Focus on Africa

The death of Rebecca Cheptegei

Olympic athlete Rebecca Cheptegei has died days after being doused in petrol and set on fire by a former boyfriend. The 33-year-old Ugandan marathon runner, who competed in the recent Paris Olympics, had suffered extensive burns following Sunday's attack. We hear a moving tribute and reaction to her death, also what's it like being a female athlete?

Over 100 people have been killed in northeastern Nigeria by the group known as Boko Haram. Are the militants re-grouping?

And can AI be helpful when it comes to archiving African music?

Presenter: Audrey Brown Producers: Frenny Jowi in Nairobi. Bella Hassan, Rob Wilson and Claudia Efemini in London. Technical Producer: Nick Randell Senior Journalist: Karnie Sharp Editors: Andre Lombard and Alice Muthengi

Duration:: 38m
Broadcast on:: 05 Sep 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

Hello and welcome to this podcast from the BBC World Service. Please let us know what you think and tell other people about us on social media. Podcasts from the BBC World Service are supported by advertising. Hey, it's Mark Marin from WTF here to let you know that this podcast is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. And I'm sure the reason you're listening to this podcast right now is because you chose it. Well, choose Progressive's name your price tool and you could find insurance options that fit your budget so you can pick the best one for your situation. Who doesn't like choice? Try it at Progressive.com. And now some legal info, Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliate's price and coverage match limited by state law, not available in all states. Explaining football to the friend who's just there for the nachos? Hard. Tailgating from home like a pro with snacks and drinks everyone will love. Any easy win. And with Instacart helping deliver the snack time MVPs to your door, you're ready for the game in as fast as 30 minutes. So you never miss a play or lose your seat on the couch or have to go head to head for the last chicken wing. Shop Game Day faves on Instacart and enjoy $0 delivery fees on your first three grocery orders. Offer valid for a limited time. Other fees and terms apply. Hello, I'm Audrey Brown and today in Focus in Africa we are talking about the seeming return of Boko Haram after a massive attack in Northern Nigeria. But did the militant Islamist organization responsible for kidnapping thousands of children including the Chibok girls ever really go away? The level of fatalities experienced during this last attack was so so high so the view of many people is that Boko Haram has actually regrouped and they are becoming more sophisticated because more than 100 people have been declared missing dead or buried. And we talk through the dangers and opportunities posed by using artificial intelligence to archive and notate African music. It's Thursday the 5th of September. First we go to Kenya. Three years ago we were shocked and saddened by the killing of Agnes Tirop, an athlete from Kenya. The following year Damaris Mutua, also an athlete, also from Kenya, was killed as well. Again we were shocked and saddened. Today we heard that Rebecca Chapter Gay, who had recently competed in the Paris Olympic Games, had succumbed to burn she had sustained earlier this week. All these women were world-class champion athletes. All of them died as a result of domestic violence and their intimate partners are identified as the main suspects. Following the death of Agnes Tirop, her friend Joan Cellimo founded a foundation in her name to try and address the increasing violence against women athletes in Kenya. Of course violence is not confined to athletes only or women in Kenya alone. It is a worldwide problem. But the brutal killings of young women in their prime has led us to try and understand the threat faced by women athletes. So while investigations continue and the sporting authorities call for stronger protections, I've been speaking to Joan Cellimo, who is a self-an athlete, about Rebecca Chapter Gay. Rebecca was a Ugandan athlete, she was a marathon runner, she was also a mum and she was training in a tent. She was married and she lived in a place called Endebas. It's like at the border of Kenya and Uganda. Yeah she was a very nice person. I met her during the Paris Olympics because I was also doing the marathon as her and we didn't talk much but she was so passionate, she was so hard walking, like getting her to the Olympics. She was so happy. Yeah she was so nice, she was so hard walking and she was training and living in a tent and she yeah. When was the last time you spoke to her? When I was in Olympics in Paris and you had no idea what was going on in her private life. You didn't see any sign of it. Sadly I was not close to her but I was having an idea because I spoke with a coach. We have a support group with Thirop Angels that we found it after the death of Agnes Thirop, who was brutally married by the husband. So we talked to coaches around just if there's any athlete going through abuse to report to us. Sadly she just reported to the coach about what she was going through in her marriage but she was 50/50. She still wanted to go back because the husband convinced her and it didn't get to Thirop Angels. That's why I was even telling the coach right now that whenever there's any problem, please you should not handle the case. Send it to us because we have a big team of consulars, we have a team of professionals who would handle any case because it doesn't just start by just banning someone or mother, it starts by very small things. And people need to be on the lookout for those things, right? Because Agnes Thirop tell us about her and why the organization Thirop Angels was started. After the brutal matter of Agnes Thirop by the husband, it was a wake-up call for all the female athletes in it and it was a wake-up call for all the women around here. And I promised myself me and my friend Viola Laga that we are going to set up a foundation where all the women would come and would just express what they are feeling or even if they feel stressed they can just pick up and say what if they are going any kind of abuse from their husbands, their coaches or anyone report any form of violence. So we set it up the foundation since 20, 21 and it's up and running, we have an office in detail and it has been really working so well. We have saved almost 20 women to be killed by the husbands or being taken advantage of. It has been working so well. Of course we cannot just do everything, something more needs to be done because you see Agnes was mad at, there was another matter that happened and now we have Rebecca and it's very sad for us from our point. We are hoping that we are going to work even with the government now and create policies on how we can just help these athletes. We know about three women who were killed brutally by partners. You've just said that you were able to help and rescue about 20 women athletes through the work that you do and that's just in the last three years. Just tell us, is it particularly widespread this form of violence against women athletes or is this a reflection of what is going on in broader society. I would say GBV is just everywhere. It's more high risk here in the 10 because it's a part of the culture. I remember even like my grandma's generation, it's cultural but it's high-rise on the sport because we have these young girls who come here and train and they are like teenagers. They travel internationally and they get these athletics earnings and they're being taken advantage of Ada from someone who will connect them with agents, Ada from the physio therapist or even get married with their young. It's more because there's talent and there's money and most of them tend to fall into the hands of these perpetrators because they end up getting married by the wrong people who are looking at them as properties more than just for the sake of love. So they are married just because of what they have but not because they love them. That is why it's high-rise in most of the training camps. I think also most of the men are lazy and they just look for an athlete who has money and they just want to just hold on and just have good cars and just good life. And when the athletes discover themselves because if they are married when they are very young, when they want to be independent financially or even decision-making, when they want to leave the state relationship, that's where the problems start. It didn't start now, right? I mean, we've had women athletes and the concentration of people training in places like E10 for a long time. Does it seem to be intensifying because more and more athletes are becoming more successful? More and more athletes are becoming more successful, especially women athletes, especially young moms because most of them also have moms when they are teens. And when they discover they have the potential and the talent, they tend to work so hard. So I think it just happens. It really breaks my head. Yeah, I know. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. Yeah. Are you happy for us to continue? Yeah, I'm okay. Okay. So it's the rise in women recognizing their strength, their power, their authority, and men not being able to deal with that. Does your work with the Terrop Angels, do you do both rescuing the women and working on the consciousness of the people around the women who are the athletes who are doing this so that it stops because it's not a problem for women only, right? It's a problem for society. Yes, yes. And it was a big challenge for Terrop Angels fast to be accepted by the community because the community felt like we were against marriages. So we had that resistance at first. And when we incorporated men into the foundation is when they realized that it is something that is not only about women and defining GBV what it means. Now we are also working closely with men because we realized when we empower more women, they go out there, even girls, they would meet the men. And that is what we do. So we just do general, we have both men and female. And what kind of work do you do to try and stop gender-based violence? Yeah, first we do school visits because I told you this is cultural. So like changing culture, we decided like we'll go to schools fast so that we educate the young boys and girls. And of course, because it's GBV is very sensitive. And we have this program, it's called Don't Touch For Schools. We teach them like nobody should touch your private parts like a song and just harassment. Things not real about matter because they are young. That's one that we do in schools. We also empower women. We have these programs, we call it chapati face. We really empower women who are doing business who are in the communities who fit into GBV and they have nothing. They have no money to help out their lives. So we have this program and we really teach them on how they can be independent women. They can just know how to make soap, know how to do bidding and then sell it just to be independent on the self. Also, we have the program called Beyond the Finish Line. So like we restore the dignity on the kids because most of the kids go to school and they have torn clothes, they have no shoes. So like we restored the dignity by just having them new clothes from the donations we get. Also, we now do awareness on athletes. We have these programs that will be called professionals from financial people who come and teach women how you organize your finance. We have also a team who comes for physiotherapy to train retired athletes so that they can be massage therapists because I'm telling you, in a 10, there is no one massage therapist who is a female. We felt like most of the girls who come to us, they have like three babies and we ask what is the problem. It's like I didn't have money to get massage and someone took advantage of me and that's how I'm a mom of three. So we are like, can we just empower women to be just massage therapists and they can help out. Also, we have a training program for female coaches. It's called the HESCA program. We train coaches. We train men but also we have a big slot for female coaches so that we want these young athletes who are female to be more comfortable if they are being coached by a female coach. And also, of course, we go to communities. We have many other programs because you know we are based in Elgio Malacrecht and a female genital mutilation is on high rise. So we go to the communities and talk to them and educate them about the dangers of FDM. So you're basically pointing to an industry, the athletics industry in Kenya and the fact that it's dominated by men who are taking advantage of young women. Of course, it's not unique to Kenya. We read often about abuses in other sports like athletics in the US and so on. So it's not unusual. How do people respond to the projects that you bring to them, the programs? For instance, when you're trying to train coaches or young men, how to behave towards women, how do they treat you when you go into schools? Are people receptive to these ideas? To be honest, at first, we had a lot of backlash. We had a lot of resistance from our own people. It took us almost now, it's almost three years now for us to be accepted. We end up being trolled, if you even have my name on Facebook, you'd even meet someone who tells me, "John, you're trying to bring up the Western culture." And this is very wrong because how will we survive if you just want to make these women independent? You are against our marriages. But we decided now to incorporate men in the foundation to do counseling for both female athletes and male athletes. And as I tell you today, even the politicians, when they saw from the political aspect, like we have them coming, we have MCAs and the leaders from around the chiefs supporting Europe Angels is when they change the whole mindset. And now we are so accepted, you cannot imagine after the death of Rebecca, many people are calling me, "How do we help? What can we do?" We want to support you even from the political aspect. So I feel so good. I feel like I thought there was a bit of resistance. Right now, we have been accepted in the community because we incorporated men and we took to politicians who both female and male and they could come have their talks and the local chiefs when we have seminars, when we are creating awareness. They would be make a joke like these tiny small girls, what are you trying to do? What are you trying to teach our culture from our elders from a long, long time ago? Women, the place was just to be in the kitchen and just have babies. And if there was a problem in marriage today, the problem would be the woman. It would be regarded as her fault. And violence could be even in marketplaces. If there was a neighbor who was beaten up by the husband, you'd find people making jokes about it, talking about it like it's nothing. It's like a source of entertainment. But now it has changed because we get even calls, even at midnight, people call there is some violence happening in my estate. That's where we send the police and go and intervene. Before in eternity, it was just a source of entertainment. People are making jokes about, "Ah, he's beaten up." It's like really nice stories. It has changed a lot. You said that more needs to be done. What do you think should be done? I was just thinking that besides the fact that this is so painful for any woman, any man, it should be as well to read that somebody was burnt in this way and died, that it should also just be an embarrassment for any society, that we can see something like this and from the country that gives us excellent athletes. Do you think that the Kenyan government should feel embarrassed and do something about this? Do more? Yes, yes. First, we need to struggle legal protections for female athletes, comprehensive policies that address both physical, psychological abuse, and the government should invest in creating or reporting mechanisms that are safe and confidential and ensuring that the victims can come forward without fear or any relation. It's very essential for their sports federation or sponsors or partners to be held accountable for safety and work with the athletes. Just bring us up to date very quickly with what happened with Agnes Tiropp's husband. He was arrested and is he still facing trial now? Yes, but he's out on bail. He's working freely in his village. We are waiting for the sentence. We are hoping that justice will be served. Thank you very much. Thank you. And my condolences to you and your fellow athletes. Joan Chelimo, athlete and founder of the Agnes Tiropp Foundation. Now, time was when we frequently heard of attacks against communities across northern Nigeria by a group called Boko Haram. Their actual name is Jamad Asuna-Lidawa-Wahal Jihad. Their intention since they sprung into violent prominence in the early 2000s was to replace the government of Nigeria with a caliphate across the north. Their means were violent from the start, kidnappings, car and suicide bombings relentlessly across the north and sometimes even the capital Abuja. Several presidents promised to destroy the organization. At its height, Boko Haram kidnapped thousands of children from schools in the northeast. Among them, the Chibok girls in 2014, many of whom are still missing. Things seem to die down in recent years with smaller, sporadic attacks. This gave rise to the hope that the army along with civilian militia had managed to drive Boko Haram out of action. But now they've struck again in the most deadly attack for some time. They attacked a village in Yobe State with a local police saying it was a revenge attack after two Boko Haram fighters were killed by local vigilantes. Retired Brigadier General Tahiru Abdu Salam, security adviser to the governor of Yobe State, gave more details on focused TV. At about 4 p.m., when the people who are performing the afternoon prayer, Boko Haram insurgents stormed by five village, they gathered the people in the mosque and then after some interaction, they opened fire indiscriminately on the helpless, unarmed innocent civilians. Destruction for now is calm, but it is unpredictable. The official line is that 34 people were killed, but local sources have suggested the figure could be more than 100. To understand what's happening with Boko Haram, I've been hearing from security analysts and fellow at the London School of Economics, Ucheigwe. I think that the first thing to talk about is the perception. The perception we have in the country is that the security agencies had an upper hand. What happened was that Boko Haram people and the insurgents were scattered due to the military bombardments. They were displaced apparently from the northeast to other areas like the Mott West, other states, Qasina, Qadunah, and Niger states, where they are grouping as bandits and also carrying similar and often more violent attacks through kidnapping and all sorts of things. So did this attack surprise everyone? Did it come out of the blue? It surprised everyone. It surprised many observers because apparently, app perception that they have been displaced is not completely correct. It appears that they have started regrouping, and if you look at the 14 years or so of Boko Haram attacks, the level of fatalities experienced in Yobe state during this last attack was so, so high, apparently one of the highest since Boko Haram insurgency started. So the view of many people is that Boko Haram has actually regrouped and they are becoming more sophisticated because the last count, more than 100 people have been declared missing, dead or buried. So these fatalities are really high. Why would that be the case? Is it because the security forces have not been able to route them completely or is it that Boko Haram is much more resilient than people thought? I think it is the latter. Boko Haram is much more resilient than people thought. The whole thinking that they have been really, really routed out and defeated is not completely true. What is clear is that either as Boko Haram themselves or as bandits or as kidnappers, they are connecting with other violent groups outside the country, and apparently they have military supplies, they have weapons, and they are increasingly daring and more sophisticated, more than we all thought. There were groups that were armed by the security forces to help fight Boko Haram. And according to reports, this attack is said to have been in retaliation after two Boko Haram fighters were killed. Just remind us about what has been called vigilante groups, you know, the other groups. They called the civilian JTF. That's right. And the civilian JTF is basically a group of villages who actually know some of these Boko Haram fighters because they were originally part of them in the communities before they, you know, joined Boko Haram, went to the bush and from there they were launching attacks. So some of these civilian JTF people were actually acting as informants to the military, informing them of these persons, of their locations, because sometimes when they carry out these attacks, they come back into the community to see their families, their wives, their children, and everything. So the civilian JTF, they were providing the information to the military. But again, what it means is that the military have shown lack of capability to protect this, you know, this, their informants and this civilian JTF. That is what this attack in your best state exposed. So by in return to the information they received from civilian JTF, the military ought to protect them, because if you recall before now, when some of these civilian JTF people brought the information to the security agencies, and when these Boko Haram people get released, one way or the other, they come back and carry this retaliatory attack. So it is not surprising that the civilian JTF people on the receiving side of Boko Haram violence. But what is surprising is that the military and the security agencies grossly failed to protect them. How effective were they in actually helping to fight Boko Haram, this joint task force? Because we used to hear that they were not properly equipped, they didn't have proper weapons, they didn't even have proper boots. So how much did they actually help? Well, the most important part of the fight against Boko Haram, because these Boko Haram people are from our community members and the Soviets, that from the issues we hear about the military, about the difficulties in the terrain, the military needed and stillness a lot of intelligence. So that is the value of these civilian JTF people, not necessarily in fighting Boko Haram, but in providing intelligence. So the role of the military is to protect them in return. Previous governments in Nigeria have faced criticism for not arming the military properly to fight Boko Haram, not having the political will to do so. President Bolatinubu has been in power for about a year or so. What is his strategy for fighting Boko Haram? Well, every president that has been elected since Boko Haram started as part of their campaign, always assured Nigerians of security. And to be fed to the current president, he made a few changes in the military high command as soon as he took power. So what our expectation as citizens is that there will be an increased pushback on Boko Haram, bandits, kidnappers, and in security in general, especially in the North Central and the North East and in the North West. But I think that the results we are seeing do not match our expectations as these attacks continue. So that is the only way to justify or to rate and appraise the commitment the political will is the kind of resource we get. Unfortunately, these attacks continue. Many of them like what happened in your base state are present. So security analysts find it difficult to see the kind of improvement that President Bolatinubu assured us and promised. All right, then. Thank you very, very much. That's been really interesting talking to you. Thank you. Appreciate it. All right. Yes. That's the security analyst and researcher at the London School of Economics, Uche Igwe. This is Focus in Africa from the BBC World Service. Good taste is easy to spot, but hard to pin down. You know it when you see it. And in today's culture, there's no greater signifier of taste than the car you drive. You want something sophisticated, but not stodgy during yet classic, approachable, but with an air of opulence. That's where the Range Rover Evoke comes in. The reductive exterior is an elegant expression of Range Rover DNA, and the chiseled taillight graphics give the evoke a sense of motion even at standstill. Explore the Range Rover Evoke at landroverusa.com. As John broke over the seven seas, the pirates of the Crimson galleons set sail for adventure. But there was one problem, paperwork, mountains of it, filing invoices, you name it. Luckily, their captain had an idea. She used the smart buying tools on Amazon Business, so they could work more efficiently and get back to doing what they do best. I know, right? Amazon Business, your partner for smart business buying. Just play is music metadata intelligence company with the strict focus on African music. You know, archive data on African music with the goal of making them available to software developers, researchers and all sorts of engineers, especially where we need higher intelligence and African music to serve the African audience. That's the current president of the African music library and CEO of Jossplay, Emmanuel Ogala, will hear more from him in just a minute. Producers like him are beginning to apply artificial intelligence in the music industry across the continent, not just in making sounds, but also for storing or archiving music. This comes against the background of music from Africa being bundled under the label World Music or the generic label of African music without recognizing the depth and variety of sounds across the continent. This is where artificial intelligence comes in, perhaps to fill in the gaps of knowledge, but also to provide access to the music. But the power and reach of artificial intelligence can do good and it can do damage. There are particular fears that it could disenfranchise musicians, robbing them of income and ownership. How realistic are those fears though? Will AI help or hinder African music production? Let's hear from Emmanuel. But the world has always seen African music as the single entity. It's not African music, it's very difficult and very complex. In fact, there's no such such an African music as a genre. There are over 100 artists, it's genres that we've documented at Jossplay with sizable number of audiences. They have their own quirks, they have their own nuances and they are complex in their own rights and these have to be studied in their own rights. Where do you use artificial intelligence for? Artificial intelligence is very critical to what we're doing. They're able to not teach these songs, to say, you know, this is all the properties they have. It's not possible with humans and so we have to train a lot of AI models to understand what we want and then pass our data through them and then they have the monitor to give us the final data that we can then use in making these decisions. But it's been done by humans up to now? Yes, I agree with you. It's been done by DJs, it's been done by a lot of music curators, but it's not just possible to do this skill that we do it. When there are millions and millions of songs to look at and one of the challenges also we face with music in Africa. Most of our problems have always been solved by people in the West and they always see African music as African music. But seriously, it was only one genre, one music that described everything that was on Western and recently we have African music to describe everything African. But African music is so different from Cape Ville to Mauritius, you know, there are just so many genres in Africa that a lot of people enjoy that cannot be just classed as African music. I mean, AI is only going to go by what it knows and what it has in the sense of it will only know as much as is available to it. Now, if we're saying that there isn't a lot of information around for AI to make those decisions, how do we ensure that this particular machine, because it is machine learning, is accurate? First of all, the human knowledge. We source the humans who are aspects, the processes you transform what the human knows into AI and then the AI does what it does, brings back results, the human reviews, is it correct? Is it not correct? What's correct? What's wrong? We feed that back. So we have that continuous feedback loop that continues training the AI. So it takes time and data back and forth and after a couple of training sessions, the AI becomes quite as good as the human. Well, I suppose the question would then be, so why do we need the AI? But Tabu Osusa is a Kenyan musician and I have a quote here from him. He's worried about ownership. He says, once you take music from Ghana or Nigeria, who owns the music? How would you find out where the original creators are and show that they are credited? And he says, actually, it's theft through the back door. I see that if you really don't understand how it works, do you think that's possible? But I think that's most people in the world who don't quite understand how it works and only see it as a process that drops them of something. It's a serious concern. Yeah, it's a very serious concern. And what we do is we keep both editorial and contextual metadata. So editorial metadata tells us who did what and when, you know, who was the musician behind this, who was the producer, who was the songwriter, who was the chaker, a player. This is another quote from Tabu Osusa. He says, people don't study music in Africa. They're born with it and live it. It's spiritual. And it's always alive. It changes over time. It's dynamic. And I think the fear for him is that AI will sort of freeze or cement music. And he feels that it will be taken away from African musicians. Seems like people feel like AI is stealing something from them. Yes. People do feel that way. But I feel differently. I look at it as it's true. I'm not the product. Here I can make music. And I see where Dafia is coming from, because recently there's been a you know, the hype about GPTs, which can transform text to full music, right? And then if I, who's not a musician, for instance, can just use text to generate music, then it begins to compete with the musician who does music on a daily basis as a living. And that competition is what most people are afraid of. I see AI as a tool. GPT is just a very tiny bit of the AI world. Anybody that makes music right now and record music, if you use any software to make music right now, you generate a lot of tones, you generate sections of music. These are all being done with algorithms for a quite a long time. I also worry for African music, because as part of our documentation, we up until the 2000s, you could document someone who plays the chakera for instance, or a battle drum player, or a conga player, something very African and unique. But right now, in most music that I've made these days, you don't find those. Those players, those human elements in making music don't exist, because they are digitally produced by some sort of algorithm. But the feature I see also is that it's great to breathe some kind of new skills within the African music industry. In the sense that I don't believe AI can make any genre in African music as good as the humans who really do them, because AI depends on human knowledge. There are also fears about people losing not just the skills of, for instance, having a chakera player, and if there's AI that can do it, why train somebody to do it themselves, but also just the economics of it. So unregulated sampling methods, which will enable recording companies in the West to make money while leaving some creatives in African villages to language, which is not just a problem that might become prevalent because of AI. It's a problem in general, isn't it, for African creatives, where people do use their creative capital and make money out of it without them being able to do it. How do you address that? You know, royalties is a big issue. Yes, royalty is a big issue, and you know, the AI development has developed faster than how we initially conceived of a license in a royalty. But first, people are able to steal, because we are not represented at a table, at the global music industry data table, where if I use a sample in my music, right, a radio station, for instance, in the West, I able to identify the music they are using just by running the software that listens to their, you know, their playlists that are playing and realities and disposed later on. And so, you know, part of all we do is also the ability to identify where these samples have been used. If a sample is used in Canada, for instance, a radio station in Canada should be able to run a software, a standby software that just listens to their music and is able to tell you, "This actual record belongs to S and A, but this record contains samples from another artist, and that artist is, you know, B, that's it, it could be African." But if that software does not have this metadata or talking about, then that becomes impossible. The metadata can only, you know, make decisions based on what it knows, based on what's in this database. And right now, Africans are not, you know, very much represented in the digital world of music. Thank you so much. Bye-bye. All right, all right. That's Emmanuel Ogala, current president of the African Music Library and the CEO of Jossplay. Focus on Africa was put together by Bella Hassan, Rob Wilson, and Claudia F. Emini here in London. Franny Joey brought it from Nairobi. Carney Sharpe was our senior journalist in charge of quality. Nick Randal was our technical producer. Andre Lombard and Alice Moudengi are our editors. I'm Audrey Brown, and we'll talk again next time. As John broke over the seven seas, the pirates of the Crimson galleons set sail for adventure. But there was one problem, paperwork, mountains of it, filing invoices, you name it. Luckily, their captain had an idea. She used the smart buying tools on Amazon Business, so they could work more efficiently and get back to doing what they do best. I know, right? Amazon Business, your partner for smart business buying. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it at Progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law, not available in all states. [BLANK_AUDIO]