you know hey it's an extension of what we did right growing up i i was able to watch my father play football then obviously watch him as a broadcaster and then he taught me the game of football and share the wisdom that he learned throughout his playing career and uh you know hey sometimes we're full of it and sometimes we're we actually know a thing or two well we do do a lot of research at least i do i'm you you little spotty but you know you're you hang in there it's fun i love doing this and it's been awesome sims complete check us out wherever your podcasts are available on the believe network appreciate it see you if you like the show please take a moment to rate review and subscribe it really does help the show to grow thank you for listening [BLANK_AUDIO]