Rabbi Joey Soffer Shiurim
Bava Batra daf 82
Okay, the court is on, to say, September 15, 2024. (speaking in foreign language) Here we go. (speaking in foreign language) The Mishnah said that if the trees started to grow, the branches are growing now, you're not allowed to trim them. We talk about a scenario where the guy sold two trees in his field, and the Mahokan Mishnah, if you get land in between the trees, they'll not be turning between the ears and the chamel, because the chamel says no. The Mishnah says yes. The Mahokan Mishnah, if you get the land in between the trees, when you bought two trees. Okay, so the Mishnah said like this. If you bought trees and you've only bought the land, you didn't get the land, so you're not allowed to trim the trees, meaning the owner of the land. I sold two trees, I didn't give them any land. I didn't give any land. I'm not allowed to trim the branches. Even though the land underneath is mine, even though the land underneath is mine, I'm not allowed to trim the branches and the branches are detrimental. They're causing shade, I have things I want to grow, and the trees are tough luck on you. Okay, well, I own the land, he owns the tree, and I'm not allowed to cut history with that permission, obviously. If he gives me permission, it's a different story, but I can't just trim it. That's what the Mishnah said. When I said this, I said also that all the shoots that grow off this trunk, right, if they grow off the trunk, they belong to the buyer of the tree. If they grow from the roots and come through the ground, they belong to the seller of the tree. That's what the Mishnah said. I'm going to be honest. When I said no, tell me, define for me what's called from the roots and what's called from the trunk. I'm going to be your hanan. If you're not a hanan, you're going to be a hanan. If you're not a hanan, you're going to be a hanan. If you're not a hanan, you're going to be a hanan. If you're not a hanan, you're going to be a hanan. If you're not a hanan, you're going to be a hanan. If you're not a hanan, you're going to be a hanan. If you're not a hanan, you're going to be a hanan. If you're not a hanan, you're going to be a hanan. If you're not a hanan, you're going to be a hanan. If you're not a hanan, you're going to be a hanan. If you're not a hanan, you're going to be a hanan. If you're not a hanan, you're going to be a hanan. If you're not a hanan, you're going to be a hanan. If you're not a hanan, you're going to be a hanan. If you're not a hanan, you're going to be a hanan. If you're not a hanan, you're going to be a hanan. If you're not a hanan, you're going to be a hanan. If you're not a hanan, you're going to be a hanan. If you're not a hanan, you're going to be a hanan. If you're not a hanan, you're going to be a hanan. If you're not a hanan, you're going to be a hanan. If you're not a hanan, you're going to be a hanan. If you're not a hanan, you're going to be a hanan. If you're not a hanan, you're going to be a hanan. If you're not a hanan, you're going to be a hanan. If you're not a hanan, you're going to be a hanan. If you're not a hanan, you're going to be a hanan. If you're not a hanan, you're going to be a hanan. If you're not a hanan, you're going to be a hanan. If you're not a hanan, you're going to be a hanan. If you're not a hanan, you're going to be a hanan. If you're not a hanan, you're going to be a hanan. You can't leave it there, because you're right. We're concerned that potentially it's going to look like the guy got three trees and now the sun is going to lose the land in between. So he has the rights to the shoots, but we have to cut them off. Who? The buyer cuts them off. And if he doesn't cut them, I'll cut them and give it to him. The potential loss for me, I can't do that. I'm a hananan. I'm a hananan. I'm a hananan. We have a tradition that the palm tree does not have the law of gheza, which is the trunk, meaning the shoots of the trunk. It doesn't have this law of shoots of the trunk. That's what he says. It's a palm tree. The palm tree is a palm tree. The palm tree is a palm tree. The palm tree is a palm tree. The palm tree is a palm tree. The palm tree is a palm tree. The palm tree is a palm tree. The palm tree is a palm tree. The palm tree is a palm tree. Remember, we learned back two days ago that the palm tree doesn't grow shoots. Therefore, we said that the person who owns the tree, if you just bought the tree without the land, he has to uproot the tree at the end of the tree dies whenever he takes the tree off. Later, you don't get the right to replant it. When you heard this law, when you heard this law, that the palm tree has no shoots of the trunk, he thought that meant because the owner of the tree is in the back of his mind forgiving all these shoots because he knows at the end of the day it's the uproot and tear it up for the ground. There's more guys in Brooklyn than to deal. I didn't want to deal with that in Brooklyn. Look at this. He says, "Can't let this one for you. Come on." Oh, another one. It's OK. It's OK. It's OK. He says, "Give me this one. I don't need it." I don't need it. It's fine. It's OK. Let's go. Come. Put your book down. All right. No, no, no. Don't worry about it. Say that. OK. Wow. Look at this. Shh. I really need to move the deal. I'm going to have a minute. I'm going to say it's easy. Forget it. Unbelievable. You should have asked me more. Yeah. It's cool to be there. This is the southern point. OK. So he says like this. Again. OK, we'll start this piece. We just started anyway. It's perfect. When I was a vid, heard that I've nachman say, right? That we have a tradition that any decal tree doesn't have the law of gheza of trunks. Doesn't have the law of trunks. Be bit. Be bit. I'm going to live about halfway down the page. OK? So he heard him say this. Savar. He thought, let me marve to say, right? Enlo gheza, le baal decal. The owner of the tree, who bought the tree from somebody else, doesn't get the shoots if it was a palm tree. Why? D'heva and de le mecha parve le charechech chai. Since at the end of the day, he only owns a tree and no land. He knows at the end of the day he needs to uproot this thing and throw it out. He's going to take it off the land, use it for firewood or whatever he's going to do. Because he doesn't own the land on anything. When it dies, it's over. And therefore, asu haim masah date, he's giving up on those shoots. That's what the vid thought. That I've not meant. He's indicative of a day tree. The ones that don't? Yes. Well, it would be any tree that we don't own the land, technically. They're not going to. Okay. So it's abnormal for palm tree to give shoots. That's why he's like double, double negative on me. Anyway, okay. M'ath kif la raf papa, challenge t'raf zavids svarah. He says, "Time out. V'ha kornesh ne il anot. De le mecha parve le m'chareche chai me." When you bought two trees, right, according to the tana, cannot come out of the mission. Now you don't get the land. Which means, what's going to happen when those trees die? You have to rip them up. Right? Same thing. It's like the escho gheza. But the Mishnah says he does get the shoots that come off the tree. So why would the guy for the decal give up on the shoots? It doesn't make any sense. Ella, you're right. I'm out of papa. Enlo gheza libal decal. Why? Le fishe en mozzie gheza. Right. It's scientific. It's not halochic. Right. Yeah. The palm tree doesn't give shoots. That's it. That's it. That's it. Fine. So myself, time out. But Ula raf zavid. Svarah is against the Mishnah. He has a contradiction with the Mishnah. He thought the guy's messiah, daat, because you're going to give up on it because you got up to the tree. He didn't read the Mishnah. I mean, what's his Svarah? We didn't even go there. If you read the Mishnah, you shouldn't be thinking that way. So he says, no. He was thinking, dav zavid, kashe matid. You know, desaving the jamesh shimim. dav zavid understands the scenario where I sold the trees for five years only in the Mishnah. What is that? Sort of a rental. And technically, look at that shimim. Look at that shim. What that means to us. Exactly. What's the havin. Exactly. What's the havin. Exactly. So look at that shim. He's teaching us something interesting. Desaving the havin shimim on the bottom. He says, sha'af imiyamut yita ahair ben komo. In a scenario when I lease the tree for five years, I get five years. And if the tree dies, I get to put a new one. Which one? I have a five-year lease. Five years. So now that's what he's talking about. He says, like this, "The hill kakh kevad imi sha'ab dalai ar alizman katsu." That's what type of tree. Doesn't matter. Anything. Since now you subjugated your land to me for five years by selling me this tree for that I meant the period. Right? Loma sa'dat imi nagheza. I didn't forgive her or forget about or relinquish rights over any sprouts from the trunk. What happens to sprouts? I know that when this tree dies, I lost all rights to the tree. I know that. So when I did that, that's the case where I'm not getting any shoots whatsoever. But if I bought it for five years, I didn't forgive up anything. I know that actually owned the land underneath this tree for five years. And any sprouts that come out of there are mine now. And therefore not my sa'dat. So what happens to me, there's not contradicting the Mishnah at all. He was thinking about a case, about a five year lease situation. All right? That's all enough for fun. Good. Good. Done. Okay. The chama. Back to the Mishnah. The chama. The chama. The chama. The chama. The chama. The chama. Yes. You get the land now. Now you get the land. That's why, because you get the land. Because it's three, you get the land in between. How much land do I get? The actual ground under the tree itself. And all the land in between these three trees. Right? And outside the trees, we'll see, the size of the basket of the person carrying the basket. Right? And the orev is the guy who's harvesting. Orev is the word we use to harvest figs. So he's the harvester. Plus a basket. I watch much. I need outside the branches because everything under the tree, spot of the tree, right? Everything between the trees is between the three trees and beyond the branches of the trees, the amount of the guy needs to stand to be able to pull from the tree. Right? So him plus his basket. Whatever size. Not gonna have a far more to whatever number is that I need myself to be able to stand and walk around the tree. That's the amount of space. Each tree. Well, the tree itself, I understand that in between the trees I'd say. Now outside the perimeter of these trees is that space that I need for each tree. Right. That's correct. That's correct. That's correct. But it goes in and out. It goes like this. Right. It doesn't go, it doesn't, it's not a complete circle. It goes around the tree and then it goes in and then goes out. But it could be a triangle, right? It could be a triangle. It depends on the planted. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you see the, this is the bottom door by the black part. You see this? Yeah. Because the internal, I have the inside of the tree I already own because that's in between the trees. It's the outside of the trees that I just get this little semi-circle area to go around. So it goes like in and out, in and out. Yeah. It's still, right. If it's in a row, it's not that way. That's true. It's not, it's in a row, we said it's not a field, it's a thing. Good. Okay. So that's the, that's the statement. Okay. That was the statement. The statement is you get the tree, the land of the tree in between the trees and around the trees to get to, to harvest. Good. Yeah. Right. I was skipping the box, skips a few words over here down, we'll jump up down. I don't understand what you're talking about. The guy gets his field. He can't even get to those trees because he doesn't get the path because. So you're telling me now that he gets external outside the trees on the other guys' legs. On the other guys' land to be able to harvest, you know, he can't even get there. That's his question. Okay. (speaks in foreign language) This is a separate field. Right. (speaks in foreign language) You don't get a path to that field. (speaks in foreign language) He has external on the other guy's property to harvest. What are you talking about? (speaks in foreign language) Stop. Open parentheses. This, this, the next two lines are just the parentheses. There's an inference from the statement of the, of the (speaks in foreign language) He says (speaks in foreign language) (speaks in foreign language) (speaks in foreign language) (speaks in foreign language) (speaks in foreign language) Close parentheses. He can infer from the question that it's two that the question was about, right? (speaks in foreign language) Sorry, three is the, three what the question was about because he owns the land in between. If he bought only two and he doesn't own the land in between, he would have a path to that. He would have a path to that to the, because the guy was (speaks in foreign language) his land to the buyer, the tree. When you give me the tree, you own the land, you give me the tree, and your land is not subjugated to my trees. (speaks in foreign language) You're not allowed to cut the branches anymore, which means I also have rights to get to those trees. It's only when it's a separate field. It's three trees that you're calling it (speaks in foreign language) It's now a new field separate from the original field when you say I don't have a pathway, but if it was not, if it was still the same field and you sold me the trees, I'm allowed to walk there to get my trees. Even though, even when I don't, because otherwise, what are you selling me? I don't get anything. Why can't we hold that? No, because I already have rights to your field. My tree is allowed to be in your field. It's part of the sale automatically. (speaks in foreign language) That's correct. You have to buy a path. Any time you get the land, any time you get the land, you have to buy a path. If you're not getting the land, that means the land that's there is already a subject, something to get your trees. If it's something to get my trees, I'm allowed to go there. (speaks in foreign language) That's what he's saying. He's infer that the land from now on. Now we have back to the question. The question was, I don't know what you're talking about, right? The field, you get the field. You don't have a path there. How are you telling me I'm getting outside the perimeter of the field? The other guy, what are you talking about? (speaks in foreign language) Now the question was asked by the (speaks in foreign language) And I'm sorry, (speaks in foreign language) And the (speaks in foreign language) And he's understanding, challenging from a Mishnah that seems to be (speaks in foreign language) You're saying he holds (speaks in foreign language) What's he challenging? He holds himself that (speaks in foreign language) If he sold the field, he sold the rights to the get the trees. What's that question? Why is he even asking this question? He's a (speaks in foreign language) Right, he's on that. He's on the, yeah, he's on the picture. He's the captain of the (speaks in foreign language) So why is he allowed to ask this question? So he says (speaks in foreign language) No, no, his question is from the Mishnah. This Mishnah, (speaks in foreign language) doesn't fit with the (speaks in foreign language) And he's asking the question from the Mishnah. Based on the (speaks in foreign language) of the Mishnah, now why is the Mishnah not (speaks in foreign language) Meemai, how do you know the Mishnah can't be the (speaks in foreign language) (speaks in foreign language) Because the Mishnah said that if the trees start to grow, now I'm allowed to cut. Think about this is the part where I sold you three trees, right? And now you have your own little field, mini field inside my field. And the Mishnah said that if your branches start to grow outside that area, me as the seller, I'm allowed to cut those branches off. (speaks in foreign language) I'm allowed to cut them. Now if I'm a (speaks in foreign language) I shouldn't be allowed to cut those branches either. And therefore, since it says you're allowed to cut them, then that means that the Mishnah is (speaks in foreign language) And that's why the (speaks in foreign language) So this Mishnah is not a (speaks in foreign language) So I'm asking a question, (speaks in foreign language) But this Mishnah is not a (speaks in foreign language) And I don't understand how you (speaks in foreign language) So he says, (speaks in foreign language) And if it's (speaks in foreign language) (speaks in foreign language) Even though the bottle can cut the (speaks in foreign language) No, if it was (speaks in foreign language) I wouldn't be allowed to cut the branches, because when I sold you the field, I also gave you the rights to get to that field, to let the branches grow out to my field. (speaks in foreign language) (speaks in foreign language) Before we get to that answer, (speaks in foreign language) Right now, (speaks in foreign language) I give you the field, I give you the path, I give you the right to let your branches grow in my field. (speaks in foreign language) That's the (speaks in foreign language) And therefore, (speaks in foreign language) And he says, (speaks in foreign language) This is not a (speaks in foreign language) So I'm asking a question, (speaks in foreign language) If it's not a (speaks in foreign language) How do you say that the guy gets the outsides, the extras, what are you talking about? (speaks in foreign language) (speaks in foreign language) (speaks in foreign language) How can you say, (speaks in foreign language) Why would you be allowed to cut the trees? He says, (speaks in foreign language) So Richie's answer, (speaks in foreign language) You think (speaks in foreign language) It says, (speaks in foreign language) You could step on me no matter what I do now, like, (speaks in foreign language) And you trample along with me and do whatever you want, even if it's damaging to me? No, no, no, no. (speaks in foreign language) (speaks in foreign language) Then he says (speaks in foreign language) And you get a path to the well, to the things, because leaving that on my property doesn't damage my property. The well is the well. Nothing's gonna happen to the rest of my field when your well is there. (speaks in foreign language) Who said the (speaks in foreign language) would allow your trees to grow onto my property, bring extra shade, ruin my crops. Who said? Who said? Who said? And therefore, it could be the (speaks in foreign language) And I could tell you to cut the tree. It could still be the (speaks in foreign language) And therefore, it's not even a question anymore. The mission is okay, 'cause it could be the (speaks in foreign language) And that's why he gets the outside around the trees. What's the, what are you asking to be, (speaks in foreign language) Must be, you don't hold that (speaks in foreign language) 'cause you're asking your question on the mission. (speaks in foreign language) So he says (speaks in foreign language) (speaks in foreign language) Right, (speaks in foreign language) Right, (speaks in foreign language) (speaks in foreign language) (speaks in foreign language) Right, (speaks in foreign language) Right, (speaks in foreign language) Right, (speaks in foreign language) And your trees are growing into my field. And they're overhang into my field. That I'm allowed to trim your branches on to, that are on my side, up to a height of the, the guy standing on the plow with his stick to hit the animals, right? Right, (speaks in foreign language) Right, (speaks in foreign language) I'm allowed to trim them even about, even about (speaks in foreign language) So, over here too, why? 'Cause they're damaging me. So, (speaks in foreign language) So, (speaks in foreign language) I say (speaks in foreign language) Absolutely. But when you're damaging me, that's a different ballgame. Right, (speaks in foreign language) Right, (speaks in foreign language) Could be, (speaks in foreign language) Could be, (speaks in foreign language) And (speaks in foreign language) Maybe, (speaks in foreign language) Maybe, (speaks in foreign language) Maybe, (speaks in foreign language) maybe, (speaks in foreign language) Could be, (speaks in foreign language) Could be, (speaks in foreign language) Could be, (speaks in foreign language) And that's why we asked on him. 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