[music] Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the Darryl Talks Podcast. Today we've got a first, the Darryl Talks Podcast is branching out. I've got my first episode with somebody that I haven't had the privilege of meeting yet. This episode is going to definitely brighten up your day. It is a success story, I feel so privileged to be able to share their story. So please welcome China. Hello. As per every episode, we are going to start off with some icebreaker questions. So first question is, if you were to attend a dinner party with three people, they're alive, who would they be? Celebrities? Crikey. Only three. So it's just a kindle lit supper then. It's not a real full of people that William would normally want. No, no. I suppose for a spare time, love books. I'm very creative. Love for anything to do with the arts. I would have to pick a writer and party about Alice in Wonderland. So, Louise Carol Charles Fotchen, as is known. What would you want to ask him? Oh, have you read his stories? Yeah. He lives in this most magical world. I love people that have really creative imaginations and I think when you can sit and read a book and you get lost in their world, they've got such a skill at doing this, just being surrounded by all that creativity and understanding how he sort of came up with those ideas, those characters, every little minute detail, I'm a real detail girl. So I love the books because you always get a little bit of extra detail as opposed to movies. You know, I suppose, putting forward to someone like JK Rowling with their Harry Potter, the success she's got, you read the books and it's a totally different experience to watching the movies. You know, so she could possibly be another one. If at all, my other thing, I really, really like Agatha Christie. Agatha Christie. Love classic. Love Agatha. I'm a major, major Agatha fan and I suppose, oh, I don't know, if I had to pick one, maybe Agatha because she disappeared for a while and I want to know why and it's never been answered in my head. No way. You know, she disappeared intentionally. You ever feel like you just want to skate for a bit and I thought, I wonder why? How did she do it? Yeah. Bobbie C, I suppose, but then it was a little simpler to do it. Now you have trackers on phones and so I suppose, yeah, if that was a writer and then I definitely need a musician there, love music, being an ex dancer, absolutely adore music, but that is absolutely who do you choose. I mean, my playlist is so varied. I like different types of things depending on what mood I'm in. I'm so similar. You know, so do you have a bit of Freddie, you know, Queen, amazing. He's on my list. Queen, I think Freddie, you'd definitely be on the list. I'll mind you at Elton John, love him as well. He thought so on my list. This is scary. Are you sure we've not met him? I know. I know. That is so weird. That is really, really strange, isn't it? Or you would have, oh, who else can I think of? If Will was at the party, I'd have to invite Elvis because he's crazy about Elvis. And then artist, oh, do I go old on you? I think, do you know what? The one that really intrigues me and I have a billion questions to ask him will be Banksy. Oh my God. That's such a good one. It's either Agatha Christie, Lewis Carroll, and probably Freddie or Elton. That is a fantastic list. A couple of invites out and see who I accepted. No, that is incredible. And actually, the point that you said about reading a book, totally understand that. It's just getting lost, I think, in those magical plays. I love the mixture of reality with fantasy. So for somebody to be able to paint a picture away, there is so much, so many elements that could be true. That's what really gets me. And not knowing what's fact and what's fiction is amazing to me because I can just get lost in it. Second question then, if you were to get lost on an island, what free things would you take? I think it would probably be my sketchpad and pencil and probably a book. But what book would it be? It'd have to be the complete works of Lewis Carroll, wouldn't it? Well done. You found a loop holder. Absolutely, they have to do that. That's it. I can go back to that. Yeah. I think I would need something that I could get lost in. And if it wasn't too rainy and it was really rainy and umbrella, I suppose. Hey, Game Boy. Absolutely. Hey, Game Boy. I can't. I can't. We've found your spirit animal. That's it. I don't even need to ask that as an icebreaker question. So third and final question, what is a completely mundane thing that you absolutely love to do? Do you want, I'm, I'm a really simple sort of person. There's a lot of mundane, I think. I wouldn't say that I'm extra ordinary in anything, way, shape or form. And it's the little things that I really, really like, like, that's it. I don't like getting wet. I love having the windows open when it's raining. I love listening to the rain, love water. Let's get into it. First question is, who are you, Charlie? I am probably to my friends, Charlie. Just, you know, the creative little butterfly that can't sit still, always be like that. Can imagine 20 different things that are impossible before breakfast. Well, I've made a list and tried to get all 20 of them done before I go rest my head on my pillow. That's who I am as a person, but in business, I am actually one of the founders of a Teddy Bear company called Charlie Bear. Teddy Bear designer. A Teddy Bear designer? I know. Before we get into that, because that is the current year, where did it all begin? What did, what did you start with? I was very creative at school, probably a little bit of a chat box. I was a member of the school reports coming home after parents evening and being slightly apprehensive, I have really, really, really supported parents and both, luckily, are also quite creative. A sister and a brother as well, who also are self-employed and very creative. So we're quite a creative family. You know, we always found wonder, I suppose, in very little things. We didn't have lots of money when we were little, but I did. I never felt that was important. Never missed it. You know, we were really looking that we have parents that could find wonder in just about everything we did, whether it was boot belt picking, collecting leaves, creating collages, making things. They always kept us really, really, really entertained like that, which is why I believe that, as a whole, family, we're really, really creative. We didn't have that toy that everybody wanted and we didn't have, you know, things like that. But we never missed out. I think what we lacked for us, I suppose, in that situation, you know, we gained in some other ways, you know, which is why we enjoy coloring, doodling, drawing, sketching, reading, but not shows for Mom and Dad and things like that. You know, it was always, it was always something that I think back now, it's absolutely why I'm like I am, someone with my sister and my brother, too. Yeah, that was kind of the beginning. I was a little funny for Naka Pan, as, you know, Mom and Dad would call me, I'd answer my pants. And I used to go to school and all that. I loved school. I wasn't particularly clever at school. I would have said I was probably quite mainstream, had to work really, really hard to, on the subjects that I suppose I wasn't very passionate about. No, so the maths, yeah, to the science, all the, like, what I would class as logical stuff, you know. I knew that I wanted to do something creative at the time. I sort of ballet dance from being very young, which was wonderful, absolutely loved it. I had a real passion for music, loved dancing movement and that freedom that it brought. And so I always wanted to be a dancer. So whenever I had my careers, it was like, well, Charlie's done all right. She's got her C, but she'd probably be better in a role of, you know, I've never been a nurse or a vet or a lawyer or a doctor or anything like that. But I had my own little skill set, you know, where I could sort of walk into the room and find wonder anywhere, you know, being really interesting people. And I like just being me, like, centric, but I was having this discussion with somebody the other day. What people would class as weird at school? When you grow up, you are the most amazing people and the most interesting people in a room. You don't have to be the loudest, don't have to be, but you are always the most interesting people in the room. Yeah, definitely. I think it is. It's very nature and nurture. There's always that big question, isn't there? And I think, you know, like I said, you know, I've been so privileged in that throughout my whole life, I've been surrounded by people that have been uber supportive, you know, and I suppose accepted me for who I am. Did you continue? I did with ballet. Ballet, yeah. So ballet, yeah. Ballet was my love. It was absolutely my love and started off at Little Dan School, up in Leeds and heading way and went through all of the usual, you know, starting a baby class, doing good toes, and then working my way up through all of the grades and getting all of my exams and passing them and really, really enjoyed it. And then one summer, Mum and Dad had this huge surprise for me and they sent me off during the six-week holiday to go to a ballet school where I could spend most of my six-week holiday from school learning how to dance. And we had lots of guest famous ballet dancers that came to give you lessons and tutorials and things like that. So I was very, very lucky and Dad took time off work and drove me there every day and picked me up again. Yeah, while I was there, we got to dance with just amazing choreographers and ballet teachers. One of them was Dame Alicia Markova and she was just incredible and I'd always been like a big eye contour, so I was glued, you know, I was more interested in what she was telling me than what I was actually doing at that point, but absolutely loved it. And while I was there, I was really, really fortunate in that I got spotted and somebody had said to me, "Look, you know, you're quite good at this." And I'd be really interested in sort of sponsoring you if you wanted to go for one of the major ballet schools. And at the time I thought, "Oh, I can't even think I'm that good." And she says, "Look, we'll get it all set up, we'll get you some auditions and we'll try." And I auditioned for one of the London ballet schools and was absolutely gobsmacked when I got plays and, you know, mum and dad up in Yorkshire, I had to move down to London. I moved down when I was almost 16, finished school while I was down there, so I did the school and the dance and stayed down there. And like I say, I was very lucky in that I had somebody who sponsored me to go extremely expensive to go, you know, things, dreams are built off, you know, you go down there and I thought, "Quai came, I've ever been a bit to do this, but I was so, so lucky." And that, like I say, I had wonderful, supportive people around me who helped me emotionally and financially. I was going to say, how was that because being 16, there's a lot of things going on. So many things going on. You know, there's... Yeah, I kind of lived in a YWCA on Great Portland Street and, you know, the house was full of all of these weird and wonderful, creative people now, you know, when I think back, I think, "Oquai, how did I dare do that?" You know, I'd never left Leeds and to move down, I was a member of Dad dropping me off in the car and he said to me, "Right, you're going to be alright on you?" And I got my little food parcel that my mother and dad had got for me and they left me there and I think, "I was alright for like the first couple of hours and then all of a sudden it sort of hit me." And I thought, "Oquai, I don't know anybody, I've moved on here, I've never been to London before, except for the audition." You know, it was a big thing coming out, I grew up quite quickly, well, I had to. I was going to say. You have to grow up really, really quickly when you're living alone in London, in a YWCA. Yeah, it sort of helped mold me, I suppose. And it was my first time when I think, you know, I kind of sat and I thought, "You can do this. You can do it. You've got to stop believing yourself. You can do this." And I think that was all this supremacy, it was something then that has really paved a way in the way that my life's been. And that's so different because you think how many times people are saying, "You can't do this." You know, that inner monologue, that's incredible at that age. Yeah, I think if you believe, believing in something, someone or more so yourself is probably the best thing that can happen to you. Where do you think that came from? Do you think that came from your parents? Yeah, I do. I do, absolutely. You know, it's just their believers, it was a, "Well, let's try." Well, do you mean no? Of course, we can, let's just give it a go. Those kind of things that would happen, you know, never pushy or anything like that. They were, like I said, uber supportive, so, you know, why don't you just try it and see? Are these horrible stories about pushy parents? Oh, yeah. And you, I witnessed that. Were you part of that world as in, like, you saw that world? Yeah, I never really understood it. You know, I always used to think, "Why are they doing this? You know, it's just, you've got to want to do it." I think you're always good at something that you're very, very passionate about. If you don't have that passion, you're lacking something, you're never going to excel at that. So I think, you know, I'm a huge believer in, however you live your life, if you're passionate about something, it's always going to be your favourite thing to do. So you went to London, like where did it go from there? So obviously, yeah, a few years in London and was doing really, really well, really enjoyed the ballet school, was performing at different theatres around London and stuff like that. So I got lots of experience, also had to do some nighttime jobs so that I could pay for the old ballet shoes. Oh, wow. And things like that. So again, that was quite interesting. All sorts of different jobs, I'm sort of working in Matt Donalds too, working in a shoe shop too. So I have one day off a week, I just used to go around sort of touting myself out as to find a job that paid me the most amount of money so that, you know, I could stay down there. You know, the scholarship money gave me so much. And I remember being down there and thinking, right, I need to go back, not see mom and dad a lot. That's, you know, really hardworking parents, mom and two, three jobs, that worked really, really long hours. So couldn't come down to come and see me, so I decided that I was going to go back and have a bit of a break and I always remember getting really, really, really excited about going back. It's the first time, you know, I'm not seeing mom and dad on my sister, brother for mom. So yeah, decided I was going to go back up there and actually as fate would have it that night, I got to King Cross and started going up the escalator towards the ticket office and all of a sudden there was just a great, huge, massive ball of fire. And what I later obviously understood was that I'd just literally put myself slap back into the middle of the King's Crossfire disaster and it was just awful, it was awful. So yeah, I had lots of hours of being stuck in the station. I was looking that I had a guard who could see I was struggling, I was only tiny. You know, like I said, I was probably about five and a half stone at the time, ballet dancing and, you know, dinky little thing and just didn't know what to do. I sort of froze. You never know how you're going to act, you know, when you find yourself in a situation that you're not expecting to be in, and obviously it was quite devastating. What had happened, lots of bad memories from it, you know, I can still see the fire and people and people going hurt and I got quite a lot of smoking elation from it and I'd also burnt my hair and there was all sorts of things that, you know, sort of happened afterwards. So I was just, um, crikey. That worked. I was really lucky in that, like I said, there was a guard, I was a member and I wish I could see him now because I could never thank him enough because he absolutely did save my life without a shadow of a doubt. He picked me up and threw me on a tube, literally, yeah. And, um, I remember I got this bag, I dropped my bag and of course, no time to go back for your bag and sort of sat there not knowing what to do and didn't have any money and just didn't know, you know, what I was going to do. And there was two chaps. They were both driving instructors from Yorkshire who saw me sat on the pavement and absolutely influenced tears and came over to check I was alright because obviously I looked like I'd been in fire and probably smelled like I'd been in fire and it said, you know, where do you live? What's wrong? And I explained what had happened and that was trying to get back to see my parents. And they said, look, we're going up to Leeds, so they bought me a train ticket and put me on the train and got me back, some Leeds where helped me make a phone call to ring my parents so that when I got back up to Leeds, Mum and Dad were waiting for me at a station. So yeah, it was a really, really big thing, a shock, an absolutely major shock. It was just awful. So I ended up having to go into hospital for a little bit after that and yeah, it was devastating and so many different levels of my family as well, you know, it was a big shock. I can't even imagine. Yeah, it really was, but then I'd missed because of the hospital and my confidence and being scared about moving back down and things like that, I kind of missed so much time at Bali School that I would have had to have gone back down and started again and carried on where I was, but I wasn't medically able to do it, you know, this sort of said to me afterwards, so I look, you know, I don't think that you're going to be able to do it. To do dancing for a living, you know, you might be able to teach a bit, but I don't think you'll ever be a performer and that just absolutely broke my heart. I was devastated. It was all I ever wanted to do. What was it that? So I think it was just a lot of smokin' the lessons. It was like the lungs. No. Oh my goodness. Because I just, there was all sorts of things that had happened that, you know, obviously mean, scared me and it was just, it was awful. So, yeah, at the time, it was like my whole world had been turned inside out back from because I kind of sat there and thought, oh, hold on a minute, this is what I was going to do and I'm not very good at anything else. And yeah, that's what I was going to do. And now I'm being told that it's probably better that I don't do that and I kind of hit this crossroads in my life, which I think everybody does, whether you realize you're at crossroads. I'd like to say that I wonder everybody at some point has probably felt like that. Maybe not on such an extreme level, but everybody will be able to see. It is. And these things are just sent to testers, aren't they? You know, I always think they're character building. You know, you've got to look on it. You can either wilt and fade and become a victim to that, or you can overcome that and think, right, I've now got an inner strength to overcome that and try something different. I think it's so easy for something as sad as that to happen that it can absorb you. I remember spending months after thinking, what am I going to do? You know, what do I actually like doing? I like selling things. I've always been chatty. And so that was fine. That was a possibility. You know, didn't mind working in the shoe shop or McDonald's and things like that, you know, talking to people. And I thought, the other love in my life was obviously teddy bears. And I decided then that I was going to probably try and go self-employed and start making things and go into this little local craft market and I used to go there with mom and dad, like I said, really creative family. So I would help mom there and then I kind of got mom and dad involved and then we started making little teddy bear pictures and then that went into start, you know, real love of bears where I thought, right, you know, I can't physically make loads of bears to sell because, you know, you just can't do that at the time consuming. So I thought, right, well, I'll start buying other brands of bears and I kind of became the teddy bear lady in Leeds then. We had one at Granary Wharf, which was underneath Leeds Railway Station. We have one at the White Rush shopping center and one on horse with Town Street. And it was just all things bear. It was called bear and me because I just thought it was a really nice little personal self. It's bear and me. It's just so sweet. And it was really, really lovely. And I would have said there were some of the happiest times, you know, being able to say one work with my parents, we've all got similar sort of mindsets. Wow, yeah. So yeah, I was very, very lucky to be able to do that. Looked bears, absolutely loved bears, you know, the way they looked, the way they felt, the fabrics were used, really, really, really intrigued by all of these different looks and styles. And they were just, I suppose it's going back to my whimsy world, as I call it. Can you remember like the first bear you were given or like, was that? I had a little panda. Little panda. And my sister had a parlour bear, and you know, it's funny, there's so many stories. I mean, it's not scientific, it could prove them, but you know, we are all animals and you in print. And I think you're always in print on your first toy, friends who all collected bears. And I always said to them, did you have a bear, an animal, when you look, I do an elephant, love elephants. I love pandas and it's, it's absolutely got something to do. I swear by it that it was my first bear, it was a little panda. And my sister loves parlour bears, like so her first bear is a parlour bear. So, you know, I think there is something in that. My sister was a Bambi, the Disney Bambi. And she's... Probably still loves Disney now. Yeah. I'm Bambi. Absolutely. That was the other thing. I just thought, you know, I was just, I remember getting my first little bear when I was little and just being completely and utterly mesmerised by it. It was my new little thing. There's lots of things that it's funny now, relatable now owning a bear company and listening to other collectors coming in and telling me about their experience and how bear helps them on their journey. And if you just sort of told me then what I know now, I'd become really, but I've lived it myself. So, you know, I know it was my guardian, my keeper of secrets, it was my constant companion. It was the one thing that was my constant and remains to this day, you know, something to do with bears, you know, and I think that's why I really, all the passion came for. Do you think because of that episode that you went, you know, that was so traumatic, I hope you don't mind me saying that, that took you back to something that you knew was safe. Yeah. That had your back through everything. Yeah. Absolutely. You know, I think without a shadow of a doubt, these things, I talk about serendipity a lot. You know, when we had our initial chat, I talked about happenstance. And things like that. And I think, you know, to a degree, you do create your own looking life, or you do, you choose the path that you're going to go on, but sometimes I do feel that there is probably a, another little force field around you somewhere that's guiding you in those directions. And it's whether you can recognize that or you have the strength or confidence to follow that path. So always go where your heart leads you, not where your mind tells you to go. And I think that's probably one of the things that has stuck with me and remain true. And I think I'm absolutely certain that all of the choices that I've made in life, I've said nine out of ten have been led by the heart and worked and put me in the place where I later realized I needed to be as opposed to my head, which was the logical reason of all you should really go and work in a bank or you should really go and, you know, try and get, get to Secretarial College or something. Yeah. So my word I'd have been so bored, you know, I'd have just been bored. That's something else that I really, really enjoy doing is trying to inspire kiddies that just telling them that you don't have to be really, really clever. You need to be passionate about something and you need to stick to your plumbing, you need to do what you're going to do. But there's always a little bit of help somewhere. If you're meant to go in that direction, it's going to happen. There's something about the innocence and that anything is possible. It's their imagination. It's completely crazy. Yeah. It's the best conversations with children I seriously do. If I ever need a little bit of inspiration for a new character for the bears or something that we're going to put into the portfolio for the following year, you know, something new I want in the collection. I just take myself upstairs into a teddy bear museum and I go and find myself children and ask them. And you know, the things that come out with, the drawings I get, the explanations behind it, the stories that they've dreamt up, you know, it is just- It is incredible. It is incredible. You had these three shops? We did indeed. Yeah. And loved every minute of it. And again, it's sort of crossroads, you know, things happen for a reason, don't they? And we've been doing it quite a while, Mum, Dad and myself and then sadly Mum was given the devastating news that she got cancer and obviously it's a family run business. We didn't really and couldn't really keep up with it because, you know, we can't run three shops and Mum wasn't one, Dad wasn't another, I wasn't another. So we kind of narrowed it down to one and then I eventually closed the bear shops, but it was something that really, really stuck with me because it was something that I absolutely loved. I mean, obviously my passion for bears never left and the other good thing was that just before we closed, I'd actually met my husband, Will, we met through bears. So again, this was- No way. This was another little magical thing. You know, I talk about serendipity. So yeah, I met Will, he came into one of my shops and bought bear for his mum, she wasn't very well at the time and he came into bear a bear and then the next day, but he came in again and bought another bear and I think really, knowing him as I know him now, and he admits it, he was just plucking up the courage to ask me out on a date and he felt that he had to come in and buy a bear because he chats a lot, but he's not very good at there. He's just really shy. Although he's got a huge personality. That is so sweet. He's so shy, you know, especially around me, he was really, really shy. That was nice and we kind of once we'd met and bought a bear and we'd gone out on the first date, that was kind of it, but you know, we've never left each other's side. And again, lucky because, you know, he's really supportive. I mean, who else do I do you go to and go, right, I've made it my mind, I'm fed up, I want to work with the bears again, I don't own my bear shops anymore, I'm working at all sorts of different jobs, you know, none of which I'm extremely happy with. I hate banking and I didn't want to work in the estate agents and I don't want to do agency work. I want to do this. We're going to have to sell everything we own and I want to start my own bear business. Most people would go, "Uh-huh, well, okay, darling, when do you want to do this?" And that was it. That's mad. Yeah, crazy. And again, lucky that I met somebody that could see that was passionate about it and, you know, sort of facilitated my dream, you know, that's the way I can play. He's my dream maker. Yeah. You know, he's the person that absolutely made all my dreams come true. I'm literally like, welling up here. This is a first. It's true, though, and it's nice and, you know, I've got so, you know, there's loads of people go, "Oh, look, Charlie, she's done so well. She's going to Tolly Bear's. I couldn't have done it without him." Absolutely not. Uh-uh. No. So you're like a power couple dream team. That's it. Yeah, he is. Yeah. He's definitely yin to my yang the way we met and the way that it happened among the bears, obviously. We couldn't really know much about bears other than he had a mum who collected bears, so he was aware of bear collecting and how addictive it is and things like that. And he used to always say to me, "Why this bear? Why that bear? Why is that cos so much? Well, I'm not sure about that one." And, you know, so he learned really, really quickly. X would be player. It's me turning around and going, "Right, we're starting our own bear business, well, guess what? We're not allowed to play rugby anymore because I need you to go and do V." He just brightens up a room. He does. You know when he's walked in. You know he's there. Yeah. Absolutely. You know he's larger than life. And he's just... That's it. He probably does light up the room. I don't think he can describe it any better, you know, when he's there. He's just full of fun. He's seen all the good things. He's always been a guy whose glass is half full, it's not half empty, you know, and that's great. You know, he's that kind of character. He brings everybody up. Once you've met him, you'll always remember him. Oh, with our without doubt. So you mentioned that you got back to this. You had this moment where you just went to him and just unleashed. That's it. I'm bored. I can't do this anymore. I'm feeling down. I'm not me. I said, "Can we please do this thing?" And he said, "What's that?" I said, "I'd really like to own my own bear company." You know, I'd add endless streams of people walking in and out of the shop doors, you know, and walk out, sometimes with nothing. You know, they walked into my, you know, I tried so hard to get them through the door to come into my little bear shop, to come and have a look and hopefully buy something. You know, it was my living. I needed them to buy something. And they would walk in and say, "Oh my God, I love this. I love this." And then you turn the price ticket over and go, "How much?" And that was always, always the reason why they didn't. You know, like I said, it was, I was buying so many different brands out there and the bears that people seem to be attracted to were the ones that were kind of highly sought after, collectible, but also with that kind of this hefty price tag. And I always used to say, there's a gap, there's a gap in the meat in the market, definitely. There's a gap in the market between what I call toy, teddy and collectible bear. So if we could get this affordable collectible bear at a very reasonable price, it would really help so many people in the world because bear collecting is addictive. So you know, if normally, if you walk into a bear shop back then and you had your favourite bear that charged you because that happens to bear to use you, cost £200. It really was a considered purchase. I mean, I'm going back what 30 odd years. It's a lot of money. Yeah. And I think, well, why can't I make that bear 30 quick? Because if I could do that, I could get the teddy bear industry back up and running and introduce it to more people. And I don't want it to go anywhere because it's such a lovely little industry. And we need to do something that's just going to enlighten everybody's passion about bear collecting again. I had to. And I could see everybody that used to walk in the shop. And you'd be surprised at how many people bear collect, male and female. What is it called again? You're an act of fire. Act of fire. That's it. That's a bear collector. Yeah. Oh, do you know what, and everybody without exception that I've met, that's a bear collector, is just the softest, kindest, warmest person. And actually, one of the ways to describe Will would be a big teddy bear, weren't they? Yeah. I call him line-hearted. Yeah. He's line-hearted, for sure. And he does love bears. I think he loves bears probably more now because he knows that I really, really love bears. And actually, I'm sat here next to one of Will's little favourites, that little green mouse that we created called Big Cheese. He named him because he said he's just like, he loved it. He's got this fat little tummy because he's eating too much cheese. And Will just loves it. So he even has a bear on his desk now. So you met Will. How long was it until you had this? Well, you know, it was funny, there's a couple of years. We got together obviously, got married, we closed the bear shops. And at the time, we'd moved to a little village up in Yorkshire, called Belden. And I'd gone out into the town and thought, right, I'm going to need to do something, you know, newlywed. We need to, you know, need some money coming in. So I went to go and work for an estate agent just in the village. And I was there for quite a while. And I remember going Christmas shopping, mum lights, bears too. So I said to her, come on, we'll go down to the teddy bear shop in Leeds. And I'll buy mum a bear and you can buy your mum a bear for Christmas. And we do that and we watch into this shop. And I walked town again, I said, I can't find anything that I like, but it's still the same thing. The ones that are really, really gorgeous, there's that great big, you know, and it was so obvious to both of us, you know, but especially me having been surrounded by bears all the time, that I just thought, you know, it was this huge gap. And we kept looking at each other going, we need to fill this gap, but how do we do it? How do we do it? So anyway, we then started, I was working at the estate agents. Obviously, we were always full time as well, both really working five, six day weeks. And so we don't have an awful lot of time, but we're going to start researching. So it was about another 18 months after that that we said, right, we're ready. What we're going to do? I said, right, we need to find out first of all where we can make the bears. We need to come up with all the different designs and what kind of looks we want. But, you know, I'm not a famous artist, I need to try and find somebody who has, you know, awards in the industry to help us create these and do it. That's where it all kind of a bart, we literally saved up and traveled around and went to different trade shows, different countries flew out to America, which is where I met Isabel, who now works for obviously Charlie Bears. And it was just the most amazing time because I found a factory that absolutely knew what I was talking about and what I wanted to create. And again, really supportive, we were like two peas in a pod. It was complete happenstance that we met and yeah, we just started working together and never looked back. It was just, we both thought the same. She knew what my goal was, I knew what her goal was and we kind of sat there and I thought, wow, I've got this most amazing inspirational woman who is heading up, you know, head of design in a factory that completely gets what I'm trying to do. Why wouldn't I buddy up with her and why wouldn't we do this? And we both again said, well, let's try it. What was the worst that could happen? She needed help, she wanted to build a factory up, she wanted to do all of this and I thought, right, well, I can help you like that and you can help me like this. And it was just like a much-made in heaven. And we started and to this day we're still together and she still makes all of the bears now and it is just, I can't even begin to tell you how somebody up there put us together. See, and one thing you hit on, which has come up in a previous episode and I believe is an outstanding business attitude to have is not saying we can do better, it's saying that we can do it different. Yeah, absolutely. I don't think there is a better, I think everybody and anybody can read a book, watch a movie, stare at a painting or whatever and all see it in a very different way. It's very subjective. You love the Golden Compass book. I love Lewis Carroll book. I don't, it doesn't mean that I don't like the Golden Compass. Yeah, of course. I see it and I understand it, but my heart delights somewhere else for this. It resonates in a different way, yeah, absolutely. Like I say, the way you finish your home, the colours you wear, the clothes you choose, the sneakers you buy, you know, there's all these different things. So yeah, to actually find somebody that was on the same wavelength and didn't, it was never about the money, it was about creating a legacy and I think that was the thing. The stress element of it had been taken away because I never set out to make loads and loads and loads of money. And I set out to try and bring something new into the world that people loved. And like I said, I wanted to encourage the next generation of bear collectors. I wanted to create this legacy where people would at some point, Taran ago, well, she was a funny old bean, but she definitely knew about a bear's, you know, I can just, it was that. So it was about making sure that there was something that was going to follow on long after I've gone. That's what I wanted. I wanted to make sure that there's something out there that my nieces or my nieces kids or their grandkids can Taran ago, oh, did Charlie do that on the whole world with that? You've done that tenfold. No, it's just, that was the thing. That was the thing. And the kids of all was the same. So that's what it was about. When you start taking the stress out of it, having to do this, of course it's a business. You need to make, you have to have money to run it, you have to do it, this is where he runs in. He just manages all the purse strings and he was like, right, we can't do that, Charlie, because you'd be selling it for less than what we've paid for it. So he was like, right, come on, I'll do this side of it for you. So obviously we started off, met Isabelle, started this collaboration. This is in America, sorry. She was, I met her at an American trade show, but she's actually a Korean bear artist and she lives in Thailand. So I went to Thailand visited the factory, tried to have the more manufactured in England, but it just wasn't the same, couldn't meet anybody, marry a relationship with anybody that really had that same passion that I had all the skill sets do it, because you know, I'm very particular, very panicky person, little details, doesn't matter whether I'm reading or looking. So how many people, like, just sort of a ballpark, how many people do you think you met before you found the one? It's too many to count. Really? You know, you would sit there and I think, oh yeah, there might be, there might be good that, no. Oh, that looks promising. There's always something. There's always something. Yeah. And I tried so hard to try and get everything manufactured in UK, I wanted to be a UK brand, I wanted to, you know, all your things that you aspire to be when you start up, it would be so nice. We could do this. We could do this. And I tried so many different places and I just couldn't, I couldn't get that look that I wanted. It was in my head and it was fixed and I knew I was so fierce about the look that I wanted and what I wanted to create and I wanted an affordable collectible and it had to be the best quality and we had to use the finest fabrics we could and, you know, it was having our look, the look of it being something different, you know, again, it's like art in soft sculpture. So the same with an artist, you know, you can tell the difference between different artists just by looking at their paintings and going, oh yeah, that's a Métis. Oh, that's definitely a Monet, you know, and you can look at all these things and recognise it. It's the same with anything that you create, it's got a look and I knew what kind of look I wanted. I call it my homey look. So, you know, we always add little eye whites into the eyes. So every single little Charlie Bear has got its own little personality, they're all handmade. We've got this really lovely feel around it, but you need people who are extremely skilled in that industry to be able to create that kind of look and Isabel had it in bag fulls and understood what it was that I wanted. So it was really, really easy for us to sit there and sort of design stuff and go, oh, wouldn't that look cool if we did it out in blue and, oh, we need to add this bit and there is need to be slightly higher in the head or, you know, we say, if we just pull the eyes in a little bit more, it's going to make it look really sullen and, you know, sad and, you know, we tried so many different things and we just, we just clicked, we were like a piece of Lego. Because one of my questions was, it was always going to be, did you try having it manufactured in the UK? Yes. But I don't think you could answer that question any better. There was no help either, you know, we tried out every kind of government scheme, every kind of course that you can go on, every department that I could find, you know, to help us do it, you know, we're a startup company. I want to be able to do this, you know, we need to be helped as much as you can, especially when you are starting up and let's be right, you know, we didn't train to do this. This was just something that I was completely led by my heart and thought, the head will follow, I'll find a way, you know, it's nothing's impossible and, you know, we need to make sure that everything's created and manufactured properly and it's done in the right kind of way and everything's got to work, every little bit of jigsaw has got to click together. So I've got to be in the right order for it to come true. And it's amazing because you are so lovely, but I can 100% see this ruthless woman and you have not. Can we swap ruthless with determined? Determined. We can swap it with whatever you like, there is a side to you that I would not like to be on the wrong side. I'm a Gemini. You're a Gemini. You're sensing it. Yeah. Definitely two sides of the coin. When you were at that stage, what is the industry like? Because it's not something that I would ever have been exposed to. Yeah. It was strange, I think, because I worked in the bear shops, obviously I used to visit the trade shows and go by four of the shops, so I did come across what turned out to be a lot of my competitors later on in life. And again, you know, I sat there and I thought, right, so I visited the trade shows, I've been around, I've bought from all of these various different companies, and lovely to deal with. But I always had lots of little things, I know you refer to them as X, I, one of my X's when things are packed badly, can't stand out, it drives me insane. You know, I just, you know, the little bags turned up sideboards or it's, it was stuck like that. You know, it should be carefully placed and brushed up all the little things that used to irritate me about anything from ordering through to paying the invoice through to getting delivery of the bears, through to the customer service at the end of it. Every company had different levels of what they did, and I think you expect you have your own standards, don't you? And I thought, right, everything that they do wrong in my eyes, only in my eyes, I mean, I'm going to put right. So it kind of set me upon this, I set myself this sort of what I called a gold standard. The one thing I did notice at the time, it was very male dominated and it wasn't left towards, I started looking up when I was trying to find out how to stop my own bear company. I was sort of going around in every sort of factory I was looking at or other bear company, I'd seen them, where do you get your bears made? Who does this, who's the CEO of the company, who's little men? And I just like, isn't this weird? Yeah. It's true. Why? Oh yeah, why? Why? You get individual bear artists, they have their own little way of working and you will go to bear fairs on lots of, but like I said, bear artists are female, do you get male ones too? And you know, the skill set of these people is just astronomical, but never kind of got from that level up into trying to open up a big company and do that. It was strange. I could never, never understand it. I always remember, you know, being sort of surrounded by is later a trade show myself where I was, I hate to say the word bullied, I wasn't bullied. I think I was, I was placed at a certain level, you know? Right, okay. And it was like, listen, I think you're what it's brilliant, but when it fails, you can come and have a job with me, you know, comments like that and I used to think. So they were, I was going to ask, was it like chauvinistic? I think it can be. It could be. And I think, but I suppose it's like anything, any, you know, in business, you know, if you're bloody good at business, it doesn't matter whether you're male or female. I was a little bit shocked by that. And I suppose that's where the determined Charlie comes out. And it was really quite funny. I think after a few years, they've seen me at the trade stand and sort of walking past and looking at me, all of a sudden it became a nod. And then it became a respect thing. And then it became, and I used to say things like they walked past and I go, hi, and they go, oh, hello. And I'm still here. And that was all I needed to ever say. I'm still here. I love a good stick at it to a story. Do you know what I mean? Like really sort of stick it to them stories over the years. Yeah. And it's just, it's surprising, isn't it, that we've talking about this in this day and age, you know, it's just, you know, it just happened, you know, it just wasn't that long ago. Was it? No. Absolutely not. No, it's 20 years ago. Yeah. It has nothing in the whole scheme of things. No, absolutely. Absolutely not. You know, but I think it's always been. What was the next step then? So the next step was right. So we've got a product we like, we've got our first collection, there was 12 bears. And at the time I was extremely proud of that, 12 bears, and we started the business. So we sold the house to solve cars, moved into rented accommodation. I had a dressing table and a dodgy old laptop and 12 bears, I said, well, right, that's it. I'm starting. That's it. I'm going to start work. Okay. That's fine. We sat there. We literally had paid rent for a year from, I've managed to go in and negotiate 10 months for the 12th. So that was fine. He was proud of me for that. Yeah. My first, my first business negotiation. And, um, I found a place that was like big enough for us. And then he just said to me, right, well, this sit now. You've got a year. Right. Where do I start? So I literally just sat on the phone and around every single store I could think of that might possibly be worn by a bear, managed to get some retailers on board, started quite slowly, did a couple of trade shows, uh, had a little run down beat, pulled mini and an Ikea shelf. I was fine. I was set to go. That's what I was doing. And there was no airs and graces. You know, we went in bed all, so to speak, pardon the punk. You know, there was, there was no fancy lighting or, you know, props on the stand or anything like that. It's completely boring. But it's all we could afford at the time. And that was it, you know, bare basics and that's how I still refer to it, bare basics. I let the product doing the talking, not how it was. I presented it in the very best way that I could with what money we had. And that was it. And anyway, one day I thought, do you know what? I was watching QVC and saw a bear brand on there and I thought, oh, it could go on QVC. I thought, mm. And that'd be interesting. So I thought, I'll place a phone call. I remember ringing the first time and they said to me, oh, you need the name of the buyer. And I said, look, they're just wrong. Just for me and I've absolutely forgotten who it was. It was a lady. She was lovely. And I'll pop you through. I still to this day can't believe they put me through. But anyway, that was great. And I remember speaking to the buyer at the time and I said to look on a you do bears, but you don't do bears like our bears. I said, I really, really, really, really want to come down and meet with you. I said, it'd be really good. My husband's fabulous and he'd be really happy to present all the shows. I thought, oh, he'll do it. I'll speak to him later. I'll bribe him. It means that we can get on TV. That'd be great. And she said, oh, you know, we don't really know. I said, look, I promise I will never darken your door again. I said, but just meet me. Just give me five minutes of your time and we will come down and introduce you to the bears. So I was a member of a green to it. It was the following week. And this was like a really big major turning point for us because I remember all coming home and I said, can you take some holiday next week? I need you to get on. And he was like, what for? I said, I'll tell you when we get there. And he gets into what is this, what is this? And then I eventually fasted up and said, right, I've just run QVC, the shopping channel and we've got a meeting with them and depending on how this is going to go, you know, we might be able to go on the TV and do they get, oh, it's not going to happen. Listen, let's give it a go. So anyway, we did we'll come with me, we went, we showed them the bears, they absolutely fall in love with them. Can't believe how fabulous they were and offered us a one-hour slot on a show in September. At this point, it was August and I'm thinking, oh, gosh, I said to her right, you can update some time off work. We've got our air day off the show, really, really, really did not know what track it's about. I remember sitting there about 10 minutes before the show thinking, I'm going to throw up. I did to be on the TV. You will was all right, because he's so confident, but I'm just like, oh, I always thought I designed this really lovely iconic logo so that I could hide behind it. It was all about the bears, it was never about me, it was about the bears. And here I am, sat in the London studio thinking, oh my God, we'll go live to God knows how many million people in 10 minutes. I'm so scared. I remember them counting down from five to one and we were off, I just felt like somebody just stuck a sponge in my mouth, I can't speak, I kept looking at Will and Will was doing all the talking for me. That was a bear expert and Will was doing all the talking, because I couldn't talk. And then after about 10 minutes into the hour, I thought, right, no, I've got to justify being sat here, determined Charlie come out again. And then we started talking and about 45, 50 minutes into the show, we started realizing that things were selling out and we were a little crikey, ooh, and we got to the end of the hour and we had a complete sellout show. And as soon as we finished, they were like, right, when can you come back? And I was like, oh, I haven't got any more bears in a minute, but because I sold everything. These were the last of the bears that we had. So yeah, and that was kind of like the rest was history with that really. That was the turning point. We created more collections, more bears, and you know, just started going from strength to strengths. Just from you being a bit ballsy, to be perfectly honest, didn't it? Not taking no for an answer. No, and I say that word doesn't exist. So yeah. There's a saying that I think Stephen Bartlett, the diary of a CEO podcast host, said that you're always only one email away from making your dream, because that's how close it is now. And all it takes is just imagine it for those people. It's like, well, I was used to say this to me whenever I sort of had a bit of a quaverous and just imagine how many people are in the graveyard that they've just been brave enough to paint that picture or write that book. How many people are there? They said, what have you got to lose? And what makes you different is that you are the 1% that did it, not the 99% that thought about doing it. Life's too short, you know, if you don't follow your heart, we're only all here once, it's not a dress rehearsal. Yeah, no matter what life throws at you, if you have that dogged determination to do something, and like I said, you're passionate about it, you're always going to succeed. Do you ever have a day off? From what? My hobby. Why would I? Most in the world. My bears. No, I am now bear constant companion. Do you still have anything from the first? Well, I have a whole gallery, so at work, obviously, we've, fast-forwarding quite a few years. QVC went really, really well. We got loads more stockis on board. We were starting to now peak interest outside of Britain, so we started getting European stockis, Australian stockis, American stockis, and I thought, you know what, I've got all of these bear designs. You know, my portfolio is growing, kept one of every single bear, snappy boxes, I call them PO bear boxes, we're getting bigger and bigger and bigger, you know, I was actually needing room now for bears that had retired, and I thought, well, I can't sell these, can't make these anymore, they're older now, what do I do? So I had bought a warehouse down here in Cornwall, and we said, right, well, I'm just going to have one whole warehouse that's full of my archives, so to speak, bears that no longer exist once they're retired, that's it, they've gone, they're collectible. We don't must produce, I can't go back and do that bear again, because we don't do that. This is exactly what we're going to do, and I remember saying to Phil, what do I do now? We've got like 350 boxes, and I've run out of warehouse space, and it's what we're going to do with this, so we ended up building a bit of leg onto the building, onto the industrial unit that we've got. And I said, oh, I'm going to have a bear design room, I'm going to pull my bears out, I can just surround myself with it, it's going to be really inspirational, it's going to help me with future designs, and I thought, oh, I'm going to be a bit selfish, I need to look, nope, so loads of people can come, there's no little mini tourist attraction around here, hardly any Teddy Bear museums, so why don't we start a Charlie Bear one? So that was another new venture, that absolutely pulled my heart and soul into that, and made it kind of look like it is today, it's a bit like a Doctor Who TARDIS, it's kind of that police box on the outside, so it just looks like a regular old industrial unit, yes, we've stuck some little bits of bear, things paraphernalia outside, but you would never know from looking outside what was inside. But as soon as you walk through those doors, it begins, and that's where the journey starts. Yeah, that's exactly it, and the lovely lady who greets you, she was buzzing and full of energy. They all are, honestly, the whole stuff, we're so lovely. And it just keeps going and going and going. They are, everybody though, of course, we don't have staff members, we call them bear cubs, they're all bears, all coddled trained, they all know all about the bears, every single one, what they're named, what they're called, how many we've made, you know, every single little minute detail, you might want to know about a particular character, they've gendered upon, they know all about it, so of course a museum helps, a gallery helps, and so there is, yeah, every single bank we've ever made today in that gallery. So there were my bears, you know, that's the way that it kind of works, and it's nice, I don't have a few at home, but I don't have them all at home, I started off with them all at home, and then they had to go into boxes, because I just look like a crazy cat baby, and I thought, do you know what, I've got to do something different here. Bit of smelling. So, yeah, that's it. Now I'm just going to, I've got to put them away because I needed the sofa, I need to sell them the sofa. That was that. So yeah, it was kind of like, it's funny, isn't it how kind of the world goes, where we started on QVC, started getting all of these stockis, started going abroad, we got distributed to some board, and before we knew it, we were in 40 different countries, all of these different stockis, we have warehouses now out in Australia, and also out in America, so we've got sort of three versions of what we've got here, situated, so that, you know, we were then going for world domination, basically, that's it. We wanted to introduce everybody to our magical world of Charlie Bres, and, you know, there's so many different collectors out there who all like different bears, and all look for different things in different bears, and my promise has always been, and remains to this day, that I absolutely know what different collectors like in bears and what they want, and I've sort of made an oath that I'm going to create a bear for every kind of collector that's out there, and my job won't be finished until I've done that, so that was sort of the first, what, 10 years, that's what we were doing, and then unfortunately I hit another crossroads again, where health again, completely like a ball out of the blue, went to the doctor's one day, wasn't feeling very clever, she gave me some antibiotics and I sort of came home, still wasn't feeling very clever, went back to the doctor and said, look, I really don't feel well the antibiotics, it's not working, I'm feeling terrible, don't know why, I'm normally like a little dynamo, don't take me for an answer, stay up all night, yes I've probably got a bit of insomnia because I can't leave the bears alone, but there's something wrong, and she said, honestly, we'll do some blood tests, find out, so I always remember that was on the Wednesday, on the Friday I got a phone call saying I needed to go down to the hospital straight away, unfortunately I think you've got ovarian cancer, and it literally came like a ball out of the blue and from not feeling well, to actually having to start chemo, biopsies, operations, moquimo, it just went like my whole world again, it's like a rollercoaster journey, do you know what I mean, you hit the lowest that you're ever going to hit, and you start going up the, you know, you're fine, you obviously have a king's cos fire, lost their career as a ballet dancer, started the bear's mat, we'll carry it, old feelings, still come back, in a sense, it knocks you confidence again because all of a sudden you feel out of control, how many beatings can I take, yeah, this is it, and you sit there and you just cry kick, okay, so like I say, it's year 10, we've just sort of done, finished signing events, we do signing tours now where we go around and travel and meet collectors and sign bears, and these are all things I love doing, you know, who wouldn't love travelling around the world meeting people that are just like you, you know, it was great, and like I said, I'm chatty, so I love learning about people and finding about their stories and their journeys and their adventures, and sort of, you know, it's really inspiring as a teddy artist now to look at different people and find different things out about people and you are, you can't help, but absorb all of that and try to get a character that you feel might be relevant for them, so of course that was great, just had the most fabulous time, and then was hit with that, and it just threw me completely, but then I thought, right, I can't let this throw me because we've got business now and I've also got a lot of responsibility, I mean, one who's going to have to will, to will can't design a bear to save his life, and I need to make sure that he's safe, and I've got to now the ultimate goal was staying around long enough to make sure that I could get everything put in place to the worst thing happened, and that was probably the one thing that kept me going was that I had to do this to make sure he was protected, but the other thing that kept me going was the bears, and it sounds like you're a keeper of secrets, then you every bad night I couldn't sleep, I talked to them and told them how I was feeling after treatment, I was with all of them, so I didn't have to give it all to well, I definitely didn't need the services of McMillan, because I had the bears, I was saying to save it, I'm fine already, I promise you, I was like, I'm going to get through this because they're there, they're my guardians, they're going to help me. How was Will through that? So supportive, he was so supportive, I couldn't, I just, he was my strength at that point, and although I was probably walking around, in a bit of the days, it was totally mind over matter, you know, you feel well, I never used the C word, I didn't like it, and everybody, I kind of knew how constant a lot of people didn't make it, and it was quite a scary word, and I thought you know what, I'm going to use the C word, but I'm going to say I've got cold, so I've got a really bad cold, and I just can't shake it, I'm just going to need a little bit more love and attention and care, and I'm going to do this, but I thought, do you know what, it can't happen, this has got to, we haven't done all this, for no reason, you know, we've got to go through this, and um... Because the reason I asked that is because although it's, you're the one with a cold, for somebody who has dedicated most of their life to protecting you, and you know... - He kept that cloak around me, sure. - It must have been so tough for you both. - The one thing I did notice, it was really funny because everybody always, always, always, always used to ask how I was, and I get it, because of course I'm the one that's got the cancer, but actually nobody ever asked how Will was, and I was actually quite shocked by that, because he was not only having to watch his wife lose weight, and go through all the treatment, and have ops, and you know, he's a really horrible, horrible thing, was he a very incandescent, I suppose unfortunate, unfortunate, in that it was at stage three when we found it, one in five survive, the odds were well and truly against me, but I never let that creep in, and I think it was, like I said, I was more trying to concentrate on making sure that he was okay, because I knew what he was sacrificing for me, and I could see the pain in his face when he found out I could see he was there every single step of the way, having to watch me go through that, lose all my hair, lose weight, I was unrecognizable for a long time, you know, and you feel it, but he never made me feel like that, and I think this is the thing where I talk about, you know, being supported, he never once, even when I lost all my hair, I was worried about what he would think, and he cut me exactly the same as if I slayed my long hair, I slayed my eyelashes, I still had my eyebrows, I'd not lost the fourth stone, you know, he was, he looked at me and tripped me and spoke to me exactly the same, if I feel, you can hear him, but probably the tone in my voice change, he kept true to what he knew I needed at that point in time. What a gentleman. I'm sat there and I'm thinking right, I can't let this happen, I can't, you know, I can't do that, so yeah, we got busy at that time and said right, I'd designed like five years in advance, I was literally like, I was trying to well and truly protect him, where I had lots of ideas, lots of doodles, lots of briefs, loads of, you know, everybody was geared up, obviously I couldn't hide it, I tried to hide the fact that I was ill, just kind of came off doing QVC, locked myself at home a little bit, found excuses for not going to meetings, joining, you know, yeah, FaceTime meetings then, or, you know, doing things like Skype calls, it was them, wasn't it? I'm like, oh, just every excuse into the sunset, we could hide it until there was a time where we couldn't hide it, and I had to kind of pass up and talk to people about it, and at the time I thought, right, again, there's two ways of dealing with this, do you sit there and become victim to it, and apologise profusely for having one of the hardest, things that lives in this planet, or do you sit there and do you think, do you know what, I'm not going to apologise, it's not a weakness, it's a strength, you know, yes, I'm scarred, yes, I've lost my hair, yes, I've oscillated away, yes, I'm half the woman, I used to be literally physically, but, you know, I'm still me, I still got a life, I still got my husband, I still got my work, I've got so many things to be grateful for, supportive family, wonderful husband, great team, you know, around me at work, I've got to just man up, I've got my big girl pants on, and I've just got a guy out there and deal with it, so I stopped to apologise, it didn't, you know, the two long stay off QVC, and I thought, no, you're all going to know what's wrong with me because, you know, if you want me on screen, you know, where's Charlie, oh my god, how do I get around this, they don't want to see me like this, and then I thought, do you know what, no, I need to just educate people about this because there are so many women that didn't know about ovarian cancer, weren't sure of the symptoms, it's like one of the worst cancers you can get because you don't have lumps and bumps and things like that, you know, so I thought, do you know what, I've got a duty now to go out and make sure that as many people know about ovarian cancer symptoms and things like that, and that it's beable, you can do this. It's such a unique mindset, you're always thinking about other people, you know. Yeah, I don't know, some people say that's a weakness, I don't, I genuinely care about people. So how long ago was this? It was 10 years ago, oh wow, I've just had clear and everything's fine, and hopefully, I'm touching, 100%. Yeah, I'm touching, well because of course, you know, it can come back, I'll come back in the form. So it's taken 10 years to get... Is it called remission? Yeah, you have to be in remission for so long before you do it, normally, you have markers where you're five years, 10 years, but I now, I've stopped having the blood test now to check tumor markers and things like that, and it's been really, really quite enlightening, and there's still lots of books I need to read, and there's still lots of things I need to do, and there's still lots of bears I need to design, so I'm going nowhere yet. We're just about to celebrate our 20th anniversary next year. That's incredible. It's really, really, really good, and it's when we always hit these milestone years that things happen. So what's coming up in this next adventure? Loads of new characters, it used to just be bears, and then we started introducing more characters like pandas, and dogs, and puppies, and kittens, and elephants, and monkeys, and all sorts of things, and I've just started this new, hopefully it's going to go viral, called "Monstrology". So we do lots of things that are folklored, fable, myths, legends, I'm just sort of, you know, homing in on the J.K. Rowling. I loved the fable when I was young, loved the fable. Just love it, so you know, we're really doing lots of things where we're making horror and little creatures, our own little characters. I think I continue to live my life in whimsy. I'm still walking around in my own little whimsical world, which is my favourite place to be, surrounding myself with objects and people that make me feel like that daily, so that it carries on inspiring and carries on doing stuff, and yeah, we're still expanding, we've got new projects, we're working, we've got lots of exciting things happening next year that I'm really, really giddy about. I'm hoping it's going to be my perfect fairytale year. I am so excited, you know, you just have such a positive aura, such a lovely air about you. That's really kind, but I truly love doing what I love, and until I hit my next crossroads, or until I'm dealt my next set of cards, I'm going to enjoy it. I really do feel privileged to have been able to sit opposite you. I can't thank you enough, because I know this is the first for you, and I actually feel really humbled and quite honoured that you've chosen me. Thank you for helping me tell my story. So there we have it everyone, what an amazing episode, what a truly inspiring story. Thank you so much, Charlie, again for this once in a lifetime opportunity. I cannot thank you enough. If you are new to this podcast, you can listen to more stories on all of my socials, on Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, or whatever form you are listening to this on now, there is more, and there is plenty more to come. So thank you so much for listening. Cheers! [Music]
