Willie sits down with Larry David to talk about a life in comedy, the bittersweet end of his iconic series, "Curb Your Enthusiasm", and why he decided to cast Willie himself in an episode of the final season. (Original broadcast date April 7, 2024)
Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist
EMMY NOMINEE: Larry David
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Learn more about Tramphia, including important safety information at Tramphia.com or call 1-877-578-3527. See our ad in Food and Wine magazine. For a patient's prescribed Tramphia, cough support may be available. I'm a cleaning lady, a single mom with three kids, and an IQ north of 160. So helping the cops solve a murder is literally the easiest part of my day. ABC Tuesday. The series premiere of fall's most anticipated new drama, High Potential. That big brain of hers is going to help us close out a lot of cases. Caitlin Olson is a new face of investigation. You're a single mom pretending to be a cop. I am not pretending. I'm just out here super-capping. High Potential. Series premiere Tuesday, 10/9c on ABC and stream on Hulu. Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit Down podcast. My thanks is always for clicking and listening along. I am absolutely thrilled to bring you this treat this week. My conversation with the one and only Larry David, as you may have heard by now, his iconic series "Curb Your Enthusiasm" coming to an end after 12 seasons spanning 24 years. You started the show in the year 2000. Most people didn't really know who he was at that point. We knew he was the co-creator along with Jerry Seinfeld of Seinfeld. We knew he was a brilliant writer and comedian, but then he stepped out to play this character that he says is a heightened version of himself. He says he's not this bad in real life, but as you'll hear in our conversation, he kind of copped to this being who he wishes he could be, but due to social norms, he's not allowed to be in real life. I'm not going to do a big wind-up. You know who he is. I felt so lucky to sit down with him. This was three days before the very last episode ever of "Curb Your Enthusiasm." I should point out for the purposes of the conversation, Larry surprised the hell out of me about a year and a half ago and called and asked if I would appear in an episode. So I did have a role in episode four. Some of you may have seen it titled "Discruntled." I played myself where I interviewed Larry, who'd become kind of a liberal darling for something he'd done. I don't want to spoil it if you hadn't watched. I went and interviewed him and things. As you can imagine, went south. It was a thrill to be on the inside to see how that show was made. It's true. There are no scripts. It's true. It's ad lib. It's true. Even if you're not an actor, say you're a news anchor, they just expect you to go in and mix it up ad lib with Larry. It was such a blast. So we got together at a place called the Producers Club, which used to be the improv where he got his start in the mid-1970s in stand-up comedy in a very Larry David way. So we're sitting on stage in that very theater having a great conversation about the end of "Curb Your Enthusiasm" and so much more. Larry David right now on the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Larry, thanks for doing this. Oh, you're quite welcome. That did not sound sincere. If you could get anything sincere out of me, more power to you. We've already covered a lot of ground here. Bathroom visits. There's been a lot that we can dig deeper into. But before we start, I want to establish where we are right now. Not this room necessarily, but this building, which is kind of where you got your start in comedy at the improv, is that what you say? Yes, that's where I bombed hundreds if not thousands of times. This is early days. So there's a slight PTSD factor here. Sure. I'm already hearing. Get off the stage. Hey, hey, you're funnier than this guy. Yeah, you stink. Go to hell. You know, that's what I have to put up with. This is early 70s, right? No, mid 70s. Okay, mid 70s. So you come in the story. You know, 7 to 75. Yeah, 75s. To 80. And then 84 to 89. Yeah. But you came first to see a show, I think. Yes. If I'm wrong. And you looked up and you said, I think I could probably do that. Yeah, I was watching. I came to see a comedy show. Yeah. And I was with my friends and I'm watching these, you know, I'm watching the action on God. I was funny. I don't know what I was thinking. And so I left, I left my seat. And I walked, I walked inside and I said, who do I talk to about going on? You know, and they said, Oh, that guy over there. And that guy was Bud Friedman, the owner of the club, a legend. And I walked up to Bud Friedman. Now, this is a Saturday night, a packed house. This is this is insane. Okay. And I said to Bud Friedman, can I go on? And he said, who are you? You know, and I said, well, I'm in the audience, watch the show. He said, are you a comedian? I said, no. He said, you can't go on. No, you can't go on. You got a audition in this whole process. I said, Oh, oh, okay. Yeah. And so that was kind of the beginning of it. He says, this is not an open mic night. We're not just take a number and do five minutes. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And the people who were on were good comedians. They were professionals. Right. But still, you thought you were a little bit. I thought I thought I could do it. Yeah. So when did you actually get up on the stage for the first time? You remember a couple of, maybe two months later in Greenwich Village, it'll be a place called Folk City, Gertie's Folk City. I think Bob Dylan started there. Yes. He did. So I found out from someone who actually did it how to go about how to go about this, you have to write material. You don't just walk up. And so, okay. So I said about the business of writing material. I didn't know anything. And it was really dreadful. It was terrible. I'm so glad that's not on video. I could never go outside again. It was so bad. But yeah, I went up. So I did it. I went up once. And if you go up once, that's all you need. And then you could keep doing it. That's what they say, right? If you go up once, it goes even okay. You hear some laughs, you go, okay. This is something. I want more of this. I want to feed this. Well, here's the thing. There was nothing I could do. I was zero. I've been out of college for four years. I couldn't do anything. I had no skills. I didn't want to do anything. I didn't want to work. I didn't want to job. I just wanted to play around. Just have the same life I'd always had. Why is my life have to change now that I'm out of college? It's not fair. And so I wanted to keep the same life that I had. And this seemed like the best way to go about doing that. What were you doing at the time? Were you driving the cab? I drove a cab. I was a chauffeur, a private chauffeur. Is this the bra salesman era? I was a bra salesman. Yes, that's the bra salesman era, right? As it's known. Yeah. We did that on Seinfeld when George became a bra salesman. Yeah. Is that a door-to-door operation or how do you sell the bra? It was a store-to-store thing. On lower Broadway, there's a lot of stores and they sold bras, but my bras were seconds. I had a bag of bras and I'd go into these stores. I didn't sell one bra. It was ridiculous. They were seconds too. They were irregulars. They had threads coming out of them in holes. I don't understand what I was doing. So now this all makes more sense. Okay, I'm going to go do comedy. None of this makes any sense to me. This is not gratifying. I don't like this life. Yeah, I don't like it. And my parents are very, very concerned and worried. Right. As well, they should be. Look at this guy. What's going to happen to him? I would hear over here conversations. What are we going to do, Morty? What are we going to do? He doesn't know what he wants to do. And so my mother encouraged me to take a civil service test. Desperate, desperate for me to be a mailman. That was like her dream. Steady job. Yeah, a dream scenario working for the city or the government, whatever. That's what she wanted me to do. You got a pension. She would hammer that home to me every single day. And finally, I took the civil service test and I think I flunked. It may have been on the same time as a Yankee playoff game. So I'm not sure I was concentrating. Yeah. In fairness, you were distracted. Yeah, I was distracted. Yeah. So you never tried being a mailman. That was out. No, I didn't fail the test. That's it. Yeah, that was done. Yeah. You've talked about your, it's so interesting, someone as funny as you are, talked about having really no interest in being a comedian when you grow up. It just wasn't something that was on the radar for you, right? Growing up under the belt Parkway in Brooklyn. No, I love comedians. I love watching them. But I mean, well, I didn't think I was capable of doing anything. I really have a very low opinion of myself. The fact that this has happened to me is miraculous. I can't even believe it. Because if you knew how I really felt about myself, then you would understand. No, how can I do anything? And I was raised that I couldn't do anything. I was told by my mother, you're not special. That's what she told me. So that kind of stayed with me for some time, you know? And that's a way of staying with you when you hear that from your own mother. No, I just, I just couldn't picture myself being anything of a success of any kind. So it's not that you didn't dream of being a comedian, that you didn't dream of being anything. Yeah, I didn't dream of being anything, right? Yeah, right. So a cowboy maybe. It's a cowboy. Yeah, I thought cowboy. I like horses. Yeah. If you thought mailman was a bad fit for you, cowboy, really. I guess I wouldn't think that was going to work. But I do remember when I was a kid saying, what are you going to be? I said, I think I'm going to have a ranch. Really? I do remember saying that maybe when I was 12. I don't know. Yeah, so I went up in Brooklyn. Yeah, so we're out west. Yeah, because I did like horses, I love the westerns. And we did go horseback riding and at Bergen Beach, I think it was called. Yeah. And one time the horse just reared up and just, I couldn't, I didn't know how to ride, I was holding on to the horn and the horse galloped back to the stable. And I was holding on to the horn and somebody was screaming and being, Donald, on to the horn. What are you, what are you supposed to hold on to? What the rains, the skimpy rains? I don't think so. Yeah. Anyway, you survived it, though. I survived it, but you didn't get the ranch or maybe you did get a ranch. I don't know. No, I never got no ranch. No ranch. So let's talk about what's happening three days from now, as we sit here, which is the last ever episode of Kirby enthusiasm. I think I know the answer to this, but is there any shred of sentimentality that comes with that for you? Maybe a shred, the slightest shred. Well, nothing's really, nothing's really hit me yet. So I can't say, I can't say that I'm sentimental about it. We started in 2000, 24 years. I'm kind of old. Yeah, it's old. I'm old. Let's not beat around the bush. I'm too old to really be on camera every single week now. It's just, I'm to act the way I do on this show. How long you want me to do it? How can I continue to act like that? It's insane, as an old. I could do it in my 50s and 60s, and to mid 70s. I'm not going into the 80s acting like that. It's crazy. Why? People love it. They want to see it. They want it forever. It doesn't matter how old you are. I don't know. 24 years, we've seen it. Also, you want to go out when you got everything going for it, when the show has everything going for it. I'm always concerned that the following season, this season's been so good, in my opinion. I don't know. I think it's been good. Does that mean I'm my bragging? No, no, no. I'm not a braggard. I affirmed it for you. Yeah, I don't want to brag. I'm not a braggard. I'm a modest person. Yeah, there's always the concern that, well, you're not going to be able to top this. And then people are just going to start to hate the show. It's not as good. And having that going in my head, I couldn't live with that. Your colleague and director and writer, Jeff Schaeffer, really Jeff Schaeffer, who you've worked with to Seinfeld Days has said, going back several seasons, you guys have kind of made the finale of those seasons episodes that could stand as a series finale in case you didn't decide to keep going. Yeah, well, the season before, season 11, I was in the pool at the end as the for the last shot. And so I conceivably could have drowned, but I'm not going to kill myself off. But it could have ended it. I could have ended it in season four. No, five, the kidney transplant season. When I went to have it, yeah, I could have ended it there. And then you got thrown right back down. I got thrown back down. Yes, at the pearly gates. Yeah, they rejected you. They didn't want me down. Which raises the question, is there any chance in your mind if this is not the end of kerbier than these? No, no chance. No chance. Yeah. This isn't like a Tom Brady, Michael Jordan. No, leave the door open kind of thing. Yeah, no. No, the door is closed. The door is closed. All right. Now you're making the, now you're upsetting me, Willie. I'm trying to draw out some sentimentality. Leave me alone. What is it about this season? Do you think that has been so special? Because I do agree to you, it's always the writing and the situations you put yourself in. But the casting, myself, not include, but no yourself. No, yourself, but the big casting. I didn't mean to walk into that. You walked into it and I'm staying with it for a minute. You were fantastic on the show. A natural, you could be an actor if you wanted to easily. By the way, you know, it's not that hard. You give it a line. You say the line. But you made them up. You made up your line. Well, that's the beauty of the show. The reactions are real. And everyone, since that has come out, has asked me. It's not really scripted, right? Yeah. I don't know. There's a general direction of where we want to go and where we need to end the dance, the plot. But it really was just that kind of interaction, which has always been. That's what makes it so much fun. I can't get through these scenes. The actors and the cast, they kill me. I couldn't imagine ever having more fun in my life than I did doing that show. Yeah, it was so much fun. Well, I felt so privileged to see that from the inside because people think, "Oh, Larry's grumpy, the character," and all that. I go, "No, if you were there, Larry cracks up constantly in such a great way because it keeps it light and loose and made me comfortable, for sure." But you guys are having as much fun on that set. I can attest as it appears you are. I mean, the situations are so stupid. They're so silly. You have to laugh at it. I don't know how you get through the screaming matches with Susie. There's one near the end of the season, which is one for the ages when she's upstairs and you're on the landing there. Yeah. I don't know how you get through those without just dying laughing the entire way. Well, what I do is I'll start to laugh and then I'll hold my hand up so everybody knows that I'm trying to get my composure back and then we continue. Yeah. The other thing I loved watching was the way you guys work together and Jeff and your writing team, which is we'd be sitting here doing the mock interview and Jeff would come over and you guys would huddle for many, "Oh, that's good." In real time coming up with that kind of thing, I think that's important for people to know that truly I didn't memorize a single line. Right. When I went there, I don't think you ever do. No, never. Sometimes I don't know what the scene is. Sometimes I'll be in makeup and I'll go, "What are we doing?" And I'll go, "Oh, we're doing this scene." I'll go, "Oh, okay." Because I wrote it. I know what it is, but nobody does any preparation at all. So we just go in. We know what the scene's about. We know where we are in the story. We know we have to advance the story, or whatever the story requirements are, and then we just wing it. And to do that for 12 seasons, you better have the right cast that can pull that off, right, between you, Susie, and Jeff, and JB, and Cheryl, and all that. That group is incredible. Incredible. Great improvisers. So incredible. All of them. What do you think Larry is the draw and the appeal of this show that people love so much? I have my thoughts about it, but do you ever stop and think why people respond to you the way they do? All I think about is, what's the funniest show that we can make? I'm just thinking funny. I'm not thinking anything else. And whatever results come from that, that's what it is. I think when people are somewhat politically incorrect, and I think people like that because we do deal with things that generally you're not seeing. And I think there's an element of truth to it that people like, and it's also dealing with a lot of issues that happen to people in their lives all the time. There are many things we deal with that are very relatable. So it's a good combination. Yeah, almost every situation I see in the show. Yeah, I've been there. And then the next part of that is, I wish I were allowed to respond the way Larry does. Exactly. That's what's so cathartic about it for me because I'm doing this character Larry who is really me, but me who can't really be in society because I'd be arrested or be not every day. But here I have the license to really be who I am, which is that guy. And so, yeah, go. So what you're saying is, in real life, you are the curb Larry David, but you've got to pull back the reins. I've got to pull back the reins. Yeah, okay. Yeah, because everything the character Larry David is saying, I'm thinking, I might not be able to say, although the more years I've been on the show, the more I'm pushing it, the lines have been blurred, lines are getting blurred a little bit, which is great, which I love. But I feel like you can get away with it now and people laugh. Yeah, I can. If you ask me out to lunch, I go, no, I don't think so. You can't say that. You have to make something up. Oh, let me check my schedule as opposed to just no, I don't want to do that. We waste so much time with pleasantries, don't we? So much time. Yeah. I think also you are your character is pure id for people, which again, saying things that you want to say. I always talk about the episode where Susie and Jeff get a new house. Susie says, "Come on, Larry. I'll give you a tour. Come upstairs and you just go." I get it. Bathroom, bedroom. I think we all sort of feel that way. We don't need house tours. We don't need them. Yeah, thanks. I get it. I get it. Yes, there'll be a bedroom and a bathroom. And there's a little. Yeah, so what? So what? It's a house. Because social norms suggest we should take the tour and say how beautiful it is. It probably is. Yeah. You're just saying, "I'm sure it's great. I don't need to see it." I don't need to see it. I don't need to see your house. The other thing I noticed when you had me on those couple of days to do the show is you are picking up material. You were on your phone and you looked at me and you said, "Now, why when the text come in, some are green and some are blue." Oh, those green texts are scary. What's going on with this? The green texts are scary. And then you called Jeff over and said, "We've got to do something about this." Yeah. What's with the green text? Yeah. And it was such a real moment. What is the green text? Yeah. Well, sometimes if you text somebody, it comes up green and you don't know if they got it or not. And then you're in a pickle because you're writing back, "Did you get the above text?" And that also comes out green. It's green. The text came green. The text came out green. I don't know if you got it, but then that text came out green. So now, you don't know what to do. And if you don't hear back, I've always thought that. I think we discovered it was maybe that means it's coming from a different kind of phone or something. Yeah. If we were doing another season, the green text would definitely be in there. The season was written when you were on it. So there was no room for the green text, but that could even be the title of the show. The green text. That's a great title. It's a great title. I think even in that moment, Jeff came over and you started creating the episode. Like, you were going to miss a funeral or something, but the text didn't go through or whatever it was. That's all. It was fun to watch that in real time. Another moment, I remember speaking of life's little annoyances is the first time you came on Morning Joe, many years ago, for Curb, it was like a Starbucks cup with a lid and had a little hole in it. Yeah. You say, "Hey, it's season eight, seven or eight." And you go, "I invented this." Yeah, I did. Did you invent that? I invented the cup with the hole in it. Yes. I did. There's no question in my mind. They used to only give out coffee cups with lids. There were never holes in it. I was driving a cab. Okay. And with my teeth, I would make the hole. So nobody else. I never saw anybody else do that. I invented the hole. I invented the hole in the lid. I haven't made a nickel from it. Have you considered the untold revenue that you left on the table? It's sickening. It's a thieving conjure up. Does it haunt you? Yeah, it's haunting. Yes. Starbucks owes you a lot of money. Yeah. Hey guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Stick around to hear more from Larry David right after the break. At KeyBank, we know a small moment like, "Whoa, my kid's got a serious backhand." Can lead to an even bigger question like, "Tennis campus, how much?" And that's the type of moment where we'll meet you to help you build a savings plan for expenses big and small, so your money can make money. Mike, how's that sound? Sounds like match point. Sounds like love. We could serve up tennis puns all day. For every financial need, we'll meet you in the moment. 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Learn more about Trimfia, including important safety information at Trimfia.com or call 1-877-578-3527. See our ad in Food and Wine magazine. For patients prescribed Trimfia, cough support may be available. Vitamin Water is from New York. We needed a drink that can keep up with the music seen in the city. We got to see our favorite DJ performing Brooklyn. At 3 a.m. Or seen karaoke in the village. Also at 3 a.m. Drink Vitamin Water. It's from New York. Welcome back now. More of my conversation with Larry David. I got to ask you about Springsteen on the show. Sure. How did you get the boss to do curb? Call his manager. I know I know he was a fan. So I thought, well, yeah, I called his manager and next day he's in. Wow. He was funny. He was great. He was really good. Again, we were improvising. I didn't give him many lines. Jeff didn't give him many lines. He was making it up. The floor blank. That's his. He came up with that. He was really in that. He was good just the same way you did it. I mean, it's very surprising when people who've never done this come on like yourself and like Bruce and they're great. Yeah. He was really good. I don't want to give away because people still catch up sometimes in the episodes. But man, that scene sitting around the table is one for the ages, I think. Yeah. There's a lot going on. There was a lot going on in that scene. Yeah. I think part of it though, don't you think Larry's you make people like me or Bruce an outsider to your world so comfortable right away and you kind of put misplaced trust in our ability to do the thing that you guys do so well? Well, here's the thing. I've been doing it in a long time and I know that we're going to get what we need. I just know it whether I have to tell you every line that you have to say or however it turns out, I know that it's going to be fine. I've had enough experience so I'm never concerned. Nobody's ever been fired as far as I can remember. Yeah. And they're always, they always hit the Lori Lachlan casting was genius. Yeah. Was that your idea or hers? I don't, I think was somebody else. I don't think it was my idea. But I forgot whose idea it was. But she was game right from the get-go to do it. She really leaned into it. Yeah, she really did. Which is the smart play right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think the casting this year has been incredible. I've got to ask you about your dear friend, the late Richard Lewis. Yeah. He is, you've known him since he were kids right at camp. We were born three days apart in the same hospital in Brooklyn and Brooklyn Jewish Hospital. Three days apart. Then we were in camp together when we were 13. That's where we hated it. We started hating each other. And then we met again at the improv. He was a successful comedian. He'd already been on television and we ran into each other in the bar there. And we were best friends instantly. He said something like, so there were many years went by, I guess, between camp and that reunion. Yeah. And he saw something in your face. I remember not liking that face. Yeah. And you reconnected. Yeah. You guys on the show were basically brothers like it seems like you were in real life. Yeah. What did he mean to you off camera? He was just the sweetest guy. He would send emails to me and my daughters too. That would bring tears to your eyes. He was such a, such a menchy guy. He took care of so many people supported them, artists, friends of his and people who were running out of money. And he, it's so hard to believe that he's not here. It's just hard to believe. And I actually, I talked to him because I feel he's watching me. And I tell him to, hey, leave me alone. Keep away. You got stuff to do. Stop watching me. I loved him. Yeah. Big loss. Yeah. To that point, I've heard after his death, so many people said, oh, yeah, he used to send me like people in my business even. He'd see something on TV and he'd send a note. Yeah. I loved what you said. That was so smart. Yeah. Great job. I don't even know him. He found a way to get to me. Exactly. Exactly. He's that guy, right? He touched everybody. Well, I'm so sorry about the loss. Yeah. That's, that is as close to a brother as you can have, right? Yeah. It's funny. So when I would act with him on the show, I would say things to him that I could never say anyone, just because that's the way we treated each other. And ironically, there was one scene on the show where we were at some fundraiser. And I looked at him and I said, he was giving me a hard time. I said, when are you going to die? Yeah. And, and, yeah. But I could never have said that line to anybody else. Right. Right. So I didn't have that kind of relationship. I knew I could, I knew I could say that. And I knew he would, whatever, how we would, we would laugh. It wouldn't matter. He wouldn't be offended by it because we never offended each other. Yeah. He said, I mean, to know him that long in this setting and then to kind of grow up together. Yeah. It's brotherhood. And he was such a great comedian. Yes. He's so funny. The way his mind worked, you know what he would do? Every, the only way he would ever get off the phone, he would make me laugh hard than hang up on me. Every conversation. That's how we got off the phone. It's a performer. Yeah. Right. Yeah. But he also drove me crazy too. Like if you give him, like if he was going to be on the show, he would, he would call and send, he would call up 50 times asking, asking about the scene of the part and, and what, what he was supposed to do. And, and there were emails to everyone. He was completely obsessed and compulsive about it to the point where it drove you crazy. And boy, he was hilarious right to the end. These last episodes to cheese and the car and all of that. Just, and he did something to you on that show too that I think was important for the show, right? As a foil in some way and to put it into relief. Oh, sure. You were behaving? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Always. Yeah. He's the best. Well, I'm really sorry about his loss. He was such a funny guy. Yeah. And you were talking about your days in comedy here with Richard at The Improv and around New York. And then at some point you meet Jerry. Right. 76, 76, somewhere in there. Yeah. And you become buddies, right? Yeah. And not, not really like going to the movie buddies, but club, you know, seeing him at the clubs and all that. And we used to, we used to write together. He's the only one I ever did that with. We'd go to Central Park. I'd bring my premises. He'd bring his and I would tell him and then we'd, we'd kind of try and punch it, punch it up for each other. And he read one script I wrote that he, that he liked a lot. And then when he was becoming popular on television, NBC approached him for a show and he called me up. He's funny talking about you as a stand up, which is, which is, he thought you were hilarious. Yeah. But you had a little antagonism for the audiences sometimes, you know. I just couldn't do what was needed. Like being like coming out and being nice. You know, hey, you know, as comedians come out and they come and say, Hey, how you doing? Hey, great to be here. Hey, hey, nice to see. I couldn't say that. I couldn't do it. You couldn't bring yourself to say hello. I couldn't bring myself to say hi, hi, hey, you know, even now it pains you to even act it out, right? Yeah. Hey, everybody. Hey, hey, how's it going? How you doing? Yeah. Because the truth is you're not interested in other. Yeah. Also, a lot of my materials stunk too. So, you know, it was that, that was a problem. And you resented them for not laughing at it a little bit. Totally. Totally. Yeah. Totally. It would really get on, it would really get on to my skin. So then if that's true, I'm sure you're underselling yourself. But how do you get the job on SNL in 84? How did that come together? Oh, well, you know, I did, I did a show before that. Fridays. Yeah. Yeah. So, I was on that. So that gave me some very little, but some little a soup son of credibility. And I knew some, I knew some guys who are on the show. And I think they touched me. And in that one season, you got one sketch on it, right? Right. Right. Going up the elevator sketch, right? Yeah. Yeah. Should they have the stool in the elevator? Yeah. Right. We did it on the Seinfeld. Yeah. Right. And so why did that last one year for you? It just wasn't right for you, SNL? Well, Lauren came back the next season. Right. And I think he got his own new staff in. So, and that was that. I was out. It was just like that. Yeah. Goodbye. Goodbye. But then good things happen, obviously, when you and Jerry start working on Seinfeld. Yeah. The early discussions about that were two of you kind of walking around and experiencing life in New York and thinking, maybe this is a show? Is that fair to say? Well, it started with the two of us in a grocery store talking about breakfast cereals, what have you. And, you know, it was kind of funny with each other. And we went, yeah, this is what the show should be, this kind of dialogue, which I never heard on television, the kind of discussions that we would have. And so that was in my head when the pilot had to be written. But given what was on TV at the time and what had been successful in the past, what you're describing maybe doesn't feel like a big, broad national comedy hit, which it obviously became. No, not at all. I wasn't even thinking of it that way. I just wanted to get through the pilot to just have that. Right. And then that got picked up. And then we got picked up for four shows. So now there's this four more. And I had no experience writing a half an hour. I didn't even know how to do it, really. I didn't even know the format. But, you know, trial and error, you get better at it. And eventually I developed sort of a formula. When did it click? Because it was an instant. I think Jerry still has the review from the test audience. Yeah, I've got one of those two that went to. They didn't respond well initially. No. But there were some patients from at least one, maybe two executives at NBC. A guy named Rick Ludd went right in the show. Right. And so at what point did you guys feel like, okay, now the audience gets what we're doing here and we're off to the races. Do you remember that? Well, certainly when they moved us to Thursday night, we were on Wednesday night. I think at 9.30. And then they moved us to Thursday night after cheers at 9.30, which was like a cushy spot. And some reporter called me up and said, well, what do you think about that? I said, well, I said, if they weren't watching on Wednesday, I don't want to watch it on Thursday. Not the PR industry was looking for. No, I don't think so. But I meant it. I mean, what? Now you're going to watch it because it's not after cheers because you're too lazy to change the channel. Why don't you watch it on Wednesday? Those are the people I wanted to watch it. The people who were watching. But it worked. Yeah, but that's when it sort of changed. Yeah. And the numbers are wild. I mean, if you look at that finale in '98, which you came back for, it was 76 and a half million people or something like that, I guess. When you look back on it now, 25 years later, can you believe how broadly popular a show about you and Jerry in the grocery store became across the country? Like I said earlier, anything that I do that's successful is a surprise. Yes. So yeah, I don't know. I don't know how to account for it. So you're still surprised. Even that curb is such a hit. I'm still surprised. Yes, I am. Stick around for more of my conversation with Larry David right after a quick break. At KeyBank, we know a small moment like, huh, what's it like to have a yard? Can lead to an even bigger question like, "Am I ready to buy a home?" And that's the type of moment where we'll meet you. Prepare to talk about everything you need to know when applying for a mortgage. So you can try to turn those backyard dreams into reality. Paul? Yes. Question. Are you a hammock person? You know, I think I might be. For every financial need, we'll meet you in the moment. KeyBank opens doors. NMLS-399797 Equal Housing Lender. I won't let my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis symptoms define me. Emerge as you. In two clinical studies, Tramphia, Gusaukumab, taken by injection, provided 90% clear skin at 16 weeks in 7 out of 10 adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. In a study, nearly 7 out of 10 patients with 90% clear skin at 16 weeks were still clear at five years. At one year and thereafter, patients and health care providers knew that Tramphia was being used. This may have increased results. Results may vary. Serious allergic reactions may occur. Tramphia may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. Before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms of infection, including fever, sweats, chills, muscle lengths, or cough. Tell your doctor if he had a vaccine or plan to. Emerge as you. Learn more about Tramphia, including important safety information at Tramphia.com or call 1-877-578-3527. See our ad in Food and Wine magazine. For patients prescribed Tramphia, cough support may be available. Michael Smirkhanish from SeriousXM. I'd like to say that my radio program is for independent minds. You'll hear me from an independent viewpoint not tethered to partisan politics. That doesn't mean that I ignore the opinions of the left and the right. It's balanced, delivered daily. You can listen to the Michael Smirkhanish program at home or anywhere you are. No car required. Download the SeriousXM app for over 425 channels of ad-free music, sports entertainment and more. Subscribe now and get three months free offer details apply. Welcome back now to the rest of my conversation with Larry David. Now we don't want to give anything away, but how did you approach the finale of a curb? How did you want to put a bow on this experience? Oh boy, oh boy. This is difficult to talk about now. If this shows if we were coming out after the finale, then we could talk about it. But I don't think I can give you anything. Nothing. No, nothing. It's probably better that way. Yeah. Just watch. Yeah, just watch tonight. Yeah. Is any of the approach to the finale colored by the Seinfeld finale? I'll put it that way. No, no. Okay. Well, you're just vault over there, aren't you? You know what? You could tell me you could share intimate secrets with me and be very confident that I'm not going to tell anybody. That's good to know. I'm very discreet, very discreet. I don't tell anybody anything. I'm going to whisper a few things to you later. People know people know they can confide. I have a couple of good qualities and this is one of them. You can confide in me and be certain that I would never tell a soul. Take it to the grave. That's good. That's a great quality. It's a good quality, right? It's one of the best qualities. See? It is. I'm not all bad. I got something. Yeah. We found it. Yeah. Good going. Last thing, Larry, do you think about what's next for you professionally? I try not to. Okay. But there's a next, right? Well, hopefully. Yeah. But we have no idea what that is. No. Okay. Yeah. Might be golf. It could be a lot of golf for a while anyway. Maybe. Larry, thanks so much. Sure. Great to see you. Good to see you. After we sat down there at the site of the old improv where he got his start in stand-up comedy, Larry and I walked outside in New York's Hell's Kitchen neighborhood where he also lived. We're a little all over the place. Bear with us, but I think you'll enjoy just hearing raw, unfiltered Larry David. He showed us two of the apartments where he lived. He showed us the fruit stand where he once returned peaches because they were not to his liking. You cannot return produce. It turns out that became a famous Seinfeld episode where Kramer tried to return his produce. Larry, as you may know, lived in an apartment building he takes us to where his neighbor was a guy named Kenny Kramer. Seinfeld's Kramer was based on the real life Kenny Kramer. We also happened upon totally coincidentally the diner called Westway Diner where Larry says he and Jerry Seinfeld first sat in 1998 and started to conceive of Seinfeld. In one of those booths, they dreamed up the most successful comedy in the history of American television. So, here it is. Larry and me out on the streets of New York's Hell's Kitchen. Does this neighborhood bear any resemblance to the way you remember it? All the stores have changed. Every, every single one there's not, oh wait a second, the Westway diner. That's been here forever. That's where Jerry and I went to talk about the show. Is it really? I swear to God, yeah. Wow. That's where we first started talking about what the show was going to be right here. That's a historic landmark then. Tucked into a booth, figuring out Seinfeld. Yeah, exactly. Wow. Yeah. I'm doing it. And there was a, there was a fridge stand over there. Let's, let's see. There may still be all, all of these are different. The Westway Diner is the only one I recognize. So, you lived around the corner and that was your diner? Well, I lived around the corner, yeah. Yeah. But there was a fridge stand right over there. That's where I got banned from. Which became an episode? Which became an episode, yeah. Hey. Did you really try to return the fruit? I tried to. It was bad fruit. Well, he gave me bad fruit. Did you have bites out of the fruit? No, no, no. There were no bites. I'm sure I had one and it was terrible and then I wanted to return the others. What's wrong with that? Well, if we return the others, I think that's fair. All this building was not here. I don't know what this is. Yeah. Wow, look at this. Good. But I had one apartment up there. That was, that was from like 19, I moved in there like 72 or three. And then I lived in that high rise down there. That's Manhattan Plaza. That's the same building? Yeah, that's still there. Yeah. So, do you remember these years as exciting, happy fun? I don't remember being particularly happy. You know, it was fun. The improv had a, we had a softball team. I had the Broadway show lead. That was a lot of fun. Okay. Yeah. That was a highlight. That was great. That was fun. Otherwise, otherwise, I know when I would go home at night from the improv's around the corner. So my apartment was over there when I would go home at night because it was such a terrible neighborhood, I would pretend to be a drug addict. Oh. So I wouldn't get mugged. So I would, I'd be walking home like this. I think we'll stay away. Yeah. You did what you had to do in the 70s in New York. That's what you had to do. Yeah. How you doing? Hi. So Larry, you're from Broadway. By the way, there's a, these to be a grocery store over here. And I would go in there at three o'clock in the morning. And this is like a blink. You know, I had, I had a Tropicana bottle filled with pennies. I would come to this grocery store at three o'clock in the morning. I would empty the pennies out. Swear to God, I'm not making it up. I would empty the, I would empty the pennies out on the counter. This is, I'm just telling you, it's not a woe is me. It's just something that happens. So I would empty the pennies out on the counter and get like a can of Chef Boyardee. Chef Boyardee. That clerk loved to see you coming. Uh oh. Here's the pennies. Dumping them onto the counter. That park is still there. Okay. That's a classic. So are you Larry, you've been in LA long enough and certainly on curb, you feel like an LA guy. But it's your courier in New York. How do you look at it? No, I'm you know, a lot of New Yorkers move out to LA and and they they start rooting for the LA teens after two or three years. I've seen it. Yeah. No, not me. Still, still for all the New York teens. And to your credit, that's a come to the Lakers and the Dodgers. No, no, no. But you know, it's when I come here, it's just I just know who the people are. Yeah. I mean, I I just feel at home. I like the warmer climate. Yeah, I was gonna say the golf is a little better. The golf is a little better. But I'm having the golf. Yeah. And the traffic is not quite as horrible in LA. Yeah, really. I don't I don't think so. We did. Yeah, I was trying to get from downtown 57th Street yesterday in the rain. It took about, you know, 45 minutes. Yeah, that's that's true. That was your apartment up here. We just walk in at this point. No, it's right up here. Oh, it is. Okay. Yeah. So is this the first apartment? Yeah, this is this. No, it's my second apartment. I lived on 72nd Street for what for one year. Then I moved here in 73. I think my father owned half the building. He inherited it from his aunt with his sister. And so I had a rent-free place. But the porno capital of the world was right around the corner. Right. Yeah, we're right there. Yeah, we're right there. Yeah, walking distance. Yeah, it's right there. 42nd Street, when it was in its glory and glory with quotation marks, right over there. So that, you know, that's the neighborhood. And the improv was right around the corner. And so you had everything you need. Yeah. Porno improv. Yeah, exactly. Do you remember what floor you're on? I was on the second floor. Okay. And it was tight, tight and not luxury living. Very, yeah, very, like a railroad of two rooms. The kitchen was this size of this. Yeah, it's New York. Yeah. And at night when I'd come home, I would take my boot off, my army boot. And I would go into the bathroom and turn the light on and attack the roaches in the top. It was a routine every night. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right on. Boom. Boom. Boom. Was the army boot from your time in the reserves with the petroleum storage unit? Oh. Yes. Yeah, I had, I wore those. That was my, that army jacket was my winter coat for a couple of years. Yeah, I had my name on it. And again, I took credit for the, the haul and the coffee cup. I'm going to take credit for, for the army fatigue jacket. That as a fashion. Right. Yeah. Right. Because a lot of people, I noticed after I, after I was walking around with it for a couple of years, I noticed they became popular and you had the, the army jacket and also the navy peacoat. Came into vote. That too. That too. Wow. And I didn't, I didn't do it with the peacoat. I think people said, well, they're wearing the army stuff. I'll wear the navy. Right. Yeah. So it went from becoming a uniform, something practical. Yes. To a fashion item. Yeah. Exactly. Led by you. Yeah. I also would like to take credit for jeans. Yeah. Yeah. Because I, I was wearing jeans very early on. I, I didn't notice a lot of people wearing them. With the army coat? With the army coat. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. A lot of people wouldn't think to pair those. No. No. Very forward thinking. I will say your fashion between real life and curve is similar. Is that fair to say? Well, it's fair to say because it's the same thing. No, I haven't shopped in 24 years. You just take it off the rack, right? Yeah. I take it, I take it right from the show. Yeah. But now I'm going to have to start buying my own clothes, I guess. Yeah. I feel like these can hold up. By the way, there was an article about me from somebody. I don't know who was that said I was some kind of fashion. You know, I can't. You saw that. I saw it. Yeah. Yeah. Did you see it? It is a look. I did. Yeah. It is a look, right? Kind of a casual blazer. I don't like to tuck in. That's the, that's the thing. Right. Like shirts, button shirts, you have to tuck in. That's it. Right. So that's, that's why I don't wear those shirts. Yeah. I'm careful, careful. Yeah. What I like is your consistent with the fashion too. Whatever the environment, you stay with the look, right? Positively. Yeah. But I did, I did notice, because I had to put this clip real together for the show and I had, I had a look at old shows. The wardrobe was much different in the first two seasons. Oh, is it? Yeah. What were you wearing back then? Jerry used to call it my, my upper west side communist look. Yeah. Where's the fruits? Oh, I see. Okay. Oh, okay. I get it. My food stand. It's over there. Yeah. Yeah. This one, this one, I wasn't here. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it wasn't this fruit stand, but one like it. No, it was, this is outside. The one that I went to was over there. I was inside. Yeah. Because on Seinfeld, he went into the shop. Yes. That's, that's, that's what it was. Yeah. And then he sends Georgia. How are you? And then Kramer sends Georgia and the shop owners onto it. He sees what's going on. Yeah. Exactly. Yo, oh, he was so pissing me when I came back. This Italian guy, his name was Joe. And he was so pissed when I came back with those beaches, whatever they were. Yeah. No, no, no, you can't return it. You bought the fruit. You keep it. You eat it. And you know what? I don't want to see you in here ever again. You're banned. What was the complaint? Not soft enough, too soft, not ripe on the beaches. I don't remember. And it takes a lot to return produce. Or maybe not. You know, produce is very tricky. You got to get it on the right day. No. What do you think? Yeah. And I don't always know, like with the avocado. And sometimes they don't let you touch them. No. Hands off. Hands off. That's tough. You touch it. It's yours. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So now it's just a, you know, it's a guessing game. It is. It's a guessing game. It's a dangerous game. Yeah. Yeah. The cantaloupes, you know, all of that. The cantaloup. Are you supposed to buy that without touching it? Right. Right. Why don't you pick it up? It's rock hard. You're in trouble, but it's yours. Yeah. I'm wondering if the market should have somebody who knows the fruit, who works for the market and directs you to the best fruits. That's a good idea. And that's when your hand drifts to when he goes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Not a terrible idea. So I moved into this building in '77. And this is subsidized because of the neighborhood. They couldn't sell the apartments. So the federal government took it over. And it was a building for artists. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. So. So it was affordable for a guy trying to find his way. So I had a studio apartment for $57 in 1977. That was my rent because of my it was based on your income. Ah. And that was I wasn't doing so well. Yeah. Okay. So this building I moved into in 1977. And I went to Los Angeles in '79. I came back in '84. And I want to, but I don't have my apartment anymore, but I wanted to sublet. They don't allow a sublet. But I knew a guy who was going to LA and we switched departments. So I came, I took his apartment, he took my apartment. The problem was they don't allow you to sublet. So I couldn't get into the building. They had a security guard. I couldn't get in. The only way I could get to my apartment that I was subletting was to buzz, to sign in my name where I was going. I'm going to Kramer, the real Kramer. I'm going to Kramer's. And so they would buzz Kramer. Larry David, this is four years. Larry David here to see you. Kramer never left the apartment. Kramer goes, yeah, send him up. So I'd go up and I'd go into my apartment. This is when you're living here. That's how you got into your apartment. Yes. I had to get buzzed into my apartment. Even like a moment, three o'clock in the morning. Mr. Kramer. Yeah. Larry David here to see you. Send him up. Doorman never caught on? Oh, they all know. But we all went through the motions. Now is that was their job. They couldn't let me into the building. Sometimes Kramer wasn't there. But I had a list of people who I could call. Oh, you had some backups. I had some backups. Yeah. So I couldn't, you know, if Kramer wasn't there, I'd call the backup. And sometimes, sometimes I'm out here waiting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Late at night. But it's an odd way to live. It is. Certainly. Yeah. So this was where the famous Kramer. Yes. They ever lived. Yes. And how much like the Kramer we know was the real Kramer? Only for their propensity to kind of stay in the apartment and avoid employment as much as possible. Yeah. That's what they had in common. Yeah. And what did the real Kramer think when Seinfeld became a thing? He wanted money to use his name. And they gave it to him. Oh, they did? Yeah. Oh. So it worked out. Yeah. Stay in the apartment. And then he did this thing called the Seinfeld reality tour. We would take people first, he'd show them, first, he'd show them some clips, some of me, some stuff on me and stuff from the show. And then he would put them on a bus. Yes. That's right. And take them around the city and say, Oh, this is where, this is where the soup Nazi was, right? This is where somebody was in the hospital. The diner all the way up town. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. That's right. I knew that. You know, he got his cut. Yeah. But it was a great building. It had a gym and had, I had a five tennis courts. That's right. In between the buildings. There was a pool. Yeah. It lived in pretty well compared to the other. Yeah. Right. It was pretty good. No, you had to do was get buzzed in. Yeah. That's it. That was the only that was the downside. My huge thanks to Larry for a great conversation for showing us around his old neighborhood. And sincerely, for I don't know why he did it, but dropping me in to the final season of the great curb your enthusiasm. Thank you, Larry. You can check out this final season and every past season of curb your enthusiasm streaming on HBO Max. My thanks to all of you for listening again this week. If you want to hear more of these conversations with our guests every week, be sure to click follow so you never miss an episode. And don't forget to tune in to Sunday Today, every weekend on NBC. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday Sit Down podcast. I won't let my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis symptoms define me. Emerge as you in two clinical studies. Trim fire, goose elkumab taken by injection provided 90% clear skin at 16 weeks in seven out of 10 adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. In a study, nearly seven out of 10 patients with 90% clear skin at 16 weeks were still clear at five years. At one year and thereafter, patients and health care providers knew that trampia was being used. This may have increased results results may vary. Serious allergic reactions may occur. Trampia may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. Before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms of infection, including fever, sweats, chills, muscle legs, or cough. Tell your doctor if he had a vaccine or plan to. Emerge as you. Learn more about Trampia, including important safety information at Trampia.com or call 1-877-578-3527. See our ad in Food and Wine magazine. For patients prescribed Trampia, cough support may be available. [BLANK_AUDIO]