Out Now With Aaron and Abe
Out Now Commentary: Ed Wood (1994)
[music] We are now recording and this is Out Now with Aaron and Abe. I am Aaron and Abe is not here, but he might show up and he's threatened to join in this time. We'll see what happens. But Out Now is a film podcaster. Abe and I normally discuss new movies lately. However, every now and then, we'll have these special bonus episodes, whether it's one of our fun commentary tracks or something a bit different. This is our commentary track, though, for September 2024. We have left our global summer and we have now entered our no theme at all, but let's just do fun commentary's commentary session for the rest of the year. And for September, we are talking the film Ed Wood from director Tim Burton in honor of the film's 30th anniversary and, of course, as a way to celebrate Beetlejuice. Beetlejuice. So yeah, that's what we're going to do. We're talking about Ed Wood and joining me to discuss Ed Wood, we have hosts of the Brandon Peter show. This is the one he'll be remembered for. It's Brandon Peters. I never record podcast. I don't know. I got nothing. Go on to the next guy. All right. Also joining us for book news and the outside scoop. He pulls his own string. It's Scott, the ice cream man, Mendelssohn. Yeah, man, my introduction is to be pulled the street. He's pulled the street. Oh, let's record this fucker. That was right there. Fucking missed it. I was all about not. I was all about not quoting Chris well, which would have been perfect. But I'm like, oh, I'm not giving more Jeffrey Jones spotlight. The land mines I had to clear. Why not Brandon? He's very funny in this film. The land the land mines that were available for me to like use. I'm like, well, Brandon might say this. I can't use this. I have to go all over the place just to introduce to you guys. I had a good one for our guest, Yancy Burns. Well, he's unfortunately six. He's not able to make it to this commentary track. But the three of us will manage our way through our discussion of Tim Burns at Wood. What we're going to do here is basically talk over the movie, which is how commentaries work. Brandon Scott and I all have the film currently pause at about five seconds in. That's where the Touchstone logo is about to kind of reveal itself on screen. So if you plan to follow along, just pause it right there at five seconds. We're going to count down from three and on the sound to go. We're going to press play and start talking and you can press play as well. And you can listen in. If you're just listening to listen, you're good to go. You just, you just sit there or walk or do whatever you're doing. Well, listening to podcasts and have a good time enjoying us. Talk about Tim Burton's Ed Wood. You guys ready to go? Yeah. I am ready to go. Great. So let's do this thing, shoot this fucker. Three, two, one, plan nine. Okay. All right. Touchdown logo looks good in black and white. Oh, yeah. It has like a cool, like universal monster feel to it, because there's like a lightning bolt and everything with strikes. It's fun. Miss that Touchdown logo. Yeah. Is that a model? This little house that we're seeing at the beginning? I'd imagine. Probably. Right. So the bottle. Looks pretty big. The camera's going inside of it. So I'm going to look like a full house. I mean, yeah, there's probably a cut somewhere or. I don't know. I just, I would watch this shot. It looks like it. Look at the real house. Maybe. Oh, you know what? It could be just like a set. Yeah. And it looks like a model because it's. Burton's like, I made you several dollars on nightmare before Christmas. I want a full house. Damn it. Everywhere you look. Hi, Jeffrey. There he is. Best getter. Open your movie. It's the star of likeness rights. Jeffrey. Joe. This really has a cavalcade of canceled stars, I believe. Here. It was really good. It was a good one. It was a good one. It was a good one. It was a good one. What did I take from this guy? I think. We have to talk this guy. We have, of course, depth for the sixth time this year to commentary for us. Doing things right this year. We have, we have, I guess, Bill Burry. I think there's a lot of Bill Burry. I'm seeing him at Toronto, like, or Venice hanging out with cool people. So I guess he's all right. I'm using canceled in quotes. Obviously. He's been on the verge of getting quote and quote canceled for about a decade. Just in terms of like people that aren't like the favorite federal one to talk about on the internet anymore. It does seem like this has a collection of them. We don't even want to talk about what Rance Howard did. That's a joke. Rance Howard the Saint. I'm kidding. Okay, so Ed Wood. This movie comes out in 1984. There's plenty of things that happened leading up to this. But the main thing is, hey, Tim Burton has a couple big hits on his hand if I'm not mistaken, right? There is the Batman films, regardless of how well returns dropped off. It still was a hit movie, right? Makes him, I mean, they made a third one. I guess they did, right? I hear there's a new cut coming any day now. Edward Scissorhands, is that a hit Scott? Does that make do well? Yeah, it's a big hit. Absolutely. I imagine it's relatively cheap. Yeah, I want to say like you did 60 out of 20, but I may be way off. But I know it was absolutely a rock solid one for me that was actually successful. And there's also that nightmare before Christmas is happening before this as well, which he certainly has his name on. 20, 86 on 20. That's Edward Scissorhands. Which is and then most and all the stuff that comes with it. No, I mean, he was basically, you know, everything he had done up to this point was an unmitigated hit success. You know, aside from, yes, the discourse around Batman returns is a little complicated, but you know, money is money. Exactly. And not to skip ahead, but this was his first financial miss. Now, to be fair, it was also the first thing he had made that was not the kind of film that usually makes a ton of money. But also his open almost concurrently with a shot shake redemption. And neither film did particularly well that fall or show or other films that, you know, even back then, we're having this discourse about, you know, why aren't more people showing up to these excellent movies? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, the difference where it fails financially, it gains in Academy hardware, though. Academy hardware. And also it gains steam at my home video market in the ancillary stuff. Like, I mean, that's, that's the difference between then and now. Like, now things are streaming and they're maybe found or whatnot. But like, you know, shot shake redemption is this you know, revered classic, despite being a complete failure in theater. It's like, I don't, I don't, I lost millions in theaters and made trillions on D and D. No drama. This one, this we talk about home video. This one had like a VHS kit. It was like really blue. I remember in like, it, it just, it almost like didn't look like a movie. The way the VHS because they, they forgot, they, they forgot any of the poster art and went with like this picture of Depp and Black White. Like, it looked like it could have been like a, like a 30 minute documentary thing on something or whatever, almost rather than a movie. Just the, the cheapness, kind of the cheapness of what the art look like for back at the time. Cause there's a lot of stuff with VHS was a Wild West sometimes when you picked up something, it wasn't quite what you thought it was. Or, you know, like you got, I mean, being a horror fan, I got hosed by awesome cover art a lot. So, um, some kind of had a weird cover. I have to say, just real quick, before we get all past this, we were, you know, already if I was already talking about like, is that a model or not? That opening sequence is deceptively amazing as far as how it's doing a lot with both models and, you know, life size stuff. Like, we had a whole tracking shot away from Hollywood side. That's clearly like a whole like built miniature. And then it like moved over to, you know, Depp in real life walking on the screen. Like, that's fun. There's like, for a movie like this, that's less stylized comparatively to other Burton films. It does like, he is putting his effort into this from a direction standpoint, in addition to being like a character play and what have you. Yeah, he's hitting, he's hitting areas we haven't seen from him as a filmmaker yet, that are fully his influence and feel in his wheelhouse. Just, oh, you've seen the dining room in the living room, but come here, see the den, you know, that kind of, and even even a Beetlejuice Beetlejuice recently, he's showcasing new stuff. He's certainly putting, yes, a familiar stamp on it that says, this is a Burton film, which I cannot deny and do not diminish. Um, also to all of his films have elaborate opening sequences. Now, I'm like trying to think about this. Yeah, he's, I mean, quite a few credit sequences. Eva, I like dark shadows. It's just a train ride thing, but it's, it's got nice white satin playing and just, that movie has gigantic cinematography, which I love, which you like to mention up front, Scott and I did a Tim Burton retrospective a couple of years ago, where we went through his entire wheelhouse up through Wednesday and just noting things. And like, I was, I, I have this, like, I don't think dark shadows is particularly the greatest movie, but I seem to have a fascination with it every time I return to it. Um, I mean, I regarded a similar to Beetlejuice Beetlejuice, right? I don't really like the movie, but in terms of what's in it, there's plenty of stuff in it that's interesting, at least. Yeah, yeah, um, this one though, like, this taps out, like, this is definitely, this is quite possibly my favorite biopic of all time. Like, it's, it takes that thing where you take, like, you know, Aaron, I, we talk about preferring ones where they take a window of a person's life instead of their A to B to see this is when I was born. This is when I died or this is when I hit my success. And this, like, has a character to it that feels of the person itself. Like, it's like, uh, I recently, my name is Dolomite may have been, like, one of the first ones, Dolomites in my name, yeah, carried that kind of weight to it. And this just, I don't know, it's like a perfect storm. Um, because Burton, a lot of his influences are psychedelia and stuff. And like, this would have been kind of like the midnight movie or weird stuff he'd have been finding around as a child. And I believe John Waters introduced him to a lot of kooky stuff like this. He didn't use depth to a lot of his bird. Burton was a fan of wood in particular, right? Because obviously, as far as the 50s, the movie type stuff that he'd be into. And he's showing you this same period in a way that feels like you haven't seen it before, but doesn't feel like it's stretching the truth much at all. Yeah, it's combining the two things, right? It's giving you a kind of a, uh, a feel for this time period, uh, as well as taking the perspective of the character and making that like the world. And I agree with you. I mean, we just mentioned like the, it has a, it has a very particular perspective as far as not just, not just reflecting like who Ed would, who, where Ed would's coming from, but like, what would it be like to see it through this guy's eyes, what he's going through? And that's, you know, it's, that's how it's not just like a Wikipedia thing. Like it, and that's something I really, I like in biopics or it's a biopic. Like Scott, you say a lot. It's not a documentary. Like if I don't need, you want to make claims about accuracy. The second this thing starts, I'm not looking at this being like, well, this is obviously the definitive version of who Ed would was like, it's like, this is clearly very highly, it's black and white for God's sake. Like it's highly stylized as far as the choice that's making of how to portray Ed, you know, that you can read up on the facts about like who this guy was and what, how, you know, things involving him that aren't, aren't particularly in the story, let alone things not below the go see. Or Dolores is his first white, like, yep, your girlfriend. There's stuff that's just not how it was, but that's not bothersome to me, because the story has a very particular perspective on that that comes from the guy Ed's playing. And it's not necessarily lionizing him. It's more, this film is a tricky one because the comedy and it's portraying Ed in this sense of, he's a very constantly chipper kind of person. So you could confuse that for being lionizing because there's rarely anything that goes, quote unquote, wrong and the film celebrates what he's doing. But it's not the same as a film that's deliberately skewing things for the sake of political reasons or what have you. This is just like, no, this is the kind of guy that Burton saw in Ed that he wanted and the writers that they wanted to like put to a feature film. I like all of this for that reason. Yeah, it's a movie about and inspired by Ed Wood. Yeah, and it's fitting you choose Dolomaid as Benet, because that's the same writers. That's that's that's that's Scott Alexander and Larry. Yeah, he did a crap ton of really good biobics. Yeah, they have the people who's Larry and Flint after this Simpson thing. They're very involved in the OG Simpson thing, man on the moon. Big eyes. Big eyes, yeah. And that's it because they did the parable child movies that got a lot of success right there. And they're like, we don't want to be known for this. We want to desperately do anything else. They're USC students and they had this desire to like, we want like to do something that's better than just problem child stuff. We knock out. What's funny is they still go on to like make other kids like they do with that darn cat remake. They do agent Cody Biggs, man, goosebumps list as well. You know, these are, you know, varying levels of decent to not. But in between, yes, they have these like solid character biopic dramas. It's always exciting to see their names attached to one of these because you're like, yes, cool. Let's get these guys. They gave us that one. What, what can't they do? Let's have a worth this. Well, in 1994, who the hell knows whether this is accurate or not when you're going to see it? I don't film their culture. Is it quite there? It's, yeah. It certainly passes the test of if this is all bullshit. I don't care because it is compelling fiction. Yeah, which is, which is how the, the living people that were still around had a reaction to it because they're like, oh, he goes, he's kid, like he had issues as far as how they portrayed Bella because he never swore that was one of the big things. Like he's not a person that swears in real life. But like otherwise, they're like, but the movie works. Same with Dolores, where he's like, I just really like Tim Burton. Like I, that's not necessarily the ed that I do, but I can't deny that there's a movie here that works. Like it's that kind of response. Yeah, it's heightened sense of what it is. I mean, in terms of the, the structure, I mean, you're right. It's, you know, it's not a cradle to grave. It's basically the making of three films, one per act. The first act is Glen or Glenda. The second act is good. Right. The atom, is that right? Is that right? The atom, right? The atom, right? The monster or whatever. Monster, yeah. And obviously the third act is planned in a matter of space. And this film starts with him stumbling upon a biopic that, you know, only I can make this because of X, Y, Z. And if that isn't, you know, Burton splattering his own neurosis on the screen. I mean, um, and because, you know, this was obviously a time in his life where certainly coming off the, the discourse of Batman turns and Disney being scared shitless from that one for Christmas, you certainly had a more authentic feeling of, will I ever be accepted by these people then say, now, when he's 66 years old, has a long streak of this monster hit movies and, you know, dates Monica Bellucci, but I digress. Um, so this, this, you know, it's, it's, and to a certain extent, this feels, and I think Aaron, you sort of touched upon this too, but like, this feels like an Edward movie that he might make about himself. You know, in a fair play kind of way. Yeah, it's, it's interesting to look at where Burton is here, right? Cause yes, he's coming off of like this big success and he's a name in a way where even in 94, like I don't think offhand, there's still many directors that you're like, this, that, that name alone inspires a certain thing. Like, you know, there's still just like just Spielberg and just Lucas and it's not like Lucas is making any movies, like it's, it's weird how rare that like, you have to go really back to like the classic area to like actually get a, you know, like Cecil B. Deville presents or that kind of thing where that like makes a difference. Cause like in the 90s, does that mean something to most people beyond like Tarantino? And I think if you follow the industry, you know, even if you let you read entertainment weekly once in a while, I do think Tim Burton is one of the few filmmakers that is a name. And that, that was sort of the weird one of the reasons why he became so popular for our generation, give or take and so it's so early on with first off what so early on and with just so with just a handful of stuff, right? Three movies. It was Pee Wee Beetlejuice Batman and then you're like, yeah, what's next? Suddenly, suddenly this scissor hand guys, we need that nightmar before Christmas will only sell if we put this name in front of it. Like there's yeah, that's such a unique thing to like have happened to you as a filmmaker, especially for like a personality like Burton, who is very specific and at least the semblance of a kind of outsider kind of person. And yet here he is with like, you know, the most popular kid in town. And yet here we are with Ed Wood. This is basically his fallow period for the first time, right? Because despite the success, critically and whatnot, this and Mars attacks are not hits. Well, he was sleepy, he'll hold eggs. He's in deep shit. Scott, what was he was he pivoted to this and knock somebody off of it? Who was he supposed to do instead of this? I could I could I could tell you right. Um, I forget why maybe? Yes. Yeah, it was Mary. Yep. I could literally tell you all of this right now. Yes. He was the he the, as I mentioned, the writers Alexander Kirozewski, uh, they had this idea. They took it to Denise de Nova, his Burton's producer for his like first few films. He and Burton were going to produce this movie. Michael Lehman was going to direct it, but Michael Lehman of Heathers. Michael Lehman got caught up making airheads. So he had to, which, you know, obviously a classic in its own right, uh, blown rangers. So he had to stick with a biopic off dog day afternoon. So yeah, exactly. That's what it is. It's the real story. That's the that's what really happened. So they turned, they turned into a bank robbery thing to make success. Um, so we should just talk about the rock star thing. That would have been great. Lehman drops off. Burton, meanwhile, yes, he's trying to direct and you guys said it wrong. He was trying to direct a Perry Riley and you can't say it any other way. Okay. It's not a lot. That's how you think this most of direct here with Winona Ryder. Um, but that that elapsed at the same time to the whole Ed Wood stuff's happening. So he eventually hops on to that. And he's going to make it for, uh, for, um, Columbia, uh, but would once make it black and white, clubby is like, no, we can know. I don't care what your name is Tim, Tim, uh, Burton, uh, we are not making a black and white movie. So the film goes into turn around as that's like all of this stuff's happening up the same time at this point. Um, so he leaves for sure and he gets, he's has this and he's like, I'm taking somewhere else. All the studios want it. Everybody else is like, we know it's in bird name. We respect his name. Fox wants it. Universal wants it. Everybody wants it. He goes to Disney because Disney's like, we can make this give you a handful of money and let you have creative control in birds. Like, I like creative control. Like you guys fire be a long time ago. You remember that? By the way, um, black and white, like when you did Frankenwini. Yeah, that thing that you fired before. We don't talk. That's, that was a different regime. Um, so yeah, so he gets, he gets the budget that he's, he could use any, any, any, any gets on Ed Wood. Um, and obviously, uh, Steven Freers goes on to make a beer. Um, so, you know, and the rest is history there, a movie that we definitely know and talk about and love for next month's commentary, uh, summer in October. Right. Right. Right. This aren't over. We'd be the first three people to watch it in years. Uh, Michael layman still gets a executive producer credit by the way on this. He's on the, you can see his name on the flying saucer that appears in the opening credit sequence. Um, so all of that. Yeah. And by the way, at one point, this is always going to be a documentary. Um, the, the, the Alexander, because there's, there's going to be like just the world of Ed wood and whatnot. They want to make wood, the man in the Angora sweater, which is a documentary. It's a good time. Um, but they prevailed this way. It's a, uh, depth signs on immediately. Normally we do like a whole like, you know, who could have been cast in these roles or whatnot. There's not a lot out here. Um, as far as what other potentials they had, depth was like intent. He saw this 10 minutes later. He's like, I'm fucking in. Give me this right away. I'm happy to work on it. He was apparently very depressed at this point because his career was not going anywhere interesting for him as an actor. He took a long time to launch. He also just broke up with, went on a writer, uh, who was going to star him here. Of course, as we established, um, so, so depth was, uh, he was invigorated to do this at work of Martin Landau and all that. Um, Landau gets on board, obviously, and he, uh, he studies all, like, I would just be able to go. He swatches like a bunch of his films and gets all ready to be prepped for this, all the labor makeup and stuff is done. Um, but otherwise the only one that I found was that Deborah winger turned down Sarah Jessica Parker's role as Dolores. Well, shame. That's the one thing that, uh, that didn't occur here. Um, uh, depth, like, this is my favorite Johnny depth performance and role. Uh, and I was always like, I have to be the fucking hipster here, but I was a big fan of him before Captain Jack Sparrow. Just like, I was a gigantic John Robert A junior fan before Iron Man, but, um, depth I was always rooting for back then. Like, he was a guy. You didn't get the same thing every time out. Um, like, Nick, a time is a weird movie because he's playing it just such a normal, straight character. I always champion that movie. It's a, and that was his explicit attempt to make a mainstream picture. Right. That was his version of, I'm going to be an action hero sort of, I mean, it is a mainstream picture. And in both cases, both depth in irons and downy junior in Iron Man, the hook was that these non blockbusters, very quirky idiosyncrasic, you know, very unique actors were taking these leading roles in these giant budget studio action, adventure franchise films. You can argue that's the same case for most of the non-action star actors that did this, right? Thinkless Cage, Matt Damon. Now, granted, good Matt Damon is not as quirky as a Slater. But yeah, I mean, but, you know, as opposed to the muscle up 80s, right? We're, we move into this phase, right? We were talking about, I think even that comparatively was weirder because Depp had set a reputation to be these weird, golden goofy indie films that nobody outside the bubble saw. And same thing with downy junior, I'm even, you know, it's certainly more in line with a kid. Everyone had a new wind like him and knew that he was an interesting presence, but it's not like heart and souls with a giant smash hit. It's, it's certainly more in line with Cage than a Damon. Cage is obviously, has a lot of things going on before he's like, and now I'll start on three action movies in a row in 96 and I will, I will come up, I'll start three in a row, take the crown, take the belt and then drop the mic. That's what he did. That's what Cage did. It was more like, I guess I can't just keep doing intellectual dramas. I need to actually do something different. I guess Ben was right. That's what he said. He said, I guess Ben was right. And then he turned his franchise into a winner. But he also did the Oceans movie, which isn't really an action franchise, but has the same kind of hype to go with that. Well, he, yeah, yeah. He gets to sit in the category. Yeah. And he's also blend the nerdy character in that. And I think we talked about this recently. He replaced Mark Wahlberg at the last second. Like I was Mark Wahlberg's role. And Damon came in and it's like, I'll do it. And I don't, I can't picture Wahlberg doing that role. Look at that way to be like, I guess I'll be second fiddle to Brad Pitt and George Clooney. I feel like Wahlberg would just want it the whole time. Anyway, this movie. And very, you can't see Martin Landau anywhere. Like, just makeup piece. This, yeah, those are the two Oscars at one makeup and best supporting actor. Um, I love this scene right here, by the way, where he, where he's tried to scare the little boy and then it would, Edward pulls his teeth. It's like, look at this. Well, makeup. So they, they weren't going to do Landau because he didn't look like Legosi. And then the makeup was like, no, we're doing it because we're going to want to Oscar for making him look like Legosi. Like, Rick Baker, Rick Baker. Yeah. But he took it on because, yeah, he's like, no, I'm where I'm, we'll make him look like it. That's why we want to let Landau. It really is like, I'm so invested in watching him in this movie that I really don't think about the fact that he's wearing makeup, which is like, like, I, I guess, yes, like, I don't necessarily see Martin Landau, but I'm so like, wrapped up in the fact that he's doing such a great job. I'm like, that's Martin Land. But he's amazing in this. Like, he's so good. And like, yeah, you're, you're not wrong at all. Like, it's, it's really remarkable. And it's a, we'll talk about the Oscars later, but like, this, it's a crazy year where it's like, well, what do you think of like, how did this guy lose? Like, because we'll look at all this competition, like around all these things. That's usually, that's a lot of times the case, you know, like. Well, even, you know, nine years later, I would argue, had it come out earlier, or had it not been the first year where the Oscars were earlier than usual, I think big fish might have been more of a contender than it was. Now, because when it eventually opened, everybody really liked it. It just sort of was playing by the old scheduling rules. And by the time it opened, I mean, obviously, we turned the king was going to sweep everything anyway. So it's almost beside the point. But in terms of nominations, at least it might have put up a big, a better show. Perhaps there's always what it could is with those kind of things, with those late in the year, because like, million dollar baby, the next the year later is like, that just comes in out of nowhere. If it sweeps every day, like it comes in at the very end of the year. And you know, it's it's I'm just talking right now, I mean, the first two big festivals have ended. And I mean, Dune is probably still the front runner by default. So unless you used to what does it again with juror number two, or rappers and megas is here turned out to be fucking amazing. You know, it's it's, you know, we are lacking a flat runner beyond the big studio picture from earlier in the year. Um, here does have a nice bumping with it ends with us. So that might be a people's champion. But, um, definitely. Yeah, and this was, sorry, yeah, this was interesting, because this was the first time Burton had gotten these kind of reviews in terms of Oscar talk. And even a lot of his earlier films that we think of as classics now, I mean, he was sort of on the fence in the early years, for example, he was not big on Beatles use. He was not big on either Batman picture. He's barely there for Edward Scissorhands. He's like, I guess it works. Yeah, he and I both agree on how much we hate the ending, but whatever. I think the movie is good despite that. I'm like, I think Scissorhands is good, but it's not one that I revisit very often. So every time you say, I hate the ending, it take, I still can't think exactly what is the ending again? Like, what's the? Scott Scott's team, Anthony Michael Hall. Yes, yes. Clearly. Back when I think Michael is really good at it. He just wanted to make sure evil died tonight back when he was walking back when he was really good at identifying who the villain is when he looked at him. This short balding man is Michael Myers. He there is. He looked exactly like I pictured him. That day to be no fella. Let's get him. That's clearly evil. It shall die tonight. Lori Strong even fell for the same trick. And I think it's very good in this picture. In that she plays a character that could easily be made to be sort of a villain because she's constantly disapproving and or distraught by her role in the story. But I think the film has enough sympathy for her and she is good enough that it doesn't come off as her being villainized. Or at least that's how I even when I first saw the film when I was 14, it's like I get it. This is not the life she signed up for and at one point, you know, eventually she's had enough. I'll put it this way. I don't think she's necessarily bad in this film. I wouldn't rank her very high by comparison. I think that's not her fault. I do think that's I feel like the screen plays taking a few shortcuts with Dolores for the sake of we need to have a character that's you know, quote unquote normal. And that just by default makes her seem kind of shrewish. Well, the thing like Sarah Jessica Parker as an actress is always like and especially at this point was like, like acquired to, I don't know, not just like an instant like, oh, yeah, type person. And then she gets contrasted with Patricia Arquette, who's instantly lovable in everything she's in at this point, like. So it's easy to just cast her writing to an extent, though, as far as how it was like, I'm designed to root for Ed, right? And all the people Ed's associated with like, I can Scott, I get what you're saying as far as I can, I can have empathy for the situation she's found herself within. But I still think the film was requiring her as an actress to play someone where you're like, she says, no, therefore, I'm not with her. I have to agree with people. Oh, no, I agree with you. I just think the film does its job in terms of making sure she's not the villain of the story. I guess that's I waited until you finished your movie. But now I'm gone because your movie's done. I do think she has sharp moments when she has to play like, because she gets recast. So she has her small role and she makes the meal out of it. That's funny. That's that's good. I do think that the movie does a good job of making the audience member feel a part of like Ed's troupe because you're kind of like you see the fun you see, but you also are like, he's kind of a jacket or he'll, you know, he might stab me in the bed. You know, like you kind of get these discomforting moments or you see him be a weasel and said like, it doesn't shy away from that. But you're also like, I'm kind of like, I'm gonna stick around for a bit longer, you know, like, just say weasel. I mean, I, in terms of like the things that he accomplished, it's a fault. Some of them. Yeah. I don't think there's ever any beloved in some of the things he's doing. There's progress, perhaps like he's guerrilla filmmaking, and that requires us to get his movie made first and foremost. And there are, he's not the most, he's not evil. He's just got his way about it that gets to some cringy, you know, solutions and compromises at times. But yeah, that's, and but you feel it good. But you don't want to leave him. And that's what I'm saying when it's saying the movie isn't lying, either him, despite the fact that there is this like, Scott, you just said this kind of idealism that comes from his attitude and the way the film wants to give you a constantly peppy sort of guy who gets pushed, who does get pushed to limits. But it is celebrating every single thing he does. Right. I mean, they don't, they, they forgo is alcoholism with this movie. But yeah, I mean, what are we going to sit and, you know, we want to see him make the movies. Yeah, I mean, we already have a legacy doing heroin and shit, the whole movie. So like, it'd be too much of a doubter. And it's the same thing. It's like, oh, man, it would have been really great to see Robert Dutty Jr. do a bunch of booze as Iron Man. Yeah, that would have really compelled the story. That's that. It's so, it's so terrible. We didn't get to see demon in a bottle play out in full because there's one thing I want to see in, you know, in May summer blockbusters, it's an, an overlogged subplot about alcoholism with Iron Man. Oh, the Andrew Garfield movie, the Andrew Garfield movies are doing Gwen Stacy. I can't wait to watch her die. Yeah. But at least the entire movie isn't about her dying. Like this would be like, oh, Iron Man, what's he doing? Is he stopping whiplash? No, he took a few swigs of the fucking tequila bottle again. Hey, look, look, you got to get yourself back in the game, Tony. It's the X-Men with Wolverine, Iceman, Cyclops, and Jean Grey. Cool. We can watch her become the Phoenix and die. I can't wait to show the world when I read in a comic book. Yeah. You're watching a cartoon when I was 10. Oh, not just die, but slowly realize that she's having power consuming her and it's creating a dramatic shift in her relationship with Scott and all this stuff. Thomas Wayne is in Joker. I can't wait to watch him die. Like that shift. Is there? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go with this route. Batman, it's a Tim Burton property from his past where the Waynes died. I love this little look here where you see Bella, his arm out. He has all these track marks and the makeup guys like, oh boy, but he gives it a simple like, all right. Yeah, it's in practice. This is some good shit. It's not just like a theatrical performance by by Lando. It's in Derry. It's on like it's there's depth to that. Just sitting there like, yeah, so I have needles marks in my arm and he's not just a caricature. He for a moment, you see him like, Oh, I hope this doesn't cost me the job, but yeah. There's a lot. There's like, there's a lot. There's a lot of just like within the face covered in makeup. You're seeing the you're seeing the acting. You're seeing that. Yeah, but there's more than just streaming people. It's more than just a big like, here's our take on Bella. It has there's residents. I mean, this is up. You know, in addition to a biopic, it is a comedy. So you are going to put what if Legosi really, you know, got pissed about a carloft that, you know, but it's funny. He because, you know, you can argue here at this point in his career, Legosi had played for any assigned monster. So he did that role, too. Granted, he played it with lines and stuff that were cut from the movie because it was hokey. So he was trying to do something different, but as far as we can see. Um, then I remember when I first saw this, this was Burton's first R rated picture. Yep. And it was generally, I don't want to say jolting because that's overselling it to see a Tim Burton film where people used R rated language because his films were so somewhat stylized up to this point. And that's an ongoing thing for me at least. Like when I first saw a big fish, it was always, it was almost jolting to see a Tim Burton movie that was clearly set on earth with real office buildings and real people wearing real suits and doing normal shit. Yeah, it was still fantasy. I had to remember that it has those things for a second there. Oh, yeah, that's right. It does have Billy crud up being like, Oh, my dad, so mean. It's entirely in a bathtub. Oh, my dad, he makes me so sorry, he tells his story. Anyway, buy a credit card or whatever the fuck I was advertising back. You're in get. Oh, no, that was David Hatesburg. He's a good answer. He said they had that line. Everybody knew it. I'm trying. What's the line is? What's the car? What was the car? Is it American Express? Yeah, well, sorry. Yeah, but it wasn't don't leave home without it. It was a different. Well, no, that's that's the immortal life for Batman. When they had the Jason lives at the part where they were like, they left a pause in the movie. So an audience member would hopefully smash your card priceless, priceless. There it is. You're right. Remember all this other stuff? This thing? Priceless, priceless. Some things money can't buy, but everything else. It's me fucking Billy credibility to get a master card. Also, I'm on drugs. It's OK. Here's that libel. He has a fellow period and now he's won multiple that he's for Billy. Billy credit show. Billy credit did show us that while you can't replace and recast the flash, you can recast his father. Oh boy, we don't need to get into the history of Billy credit. But let's just say he's got some things that happens. Oh, I mean, he was one of those guys in the mid 90s that Hollywood thought was going to be sort of another dumb girl. Not just talking about his career as a movie star. I mean, in terms of like his personal life, but it's fine. I'm sure it's terrible. I don't know. This is like this scene, the iconic imagery here where she hands him the sweater and everything. There's a number of like, obviously, like these memorable moments in Ed Wood, but like in terms of like interesting uses of the cinematography or whatnot, that it's no wonder that that scene like is a movie poster image. It stands out so strikingly. And part of that is because it's just the black and lights and photography, the bras very whites. And like, you know, it just has all this stuff going on that kind of encapsulates a lot of what Ed Wood's all about that I certainly appreciate. Well, like the, I mean, the way they capture it looks like you can feel it like that sweater, which is not everyone could have captured that essence. Yeah, the, you know, her back as it's happening. And the fact, and the other thing that's neat about this movie where Ed Wood is, you walk into this movie knowing Ed Wood is the worst director ever. Like that's, that's, yeah, that's the given you're going in knowing is like, what's this movie about? It's about this guy who sucked like that's the idea. But like this movie, while it's not explicitly saying like, and Glen or Glenda was great and they just didn't get it. It's not saying that at all. It's recognizing that these are bad movies. And yet the energy that you see for what he's actually making these movies, there is a sort of reverence that Burton certainly has for them, right? He's like, well, that's the thing. All into it. You see, yeah. Ed doesn't think they're bad. And he never let's, you know, like Ed stays competent. Like he is, like he is Howard Hawks here. Like that's what he, you know, like he never forgets that. There's no tongue and cheek. Ed, Ed, you see Ed rewriting in his mind why something like the famous scene where Tor Johnson goes through and knocks the wall and he's like, well, don't you think he'd in life? He'd have a hard time, you know, like that. You would struggle with that every day. Yeah, he would struggle with that every day. So, but the walls wouldn't shake every day. But that wouldn't bother him as long as he got it done. He got in, and you, and because as an audience, you accept that, but you also know how silly it is. And it's a balance that not everybody gets. And I mean, they make, I mean, there's another, you know, there's the disaster artist, which is trying to cover this territory with time that James Franco did with about Tommy was so. And that's kind of a movie that everybody knows is sucking and you kind of get that vibe as that movie shooting it rather than a lot of people's belief as they're doing this stuff. And he's bringing in the thing with this one is Ed Wood's bringing misfits together to try to collectively create some nice art and stuff. And that's sort of the power of this movie is their teamwork. And that's the separation between Ed Wood and the disaster and disaster artist, which is a very funny movie, but it doesn't, it doesn't have nearly the kind of reverence that that Ed Wood does where there's an ad. So yeah, there's an adoration that Tim Burton does still have for these films, which is the difference on like I've always explained, like Mr. Seier 3000. Those guys actually like those things. They have an appreciation for them when they're riffing and stuff that I don't, I think it's lost among the, you know, later internet crowd and stuff like that. It's not, it's not a hate fest. It's like, it's that fun, you know, we get this, but you know, they're they enjoy them in a way. Oh, yeah, it's a it's a back and as you go back and it's your miss your misplate. Some are misplacing they're they're replacing the the reference for cynicism and making that inherently fun. That's and that honestly, that separates a lot of podcasts that it was into or whether it's where it's like, yeah, you can clearly tell if there is just a sense of we're making fun of this because we're making fun of this versus we're having fun with this thing and we're analyzing it through a means of comedy. In that, I mean, and that's, you know, that's what dissuades me from watching so much YouTube stuff out there with the cinema. I think it's the difference between, you know, why honest trailers is much, much better than cinema sense. Do you even that kind of old for me? Yes, I can I can agree that there's a they do their homework. Yes, there's an effort being put into what's going on as opposed to just a we're pointing at stuff and we're training audiences to hate things because why not? I don't think some of them's intent was to train, but that's how the audience has started to like, oh, they said that then that's like, no, it's just like, hey, but in that kind of a funny aspect we saw here, it creates a mentality. Yeah, and it creates even going back to, you know, 1980, which is when Ed Wood was unofficially named the worst director of all time. I think my dad's only own, but he'd have to double check me on that, where, you know, going back and watching these pictures, which I did after seeing this movie, I'm not going to say they're good by any stretch of the imagination, but they are sincere. They are they think, you know, unlike a lot of just fucking make it and and get it out there and hope to God it makes money, he really thought he was making great art. On one hand, that may in some way make them worse, but on the other hand, you know, he there is a certain respect for the idea that he thought he was making, you know, a, you know, Highland Earth or, or the, the forbidden, yeah, forbidden planet of, you know, where he thought he was making a big, great movie about the perils of nuclear destruction, you know, and if you ever so like people think Ed Wood's bad, I would watch an Ed Wood movie easily and hit the week over a Coleman Francis, one of his three movies, because if you ever seen Red Zone, Red Zone Kubo or Beast of Yaka Flat, like, at least there's character and some sort of pulse on Ed Wood's movies. Yeah, that's funny because if you watch enough direct to DVD garbage, Ed Wood movies almost become aspirational, that being said, when you watch enough great to DVD garbage, I, you know, you become less believing in them, you know, the sort of the overall theme of this movie in which is better to make something that not have made anything at all. You know, after you watch enough Pirates of Ghost of Iron Island or the latest Yui LaMell glorified snuff film, you know, I'm started thinking more like Jared Lita, Lord of War, where, you know, maybe it's better to do nothing than to do this. What a reference. It's only stuck out to me for that reason. The third most important character Lord Ed Lord and popular movie Lord of War. I champion Lord of War. I love the Lord of War, but it's like the movie. Like I'm barely coming up with the ending of Edward Scissorheads and you're getting me Lord of War. We're deep dive in here. We're deep dive in here tonight. Coleman Francis. Well, Coleman Francis is that's that's worthy of sticking up with this, but just real quick because we passed it over to scenes. Bill Murray's not in this movie much. And when he signed on, like they expanded his character even more because he's Bill Murray. Everything he does in this cracks me up. I think he's so funny as Bunny, a bunny beggar is like, his baptism is one of the funniest things. Oh my god, his deliveries are just so and this is exactly like what I want from like, like, you know, obviously like Groundhog's days of class or whatnot. But like, you think back to earlier Bill Murray stuff and like the lead things are one thing, but like him and like Tootsie, he is so fucking funny, like just knocking out like bit moments in the end that film. And here, this is like a perfect deployment of him or especially like the 90s where it's like, you can get a larger life where you can get this. This is so good. I think that's why he likes working with West Anderson so much. Yeah. He you know, it's always on some on his back. And yeah, like Grant's been live aquatics by favorite film of his. Yeah, I mean, yeah. But he still gets to be that. Like that's the thing, like his West Anderson lead isn't like a typical. It's not a traditional. Yeah. Yeah. He's the West Anderson is going up to Bill Murray and saying, do that Bill Murray stuff. He's like, here's a character, like play this. Yeah, you play small characters and like all of them. Like it's that's why I'm pretty sure like, you know, and probably just jar mush as well, too. Jar Bushes, but yeah, he's just like, yeah, I'll come on for a couple. That's him. He is like the same spirit as like Alfred Molina where it's like, I'll be eighth build. Sure. Like, why not? This was during a very, I don't know how I want to say brief, but it's like sort of post Groundhog Day free rush more where Bill Murray wasn't in a ton of stuff. No, not because he was underemployed or anything. He was partially by choice for sure. What he wanted to get a man who knew too little something was kind of an event. But that was around the same time as Rushmore, wasn't it? Give it like 98? Man who knew too little. Yeah, there's that there's that run where it's like larger than life. Man and who do too little where it's just like, I mean, I guess he's doing these. He shows up in Space Jam for no particular reason, but whatever. He shows up in Space Jam because they're like filming the scenes already when they happen to be golfing and he's like, hey, can I jump in? Can I jump into the scene? Oh, I guess you need me to the rest of the movie now. Fine. I guess I can do a couple days in the green screen room that you're filming this. Cis and Kane and Dracula, right? You know, like that's perfect encapsulation. Perfect encapsulation of what he wants to be, but. Oh, see this and it's I will get up at the list now. It's it's a pretty interesting time for Murray because it's after the the contractual obligation as Ghostbusters to which he was dreading doing. It's quick change, which is his like co-director. That movie's awesome, which is great. Yeah, what about what about Bob, which fucking rules? Groundhog Day, which is obviously a classic. Then there's Mad Dog and Glory where he and De Niro like switch parts where it's like at first it's going to be Bill Murray is like the random guy who falls in love and De Niro is like a mob boss and De Niro is like, I've done this. Let's switch. So Bill Murray plays a mob boss and then he beats up in Europe. I'm sure movies would do that. You get that every now and again, but you know, it would be so much better if like Morgan Freeman was the killer and Gene Ackman was the cop. But anyway, yeah, so that Edward comes along. Kingpin comes along, which is just like this. Every scene in Kingpin is fucking hysterical with Bill Murray in it. Then yeah, then it gets this. It's only a couple though because it's largely a life spaceships, whatever, and he's, you know, man who do's a little, but then it's the same thing, wild things, which he's hilarious. Oh, for yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Why? Where he's like, of all the people to show up in this movie right now, you're like, Bill Murray is the lawyer. That's perfect. Then, yeah, then it's, you know, Rushmore. It's still a lot of that same stuff. He doesn't really get a lead and get until like, yeah, like broken flowers, right? That's like really, he's like, Breton say lots of translation. Sorry. It was last in translation starts his little bit of, I'm not going to smile in movies anymore, FaZe. Yeah. And then, then it gets out. I must say, well, I think he got the respect that he had been quote unquote looking for ever since Rayzer's edge. He's still going to smile very much since. Well, that's what I mean, but you know, he gets that money, you know, the seriousness that he kind of wanted, because I would argue in retrospect, he thought he was going to, you know, he thought Mad Dog and Glory was going to be sort of a breakout in terms of how he's viewed, you know, in terms of what he can do as an actor. Because it's just, it's just, it's just, it's the same year as Groundhog Day, which he, despite the success of that movie, he famously wasn't super happy with that production of my film. And I will say, even though you can totally tell he doesn't want to be in him and be there in frozen empire, Gus, Gus was president here, my favorite part where Ray talks about quitting smoking and he goes proud of you then. Proud of you now. I was like, all right, that's the first Ghostbusters cameo he makes where he's not actively destroying the movie. So that's a help right there. 2016, I felt like he was kind of wanting to be there, even though it's like, you're not, no, this is not the work we want, man. I mean, he just kills that movie's momentum. Yeah, he goes to stop that movie. And then, yeah, after life is just like, I guess I'll just say these lines. Is that the direction? Yeah, yeah, yeah, Little Raven. Yes. And hold it this way. Was it you that I talked to about in the match list that like a lot of Murray's lines in frozen empire see what they were written, Robert Moranis on the hopes he would come back. Who knows? It's not like they're smart movies, but I like the sequence it was back to Ed Wood. I like the secrets. They just on this whole spiel with the ghost of bombing and whatnot, which didn't really happen. And then, well, we have to talk about Jeffrey Jones a little bit, but like this Chris walled character because it was 21 years ago. Okay, this could Scott, we don't need to record you try to defend anything. I'm defending us being able to talk about him. Okay, fine. This character comes out, he's immediately like, join our posse. Join our posse of weirdos. And it was like, of course, we will. And it just takes this movie to a new direction that where he has this like new band of people to hang out with. Well, this is like, of the moment, like he's a fan of his movie, right? He's like, yeah, and your head would have gled and gled and I'm like, okay, yeah. It's a span of misfits that are, you know, like not even of their, you know, they're known, but like they're probably like dealersters of their era and then for caution. But Chris, well, like he, uh, he did, did he, Chris will write, um, or directed the orgy of the dead has Ed Wood's name on it. And it was written by Wood. He's in it. Yeah. He's in it. Okay. That's yeah. He's like one of the main star and that is the most boring piece. Like that one is. Oh, it's bad. Um, and also to make sure it's the amazing Chris. Well, let's be clear. He's okay. The Brown Derby, is that the same one from like swingers for big bad voodoo? Yeah. It's a famous. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, uh, one time I went there to go check it out. Um, there was like a private party for P2D there. And I was like, nah, no thanks. I've got some rest tonight. And you missed out on the party of a lifetime where everybody's life changed for the better. I did. It's going to pray with mace. Uh, he's got the mustache now. Yes. He's got the pencil mustache. Um, what are we going to say? Oh, the, the idea of the whole meeting with Chris well, and he's like immediately that does, that does feel like a thing where like Tim Burton might have experienced a similar path. It's like, Oh, I thought it was a cool crowd I can hang out with. I wonder if he and he invented price since they were buddies. Like if that something similar happened, where it's like, Hey, we're at the parties now. Let's go hang out with some people. Let me find like a group. Well, I know like, so like, um, I believe in Dana Gould, he said, uh, during early times in Hollywood, he like ended up befriending, um, vampire, and like had a like, kind of like Ed Wood, um, Bella, the ghosty relationship with her, where he like, get her groceries, stuff like that. And time like to help take care of her. But like, he's like, she was like forever bitter about Elvira. Like, badly. He's like, she, she died a grumpy woman. But when I was young and saw this movie, I, I only like knew of vampire and Elvira as far as like, okay, they're like, that's their deal. And that's what they do. Yeah, I've still, I've still never seen like an Elvira movie, but, um, oh, they're not bad. Both of them are all right. But the idea of like what they are, like, I just, I didn't, it wasn't occurred to me that that's like two different people. Right. Well, I mean, you've got, you've got, um, Morticia Adams, and then you have, um, uh, what's her name and monster. Um, it's just kind of a look that, you know, vampire, very, very people granted vampire was a horror host. Elvira was a horror host, but it was sort of a look and Elvira did like a throwback thing and she, Elvira took off. And that's what I'm getting. That's more like, because I could recognize as a child that like, yes, there's the monsters and they added like that. That's a very, that's like, an Elvira and vampire. That's like a play on that kind of a thing. But the idea that there were two horror hosts reliant on the fact that they're like goth and bucks them. And when it's like, it wasn't occurring to me as like, this isn't the same hike. How long has Elvira been around? Like I don't know exactly. It wasn't like getting to me. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I mean, Elvira takes off doing like course, like commercials to read it. Like she's everywhere in marketing, gets two movies. I believe there's two movies and stuff and has a nice fad wave and you know, she's still around. It feels similar to that. What is it that Angeline? What is that? Was that one thing with the billboards? I mean, Ross and plan or like that, that series. Like, yeah. This is funny. Sarah Jessica Parker is tossing stuff. She's getting your head. But yeah, there's kind of, but the 15 minutes of fame type of thing for these random starlets that don't really seem to do anything beyond exist as a persona, which I guess predates a lot of what celebrity is now. Well, like, but there actually was results from the things that vampire they're like 30 years of like reality shows to go to. Yeah, they're 30 years apart, too. But everybody had their local horror host. And Elvira was LA's. But like, she ended up being nationally syndicated. Chicago has fanguli here in Indianapolis. We had Sammy Terry. They are ones all over the place because you get your local area would have these movie packages and they throw the horror ones on Saturday USA. They had up all night. They had Rhonda Sheer hosting on Fridays, Gilbert Gottfried on Saturdays. Remember this? Yeah. It's host things. And there, you know, there's Joe Bob Briggs, like that's Joe Bob. Yeah. Elvira is just one of the most popular of those. That's where she falls in. And then because she's good at that, she hosts that she is an MC. You have her new events. You have her be a spokesperson for, you know, I know, I know, like one of the beers, what she did that, she did all sorts of things. So she's a personality. That's also, she has a character. No one knew her as Cassandra Peterson. They let's just do her as a virus. She was trying to be an actor as Cassandra Peterson. She's in some movies. She got the lead. Yeah, everybody. Yeah. That's what happened to her. But Samanguli, he's still around. Sammy Terry is now played by the actor Pass but he's his son. He's still the stuff around here. And he does drive in intros and and does fun things like that. But people still have it's a it's indeed saying like Joe Bob Briggs is on like season six on shutter of his last drive in that used to be on TBS or TNT monster vision. So like yeah, that's a some of them rose to ranks in syndication. Others just stayed local. By the way, I think this is the one scene where Martin Landau and Juliet Landau are together to some extent. Just need to see the land. Do you even make the connection that his daughter is in his movie next to him? Yes. Oh, there it is. I knew we're from Buffy. So I figured okay, this must have been an early role for her or whatever. And Josh was inspired by her performance in this movie to meet up with her for Drew Silla. And he was a media taken by her. And he's like, you should be in our show. And they did. She's criminally underused. So I really like her presence, but she's not in a lot of stuff. She has a lot of audio drama stuff though. I didn't know that a lot of the Buffy stars kind of do with scenes, which is interesting. So there's a character is one of my favorite and Doctor Who called Romana. She's a female time lord and she's there was two iterations on the TV show. She plays the third iteration through audio dramas. So I know that and she's done some I think she does some dark shows. Well, that sounds pretty woke to me, Brandon, but it's fair, I guess. Yeah. But I would say, I was just saying, I'm spinning off of the alvira. You could probably say Bozo the clown similar thing, but for kids, he would have cartoon like his show was based around the syndicated cartoons that your network showing. So you just toss him in the bookends of things like that. And he'd have game shows stuff like that. We had Happy the Hobo in Fort Wayne, Indiana when I was growing up. But I didn't have the like, I was beyond when those things were like more prevalent. But what I did have was the parody of that on a living color, which was, of course, homie the clown, homie the cloud. Yeah, homie don't play that. Yeah. Homie don't play that. Like, that's my that's my gateway into knowing what Bozo is the fact that homie the cloud was yeah. And then I had because like, there's the thing with weird house movie UHF has a lot of references to things like that from back in the day, because he ran a network that was based around creating their own shows like regional television shows too. That's a whole nother thing that was going on that doesn't happen anymore. The obvious example, Krusty the clown. Yep. Krusty. Yeah. Krusty. Yeah. Krusty is another obvious one where like I I threw osmosis from those things. That's how I know what the Bozo that's a Simpsons is such a gateway for everything. That's how I know so much of citizen came before you see citizen, because we made half of that movie within the Simpsons. Right. Same with Godfather. Do they still do that? Do I have a Simpsons still like have random citizen Kane and Godfather references? I'd love to know about those. They certainly do because the writers have graduated at this point. Up culture. So it's not just, you know, very recent references. Yeah. But, you know, I, it's not family. I was watching that all the time. If he has a choice, the matter and you know, are the later season as good as four through nine? No, but there's still every time I sit down and watch one, I'm always completely entertained. The next next year smash hit. I love that gag. Go back to the Brown Derby next year. That's a Simpsons gag in itself. Oh yeah. There's the go see. Hmm. And this movie also demonstrates the difficulty of making a film. As well, low budget, big budget, shooting illegally, gorilla, trying to get money from people, random people, the influence of the people with money, like, it's pretty honest in a ground level way that anyone watching it could learn a little bit about movie making watching this one. Now, it's interesting. You mentioned what you're right about. You know, the cast of Buffy and Angel for that matter that saving the glee. I'm always shocked at saying how talented they were. They not a lot of them really broke out one on the bigger. I mean, regularly went on to bigger and better things. Weirdly enough, I would argue offhand that biggest breakout was, you know, Melissa Benoit from season four, who was, you know, the lead after the fact, if that makes sense. I feel like I feel like Jane Lynch might be the best breakout from Glee who's already the show. She was already pretty. She was a good four year old virgin was before Glee, right? Or was because that was her like, Oh, we knew she I would argue we knew who she was. I'm partially I saw the fugitive. I know who she is. I'm partially kidding. And she's a regular Christopher guest person as well. But in terms of like who feels like they who feels like their their name is synonymous with like, I know that person's most of their name is synonymous with specifically Glee. It feels like Jane Lynch just became a kind of larger audience from that where she probably got a second wind off of it. I'll give yes, I would agree, which I never watched Glee. So I know there's Rance Howard. So I have I have a little frame of reference anyway. But we will Buffy and what Hannigan and Boreana has probably became the largest star off of it because he's been on TV regularly. Boreana's is definitely the richest person. Oh, yeah. He's the richest person in Hollywood. I looked. I casually looked up bones and I'm like, I was off from 2006 to 2017. And for that, he jumped. Well, he jumped. Like it was unseal team or whatever. He's done. He's like five years. This is all network shed. It's that she is. So he's he's set for life on that one. And all the valentines, royalties. That's tens of extra dollars. And the pro three royalties. Yeah. He's doing Rance Howard's knocking it out while we're making fun of the more you had us for being successful, by the way. Yes. Right. And import Dave, more you had us said like Nathan Fillion are like ultimate TV guys that are just never like gonna be down. But Fillion took forever to get hits though. That was it. But then once you did. And nobody watched him anymore. He got castle and everybody's like, yeah, you say nobody. I mean, no, but like, you know, the million people, the Fillion people did, but normal people. They got it. You want us to watch this regular television? What the hell? Well, and then like James Marsters, you thought he'd have busted out, but they kept putting him in genre stuff. They're like, that's all he got. He went to Torchwood. He went to like Stargate, didn't he? Or he's the villain in Dragon Ball Evolution? Yeah. See, that's what they did. They just kept putting him in genre, genre, genre. Maybe that's his choices he wants to make. But I don't, I mean, it's, it's choices as far as like, they're certainly comfortable taking certain roles, but at the same time, there's guys that you just know are TV people that that film is not the place for them. Yeah. That's not to be mean. That's right. That's what I met with like Marsters. Like he could have, like, he never got put on something regular to try out or something like that. He was, he guessed it on stuff, but when Andre Broward passed away last year, that was my thought is that he was just a Titan of a TV star. And he was fine in movies, obviously he's an actor. He was a character actor. Ted, Ted Danson is a gigantic TV star. But he was just a Mount Rushmore of television stars. But anyway, it's, yes. This is John Johnson was a big TV star. This is a whole different area, but like, yeah. They're Jessica Parker is a TV star. Jessica Parker has a plenty of hits as a movie star as well. I mean, he's just, but the offer TV show. Yeah. How many of those Hugh Grant movies were making money and all that nonsense and everything else she was doing? Honeymoon in Vegas, the arguments I generally make, though, it's like Brian Cranston doesn't belong in movies anymore. He's like, I don't think he's very good in the. It's wild, the contrast. I am in this, this, this craziness of he sat in the bathtub. So let's give an Oscar nomination kills me every time I think about it. And then John Ham is struggling for me to be a relevant movie star, but he's a amazing on television. So I don't know. It was great. And baby driver. And Fletch. I think he has his moments, but, you know, the kind of movies that used to be old school star vehicles are fewer and farther between something like Beru. Beru mentioned Beirut. And I think Beirut sucks. That's my problem. Well, I think he's good. And I find, you know, for me, it's just watching him for two hours do his thing. Um, I'm not gonna say it's a good movie, but no, but I don't think he, we don't need to talk this much about the root of John Ham. Speaking of movie stars, Jeffrey Jones, is he coming off stay tuned? This is where he wanted to go from John Ham. Yes, he is. Yeah, he's gonna stay tuned with John Ritter, who had worked with the writers on problem child. Huh, interesting. Yeah, I brought it all back, guys. The other, the other notable presence here that I wanted to make note of is Max Casella. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Do okay. How's your buddy? And this is because I recently learned this because I was like, there's a period where Max Casella is in a lot of things, looking all young and baby faced. And then there's a period later on where he becomes like a character actor in the room of like a David Crumles, where he has a very specifically, he looks like a character actor. Yeah, I was wondering, what did this transition happen? Cause he's so baby faced in, in, in Ed Wood. I can tell you why. He did not reach puberty until he was 27. They're like, Oh my God. Yeah. Like a, he had like a specific condition that prevented him from like growing up essentially. Yeah. Like, so he went through a massive physical change. And that's why he suddenly emerged later on in his career. And he looks like a much older person despite not being that old, like he's 57 now, like, you know, and I was like, why? And then I like just looked into it. It's like, Oh, that's why like, he literally, like I do distinct phases of his career based on health. Like it's, it's because like here, he's so very specifically young. He looks like a kid that happens to be working in the troop of Ed Wood. And then I get to like inside Lewin Davis. And he's like a, you know, a bartender with a mustache who has a very specific voice. Like it's, it's wild. Does he have like, rough macho disease or something? Machio just has money. That's the, that's right. He's, he's just spent his money well that Eddie, Eddie doesn't get this. He didn't have like a weird dark period where like, you know, have his face like freezes and whatever. He just, you know, he just aged and spent the money wisely. Have this looks fine. This scene encapsulates like low budget filmmaking. This is great. I love this. This is just the ridiculousness of what it looks like, not like when you're behind from behind the camera on the set and just like everything playing it, like it. Yeah. You mean the final product won't look the same as what you see in a random picture from a Halloween haunted house attraction? You sound crazy. That's what the wolf bed should look like. That is, that's why Joe Johnston's version that he eventually directed. It doesn't work because Anthony Hopkins didn't look like that at the end. Would have been a lot cheaper. But Brandon, yeah, this movie encapsulates the entire movie easily because it's not, it's not just like we're going to have this octopus thing, which I think is fucking hysterical. It's that he has to, you know, sweet talk, belugosi end to being like, okay, we're going to do the scene now, get it comfortable. And it'll fucking water and immediately, but immediately cuts to legosi being like, let me shoot up with heroin first. Like it has everything going on within this little isolated sequence. All the people put in the lights up doing all this stuff to get this ridiculous movie go. Like it's, this is everything. This is everything. It's funny. It's yeah. It's, it's funny and tragic because you have this old man who is high on drugs right now doing what's left of his career by getting into freezing cold water in the middle of the night to battle a fake octopus. I mean, you go, you shoot, you, you jump decades later and this same sort of shit's happening on sets of like Friday the 13th, you know, like doing these cold late at night cheap, you know, you're a studio film with that. But like, I've read and watched so many interviews about, like these deaths that happen when they have to do these lake scenes of like, sounds just like, I mean, it's more competent in this, but the same kind of issues drum up with like, I'm naked and in this fucking cold ass water and there's a guy dressed up this thing. It's, yeah, it comes. I mean, this is this is similar. This is why I watch so many like random screeners that get tossed away because I'm gonna find gems like this that feel like they have a scrappy sensibility from somebody new or some interesting voice where it's not just the same stuff that sure might be entertaining or has someone I like it or what have you. But if I watch all these independent things that, you know, I look at my top 10 lists and all these things. There's ones that stem from the fact that I took the time to feel like, let me find the other stuff. Let me find these guys that are out there on the ground doing the work trying to make a name for themselves. Well, yeah, you know, you know, me, I love like the ones that tend to tickle my fancy every year are the ones that I am so impressed with how much they did with so little. And that like wins me over tons like all the time. Like, yeah, last stop in New York County this year, I won't shut up about it. But I'm like, it's rocks. The guy who sold his house to make the movie, like that's, and he wasn't selling a mansion like this. And that's why I tried to talk up that fresh kills movie so much, which is, yeah, fresh kill. Oh, yeah. And yeah, she spotted that movie herself, like, and I mean, obviously, the key example is hundreds of beavers for me right now. Yeah, no, that movie is the same. This is the scrappy as thing possible. It's phenomenal. The ingenuity involved in making that come to life is just it embraces its cheapness to its benefit too. That's one of the best things about it. Like, that's what Edward would aspire to be, make something like a hundred would be hundreds of beavers where he has nothing to work with. Yeah, 100 grand and I'd kill a seat in my max. And it's more inventive than any number of studio films I've seen. Yeah, hundreds of me. I cannot wait for the top 10 because then it's going to get even more, you know, spotlight at the end of the year when it starts making lists, because it's going to make a lot of them. If there was a perfect world, we'd read state, be voter voted in the the user votes for the Oscars to get best cinematic moments or whatever bullshit they want. Yeah. And we'd like, you know, it's your and we somehow to somehow juke the audience to vote in something random like that. Is there some weird category that hundreds of beavers could with a push sneak in? FX, visual effects, yes. It could get a qualifying round in there for sure. I could see that happening. Otherwise, production design and its possible costumes, maybe those are areas that best documentary. I guess, yeah. Oh, yeah, those those below the line ones, I think would even cinematography, I think, I wouldn't be like, they could submit for those things. Like whether or not they actually get serious consideration. It's original screenplay, but it's so funny. Yeah, like, it's, I mean, it's a lot of stage directions on paper. It's my thing over film of the year by a mile. So, I mean, there's no, I'm sure every AI it's. Yeah, I'd submit it for all categories. Like, I think the lead performance is really great. I mean, it's very, there's, there's a physicality that you have to be able to do. Regardless of pause here, I want to point out, I love him, like saying the lines with Legosi here as if they're making Citizen Kane. Like, he's just like here and like, Oh, yeah, like. And, you know, not to belabor a point, but that, to me, was the difference between Ed Wood and a lot of his peers as he thought he was making service of game. Yeah, no, that's the one and you get it. You get, and that's one thing that, you know, inspired Burton's direction here for the movie was in the writers of like, when they heard that from people that knew Ed Wood, like he really believed he was making, like that, that inspired, that's really, you throw the book out. That's how we're going to make the movie. We know these things and we don't need to look at the notes anymore. Yeah. And this is, and as much as this is like a print the legend type of take on and would, it does come from, yes, Burton's genuine admiration for what he stood for from some, yes, recollections of what he was like, and from letters that Ed Wood wrote that gave him a certain idea of like, the personality he had or whatnot. And to, to depth's extent, he was, he had, there's some very specific inspirations you had for how to play him. He had a Jack Haley, Tim and Mickey Rooney, Ronald Reagan, and Casey Caseham, who was really his, his points for how to like, how to play consistent idealism in a hyped up, I can, I can see that I can see the Reagan in there. You see the Reagan in it for sure. What do you, what do you really look at that? You're like, Oh, that makes sense. Yeah, that tracks. Although my favorite Reagan is Bruce Campbell. For the one moment in the bathroom in Fargo, season two, that's very funny. I, what I really like is Michael Schill Walter and one of the wet hot American summer TV shows where it's like, purposefully bad, but it's very funny, which is very, that's David Wayne type of thing to do. It's a good Bill Murray moment right here. It's the, like, it's these looks he's get like, he's so, I don't even know if like Burton's directing this, where he's just like, Bill Murray, get up, but it's so funny. Bill Murray met a guy like this. And it's totally making fun of this guy fine. You know, that's what this is. Like, yeah, that sounds great. You like the guy. And he's like, I'm going to get him someday. And this was the, this is the out. This was where it was. Um, and I think something else this film does that it threads the line in that whether or not everything that in this film happened as displayed on screen, the movie doesn't try to trick you into thinking these movies were good. Yep. I mean, you're watching them being made, you're seeing all the compromises and the, the old respect, poor artistic choices on display. And so even if there's a certain sense of, you know, as you said, with the legend, I mean, it doesn't try to convince you that this guy really wasn't genius or its films were, you know, genuinely terrific entertainments that were kind of their time or unloved, you know, whatever, you know, the sick joke is that we all know he's made, it's almost, it's almost like watching, you know, a bomb under the table waiting for it to go off because you know these films are terrible. It's something I like about the ending where it gets this dramatic showcase of Ed Wood's films premiering like a big feeder, the Marlars on the marquee and all that. And immediately after that, the title comes up and saying Ed Wood would go down as the worst director of all time. Okay. It just undercuts it. I just, I love the dramatic nature of all the roll call thing of like catching up with where they would, would be, it's just, but it does maintain a sense of optimism, which is there's that works in this film's favor. And I, it's interesting to see how Alexander and, and Karazooski, they explore that in their, the preceding films that they, they are, they're authors of. And this is how your wife tells you she's voting for Trump. Where like the most recent example that you mentioned, Dolomite, that's, it's not really straying from reality too much, despite the, you know, some of the heightened, the vibe of Rudy Raymore. It's still presenting this idea of, yeah, he, he, he took something that he bet on, he bet on himself essentially and succeeded overall, maybe on the, you know, in the, to get to like prestige Hollywood, that certainly, you know, found an audience or something like he'll, for his Larry Flint, like, or man on the moon and other, like there's, make the, well, if you're talking about capturing the essence of when they were outside of those writers, yes, make is another example, get where it has a very specific idea of how it wants to do something and what like, what, where the liberty is. And you know what, it's not to be like, but like something like a vampire here that we're seeing, like, you know, it's just fog, a couple candles, some curtains, but like some guy is flipping through late at night being like, ooh, she's hot. Oh, I'm moving, I'll watch the movie till she comes back again. You know, like there's that allure to this late night stuff as well. Is this Lisa Marie's best role in a Burton movie in general? Yeah. When she's talking this time, I mean, yeah, but she's effective in sleepy hollow as well. It's just effective. But that's what that's why I'm asking is this her best role. Yeah, she's good in the part. Yeah, she's effectively menacing in Mars attacks. Yeah, I mean, yeah, no, I mean, I mean, seriously, I do think there's something interesting about the user and Martin shorts like all over. And she bites off his finger. It's a fun scene. Something that would be twice in theaters, kids that remember Dick Morris from the early 90s when he was actually pretending to be a Democrat. But I mean, because Ed would, I think it, yeah, it's the, it requires the most of her as far as conveying a character, right? But I do think she's good here. I mean, as far as someone that just, but doesn't really have much of an acting career, like she's effective. Because you have a perception of what a vampire is, right? And this movie's like, well, now we have to actually give dimension of that to some degree. It's like, okay, so she's the person that clearly understands her place here. In one scene, she can feel like she's, you know, above everybody else, but in other scenes, she's willing that gets disrespected. What is this? Slow horses? Sorry. That joke is so like of right now, and it makes no sense just saying it. That's a terrible podcast joke. Well, ideally they're watching along. I only watch. They also watch slow horses. I am happy you're cut up on slow horses, because that's your rule. It's one of the best shows on television books. I'm starring Gary Oldman. It's such a specific joke to make. But it was effective for you. Just to be clear. So we're not continually laughing about this. Martin Lando, but Jimella Lugosi opens door up and gun pointed at Edward. He has to be convinced not to shoot him. That'll make sense to the people that turned on Apple TV plus in the next few months. All six of us. It's on season four. It's got to be more than six. I know. Well, no, it's a UK show. They just buy it and bring it over here. That's that's why. Yeah. So that's why it's also only six episodes, and it's a perfect length, which every show could benefit from it. Or you could be Ted Lasso would make your seasons longer and your episodes an hour and a half. Whatever the flock works for you. I don't know. Or stranger things where you make films and call it a TV season. And your films are remember that move from the eighties? If you make your episodes normal size, you'll have to pay your actors more and we can't have that. But at least they come out timely. And they don't have to spend millions of dollars to deage the actors. So they still look like they did in the previous season, which takes place not too long after the next season. I'm looking forward to season five, which that's all I got. Okay. So enough making photo stranger things during this pointed moments of sadness. For what it's worth, the first and second act both end the same way with him going to Bellagosi's house to deal with a crisis immediately following a premiere of his film. He's going to send a rehab, but he said, no, no, no. Okay. Speaking of the worst biopics I've seen this year. Well, she got out unscathed. Okay, Scott. Jesus Christ. I met the actress. Well, yeah, well, she has to be on HBO's best show right now. Yeah, she has industry. Which, you know, gee, when you let the big run for a few seasons, maybe it'll pick up in season three, what a novel concept. It's not as if one and two are bad, good seasons. Oh, no, I mean, in terms of popularity. Sure. Yes. Yeah. Yes, that tracks. You know, it's interesting that this is heartbreaking stuff, by the way, we're building, going into the relapse and all that. They're not really enough withdrawals. Burton depth, you know, they have that, you know, this long working relationship, but like he's, they've worked together before. Well, I mean, he was the last one. Dark shadows. Dark shadows. And nothing since. And at a time, you know, in a working relationship with Paul Rubens, and at a time when, you know, Paul Rubens wouldn't have been somebody, you know, would have been a lackless material. He fought to have him just in a little role in Batman Returns. Yeah. He's not forcing Johnny Depp into his movies at this point. I mean, which is why I think that there is value in the way that he handles the Jeffrey Jones character in Beetlejuice. And that, you know, he doesn't just pretend the character or the actor who was very famous, relatively popular when Beetlejuice first came out. And was it a reason why that film was a hit? I mean, Jeffrey Johnson, one of the most notable character actors from the 80s and 90s. So like, and a big part of that movie. And well, I'm not just gonna ignore it. Well, but there's a lot of people mad that he even got into college. And there's a likeness. Yeah. I mean, a lot of the character that's in a movie. A lot of people is, you know, the angry people on Twitter. I mean, I can't get back outside the bubble. No one either knows or nobody cares. It's not even a matter of whether or not nobody, it's more of just the way it's approached. I mean, that and that, yes, I agree. It's like that. I've maybe specific issues of using a choir of children to sing dayo to him as he lowers into a grave. But that's a different story. Otherwise, the use of him as a character is very fitting to progress that story without, like you said, Brandon, like completely removing and enacting as if it doesn't count. Because if you're going to kill him off, guess where he's going to appear? Um, but anyway, so yeah, I do think there's something to be said for how that was done, just as a matter of not taking the easy way out. In the same way that, yeah, I mean, obviously, without, you know, obviously would all rubens did or was on a much lower scale of criminality. But at the time when it happened, it was. Well, because he was a children's media icon. And again, I'm not a great, even when I was 11, I thought the reaction was insane. Right. Yeah. I mean, we talked about that, but like, yeah, at the time that was a today, I've been like, huh, because what's his name? He's Fred Willard had the same thing happen to him. And it was like, yeah, really, really quickly. And then he died quickly after. To be fair on the P we, you know, how that's, I mean, it's not like returns was advertising the fact guess who's in this movie. It's more of he pops, it was a controversy that he was in it, though. I remember, I remember, we made some stuff at the time, but is that like, but is that an after the fact thing as opposed to going into what people knew? Because it's, I think no, he was going into it. He was in an announcement that he was cast as penguins father. Okay. And then it was like, Oh, yeah. But, and then he had what Buffy like, right after that, he was trying to change his image, which is very funny. He is really funny. He is one of the highlights of that movie, which is a movie. By the way, we've talked over it a little bit, but like there's, you know, plenty of emotional moments or at least areas of drama that they're, you know, aiming to lean on the drama. When I first saw this, it wouldn't even talk about when we first saw this movie, when I first saw this, I got the most saddened when you have all the press like storming over just this frail old man in rehab. And it's like, that's really upsetting to what to see. This movie has ways to hit you that I get surprised by. It's one of the few times where we see him or he's not somewhat extravagantly dressed in a movie dive costume, where he's just a frail old man. When did we first see this movie? Scott, why did you see this movie? Opening weekend Saturday night. Well, you took my aunt and uncle that because I was sleeping over that weekend. And I don't know if they knew what they were going to get into, but they were, I know they were certainly humoring me. I mean, it's a biopic. I mean, it's like, oh my god, this movie. The new channel back to the year before I took him to the piano. Yeah, because you're a big fan of Harvey Keitel and all of them. Exactly. All parts. But no, and I loved it. I mean, you know, I had read the reviews. I was expecting to love it as weird as that might sound. But did they tell you they go, what did you do? You're like, that was amazing. What'd you guys think they go? That was neat. Pretty much. It wasn't as scary as I planned night from overseas. I was 14. It wasn't like they had to like worry about hurting my feelings. How'd you take them if you were 14? Well, I wanted to see it and they wanted to humor me. He's just phrasing. I attended what they drove and paid for tickets and that's what your answer is. So you didn't take them. They took you. They were doing you as well. It's a relevant, some part of the conversation. Anyway, trying to prove that Scott Middleson is a liar. Do not believe his box office numbers. I people already know that about liar and they shouldn't believe my box office numbers. I've been, I've been bluffing for years. You kidding me? Yeah, that's why he's barely talking to his podcast. I like the amusement park where they like duck when the scythe comes over them. Yeah, that's a fun bit of like, this ride is just real enough. And then again, I was like, I don't know if they'd do that. But no, I saw it over the weekend. I really liked it. I was sad that it bombed, but even then I wasn't surprised. Because again, this was a quick show with tanking. Shawshake Redemption was underperforming. Even West Craven's new nightmare was going to take in a week or so, which, you know, conversely, I mean to be fair, mentioning these other movies. What is the, is there a logic to this that you're suggesting here beyond just movies didn't do well for some reason that fall? Well, the idea that, you know, the conversation about why don't people show up for what they say they want in theaters is not a new one. I think a few of these you're mentioning are ahead of their time though, that people at that time weren't looking for this or knowing what to do with this. But years down, West Craven's new nightmare wasn't like, welcome with open arms too much. It's a point where it's the, I think reviews were a solid, but in terms of the general public, I wish the crappy Freddy movie had nothing to do with the other ones. Well, another Freddy's trailer, and I kind of figured it was going to, and partially, I think it just, you know, Freddy's dead, probably poison the well. That's what I'm saying. It's another Freddy movie, regardless of what they're saying. You just kill them two years ago, and it's Freddy, and we're this weird point in movie dumb where slasher horror and that kind of horror is not the most popular thing anymore. And to be fair, it's no matter how fiction was doing excellent during this period. Yeah, that's not the only thing people could see. I'm sorry, what was that? Not the only thing people could see. We've proven that plenty of time. Oh yeah, but I mean it's the same movies. And then, you know, it's, it's a couple of weeks later in removing the vampire, which in its own way was a somewhat transgressive major studio movie, broke the opening weekend record for a non-summer release. Well, yeah, you have too hot. Yeah, yes, of course. Yes, because it's not doubling down on too much there. But let's see this. So yeah, I mean, it's, I saw it opening weekend. I loved it a lot, and you know, I was rooting for it at the Oscars. Oh yeah, this is a September release too. This is a terrible time for movies anyway. These movies don't make money. This is when time pops, still breaking it in because it came out in August has jumped. Well, seven comes out the next year. That's next year, right? Yes. Yeah, but that has, that has the good will of here's Brad Pitt and Morgan Freeman. People you've shown that you like in this interesting, not silence of the lambs, but kind of familiar type of thing. Like there's plenty of ingredients there that make that make sense. In the same way that Beetlejuice or it makes sense in September. It's like, hey, we could do this. Oh, right, right now. It's like, yeah, okay, you got your phone. We'll get up the box. Obviously you got a forest comp. You have the River wild with Meryl Streep. You have clear and present danger that's still making money. The mask is still making money. And then yeah, you have weird things like Quiz Show coming out and Shawshank and. And there's so many like big blockbusters that we've talked about. Jurassic Park is still in the top 15. Yeah. Wow. I mean, that was still as recently as. 69th week. Or that was in first run drive ins. Because I saw it a part of a double bill in June of 94. Well, I did. It was on the other screen next to us. Because they would have the Flintstones and then they dressed. Ork. We were seeing Beverly was cop three and then Nick done 33 and a third. And also Edward was a platform release, wasn't it? Or at least it wasn't a why. No, I don't believe so. It wasn't platformed at all. I don't think so. Let me double check. And I remember from Christmas was platform. It was always weird to be because I remember seeing that like early. And then it's like it went wider. It's like this weird. Well, it's like, I didn't realize that it only opened on 500 screens until after opening weekend when I heard the numbers. And it only done like 6.3. They're like, oh my god, it flopped. And then it wasn't until a few days later. They're like, oh, first grade average is pretty good. Never mind. I love them arriving. Oh no, Edward has a limited release in September 30th. And he goes wide on October 7th. Fair enough. And I saw it on October 7th. That would have been when I get to the same weekend as Paul Fitchin. But even then, it couldn't capitalize on good buzz and reviews for the sake of me. Now, not when the specialist is coming out a week later. Some of the people need to see. Specialist. The specialist and only you. Oh man. When movies came alive. On the scout. I don't remember anything about the scout. Oh, that's Albert. Yeah, that's Albert. That's Albert Brooks is a scout who goes down. It's a Fraser, right? Brandon Fraser, who's a baseball prodigy. Yep. He brings it back. If you love the hair up there, you'll love the scout. A million dollars while Jason's lyric made $21 million. Unless a good Hollywood learned very little from. But I digress. Yeah, because well, you had the star of airheads and in the scouts. Because we all hate Brandon Fraser. Did you see this in theaters? I did not. I didn't see this. And I, it was a rental at some points. And even then I would say I was like too young. But at the same time, it's like of the, you know, the burden I was used to, it wasn't one where I was like. I'm definitely watching this and having like my eyes glued in the same kind of way. It wasn't until later on. When it eventually came to DVD that I like found my love for this movie. And it's in the way that I have it now. And even that DVD took a while to come out for vague reasons. I was hitting like 2,000 college when I finally came. I was like, because I've been wanting to watch Ed Wood and I was like, why can't I like, why is this movie not like easily available? And then it finally like arrived. And with good extras and whatnots was like, oh, a good package, not bad. But yeah, as I've established another Tim Burton podcast that we've done, my mom and I were big Tim Burton and we'd go to see all the movies. You know, Batman returns and Mars attacks and all that. Like we'd see all of them in theaters. This is the one that like eluded us back in the, the early days of Tim Burton. Just wasn't like a, I mean, the specialist was right there. So obviously everybody went. So I did not see this in theaters. So yeah, when did you see big fans VHS some point? I saw after Mars attacks, I believe. I think it was like sitting next to Mars attacks when I came out of VHS or something like that. But I thought I loved it. I decided to go rent all the Edward movies I could and realized that watching this is a lot more fun than watching a bunch of Ed Moon movies. That's the thing. I've never, like I've seen plan nine, but I've never been inspired to be like, I got to watch all these Ed Woods. Well, and I'm a, I'm a, there's a, there's a charm to them, but like power in through them, not fun. Like an anime guy who loves cult movies, B movies, things like this, but I know it's a gigantic mystery science theater 3000 fan back in, back in this day, but yeah, it's a, you need friends with you to watch some of these, but this was in the same way that, you know, watching a disaster artist is far more enjoyable than suffering through the room. Negative argue. No, no, no, nothing for me. I mean, you got the experience. It's the audience experience that makes it. If you're watching the room on your own to be like, let me just put this on. I used to have, I used to have parties to just watch the room. And like it, it goes over like gangbusters. Like the room isn't like a rocky horror or like even on its own. It kind of works. Like the room is a very specific, you're watching this with audio, you know, and added, you know, an extra element beyond just how bad this movie is. You need at least just one person with you to watch it. Like that's the requirement because you need someone to turn to and be like, what? If we get screen specific for a moment, Martin Landau or Bela goes, he gets this big monologue and then immediately dies. And I don't think it's referenced in this movie, but Bors Kailoff paid for his funeral. Um, that's sort of a, you know, frankly, a pity gesture. I mean, he stays with the funeral and Vincent Price is actually in attendance at his funeral. He eats, which is not depicted here as well. And so you, you can't get someone to play, but Vincent Price, there's a little one bit some price. He had just died very recently. Yeah. And he'd been in Burton, you know, Burton had had him. They, they'd, they'd have a friendship. Like it's, yeah, I mean, there's something that's very, that's very, it feels very key to why Burton's making this movie. He very much responded to the really, which is why it's so featured. Burton never had Cushing in one of his movies. He had Christopher Lee later here in Sleepy Hollow. But he got price, he got price and he befriended price. And that's, yeah. I mean, that, that, that, I do think that has a big effect on the world. Yeah. He wants to make Ed Wood as much as he does. Because he sees him on a similar area there. The parallels here are, you know, not subtle. The joke I used to make was, you know, Vincent Price's last mainstream film was Edward Scissorhands. He did some voiceover and some Aladdin knockoff that came out after the fact. But so the joke I was making seemed like in George Lucas and Peter Jackson was kind of three right weights that you could have the last Christopher Lee movie. And I think Peter Jackson won. So yeah, yeah. Hobbit films? Fucking Hobbit, perfect. I thought I figured it'd be Burton. Is Lee in, is Lee in Frankenweeny? Even though that's, that's still before. I think, actually. Yeah, he does a voice. I think he made to the parents. He's in a live action clip from the, okay, I see. All right. Yeah, Lucas got two. He got Cushing and Lee. So damn, who would, who would Vincent Price be in a Star Wars? Be ready when he wants. Be ready. Too baka, obviously. You owe it up before Frank Oz took over. Watch the fuck out of that movie. Great. Dark. Looks like it's a top. Oh no, battle of five armies. Goddamn it. But they probably filmed that at the same time though, right? Dark shadows. What? Dark shadows. Oh, dark shadows. Dark shadows in behind the first holiday of the same year. I don't know. But I know they eventually. Just like Donald Pledis, he got to die when he did, he would die doing what he did best. Saruman, I don't know. To be fair, he's better in that than he is in the infamest deleted scene of Return of the King, where it's like, yeah, they kept making excuses for why they cut that out. And then you see the film as, oh, because it's terrible. I get it. Carry on. It's a bad scene. Just like the alternate ending of Vanilla Sky with Kurt Russell. Oh, god. Really, really bad. That does feel like classic camera cover. It's like, I got to find it in the edit. I'll figure this out. That's why his movies always have an hour deleted scene on them. It looks like they had additional fits. So I guess the hobbit wins this round, but they did basically die. As you, Jackson. Music for those movies by Howard Shore. I believe the Elfman. Yeah, we haven't praised the score, but it's because it's great. That's the thing. As much as it's great to hear the classic Elfman scores in the early Tim Burton films, this Howard Shore score is really good. It perfectly captures the '50s sci-fi movie stuff while being an interesting score in its own. It doesn't feel like you left Elfman, though, too. It feels like, oh, yeah, this is right. I'm just now realizing Howard Shore also did the Lord of the Rings. It all ties together. Yes. I would argue we scores are instrumental in why those films work. I don't think they do anything, but... Oh, it's one of the key movies of recent times that has multiple themes for things that you can instantly recognize as like, that's Mordor. That's Hobart's-- I remember when I was-- especially the first Hobart movie, which very obviously leans on fellowship quite a bit. It's like, every time you hear the familiar music, it's like, oh, that's cheating, but it's working. I can't think of a movie that has not just a theme, but multiple identifying themes since then, where these are the themes of these specific areas within this world. Yeah. Maybe, not even Avatar. Avatar is fine, the best with the score. If that's the one weak thing about Avatar, that does have a better score. That's the one weak thing. It's an invisible score. I would say it's invisible, but it's like, for a movie of that scope, you would like to think that it could similarly star wars its way through. It's something you can hum. That's the Jake Scully theme. That's the superiority theme that's the big tree theme. I mean, I would argue there's only a handful of Marvel movies that I have really recognized in both themes. Don't even get me started with the Marvel stuff. What not even a criticism is just something that was not here. No, it shouldn't be a criticism, Scott. That movie has 35 fucking movies. You'd be able to come up forward with that. Like Black Panther by default, because what it won in Oscar, but also it has ideas for what it's doing. Yeah. Although I do like some of that. The other is just a big fan of Marvel more. The other thing I hate is that the third movie seems to always ditch the score from the first two movies. Like Iron Man does that. Ant Man seems to do that. Thor does that. It's like there was something that was working. Like at least I can actually, now it's like, why it by being consistent? I don't get it. Anyway, sorry. Keep going if you want this. I'm just enjoying that. The scores are these Marvel movies, guys, and tell me. Like I'm not a fan of the main Avengers score. I don't, I've never liked it. Like, like great. You got it all on Sylvester. He just kind of like phones one in. Like, all right, whatever. Let's praise it. Because a band can play it at a college during the football game is great. So this movie with the Howard George score. Yes, as you mentioned, it came because, yes, during Batman Returns and Nightmare Before Christmas, they were all working a lot and they had disagreements in a strange relationship. Not the first time that Danny Elfman's like, I don't like to work with you anymore. It seems to have that kind of an attitude. It would be the last. So he had a guy with a Raimian Spider-Man 2. I've been learning too, yes. He also like gets annoyed with Raimi during Spider-Man 2, even though that's a superior score. Yeah. So yeah, they take a break. They take a break for a bit. He comes back, obviously, because Mars attacks is like, it's like, by the way. The Mars objectives. Remember how the score is? Fuck you, it's back. It's very. Hey, look, it's back. And even since, there's not a lot of Burton, like, because Sweetie taught, obviously, for obvious reasons, doesn't have an Elfman score. It's like Peregrine have like a different score. Isn't that like a... Let's see. Yeah, that doesn't have Elfman. Which one doesn't have Elfman? Mrs. Peregrine. Oh, that makes sense, I guess. Dark Shadows, I assume that's Elfman. Yeah, I'm curious, because I never really... No, it's like, it doesn't stop. Like, it's Peregrine, Sweetie Todd. And I feel like that's it. Yeah. Yeah, Elfman's on big fish, big eyes. Yeah, he's on it. Yeah, look at that. He's done everything except those two. Yeah. My, uh, my, my baptism scene just happened. It's kind of insane considering he basically was, you know, for an entire generation or two, him and Williams were like the most recognizable, the only recognizable composers to, you know, in the real world. And yet he has never won an Oscar. And probably never will. Sure. No, Elfman. Elfman, oh. Golds? No, not Golds. He got two nominations in one of those weird years where they had, like, two different scores for comedy and drama. He got one from Goodwill, Hunt the End, Men in Black. He didn't win it when either of those day here. I know, J. Goldsmith was pretty well known. He got nominated for Milk as well. He has, like, random nominations like that where it's music. Is he nominated for Men in Black, though? I'm trying to think. Yes. Weirdly enough. I know he's nominated for Hunting, for sure. I also, I, my theory on that, as far as I'm not winning, I don't think people like him very, like, I could be fair. I think that's an actual factor in, like, what's held him back from, like, you know, getting more of that kind of recognition. Beyond being, like, obviously a, you know, everyone knows who's Dan Dan, you know, and go, go, go, go. He's any elf, but he's doing all those waggy stuff. I do feel like this is based on things I've heard. He seems to have a personality clash with a lot of others, which that is entirely possible. And the, the current things going on with them. The current discourse is not helping. Probably not helping either. And that's why I was thinking he probably never will, because if he's not, it's not happening now, it's probably not going to happen many times. Big fish was his other nomination. Big fish. Yes. That was for a Burton film, which, you know, and that's the other thing is, you know, it's, you know, I'm, you know, I grew up by a huge Jim Burton fan. I was thrilled that this film was getting huzzaws and awards, and I was rooting for Martin Landau. But there's almost a part of me that thinks, especially in retrospect, that, you know, in terms of history and blah, blah, blah, that Sam Jackson should have fucking won for Pulp Fiction. Largely, you know, regardless of what performance you think is better subjectively speaking, it was such an iconic and definitive role for him, and for, you know, cinema in general, that it's almost odd that he did not win that year. And when he got broke out to tons of, like, it's like the, like, you know, not winning best picture, but the legacy of your movie is better. Like he didn't win the best actor, but like, Landau didn't like, launch off into tons of stuff. Like, Sam Jackson became go to band. He didn't say no to people to that help, but like, Landau is also all, he's in that older, like, we got a role. True. But also, the porridge is really good. And also, he won like every, I see the talk about Jackson, but it's like, Landau won everything leading up to this. It wasn't like a surprise win for Landau. Oh, no, no, it was not a surprise at all. He was absolutely expected to win. And this is just me looking back at retrospect in terms of up culture. Jackson got an honorary, Jackson has an honorary Oscar now. Um, yeah. And it's like, yeah, I mean, you can all, you can. I thought it was neat that he got to present Spike Lee with his first competitive Oscar a couple of years back. There's, there's plenty of like, hindsight awards, where it's like, how come, you know, any of the other films didn't like, I mean, that. You think how much shit could have been avoided if Al Pacino had just won Best Actor for the Godfather in '73, right off the bat, right category, right winner. You know, if you want to give Brando a supporting knock yourself out, I don't care. Yeah, but the thing is, you also look at these 70s nominations, they're always like stacked with stuff where it's like, of course, Jack Nicholson wins. Of course, like, like, there's no, there's no denying, like, what actually takes place. Of course, Joel Gray over Pacino. Yeah, I mean, I know you're, I know that's a jest, but Joel Gray's really great in capitol. No, he's great. Well, and I would say Joel Gray over my brand in supporting. I'm a gigantic fan in the right category. That's like an Oscar. I, yeah. But like, I mean, Gavry could have been the Annie Hall over Star Wars of that year, too. God, yeah, it could have easily. And it basically was because it was winning everything else that day. It just happened to lose the, like, three things that got by their one. Yeah. Um, but yeah, 94 is Oscars. Edwards not nominated for a lot, obviously. As we mentioned, it has, it wins. It does win what it had. Is that how many other knobs, though? It doesn't have any other knobs, right? No, it goes two for two. It goes two for two. I'm good on it. But 94 is, of course, one of these, like, crazy years was like everything's really good. Yeah, that's one of them, my favorite years of, yeah, best picture race. You look at this best picture line up. It's Forrest Gump, four weddings, Pulp Fiction Quiz Show and Shawshank. It's like, great. You look at the directors. Zamekis for Forrest Gump. Woody Allebolts are a Broadway, Tarantino, Redford, and Christoph Kislavski for three dollars. It's like, well, that's a dream. Well, I mean, it's a ship. Like the year Titanic dominated was a stacked year. Oh my God. That was amazing. You take Titanic out. It's still hard to choose. Uh-huh. It's Elle Confidential, isn't it? Yeah, Elle, yeah, obviously Elle Confidential. But I mean, you look at everything else. You're like, holy crap. Like any other year you would have been a front runner, most of you. Well, Monty, probably not. But the supporting actor race, you have Lando who gets the win, but it's, yeah, Sam Jackson. Chaz Palmentary for Bullets Over Broadway, which is a fucking great performance. You all still feel for Quiz Show, Gary Sinise. It is like career-defining role as Lieutenant Dan. That's the thing. Thor was just a really good fucking year overall for movies. Why is it Johnny? That would be good. Tom Haggs, Morgan Freeman, Paul, Morgan Freeman, over Tim Robbins, just hilarious to me. Of the one time that they could have done category fraud, they're like, no, Morgan Freeman's going to be lead actor. And Tim Robbins doesn't get in. That's really, that's just so funny. By the way, we're about to be introduced. But to the Orson Wells was played by Vincent Noffrio and voiced by Maurice Lamar. Yeah, Danoffrio comes in here. It looks like a spinning image of Orson Wells. And you're sitting here being like, this is great. Danoffrio can't do wrong. Burton's like, I don't like the place. Danoffrio works on it. Look at him, though. That's such a good Orson Wells. That's a stature down. From behind, especially, too. When you first see, you're like, I get it. I already get this before I even see his face. That's Orson Wells. And then, yes, you have the brain himself come in and be like, I got this second night. I can knock this out in an afternoon. I love this conversation that absolutely did not happen. Where he meets his idol and he has that little joke where he's like, they want me to play. They want me to have Chuck Heston come in as a Mexican. It's so good. There's way too much self-aware it isn't that close. But that's so funny. It's one of those things that did it happen? No, should have. Yes. It's not just that this happening. It's devs coming in frustrated and wearing an Angora sweater and meets Orson Wells. They have a delightful conversation. At Muso and Frank's. Yeah, Muso and Frank's. Yeah. You know, I like about the comment. It's like something that Scott likes to bring up, too, that we talk about. Like that people don't realize that, like, things that were problematic then were probably brought up as problematic back then. They just know nothing to like. Bring up with or it just was like a little bit more against one type thing. Where it's like, yeah, someone probably said, why is Charlton Heston playing a Mexican in this? It's probably brought up. Someone probably wrote about it back then, too. But we have lost it, don't have it. Wasn't, you know, people moved on with their lives like, well, that's silly. But anyway. And you know, when they first talked about diversity being an issue on friends, while friends was on the fucking air. Yep. It was an ongoing talking point. That was one reason why she had chalered. Join the show for a cup for a season or so. Yeah, you're not wrong in saying these things. And the issue now is that it's not like you can change it. So it's like, exactly. I, well, well, it's not like you can change it. Yes. So like, is there like a net gain from doing it now? Not necessarily. However, the fact that it comes up more. I do think there's value in as far as how do we not keep repeating those mistakes? Because guess what? We do keep repeating those mistakes. That's fair. It's easy to say, it's easy to say on the sidelines. Why are we talking about this? Friends has been over for a while. It's been over for more than 20 years at this point. Did you know? Did you know? And not everyone knows that. That's the value in having that kind of article come up. Because there's people that watch a heavily syndicated show that love it, that were not alive when it was first coming out. But you don't need to make them feel like shit for enjoying it, too. I mean, the delivery system of it, that's a different story. But in terms of the relevance of having those conversations, it does matter. Yeah, I think there's a value in noting those conversations occurred at the time, while also saying, this is why it's still relevant. Well, that's why I like to read the good movie sites that are happy to acknowledge the fact that these things occurred before, as opposed to saying, did you know? I'm on earthing this thing for you, that you never, that was never talked about before. I'm 22. To get to the Ed Woodpoint, like, yes, I wouldn't doubt that Charlton has been playing a Mexican, came up maybe once in an L.A. time somewhere. But it certainly didn't have the sort of, you know, I think we should go to the cantina, authoritative relevance that it would today when you bring up that kind of a thing, and think of what the history is there and how it's regarded then. It's like, oh, that's why you bring it up now, because you don't want to keep having that same kind of conversation. And now you can get more eyes on that conversation to begin with, ideally to prevent it. Orson, what? It only happens so often. You only get so many times when you can recast a hellboy villain because he's Asian in the comics. Right. Just to get out of a bad movie. Yeah, we got it. It's a trap. And it screams like, I signed up for what? I can get out and look like a good guy. You'll survive, Daniel. They, Kim, don't you worry. There is a gain. Like, you can, there's always going to, it's Hollywood. It's built on ulterior motives. I completely understand that. But you know what? I'm not going to fault Ed's screen for doing something that makes a level of sense, even if there's other acts best up at that point. Oh, no, I mean, we joke about that, but I'm sure he did it for exactly the reason we assumed he did it. Yeah. And that's fine. He followed me, frankly. It's not like he's, I mean, I, it's not like he's around all the time now. So I don't know if there was, you know, negative consequences for that or not, but it's there's a good chance Ed's screen doesn't read Hellboy comics. Just got a name of a guy in a thing, went and read a part got cast, then finds out the ethnicity of the character, the, you know, like he's probably doing how many auditions a day a week or whatever, yeah, doing business and stuff. Like, and he's, these people aren't gigantic fans, no matter what they're, they don't have to be no matter what they're going into, you know, like, that's the thing. Like, it's okay if he didn't know he made the right choice after. This is a lovely bullshit season that I had. Oh, yeah. A, because of, you know, obviously the thematics and B, because in its own skewed way. I mean, obviously it's, it's different, but not only gigantic, where you get to see, you know, where you get to see everyone that you know and love in a weird, you know, come and take a bow kind of way, right, because the movie ends. But we are in the perspective of our character. So maybe, and we know how he's seen things all along and. Isn't the ending of Titanic nice, by the way? Yes. I was thinking about that the other days, but it's really good. It's a really great final sequence because it's so sad. When Bill Paxton gets the jewels and starts going, yeah, he pulls out, he pulls out two six shooters you've never seen before. It starts firing him into the air. Yeah, that's a yes. Then he. I'm the long last great, great, great. Now of y'all. And she'll become the god's eye killer. Your god's hand. Fuck. No, that, that Titanic ending hits like it does. It does. It's so good. That's what happens when you spend the right amount of time of a journey and see where it all lines up that, but then they cut the original ending. Yes, but Edward, this is, yes, of course. When you, when you fix it, um, it's almost like James Cameron knows what he's doing. Um, like, I can't believe you give Drew. Like, I can't believe that he made those successes. But yeah, this scene right here where, yes, you get this pan out. You see everybody in a theater, but yeah, specifically Ed and all of the people that he's worked with and they're all very happy. And even the first footage of this thing you're watching is the final shot of Bella. But like, it is nice that you come along this far and it's nonsense in the context of reality, but in terms of what this movie is trying to do. Yeah, it's pulling something here that works quite well. And when you have a biopic that has to surmise everything that you've gone on a journey with for a character, some can pull it off in text, which this movie does have. Some can pull it off and giving, like, you know, seeing that one final performance or something like that, whether it's Elvis or whatnot. And others can just, you know, just, you know, make something up and make it work. I mean, you know, this, but Bella, like, oh, see, film stuff happened to Alec Guinness with mute witness, though he was alive when it released. But his scene got shot many years before that movie became a movie. Oh, it's kind of funny. And I like the fact that, you know, he doesn't have a speech in this, which is kind of shocking. He comes up and says this is for Bella and leaves. And then it leaves, but he goes back to his seat. It's no, it's a nice, it's a nice way to do it, especially with these kinds of movies where it's not like the characters dying or anything like that. It's just like a final moment with this person where something like a Malcolm X, you know, he gets assassinated and you have to like find other ways to like, how do you, so how do you wrap up that? And I mentioned that would be just because in terms of greatest biopics, that's the other one that's like on my top three list as far as doing something. And that movie, because Spike Lee just knows what the fuck he's doing also, it's like, okay, we'll show the aftermath of this. And we'll find get, we'll get fucking Nelson Mandela, the action. Yeah, I can't really give you a final conclusion. Yeah, yeah, he's on a jail. Well, we'll show you what this all led to to some degree, one way or another. We haven't talked about Patricia Arkette at all, really. It's a, she doesn't do any more Burton, right? And it's kind of a rise. And she's pretty, she's pretty soft. And stuff, but one thing we know is type, Lisa Marie and Ava Green. Ava Green and Helena Bono Carter. Now Michael Bellucci, but he's got this blondes thing going on here with, you know, Vicky Bail, Winona Ryder and Scissorhands, Michelle Pfeiffer, Batman here in this movie. He's got double blondes, like, it's interesting. Which is what I'm saying, because it feels like she would fit really well within the Burton scene of things as playing a certain kind of character. Granted, Burton only does, I mean, it's not like he's short on cast members and people that show up at his movies, but she doesn't feel like she has the cut, but again, then again, she's also doing the lynch stuff, right? And she seems like a perfect, like, if I can't-- She'd have been, a big fish would have been the next opportunity for her to pop up in a-- If it would, and she was, and she's quote unquote older at that point, so it doesn't like fit compared to like Alice in Loman. Which the Arkettes work with interesting people and interesting projects, people to people, you know, for better or for worse. Like, I mean, Alexis Arkettes doing interesting stuff at the same time. David Arkettes got an interesting-- It's rated rumble. Sure, yep. And he was, you know, he was working on that Dogged afternoon picture as well during this time. Yeah, but I mean, they're an interesting group. Like, Rosanna, probably the most high profile at first, and then Patricia bent on by her. But yeah, that's kind of the thing with them. Like, just picking the interesting projects, not really worrying about pop culture fame. Like, Patricia shot up right away. M Street 3 was quite popular, but-- Fun fact, Patricia Arkette and Johnny Depp both debuted in Elm Street films. Yes, they did. It's a franchise that keeps on giving. And I had a cousin that had the Tordon's mask decades before I knew who he was. Couple of just the 10 of us class, by the first time. When are John Carpenter's guides? Instead of finding William Shatner found a Tor Johnson mask, and that was Michael Meyer's. That's funny. That's the Michael Meyer's face I'm chasing ever at. Or if it grabbed Nemo instead of Shatner. Why is this vaguely Jewish man chasing me? Why didn't anyone ever-- You know, they had the thing with the mask throughout the other movie. Why did anybody pay Shatner to come get a mold of his face and recreate the mask again? Like, why, you sound ridiculous. That would be stupid. Lady Shatner would have killed the show up and do something like that. Their approach instead to, I guess, we recreate it. We use the same one, we lost it, maybe we just make another one. What if we did this or that? Like, they didn't look good on film anymore. That's what happened. Yeah, I, yeah, I, yeah, deteriorated. But like-- Wasn't there another one they did lose, though? Like, later on? Like, between four and five, since four-- Oh, four, yeah, somehow with a four mask. Or they just decided, you know, we need a gigantic-- You need a bigger mask. Yeah. So, yeah, it's a really interesting thing. Dafrio's credit's pretty high in this budget, right? He's way above everybody. He hadn't been named yet. I think everybody, most of the people got named already. So that's usually a deal. He was above Bill Murray and Cocella and the people who were in the opening present. Who's the first person billed at the end credits of seven? Well, it didn't start with saying this is Dafrio, as well as it, everybody. You said to bring up as many canceled people as we could in this podcast, though. Thank you. Thank you for reminding me. It's being a valet comedy. I'll still be a terrific movie. Yes. I watched it. Promo Tomasi. Up. And it's literally my-- I'm not kidding. My computer has a shuffle for my wallpapers. There's just a lot of movie. It's literally an early confidence right now with Dafito and Kevin Space is standing in front of the-- The AI kid here is-- What else is I going to say about this fucking movie? It's being of seven and the value of, you know, keeping of having an unusually unpleasant ending for long-term commercial success. What else? Oh, Dep and Murray. They both played Hunter S. Thompson. They're fun fact there. Yeah. This had great reviews as we kind of alluded to. Maybe it, you know. It's a movie that's hard not to like. Like, I challenge somebody-- Yeah. Like, it's so interesting. In terms of biopics, it's sort of a, you know, forego certain formula tropes. And there's no second act down, like, rock bottom thing. It's a confident movie that knows what it wants. It doesn't dick around. It kind of gets to the-- And still never feels like it's like tight, you know? I mean, the closest thing to rock bottom is Balah Legosi's declining health. I mean, I'd argue there is a-- There's a bottom of sorts. But I mean, what it does is it masks it well. Because it would be an addition to being a movie that's driven by the actions of Edward making movies. It's a great hangout film. And that's because of the ensemble and the character focus, right? Because Burton's getting out of his own way as far as moving things through stylistic choices, which he still has. It very much is, let's just set Ed with these band of misfits and watch them play for a while. And it's fun to do that. This movie is, you know, it's over two hours. I wouldn't say it's slowly paced, but I wouldn't say it's fast paced either. It just knows how to like let you breathe with all this stuff that's going on. We're not all of it. And it's not self-referential winky either. Exactly. It's giving you stuff that like movie nerds would get as far as the, you know, the stuff that's the legend of Ed Wood and what have you. But yes, it's not-- Unless we're gailing itself in the fact that did you get this, did you get this? Like it has a better sense than that. Unless I missed others, there is only one silly biopic thing where you see the real life origins of something that was, you know, like when he gets pissed at the Baptist, you know, they're stupid, stupid, stupid. You're like, oh, if you're some weirdo that's actually seen play at nine before this film. Well, it opens a quiz while giving a monologue, which is exactly right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, like it, I get what you're saying. Yes, it's not like, it's not, it's not solo, huh? That's your last name now. Like it's not doing that bullshit. That's the closest thing that comes to that, which is why, you know, like, oh, it does do that once, but that's okay because it's funny. I will say just like learning the origins of something like of some of the things in this that are factual, even if they're feeling it funny. But what I really like is we just talked over it. But like the doctor who they found, who has the eyes. It's like as long as we just shield the rest of his face, we can make this work. Yeah, that's a real thing. That was actually one of the bits of trivia that, by default, was one of the more well-known bits of trivia in terms of Ed Wood's career, even if you weren't hardcore. Isn't it just so absurd? It was his wife's chiropractor. Yeah, they weren't married. These girlfriends chiropract, yeah. That in fake shimps, we all knew to look for. Okay, well, we talked about Ed Wood. The movie has concluded. It rocks. It's great. Yeah. Still my pick for, I mean, still my pick for his best picture. It's the weird thing where I'm not a fan of the best versus favorite thing. That's not generally how I look at movies. This does feel like the one exception where like, Sleepy Hollow is my favorite Tim Burton film. But I can very clearly acknowledge that this is his best, but it just feels very apparent to me that there's his best effort as a director. In the same way that I could argue that even this fucks of my mind, but I think, well, Jackie Brown is my favorite Tarantino movie, but I could argue that Inglourious Bastards is his best effort as a filmmaker. Like that makes a little sense to me. I can just-- There's also a case to be made for both Sleepy Hollow and Inglourious Bastards that, for me, Sleepy Hollow was sort of like the most Tim Burton movie. Ultimate Burton. Yeah. Inglourious Bastards, I think it was sort of, it was the ultimate put Tarantino movie in a number of ways. So yeah, I mean, though I think all fiction is my favorite of his, blah, blah, blah. I can certainly agree with you that Inglourious Bastards is like where everything comes together at a very high level. It's, you say-- and that's-- because he's such a-- We haven't done a lot of terrible-- well, what have we done? Maybe the Reservoir Dogs? Is that the one we've done? They're long movies. Do we do-- we did Reservoir Dogs, didn't we? We did Death Proof. That's the only two in the room. We did Death Proof. That's what it is. I think we've teased the idea of doing Reservoir Dogs. That's just because it's shorter. Probably in 2022 when it was its 20th, 30th anniversary. But they're so-- because like Inglourious, you can make that argument, but at the same time, it's like, well, but it doesn't have his-- Because it's set in the past, he can't rely on film knowledge, which is why I like it as a challenge for him. Because he has to strip that away from his cannon. That's why, like, once upon a time in Hollywood, that kind of seems like the ultimate, because it's like-- I'm still enamored with once upon a time in Hollywood. I'm like, I'm surprised you guys are bringing it. I'm like, oh, what's-- nope. I'm enamored with that one for some reason. I mean, well, that-- I mean, this, the other thing. That one hasn't been with me as long as Paul Fixer, Jackie Brown, Inglourious, Bastards, but like, it's sitting there, like, hey, guys. What I was gonna say is I'm such a Quentin fan of his films that it-- I mean, hard to pick children. There's a lot of splitting hairs that go like on. I mean, I think, you know, Django, Inglourious, what's upon a time, I think there are a fascinating unofficial trilogy in terms of-- in my-- the way I view them in terms of how we view historical events through a skewed cinematic lens. And-- I mean, I think you could almost argue that an hateful aid is sort of the rebutting that. But-- There'll be fascinating books that have and will be written about what he's doing that, you know, make the very clear argument that it's more than just-- he likes this stuff and re-ripped it off. Like, there's so much more intelligence going into what he's-- this is not a Tarantino commentary. [LAUGHTER] Talked about the-- [INTERPOSING VOICES] Talked about old Tammy Burt's. We should next month. Really? I mean, well, it's funny you mentioned that because I did consider that for this month. Because it wasn't-- Can we open in October? Yeah, we'll-- we have horror plans for October, so-- Fair enough. But yeah, we're done. We've talked about it. [LAUGHTER] We've got to wrap this up. All right. We're just doing other things. Brandon Peters, we're going to find more of your work online. The Brandon Peters Show is BrandonPetersShow.com or follow me on social media at Brandon4KUHD. Right now, this month is doing some, like, releasing a lot of my live performances from over the summer that I'd done and have not released. So it's new to you. Listening stuff from Days of the Dead in the Annapolis and PopCon Louisville. And coming up October 19th, I will be a guest at Dr.toberfest, which is in Canby, Indiana. It's a Dr. Who festival. I will be there to meet and greet. And also, we'll be doing some interviews and stuff on site. So please check that out, more information at whonorthamerica.com. Very good. Scott Mendelssohn. I am a semi-regular contributor to book news. And I write, run, and maintain the outside scoop at Substack. We do a weekly podcast lazily called the Box Office Podcast. Yeah, it sucks. On episode 32. And in terms of the socials, I'm at some variation of Scott Mendelssohn. I'm pretty much all of them. But I'm trying to be on all of them less. So catch me while you can. Everything I do could be found on my personal sub-stack page. The code is egotsubstack.com. I write for wheel entertainment and the lives of a little model of the socials at errandsps4. This podcast will be found in my podcast search route now there. And it was an iTunes review. That'd be great as well. I mean, we're on all the socials for the podcast as well. You just got a new one recently, too. We just did get a new one. Let's get a second. I know. Let's get a second one, folks. But let's get it going. These guys were so clearly having fun talking about Ed Wood, but they had too many tangents going on other things. What was all that stuff about? Tees me with Tarantino stuff. Four stars, one star off. Just piss you off. Abe didn't even show up three and a half. They teased Abe and he wasn't there. We were actually doing the specialist next month. Where's that guy that's always down on things? Anyway, that's what our commentary of Radwood, obviously. Branded beat. Scott, thank you both for joining me this evening. Always a pleasure. Thanks for having me. We'll be back next month with our October themed horror bonus episodes. Obviously means we'll have a lot of fun bonus horror themed content. That said, we will have a commentary track and our commentary track for this October. We'll be for Gorver Binsky's remake of The Ring. So stay tuned for that one. Some of us are not as fond of The Ring as others. Somebody else are right. Well. Well, we'll have that conversation when we have it. And if you are, you can go to the outside scoop box office podcast for the commentary of needful things. What? What the fuck? No. Enjoy Scott and his crew as they tell you how not to show up at the store. Shop there. You dumbass. It's where you have that. Shop for you. And it's the long cut too. Ah, but yeah, that's gonna do it for this charge of my podcast. That's gonna do it for this commentary track. Thank you guys. Thank you listeners for listening. We'll be back next month with another commentary. And of course all the regular episodes about it. Okay. Until next time. So long. And goodbye. (Music) [BLANK_AUDIO]