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It's Ivy Nation Sports Talk or it's Abbey A Countdown to Kickoff. Excuse me. But the gang is all here. Jesse Steyer's, Vince De Dario, Sean Steyer's, getting you ready. Notre Dame Purdue coming up this weekend. You know, guys, turns out the talk of an undefeated season, I guess it was a little bit premature. Huh? I mean, we got five days out of it or six days out of it. I mean, so that was, I guess, kind of cool. We're always looking for something to talk about. But yes, it was really endearing the fans to you right now, Vince. Yeah, well, you know, we had six days to talk about it. And then on the seventh day, apparently Notre Dame rested. And it wasn't a good rest. So yeah, not talking about one last thing to talk about. Not going to be talking about them going on a feed anymore. That's for sure. No, no. That'll never be a topic again. I think that it was very premature, obviously. I think the NIU loss is embarrassing. And at this point, we just got to move on, right? You got to find something new. To some extent. To some extent. I knew Winning Street to latch on to. And I think that's what I'm most excited about is if Notre Dame really is going to change this sort of loss should motivate them and kind of light a fire underneath their booties a little bit. That's for sure. That's for sure. It is Notre Dame and Purdue, though. This weekend, we've got, as always, a lot to get to in this show. We'll get to specifics on Purdue. There's obviously a big quarterback storyline this week and, you know, kind of subplots to go along with the quarterback storyline. And we're going to get into that. I wanted to start kind of with this, though. Andre Tonsal, one of our loyal listeners to Ivy Nation Sports Talk. He shot me a question on Twitter X today. Do you believe we were expecting too much from this team because of all the new additions they had and the pieces they had coming back without actually having seen them play? What do you guys think about that? Were the expectations too high for this team, considering all those moving parts that were coming in? I think in hindsight, it's easy to say that, you know, we were expecting a little bit too much. But, you know, I think that's what comes along with being, you know, the offensive coordinator, the quarterback, you know, the head coach at Notre Dame is you are expected by your fan base to at least, you know, make a playoff run at this point and have a realistic shot at the national championship. So, you know, when you are a part of some of these, what I would say, blue blood programs across the country, I think that's kind of, you know, the expectation every year is that you're getting good pieces. They're going to step in and collectively they're going to perform really well. But when you look back on it, this is a new offensive coordinator. It is a new quarterback. It is a new offensive line. It's a, you know, running back room that is has some experience, but still relatively inexperienced. And then, you know, a wide receiver group. That's kind of also mixed in match of guys who stayed, guys who came in through the portal, new wide receiver coach. So, there was a lot going on offensively. I will say that. But again, this is Notre Dame. And I do believe that, you know, we did expect all those pieces to come together much more, you know, quickly and naturally than what we've seen so far. Yeah, I don't, I honestly do not think the expectations were too high. There's a ton of talent on this team. We talked about it all off season, how deep this team is, you know, it's the deepest roster they've had and forever. That is still true. I mean, that hasn't changed. I don't think the expectations were too high because of that, you know, they lost to Northern Illinois. Like, even if they didn't have a deep roster, they should still beat Northern Illinois. So, I don't think the expectations were too high. I don't think we went, you know, too far off the reservation with, you know, some of our predictions and kind of the way we saw the season going. Look, nobody saw this coming unless your paycheck says Northern Illinois on it. Nobody saw this one coming. I'm sorry. Nobody did. Nobody believed in him. Nobody believed in him. Nobody believed in him. Nobody. Them brothers to the world. It's Northern Illinois versus everybody. I've heard that one before. But no, I just, I don't feel like we were wrong. I just think they didn't come to play period end of discussion. That's why, you know, what's the cliche? That's why they played a game. Well, you didn't come to play. You can't take teams for granted, you know, no matter what the level that they are, because they had all the time in the world to win that game. They didn't do it. I think you hit the nail on the head because it would have been one thing if they had lost to Texas A&M, but then come home and beaten Northern Illinois, then you could say, okay, maybe the expectations were too high. We're still finding out what Texas A&M is. I still think there'll be a decent team. Big game between them and Florida this weekend, by the way. You know, a couple of teams, I think, really trying to find themselves after opening weekend losses to pretty good teams and then, you know, beating the doors off a couple of FCS teams in week two. But, you know, I think maybe the biggest sort of heap of expectation that we put was with Riley Leonard in just the fact, maybe we underestimated based on everything that Marcus Freeman and Mike Dembrok are saying. And Mike Dembrok was saying a little bit of it even coming into the season about they're still kind of getting Riley Leonard up to speed with the offense. And I think if nothing else, there's definitely a disconnect. And, you know, we don't have to go down this rabbit hole completely. We're going to get into the Riley Leonard stuff. But there is a disconnect between, I think, what the head coach expects and then how that intertwines with what the offensive coordinator and the quarterback and the quarterbacks coach sort of how all that things up, it sounds like, based on the things that Marcus Freeman said last week, before the game and, you know, just everything else. But I do think maybe we underestimated the impact of Riley Leonard missing the spring, not being able to get into that offense with Mike Dembrok. But also, I do think that him coming back from this injury, it seemed like, if anything, like it could have been more on his mind last week than even in the opener against Texas A&M, just that some of the hesitancy that he had. What that's due to, is it because he's gun shy with that offensive line that's a little bit hit and miss and how much does that connect, you know, with the existing injury that he had. And of course, now he's got, to some extent, a new injury to go along with it with his non-throwing shoulder. I think all that's fair. I think the pushback that people are going to give when we say no, it was exactly what we think it's supposed to be. They just didn't play well, is the Riley Leonard effect. And I do think that that's legit. He's not, he is not even playing the way he played at Duke. And the discussion that we always had over the summer, if he just plays the way he did at Duke, this offense is going to be just fine. This team is going to be great. They're going to win a lot of games. He just, he doesn't even have to be better than he was. He just has to be who he was. Problem is, in the first two games, he's not that guy. He's a shell of himself, like not even close. And so, you know, you've got all the fanatics out there that are, you know, he's toxic, he's terrible. Well, that's what gets me is like everyone acting like, oh, Riley Leonard can't throw the ball. He's a horrible passer. You know, look, he was never a precision passer at Duke, but he was with the talent that he had around him at Duke. He's got more talent around him right now at Notre Dame. And he's got a better offensive coordinator than he had at Duke as well. So you can't tell me that with, when you throw 20 touchdowns in a season and run for 13 in the same season, that that shouldn't be able to translate. 100%. Yeah. So the evaluation wasn't wrong. She's not playing well. And now you have to dig into why is he not playing well? Is it the philosophy? Is it the coaching? Is it this, this, this, this, this? That's what they have to figure out. They have to figure out why he's played like garbage the past two games. 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Prize picks run your game. You've had Wendy's nugs dipped in sauce, but have you had them covered in sauce? Wendy's new saucy nugs takes the crispy and spicy nugs that you love and turn them up to 11. Choose between flavors like buffalo, honey barbecue, garlic parm, or if you're a real heat seeker, try spicy ghost pepper only on Wendy's signature spicy nugs. I dare ya. That's seven delicious ways to try the nugs you already love. Pick a flavor, grab some extra napkins and prepare to nug like you've never nugged before for a whole new way to nug. It's got to be Wendy's at participating U.S. Wendy's. I mean, Duke and his sophomore season, it was a 3,000 yard passer and a guy who also threw for 20 touchdowns. Those are good stats as a true sophomore in a power five conference. I would take those stats any day from a starting quarterback. I echo a lot of what Vince was saying. There is some sort of disconnect, and I don't know if it's, you know, Marcus Freeman is uncomfortable with the style of play that Riley Leonard truly, you know, the way he played at Duke and not wanting him maybe to play like that at Notre Dame, which would be very disappointing because it's, you don't go to the portal to get that type of quarterback and then not fully use him, you know, to his highest extent essentially and which he can be the most potent, you know, quarterback for this, for this team. And so, again, I don't know where that disconnect is, but, but it's definitely there and it's something that has to be resolved relatively quickly. Well, look, and I know a lot of people want to look at what he did last year and they say, well, even, you know, the first part of the season, he only threw for, what was it, three touchdown passes or something like that. Yeah, but he also ran for four more touchdowns and they won those games, including a season opening win over Clemson that was entirely between the defensive effort that Duke put on the field offensively. That game came down to Riley Leonard making a couple of plays and that's what you bring in Riley Leonard for. Like just looking ahead at his stats does not tell the story of Riley Leonard. They won those games. Most of them going into the Notre Dame game were blowouts, so he also wasn't playing in all those games and he didn't need to pass as much even when he was in those games because they were winning lopsided games and scoring 40 plus points. And then anything that he did after Notre Dame against Louisville and Florida State was obviously as we keep have kept trying to pound home all the time, Vince, that was after the leg injury. When you have a leg injury that obviously ultimately ended up requiring multiple surgeries. Once he got to Notre Dame between the leg and the toe, he wasn't able to plant off that back leg and he wasn't able to run the way he was before that. So, you know, like looking at last year is just, there's, there's, there's no sense in that. Really what you have to look at is 2022 when he was fully healthy. And again, like those first few games of last year. Okay. Yeah. He didn't throw a bunch of touchdown passes, but he's Riley Leonard. And he figured out a way to get things done. And that's why you go get Riley Leonard because because of all you have to do is look at Texas A&M. No, it was not a gem. But when the game was on the line, he found a way to get it done. And that's, again, that's why you wanted Riley Leonard. And, you know, whether your Marcus Freeman, Mike Dembrock, whoever it happens to be, that's the guy that you've got to fall back on. That's the, that's the guy that you've got to channel and let him play. And that's what it comes down to. That's the key. Let him play. They're not letting him play his game. Yes. They're, they are corralling him and they're trying to make him play a game that is not his. That's a problem. That's a philosophical problem. And not, it doesn't highlight what he's good at. Look, we were all sitting back and watching that game last Saturday. Notre Dame gets the ball back, you know, with, with whatever time was left on the clock. It was like, okay, well, it's Riley Leonard time. He's probably just going to run the ball 13 times, get him into field goal range or whatever and, and ice away this win. And it obviously didn't happen because they asked him to do something that he is frankly just not great at the other side of it though. Like how much do you think this shoulder injury played into that? Because he obviously didn't run at all in the second half. It's, it's hard to say because I don't think he really ran much after the first quarter. You know what I mean? Right. Even before the injury. Yeah. That's really hard to say to be perfectly honest with you. I feel like, and we've seen this with other teams, right? High school, college, you play a lesser opponent. Okay. Well, we're going to work on some stuff. We're going to work on some stuff. Exactly. You know what I'll let you take it from here. Because I think you and I are on the same wavelength, but like the work on stuff thing tends to bite you in the ass more than it does that it helps you. Well, the, the frustrating part about I, I can get, if you want to try to, you know, work on the passing game and maybe some of the downfield progressions and stuff like that. But it gets to the point in a game where you just like you got to do what's working and, and their lack of really running the ball I think is what annoyed me the most is they weren't showing anything in the passing game. And up to this point that the running game has been the most explosive part of their offense, whether it's, you know, Jadarion Price, Jeremiah Love, Riley Leonard. That's where all of their touchdowns have come on the ground running the ball. So at some point you had to abandon, you know, this, this idea of what you wanted to do in terms of the past game and just find a way to win. And to me that was incorporating the running game more and especially, you know, in the second half. And I think what this is kind of turning into, you know, and to answer your previous question, I think we'll have a really good understanding of Riley Leonard's ability to run the ball after the first quarter in the pre-game. Yeah. I think we're going to know right away. I think, yeah. I agree. But, you know, like to the whole who the opponent is and how you play the opponent game plans, because I, I agree, like, and we've seen it in the past as well, even, even Brian Kelly fell into it. And the worst case scenario is I know you brought it up was Ball State a few years ago when they were playing the number twos and threes, giving their more reps during the week because they were planning on them being able to get out there and play because they thought they were going to be blowing out ball state on Saturday. And obviously they barely pulled out a win over the Cardinals. But pulmonary, the former Notre Dame baseball coach won a national championship. Obviously at LSU a few years back, he's now at South Carolina. But, you know, he, he was here at Notre Dame and I had the fortune to get to work with him when I was doing play by play for the baseball team. The thing I learned from him right away is you play your game and you play your best until like those guys give you the kind of lead that warrants you take the foot off the pedal and you start putting in some of the subs. You don't plan on the subs and you don't, you know, you don't play a different kind of game early on, you play your game to the hilt and you go full throttle with your starters and then your starters earn the opportunity for the number twos and number threes to ultimately get in the game. You don't start dinking and dunking around like it looks like they did last week because they had a one touchdown lead. You got to keep doing that. Go full throttle when it's when it's 28 to nothing or 35 to nothing or 33 to, you know, whatever to six or whatever it happens to be when you've got a four plus touchdown lead, that's when you think about, okay, now we can start doing some other things and work on this and work on that. That's like, again, it's just a completely wrong mindset. Yes. And that's what got him into this, you know, into this problem to begin with. I don't think Notre Dame has an identity on offense. And so I think that contributes to the consistency of this is how we're going to play and this is how we're going to, you know, execute really well. And then once, you know, like you were saying, you take the foot off the pedal, but to me, that's just another kind of big glaring problem is I just don't think Notre Dame has the identity of who they are offensively and how they're going to move the ball and score points quite yet. That's what comes off to me. I have no idea what this offense even wants to be right now. That's why it's a game to game situation, guys. So we talked to Marcus Freeman Thursday and we asked him how Riley Leonard looked in practice this week and have there been any changes in the duties of the quarterbacks, other, you know, any of the quarterbacks in practice this week? Nobody's roles have changed. Riley's had a really good week of practice, has made some really good throws and done a really good job at decision making, taking care of the football. And everybody else has done a great job too in terms of what they've been asked to do, but nobody's been asked to do anything differently this week than previously. And we won't play as comments, but that also asked him about CJ Carr specifically. CJ Carr and Kenny Menchie, what Marcus Freeman said, have been splitting the scout team in number three reps. And the number three reps at practice are very minimal. So like you're actually going to get more scout team reps, but you're obviously not running the Notre Dame offense, you're running the other team's offense. But that's how those two have spent most of these first three weeks of the season with Riley Leonard getting the first team reps and Steve Angeli, the number two reps. And as he said, no changes, you know, so like, you know, this, this reports of the shoulder injury and all that. I have no doubt that he heard his shoulder, you know, to me, it's to what extent he heard his shoulder and how that potentially limits him. And again, as you guys said, I think we find that out relatively early on. I'm just going to ask you Vince, I'm going to take a flame thrower to this show right now. And I'm going to say Vince, if this is the offense that they're going to run, would they be better off just going with Steve Angeli? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. There is not one moment where I thought, yeah, Steve Angeli could do that better than Riley Leonard. Not one time. I'm sorry. Not one time. If you're trying to read between the lines of what the coaches think of Steve Angeli, okay, he's the second string quarterback, he's getting second team reps, blah, blah, blah. Okay, great. If everybody's speculation that Riley Leonard is as hurt as he is or, you know, really damaged himself and they're like, yeah, no, right letter starting. What does that tell you about Steve Angeli? What does that tell you about their opinion of Steve? It isn't really though, or, you know, you've got a high profile transfer and are you really going to bench him after two games, or, you know, are they full speed ahead on, you know, I realized they're going to play the best chance to win. But what have we seen about this game plan, about Riley Leonard, about anything that says this is the guy who gives you the best chance to win right now? There is no throw on the football field that Steve Angeli can make that Riley Leonard can't. Okay, hold on. I don't disagree with that, but you've also got to pull the trigger like you know, like you talked about on the throw to Chris Mitchell that was intercepted, there were two guys running wide open underneath. There were plenty of throws like that. And so I guess my point is, and Jesse, I'll let you weigh in after I give my counterpoint to Vince because I do still think Riley Leonard is the better quarterback, but they also have to, as we've said, let Riley Leonard do Riley Leonard things. I mean, that's, that's essentially the best way I can put it. Like he's done Riley Leonard things. He did Riley Leonard things against Texas A&M and they won the ball. He did Riley Leonard things in the first drive of the game last week and they scored a touchdown, including him diving into the end zone. But for 90% of the game, they didn't let him do not Riley Leonard things, but, but he's not even making the checkdowns is my point. Like we can, you know, we can jab Steve Angeli for being checked down Charlie and all this different stuff. And I guess that's my point. Like I would take the checkdowns. If it means you're going to throw some passes, at least last week, Riley Leonard was not even willing to throw. And, you know, so I guess that's my point. Like Angeli's not going to give you the dual threat aspect that Leonard gives you, but he is at least willing to throw the football, you know, underneath and, and give your offense a chance to move the ball. But he's also not going to be able to make those checkdowns on the bat on his backside, which I think would also happen just where you get to weigh in now, you've heard both sides. Look, don't feel like you've got to agree with me because like early in the week, especially like I was not, I was not on that. But you know, again, it's like when you look at what they've asked Riley Leonard to do and what he, at least for one game was not willing to do, that's, that's kind of it's like, man, would you just be better off, you know, with then jelly pulling the trigger? Jess, go ahead. So I think there's a lot of layers to this question. I'll start off with just kind of the overall, I would not go to Stephen and jelly. I think Riley Leonard does give you the best chance at winning the game. He's the most proven quarterback on the field. You know, a lot of people like to bring up, you know, okay, what did Angeli do last year? What are you doing his start in the bowl game? That's out the window to me. All the time that he was in, it was in mop up, you know, second, third string and against Oregon State, he's going to get to team where it's head coach, just hit the road to go to Michigan State. All their star players are out. You know, I felt like Notre Dame had more talent on the field in that game point blank. So I thought Stephen jelly was, was going to do better and they had, you know, a monster high game. But Notre Dame had more talent on the field last week too. So. Right. And I think Notre Dame had a good amount of time to game plan for that game. But what I'm going to say though, is I think that Riley Leonard has a leash if he is truly hurt and no longer a, you know, a dual, dual threat quarterback if they're not willing to use his legs or his legs are compromised because of the shoulder. I do think he has a leash in the passing game, but you know, I think in jelly, even if he comes in and makes some of those kind of check downs, you know, simpler throws, those are going to get ate up at some point. And I think that it's, it's easy schematically on defense to kind of start taking those kind of plays away. And then we again, get into the same kind of question of, you know, how are they going to get the ball down the field to that? How are they not going to take that away with Riley Leonard? If he's not even throwing, you know, like there's, there's no real threat of a, well, I think that's where like the RPO stuff comes in, his legs come in and that's where I'm trying to say. Let me ask you about RPOs then because they, they used more RPOs in the opener against Texas A&M looked like just one against Northern Illinois last week. Do you think that they didn't use as many last week because Leonard was not making the correct reads when they did try them against Texas A&M? I do think that he wasn't making the best reads against Texas A&M. It felt like there were times where he was, you know, making the wrong one and kind of, you know, could have kept it and used the situation to make a play with his legs or with his arm kind of on the perimeter. But you know, going to, this all goes back to the same point to me as in that game against Northern Illinois, why do you not have more design RPOs because that is the type of game that Riley Leonard plays. So again, it feels like we're not taking Riley Leonard's skillset and best utilizing, you know, everything else around him to, to, you know, run this offense essentially because even if his shoulder is, you know, somewhat banged up, you can still, you know, use the threat of the RPO and make them, you know, make those linebackers and safeties have to honor it. And that's just going to help your past game even more. And I said this the other day, there's still ways that he can run the ball without taking it hit, right? And I think that especially comes in the RPO situations where you can get to the sideline and get out of bounds without taking, I mean, you know, a hit essentially. So I said, that's stuff that you can more incorporate even with the compromised shoulder. As a true runner, he hasn't taken a big hit so far. The hit that he took where he got injured was when he got sacked when they left him in the pocket, you know, so it's like you, you gotta get him out of the pocket. And I think he's, I think he's better avoiding contact that way because nearly other big hit he took was illegal. And they got an extra 15 yards out of it, you know what I mean? Yeah. I just think you've got to move the pocket, allow him, he's not a true, you know, three step, five step drop quarterback step up into the pocket and make a throw. I think those kind of more RPO quick, you know, you can move kind of do these like sprint out concepts where you're moving the line and the, and the quarterback, you know, horizontally sideline to sideline. And that's going to help the offensive line as well. So they don't have to pass protect the same way. And that's there been some good, there's been some bad Anthony nap, according to PFF is the lowest rated of the offensive lineman. I think he's got like a 54% pass block grade. Let me double check this here real quick. I don't want to disparage Anthony nap. I mean, you know, obviously he's been thrust into a situation. Yeah. He's passed block against Texas A&M he had a grade of 25, he had a grade of 59 against Northern Illinois and the scale goes up to 100 by the way, you know, so that kind of gives you an idea. But as I've said during the week as well, the running backs have to be better because they're not fairing that well either in blitz pickup and things like that. You know, like Jess, you and I were, we've been talking about, well, I'll say the Jeremiah love Jadari in price because I'm going to save that specific to the game plan against Purdue. I want to get one final thought in about the quarterbacks and then we can kind of move on and look at Purdue here a little bit. So Freeman talked about what it would take to make a change in the game at quarterback if Riley Leonard is struggling. I don't know if there's an exact parameter. We have to have success. We have to move the ball. We got to score points. And so if we're not able to do that, then you got to make changes. But there was no consideration of changing Riley that last game. No consideration of changing him in the last game, which I think goes back to Vince's point, probably what they think of Steve and Jelly. What would it take for you guys to make a change at quarterback or probably Leonard is struggling. Vince is going ahead. He can't walk anymore. I mean, injured so that he can't play the position. That's honestly the answer, like not. So injury is the only thing. You know, what if he, what if he throws a couple more bad interceptions like that would give you no pause at all? It really just depends on how those interceptions that they bounce off a guy's chest, you know, don't go into some go into a defender's hands like I can't just say blanket interceptions. I need to see what those interceptions. Bad interception, like like the second interception, the, you know, intended for Chris Mitchell last week was what I would call a bad interception. The first one was tipped. So you can't at least, you know, so if he, if he throws, I guess two or three of those and they can't score any other way, then yeah, I guess you make a change at that point. Yeah. Go. Okay. I think if they haven't scored an offensive touchdown by halftime in this game, I like that's kind of the answer to me. If they're if they're losing in a game where they don't have an offensive touchdown, you know, a 10, three game, a seven zero game is getting stuffed to, you're going to just put in the second team offense. No, I guess I'd have to see, you know, what all that's that's like kind of what you were saying. That question of seeing how the first half game plan unfolds, you know, are they doing think who's hurting who essentially is the game plan, you know, hurting Riley Leonard is right. Leonard hurting the game plan slash the entire offense, but you know, if they, if they can't get anything, you know, going in the past game, enough to, you know, put points on the, on the board, I would be confident to say if they don't have an offensive touchdown by halftime, you'd have to do something to, to try to, you know, salvage. You can't lose two in a row to be quite honest with you. So you at that point, I think you have to do whatever you, whatever it takes to, to try to win essentially. Yeah. And that's your point about you can't be two and O Marcus Freeman has used up all his free passes now and he probably used him up last year, but this is obviously a tipping point now. And it's really, it's a very pivotal time in Marcus Freeman's career because you lose this game. You lose to Purdue, two teams you were supposed to be, you're not going to the college football playoff. Like that is completely out of the picture. And it just throws into doubt anything that's going to happen this season. Would you still consider Purdue a rival because they're in state? I know they haven't played. I mean, they're, they're a historic rival. Sure. Yeah. I would, I mean, I would definitely say like all right. Yeah. They're a historic rival. But this series was played every year for what was it 60, 70, some 80, you know, whatever it from 1946 to 2014, whatever that is, you know, how bad my math is. So that's what 70 years roughly, some 20, I think it was 66, but they've only played I think twice since then the game a couple of years ago at home and they played that game down in India a few years ago in a shamrock series game. So like none of the players really for either team, I think consider this a rivalry at this point. Like the schools, you know, the schools obviously to some extent, because you do play for the Chalalee trophy and all that different stuff. There's at least a rivalry aspect, but I just, it doesn't fit. You know, it's, it's, it's definitely not Notre Dame USC and it's not even Notre Dame Navy at this point. So fair. I mean, I get it. That's fair. I guess the reasoning for my question was, does it provide more, you know, market stream and loses to me, it's like, well, now you've lost to an in state team, you know, one of your consider rival, you know what I mean, just kind of like the impacts that it can have. I mean, a loss is a loss. Yeah. At this point, it doesn't even matter who it is if they lose again to an inferior opponent. If they lose again, then it doesn't matter who it is, like, I understand where you're coming from. I mean, like, do you agree? Like Marcus Freeman goes to the hot seat right away. It's already on this game. Yeah. I think he's already on it. He's getting preheated right now. Yeah. I mean, it's warming up. Yeah. If he, if he loses, then the oven's ready and the, the pizza's ready to go in. Are you, let me ask you this, are either one of you going to feel different about this team if they just go out and wax for do or do they continue to do that every week after week after week? No, honestly, they do because they, that's how they should have beaten Northern Illinois last week. Right. One game is not going to change my thoughts. No. I'm not going to change anyone's opinion. Now it's, now it's a matter of, you know, it's still the, the, the, the bigger question with, with Freeman now because of last week is do you get your team prepared to play an opponent, regardless of what the opponent is, who the opponent is, what level they're supposed to be? Can you be consistent over the course of the season? Yeah. He's going to have to do that over the course of this entire season. And then he's going to have to wax on, wax on and repeat it again next year. Like it's got a, it's got to continue. That's said coming into the season. That was the biggest question I have about him. And unfortunately, after two weeks, that's now the biggest question that I have about him going forward. Like all the other stuff is there, there's so much good stuff that Marcus Freeman does, but this is a huge issue. Like you can, every team is going to suffer an upset or have a near upset at some point, but you can't do that when you've got a decided talent advantage and you lose to three different teams in a, in a two plus year period that, that when you run them all out on the field, you were definitely better than, and you can probably throw Louisville into the mix as well. You know, like if you just look at recruiting ratings, Notre Dame should have been better than Louisville last year, but they were outcoached and outplayed by Louisville. They were outcoached by Clemson last year as well. Yeah. So my buzzword, it's just all about consistency, you know, well, I feel better if they wax Purdue for sure, if they can, you know, cause that I think leads to optimism and hope that this thing isn't as bad as what it is and that, you know, maybe it wasn't just a slight derailment. Was it a blip? Yeah. Yeah. And so that's, I would feel better for sure. And like I said, the big thing was the big word is consistency. And I think that in order for us as fans to feel good, it's got to happen against Purdue, Miami of Ohio all the way up until, you know, USC and to be quite honest with you, I don't think, I don't think Marcus Freeman will be forgiven for, for this loss specifically because we got to this point because of the losses to, you know, Marshall, Stanford, Louisville, we got to this point and I feel like the NIU game is, is, is kind of the tipping point for a lot of people. I don't think he'll be forgiven until he has postseason success. You know, that's, I don't even think getting to the playoff is enough. I think they'd have to, you know, go in this season on a hot streak, get into the playoff and at least win one game in the playoffs to be ultimately forgiven for what happened against Northern Illinois. I don't disagree with any of that. Light it. Hey, Irish breakdown listeners. It's Urban Meyer. This fall, the game changes. In me, Heisman Trophy winner, Mark Ingram and broadcaster Rob Stone as we bring you a new perspective on football and culture every week. We will be joined by the biggest name in sports and talk about everything inside and outside of the lines. Let us guide you through a new era of college football. Watch triple option on YouTube or listen on Apple podcast, Spotify or wherever you get podcasts. Hey Irish breakdown listeners. It's Matt Liner. I've got a podcast called Throwbacks with actor Jay Farrar. We'll be talking all things sports, but also so much more. We'll give you the behind the scenes stories from my days as the quarterback on an iconic college football team to Jerry's days as a star on an iconic TV series. So subscribe to Throwbacks on YouTube, Apple podcast, Spotify or wherever you get podcasts. As for Purdue, they're led by second year head coach Ryan Walters, former defensive coordinator, but they were a bad defensive team last year, number 92 scoring defense in the nation, worst team of the big 10 against the run. I'm not sure if Vince is still the, yeah, I was going to say, I think Vince Farrar there. I hadn't seen his lips move in quite a while. I'll throw it to you first, Jesse. How confident are you the Irish can run against the Boilermakers? I think that that is, honestly, their best chance at winning this game. And I think that they do have a strong chance at running the ball. Jeremiah Love is averaging, you know, just over around 75 yards and not even point eight per carry. He's averaging 6.8 per carry for the season on 25 carries, price has 15 carries for 103 yards. And I mean, like that, that is one game's worth basically for, you know, I realize they're splitting reps and loves getting a little bit more, but they both got a healthy yards per carry averages. I mean, Jeremiah Love is averaging 85 yards a game and 6.8 per carry. And those don't even factor in the, that he didn't touch the ball. But once the entire second half against Northern Illinois, right? And so, you know, this is a guy that I think could average, that could easily be average in a hundred yards a game. And he had a really good game against a good Texas A&M defense. He should have had an even better game against NIU if he would be, you know, continuously be fed the ball. And I think, you know, Purdue run defense wise is going to be the worst of the three that Notre Dame has seen so far this season. And so, I do believe that Jeremiah Love should and company should be able to have a field day with, you know, with the Purdue defense. And I think the run game has to open up some of those layups that we were talking about with Riley Leonard and get him kind of comfortable in the game. This seems so odd. And I realize you do have a different offensive coordinator and a different kind of quarterback Vince than what Notre Dame has had in the past, but it just seems so simple. It doesn't the offense just kind of need to start running through the running backs right now to kind of help out the quarterback and everything else around them. Just get them moving the ball, considering, you know, again, Love is averaging 6.8 per carry. Price is averaging around five and a half per carry. And they only combine for 15 carries last week. It just seems like a pretty simple solution. It's the classic phrase, right, coaching malpractice. I mean, isn't it that like, isn't, you know, when you look at the stats and you look at the fact that they went away from the running game when they did, that's coaching malpractice man. Like, how are you not giving two of the most dynamic players on your roster, the football when in crunch time, when it matters, doesn't make any sense to me. It just doesn't. Name as a team is averaging 5.2 a carry, you know, between Ryan Leonard, Jadarion, Price, Jeremiah Love. Like, that's, I'm sorry, but that's what, and I, you did to beat Notre Dame last week. They stuck to the run game first and second down, bludgeon them, got some, you know, manageable third downs. Sometimes they'd get stopped, but most of the time they were picking it up and extending the drive and continuously moving down the field. And so if I'm Notre Dame, I run the ball until Purdue shows me that they can stop the ball. Stop them. And, you know, look, I, I don't know, I'm sure Nia's Williams did something to kind of earn his way, you know, into the rotation after we didn't see him against Texas A&M. But, you know, time and place, again, your best guys should be on the field until you have a comfortable enough margin and then you start working in whether it's Williams or Ford and, you know, all this, like these two guys, Love and Price need to be staples on the field. PFF ranks them as Notre Dame's two highest graded offensive players. Love is at the top. Price is second. You know, who's next after that actually, Billy Shrouthe and Emil Wagner, the right side of the line. And like I've said this before, like, if you need to get some tough yards, just run right behind me. Shrout, that's literally all you have to do 100% especially when you've got like, think about the crease that Jeremiah Love worked his way through to get that touchdown against Texas A&M. It's tiny. Yeah. That's all you need. Get small, baby. We're dynamic. Get small. I mean, they all that both those guys make second level linebackers and safeties look silly. Like they have the moves and the speed to make a guy a mess and just be gone, ultimately. Yep. It's what James Cook did last night in that long run for the bills. Right. Right. Well, and we were talking about how if you look at H& the Miami Dolphins running back, the things that he was doing last night, little simple screen passes, stuff like that. I mean, Purdue likes to blitz a lot, Jess. It feels like there are just some easy ways that you can both get Riley Leonard comfortable in this game with some easy layups and really exploit some of the aggressiveness that Purdue wants to have against Notre Dame defensively. Yeah. I'm glad that you brought this up because, you know, if, if Purdue wants to, and not even if they don't want to blitz, I just think that when we're talking about today, who are the most explosive electric players on offense, Jeremiah Love, Jadarion Price, if you can't get them, and if your passing game is struggling, why not work them into the passing game too? Right. And so that's where it kind of, where it comes in now is, you know, if teams want to blitz you and play man, especially on the perimeter, just flare your back out, you know, just dump it down to him, have a design screen or a design check where you isolate your running back in man coverage with a slow linebacker from Purdue on the perimeter, right? And just have Riley Leonard just get the ball to him. And again, I think that helps both parties because one, you're getting your best playmaker the ball in space into your letting, Riley Leonard see someone catch the ball. I think that's half the battle. It's like when guys are doing, you know, bad and basketball, they just need to see the ball go through the hoop, essentially. And I think the same thing holds true for Riley Leonard. It doesn't matter if it's a, you know, a 50 yard bomb, a 20 yard poster out or a screen to your running back. Just let him see someone catch the ball, essentially, right? And so if Purdue wants to blitz and play a ton of man, then I think that's even more of a reason to slip your running backs out there and let them, you know, take advantage of man coverage. Absolutely. And I'm glad you use the basketball analogy since Riley Leonard was a hoopster in high school as well. So yeah, it just, again, seems like there are some, but I do like that, you know, because like the saying shooters just got to keep on shooting. And then once it finally starts going through the hoop, they get a little bit comfortable. And you know, so if you have to give Riley Leonard some buddies or, you know, give him a mid range game or however you want to kind of continue that basketball analogy, I think that that's all you have to do between those two running backs coming out of the backfield, especially love, though, and the fact that you've got a tight end like Mitchell Evans, who showed he could make a big play for you over the middle on that little skinny post last week. Just more of that, there's so many mismatches that, that, that those guys and you can throw a great house in there as well. There's so many mismatches that they can cause and it doesn't have to be all downfield. I know everyone wants to see the big, sexy plays downfield, but right now I'd take a just some, some short and intermediate passes to get them going because they've got playmakers who can do a really good things with the ball once it's in their hands. And in an ideal world, this is like me, you know, daydreaming here, just go 21 personnel with Mitchell Evans, Jadarion Prize, Jeremiah Love, have both of those guys or all of those guys, you know, basically either one in a power run scheme. And then if you hit a play action, just have Jadarion, Jeremiah, and Mitchell Evans all on short routes where you can just dink and dunk them, you know, all day essentially because you can do so much in terms of movement. So I just think, I think that would be, I think you're speaking the love language of a lot of people right now when you start talking about 21 personnel. Well, and those guys can lead block for ridle of Leonard too. That's what I mean. That's a great power. It's a great power look too, because now you got three bodies all ahead of him. If he does exactly all under five yards, it would just be so optimal to get, you know, those you're too most, again, explosive guy or players on the field at the same time, and then how you can combine off of that. So again, that's that's daydreaming, but I hope maybe we see some of that at some point. And only hope Hudson card, 15 touchdowns, eight interceptions last year, completed little under 59% of his passes, had 200 rushing yards, he also ran for five touchdowns, you know, so he can run a little bit, not a runner like Riley Leonard, either one of you have any definitive thoughts on Hudson card personally, you know, like I equate him a little bit like to a Connor Wigman. And I think from a personnel standpoint, I think it's going to be fairly similar to A&M and that I just don't think he has, he's got a nice running back, but I don't, you know, as far as passing targets, I don't think he's got enough around him to match up with Notre Dame. What do you think, Vince? I would say, I would say I would have said the same thing about going to Illinois, obviously. Yeah, it's fair, but but they came out with a very specific game plan and just exploded Notre Dame. We can't keep going back to that. Well, that that's that's kind of lazy, but look, Hudson card, I know was, you know, one of the people that they thought Notre Dame, she'd get two years ago when they got Sam Hartman, right? Her year and a half ago, whatever the timeline is, I was never all that impressed with Hudson card. I mean, it felt like when he landed it, Purdue was like, Oh, okay, that sounds about right. You know, he's got some talent and he can spread the ball around, but you're right. I don't think the talent around him is enough to make it work offensively. I think the biggest thing with Hudson card is, you know, coming out of high school, he was a big deal, he was recruited by Texas. That's where he spent his first three seasons and in his second and third season, he split a lot of time at quarterback and now he's in his second season at Purdue. I don't think he's this overly, you know, gun slinger, someone that, you know, Notre Dame needs to be ultimately over concerned with. I think the thing that they need to be concerned with is he is, you know, this is his fifth year of college football and I think that, you know, leadership and executing a game plan is something that he can do. And so Notre Dame can't fall on the traffic end up because I think Purdue is going to run the ball a lot and I think they're going to ask Hudson card to kind of work off that run game a little bit and just do enough in the passing game to kind of, you know, maybe pick up some first downs or, you know, get some, get them into scoring position type situation. But I think Purdue is going to be a run, you know, run first team and allow the past to kind of build off of that. So again, I, I look at Hudson card as more of a leader, a guy who can execute the game plan and really just an overall kind of game manager against Notre Dame. Cause I think, you know, if you ask him to do much more out of that than that, I think that's when you'll get uncomfortable and turn the ball over, get into interceptions and stuff like that. Before we get into rapid fire, I wanted to look at Notre Dame's strong side defensive end position because Josh Burnham heard his ankle at the end of the game last week, excuse me, between him and RJ open, he is far and away been the better of the two. I mean, open ended up sitting on the bench for, you know, a good majority of the game while Burnham was out there last week, but he is questionable, according to Notre Dame. Could see more Bryce Young and I know that makes a lot of people happy because everyone gets happy when you start bringing in the, you know, the high rated freshmen, young guns and all that kind of stuff, but you know, he is still young. He's only played two snaps so far this year. And remember they didn't play him against NIU last week. So you've got potentially Burnham out, open, who's been MIA so far, maybe more young. How confident are you in this strong side defensive end position going into this game? As confident as I thought I was going to be going into game three, that's for sure. I mean, I just, you know, with Burnham out and, you know, open pretty much being, like you said, MIA, I am hoping that it's time for him to step up. Look, again, we've seen him be successful at Duke, right? We've seen him be successful. Now they're asking him to do some different things that he didn't necessarily do at Duke and maybe the lowering curve is, you know, too high or whatever, but, you know, man, he's not showing anything, let alone not understanding the defense. So hoping to see something out of this position and now with some added reps, maybe for the young gun, maybe, maybe we're going to see some flash there and maybe RJ open, this is his chance to, you know, really step up, put up or shut up, you know, kind of a situation because look, Burnham has played well so far now, obviously he's not going to play this week. So if young shows that he can do it and Burnham has already shown that he can do it, you know, this might be the opportunity here for, for Oban to be like, hey, either you do it or these young guys are going to get more playing time. Yeah, I'm going to kind of go up, piggyback off of some of the stuff Vince was saying there. And I'll just flat up say RJ Oban has been unacceptable at the defensive in position. The starting defensive in position, I guess I should rephrase that too. I think Josh Burnham has been playing better than him, even though he's listed as the backup, you know, on the dev chart right now. And so I, I, not to be dramatic, but this is a make or break game for RJ Oban. I think if he can't get it done and, you know, Josh Burnham isn't available, I'm, I'm not going to feel good about that position because he's looked slow so far, he's looked a step behind, a bit confused and I think I said this yesterday on the show, they just need someone on, especially in that NIU game, they just need someone to set the edge. And then, and then if the play is going away from him, someone who can squeeze down the line and be there for that, that kind of cutback run. And I think that if RJ Oban doesn't, you know, doesn't step up, I, I do believe that Bryce Young is he's more athletic, he's more agile, he's more, you know, someone who can set the edge, someone who can be there in, in terms of the cutback lanes and stuff like that. So, you know, even if that's the situation, I think that you'd ultimately have to find maybe someone else that can play that position too. I don't know if that's Judy, it's really Alamaca or who that might be. But again, this to me is a make or break game for RJ Oban. And I think they, someone, someone else, you know, again, even if Burnham is getting minimal reps because of the injury, I'm sure he's, at least tested the ankle this week. But if, if he's not able to go, then they have to have been working someone else with some reps at that position as well. Maybe it is to be Alamaca since he hasn't had, you know, he hasn't seen action on the other side, the Viper side so far. The intriguing one, and I think that everyone kind of got intrigued about it a little bit. Jason Onier, who's of course a defensive tackle, they moved him outside to that end position against like kind of some jumbo personnel that NIU put on the field last week. So he was over there. I do wonder, you know, like again, like if it's not going well with Oban and you've only got so many bodies out there, somebody's got to be a number two, you know, whether it's Bryce Young or somebody else and it feels like maybe, maybe Onier could fit that bill because he does have a, you know, a bigger body, he does have some length, I mean, basically, you know, like you said, the main thing you want is, is set the edge and, you know, so like this, does Onier kind of have the discipline, I guess, since he's not used to playing that position, being able to do that kind of thing. I don't know. I'm going to be curious to see where they go if Burnt's not out there though. Yeah, for sure. [Music] At King Super's Pharmacy, Care is making it easy to get vaccinated. Care is helping you stay protected from flu, COVID, and RSV. Seasonal vaccines are available seven days a week with evening hours. Care is giving you a shot at staying healthy this season. 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