Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard

Giants-Vikings Week 1 Preview: Rookie safety Tyler Nubin expected to start

Duration:: 2h 15m
Broadcast on:: 06 Sep 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

Prepare for the Giants' 2024 season opener against the Minnesota Vikings, including Malik Nabers' debut, Justin Jefferson's star power, Tyler Nubin's role, Deonte Banks' task and Brian Daboll's full-time playcalling shift, with New York Daily News NFL columnist Pat Leonard in this LIVE Q&A with fans. SUBSCRIBE to the @PLonNFL YouTube page to get the latest Giants updates and news delivered directly to you, and to participate in regular LIVE Q&A chats with Pat. Purchase a Super Chat or Super Sticker to have your comments elevated to the top of the feed and have Pat answer your question FIRST! Watch the full video of this podcast on Pat's YouTube Channel. Find Pat also on 'X' (@PLeonardNYDN), Instagram (@PLonNFL) & TikTok (@PLonNFL). Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard is sponsored by @BoomChaga, the BOOM Chaga Mushroom SuperDrink, a natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory, immune-boosting antioxidants and heart-healthy compounds. We are also sponsored by @BetOnlineag_Official and @Estate98Coffee on @Bleav.

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What I love about Shopify is how no matter how big you want to grow, Shopify gives you everything you need to take control and take your business to the next level. Shopify powers 10% of all e-commerce in the US and Shopify's the global force behind all birds, Rothy's, and Brooklynan, and millions of other entrepreneurs of every size across 175 countries. Plus, Shopify's award-winning help is there to support your success every step of the way. Because businesses that grow, grow with Shopify. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com/Westwood1. All lowercase. Go to Shopify.com/Westwood1 now to grow your business. No matter what stage you're in, Shopify.com/Westwood1. All right. Welcome, everybody. The NFL season is here. Ravens, Chiefs, underway, half-time as we speak. But we are here on Talking Ball live with Pat Leonard. Week one, Giants, Vikings. Week one preview, 1 p.m. Eastern time, Sunday at MetLife Stadium. Excited to preview this game. Talk about the matchup with you guys. See how you feel it's going to shake out. Answer your questions. Tell you what I'm hearing, what I know about the Giants' plans, how they plan to attack the Vikings, and whether they can get it done. Number one thing I wanted to talk to you about tonight is that I expect Tyler Newbin, the rookie second round safety to start in this game against Minnesota. Now, Dane Beltan is limited with a back injury. Shane Bowen, the defensive coordinator, told me that both players, Beltan and Newbin, would have a role in this game. So maybe they find a way to finagle both of them onto the field at the start. Beltan gets the first snap, whatever it is. But my understanding is, Newbin is going to be the guy back there in this game. He's going to get the start. That's why they drafted him. And so I talked to him a little bit this week about the challenge of delivering on the expectations that the Giants drafted him, and spelled out to him directly when they selected him. And Newbin said, you know, he didn't come into this year ever saying, "I have to be the starter. I have to earn that job. I have to be that guy right off the bat." What he said the Giants told him is they wanted him to communicate well, because that's what he was in college at Minnesota. He was a leader. He was somebody who could direct the defense. And when we were at the Jets' joint practices, we heard firsthand, I was standing there right on the sideline. The loudest player on the field was Tyler Newbin directing traffic. Taught the Deontay Banks. He said that Newbin is not afraid to tell people what they did wrong and correct them right there on the field, and that he likes that, that accountability, that leadership. Newbin also brings a physical presence. And I said to him, I thought that was kind of an underrated part of his game. He agreed, he said. He thinks it's a forgotten part of his game, but he does always look to be physical first. Everybody knows he's a ball hawk. He had a lot of takeaways in college. I believe a school record for the Golden Gophers, 13 career interceptions there at Minnesota. But he said to me, I'm not going out there like, I got to go get a pick. I got to go get the ball. Usually the ball finds me. But when I get into my game, when I'm most comfortable, is when I lay a big hit on somebody or I'm getting physical and I get that little shot in early. I'd rather get the big hit because I'm at tone setter for sure. And I actually talked to him at length a little bit, even after the interview was over. I think Neubin believes people are sleeping on him. Neighbors is getting a lot of attention. Everybody's excited and obviously a lot of pressure on the Giants on Brian Dable and Daniel Jones and on the offense. But I think Tyler Neubin feels like people don't know what he can bring. And of course, it's a big match up against Justin Jefferson and the Minnesota Vikings. Kevin O'Connell, the head coach, a good schemer on the offensive side. So it's going to be a challenge. But I think Neubin is an underrated X factor in this game. And the last thing I would say is that Deontay Banks told me that the way that he feels he can take a step this year as a corner is it's not physical as much as mental, his mental aspect of his game. And that means reading offenses, their tendencies, knowing what certain formations are indicating, what that team likes to run out of that. Having situational awareness of the game and also of your opponent, their strengths, their weaknesses so that he knows what his alignment needs to be. And can play his game freely and fast accordingly. And I think it's no coincidence that Neubin is a guy who came in here knowing that it's his job to know his job, but also everybody else is on the field as well. He said that to me directly. Maybe I can help some other people understand their responsibilities as well as my own. And I think that this is a tandem that the Giants need to work together hand in hand to really be the type of secondary in defense that they need to be. Obviously only one year of NFL experience between them. So a lot of youth in that secondary, a lot of concern about how they'll hold up throughout the year, of course, back there. Adore Jackson brought in last minute to support and supplement that unit. But I think Neubin is an exciting player from what we saw from him. The second half of training camp when he got back from that early calf issue. And I think it's exciting that he has projected, expected from my standpoint to start in week one on this defense alongside Jason Pinnock with Dane Beltan limited and also Neubin coming into his own. I want to tell you about our sponsors that will get right into more Giants talk and to your questions and NFL questions even. As I'm sure some of you have one eye on this and one eye on Raven's Chiefs. As I do, I have the screen here, the simulcast going on. So any big developments there, we can also discuss about the game. Talking ball with Pat Leonard is brought to you by BoomChaga Mushroom Super Drink, a natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory, immune boosting antioxidants and heart healthy compounds. You can easily pour this natural liquid supplement into any of your favorite drinks. I pour mine in my coffee every morning and immediately feel the difference. I personally have felt a post-workout like energy boost with Boom. 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We've seen orders rolling in, so thank you to everybody for supporting the channel, supporting BoomChaga at boomchaga.com with that talkingball25 code or the QR code right here on your screen. And also to the people who have been ordering at estate98.com/talkingball. Remember, we're going to have trivia coming up here where whoever gets the answer correct first is going to win a free bottle of estate 98 coffee. Already have had four winners. I'm going to continue to see that rolling in. BetOnline also sponsors us, the world's most trusted betting platform and your number one source for everything football. BetOnline is every stat matchup and even live odds and spreads to bet on during the games. Think you know your stuff? Get in on our $200,000 mega contest and pick five games against the spread every week for your chance at weekly prizes and a share of $200,000. When the game is over, head on over to our online casino and get in on a game of Blackjack or Poker or Unwind with one of our over 150 slot games. Head to the website today to get in on the action. BetOnline, the game starts here. All right, here's the trivia question. We're going to start right off the top before we get into your questions, before we get into the fan and listener and viewer comments. We're going to start with our trivia question. So the trivia question tonight is, in the last five NFL seasons, there are three players on the defensive side of the ball with seven and a half sacks or more in the NFL. Who are they? Three players with seven and a half sacks or more in the last five NFL seasons, name them. The first person to name them in the chat will win a free bottle of a state 98 coffee. All right, as you guys think about those answers, try to figure that out and pop them in the chat. I'm going to tell you some notes and nuggets about what I see coming in this Giants game. First of all, something I thought that was interesting, Kevin O'Connell, the Minnesota Vikings head coach. In his third season as a head coach, this is actually the first time he will be coaching in MetLife Stadium as a head coach. Been a coordinator before, been an assistant coach before, but has never been on the MetLife Stadium sideline as a head coach. In 2022, he played the Jets once and the Giants twice, but he played them all out in Minnesota, including the playoff game against the New York Giants. So an interesting tidbit there that he's coming into an environment as a head coach that he is unfamiliar with to this point. Also very strange thing here, but this is only the second Vikings game against the Giants in New Jersey in the last decade. They beat the Giants 28 to 10 in 2019, October of that year, Kirk Cousins, and Adam Thielen doing damage in that game. But since from 2015 through this 2024 season, this week one opener for the Giants, only the second Vikings trip to New Jersey to MetLife Stadium to play big blue in this past decade. Very interesting there that it just didn't align differently. The Giants, of course, looking to have more success in week one at MetLife Stadium than they are accustomed to. They are four in 10 in MetLife Stadium home openers overall, and they are 0 and 5 in week one home openers at MetLife Stadium in their last five. The last time the Giants won a home opener at MetLife Stadium was 2010 against the Carolina Panthers. I had to do a double take as I was looking that up. I thought that was a stunning stat and one that really, really caught me off guard. Let's see if anyone has the answers. The trivia question, I see somebody asking me to repeat it. The trivia question is, three players on the defensive side of the ball with seven and a half sacks or more in the last five years. Who are they? I'm seeing some answers coming in, and they are not accurate. The question is, essentially, three pass rushers who have had seven and a half sacks each season in the last five seasons. There's only three guys in the entire league. Other stats and tidbits on the Giants that deserve to be covered, that have kind of been rolling in on the ticker as we sit here in week one and the NFL news cycle ramps up. Bobby O'Karrickay, middle linebacker for the Giants defensive captain. He had a contract restructure done by the Giants basically for operational money throughout the season. They restructured his contract to create four and a half million dollars in cap space. That was done basic accounting. You have to elevate guys from the practice squad. You have to operate your roster, have some operational money as you go throughout the season. So that was just based on necessity. At this point, the Giants doing that with O'Karrickay's contract. O'Karrickay, while we're talking about him, another stat that I thought really stood out to me that I think is worthwhile mentioning to the Giants fans out there. And that is that only six times since 1999 in the NFL has a defensive player recorded 140 plus tackles, 10 plus passes defended, and 10 plus tackles for a loss. The names on that list are Derek Brooks, Ray Lewis, Zach Thomas, Levante David twice, and Bobby O'Karrickay last year for the New York Giants. Super interesting to me there that O'Karrickay is on that list. And really, I think reinforces to me that while I know O'Karrickay is the type of player who you hope is backing up his 2023 season with the same type of performance in 2024. It's really surprising to me looking at, like for example, when Jeremy Fowler of ESPN who came on our podcast, when he did his list and polling the league about top 10 at different positions that O'Karrickay wasn't in there, wasn't mentioned, wasn't in that list. I thought that was a snub. I think this type of stat reinforces that. Bobbie O, 149 tackles, 10 passes defended, and 11 tackles for loss last year. An exclusive list, six players since 1999 have done that. Levante David, Zach Thomas, Ray Lewis, Derek Brooks, and Bobby O'Karrickay. Quite a distinguished list to be on there for Bobbie O. Also, Carter Coughlin, cut by the Giants. That kind of caught me off guard. Art Stapleton, a fellow beat writer for USA Today Network there. He reported that they are bringing him back to the practice squad, despite cutting him. That makes sense to me because Carter Coughlin has been practicing this week as a part of their core special teams unit, which we all know he's a part of. So I thought that was a little bit curious. Obviously, roster reshuffling. Maybe they're trying to get somebody up from the practice squad as well for the game or instead for the game. I'm kind of curious to see how that shakes out. Definitely has to be a disappointing development for Carter Coughlin. Obviously, players don't want to be cut in general, so that's disappointing, and that's an obvious statement by me. But I mean more so in the context of this is a player who last year, Carter Coughlin was the kind of guy who he was in a position on the roster, where he had played some snaps in the preseason on defense. And on the Wink Martindale defense, even though he had some good snaps in the preseason, once the regular season rolled around, he fell completely out of that defensive rotation and regressed to, as far as his usage, a pure special teamer, and he's good at it. But that he was a guy who wanted to continue to grow, wanted to get more opportunities on defense. So this is really have to be a bitter taste here for Carter Coughlin, where he's going from wanting more defensive snaps, wanting a chance to play on defense as an inside linebacker, re-signing here with Martindale gone, presumably because he thinks and has been told he's getting that type of shot or look on the inside, does some of it in the spring for the Giants, but then come August is relegated back to exclusively special teamer. And now as a former Giants draft pick cut and being re-signed to the practice squad, so can't be something that has been easy for Carter Coughlin to take here in Week 1. But definitely, in my opinion, far from the most noteworthy thing that's happened so far in the last couple of days in Giants land. And that is, and I see you all here, guys, get right to your question soon. We got D Kit. We got Chronicles. We got Barb. We got Hunter. I see all you guys here, Steve, et cetera. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for jumping in on Talking Ball Live here on Thursday night of Week 1. Really excited for everything that we're going to be doing this season. But definitely, the number one storyline to me is that Joe Shane got caught on a hot mic on hard knocks, talking to Chicago Bears GM Ryan Polls and saying, "Hey, it must be nice not having to look at and then making a throwing motion with his hands." And Ryan Poll says, "Oh, quarterbacks? Yeah, hopefully we don't have to do that for a long time." Of course, no surprise that Joe Shane is still scouting quarterbacks. No surprise that we know the fire is lit under Daniel Jones. The pressure is on internally, externally. We all know the Giants went and tried to draft his successor in the spring. And now they're continuing to scout these top quarterbacks. Now, Joe Shane was on the road on Labor Day weekend at several games, including Colorado's, Shadura Sanders playing their top quarterback prospect. The hot mic conversation that was caught on tape there between Shane and Ryan Polls was at the Georgia Clemson game, Carson Beck, top quarterback prospect at that game. So no coincidence there as the Kansas City Chiefs get into the end zone. It looks like Isaiah Pacheco in there and looks like they will be going up 20 to 10 here in the third quarter. But it's one thing for Joe Shane to obviously be operating as somebody who is trying to improve at any position that he can. And there's a lot of people who in Giantsland and the NFL who think that he should be trying to replace Daniel Jones. And he should be on the road understanding that it's incumbent upon him to go get his next quarterback now. So not blaming the GM for doing his job in that respect. The problem is that hot mic moment reveals that Shane is undercutting his own quarterback to other people in the NFL. And that it becomes public is the problem, right? Private conversations about what you think of players and their abilities. And honesty from executives is obviously welcome. But in that type of moment, your days away from your quarterback being in a position where he's playing for his career with your team and he already knows it. So the pressure is already on. But to have something like that become public, it becomes a headline on NFL.com. It gets aggregated by NFL.com, the league website. It's on hard knocks. He's saying it to the Chicago Bears general manager. Like this is basically the tone of that comment is, of course, that you have one and we're still looking, right? And so, you know, it's, of course, the problem is that it was made public. But it's not a good look. And part of me wonders what ownership thinks of that type of comment getting out because we all know that Daniel Jones is somebody that John Mara and the Giants organization have said they still believe in John Mara saying, let's give this guy a fighting chance. Let's give him the better offensive line. Let's give him more weapons. So interesting in the context of Joe Shane's off season, kind of putting himself on the line with the positional value argument at running back and say, quan Barkley, and now making this overt type statement that's caught on camera and on microphone about the quarterback that he resigned to a four-year $160 million contract, even if he's not wrong, not a good look. But of course, Daniel Jones and the Giants can obviously put a better taste in everybody's mouths by going out and beating Sam Darnell beating the Vikings, Brian Flores, Kevin O'Connell, and everybody wearing white purple and gold on Sunday. So I'm going to get to you all of your questions and we'll continue to talk some Giants football here on Talking Ball Live. Chronicle says, well, Pat, Giants have to win on Sunday to set the tone for the season and show us what they're about. Do they truly have the heart and giddiness that Dexter says they have? So I'll start with that. I think chronicles that the Giants do have confidence in themselves in their abilities. As I said, Tyler Newbin talking with a lot of confidence about himself and about his abilities and feeling like he's going to show people what he's really about. Malik neighbors not showing many nerves, even though there's a lot of pressure and expectations on him. And you know, going around the locker room, even like John Runyon Jr, you know, he had the shoulder issue, sure, he's playing through a little bit of pain there. But as Tim has your shoulder, he said, good, I'm ready to go. Andrew Thomas, by the way, just kind of a random comment here, Andrew Thomas has put on a lot more definition of muscle on his body in the weight room. He told me he kind of like gets at peace now when he's lifting. He really kind of uses that as like an oasis and a quiet time in his mind. And he really kind of has embraced that in the gym, in the weight room. I know the injuries bother him, like missing all that time last year really bothers him and nags him. So he's committed, he's always been committed a hard worker. But really excited about what I see. Andrew Thomas just, you know, he's already a big left tackle, a guy who towers over most people on the field, but has clearly kind of toned and honed his body, and is in the peak physical condition that I've seen him since he has joined the Giants. But yeah, the vibes are pretty high right now. There's a lot of excitement around the locker room and around the players, obviously Brian Burns, a player they're excited about. And Dexter Lawrence is a supremely confident player in person. I mean, he thinks and knows that there have been games where he has taken them over. He has dominated from the interior from that defensive tackle position game. So I think there's a lot of confidence and excitement in the locker room. Overall, in the organization, I think it's a little bit more of, I think it's a little bit tense in the sense that everybody knows what's at stake, right? Brian Dable knows his job is at stake this season. Joe Shane knows that if they can have a good enough season this year to get to next year, maybe they'll be in good shape, but they have to get through this season and they have to have a good enough season this year to demonstrate that it's headed towards progress in 2025 and not going the other way like it looked like last year on the defensive side of the ball. There's some intrigue and confidence there from some of these young corners and sec and safeties and players, but Mike McFadden may not play. They might have to start a late round rookie pick and Darius Musal at linebacker next to Bobby O'Karrickay. They know they don't have a solution yet next to Dexter Lawrence or behind him at defensive tackle. Still yet to be seen who's going to contribute there for four quarters in a regular season game against a running game like Aaron Jones and the Vikings are going to throw at them on Sunday. You know, there's a lot of nervous energy accompanying that excitement game is how I would say it. All right, he also asks, how does the young secondary looks? How does the young secondary look? Well, we'll get to that in a little bit. Let me get to some other questions and I'll come back to your other questions there, Gabe. Barb says tough sledding with a bad O line for any quarterback. Yeah, you're referring to Lamar Jackson and the Ravens watching them now. Lamar is still fascinated though, right? He makes a ton of plays. It's interesting to me watching this game, by the way, that Steve Spagnolo has kind of been okay with Lamar Jackson running underneath. Like he's sending the rushers. They're trying to get him and if they don't get him, he is escaping and getting some yards and getting out into space. But it seems like the Chiefs are trying to make sure they take away any big plays. They don't want the ball to go down the field. But you're seeing why Lamar is a two time MVP every time, every time, almost every time I watch Lamar, I am reminded of why, you know, at the beginning of the year, when we pick MVP candidates, right? Like this year, I pick CJ Stroud. But when you watch Lamar, it's always a good reminder, you know, that there's good and then there's great and then there's special and he's one of them. But that's a good point, Barb. It is tough sledding without an O line for most quarterbacks. Though you do see, of course, in this game, to your point, yes, there are plays where it breaks down and, you know, Mahomes gets hit, throws an interception. Lamar Jackson, not able to make some of the plays he's looking for because of the pressure he's facing with guys going in and out, injuries, rotating lime into different positions. But we also have seen plays in this game, where like Patrick Mahomes made that one escape to his right from the pocket in the first half and threw about like a 20 yard dart on the move to his right to Travis Kelsey, who shook his man on basically a scramble drill and made a huge play down the field on an eventual touchdown drive. Or you see Lamar Jackson using his legs and his vision to get eight yards on a play that should have been a five yard loss. And that's what you need from Daniel Jones, right, Barb? I mean, you know, you said it's easy to sit here and say, well, he's not Lamar Jackson and he's not Patrick Mahomes. And obviously, nobody thinks even if Daniel plays out of his mind on Sunday, he's not going to be those players. He's not Josh Allen. But you do need the quarterback to play a different game to play a game that he can at times, it's not going to happen every play, but at times he's going to overcome some of those deficiencies or those breakdowns. Now, last year was a good example, Barb, of there were just too many of them up front on the offense, on the offensive line. There were too many breakdowns for Daniel Jones really to even handle last year. He wasn't playing well either. But it can't be that consistent, because that's the point where it's hard to really pin anything on the quarterback, if everything else is breaking down as well. Hunter says, what's up with Mark Andrews? I don't think I've ever seen him just nonexistent like he's been likely likely has been Lamar Jackson's first or second read tonight. Well, I would say this, I think Andrews, first of all, is a better blocker than likely is. So, as I was just watching the Chiefs bat away a deep pass down the field for Zay Flowers. But Mark Andrews is a better blocker than Lively is. So if they have both of those guys on the field, Andrews is a player who, whoop, some of the props dropping behind me. Look at this. That's my old paper at The Observer at Notre Dame in St. Mary's. That's a story I wrote right there about Brady Quinn and Tyrone Willingham and the Giants and the Notre Dame fighting Irish offense in 2004. It's kind of a memorialized there. And yeah, first time that's happened. Gonna have to keep that a little sturdier. But to answer your question, have Isaiah Andrews both on the field. If one of them is staying in blocking or chipping before he goes out, that's gonna be Mark Andrews. And so that's part of the reason. But also, Hunter, it looks to me like Lamar Jackson has been looking downfield once and then coming back underneath to his backs and to those underneath reads. It looks like the defense is dictating that to him. I believe Steve Spagnolo is taking some of that away. I believe that's what I've seen watching the game. All right, let's get to Gabe, one of your other questions here. I'll pop back down and see if anybody got the answers to these questions. But let's see, Gabe also said, all right, lot of questions that need to be answered Sunday about this team. I want to see a Giants team that shows heart and passion because that's how we won in 2022. I believe this roster is better than 2022. That'll be an interesting thing to see because I think they do have some high-end players who are better than some of their top players at certain key positions compared to the playoff season. But on the offensive line, for example, having Feliciano, Nick Gates, some guys playing with some attitude and nastiness in that season. That's just a good example of tone setting and the type of attitude being difficult to play against. Having guys being a factor in that year, Saequan Barkley, for example, on that team really has the catalyst for that offense. You had a Dory Jackson play at a pretty high level that year when he was healthy. You had Julian Love on that team at Safety. Is this team better at safety with Jason Pinnock and Tyler Neubin than Xavier McKinney and Julian Love? It is impossible to look somebody in the face at this moment and say that this year's safety group is better than that year safety group. On the other hand, Bobby O'Karrickay, a better middle linebacker than they've had. A guard, of course, a John Runyon Jr. You hope your main aluminors and improved right tackle over what the Giants have had Evan Neal last year, last two years, that type of thing. But chronicles, I think what's really interesting about the Giants is there's a little bit of give and take there. There are some areas they look improved compared to 2022, and there are some areas where you look at the year two years ago and see why they won and why they started 6-in-1, how they did it, how they did it defensively. They beat this Baltimore Ravens team with Lamar Jackson with Wing Martindale's defense late turnover forced by Julian Love. That was a huge win, a big win. Are they a team now that could knock off a team like the Ravens like Lamar Jackson? Well, we'll have to see. All right, let's get to more questions here. We have Steve C says, "What's your prediction and stats for Daniel Jones in week one?" Steve, that's a really good question on Daniel Jones stats for week one. You know, let's, let's- Shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business. Shopify is there to help you grow. Shopify helps you sell everywhere from their all-in-one e-commerce platform to their in-person POS system. Shopify's got you covered. 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My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big row as man then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend my friends still laughing me to this day not everyone gets B2B but with LinkedIn you'll be able to reach people who do get a hundred dollar credit on your next ad campaign go to linkedin dot com slash results to claim your credit that's linkedin dot com slash results terms and conditions apply LinkedIn the place to be to be let's say this I'll say that Daniel Jones and the giants are throwing a little bit more especially in the second half maybe trailing the trailing in the game and I would say that he'll definitely be using his legs they'll be blitzing showing pressure he's gonna get have to get out and move I'll say Daniel Jones ends up with something like you know seven or eight rushes for 45 yards something like that no touchdowns on the ground and then I'll say he has you know 219 yards passing with a touchdown and an interception something like that you know I think it's going to be a close game I do think you look at the 41 and a half over under and the one and a half points that the Vikings are favored by I think that tells you what this game is going to be or what Vegas sees this game is going to be which is low scoring tight it's going to be one or two plays that decide decide the game I think I told you guys already on Monday I believe that this is like a first touchdown scored wins type of game I think Minnesota if it can dictate the game and prevent Sam Donald from having to drop back too often in obvious passing trailing situations and the Giants pass rush can't pin their ears back and go then I think Minnesota will have a much easier time if if they end up having to you know it'll be easier for them to hand it to Aaron Jones control the game and control and kind of protect Arnold from himself from being exposed to that pass rush and some some bad decisions then having to air it out drop back and letting Brian Burns Dexter Lawrence and cave on tibido kind of have their way and have ample opportunities because if you give them enough swings like they'll get the quarterback right so but those are my that's my prediction for Daniel Jones 219 passing a touchdown and a pick and let's say eight rushes for 45 yard or 48 yard something like that uh let's see will Adore Jackson actually play because we need him for whatever we can get from him so the way I think they're going to use him in week one to start is I still think either Cordell Flott or Nick McLeod is going to start on the outside opposite Deontay Banks I believe Adore Jackson is still being groomed and acclimated and kind of weaned back into the roles that they intend to give him probably down the road he I believe is going to factor on special teams uh punt return not but maybe not as the returner maybe as the vice like that's that's what he mentioned in his press conference right off the bat when he signed he said whatever they asked me to do I'll do I think they're going to have him play on special teams coverage return etc but even like I said not as a returner and then spot kind of uh support the defense as they need him if it's a really bad start for the guys out there maybe they run him into the game earlier than they would have intended but I do believe the Adore Jackson plan looks like he won't start early and right away and uh he will be a factor but but won't be like a starter or a 60 snap guy here but I do think the plan of course when you sign him like they did it looks like the plan will be to get him up to that game speed and that game ability of playing that snap level and once he's there that he will be the guy opposite banks so I think it'll be something that happens gradually I don't know how many weeks that'll take I don't know if let's say he let's say McCloud starts outside on Sunday I don't know if he has a rough first quarter if they'll throw Adore Jackson in and have him play the final three quarters or if he still has to kind of uh have his snaps managed I view it more as a managing snap situation um so I think McCloud and Flott probably a little bit like Daniel Jones as we kind of view him at quarterback it looks everybody like like McCloud and Flott probably have a little bit of a leash early on but maybe not a long one um as Adore Jackson now lurks on the roster poised to of course take that job when the Giants decide it's time for him to do that. Hunter Keller says what running back duo do you think is going to be more lethal? Saquon and Jalen Hertz or Derek Henry and Lamar Jackson who that's a really good question Hunter that's a really good one I think that the Baltimore Ravens commit more to the run than the Eagles do so I believe that in the end if both if all four of those players are healthy I do think it's Lamar and Henry on the ground now you know Saquon's explosiveness like his big play ability combined with Hertz's ability to uh to pull it on those read options and throw as well as get out on his own like I think that's an interesting potentially like more high end dynamic that could result in like let's say Henry and Lamar are are obviously just as dynamic and our guys who can get first downs and frustrate defenses and move the chains I think maybe the Saquon Hertz dynamic is one that more could send Saquon off the edge for 80 yards because Jalen Hertz kept the ball the last two or three times and now he gives it to him and all Saquon needs to do is make one move and he's out and he's in space and we know what happens when he gets in space right so I would say that that's an interesting one I think Henry Lamar Henry Lamar is probably the one that you take if you if you have to win one game I would think based on just how lethal they both are in different areas of the run game but Saquon Hertz are right are right there as well and I'm really excited to watch that Brazil game by the way Eagles Packers really excited for that one all right let's see who got our trivia question right three players with seven and a half sacks or more in the last five seasons all right we had a TJ Watt Miles Garrett uh Daniel guess no we had a Bosa Garrett Parsons guess no TJ Watt Dexter Lawrence Nick Bosa no let's see Nick Bosa TJ Watt as son Redick no Miles Garrett TJ Watt max Crosby incorrect oh it looks like Gabe has won again Gabe with the answer to our trivia question Miles Garrett Chris Jones and Brian Burns is the correct answer that's two straight chats Gabe that you have won our estate 98 sponsored trivia so those are the three players in the NFL who have seven and a half sacks or more in the last five seasons in the NFL Gabe don't forget to DM me whether it's on x Instagram whatever your address so I can get you your free bottle of estate 98 coffee I think you'll love it it's basically a half a month supply of an excellent coffee from El Salvador so I think you'll love it great job getting that right like you took a lot of swings you took a lot of swings but you got it but yeah thank you for everybody for being here we're going to continue through the through the queue here of questions this is of course talking ball live with Pat Leonard I'm the New York Daily News NFL columnist and giant speedwriter and we are hosting this on the believe network and on the PL on NFL YouTube channel if you're not subscribed already please do but thank you so much to everyone who has we have over 3,000 subscribers now and counting it's pushing towards 3,050 just after one more day 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it will also be popped into and popped on my podcast feed on audio so if you're subscribed on Spotify or Apple podcasts so if you don't if you're not subscribed yet on the audio version go to your app right now Apple podcast Spotify or whatever whatever app you use to listen to pods subscribe to talking ball with Pat Leonard and there you will get every interview I do with guests on talking ball with Pat Leonard and also every audio version of the talking ball lives that we do here so that's all we're doing also every week we are going to have former NFL wide receiver and Super Bowl champion Benny Fowler here on Mondays to break everything down with me so a Monday morning quarterbacking type review of the Sunday action and we'll go around the league will not just be exclusive to the Giants of course we'll cover that in talking ball live but Benny Fowler and I every week on Mondays you can count on an episode dropping probably early Monday afternoon should be good for while you're sitting there at work killing time ready to go or for your drive home or as you're sitting there after dinner to watch on the YouTube channel a review of all the all the action we've seen around the league talking about the big topics that are happening league wide the trends that we're seeing whether it's officiating you know what offenses are running wide teams aren't matching and meeting the expectations they had going in Benny is so smart and so savvy about kind of understanding the nuances of how the league works and cuts right through the BS to the truth he really is excellent and sharp and one of my best friends in this business and I'm really excited to have him involved with talking ball so regularly somebody who also really has helped me get this podcast off the ground so just like authentic giving back and having authentic on the channel and having a great collab there with someone who's another great content creator Benny Fowler another person who I'm grateful to for helping us continue to grow here more great announcements to come about talking ball with Pat Leonard as far as sponsors go as far as merch go goes but let's get back to your guys questions thanks again everybody who is here we're going to continue rolling okay Justin 1890 says Pat looking forward to your continued great coverage throughout the season thank you Justin Justin says what do you see is the biggest keys to victory for Sunday's matchup with the Vikings so Justin I think already I said I think the team that scores the first touchdown will have a leg up because of how it dictates how the game plays out so I think scoring first scoring a touchdown first I should say is imperative of course protecting the ball offensively from Daniel Jones's end not just from a game management standpoint and not wanting to give Darnell and the Viking short fields and more possessions but also we know how bad it could get the booze could get inside MetLife Stadium if we see a lot of turnovers if we see a lot of bad offensive play if we see bad quarterback play right like this is not the scenario the scene the place the location for a Daniel Jones meltdown right this is a pressure cooker moment there's so much riding on a clean game from number eight but an aggressive game as well and protecting the ball Justin is also crucial because Brian Flores is going to send the house he's going to bring the blitz he's going to send a lot of extra pass rushers and the Giants are going to have to keep Daniel Jones as clean as they can but also he's going to have to make the right decisions with the football and so those are things to look for I would also say Brian Dable how he manages the game right last year three losses in close games that the Giants should have won New York Jets LA Rams Buffalo Bills some critical moments of situational football that Dable and his team were unable to execute in critical moments things that they really have to have buttoned up this time around him as a first as a full-time play caller for the Giants now but also as the head coach on the sideline managing the game that process not only has to be buttoned up but in the key big pressure cooker moments Dable needs to be the face of calm reason and sound decision-making for the Giants something that did not happen last year and led to a lot of the kind of fracturing and negativity that we saw from from that Giants team so you know I would say scoring touchdown first protecting the ball Brian Dable game management and Justin also and you could listen at another point to my interview on Mike's podcast believe in Vikings on and you can listen to it on my channel if you subscribe to talk about Pat Leonard on belief or on a Spotify or Apple podcasts and that is both teams interior lines on both sides are areas that the opponent could theoretically exploit like Dexter Lawrence obviously is a premier player so you're not exploiting Dexter Lawrence but the Giants defensive line interior behind him is not proven or strong the Vikings interior defensive line is not imposing right Harrison Phillips uh Jerry Tillery some players who they're NFL players but are they guys that are going to push your interior offensive offensive line around you don't think so but you know the Giants of course their interior has to prove themselves right John Runyon Jr. Greg Van Rotten book ending John Michael Schmitz there they need to prove themselves and then so you know who wins that battle and then the Minnesota Vikings interior offensive line also not one that strikes fear in the hearts of opponents necessarily but in my vision in my opinion both the Giants and the Vikings need to find a way with those interior lines to try to take advantage of the opponent's D line and deficiencies in that area to run the football and control the game so Justin as much as I think most people are going to be focusing and you know for good reason obviously on guys like Brian Burns and cave on Thibodeau and you know you had Van Ginkle and um who was it Jonathan was it Bullard a Bernard you know coming for the Vikings against Andrew Thomas those matchups I think they're gonna matter on some third and longs and some key passing downs but I think the interior O line versus D line matchup is something that's kind of flying under the radar a little bit and I think both teams O lines can exploit the opponent's D lines in the run game there so I think it's it'll be interesting to see you know who's who's planning to do that. King Chris TV says I like that outside linebacker we got from Miami I am I gotta be honest I'm struggling to think about who you're referring to there Chris please let me know that uh because I know they've added several they've added several backers lately um but I'm kind of drawing a blank I mean we got Curtis Bolton he's from Oklahoma from California he's a linebacker special teamer we have Ty Summers a guy who is a practice squatter from TCU comes from San Antonio Texas originally uh let's see we also have hmm yeah let me know let me know you're talking about there interesting we got Bent Benton Whitley's another guy on the team uh where's he from Holy Cross Springfield Mass so yeah let me know what you're asking about I'll give you more information but I'm a little bit um I'm not putting two and two together there Omega says because of Daniel Jones health is why I think Joe Shane is out there looking I also think Daniel knows that for that reason Joe is still looking for that quarterback yeah Omega definitely all of that's true um you know I just think even though of course Shane's intent there is not to shove it in Daniel's face or in the public's eye because that's not what he's doing there but I think because it becomes public it's a bad look because you don't want people knowing that you're out there telling everyone yep still looking for a quarterback man wish I wasn't right um you know just not something you want out Chris says Daniel Jones needs to come out swinging I need to see like three passing touchdowns at least definitely a lot riding on what he does uh let's see Michael says they can say they believe in Jones but the reality is they don't believe in him and it's obvious Michael that's as that's as succinctly and uh accurately as I think someone has put it you're right I've been talking around it and around it and around it that's exactly the point they can say they believe in Jones but the reality is they don't at least based on that comment you know the general manager obviously sounds like he doesn't in that in that moment correct I mean it's impossible to interpret it any other way Steven says Pat as an insider do you know what people in the league thought of Dave Gettleman for real and do you know what it's thought of Joe Shane not sure if you're able to answer this just was curious and thought I would ask yeah Steven um Gettleman is was known as a guy who um was a lifelong scout I think both of them are viewed as really good scouts and people have questions about both of their general manager capabilities I that's that's what I would say I would you know to group them as into that answer I think you know Shane being young and still a first-time GM there's a little more leeway and rope of people saying like okay I can see what he's doing here let's see if this progresses let's see if um this this guy you know if this plan that he has in place if these puzzle pieces start to fit if he starts putting it together you know this you know some people in the league can see what he's doing from a standpoint of adding top players at key positions right edge rusher Brian Burns he already had the left tackle you already had the defensive tackle now he drafts at number one ride receiver right um so those are examples of that and then of course the quarterback is at least obviously we see in hard knocks the quarterback remains the missing piece so the missing piece would be either Daniel Jones turns into the guy they they thought he was and paid it to be or they go out and get another one um but Stephen you know one thing I would say for Gettleman his ego and arrogance just got in the way um you know internally the Giants building um was not known for a great work ethic um and was also somebody who I think was resting more on what he felt his reputation was uh rather than being somebody who was uh putting in all the time to drive the bus of course um you know you have to acknowledge obviously that with some of those high picks you know he gets Andrew Thomas, Dexter Lawrence, guys like that Joe Shane obviously still waiting on whether Cave Antibido, Evan Neal, you know Deontay Banks now we have Malik Neighbors in here even second rounders you go to Juan Dale Robinson, John Michael Schmitz right and now Tyler Neuben like Joe Shane is still in fairness to Gettleman we're still waiting to see if Joe Shane selected one great player out of any of them right we're still waiting to see if any of those guys become great whereas Gettleman drafted Andrew Thomas who is one of the higher paid left tackles in football and Dexter Lawrence who is one of the higher paid defensive tackles in football but you know Stephen to answer your question what people in the league thought of Gettleman was lifelong scout but not a good general manager and then obviously a lot of people were surprised no matter what people want to say that they took Daniel Jones there six overall and then as far as Shane goes you know I think he does have a reputation right now as somebody who is I don't want to use the word cut through it necessarily but you know he definitely has harsh and hard conversations with people around the league you know that are direct honest and even to a fault you know I think that the relationship building and maintenance element of the job that Joe Shane is doing it's not an easy one but you know you can burn bridges pretty quickly if you if people think you believe you know it all and that you know like agents for example players you know they matter as much and they talk as much you know as other executives people from other teams etc and if you burn people enough or handle situations in questionable ways that have people raising their eyebrows you can get a reputation as somebody to kind of look out for and watch and so some of those situations that got contentious or were mishandled by the organization with Shane here you know Nick Gates Sequan Barkley being a couple of them whether it was contentiousness or mishandling in those instances those are things that have people still looking kind of with a and I at okay where is this going to go from here right and certainly in hard knocks I think the Giants came off as an organization and Shane came off as a general manager who you know definitely what had the appeared to have the freedom to do things his own way and was definitely operating with a confidence and even at times a little bit of a swagger of believing that wholeheartedly that is the correct way to do it but then at certain times wondering if the process really was matching up with that confidence so whether it was his inability to fully understand engage the running back market even when he was receiving some advice of what it was going to be accurately with about Sequan Barkley you know kind of the misunderstanding or the surprise about how free agency was going to mean so much overpaying you know a lot of things on in in some of the conversations and the process of how they got to their decisions as in as a front office as an organization that people in the NFL had questions about and so as the Ravens drew within three but now the Kansas City Chiefs get Xavier Worthy the rookie into the end zone for the second time tonight so Xavier Worthy out of Texas the fastest man at the NFL Combine the fastest 40 dash in NFL Combine history I was there to see that in Indianapolis this past year he just had a walk-in touchdown his second of the night and the Chiefs look like they're about to go back up 10 Steven really good question OG knockout says what's good Pat as long as Daniel Jones is quarterback of the Giants I can't watch anymore Sam Donald and Daniel Jones are basically the same QB look up the stats and it will tell you everything you know OG it's interesting you put it that way about you know can't watch anymore because I mean I know exactly where you stand on Daniel Jones you've always made that very clear but I find it very interesting what this one game means for Daniel Jones right just the fact that the difference between him going out and throwing two touchdowns in the first half versus going out and throwing an interception in the first two drives right like think about how differently this this game and potentially the season could play out if just those two scenarios go one way or another because the crowd a lot not all the crowd but a lot of the crowd feels the way you do right then there's a portion of the crowd that says hey he's our quarterback you know we got to stay behind him we got to believe in him it's either him or this season's going in the in the dumps and that side is is right in that respect too but I just find it so fascinating how much is connected to you know a bad mistake a big mistake early from Daniel in a game like this what that could mean for Brian Dable what that could mean for Daniel Jones what that could mean for Joe Sheen and the organization you know I really think it could get it could be a fun great day at MetLife Stadium on Sunday or it could get ugly fast right the Giants of course haven't put Daniel Jones on the field in front of their fans since last season's injury right the only time he played this year was their second game in Houston on the road so this is going to be the first time he's playing in front of the Giants full stadium of fans so really fascinating dynamic that we're about to see play out here. Stephen also says Pat when drafting a quarterback how much do you think is how much do you think that the organization and situation factor in development for example the Giants drafted Josh Allen would he be the quarterback he is today and vice versa with the Bills and Daniel Jones. Great question Stephen it's impossible to say that it doesn't have an effect you know I think Bonix Sean Payton for example right now I watched Bonix several times in person in the in the in the offseason during the scouting process at no point did I think he looked very good but we saw his college career we saw him at Oregon we saw how many passes he threw all his his production there he goes to Denver and suddenly the news coming out of there is whoa sounds like this kid looks pretty good sounds like Sean Payton has him moving up the depth chart now he's the starting quarterback you know could he have had the same amount of success if he went to Shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business Shopify is there to help you grow Shopify helps you sell everywhere from their all-in-one e-commerce platform to their in-person POS system Shopify has got you covered Shopify helps you turn browsers into buyers with the internet's best converting checkout 36 percent better on average compared to other leading commerce platforms and sell more with less effort thanks to Shopify magic your AI powered all-star what I love about Shopify is how no matter how big you want to grow Shopify gives you everything you need to take control and take your business to the next level Shopify powers 10 percent of all e-commerce in the US and Shopify is the global force behind all birds Rothies and Brooklyn and millions of other entrepreneurs of every size across 175 countries plus Shopify's award-winning help is there to support your success every step of the way because businesses that grow grow with Shopify sign up for a one dollar per month trial period at Shopify dot com slash Westwood one all lowercase go to Shopify dot com slash Westwood one now to grow your business no matter what stage you're in Shopify dot com slash Westwood one my dad works in B2B marketing he came by my school for career day and said he was a big row as man then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend my friends still laughing me to this day not everyone gets B2B but with LinkedIn you'll be able to reach people who do get a hundred dollar credit on your next ad campaign go to linkedin.com slash results to claim your credit that's linkedin.com slash results terms and conditions apply linkedin the place to be to be how many you know let's let's put it this way how many of the 31 other organizations could go next have gone to and had the same early development and developmental curve and success as he's had under Sean Payton leading up into the regular season I think you could answer that question too which is that what we know the answer is it's certainly not all of them right it's certainly not all of them you know I think mostly at this point Stephen you look at some of these offensive coaches you know Kevin O'Connell Sean McVay Kyle Shanahan Mike McDaniel down in Miami Sean Payton in Denver right those are just some I'm just throwing out there offensive coaches who call plays and have a track record of developing or enhancing quarterback talents right and I just think those types of coaches don't necessarily grow on trees and it is a it is a thing Stephen that going to an organization and a situation factors in you know another good example would be maybe Daniel Jones like for example you know this year the fact that everyone's pointing out accurately like that this is by far the best skill position group receivers wise that Daniel Jones has worked with in his NFL career and it's taken how many years since he was selected in 2019 for that to occur his best weapon the entire time has been a running back largely obviously Darius Slaton's been a very good player with him but Saquan Barkley the running back has been his primary weapon up until this point now if Daniel Jones goes to a place where for example Josh Allen got Stefan Diggs a couple years into his career there with Daniel Jones's career have taken off a little bit more at that point versus waiting for this year the the define the defined you know pivotal maker break year to have a number one but he's a 21 year old who is playing in his first NFL game and one of Daniel Jones been his biggest games of his NFL career situations do matter organizations and their support all of that quarterback do matter you know I don't think if Daniel Jones was in Buffalo with Brian Dable those years I think having a Stefan Diggs would have helped I don't think you know Brian Dable developed Daniel Jones into Josh Allen in that scenario I mean we've literally now seen Dable coach Daniel Jones and they're still trying to turn him into that type of quarterback or have him blossom into that kind of quarterback had some success in 2022 but a lot of it obviously was focused on the run so I hope that answers your question but yes the answer is yes situation and organization factor big time another great example would be Drake May of the New England Patriots right now he gets drafted by New England instead of them trading back and letting the Giants take him now in New England Drake May I saw him in that preseason game when Jacoby Prasek got hurt he came in earlier than he was expected to and Drake May looked good right but what was concerning about watching him in that game he had offensive linemen stepping on his feet getting run over free rushes coming at him and it looks like the kind of season where if Drake May does play ample snaps for the New England Patriots he's going to be in a position where it's going to be tough sledding it's going to be tougher him to stay healthy it's not an ideal situation and that's putting it mildly for a rookie quarterback to go into so Stephen I think it'd be fair to say that if you and I wanted to put a bet right now on which quarterback even with JJ McCarthy's knee injury that has him out for the season if you and I were to put a bet right now on which quarterback was going to have a better developed metal curve and more success JJ McCarthy despite that injury with Kevin O'Connell in Minnesota or Drake May in New England with Gerard Mayo as head coach who would you take right and regardless I think of what you think of each player McCarthy and May I think it's pretty obvious the answer is McCarthy because of the situation he's going into um you know because of the situation he's going into with that coach and with that offense all right nice swig of water there I got my state 98 coffee over here remember estate 98 dot com backslash talking ball special buy one get one free deal on a delicious coffee it's good ice-tore hot also sponsored here by boom chaga mushroom super drink and natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory immune boosting antioxidants and heart healthy compounds you can easily pour this natural liquid supplement into any of your favorite drinks I put mine in my coffee every morning and immediately feel the difference I personally have felt a post-workout like energy boost with boom chaga also has the ability to lower boost inflammation and improve immune and heart health with its beta gluttons and antioxidants go to boom chaga dot com today to place your first order and if you use the discount code talking ball 25 or access it through the QR code on your screen you will get 25% off your first subscribe and save order right now that means a month's supply cost you only 30 dollars start filling the difference today at boomchaga.com so that's boomchaga.com go to the subscribe and save order order one with the talking ball with pat Leonard code talking ball 25 or the QR code that you see here on your screen and you'll get 25% off that's a great way the best way right now to support the talking ball with pat Leonard YouTube channel and podcast here on the believe network is to buy a bag of boomchaga and try it out I have seen some sales rolling in and really appreciate that from everybody chronicles actually asked after he got a second straight trivia question correct I will send you my address do I get two bottles of a state 98 now yes of course you do Gabe you got last chats question correct first and you got this one correct first so you get two bottles of a state 98 coffee come in your way you didn't send me that address yet so the first one didn't go out but that's actually good now because two will be coming in that package and so you'll get a month's supply of a state 98 coffee Gabe congratulations rolledy what's going on great to see you thanks for being here thanks for being in the chat drop those questions in there I would love to answer whatever you have going on whatever you want to know about this team and about this matchup oh gee says pat I know Daniel Jones hasn't had the best old line with his time with the Giants but if you look at the year Eli Manning won his last Super Bowl the line was good enough look it up so I looked it up the line ranked 31st in 2011 and Eli Manning and that defense still won the Super Bowl yeah not always fair to just to compare everything to guys who win Super Bowls when really we're just looking for a quarterback and Daniel Jones here to make you know just to make consistent plays and win games but your point is taken oh gee your point holds and that reinforces kind of what we were saying earlier which is as Barb was saying you know it is hard to survive behind a bad old line for a lot of quarterbacks for most quarterbacks but if you want to be a top quarterback if you want to be somebody that an organization can plant their flag and say this guy is our franchise quarterback then you know you need to at times overcome your team's deficiencies your aligns deficiencies a broken play and you just need to make a play yourself hunter Keller says what is a realistic season for Malik neighbors you know hunter I think like okay so Garrett Wilson for example Garrett Wilson's first two seasons all right I like looking at his stats here because this is a player who's played with you know less than ideal quarterback situation so far right but has been a great talent an exciting talent clearly a great play right so he's had 83 catches for 1,100 yards and 4 touchdowns and 95 catches for 1,042 yards and 3 touchdowns now I think if Malik neighbors plays a full season you know it is definitely realistic for him to get to that catch range you know to get to the 90 catch range to get to you know 1,200 1,300 yards and to get to six touchdowns right like I think that's a reasonable expectation I mean one thing you know maybe we're underselling him here I mean one thing that stood out to me in that preseason game in Houston was that the Giants offense started with a sputter obviously they had to pick six they had another interception by the end of the first half neighbors still had something like 5 or 6 catches for 56 yards or 58 yards or something crazy like that so that told me that you know this guy could get his even if the situation is not ideal he could still end up with some pretty big numbers hunter says is Theo Johnson the rookie tight end out of Penn State going to be the main tight end target for us this year or is it by committee I do think he will be the most commonly thrown to tight end in the passing game hunter I think you're right about that but they are all going to be used and utilized on the field it appears that top three of Chris man hurts Theo Johnson and Daniel Bellinger you'll see them in the back field providing max protect in certain situations you'll see them in the back field and then moving back in line you'll see plenty of two tight end sets with both with two guys on the field at once one shipping and going out on a route one just running her out or both staying in the block for Daniel Jones to take a deep shot definitely heavier personnel I think coming on offense from what we've seen from the Giants particularly probably in this game specifically to address and handle encounter what Brian Flores is going to throw at them one thing I think that stands out uh to me coming out of this week so far and we still have one more Giants to practice to go as we sit here on September 5th and talk about Giants Vikings previewing week one but Brian Dable made a point several times the other day when he was talking about Flores's defense of mentioning that this is not the same Vikings defense we played two years ago it was like he wanted everybody to know I know everybody remembers us scoring a ton of points against the Vikings two years ago but it's probably going to be a little more difficult this time around so I thought that really cracked me up but it is true it is going to be more difficult for Flores knows Brian Dable well and it also is a very good coach so it is going to be tough on him and then but yeah to answer your question Theo Johnson I think main tight end target in the passing game King Chris says Theo I think is a sleeper pick yeah you know he he was showing towards the end of training camp and the pre-season Theo Johnson in the second half I would say he was really struggling with um with with drops he was dropping passes you know maybe a little bit of a rookie wall as far as the workload he was handling um so you know they have some rest days here leading up to week one so we'll see how that goes but um you know some hands issues from Theo Johnson late in the preseason and in camp we'll see if that crops up again or not um but definitely something to watch there Chris says Daniel Jones needs to watch Patrick Mahomes film after this game tonight yeah well Mahomes the thing about Mahomes is that he just marries his understanding of the game to his physical abilities to the point where he just plays the position differently than anybody else like that's the part of it is like he's unique both mentally and physically Chris also says we lost the bills game because of that missed pants interference call no Chris come on I mean you know that did look like a call that you know should have been made right I totally agree with you on that but let's be honest here at the end of the first half where the Giants get down on the goal line and end up the clock runs out with them getting no points like that type of situational football mistake right like this is that's how you lose games right like those types of things tight games close games the defense basically had Josh out in the bills in a blender for most of the game and the Giants could barely score what was it 14 to 7 so yeah no that was I hear you on the missed call but that wasn't why they lost the end of the first half is why they lost let's see Isaiah likely is nice yes he is um let's see Evan what's going on Evan great to see you he says hey Pat is there a good chance the secondary can create some turnovers Evan Tyler Newman I think gives them a chance to be pretty good at that you know he is a rookie so there will be some growing pains there as well but he does take the football away he did that for as a I believe what five-year player in college at Minnesota for the Golden Go first um you know that said you know Jason Pinnock is more of a an athletic blitzer um then uh I mean now he did have a pick six right for what 106 yards or 103 yards in Miami um so he can be a ball hawk at times but um you know he has not shown himself to be the type of ball hawk that say like Xavier McKinney was that was uh when he was healthy or like he was in that two interception game against the Eagles last year right and then Deontay Banks can make plays on the ball um but uh you'd like to see more of that and also at the other cornerback position I actually think Nick McLeod like I think the Giants secondary should give Nick Mc-- like they Shane Bowen should give him opportunities in coverage like if you throw a 50-50 ball to Nick McLeod he's long um he's a he's a big long corner with instincts when the ball is in the air I think he can go win those I think he deserves that chance I think he should start in this game that's my opinion I think he deserves it but Evan to to be totally honest with you going up against Sam Darnold a guy who has who will give the football away if you confuse him and pressure him I think that it'll it'll really depend on the Giants front four and their pass rush I think if they get to him and they speed Darnold's decision making up and they get him off his spot then I think you're talking about secondary forcing turnovers and those guys kind of jumping the ball and uh finding their way to the football turnovers and setting up the offense in favorable situations if they don't pressure Darnold then I think it'll be harder their play they'll play more zone this year than they did last year and I think they're going to be in more positions to be looking at the ball in front of them and keeping the ball in front of them rather than in man-to-man situations but you know if if Bowen can disguise coverage is well enough that's one thing we don't know that's an unanswered question and unanswered question is whether Bowen can disguise and attack schematically also to give those guys that type of advantage Omega says thank you gotta go as always love the show thank you so much Omega for being here and thanks for saying that really appreciate that um let's see oh geez says Daniel Jones hasn't thrown three touchdowns in a game since his rookie year good luck with that Steven says um God Sunday has to be better than week one last year left pretty much after half time yeah no that was that was an all-time uh stinker that game so I agree with you um let's see Hunter says Lamar is so fun to watch especially healthy there is no doubt I totally agree with you there um there's nobody like him uh let's see oh gee thinks the Giants should get Hendon hooker and still draft a quarterback in 2025 looks like the lions like what they see in hooker as a developmental backup though as well Hunter says the Bills game still would have had to score uh that Bills game still would have had to score the TD to win it yes exactly for sure and really it's just about um you know that the point about those close games is more about situational football and about an understanding of how those key moments if you lack execution in those moments it costs you it's about it means wins and losses because the reality of the situation in the NFL and and for the Giants too especially teams like the Giants and even a team like the Vikings on Sunday these are teams that are going to play in a lot of low score and close games and so you know the one or two key big decisions or plays whether it's a mistake whether it's a turnover whether it's a penalty or it's a it's winning a one-on-one battle all of that is going to you know those little things those one or two seemingly little things those are going to decide these games and so you know that's something to keep in mind keep in mind when you evaluate Brian Dable and you evaluate how he's operating on the sideline and what type of job he's doing both as a play caller and as a head coach you know when it comes to putting the Giants in the best position to win because the fact of the matter is you know the first season the way that Dable and Martin Dale schemed games to let's say attack opponents weaknesses and also conceal their own and play to their own strengths that was a major part of why they made the playoffs why they started six in one why Dable one coach of the year but last year and even starting in that playoff game in in Philadelphia the year before a lot of concerning kind of uh trends and mistakes and uh and moves developing and in those moments and I think from Dable's end like in front of evaluating the coach standpoint and let's be honest this coach is being evaluated under a microscope right now organizationally just like the quarterback is at the moment that's something that Dable really needs to get a handle on and needs to improve in this season Evan says Dable has to be a smart coach like he was in 2022 yeah definitely and I think you know I think one thing Evan that I'm really interested in monitoring is you know Shane Bowen we know he wasn't the Giants first choice as defensive coordinator we do know he has Brian Burns added but a lack of depth at inside linebacker some concerns at corner and a lot of youth on that defense right he's got some high-end talent and players but you know Martindale augmented a defensive unit that was lacking in certain areas and personnel okay so Ken Bowen do that because as a coach like you know listen if you have great players usually people think you're a better coach than when you have bad players and they see your product on the field so having great players or good players helps for sure but you know you're going to get exposed in the NFL if you're not somebody who is on the attack or at least able to anticipate and cater your game plan to a specific opponent and and kind of put them at a disadvantage right attack their weaknesses like the way that we've seen teams in the past there've been times when the Giants have had you know a pretty good defense and then the slot corner is not a great player and the defense the offense comes right out they see him there and they throw they throw it to the slot receiver for a 12-yard game right like it only takes one weakness out of 11 on the field for the offense to attack you and exploit you so you know you're right is debul but not just debul but his staff he and Bowen in that game plan it needs to be buttoned up it needs to be it needs to be tight it needs to be together they need to complement each other and they need to be on the same page about how they can win this game there has to be a governing philosophy when they walk into a game like this of how we intend to win it that's what that's what they need hunter says i'm kind of shocked bills didn't get try to get Isaiah Hodgin's back this year after we cut him on cut down day i am i was surprised about that as well hunter guy who can make touchdown catches right barb says couldn't be happier might calf get is no longer calling plays well that's an that's interesting barb so barb what did you what did you not like about calf is play calling what do you think debul will be better at as a play caller than calf kid because to me you know i'm sure there were situations that like well we know there were situations where debul took play calling away because he didn't like how it was going he felt like he could do it better gave it to shay tyranny and dallas so definitely obviously the coach was upset with some of that play calling and with the offense and was trying to take it into his own hands at times plenty of times but i'm curious like specifically in this matchup for example like they could go out against the Vikings team that they scored a ton of points on in the playoffs in minnesota and what if they go out today or or this week on sunday a week one of 2024 and only score 13 or 14 or 17 points you know with brian debul calling plays um i think as much as debul got this job because he was a play caller as much as brian debul uh his bread and butter is play calling as much as we know that it's really what he enjoys doing best it's how he connects best to the team to the players and all that um do we know that in this current dynamic as the head coach with this personnel do we know that that's going to augment and improve the team well it needs to right they have no choice debul has no choice and i've said many times before i don't blame him at all for taking play calling over full time this time because frankly with your job on the line you got to lean into what you do best you got to lean into what you think will make the best case to uh case to save your job of course not good precedent in how he handled everything last year uh with the coaching staff um obviously a surprise that kafka is even still here based on how debul handled it and handled him uh but you know now they walk into week one with the head coach calling the play is kafka kafka up in the box and uh not even fully clear what all of his game day uh duties and responsibilities are of course he's complimenting debul on kind of identifying how the Vikings are playing them and working with with other people up in the box including you know there's always um some scouting presences up in the box with the coaches there as well um you know charting and uh evaluating and and kind of tracking what the giants are running what the Vikings are running on defense and so they can try to situationally in the second half pivot off of that so there's kind of game monitoring and um you know kind of stat tracking and things like that going on but still not extremely clear what exactly uh kafka is doing like what his primary responsibility is on game day now that debul is the primary play caller of course kafka had never been on the sideline he's always been coach um he was always calling plays from up top but it's interesting that now even not calling plays he's still not down on the sideline um let's see hunter says mohomes just maybe saved the game pass got batted down and he caught it it would have been maybe 60 the other way yeah now as we speak la bar Jackson and the Ravens are driving to try to tie the game under two minutes left in the fourth quarter 27 to 20 Kansas City and Baltimore with a second and two at their own 21 Lamar back to pass flushed right scrambles right gets past the edge gains a first down and does a spin move out of bounds just inside the 30 five yard line for a first of Baltimore on the move exciting stuff talking ball live Thursday night football week one is here we got what eagles packers coming up in Brazil Sao Paulo and by the way how about that story with Darius Slaton Giants wide receiver going on social media on X on Instagram and telling people to leave him alone because he's not Darius sleigh he's Darius Slaton clearly he's getting a lot of hateful messages from people in Brazil because Darius sleigh the eagles corner said on a podcast that he wasn't excited about going to Brazil uh because the eagles have been told basically stay in your hotel you know don't uh what was it don't go walking with your cell phones out in your hand in the streets maybe don't go out at night things like that and so uh looks like a lot of hate was going the Darius Slaton route on social media so the Giants receiver trying to say please chill out and get out of my mentions uh so that was pretty funny to see Slaton kind of point that out on social media um Hunter says for us to show improvement where do we need to be in terms of scoring offense no lower than top 20 or top 15 or what is the bar to keep their jobs uh Hunter I think on offense the way that they show improvement you know how much improvement do they have to show here's what I would say if you're consistently competitive that is an improvement from where they were last year so last year we know I think it was something like they scored two offensive touchdowns in like a five or six or seven week window something something crazy like that um where the offense was just never scoring touchdowns they got a couple defensive touchdowns they got some field goals they were shut out by the Dallas Cowboys obviously they had the Arizona game sprinkled in there but by and large um I did yeah it was something like five straight losses with two total touchdowns and those five losses I think it was um Lamar Jackson flushed back to pass he's rolling he's scrambling he gains another first down and makes two chiefs crash into each other trying to tackle him he's like Gumby out there man it's it's insane you know what's crazy Lamar Jackson the only person I've ever seen move like him on a football field is Kidarius Tony like when you see Kidarius run and make people miss and how he jukes the only other person who does that is Lamar like it's hard to explain it's almost like um a fluidity to their suddenness if that makes sense and it's also like a slipperiness that allows them to go into traffic but not take a big hit necessarily now Lamar is better at that than Kidarius and obviously Kidarius can never stay on the field always as injuries right but you know that that quality it was just always so interesting to me that a player who did not um you know come to fruition as a first round pick for the Giants and I believe is still a free agent right the Chiefs cut him and then um the Seattle Seahawks brought him in for a workout but didn't sign him I believe interesting story actually Kidarius Tony I was in the Chiefs locker room after they won the Super Bowl and Kidarius was sitting there at his locker dressed because he was a healthy scratch for that game and I said hi to him he said hi to me but I asked him if he would talk he declined an interview and then I find out from some people texting me that as I'm standing feet away from him talking to somebody else he just went live on Instagram and was you know talking trash and saying stuff and uh defending himself and so there I was uh trying to get the quotes but um he was he preferred to just go on Instagram and do it but you know the year before when they won the Super Bowl he was very gracious um and he I was he was a big part of that he was very gracious in the locker room after that talking about it so I was grateful to him for that was obviously in a difficult position last year but super awkward to be in a winning Super Bowl locker room and not really appear to be in a good mood right that's pretty weird uh let's see Hunter says uh my home is just maybe oh let's say he said that already uh oh he said Pat I want you to call a game on Fox NFL someday I'd rather listen to you than Joe Buck I appreciate that you mr. Keller thank you for saying that yeah hey I can do some play-by-play I used to do like high school play-by-play play-by-play in Philadelphia some st. Joe's prep football you know Strider says yo Pat just got back excited for week one been dealing with 100 degree I guess fever for almost a week and it won't end till Tuesday oh 100 degrees out in okay today was 115 degrees in California no way come on Strider are you kidding me 115 degrees dealing with 100 degree he for almost a week and it won't end till Tuesday my goodness wow you know it's interesting it's just Shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business Shopify is there to help you grow Shopify helps you sell everywhere from their all-in-one e-commerce platform to their in-person POS system Shopify's got you covered Shopify helps you turn browsers into buyers with the Internet's best converting checkout 36% better on average compared to other leading commerce platforms and sell more with less effort thanks to Shopify magic your AI powered all-star what I love about Shopify is how no matter how big you want to grow Shopify gives you 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slash results to claim your credit that's linkedin.com slash results terms and conditions apply linkedin the place to be to be getting it's just starting to be fallish here in New Jersey oh man the Ravens are in the red zone under 20 seconds to play Lamar just missed likely in the end zone incomplete likely is now down and banged up oh man likely looks like he's heard he might have like separated his shoulder or something bad news there oh man 10 seconds left Ravens down seven Isaiah likely writhing on the turf right now don't like to see that wow what a catch by Rashad Bateman to get them down there too holy cow great finish here for Chief's Ravens so um so Strider yeah really excited he says um let's see what Strider says he says I hope Daniel Jones has a good season for me Pat Daniel Jones can't play scared he can't be scared to make mistakes as long as he stays aggressive and plays fearless I am fine yes Strider you know what you know what it is he does play aggressively by by nature and his default is to play aggressively what happens is when if he gets confused or tricked by a coverage or by a scheme or he gets pressured and into a different type of read or decision than he was expecting and he hesitates that's when it looks like he's like as you describe playing scared it's not scared it's uh kind of like a panicked indecision it's um it's making uh the wrong decision in the moment as he's flustered if that makes sense so I know you and I are talking about the same thing but I always tell people like who don't watch him a lot like if they say what do you think of Jones or what should I be looking for I'll say what when you watch him drop back to pass if you see him hitch right if he looks at a quarter if he looks at a wide receiver and he hitches or he pulls the ball down he looks and then he starts kind of hesitating and and turning and kind of stuttering his feet right then the play what look out it could get ugly it could get bad it could get uh it could get worrisome for the Giants it could be a turnover right those types of things when he can drop back plant his foot in the ground and rip it with that aggressive confidence that you're describing he's a good player and he's the player that they feel like should be worth that 40 million dollars that they paid oh my goodness Lamar just threw a pass right past an open Zay flowers flowers didn't sit in the end zone and Lamar Jackson thought I guess he was going to sit but flowers kept running um as we do this talking ball live with Pat Leonard here on the believe network on YouTube oh my goodness he just no he completely missed him he just completely missed him oh brutal miss holy cow brutal miss usually if you miss it a layup like that you don't make it the next time the Ravens do have more time on the clock five seconds left usually though if you have a bunny and you miss it you're not getting another chance it's like in basketball you miss a layup you still get your own rebound but now when you go back up there's somebody waiting for you to block it into the seats right all right there he is back to pass he's stuttering Chris Jones pressuring him he throws into the end zone and it's caught for a touchdown holy cow Isaiah likely back on the field after getting hurt two plays ago catches a touchdown in the back of the end zone and Harbaugh is saying they're going for two Harbaugh is saying that the Ravens are going for the win here after likely caught this touchdown what a catch what a throw wow there looks like he's toe tapping right against the line what a finish here in Kansas City to open the NFL season man what a game what a sport love it all right um let's get to the next question a2z me what's up good to see you it says another midnight chat let's go a2 thanks for being here no Mets what's going on great to see you no Mets says chat what's up yep no doubt let's see um what else do we got here Hunter says I can't believe Daniel Jones is the only NFC quarterback to beat Lamar well and also think of it this way the only defensive coordinator to beat Lamar Jackson and the NFC was Wink Martindale right likely toe is out of bounds on the replay I don't think it's going to count it's not going to stand the Ravens are going to lose oh my goodness brutal brutal for Baltimore what's he going to say yeah out of bounds yep game over chiefs win oh my goodness what a finish all right let's see Hunter says when you when this when this talking ball blows up like crazy you're going to be calling games with Brady Hunter I hope so man from your lips to God's ears as they say no man real NFL teams yeah you know what it is it starts with the quarterback positioning and having elite playmakers at QB right that's where it starts um and then with those elite elite playmakers at quarterback um you know then you can overcome deficiencies right like they showed a stat tonight that Jawaan Taylor um from the Chiefs was penalized something like 17 times last night or last season and it was the highest of any player in the NFL they won the Super Bowl right so Jawaan Taylor highest most penalties of any player in the NFL last season individually was their starting right tackle and the Chiefs won the Super Bowl so to your point about looking like real NFL teams I always tell people about this I always say this to people about like Lamar Jackson and about a lot of the better players better quarterbacks MVP candidates etc they don't play perfectly they just make the plays to win right so like my home's through a bad interception tonight but he scored 27 points in his team one right so like Daniel Jones in his career there have been games he's made mistakes but has also made plays in one but like usually too often when the Giants make mistakes at snowballs when Jones makes mistakes at snowballs you can't let it you got it you it's not going to be perfect it's not going to be perfect if you make a mistake you can bounce back from it but the Giants haven't shown ability to do that Jones hasn't shown an ability to do that in enough right so hopefully they can let's see yeah you can only wish the Giants look half as good says no Mets yep no doubt yep looking forward to to a fun game on Sunday strider says I also feel like Daniel Jones does does go through his progressions but it's not fast enough at times he has to know if a player is open pull the trigger yeah you know it's it's one of those things strider where dable sometimes or kafka in the past whatever sometimes they have schemed him in a way where you can see where the read is where it's going and it's like Daniel knows exactly where to throw the ball what the defense is going to be and where it's going to be open and why and when but you know it can't always be them scheming the defense you know into a disadvantage the quarterback has to put the defense out of the disadvantage with his play a2z me says play by play pat i like that nickname yeah let's go that was a crazy finish though that was awesome um let's see Barb says the Ravens are never going to beat Kansas City they have to feel like that at this point right after that brutal way to lose says no Mets no doubt strider says pat be honest i know it's early if Daniel Jones doesn't have a good season do you think he'll be back no no definitely not i think strider that it's trending you know very strongly to him not being their quarterback next season i think look we talked earlier in the chat about i know you popped in out of the heat and i hope you're cooling off now out there in cali strider coming back from that uh but i think that um you know Joe Shane's comment to ryan polls on hard knocks with the Bears it did he didn't intend for that to be public on a hot mic but his comment to ryan polls they're getting public that reinforces what the Giants organization really is thinking or what the general manager at least is um is really thinking about the quarterback right they are aiming to replace him they do not believe at this moment that they can sit there and say confidently looking in someone's face we have the quarterback position solved now of course easy to say that but you paid the guy forty million dollars on a contract extension um so it's not like you hadn't a judge previously that he was this type of player right um so they did pay him they did believe in him they did put their faith behind him but in the end we see based on of course the structure of the contract gives him the out after two years but also those comments they've made recently strider plus they're out there scouting quarterbacks again already uh all points to the fact that you know Daniel Jones's time in New York will is short at the moment if he does not play out of his mind this season and validate that contract no med says look how Lamar had to play and they still lost Daniel Jones not making plays consistently um let's see strider says do you also think Daniel Jones have some sort of success running the ball the reason why he had 700 yards rushing was because of saquon barkley we won a lot of the games because barkley was running well I think that's a great point I do not think Daniel will be able to get outside and run the same way as he did in 2022 when they had barkley as that running back option I do agree with that strider I think there was so much focus on saquon and that's why I really do think people are it's a wait and see approach about how this offense is going to look and how they're going to be defended but I think it's a great point you make there which is you know teams had to stack the box against saquon barkley and the Giants teams had to uh pay attention to number 26 in fact to me looking at them letting saquon barkley sign in philadelphia and draft and leak neighbors forget about whether you wanted barkley or you didn't whether you wanted him gone or you wanted him re-signed whatever or you're opinion him as a player the fact that he attracts defenses attention and attracts more numbers down into the box is critical because if you add Malik neighbors and you also have that running back there saquon barkley in the backfield you can hopefully continue to unlock Daniel Jones as a runner and also force the defense to make a decision on either your running back or your receiver right instead of adding neighbors to saquon they replaced saquon with neighbors as a top weapon so you're not putting defenses in the same kind of conflict that you would have been if you kept 26 with I guess now he's number one on the field on the outside so that to me from a team building standpoint from a standpoint of you know Daniel Jones are we are we uh are we giving him everything the best chance to succeed like to me that would have been the best chance to succeed a to z me says I really have known I have no real expectations from the Giants this year mostly because our quarterback one is still a question mark like painting the exterior of the house when the foundation needs work still excited though let's go yeah how do you guys see this game working out on sunday do you think the Giants will win this game against the Minnesota Vikings or are you expecting them to lose to a Viking team that has Justin Jefferson Aaron Jones right some good players but that is quarterbacked by Sam Donald curious what you guys think let's see strider says you are correct if we somehow kept Barkley defenses would need to rethink about stacking the box I totally agree yeah and that and strider that's that's that comment is based on that comment is based on talking to people around the league throughout these years that the that the Giants have been facing you know teams around the league about how they were defending them how how you could attack them how the Giants were attacking them like there were teams that even when the Giants were a bad team you know you would hear from teams about how how hard Dexter Lawrence was to stop on the interior of the offensive line how tough Saquon Barkley was to handle and how he gave them fits and how he would be the best player on the field in a lot of games when they would face him and things like that and so you know that's uh that's something to that's something to remember that's something to note yeah by the way I I I I'm getting texts similar to yours who was it Hunter earlier or somebody earlier said can't believe that the Giants beat Baltimore two years ago go with Lamar Jackson that's that is definitely a thought crossing a lot of people's minds watching this game how did the Giants do that? Mark says Pat what would Daniel Jones have to do to remain Giants quarterback in 2025 in terms of stats and or wins is he out no matter what no I mean listen as much as as much as clearly the GM is still out on the road looking for his replacement and the pressure is on internally in general John Marron ownership like they believe in Daniel Jones they paid Daniel Jones they're not giving him 40 million dollar years just to wait till next season to draft somebody like if he has a good season mark then he's not going anywhere right what exactly does it need to look like I think I think being in competition for a playoff spot in December now that doesn't necessarily mean that they're winning nine or ten games but I think it means being in a position going into December where the Giants feel good about their offense and they feel like they have a chance to compete for a postseason spot down the stretch that's what I think he needs to do I think if it falls short of that and it's you know rough season where you win some games late to finish with six or seven wins or you know up and down where there's like like last season the first two weeks right Dallas 40 to nothing lost where the offense looks inept and the team looks inept and then the next week you know you have this incredible half of football and you score 31 points and you win you know they don't want to see up and down and up and down and up and down right because we know that ultimately and this doesn't go for the Giants just this goes for any team out there I mean if you get a lack of consistency and you go from good to horrendous football and back and forth like that's not a recipe for success that's not what you need from your franchise quarterback right so as far as stats goes mark I think you need to see a significant amount of touchdown passes right you need to see him increase his touchdown passes while not increasing the turnover numbers right the fumbles in the pocket when he was younger all those fumbles as he was standing back there when he was throwing more touchdowns but staying back there and taking more hits you know from a stat standpoint let's let's look at his career numbers and I can give you a kind of a better point I think I think the the win total I would say I would say they to me I think they would have to at least be around 500 you know with Daniel Jones playing well like let's say he plays well and they're 500 in part because their young defense is really struggling like that's obviously one way that he could still stick around even if they don't have a great record so yeah his stats so far so rookie year 3,000 yards 24 touchdown passes 12 interceptions the next year 2,900 yards 11 touchdowns 10 interceptions the next year 2,400 yards 10 touchdowns 7 interceptions the next year 3,200 yards 15 touchdowns 5 interceptions and then last year of course got hurt so I only ends up with 909 2 touchdown passes in 6 games okay 2 touchdown passes in 6 games and 6 interceptions you know I think I think by and large like he obviously based on his numbers he's only been over 15 touchdown passes in a season one time you know I think you're looking at a quarterback who you need him to be ideally I think you'd like him in that you know 25 touchdown passes you know 10 or under interception range you know I think that's asking a lot based on what we've seen from him and from the Giants offense in his career right it sounds unfair but like that's true based on the numbers we just read out loud as as we were talking about earlier Daniel Jones had obviously a lot of rushing success two years ago with 120 attempts 708 yards and seven touchdown rushes in that playoff season I do think their their offense is going to have more of the you know run based kind of drag route to wide receivers element you know I do think as much as there's been so much talk about pushing the ball down the field I do think they're going to try to replicate some of the 2022 strengths that they were able to generate because I do think Daniel Jones you heard Tim McDonald say it himself in that hard knocks episode Daniel Jones needs a running game right and you know most quarterbacks do but Daniel Jones needs a running game so I think a running game both from your running backs and also from him himself but let's say let's come up with a number that would be good I'd say you know basically so in 2022 with the seven rushing touchdowns and the 15 passing he had 22 TDs you know I think like that shows you that and that listen that was not a really good offense either right that was still a low scoring offense that was supported by a really good defense and so I think I think you're looking at a minimum you know to say that he had a good season I think you're looking at a minimum 25 touchdown passes but obviously if he gets to 20 that's high for what his career has been but I think you'd say 25 touchdown passes hopefully getting to 30 total including rushing or in that area and then keeping the turnovers down while you're doing that you know and this is just answering your question about what statue'd like to see for him to kind of validate right. Strider thinks the Giants will beat the Vikings but Flores their defensive coordinator from the Vikings will bring pressure he's aggressive not like Wink but he's aggressive. Michael says Jones will throw five picks so both people seeing pressure and both people seeing it working out differently. No Met says QB1 is not a question. Daniel Jones isn't the answer. Evan says it's going to be a close game. I can't remember the last time the Giants won a home game in their opener. Giants 21 Vikings 17. Yeah it's funny you say that Evan because I don't know if you're here at the beginning but I was reading off some interesting stats and the Giants are actually 0 and 5 in their last five week one games at MetLife Stadium. They have not won a week one game at MetLife Stadium since 2010 against the Carolina Panthers. That is really a heck of a streak. They're 4 and 10 in home openers at MetLife Stadium so that's your answer. I agree it's going to be around that area. I think the pick I made on Mike Wobskull's podcast was 21 20 Vikings which actually be really tricky because in on a lot of sites it's one and a half and 41 and a half for the spread and the over under. So if the Vikings one by one the Giants would cover and it would the under would hit so that would be very tricky not not a very fair prediction for me but you know that's that's possibility. Let's see right Julian Love and the first and the interception that's how they beat Baltimore no doubt. Let's see I expect the Giants to win which means they'll probably lose the game and lose ugly says no Mets. Michael says if we are if our O line holds up we will win and our D line gets pressure. Yeah I agree that pressure from the defense is extremely key. I think the pressure from the defense is the deal and that's why I think getting Minnesota behind in the game forcing Darnell to drop back more than Kevin O'Connell would like putting them in obvious passing situations. I think you have to try to force it into your D line dictating the game. If you can't do that and you're trailing and they're able to run the ball out and control it and your offense isn't moving the ball then that's the recipe for losing. Let's see by the way one thing I wanted to note Tyrone Tracy running back all the running backs really I do think are going to factor into the return game kick returns maybe punt returns as well at times like we saw in the preseason a lot of the running backs doing kick returns there was Devin Singletary back there there was turbo Miller back there at times you know Tyrone Tracy got got some run and Eric Gray as well listening to Michael Goebrile the special teams coordinator he mentioned like running backs ability to be natural runners and break arm tackles so I do think running backs as well as of course we know Gunnarals Juski is in there as the punt returner if he's playing and available and you know you have to imagine him factoring as well in the kick return game possibly at times as well but I do think running backs look for running backs to factor in in the return game Tyrone Tracy possibly and punts down the line we will see let's see Hunter says I wish he had another year with Shurmur on Daniel Jones yeah you almost wish Pat Shurmur offensive coordinator not head coach Mark says thank you Pat grateful for your reportage always appreciate your observations all the best to you this season same do you Mark thank you so much for saying that Evan says 2010 Giants won their last home opener against the Panthers that's right exactly right nice nice research there Evan uh let's see Figo says why can't Giants look like good teams for once that's their aim that's their goal that's what they're trying to do interesting taught to players this week I mean this really was a much stronger training camp um than the Giants are used to than a lot of the players there have ever had um it was grueling it was different than what Brian Dable has done in previous years these last two different one than what the Giants organization obviously kind of on or off the record preferred coming out of the Joe Judge regime but looks a lot a very Joe Judgeish uh this training camp um you know that was something that was blamed on a lot of injuries in the past and now um is is uh the giant way again so that's interesting to see um but you know definitely Mark I think the team is trying to and Dable is trying to get his players and his team as physically prepared as they can for right off the bat they know that week one is key they know it's critical they know because of their um they know because of their schedule that they have to win these games early listen to this actually this stat on not stat but this alignment so we know that the Giants need this game right the Giants need this game because they play Minnesota they play the Washington commanders on the road and then their schedule goes at Cleveland verse Dallas at Seattle verse Cincinnati verse Philly at Pittsburgh right not a lot of breathing room there for a team trying to get its footing that is still in a kind of build mode right however if you think that's bad listen to the Viking schedule after this Giants game they go home and they host the San Francisco 49ers then they host the Houston Texans then they visit the Green Bay Packers then they host the Jets then they have a buy and then coming out of the buy they host the Lions and then visit the Rams talk about a brutal schedule for Minnesota but what that schedule tells me as badly as the Giants need this one holy cow the Vikings look like they need it even worse based on their scared right I mean what a schedule they have it's insane so both these teams I think playing with a healthy amount of desperation right off the bat and obviously you're always playing the wind and playing you know hard as these teams anyway but for you know dable sake for the coaches sake for the team's sake um the way their schedules are lining up they really need this one Strider says Pat I do feel bad for Mike Kafka not calling plays while he does get the blame the injuries to the O line and coaching was just not good and it did not help hope dable calling plays works out yeah it's also just right it's it's a crazy situation because he gets blame he gets this kind of a new title and probably some extra money with it to essentially keep quiet and stay in the building rather than being allowed to leave and go to Seattle to be the offensive coordinator so a really crazy situation transparently kind of optically driven but Kafka going along with it obviously which is pretty ridiculous all right let's see all right believer says that sucks for Carter Coughlin no doubt yeah that does even if he is you know back on the practice squad and active on game day has to be a real real real shot you know not only to not only to Carter just as a player but also I mean you know this is you know this is just a player who thought that last year he deserved more defensive snaps and now he comes back and resigns and he gets some of it in the spring but then turns out they're not even they don't even have him on the active roster now so brutal um believer also says Joe is not a smooth operated operator at all NFL for Joe Shane means not for long Michael says I want to see Tracy as a returner I'm interested in seeing him or as a running back to you will see him a good player we'll see I'll be interested to see how much they use him on that ankle obviously he was he he averted disaster with the ankle as it looked when it happened I don't know if he'll be like limited at all in this game I mean he's not listed it is limited he's not listed on the injury report they like him a lot as a runner I like he falls forward he's a strong player you know plays with a lot of strength plays with pretty good leverage for a rookie only thing I saw pop up in camp was early on a little bit of ball security stuff early like very early in like late July early August so hopefully he gets that cleaned up he did get it cleaned up for the rest of camp so I didn't really see it on the ground after that Strider says Pat do you know who said players come and go but expectations never change we always expect to win um that sounds like was that Joe Shane or John Marra it's a good question Tom Coughlin oh I like that quote I like that quote interesting well done Strider love that good drop he says a keen nix was a rookie he called a TD from Eli keen nix had great leaving ability oh great player believer says agreed on Daniel Jones he handled the barkly thing in a very awkward way as well um how many yards does neighbors have this weekend says Michael that's a good question I'll go with let's say um 81 81 as I'll say 81 receiving maybe maybe like seven rushing does he get a TD I don't know I think that'll probably determine whether they win or lose is whether Malik gets a TD right that because I think this probably is a game where the Giants and the Vikings each score probably two touchdowns max so I'd say if the Giants get in the end zone the most likely guys get in the end zone are probably Shopify is the global commerce platform that 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com slash Westwood one all lowercase go to Shopify dot com slash Westwood one now to grow your business no matter what stage you're in Shopify dot com slash Westwood one my dad works in B2B marketing he came by my school for career day and said he was a big row as man then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend my friends still laughing me to this day not everyone gets B2B but with LinkedIn you'll be able to reach people who do get a hundred dollar credit on your next ad campaign go to LinkedIn dot com slash results to claim your credit that's LinkedIn dot com slash results terms and conditions apply LinkedIn the place to be to be the neighbors um Devin Singletary maybe Tyrone Tracy if they put them in and goal line and short yardage um but uh probably neighbors Singletary and then you know Theo maybe Theo Johnson as a as a tight end right or Daniel Jones running it in would be the next one uh but yeah I think it's going to be an exciting uh atmosphere it's going to be fun I think it's going to be weird seeing the Giants in these uniforms although I know a lot of people don't agree with me on this now I don't like I don't like the century red uniforms like the jerseys and everything the helmets are cool the players like the helmets as well uh but I will say this you look at these players wearing these red jerseys in practice like just the straight red to prepare for the game to me the Giants look awesome and red I know blue is their color and their big blue and all that I think they look awesome in red I think it's their best jersey I'm not saying they should wear it all the time but I like it I also like the white color rush as well uh which I think they're not wearing this year right because of these century reds but I really do like the straight red and I know even John Mara on down um you know they have bad they have bad luck they feel like and bad fortunes in those red jerseys so they try you know they basically aren't excited or interested really in wearing them again anytime soon but I think they look great I think seeing them on the practice field was a reinforcement of like these things are awesome let's see Michael says how many games do the Giants play in the new uniform I think they said at most two right and at least one so they're gonna play this first one my guess is if this week goes well they'll put it on the schedule for another game and if this week doesn't go well then that'll be it that's my guess right I can they've left the door open to wear it another time but it's not definite I think it's really just going to depend on whether the vibes are high coming out of this game or not by the way if you weren't aware the Pepsi gate is gone I don't know how much that has to do with medium Pepsi gate but it's no longer the Pepsi gate it's the Moody's gate so that's something interesting as well guys talking ball with fat lender is brought to you by the boom chaga mushroom super drink right here over my shoulder a natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory immune boosting antioxidants and heart healthy compounds you can easily pour this natural liquid supplement into any of your favorite drinks and put mine in my coffee every morning and immediately feel the difference I personally have felt a post-workout like energy boost with boom chaga also has the ability to lower cholesterol reduce inflammation and improve immune and heart health with its beta gluten at antioxidants go to boomchaga.com today to place your first order and if you use the discount code talking ball 25 or access it through the QR code on your screen you'll get 25% off your first subscribe and save order right now that means a month's supply cost you only 30 dollars start filling the difference today at boomchaga.com also brought to you by a state 98 coffee and bet online estate98.com/talkingball is the website to go to to get a special buy one get one on a state 98 coffee makes a great iced coffee in 10 seconds or you can make a hot coffee or latte in a minute more great product gabe giant's chronicles want a second bottle of the state 98 tonight by winning the trivia question seven and a half sacks or more the last three years only three players miles garret chris jones and the giant's own brian birds hobby says i believe that the giants will start the season two and oh hobby we will end talking ball live with patlennard on that note with the vibes high thank you everybody for being here thanks for a great chat a great night we've gone two hours strong if you are listening on audio on apple or spotify please join us next time on the youtube channel pl and nfl but also thank you for listening here on audio on the believe network uh look for gary meyers podcast interview talking a lot of eli manning hall of fame look for my interview on mike wobskels uh believe in vikings wabi and i talk about this week one match up and really get into breaking it down he gets a lot uh he gets into a lot about the vikings roster and depth chart and how it stacks up with the giants and we bat that back and forth about kevin o'connell and how maybe he will attack the giants and what are the primary kind of areas to watch and look for when you're examining and watching this game and also remember sunday after the game giant's vikings post-game live talking ball with patlennard post-game live from the met life stadium press box we will come right out of the locker room i'll come out of the locker room after talking to the giants players ryan day ball all the coaches and getting insights on injuries updates on the players what they feel about their win or their loss and also spinning forward to the next week's game against washington and also dropping in some context from around the league after paul post-game live on sunday monday we will be coming back in with an early afternoon episode me and benny phaller uh super bold champion former nfl wide receiver broncos giants several other teams that knee and i will break down the action throughout the league so looking forward to all of that and more thank you so much for being here everybody um thank you especially to chronicles uh michael omega strider a to z me mark with great questions and opinions and feedback as well hunter really driving the chat early on as well barb thank you thank you for everybody who's been a die hard and uh see you next time on talking ball live at your job do you ever have to deal with a nose roller how about a snub bully well if you're installing a new conveyor belt system dealing with the different components can sound like you're speaking a foreign language luckily you've got a team ready to help grangers technical product specialists are fluent in maintenance repair and operations so whenever you want to talk shop just reach out call click granger.com or just stop buying granger for the ones who get it done here in america work is in trouble we've off short our manufacturing send away good jobs and lost so much ability to make things american giant is pushing back against that tide they make high quality clothing for a summer ward robe you'll love all made right here in the usa support america's workers and get 20% off your first order at american-giant.com with code staple 20 that's 20% off your first order at american-giant.com code staple two zero then go all right phil we're recording now so it's live go ahead pick on me the way that you want to did i say that i would say that to my son and i mean come on man just go this isn't CBS all right be quiet for a few seconds why would people want to listen to the sims complete podcast well a couple things one if you like to see sons pick on their father this might be the place if you want to see a place where the father just kicks he out of his son this would be the place how what do you like about it man ditto father son dynamic duo talking about the game of football that we love and share and appreciate together and you know hey it's an extension of what we did right growing up i i was able to watch my father play football then obviously watch him as a broadcaster and then he taught me the game of football and share the wisdom that he learned throughout his playing career and uh you know hey sometimes we're full of it and sometimes we we actually know a thing or two well we do do a lot of research at least i do i'm you you little spotty but you know you're you hang in there it's fun i love doing this and it's been awesome sims complete check us out wherever your podcasts are available on the believe network appreciate it see you if you like the show please take a moment to rate review and subscribe it really does help the show to grow thank you for listening [BLANK_AUDIO]