What is the future of Supercars? That's what we're gonna find out. Now, it should be obvious to anybody who's watched this show even once or listened that I am not a car guy, but I am a future guy and I am a tech guy. And I was really inspired by this story because these guys have built a tremendous following with this supercar of the future, and it's going to be all electric in this crazy way that basically I've never seen done before. So for the people who think that a Tesla is not fast enough, this is a crazy electric supercar of the future, and it also represents a really exciting business model for any of the budding entrepreneurs out there. So it's a great story and it's on location in Long Beach. So you might want to check out the video that goes along with it on the YouTube. You can look at the link in the description to figure that out. Otherwise, if you're an audio person, I'm putting it here just for you. So this is Nikita Bradan, one of the co-founders, one of the twin co-founders of oil stain lab. And we're going to talk about the future of electric supercars. I'm Ross Palmer and this is Future Optimist. Future Optimist. I've been told you have a twin brother, is that actually true? Yeah, yeah, he's somewhere around, not here. Is this a fight club situation? A little bit of a fight club, yeah. He's imaginary, there is no brother. Alright, so there's in theory a twin brother roaming around. Tell us what you and your brother have been up to. Well, this is HQ, this is oil stain lab. Started as a design consultancy and sort of migrating its way into kind of a boutique car builder. As one does, I mean, don't you have a boutique car company? I know I do. So you've been designing cars for a long time, which you said yourself that you're not a car person by default. You didn't get into it until later in life. So how did that journey go for you? So my brother and I were born in Ukraine, moved to Canada when we were three. Like, I remember, you know, if you saw an Audi or something, it was like, "Whoa, what the heck is that?" So there was no car culture. Parents didn't really like cars. So there was, you know, it really was just an appreciation of design and art. And one day I found a website, car design news, became an obsession. My dad was also buying a new car at the time and we kind of started learning all the specs and kind of being dorky about car specs, but not how they work or anything, more of just like how they look and that was it. Yeah, just knew we wanted to be designers and dropped out of high school at, well, 13, 13 dropped out of high school, did some SATs, which would get us, you know, score was high enough to get us into basically any art college, and then moved to Italy, studied car design there. That's like 1,000, right? Oh my God, I think they needed an infrared car. Well, high designers out there. Okay, all right. There's something anyways. Okay, awesome. A funny part is we scored the exact same SAT score. See, this is what I'm talking about. There's a Tyler Purden situation. There is no brother. Who was supposed to be here, but he didn't show up. So, what is it about cars as not a car guy? And I know that a lot of people on the internet that cars are sacred to many people, they're super passionate about it, not being a car person at the start. What brought you into that world? Was it purely design? What about the specs captivated you? Well, I think mostly it was the way it looked, right? Kind of the way it looks and then, you know, the way it kind of makes you feel or people engage with it, right? It's like, you know, they always say, like, you know, you want to go and you want to touch a car or something, you want to sit in it, you want to experience it. So, I think it was that those shapes or those reflections, you know, and the difficulty of it. You know, we were doing a little bit of industrial design, a little bit of architecture, like, when we were younger, like, trying to figure it all out. But the difficulty of a car, it's like you have to design the seat, the steering wheel, the radio control. Like, just the sheer number of components that a designer touches was very appealing, the range of it, you know? So, it's sort of like the Holy Grail for a designer. It's just such a complicated project that you were interested. Maybe Holy Grail are just like a masochist. Do you have a lot of regrets? Is that what you're trying to say? A little bit. Don't do it. Is that the recommendation from people at home? It's easier ways to, yeah, make money. Okay. All right. So, one of the most interesting things about your story is you worked in corporate America. You worked for a lot of the big car companies. You got some of your designs out there. I'm always fascinated in the transition that somebody makes between going from corporate world to starting their own thing. So, what was the catalyst for you for doing that? My brother and I both graduated, you know, 2010 or something like that a long time ago. We both went to work for Teotas Advanced Design Studio. And you start talking to some of the more senior designers, and you start to sense, there's a little bit of jaded something there, right? You kind of get an understanding of like, okay, there's things that kind of repeat itself, and so that planted a seat. Like the teamsters in Hollywood. Yeah. Big business, a dream job kid. Because, you know, when you get out of school, you're like, I'm going to change the world. Like, it's going to be amazing. I'm going to go to the worst car company with the worst designs, because clearly, the problem is that they don't have designers, right? Okay. No, but genuinely, that's why we went to Teota. And then you quickly realize you're a small gear in this giant machine, and you can bang your head against the wall. And like, honestly, nothing will really ever come of it. Some of the most talented designers worked for the most horrific design companies, right? And you quickly understand it's the management, the financial, the engineering, all those other facets that really control design. And there's a great challenge in my brother, you know, he did all those production cars, like navigating that giant machine to get your vision onto the road. Like, he's done it, and it's not easy. It's not the most fun. But, so we learned a lot, we learned what works, what doesn't work. We also got experience being two of us. You know, we diversified. He was at Hyundai, or I was at Hyundai, he was a GAC, as a General Motors, he was at Honda. And so you learn the different systems, and you learn from obviously amazing, talented people. And then you're like, I think I can do better, like by myself, without the constraints of the system. And you get tired of some of the politics, of course, you know, the corporate things that you need to do, right? Like, not beat your design boss at golf. Like, that's a big no-no. Don't beat your boss at golf. You can't beat your boss at golf. Not a Toyota. Wow, okay. Because Toyota is Japanese. I mean, is this a Japanese culture thing? I think it is interesting. So that's not the Toyota way in their book. The Toyota way is, be bad at golf. So what was it like applying for a job as two people? Was that unusual? Did they have deja vu? Did you interview at the same time? So I mean, it was very interesting because we went through school together. We went different ways through our internships, but, you know, we always wanted to graduate together and like finish that journey. So we graduated together, getting a car design job. You know, I think there's been some statistics harder to get into the NBA. Like, I don't necessarily believe that, but it's challenging. So I think out of our graduating class, my brother and I were the only ones who got jobs in California was like the place to be. And not only that, but we got a job at the same place, which is like unfathomable, really, for there to be two openings. So a few years ago, relatively recently, you split off, you said we're going to make what is essentially a supercar? Is that what I would call it? Or is there a better name for it? Ooh, yeah. So rate it just before COVID. We had this bright idea to basically start oil stay in lab and kind of start our exit from the corporate world. It actually turned out pretty good because everybody was working from home. And so you could work on your own stuff in many ways without, you know, a massive oversight from your boss. And the idea was to a core obsessed with storytelling. And we went to school in Italy, which is coach building, which is like a very traditional way of sort of building one-off cars. So we kind of combined Italian coach building plus Hollywood storytelling and created a fake history for the car that's behind us, the half-eleven. And it was really kind of a business card for a new way to design/story telling the design, car design, car business, you know? Because all the stories are stale, you know? Well, you're obviously really, really good at that. I mean, your decks are insane. The quality of your rendering is insane. The story you've built, the community you've built online is insane. What do you think about this concept has attracted so many people so fast? It was interesting. We had a whole thesis that we planned out when we started the whole thing and it dealt with, you know, what's real, what's not real. And it's funny, looking back to 2019 and now looking at it with AI, advanced technology, face swapping, all that stuff, it's like, whoa. But back then, it was very much to like, yeah, it's a fake history. It's an alternate history. And, you know, how do you get people that are constantly overloaded with information? They're in a blasé condition. How do you get them to just stop, accept that some things in front of them that they need to engage with, and they need to make a decision? Is it real? Is it fake? Do I want to believe? Or do I want to like, get angry, right? So it's like, and it's a great filter because if you choose to believe and you choose to engage to have fun, it's a very captive audience, right? You're preaching, you know, to your people. So it was a very good filter. And it was a little bit controversial, which, you know, always helped with publicity. I mean, that's the internet in a nutshell, is going to say the fact that anybody chose not to hate. But people love their cars. They love their toys. And there are a lot of attitudes I've learned from researching you and your history. The attitude that people have about these original cars, like the Porsche 911, stuff that means nothing to me. But there are a lot of people who are really passionate and say, oh, you chopped half of that off, and you can't do that because that's not cool. And this car never actually raced in that race, therefore, right? I mean, you've been up against stuff like that. Do you still get things like that? Are people mostly on board? It's kind of funny because I think at the start, like you said, you know, Porsche 911 very iconic car. We've had a few of them. We love it, actually. Yeah, so I mean, we played into it. Like when we would get hate or whatever, we would create these images of like a protest and then change all the protest signs to like, leave my 911 stock. Don't cut my 911. And even for, we did a Christmas catalog one year and we made a Porsche chainsaw. So you could cut your 911 in half. You know, like, we just embraced it because it's fun. It's the internet. It's fun. Very cool. I mean, you're very meatiest. That's awesome. The famous oil stain. Is it right there? I feel like that, is that the stain on which it was all based? And like, what is with the oil? You've got this collection of oil over there. What's the deal behind that oil? Yeah, so we've been collecting oil from like fancy cars, famous cars, race cars, very sort of exclusive cars. We have an idea. It's part of a sort of an exhibit we want to do. And it talks about, you know, kind of the energy transition and sort of recycling stuff and the circle of life of products and all sorts of stuff. But we're just too damn busy making a car. Nice. The big question. You play with reality a lot. You switch and you fuck with people's minds, which is awesome. Is the half-eleven, is the future of supercar, is it electric? Wow. That's a loaded question. We think the future is, yeah, diversified, basically the powertrain. So we're excited about EV. We're excited about combustion. I think there's a lot of stuff that's left on the floor through like the OEM process where they're just afraid to take risk. So we're going to take those risks. The car that everybody's been seeing is that electric? So that car is not electric. It's pretty famous for the noise it makes. That might change soon. But for now, it's American V8. What the fuck am I even doing here? I've been lied to, man. No, I'm just kidding. But that's the, you know, that's what the angle we're all approaching this from because a lot of people you've talked to so far, there's car enthusiasts, which we know is a sacred thing. And I'm not trying to disrespect any of that group. My thing, like we talked about before we started taping, is more of the future and tech and all of those types of things. So what do you see as the future of cars and why did you want to bring that tech component into it and why is that important? At least for the enthusiast market, which is where we operate in. The only thing that really matters is fun. That's it. We're building toys, right? We're not saving the planet. We're not saving the world from some sort of catastrophe. Do you want me to re-crumble my paper because I already threw it away. Should I do it again? We basically were creating fun and through that fun you can create sort of a deployment or a future vision of what is, I guess, positive EV or positive hydrogen or any other technology, right? Do you feel that this kind of fun toy tech is a great way to bring about a certain kind of change or is it just a different way to have fun? I mean, I think, yeah, you can sort of start to show people that it's fun, right? And it worked for Tesla for a little bit, right? In the enthusiast market, it hasn't worked because people actually still care about stopping distance and weight and sort of the way that a car handles and the way that it feels. But certainly, I think that product doesn't exist today. And if it did exist, I don't think there'd be as much resistance as there is to the current product. So, yeah, I think gamification, fun, making things enjoyable, not necessarily mimicking combustion. We're not talking about mimicking old tech. We're talking about a new sort of fun, a new excitement, and why wouldn't that be a good way to showcase it's also good for the planet? Doing some important for car people that an electric version of a sports car makes that noise that's super loud rumble. Do people care about that as a positive thing? Yeah, so I mean, I think it's not even so much a rumble because I think modern combustion cars are pretty loud, but they're very much controlled by a computer. So, it's very repetitive, the noise, and it's predictable, right? You see those M4s through Glendale, and I like it. I love big reference in my own town, you know, racing. It is kind of famous for that. Yeah, believe me, I know I have two small children, and it's the bane of my existence. So, yeah, how soon until one of my motherfuckers finds that? Let's turn it down, okay? How many decibels is it? Can we get it? 50 dB quieter? Yes, yes. So, I mean, I think the reason, like, there's such an affinity for the older cars or sort of some of the... It's that randomness, right? If it's a cold morning, it starts a little differently. It's more alive, it's more connected, it's more connected with the environment, it has an effect and a cause. And so, I think that's really the challenge with EV, right, is it's so predictable, and it's utterly dull because it's optimized. It's been optimized for pure efficiency, and that makes a lot of sense when you're a Tesla or a commuter or something. But what if you start to push that into interesting avenues of where it's not predictable, where it's not pure efficiency, it's still more efficient than combustion. It still, you know, doesn't really pollute, at least greenhouse gas-wise. But now you start to play more on the emotional side, the raw side, you know, and kind of generating a new sort of excitement. Is that possible? I don't know, we'll find out. The actors are Vince Vaughn and Kevin James. The movie is The Dilemma. Have you seen this movie? And did you model your life after the plot of that movie? I have not, The Dilemma. Yeah, two brothers, no, maybe not brothers, two friends working at Dodge, they work in the car industry, and they set out to make an electric vehicle very ahead of its time. But it had to have the rumble and the balls, and they spent all of their career building this EV that sounded like an internal combustion engine. That's the entire plot of the movie. It's going to be movie night tonight. You're going to take some notes, because that's what I thought about it. I was like, how much do you try to emulate that or let it be? Yeah, I mean, we've talked to a number of obviously technical partners and also clients and also people just in general, like, what do you want to do? I think there's a really big appeal in something that's silent around town where you just even cruise through the mountains and you can literally hear like leaves being crushed by your towers. It's such a different experience. Having said that, we also talked with a company up in Canada that's developing a GT3 racing program for EVs and talk with their driver. She's a young lady and she's like, I don't know how fast I'm going into these corners. Because the car is basically silent. There's no feedback and it's like you're expecting a race car driver to look at the gauges. That's impossible. So I actually put a really loud transmission into it on purpose so that she knew how fast the gears were spinning so then she could optimize, you know, entry speed and stuff like that. We will never do what I think the OEM industry is doing, which is speakers. Right. That's what they do with amplifier speakers. That is, to me, like that is the worst thing we could ever be possible, like noise pollution for no reason. Right. Like, why are we doing this? It's terrible. That's the slogan of the city of Blendale. Literally. Tell the mayor that. Okay, so if you're going to start a car business having a source of oil in front of it, that's the smartest thing you can do. So one of the things that I want to talk about is the business model because it's sort of interesting when people can buy this car. There's also an opportunity to invest into the company itself. How did you come up with that business model? Yeah, I mean, basically we were talking to a bunch of business people that are a little bit more business oriented than us. And no, I mean, we did a lot of research in terms of how other car brands have done it in the early days. And obviously building your own car company is very capital intensive. So you have to be intelligent in the way you raise capital and sort of, yeah, the different vehicles. There you go. See what I did? Vehicles that you can use to raise that capital. So it's like an NFT, but something in the real world. I don't know if there's a word for that. The more traditional way of obviously investing, you know, equity or whatever, right? And then we're also basically creating sort of a special program for the first 11 buyers. And part of that is they get a little bit of equity. They get a little bit of experience and then obviously most of that money then goes towards their car. So it's kind of like experiential investing. So people often talk about startups as building a plane on your way to the ground after jumping off of a cliff. Is this something similar to that? So we've done kind of stages, right? Originally, we were basically self-funded to build a prototype. The prototype obviously created a lot of interest. Then we had to try and understand what that interest is. We're more of a glider. Okay. Yeah. We're not that risky. Yeah. But yeah, of course, at some point you have to jump and like you're all in. And if it works, great. You get to keep what you have. And if it doesn't work, then you live down by the river. Yeah. Well. Speaking of which, can I crash on your couch tonight? That's part of why we're here. So, yeah. When is the first car going to roll off the assembly line? Well, we don't have an assembly line. So we're going to start testing, I think, around March. So that'll be the new chassis. And then, yeah, 25 March, 25 testing, and then basically by the summer, we hoped out the first sort of finish car. And then it'll undergo six to eight months of testing. And then customer cars would be the middle of 26, roughly. Okay. So if everything goes incredibly well, what are you most excited about in the next year or five years? Having a nap. Getting some rest. Well, Nikita, thank you so much for sharing your vision and this amazing work that you have done. Where can people find you, support what you're doing, guess what's real and what's not about you? Yeah. I mean, they can find us on Instagram at oilstainlab. Our website is still password protected, so they can't go there. What's the password? Actually, I don't even know. The evil twin has the password. All right, but if you did know the password, it'll be oilstainlab.com. Okay. And what might the password be if you just had asking for a friend? Nikita pizza. Oilstain lab Nikita at pizza.com. I am so sorry about this. Do you have any dishes that need to be washed? Things that I can clean? Cars, cars. Plenty of cars to be cleaned. How many years of labor do you think it'll take me to pay this off? Fraternity. Well, I'm happy to be indentured to you for eternity. Thank you very much, Nikita. Oilstain lab. Awesome mission, awesome car. Can't wait to see what the electric future of supercars and beyond holds. So with that, the official podcast is over. [MUSIC] [BLANK_AUDIO]
