Today's episode with Coach, Megan Devito. She is a former teacher who used to struggle with anxiety and balance, the way we all do. She learned how to make herself feel better, how to step into her power and be her most authentic self and is now coaching other women to do those things for themselves. I'm thrilled to have connected with somebody so in alignment with their truth, passion and purpose. She has a podcast, too! Here is her link tree to find anything she's doing: https://lnk.bio/mKX6 Enjoy!
Emotionally Unavailable
Episode 61: Lessons
It feels so bad, it feels so horrible, it's awful. Literally just a braid to feel with you. Really are in the grand scheme of things so minor compared to the major transcendence that happens when you do those things. Everything has to be perfect. If I screw up, I don't know what I'll do if somebody thinks that I screwed up. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) ♪ Emotionally unavailable ♪ - Welcome to Emotionally Unavailable, the podcast where we dive deep into the world of emotional availability and intimacy. I'm your host, Melissa Hepner, and I can't tell you how excited I am to have you join me on this journey of self discovery and connection. Whether you're navigating the complexities of relationships or exploring your own emotional landscape, this podcast is here to inspire, empower, and entertain. So get cozy and let's explore the depths of human emotions together. - Hello all. Today's episode is with coach Megan DeVito. She was so fine. I had a lot of, a really good time talking to her. Lots of energy like me. She is a former teacher and is now living her passions and teaching other people how to do that too. So I think that's great. And again, I just loved our conversation. I love the work that she does with women. So I will make sure to include her information in the show notes. And I hope that you guys really enjoy this conversation too. And I hope that you guys are doing well. So here's me and Megan. (singing in foreign language) - Hi. - Hello. - How are you? - How are you? - I love your hair. - Hi. - Great, thank you. Oh, thank you. Thank you, thank you. - Hello, I know with curly hair, it is quite the job. My middle son has so much hair like you with curls and we're learning how to deal with that because it is- - The best advice is just don't ever touch it. - That is what he does. - Yeah, he's seven times- - Don't touch it. - Yeah, he just leaves it alone. Every now and then I'm like, "If you could just right here, just deal with that sex." No, okay, that's nice. - The more you touch it, the more frizzy it gets. And yeah. - Yeah, we bought him the Diva Curls shit, you know? - Yeah. - Because that's the only thing I knew to do, but he every now and then tries it and I'm like, "I don't know what you were doing there." Bella, come here, please. - Happened, yeah. - Okay, so it's so nice to meet you. You are a coach. - Mm-hmm. - I'll tell you a little bit about that. I'm so sorry about that. - Sure. - Let me let her out really quickly. - No, you're fine. I actually just put mine in their beds because they were doing the same thing. - No, why not? - Goodness, let me knock everything over getting back down here. - Okay, sorry about that. Okay, yes, please. Tell me about your coaching. - Sure, so I coach women, usually women who have great big things that they want to accomplish, but they also get really anxious and up in their heads and stressed out so they end up sabotaging themselves or just deciding that it's impossible. So I really work on their confidence, help them learn how to manage anxious feelings inside of their bodies and just create steps that are easy for them to take with lots of fun incorporated because that's kind of the, I feel like that's the antidote to feeling anxious if we can go out and have some fun and things are so overwhelming. You're not feeling so stressed out and anxious about it. And then they end up being more confident and getting where they want to go without all the mind drama. - Right, well, and plus, if you're not having fun, like are you really in alignment with what you're supposed to be doing? - Right, right. - I mean, that's been my biggest lesson is like, how full of love for everyone, I feel after every single recording, after every single therapy session with someone, everything I'm doing, I know for sure is in alignment with my path because it makes me ridiculously happy. You know? - Yeah. - So I'm glad that you are incorporating that into what you're doing because it is so important and it helps people, I think, identify where maybe they have gone off track just a little bit or maybe their vision was a little clouded through their wounding and finding the joy and things really helps you to kind of get that mud off your glasses and go, okay, this is where my north is and that's my compass and I was just talking to somebody about like them and flow and like how maybe I don't need GPS map, compass and an extra GPS, maybe just a compass, maybe just something that says we're going here and we've got a general good plan, but can we allow a space for opportunity and abundance because if I stick with just the things I can plan for, I'm not gonna get the life I want because I can only plan for so much. I have to be willing to accept any opportunity that flows if it feels right and also I think when you work on those mindset shifts with people, I think the really important part is getting them to trust themselves so that they can listen to their intuition and say yes. Whereas before is so much of what that anxiety is, is you fighting your intuition? You know, don't you find that that's such a common thing with women? - Yeah, absolutely. And especially when I think one of the biggest things that I really help them do is to say, hold on a minute, let's just hit pause with all of the things that are swimming around like you're all up in your head. So let's just hit pause and notice how do you feel inside your body right now? Like, do you feel like you're curling into a ball? Do you feel like does everything feel like it's going a thousand miles an hour? If that's what you're feeling, you are not allowed to believe any of the garbage that's going through your head because that is all frantic, anxious thinking. So let's just hit the brakes. Let's take care of this because once we can manage that feeling inside of your body, your thoughts just shut up. - Yeah. - For the most part, it's like- - We do, it's amazing. - Yeah. Well, and even just when you get them just, you know, at first, I want to say this as a clarifier just for people who are kind of just starting healing because when we talk about the things that we know now because of the work that we've done inside of ourselves, I know for me at a certain time it felt impossible. So what they don't understand is that what will happen very quickly, very quickly when you start to do this type of healing, your thoughts will at least slow to a very manageable point where I didn't realize how much was happening inside of my brain or how to know you are overthinking. And what I had to do was notice my back, neck, and shoulders are so intense because I block every feeling I have with my body. And I had to realize, oh, I'm overthink, 'cause I would be like, something is very wrong right now. And you know, this was after I'd started the process and I'm trying to figure out how to feel and whatever. And it's like overthinking, overthinking. And it is rapid fire thoughts and it's lots of different ones. And you feel like they're fighting with each other and what in the hell is this? And then one day I was like, okay, well, we've learned that if you're thinking this much, you're not feeling. So let's get the pressure off of our shoulders. Very literally you are in so much pain right now. Let's fix that first. Let's relax, you know, let's get that chill out. Now, what are we feeling? What are we trying so hard not to feel? - Yeah. And I think that so many times when we dig into that feeling, and if we just start even just listening, because so, you know, people say, how does it feel? It feels bad, it feels so horrible, it's awful. I'm like, yes, yes, yes. It really does feel that way. And let's just like break it down into specific emotions. And every, almost, almost every time there is so much love wrapped up in there. It's like, I feel guilty, I feel stressed out, I feel overwhelmed, I feel all of these things. And like, and, and, and when we get into really like, about what, what's going on? Like, why do you feel that way? I just love this person, or I love my job, or I love this thing so much. - I don't wanna let them down. - It's yeah, and it's so much love wrapped in there, which is amazing. - Yeah. You can just unknot everything and take a minute and say, hey, wait up, there's a lot going on in there. - Yeah, well, we don't wanna feel any of it. So we're just like, oh my God, go away. - We're so afraid of what that feeling will do to us. I know I felt too fragile to face myself for so long thinking that to face any of this wounding would feel as badly as it did the very first time I experienced it or something. And it wasn't until I was trying to work on not dismissing specifically my kids, even in my head, when they were going through something that, you know, arguably was dumb for them to be reacting to this level, right? I have a 10 year old girl. So, and she's a Gemini, you like me. So, you know, she got real big feelings, it really does. And she is even bigger displays of those feelings at times. And so, I was like, okay, you were emotionally unavailable this child's whole life. So let's figure out how to now meet her needs in this way. And it's hard because some of it, I just feel physically and emotionally taxed at that point. And I'm like, I don't wanna deal with this. But I started to say, okay, what are we dismissing in ourselves if we're dismissing her to this level? Even if she didn't know, what are you so afraid of to sit with her in her feelings? And it mostly, with any of my kids, leads back to, I feel like I have failed you in some way, or I'm not enough 'cause I can't fix whatever's upsetting you. And also, literally just afraid to feel with you. You know, that doesn't make sense if you're not aware of this in yourself and we're all doing it, so figure it out if you don't know. But I really was so unaware that I was even emotionally unavailable for all these years. I thought because of my work and because of the way I quote unquote connect with others so well and whatever, you know, we could trauma it up. And I was so good at listening to other people's stuff that I didn't have to avoid mine. What's not emotionally available about that? I gave them wonderful advice, you know? - I am here all the time. (all laughing) - I love an emotion, feeler. What are you talking about? It was amazing to discover quite the opposite actually, but yeah, I was literally afraid just to feel. So now I have to ask myself that still, this is still an area I'm working a little hard on. Every single time that I'm like, - Oh, not again. - I'm like, okay, let's just, first of all parents, they stop whining so much faster the more you care. I mean, truthfully, the more you care, the faster it's resolved. And I've noticed that in myself too. When I face the feeling and I figure it out, I can release it. I never knew what that meant. I thought it was a hokey woo-woo thing when people would be like, "You feel it?" And then you release it. - Well, that would be beautiful. That would be beautiful, please. Can you tell me how to do that? Because every-- - That's really the question, isn't it? - Yeah, how do you release it? How? Somebody tell me, and that's kind of what I've-- - You think I wanna feel like this? - Yeah, exactly. - You released it a long time ago, yeah. - And the resentment that I would feel and the trigger that would happen when anybody would even remotely imply that I was choosing this anguish that I lived in. You know, like, who would choose? Okay, well, I mean, I was, obviously, that was a choice I was making by avoiding a feeling at all times, at all cost, including my back, it's never gonna be the same. But, you know, that's the work that you have to do to get to a place where you believe that you're the person that you want to be because you already are all of those things. You just have to clean some things up a little bit. You gotta clean the way you think about yourself. You gotta organize your space accordingly. You know, it's just some shifts that really are in the grand scheme of things. So minor compared to the major transcendence that happens when you do those things. I mean, I have not, my daily life looks so different, but only because like one big decision of quitting a job and, you know, starting all of my own freelance stuff, yeah, that was a huge decision and I did have to, you know, really get some work in on me to be able to do that. But, otherwise, it's been small shifts that meant a great deal, but just small, where, you know, the first thing was realizing that this person I was trying to future self-journal about, there was an aspect of that I wanted, but I didn't want, like when I was like, why are we trying so hard to never have a temper and never express something with force of any kind? It means because I carried such a deep-seated shame about responding or reacting in a triggered state for so many years, where I came off as a very angry person, but, you know, anger in a triggered reaction to very different things, anger is an emotion that you feel when you think something's been taken without your consent or an injustice has occurred, where somebody could say the most minor things and I'm like, you know, just like a rabid dog just leaching at them and they're like, oh my God. Yes, those things had to change, but who I was then and who I am now isn't all that different. I just love myself now. That was where I did. - Yeah, what are the biggest struggles that you feel like you see with women to get to the place where they can be successful? - I think that we always, well, for one thing, I think as women, we've learned to take care of everyone else and there's value to that, for sure. I think it's value in taking care of other people. I think it's part of why we do what we do is because we do want to help other people. But I think a longer way we learned that we should not take care of ourselves in the process. It means you take care of them, but you'll fall in line later. But who's taking care of us all the time? I mean, there are people taking care of us for sure, right? Like we do have people, we have friends, we have partners, we have other people who are, but when we put ourselves at the back burner and we're like, I have this, this, this, this, and this, all these things I have to get done, these kids I have to take care of or, you know, I have all of these things and I have to prove myself constantly. We just haven't gotten to a place where there's so much shame in admitting that we're good at things or in asking for what we're worth or in, I mean, that alone and I have to be perfect. Everything has to be perfect. If I screw up, I don't know what I'll do if somebody thinks that I've screwed up. And I'm like, I don't know, maybe my hair taught me not to be a perfectionist 'cause it's like, I don't try. You know what I mean? Like with that kind of thing. But there's also a very, like on the flip side of perfectionism, there's also a stiff arm aspect where I can feel that in myself a lot and it's something that I really deal with where if I feel like I'm like, instead of trying to be perfect, I will be, I don't care about that. - Self-sabotage. - Where it's like, I will self-sabotage, I don't care. I don't need to do that. We're inside, you know, I'm like, it's something I wanna do so badly. And so I think really just learning how we can take care of ourselves in that process and whether that's through coaching or through therapy or through really getting honest about what you're good at and what your gifts are, my big thing is like, I believe that every single person was created for a purpose and until you're willing to put that purpose out there, you're not gonna feel fulfilled. And the rest of us getting, and the rest of us miss out because we need everybody at their best. - Yes. - And that whole, I boost other women is great, but if all you're doing is boosting them by giving them a like on social media and you're not actually supporting them and telling them, no, no, no, no. I mean, referring other people, really supporting them and say, no, you need to get out there and you need to be scared for a minute and do this. That's one thing. And the other thing I feel like we're really in the middle of right now is an entire society who is afraid to feel anything that's uncomfortable. - Yeah, I think you're like, I don't wanna be uncomfortable. I don't wanna do anything that scares me. I don't wanna do anything that is. - And part of it is because I feel we're afraid we're gonna get yelled at or we're afraid somebody's gonna post about it on social media. But we really are, we've gotten to this place where everything is too scary. - Well, you made me think of something. And I think that the reason that we get so afraid specifically to the point of like people posting about us on social media or screenshotting us because we did it. We all know that we were the hateful girl when we saw people doing stuff that subconsciously we didn't believe we could accomplish at that level. You start hating, period. That's what we do when we don't know what to do with our insecurities. So at one point or another, most of us have done something of that nature and you now are in the seat where people can do that to you. And if you haven't done the work to get over that, you care a lot. Now, I don't care. I don't necessarily want to see it, you know? - Right. I don't want it. - I'm a human, but nothing's gonna throw me off course. I mean, if all of the insane tribulations that I went through just to get this podcast like launched, the tech issues. I mean, I've never done anything like this. And I said, okay, girl, perfect is the enemy of good. Your sound's gonna be crap. Everything's gonna be terrible. But the conversations will be good because I'm good at this, right? So like, this is gonna be the thing. And I decided I had never wanted to do it by myself 'cause I was telling myself I wasn't interesting enough. - That's what I mean. Think of the shit that we say to ourselves that we would never say to somebody else. - No, I would never say that to your daughter. - No, I'm not feeling like, what are, I'd be mad at her for saying that about herself. I'd be like, not it first of all. You are so interesting, you know, but I never voiced that to a single person until I started the podcast. And then I was open like, by the way, the reason I never, you know, and the feedback that I, it's hilarious. I don't need the feedback because I know that I'm good at this, you know? And I'm not afraid to say that. But at the time, I was really convinced that I needed someone to feed off of or, you know, or whatever I thought the podcast was gonna be. And even just authentically being myself, the podcast has evolved from the beginning because I was afraid to be too serious or too deep or too anything be too much because I have carried a narrative my entire life that I'm simultaneously too much and not enough all at the same time. And I think that we all do on some level, if you really look at yourself, there's a part of you that has to face that part. And chew it away because I'm neither too much, nor not enough. I am so good at exactly where I am. I think the prior versions of me for getting me here, I'm not gonna hate on them either. This current version, real happy, real living in light, you know? And I'm ready for all of the abundance and the things that I'm waiting for. I mean, they are coming and right now in this very moment, things are really good. I feel really fulfilled by the work that I'm doing. But I couldn't have if I continue to limit myself with statements like I'm not interesting enough. And that wasn't even the nastiest thing I was saying to myself or about myself, you know? - Oh yeah. Yeah, I think we do. I think we just, and we learn it in this place of modesty so that we don't, people don't think that we're better than that or something else. And I was like, I was like, wait, what, better? I mean, two people can be really, be good at the same thing. Thank goodness, because there's a lot of people on this planet. - Yeah, getting to that place of an abundance mindset where you just realize, hey, we're gonna win bigger and better together because life wasn't meant to be lived in a solitary space. It was meant to be spent in a community of some sort, whether you spend a lot of time in isolation because that's what your spirit needs or not, you still have to connect with others to thrive and be your happiest self. And also, what is the point in your gifts if you're not sharing them with others? What, you know, why would we be given those gifts or talented talents if we weren't going to share them? And I think you're exactly right. We have been taught modesty. You know, if you think about the way girls are socialized, just like I have had to talk to my daughter about, like she has said things like that. Like, well, they were just bragging, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, well, first of all, they're not bragging. They're excited about something and they're telling you about that. And they think as your, as their friend, you will be happy with them too. And second of all, that says way more about you than it does them, you know? Like, it's really like, dude, they think they're better than me. You think they're better than you. You think that and they're not, they're not better. They're behaving in a way that suits their lives much more, they're in much more in alignment with their truth than you are, but that's not better. You know, get to your truth. We can all access this. And that's really what I'm trying so hard to do with this podcast and the other things I'm trying to do is just for people to understand, heal first, 'cause you can't give of yourself if you haven't given to yourself first. I'm all about self first period. Like, I fill myself up first. I give myself the love first, the profit first, you know, anything first because I have to be my best self to get anything out of this stuff. Like, what would be the point in even trying to get somebody else to heal and love themselves if I'm backtracking every day, trying to like, you know, love myself a little more or whatever. You have to get to their first, not, you don't have to love yourself to heal. I try to make that disclaimer because I know that it feels very scary when people say that and, you know, if you don't think that you're a person who can love yourself, then you can just shut that down really quickly, but you don't have to love yourself to heal and you don't even have to love yourself to be really successful. Obviously, we've seen people do that. But if you want the life we're selling, you know, where we're saying step in, lean in, get up, you know, the life of your wildest dreams, you do have to love yourself because you gotta, you gotta get past all those mental blocks if you ever want to step forward. - Yeah, and when you are in that place where you're like, oh, well, I don't love myself. I don't know that I, you know, if you're still in that place of I can't, it's really hard, I think it's from that place to even imagine what you want because it all feels too big and too impossible. And that's what I think specifically, I thought so much about this in the last couple of weeks. When I say the word, I really have been tripping over the word ambition or ambitious because I had a client who said to me, I don't feel like my goals, I feel like they're silly. I don't feel like they're big enough. And I'm like, wait, hold up. So we went, we were reviewing their goals. They had already been through their first set of goals. They had started starting on their second set. And I was like, well, let's just see what comes next. And they were like, really, what I want is, I want to be able to be present with my family. I want to be able to sit there and really enjoy that time. I want to be able to take my phone and put it away and not be on my phone. I want to be able to give my kids this experience that I get to remember. And I'm like, stop for one minute and tell me why that's silly because people who are wanting to do these, I don't think ambitious means I want to climb Mount Everest. - Yes, there's somebody out there that that's their thing. But it's really just getting in line with what's valuable to you and what you're willing to work for. And when you are in a place where you don't think you're worthy of something or if your values are out of alignment and you're looking at what everyone else has and you're judging yourself because you don't want to start some billion dollar business. - Right. - Okay, cool, but what, this is valuable stuff. I mean, raising well-rounded kids. Yeah, please do. - Yeah, I will. - Yeah, pretty good. That's a pretty big, ambitious goal. - Yeah, very. - So, right. - Right, right, very ambitious. - Things are too small. If you feel like I can't think bigger, sometimes that goes back to just the judgments that we have about ourselves again and just saying, hey, well, that's a really, really great goal. What if that's exactly what I need to be doing? And then as we get there, they get a little bigger than they expand and kind of like you said at the beginning, if we say I'm just headed to this one dot, then you're missing all the other stops along the way. We gotta be open and just say, okay, well, there's a lot of paths we could take to get there and they're all okay. - Right, exactly. Nothing has to be so concrete. But I think you're exactly right. I think that I see a lot of moms struggling in that exact space where they know that they can't keep doing what they're doing. They know what's being done isn't working in any area of their life. They're exhausted, they're burned out. They don't want anything to do with their kids because they need too much. Like when you're in a bad place, it's hard to be a mom. But then when they start to shift, I think that the space that they find themselves in is they've really devalued this particular role. And I feel like moms, I've seen this a lot recently where a lot of the problem with viewing your child as an extension of you or a reflection of you and like something that has to present a certain way is only because of the value you are placing on yourself as their mother, which is very low. You've placed a very low value on that part. So they must stand out to show the world, more importantly, you as their mother, that what you've done was worth something. But friends, that's not the craze, you know? I mean, being a human with or without the title of parent is so hard sometimes and getting through life struggles and turbulence and ups and downs, that's like so hard and so much work that you should like appreciate that part enough to know you're worthy, you're valuable. Being a good parent, which I know it's hard for us to accept that we are good at what we're doing as in parenting because we do wanna be perfect at that, right? It's very hard to release your expectations of yourself or them to be more of a flow parent. I'm learning to be more of a shaman around here. Okay, like where I just learned, okay, you really get very little control over what they, and I don't wanna do the thing that it would take to control every last thing in this house. I tried that for a little bit and I was like, okay, none of us are getting sleep, so we need to do something. And when I backed up and I backed off the child that I was currently struggling with transformed and grew and bloomed because all I was saying then is like, okay, we have an agreement and I trust you, I trust you, here are the boundaries. Don't cross those bounds, you know? And I had to widen them for him. That was different, but that's because they were way too narrow the first time around and I'm realizing, like, you know, you can only apologize for those things. I can't do anything other than be different now, but each child has gotten a different version of me. And now I hope that that version is just a person who just supports, you know, I want the supports in place so that nobody feels like they're just free falling in life, but enough to where they are allowed to make mistakes. And I just don't talk to them in that very moment if it was a mistake that really triggered me or something because they don't deserve all my triggered reaction because they did a human thing, a human thing that's very common for a kid their age to do. You know, like, why are we walking around creating all this shit for our kids just because we don't deal with our own stuff? So I think I see a lot of the criticisms that moms have of their kids and I just wish that they would just turn the mirror a little bit and be like, baby, you're just criticizing yourself because you're so afraid that what you're doing isn't working or that you're not enough to be this child's parent. And I promise you are. That's why you were giving them, you know, you're gonna, you have a lot of opportunity here to create this symbiotic and synergistic relationship with your children, but you gotta love yourself too. You can't just love them. You have to know that what you're doing matters a great deal, even in those mundane moments where you're just making dinner and, you know, yelling at your little dog or something, you know, all of it matters. - And in that place, I was having this conversation with a friend of mine. So my kids, my youngest just turned 16 last week. And I texted my friend and I'm like, I miss parenting babies. I was like, it was so much easier to get up in the middle of the night. And I'm like, this having my oldest is 24. My youngest is 16. I have a 21, almost 22 year old and an 18 year old. And I'm like, these people who I am parenting now, I'm like, are killing me. They are killing me because I used to have control. I had none. I had no control. Like, okay, maybe the 16 and the 18 year old a little bit still, but like the 24 year old, but it doesn't mean that you care less. And it doesn't mean that you are any less terrified half the time, like, oh my God, what are they doing? Like, are you, are you being smart? Are you being, like, what are you doing? So it's just that that whole, nobody prepares you for that process of having to let go. Like, nobody tells you, like when they're babies, like, look, this is gonna suck for a while. Like, you're gonna be really tired and grouchy and you're still doing great. But then they get to be an adult and like, you're going to be like, find this new line of, where can I go and where can I not go now? As the mother of an adult, I'm like, okay, if he's 24, what am I actually allowed to say? And when do I have to keep my mouth shut? But when do I still get to say like, listen, I'm still your mom and here's what I think. Like, do I just shut up about everything? 'Cause I don't think so, maybe. Nobody tells you. It's really hard. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's way easier when you just have to, like, feed them and not leave them in a hot car. Right. That's what you gotta do, you're golden. Like, yeah, well, see, this is the thing about me. The little kids, when they were little, like two to four, I could have adopted those children out for two years. I was not a toddler mom at all. Come back later. Leasing around after them nonstop. I mean, once I got my house like to where, you know, they're just confined in an area or whatever and I can clean or whatever. I survived it, but large displays of emotion have never been my thing because I wasn't allowed to do it and I shut up feeling down. So toddler tantrums, I'd be like, oh, Jesus. Well, oh, you know what I'm talking about. But then like, I thought, you know how when your kids turn 11 and it's almost like magical because you have this little window of time, especially with boys where they're a little obnoxious and stuff, but they're so sweet. And you're like, I am not going to have any of those problems that, you know, and then 15 and a half hits and you're like, who are you? That was really mean, like how did you say that? You know, I thought I had done, you know, some real good stuff when that first one hit, you know, 11 and then from 11 to 15. I was like, I don't know what yardage I've had a teenager. He's great. I don't know what you're talking about. It's so easy. Yeah. And then when he started thinking for himself, really critically, I'm like, you don't like me. Is that what you're saying? And it's crazy. You are so right. He is almost 22 and he just moved back home 'cause he wanted to go back to school and I was like, I'm home baby, that's fine. Yes, cool. But where are the boundaries now? Because, you know, he's taking up space in my house and there's all this stuff, but it's like, I had to decide how I wanted to parent him at this age. And actually, I mean, I'm doing a lot of the same work. I'm actually not saying anything unless they ask because my biggest concern right now probably is repair for being such an emotionally unavailable mother. I mean, they tell me I am like way too hard on myself and whatever. I mean, I've-- There you go. Yeah, exactly. I have the education that I have since the middle one, I was pregnant with him. So like, I wasn't doing everything wrong, you know, but I wasn't doing a lot right. So, but I feel the need to repair some of the messaging that I've given them. So now I'm really trying. I just, above all, I don't want them to feel like I'm criticizing in any way. I just am like, because the thing is is that rarely do they actually take my unsolicited advice anyway. They just feel really shut down in that moment, because I obviously wasn't listening if I had to come back with something that's a telltale for me, you know, like, you know, like, yeah, I'm not listening. No, I was waiting to respond. That's what I was doing. So for me, it's been a real struggle because I'm like, hmm, obviously with the big stuff, you know, where the boundaries are, like, awesome, no, because you live in my house and that, is that? But otherwise, it is so tricky to be like, what are the adult boundaries like? And especially, like, even what will I allow from you? Because that was one has a mouth and he can be mean. And I'm like, I'm also a human. I'm also a human. And in any other adult relationship, I would put space between us over this, because I don't deserve to be spoken to like that. And it's not even, I act like he kisses me out or something, but he knows exactly what to say to get to me, you know? So when he does, I'm like, you don't get to speak to me like that. But that was a hard thing. And I just realized in the last couple of months, how much fear I have pushed to the side about my relationship with them, fear that they will no longer want one with me, you know? I mean, we see I have cut off lots of family. My parents died when before they were 40, but lots of family members I don't speak to because they're toxic and it's not good for me to be around them. So of course, it's a natural fear to know that I've been a toxic mother a lot of their lives. What if they make that decision about me? There's so much fear. And I just didn't realize how I would walk on eggshells so much just trying not to, or even just taking on the responsibility of their feelings. And I'm not responsible for their feelings. I'm not, I can't fix that either when something in the world happens to them. I just get to be the person to help them respond, but I'm not responsible for that happening, you know? But I really felt that overwhelming sense that I was and I did not know that. That was not something I had identified. I would have said, "No, no, no, kiddo." 'Cause I'm such like a emotionally-innovable mom. So I'd be like, "I'm not working on real good boundaries around here, real good boundaries." - No, we didn't, we didn't. - Yeah. Yeah, I think you're right though. There is something about protecting your kids' feelings. And because we don't want them to get hurt and it is, it's such a balance where we know they need to experience those feelings to grow resilience, to be able to do all the things to learn what to do and what not to do. But there's also this really like, I would almost call it an intrinsic mama bear reaction where you're like, "Don't hurt my baby." - Yeah. - I don't know if my baby's 24, "Don't hurt my baby," or 16 or anything in between. - It does not matter, yeah. - No, it doesn't, it comes out and it is visceral. It is like, whoa, I shouldn't just hold on a minute, but it is very much a thing that's-- - Well, and as you said that, I thought, man, I remember how many things I've done that really have hindered their progress in life because my goal was to stop, jump in and fix the disappointment. - Yes. - Because I couldn't use it. I couldn't handle it in myself, let alone watch it in them and I'm like, "Oh, you know what'll fix it?" Money, let's go. Let's go buy you a gift or I'll take you to dinner. Love with food and money, that's what I get. - It's not something that we even make movies about it or we're having a bad day, let's go get ice cream. I mean, we do that, sure, I mean, that's nice, but maybe it's like what we're doing, what we're supposed to do while we eat the ice cream, that's important and the ice cream is just like not the part that we're supposed to focus on. Like you could have two that go home, watch TV. - Yeah, 'cause I was like, let's numb, you know, let's go ahead and just numb for myself and you. - Sure, good, yeah. - Yeah, and you good? Okay, bye, that was easy. - Awesome, let's go moving on. Yeah. - You're gonna be talking about it with your friend now if that works for me too, thank you. - Uh-huh, yeah. - But I do have a problem, so like truth finding, because I was so uncomfortable with my own feelings or the fear that I felt of, oh my God, disappointment, you can't feel that. And what would happen if I tried to sit in that with you? Somebody would die, let's go ice cream. - And I would have to feel it too, and I'm not doing that. - Yeah, I really did. I was like, when my boys are like four years apart, and I don't even remember what year this happened, but I think the second one was like in third grade, we'll say, our little dog was hit by a car and killed. And I just went right into that. I should have like given you a warning, I'm sorry. - Not sorry, I'm good. - Okay, and Jake is the middle one, and really, you know, she was his dog kind of technically, anyway, he was really close to her, but this was the first thing that my boys had experienced. My daughter's much younger than them, but they had never experienced this. And so I was like, huh? But like, I have tons of experience in bereavement. So I was like, okay, at least like they got meat for this, you know, like it's good. But I was like, okay, well, we need to make sure they got a full belly first. I picked them up from school, and I was like full belly. McDonald's, and they're like, yeah. And then I said, if you guys want, you know, McFlurry too, that'd be okay. - And they're like, what's wrong? - Well, they were on alert at that point. But as soon as the whole conversation happened, where I'm like, okay, well, Savannah died. That's why you got us McFlurries. And now it's like a running joke. Like if I offer anything extra like what is going on, I'm like, I know I don't try to comfort with food anymore. I'm sorry I did that. I absolutely did because I was so just uncomfortable with the fact that I was going to have to break that news to you, that I was like, maybe they'll be just like, you know, dopamineed up with that sugar. And then I, because then do you know what I did? I did all the therapeutic shit. And then as we were, you know, preparing to bury this dog, all of us just dark jokes the whole time. - Yeah. - And yeah, I mean, it worked. I mean, they're fine. You know, I did let you grave and talk to her about every test he took for the whole next year. And I never told him that it hurt me so bad to watch him do it. But, you know, that McFlurry, it fixed everything for us that just, you know, it did. - It's about for McFlurry. - Yeah. - You really will be like, why are you, why? 'Cause I'll be like, you want some ice cream? 'Cause I'm just getting fun for myself. - Why? - Now they're, I'd figure as ice cream, something bad that's about to happen. - Well, my oldest busted up laughing yesterday because I was talking about like, some conversation I had with his sister about like, if she were to start her period at school for the first time or something. I was like, baby now. - You don't, I'll sure I'll get you this little, you know, emergency bag you're requesting in fifth grade. But, if you start your period at school, I'm coming to check you out and we're going to get ice cream. Like that's not, we're not, we're not going to like, you don't have to stay at school. And guys are like, mom, ice cream. And I'm like, no, this is different. Every woman gets ice cream to the extent on her period. You wouldn't know about it. Don't talk to me. - Yeah, there are exceptions to that rule and that is one of them. - Absolutely. Period breakup, neither. We're, you know, we're gonna have ice cream but now we know how to talk about it afterwards. - Uh-huh, because there's a lot to talk about there. - Yes. I am curious about how you started to do this as work. - Yeah. - Like what was your journey there? - Mm-hmm. So before I was a coach, I was actually a teacher. I taught at-risk students at a really small choice school and I was ready to transition out of the classroom and I was just thinking about what could I do? What would I wanna do? I have a really long history of anxiety starting from when I was probably in third grade until I was probably 40. And it was to all health anxiety. Really very focused on my health. I thought I had every disease in the world and I would Google things and it was awful but it was really intense. And somewhere along the line, I realized that I'd been feeling good for a really long time. And I started looking back at like, what was I doing that was different? I was walking every single night mostly so I could get like out of my house because I do have four kids and I needed a break. So I would walk. And then I'd be like, if I walk far enough, I can come home and eat cookies after they're in bed. So I really started with bad intentions that it worked out. I also learned that I didn't really have to believe everything that I thought, which seems like common sense, but when you're really anxious and your thoughts feel very, very important and true, that cutoff wasn't there. So I learned that I could actually stop and look at my thoughts. And I learned that from listening to You Are a Badass, which has absolutely a thing to do with anxiety or mental health whatsoever. But it was just one of those moments where I was like, what? I think she said, worry is wishing for what you don't want. I'm like, well, who would do that? No one is doing that. - Oh my God, that's a good saying. - Yeah, I was like, worry is wishing for what I don't want. That is not like, that is ridiculous. Like I would do that on purpose. Yeah, I remember thinking this, I remember listening to the book and thinking, this is crap. And then being like, no, that was actually really profound, which it just, you know, I always think that those little tiny changes, all of a sudden, you know, you hear something and you don't realize it's exactly what you needed to hear. - It is so bad. - And then, you know, you get down the road and I was like, oh, I could absolutely, I started out as a health coach. And at my health coaching certification, I was gonna help people eat better and really start paying attention to what they were eating because I was eating and working out consistently. And I was feeling really good. But I realized I wouldn't really want to help people lose weight at all. And nutrition is great. - Sure, I'm not feeling. - I mean, it's fine, it's fine. And if that's somebody wants, you know, yeah. - Oh, absolutely. - But for you, yeah. - But it was really more about what you're eating and how it makes you feel. And I realized that, like, wait a second, my entire life is so different right now than it was that I got my life coaching certification. And I was like, look, I can help people with this, like, just, these are the things that I did that helped me feel better, not from a therapist's perspective, 'cause I'm not a therapist, I'm a life coach, you know? I'm not gonna diagnose you. I'm not gonna give you, like, any of that kind of stuff. But, yeah. - But there's one about you and teaching somebody how to live inside their mind in a peaceful way. - Yeah, and when you feel that in your body, like, because that feeling is awful, just learn that you need to not think for a minute. Let's get up, let's move. Let's like, let's breathe it out. Let's talk about how we can do that. Let's talk about all the ways we can do that. Like, you're working with the therapist, amazing. Let's back it up. Everything you're learning, let's create backup for that. And, I just got myself to a place where I was like, okay, I can deal with this in ways that I've never dealt with it before. And that's tough to say. I mean, you know, when I know we're human, I'm still anxious sometimes. - Oh, yeah. - It's 48 years old. And let me tell you what, hormones are stupid. And they seek up. - Thank you. - And it's like, what's happening? I'm like, sitting in my kitchen, why do I feel anxious right now? Literally. - Right. - Oh, well, that's because I'm 48. So, but you know, I mean, yeah, but in the past, you know, I think in the past, I would be stuck right where I was. I would be googling. I would be losing my mind. I'd be calling my parents and sobbing on the phone. And that's just not where I am anymore. I can be like, this feels really bad. And it's gonna be gone in five minutes. And it's gonna be fine. - Why? - And if it comes back, then I'll just get up and move. But it doesn't have to take you down. And I think that's so important for people who are stuck in that place where they're like, no, I literally can't. But just learning that you can choose your thoughts. And that when you start to say, oh, I don't like that thought, I'm gonna pay attention to how my body feels. You know, I changed everything for me. And that's really how I ended up here. And I love it. - I love you. First of all, you don't look 48. - I am. - But I love that because you really are such a good example of what the work it takes on yourself to live a peaceful existence. And peace is not the absence of the chaos. It is the steadfast knowledge that you have the tools, right there, that all the tools you need to be able to handle any of the turbulence that's thrown at you. And you can stay in a centered state of peace, no matter what, because you know, oh, this works. And I think that the way our brains confirm things so well for us, like, yes, it will confirm every nasty narrative that you create. If that's what you want. And I spent my entire time in that place. But now it has this beautiful ability to confirm all this love and all this peace and all this abundance and opportunity and prosperity. It confirms that every minute of every day, even though, you know, I'm starting my period. And I was bitchy yesterday morning and had to be like, I can't be nice, please, just please give me a minute alone. It's gonna be nice, you know? And I gave myself a hard time about that. Until I was like, honey, that was such an opportunity to show you your growth. Like, I got real life mirrored back to me what the transformation and transcendence because I couldn't have done that six months ago. Then like, please, please, I can't be nice. It would have just been really unkind stuff coming out of my mouth, you know? And believing that I didn't have any control over that because I didn't until I realized I did. I mean, if you're living your life on autopilot, of course, there is no control because that's what autopilot does. It gives you the ability to go hands free. But if you're gonna live your life hands free, there's nothing in there that says, okay, hands free equals lots of sweet thoughts and feelings. - I think it's exactly the opposite. I mean, your brain is going to think that's what it does. It thinks, and its whole job is just to keep you alive. So it's gonna think the scariest, most awful things that you can ever think of. So you're people pleasing. So that you are always doing everything you can to protect yourself and to do whatever it takes to stay in the community. You know, it's going to do that. But you have to drive it. Like if you have not told your brain where to go, it will drive you right off a cliff. - It sure will. And I was watching something you posted about your brain earlier. And I'm so glad that you just said that because it reminded me, I'm like, yes, because people don't think that there is science backing the things that we are talking about. And I'm like, sure, you think people are really woo woo place and I do. I'm pretty woo woo. But it is also very scientific what our brains are able and capable of doing. And yes, your brain is like never ending. So if it can, it will. But I like that you just said, you know, the people pleasing, the wanting to be belonging to a community, all those things. That's not just from trauma, just from messaging, just from programming. I love that you're saying also it's because your brain is made to survive. And those are literal survival skills. This is not something I have talked enough about, but I love this because it is so true. Your brain, it's just, it wants to keep you alive. But see this, that's why I preach so much about what you feed your subconscious. It will grow because if you're sitting there trying to be empathetic and putting yourself in somebody's situation and you're like, if that happened to me, no, baby, stop right there. 'Cause guess what? Your brain, now things that did happen to you and it's gonna give you all the same chemicals they're getting. Don't go there. You have to be right, you don't want that. But that's what our brains do. That's what they're capable of and it's beautiful, but you gotta hold onto that wheel a little bit tighter. - Yeah, we're always in real time, right? I don't think that we realize that our brains live in real time and that's how we can think of a sad story and make ourselves cry in the shower over nothing and then get out and be like, well, that was stupid. Why don't I just cry about that, it didn't even happen. We make stories, this is why we cry into shoe commercials or that Christmas coffee commercial because we're putting ourselves right in it. - Right in. - And it's really, if you could just picture like a tiny little caveman running the show inside your head, they have no idea, it's 2024, they have no idea that anything is dangerous or not dangerous. They just know if they get locked out of the cave in the winter, they'll die. If somebody doesn't like them, they'll die. If they fall in the fire, they'll die. I mean, everything, it's that dramatic. It's like really dramatic. - Yeah, it was, we just started updating the software. - Yes, and this is what I've been talking about so much is like how our brains weren't designed or developed to take in as much as we are, as rapidly as we are and is to take in the amount of change that happens every single day. Our brains are having trouble keeping up with that amount of evolution. And so I just believe we get these little brain glitches. You know, I don't even know how to describe that or go into detail about where. - That seems accurate, I know what you're talking about. - Yeah, you know, just like where it's like, what, it's so confused, so lost in that moment and whatever. And it's like, honey, you know, everything doesn't have to mean something. And for somebody like me who has never been a surface level person, I've always investigated. I've always, even when I wasn't allowed to talk back in my mind, I'd be like, well, fuck off. You know, whatever, I mean, just that rebel in me wanted to know more and while I did accept some things at face value later in life, I've really gone and investigated again. You know, and there's just so much. And you can't get bogged down in like, what you think is real because like you said, our brains are real, they're good at what they do. I mean, it's a whole function is survival. So if that's all it's got to do, well, we didn't tell it it had to be nice. Right. And I think that's really, you know, really going back to that idea of your brain's job is to keep you alive. And the reason it's thinking is to try and find all the ways that you could possibly be in danger or stay alive. And it does have a negativity bias. It's going to tell you the bad things. And again, if we go back to that idea, like you have to tell it what to think. And your brain, so even like people who want that science background, I remember when I was like years ago, when I was getting my teaching, like my teaching degree, then talking about we want to expose kids. We want kids to be exposed to things when they're really young because as teachers, we were able to say, if we could say, hey, you know what a horse looks like. And kids would be like, I know what a horse is. And we say, okay, well, a zebra is like a horse with stripes. Then you could automatically connect to something. I mean, it's like a really simple thing. It's just like a horse, but it has stripes. Boom, they can picture it in their head and they've made a connection. Well, your brain's always reaching out and trying to connect to things that are already knows. You got to show it what you want it to look for. And if you don't, it will connect to anything scary because you could die. - Absolutely. Yes. And people are not understanding this concept. They think it's got to be this super deep thing. Now, I will add the caveat that I do believe that you cannot control your brain if you're not controlling your feelings and you can't control your feelings if you're not expressing them or acknowledging them. So I want to say that. - For sure. - It is all synergetic, it all goes together. And when you can step into that place where you're like, oh, okay. I do have more control than I thought, but I loved what you said about telling it, what you want it to make those connections to. What prior learning do you want it to connect to? The part of you that hated yourself or now this new learning that you're creating in real time? I mean, I learned something new about myself every single day, but that's because I... The intention that if a thought comes in, I want to be curious about it. I want to know why that's okay. What was that about? I wonder, hmm, instead of, oh Lord Jesus, I knew I was going to try to pronounce it. - You know. - Right, yes. - I've had my bouts of anxiety too. It's weird because I have none now, but like I used to be an incredibly anxious person, but I also had a very, very, very, very, very, very, sensitive nervous system. And so, yes, it was so bad. Like, the sliders were right there with you on that. It is a rough thing when everything is like, either really amazing or really awful, and my tag is itchy and I'm going to die. And I'm like, yeah, like, yeah. - Yeah, because, well, in that state, you only feel really happy or really sad. - Everything coming out is really mad. So it's like, you know, just a couple of, whatever. But yeah, I guess I really haven't thought about the last time I felt anxious because it was a recent struggle, but it's like, you said where you just kind of one day like, I was feeling better and I wanted to know why. - Yeah. - Yeah. That's kind of where it was like, oh, that felt really good. It's weird. I haven't felt good in my whole life. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - And you're like, this is what it's like, huh? This is what are you talking about, huh? - Yeah. - You don't have to see how to do it. Let me start taking notes, so make sure that, you know, let's make sure to control it to death too, so that we can, you know, go there. - It's funny though, because there's no motivator like a teacher who's ready to move away from the classroom. - You are not joking. - I don't know if you know this, but I emergency certified as a teacher in 2017. - Yeah. - I'm going to remind you my backgrounds in social work. And so I was like, I want to be, I can't even look at you when I say this. I was like, I want to be the teacher that I wish Jake had, you know, just, and then day one, I was like, okay, listen you little bitch, you're not going to treat your teacher. - You know what I mean? Like, he said, I hated when you were a teacher because you never came outside and I'm like, damn right, I didn't because they deserve the medal, but he had ADHD and I was, you know, it was a thing. But, you know, very quickly I learned what being in the room actually was. And I was horrible at teaching, great at connecting, great at the social emotional stuff, horrible at teaching. And so that lasted for three years. And the third year was actually the year that COVID happened. So it wasn't a whole three years. And then I was like, you know, my skill set really probably belongs more as a school counselor. So then I did that for four years, which would have been fine. But, you know, navigating the education system. I always say this, education calls to the codependent. And-- - Oh God, that is so true. - And I came into that space with very good boundaries between my work and home life because I worked in hospice, like you have to, right? So I was real good at that. Do you know who doesn't like people to have boundaries, education? Because they want you to self-sacrifice to the point of your own demise. And it will be that if you let it. But I was really like captivated by the amount of people just hurting. That's why I really am trying to get more into the professional development space with teachers specifically to be like, baby, listen, I know you're tired of the trauma and form teaching. I know that, I know we all are, okay? Because they're not giving you any real tools. They're just saying, they'll sorry for them and then let it, let behavior slide, I get that. Let's heal you, let's heal you. And then you can identify in them when you see their wounding coming up, you're gonna know exactly what it is. And so yeah, maybe you won't take some things personally and you'll let them take an app when they need it and whatever. But otherwise, like being around that much in an unhealed state, nobody should do that to themselves. You know? - And you're right about the seeing things come up and like being able to recognize it. But then also, now you're trauma-informed. Now you know what's going on. You still don't have any way to deal with it. You still have to complete these standards and pass the test. And no, they cannot take an app because they have to. - Exactly, I was like, what is the point of it? - I was leaving resentment in me because you're grating me based off of a child who experienced the craziest thing ever this morning. Like what, nobody should be grated for this. - Right, well, I consequences. I mean, that's kind of a thing we need to teach. - That was the piece that I really felt like was missing was the consequences. 'Cause I'm like, yeah, we don't have to be as harsh about some of the things that they were about like in the, I mean in the 80s, listen, they were, they remained us. You know that. They were some human. - My kindergarten teacher criticized me in front of God and everybody for not putting something incorrectly. And that stood with me forever. But we still have to give people consequences when they, you know, cuss out their teacher and show that nobody has to listen. Anyway, I digress, but it was just funny when you said that you were, I was like, oh shit, I don't know how you got here. - Like, yeah, I mean, let me tell you I'm as a teacher. - I could have stopped right there, full stop. - Exactly, but see this, I'm so glad that it came up because this is such a key point. The friendships that I have lost from education, now some I haven't lost, but you know, we just don't see each other that much. And I love them dearly and we're gonna stay friends. But ones that I've lost is because they didn't recognize in themselves the ability to do what I did and say fuck this and get out. You know, like this is literally killing me. I mean, everything about the toxicity that, because it's just another example of the way women are pitted against each other. That's all it is. And I'm like, I don't want to play this game. I don't want to be a part of this. I don't want the drama. I don't want the gossip. I don't, I mean, if you're gonna be mad 'cause I said, no, that's fine, but I don't know why it has to go further than that. Be mad, don't be crazy. But everybody has the ability to do what you and I are doing to get your shit together and get out of an environment that's not serving you anymore. - Even if you have no other credentials right now and that's what I hate about this profession for education is that they feel so stuck because that's what their degree, they went and got more degrees in education, thinking that this next level, you know, that was gonna feel better. Honey, if not, I'm sorry, but I'm discouraging everyone from entering education. I'm always like, you know what else is a lot like that, but you'd be really good at it and it'd feel good. Therapy, go get the therapist. Do not do this, do not do this if you're, 'cause I have friends in school for, you know, education, please don't, please don't, it's not good. But how many people do you know that, I'm sure you had some when you were leaving and you were like, no, I'm good enough to do this. - I'm out. Yeah, the centers did you have, you know, I'm sure there was a couple. - I mean, it was one of those things where it was definitely, I think they were very supportive 'cause I think they knew that I was thinking I gotta go. Like, I am not the person you want here right now. - Yeah. - Like, I think they knew that, like, I think it's probably done, but it was, because my school was so small because it was not like a giant public school or anything like that, it was more of a like, I can come in and help out here there if I need to, but it was definitely, yeah. I mean, I was scared, I was full on admit, I was scared because it is secure. I mean, it is secure, you know, you're getting a paycheck, you know that you're always gonna have a job because there's always gonna be more kids coming in and there aren't enough teachers. So yeah, it was something. - Yeah, I know, yeah, very well. - Well, I really appreciate your time today. Thank you so much for agreeing to come on. - Thank you for having me. I so much appreciate it. This was so great. - I'm looking forward to more of your content. I really liked what I saw so far. - Well, I will keep putting it out. So yeah, if anybody wants to follow along, they can find me on Coach Megan DeVito. So I'm out there. - And I will make sure that I put that in the show notes, but if there's any other websites, anything else that you want on there, you just shoot me a DM and I'll make sure it's in the show notes. - Thank you so much, I appreciate it. This was so much fun. - Good, have a great day. - Thank you, you too, see you. - Thank you, bye-bye. - Bye. (upbeat music) ♪ Emotionally unavailable ♪ - Hey, hey, hey, what do you say? Listen, first and foremost, please make sure that you have provided this podcast with a five-star rating on whichever platform that you are listening. If you want to support the show, please rate, like, and share. Also like, comment, and share on any social media posts that you see for me on Instagram or Facebook or TikTok. Please follow the podcast Facebook, emotionally unavailable podcast. You can shop my foot online, store, or schedule a one-on-one with me, emotionallyunavailablepodcast.org. I'm offering what I'm calling non-traditional counseling, astrology readings, and tarot readings. And thank you so much for listening to the emotionally unavailable podcast. (upbeat music) ♪ Emotionally unavailable ♪ - Okay, how did you like that episode with me and Megan? I hope that you really liked it. I hope that you get something from this conversation. And if you're looking for any kind of coaching like that, you can find her information in the show notes. And, you know, thanks for going really well with me. Looking forward to some things coming up. And just excited about everybody healing. So that's all from me today. I love you guys so much. Appreciate your listening, sharing, and doing all the things. And until next time, let's all just keep swimming. (upbeat music) - I-N-D-E-P-E and cook.