A new era of American comedy began in 1975 with the premiere of Saturday Night Live and a young producer named Lorne Michaels calling the shots. Willie Geist gets together with the SNL creator and executive producer in famed Studio 8H to talk about the show’s legacy, and how they put on a live production in the middle of both a pandemic and a presidential election. (Original broadcast date October 18, 2020)
Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist
EMMY NOMINEE: Lorne Michaels
Focus Features presents a first-of-its-kind Lego movie adventure piece by piece. The story of revolutionary artist Pharrell Williams turns up the volume on your imagination with a big screen experience like no other. Discover what it takes to build the greatest music ever assembled with a star-studded lineup. Snoop Dogg, Kendrick Lamar, Gwen Stefani, Justin Timberlake, Jay-Z, Busta Rhymes, Dap Punk, and more. Piece by piece, rated PG, directed by Morgan Neville, only in theaters October 11th. Get tickets at piece by piecefilm.com. You love this podcast, every episode. Imagine if you couldn't listen to it anymore, or if you couldn't connect to any podcast. Imagine what you'd miss if you had no internet connection at all. No way of finding a job or banking or seeking medical care online. That's what life is like for the millions of Americans facing the digital divide. Since 2021, AT&T has committed $5 billion to help connect every American, so everyone has a chance to thrive. Now back to the podcast. AT&T. Connecting changes everything. Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit Down Podcast. My thanks as always for clicking and listening along. Got a great one for you and I'm excited because it's the first in-person interview we've done since March. My guest this week is SNL creator and executive producer, Lauren Michaels, the mastermind behind Saturday Night Live, who created this show that launched 45 years ago this month. First show was October 11th, 1975, hosted by George Carlin. The last in-person interview we've done for the Sunday Sit Down Podcast and for Sunday today on NBC was with Octavia Spencer on March the 12th. You remember what was going on on March the 12th? It was sort of the day before the world kind of shut down. So we were happy to get in person, doing an in-person interview these days does not come without layers of precautions, especially when you go up to SNL. So I work just to give you some perspective. We do the morning Joe program on MSNBC that I host on the third floor. My office on the second floor at 30 Rock. They shoot SNL in studio 8H on the eighth floor. So Lauren and I got together and we sat up in the bleachers overlooking that famous stage, overlooking all those sets. It was on a Thursday night of a show week. Bill Burr was the host. They had just, we'll remember canceled the musical guest Morgan Wallen because he was seen on TikTok partying after a football game without a mask breaking protocol so he couldn't come on the show. They put together, Jack White came on the show as a quick replacement. So that was all happening as Lauren and I were sitting down. Lauren literally was on the phone booking Jack White. So you'll hear me and him announce that news to me in this interview. Obviously by now that's a week and a half or so old but that's what that moment was. And we're up in these famous yellow seats in this famous studio where they've done this famous show for 45 years. We talk about the legacy of the show. We talk about how much longer Lauren Michaels might want to do the show. He's been there for 45 years. He's 75 years old now and he has created an American icon. Think of all the cast members who became huge stars. Think of all those sketches you'll never forget. Think about all those moments during political campaigns and debates that were made even more famous by SNL. And we talk about that. We talk about covering the Trump White House. We talk about doing the show during this high stakes campaign. We talk about bringing Jim Carrey in to play Joe Biden. And we talk about the role of the show right now in a time of national mourning really in a time of national tragedy where people are losing loved ones or losing jobs. What is the role of the show? How does he look at SNL in these times and what should it do and and how hard frankly was it to bring the show back safely into Studio 8H. So you'll hear about all that. Remember they finished the last season 45 remotely with all the sketches being done basically over Zoom. Well they're back in the studio now as normal as they can be smaller audience but at least there's some audience he said they need some response. They need some laughter to make it all work. So I think you'll enjoy this conversation particularly if you're a fan of SNL to hear about the legacy of it how it began, how he views it now and how difficult it is to put on the show under these modern circumstances. So please enjoy right now my conversation with SNL creator Lauren Michaels on the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Lauren thanks for having us. Happy to be great to see you. Good to see you. So let's talk about what it's been like just to be back. I mean in March you guys left you weren't sure how long that was going to last about finishing out the season. What are the challenges of coming back into this space under these circumstances? Well I think the first and foremost is just the protocols, the safety protocols. Before I came here for this I was tested again as is everybody every day. You wear your mask all the time. The cast wear them up until the red light goes on and take them off. The audience is in masks. There's fewer audience. There's now what would normally be a hundred there's now a hundred what would normally be four hundred is now one hundred and there are 18 people on the floor and giving those tickets to first responders and who are an enthusiastic audience. But I think to get used to the sound of a much smaller audience it sounds about the same at home. It does. But for us it's just like oh it's just a little less energy and a little less confidence when you walk out. That said the cast have adapted to it and obviously Chris Rock did great last week. But I think we're finding our way with it and what we can do what we can't do. It's a weird thing in our culture so much of it is so much every week is based on accident. Running into people things just ideas that start one way and then somebody else gets into it and it changes. And so the idea that you can't have that and so that just the flow of ideas we're we're finding other ways for that to happen. But it is and texting I must say helps that. But it's a single people in a room. My room my office upstairs which would normally on a Monday have 40 to 50 people in a big meeting with the host is now five. That's the maximum office here is three. So you just are in that people are coming in in waves and so something you have to remember to say everything again. That's all right. I mean you last week I think you said I'm not sure if we're going to be able to pull this off with the show and you did. Yeah we did. Yeah we did. It's not good. Not my you know my curse is that I mostly see the mistake so I focus on that and then six or seven hours after the show goes off I start to realize yeah it wasn't bad. But that's you just always have an idea of what it could be if everything worked and that hasn't happened yet. 46 years. So what are you going to learn you think from week one to week two what would you do differently? I think how much the machine can handle how much it changes when we have to have things in which it's always been a writer's show and the writers and performers working closely together. So the production part of it has tended to sometimes have to wait on the writing because we've just last week we had that debate you know on Tuesday and then on Thursday night Friday when the president proved tested positive it all changed. So you had to have now we had to put it back as perspective on it and it was being rewritten. I don't think the final version of it got to dress rehearsal. There was a certain part of which we just had to go with dress rehearsal but the script changes had gotten into the control room not to the cards. So I think people fortunately Jim is great at what he does in Alec and Maya and Beck and so they just sort of rolled with it and then the changes did get in for error but it's not quite you haven't done it once so you come in you're just off on the wrong foot a little bit but everybody did remarkably well and I don't think most of it was noticed at home. No no for the most part it looked like it always does. I was going to ask you about those changes because as someone who hosts a morning show covering this presidency we go in at 6 a.m. with a story that's our lead and by 8 a.m. the show is completely different. No and never has you know because because he tweets he can change the dialogue and he knows that obviously so it's a very effective weapon. Now it's beginning to bite a little bit because it seems more impulsive and so it's harder to make sense when they come when they come too fast and furious it just is harder to get the point across but it's it's a very effective thing. I imagine your writers after four years of this have a little bit gotten used to it knowing that what you go in at the table read it wins. Oh you know and most often we don't even attempt it to Friday. We've been doing the debates or or anything political Friday night because it's and so Alec Baldwin wouldn't normally be called in before Friday night. So it's it's fortunately the cast are good at it and can can adapt. You mentioned Jim Carey. Yes. A lot of people were thrilled by that choice. How did that come together? Yeah. He I can't remember whether Lindsey told me or somebody told me that he'd expressed interest in it and then then I spoke with his agent called and as soon as I heard it you know we we could have gone in a bunch of different ways and this was before we went off in March and I thought no no that's the right that's the right balance to what we have as playing the president. So but no one knew till he got he was in Hawaii for eight months and then he arrived here like two days or three days before we started. So we hadn't really seen it but I would never doubt that he has it. So particularly on an impression there was two long sessions on the makeup and the look over a two day period and I thought they did relatively with that and got that right. And it's a it's a hard thing to do because the impression has to fit the look that that's the accurate look. So and he's used to using his face so I think but it all seemed to work and when he came out with the two pistols and and all that and the shades it just looked it looked right and original. He's such an original and distinctive performer so when a star that big comes in is he open to notes from your writers and your guys of maybe you should play it this way or is he does he have an idea and let's do it. He's open to notes and has a lot of notes. So it's and I think we found out last week that not everybody could have a voice till the end so at some point we have to lock it and I think we'll be better prepared this week. Was there ever any chance Lauren that you wouldn't start this season back in this studio? Was there discussion of well maybe we'll have to be your mom. I think it was all I talked about all you know all summer and leading up to it was I need an audience. It's one thing for Jimmy or Seth you know it's they've adjusted to it and they don't live on the audience but because we're taking big swings and they're hard jokes when you don't hear any sound it throws the timing off and the thing that the audience does is it's the connection that you know it's the plug that makes the circuit work and the performers need it the audience needs it and and whatever we felt about any show before we did it it all changes once you know it hits the atmosphere once the audience we hear that audience sound so the piece that you were absolutely convinced was brilliant on Wednesday that address rehearsal it just withers and everyone's looking at each other not trying to assign blame but more with the sense of wonder like why isn't that working sometimes we can figure out why it wasn't working but very often it was just no they're not uh we trust them and in a way because there are 400 people we've never met before uh and who've never met each other it it leads you trust it as opposed to the first you wrote it may have a you know be very committed to the length and and everything else about it but uh the performers intuitively know when when something's going too long or whatever so you need to really see it up on its feet with cameras with effects with all those things and that's why address rehearsal so important such you've always said right the audience gets the final vote it doesn't matter if they don't laugh no matter how much you love it it's gone exactly i mean we'll sometimes open i will because i'm stubborn put pieces on that uh i won't open with them but they will go on because they're worth it or because uh they're important to us or because i think i'd rather go on record with that than not so you're talking about the protocols and i can say just being here how seriously you guys are taking this and everyone in this building is i told you i'm here alone in the mornings yeah it's a different universe for sure um has that been hard for cast you said they're taking their mask off right before the red light we did i think good maybe you saw pictures of it but what we did read through which we normally do around a big table right with a lot of you know with coffee with food to eat with water uh and uh the read through we're doing now starts there and goes all the way to there uh with everybody at a table six feet apart and microphones so it's not intimate right uh but we can hear it and then you can get a sense of whether and uh our cast and our writers have always uh it's always been an honest room people laugh at what they think is funny and and it's not nobody feels they're being uh unfair or um unkind by not laughing do you know what i mean yeah it's we need it to be honest and we don't have a lot of industry there or a lot of people who are involved in the production so uh it's as i said it's an honest room it's now just a much bigger honest room uh Michael and Colin were around with Jimmy the other night maybe last night and Michael described the read through as like just listening to a podcast you're sitting here and voices are coming in from like it's true different experience yeah um your musical guest this week yes had to be canceled because of these protocols what happened there what happened was there was a you know TikTok video of him over the weekend uh and it sort of went viral and uh there was just a lot of uh concern because in bringing somebody to New York state from out of state there's there's protocols for that and then there's protocols so we went with testing he was tested he was never tested positive uh at any point but uh they were just he it didn't test positive and we were testing every day but we were running out of days and the amount of days that he would have had to test it negative was one day past what the show would have been and I you know let's just say at any other point in my life I just would have said we're doing it and uh and if I had to do it I would pre-tape it Friday night and if he tested negative tested positive on Saturday that I would have gone uh I would have gone live but uh it just wasn't possible and I talked to him and and I said we can't do it now but we will do it soon and whenever you're ready call and and you'll be on that week so I think uh we we had a good talk well it was his reaction on the other end of the line um I think he was grateful for the fact I think he's got some work to do and I think uh he was honorable and and and honest and kind of charming and uh so I think when he comes back it'll be great to have him and uh I always feel badly when because you're always trying to mix the host and the music and the other things that are happening so that it feels like that show it was that set of ideas and I think he would have been perfect with uh with Bill. He was very gracious he made an Instagram post that I screwed up you know and yeah and I he probably isn't the first country saying we were the first person from rock and roll who uh party after a big day in that case a football game or a concert but um it we're just living in a different time and everything is scrutinized uh you know in a microscopic way. So now another curveball comes to you. You're great at this. Have you booked another musical guest or about 48 hours till the show? We're in the we're still in the middle of it. I know Jack White is coming in and uh there could be some some other stuff that's still still in uh in discussion which will probably be in any anytime soon in the next hour or two. I imagine when you call a musician says where do you want me? When should I be there? Not I mean it depends on whether their band is together or where you know I mean you can't calling somebody on a Thursday to be here for Friday and say you know is uh complicated. Yeah. It has to be people who are ready to go. Great. Jack White. Yeah. Not a bad replace. And he's always good on the show. Just always good. Yeah. So Lauren I'm interested in asking you about sort of SNL at these times of tragedy. Uh-huh. You know 9/11 who could forget the show where you stood there with Rudy Giuliani. Can we be funny and he said why start now? Yeah. How do you view the role of SNL in these moments where people are grieving and people are in pain? I I think whether it's a show or a newspaper or if you have an audience you build up and earn trust. They know you're going to deliver and that you're going to try and be honest about what you do. So I think the fact that we've always shown up even at those at home shows which were tactically impossible. Uh and it was the weirdest thing because I was talking to everybody but I had no idea where they were. You know what I mean? This first could be in Ohio and that person's up in Rhode Island. You know and and yet everyone pulled it together and uh everybody showed up and and the shows were they were different than our normal show but they in their own way out that they were brilliant. So it's just there's a connection and we've and because we're live I think they know we can change things up to the end and that it will seem dishonest if we're still stuck on something from Wednesday and everything's changed in the meantime. So uh the nimbleness of that is part of the appeal and it's probably it's one of the few broadcast shows other than sports or news where you really should see it live because uh it's of the moment. You know and not to say you shouldn't watch it on social media but you know what I mean it there's just it has a really impact when it's working. I know you're not terribly haughty about your show but do you think it's important for SNL to be here for people in these times when they're not feeling great? I do and and not at any grand where I just think it's our job and that's what we do. You do well. Oh thanks. Hey guys thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Stick around to hear more from Lauren Michaels right after the break. Focus Features presents a first-of-its-kind Lego movie adventure piece by piece. The story of revolutionary artist Pharrell Williams turns up the volume on your imagination with a big screen experience like no other. Discover what it takes to build the greatest music ever assembled with a star-studded lineup. Snoop Dogg, Kendrick Lamar, Gwen Stefani, Justin Timberlake, Jay-Z, Busta Rhymes, Dap Punk and more. Piece by piece, rated PG, directed by Morgan Neville. Only in theaters October 11th get tickets at piecebypiecefilm.com. We wear our work day by day, stitch by stitch. At Dickies we believe work is what we're made of. So whether you're gearing up for a new project or looking to add some tried and true work where to your collection. Remember that Dickies has been standing the test of time for a reason. Their work where isn't just about looking good. It's about performing under pressure and lasting through the toughest jobs. Head over to Dickies.com and use the promo code Workware20 at checkout to save 20% on your purchase. It's the perfect time to experience the quality and reliability that has made Dickies a trusted name for over a century. You love this podcast. Every episode. Imagine if you couldn't listen to it anymore. Or if you couldn't connect to any podcast. Imagine what you'd miss if you had no internet connection at all. No way of finding a job or banking or seeking medical care online. That's what life is like for the millions of Americans facing the digital divide. Since 2021, AT&T has committed five billion dollars to help connect every American. So everyone has a chance to thrive. Now back to the podcast AT&T connecting changes everything. Welcome back to the Sunday sit down podcast. Now more of my conversation with Lauren Michaels. So I believe that, yeah, we, yeah, this Sunday, yes, will be the 45th anniversary of the first show October 11th, 1975. Yeah. When I say that to you sitting here still 45 years later. What do you think? Well, I didn't sign up to this. They just worked out that way. And I think it's, I think when you're, I was 30 when it started and I'm not interested in doing the math, but I think that when you, whatever you set out to do in life, particularly in the arts, there's what you set out to do and then what you're good at. And this for me took sort of all my talent. And sometimes it's consuming. But at the same time, the schedule is designed so that people, creative people need downtime. And it's intense. And this is the first time we've ever done five shows in a row. Four generally is not turned out well. But there's no choice here because it's not a week that there's not a debate or there's not a week that you can, and the whole country is paying attention to this election. And the part that's not so much fun is it's five shows that a row and everybody understands what that is. And then, well, what if it gets held over? What if it goes to the courts? Sort of have to show up for a sick show. And I don't think long, I honestly believe that the level of fatigue will be too much. But we won't be gone for long if we disappear. So 45 years. So if you think about 1975, coming out of Nixon resigning, the last helicopter leaves the embassy in Saigon, it's a time of, it's a tumultuous time in the country, obviously. So what was sort of the ethos of the show when you started it? And do you still see it out on these stages today? Yeah. And I think that, weirdly, although it's not fun to talk about New York City, it was not in great shape in 1975 when we got here. And it seems a lot of that is resonating today and in the months and possibly year to come. But I think that what had happened then was most of the established institutions had been discredited. The president was to be impeached and resigned. The military was discovered to be not credible in terms of what they've been telling us about Vietnam. And most of the things that people normally trust to set the course were in flux. And that change led to people that led to a lot of conspiracy theories, but also led to people not knowing where or how to trust. So it was more important to try and be an honest voice then. And I think it's still, I mean, it's an honest voice, but we are in professional show business. So it was that mixed in with it too. So our first, our job is mostly to entertain, but to do with the level of intelligence. But still has to make you laugh. I like reading you say, sort of roll your eyes at the idea of speaking truth to power because the power doesn't change, right? No, it's just, yeah, I think if you start to think that you're doing important work, not a, not a good sign. It's an early warning that you're about to be accepting a lot of degrees and lecturing people. The end is nine. Yeah, exactly. And how do you explain the longevity of the show? Why is my 11 year old son waking up every Sunday morning and rushing to the DVR to you time to watch every sketch? I think that the weird part about it is that the form that the show took, which was the format I was given, which was the old tonight show format, which was sort of nine acts of six to eight minutes, sometimes we went longer or shorter, but is perfect for social media. It was a happy accident, but that worked out. I mean, it wasn't part of the original design, but short sketches, commercial parodies, musical acts that are three, four minutes, they translate perfectly into the new media, whereas the hour drama, less so. I mean, the hour drama that was broken up with commercials. So that had to be refigured out and it sort of been refigured out on Netflix and on streaming services. One thing that doesn't seem to change for 45 years is everyone has an opinion about SNL. Right now, now there's so many forums for that. Oh, the show's lost at the sketch, but they're not doing this right. Do you hear any of that? Do you listen to that? It sort of washes over me because, you know, there was a period when there were three or four reviewers that actually mattered and people took it all very seriously. I think it's everything now is aggregated. So you hear that the majority of people feel this or the majority of people feel that. And we're always surprised. Do you see a day, Lauren, anywhere on the horizon where you're not sitting on that office anymore? Well, I'd like to, my plan, I'm not sure that I'll see it through, but my plan is to be here for the 50th. The 40th was great. I don't like them. I like them 10 years apart. I think it's, and we really did the 25th and waited 15 years for that one, but I don't have those 15 years. So I think it'll be the 50th. And by that point, I think I really deserve to wander off. No question about it. When you look out into movies and television, and you see all the faces, all the people whose careers you've launched from the studio, how does that make you feel the look at sort of the Lauren diaspora? I don't think about that way, but I think the tremendous benefit of that is that you can bring people back who you know are perfect for that. And they almost always answer the bell. So it's a, I won't get into names, but it's sort of helped keep the show alive for all the generations, because you can have people who are part of the cast, you can have people who hosted a lot, you can have people who are right and who are great at it, because it's a certain set of skills. And it's a scary one, because you really need to be in good shape to do it, and on your game. So the fact that they still want to, or that they speak the same language, or the way we'd said, the fact that they get it, there's just not a lot of talking. They just go, yeah. It's a muscle they have. Exactly. It's great. I'll get into makeup. Thank you, Lauren. My big thanks again to Lauren for a great conversation and for welcoming us safely into Studio 8H. You, of course, can catch new episodes of Saturday Night Live every weekend through October 31st, a long run of new shows. And my thanks as always to all of you for tuning in. If you want to hear more of the full-length conversations with my guests every week, be sure to click Subscribe so you never miss an episode. And of course, don't forget to tune into Sunday Today, every weekend on NBC. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you back here next week on the Sunday Sit Down podcast. (Music) You love this podcast, every episode. Imagine if you couldn't listen to it anymore, or if you couldn't connect to any podcast. Imagine what you'd miss if you had no internet connection at all, no way of finding a job, or banking, or seeking medical care online. That's what life is like for the millions of Americans facing the digital divide. Since 2021, AT&T has committed $5 billion to help connect every American, so everyone has a chance to thrive. Now back to the podcast, AT&T, connecting changes everything. [BLANK_AUDIO]