Complying with ADA requirements (and their associated costs) are a concern for community-minded independent restaurateurs. There are also ADA requirements for Websites. Some opportunistic attorneys also use this as a possible revenue source. With a dash of humor Chef Andrew refers to this practice as “drive-by suits.” He now offers his informed perspective.
SoCal Restaurant Show
Ask the Chef with Co-Host Chef Andrew Gruel of Calico Fish House
This is your captain speaking. I'm Arna yetan, captain of All in America Line, Emma's Master. You're listening to the so-called restaurant show on AM 830 KLAA. And welcome back. Sadly, it is the concluding segment of the SoCal restaurant show, but the better news is, is we're going to be right back here with you next week, Saturday morning from 10 AM until 12 noon, right here on AM 830 KLAA, the home of Angels Baseball. And you can also catch us on the AM 830 Angels app. I'm Andy Harris, the executive producer and co-host to the show. Thanks for sharing part of your Saturday morning with us. We definitely appreciate it. And at this point, the promised, my colleague, Chef Andrew Grohl of the Calico Fish House. Chef Andrew, good morning and welcome back. Oh, it's great to be back. Thank you, Andy. Good morning. Chef Andrew, I was just in the Finger Lakes region of New York this last week for the International Food Wine and Travel Riders Association annual conference. And I had some unbelievable cornmeal crusted catfish. Is that something that's sometimes in your portfolio? Oh, yeah, definitely. Catfish is tough in California, though. It's funny. It's a neat coast thing, a southern fish per se. And like I said, east coast, you get it in that fresh water up there. California, it's much more difficult to sell. However, when we do, we go through it, but we make sure that we let everybody know ahead of time we're doing it, get them in, get them out. Yeah, got it. But again, you know, kind of a nice surprise and, you know, not something that I see a lot of locally. So I appreciate that insight. Chef Andrew, we had an inquiry from a small independent restaurateur that was wondering if you could give any advice about ADA requirements and compliance. And we know you're always up on everything. And I think the first thing is to explain what ADA compliance is. And I know there are national regulations, but also California typically ups the ante. So is there more that comes just from California? Kind of clear all of that up as we start to move forward on this, because I know it's not a simple issue. Yes, the American Disability Act, which basically states that every business needs to be able to provide access to their products, their goods, their services, all of the above to anybody regardless of whether they have a disability or not. And I'm pretty sure, and don't quote me on this, however, I think it came into effect somewhere around like 1990, 1985, 1990. I bring that data because that's very important. You need to consider, as we talk about this, that when was the internet invented, if you will, or when did it become mainstream? It was after 1990. So what's interesting about the ADA is that people think it is specific to just things like ramps. If you're in a wheelchair, ramps to get in, the height of counters, the height of access in the bathroom, making sure that the wheelchair can turn around. That's why you always have to have kind of these egress opportunities and looking at the spacing as you're building up the restaurant. But more so, and recently, it's been about website accessibility. And that has been state specific. So effectively, as they have demanded the ADA based on new information, new inventions, innovations, certain states will take on a tougher and harsher stance by way of the local court. So if you file a lawsuit and you might file it in a specific district, and it's very successful in that district, well, then that's a certain precedent, you can now file another lawsuit in that same district, even if it doesn't apply specifically to that district, especially with the web stuff. So California oversees a lot of this on a local level, and they can push back. So for example, there was, and let me state this too, just generally, the ADA stuff is great because everybody should have equal access and businesses should not be discriminating based on, you know, only serving a particular type of customer. However, trial attorneys, and they call these drive-by lawsuits, in many cases, what the legal system is, is that a lot of these laws get taken advantage of, and they do. They basically file these drive-by lawsuits where they'll file thousands and thousands of lawsuits on behalf of one plaintiff, and they shake you down for just settlement money. So there was never an incident, there was never a request to fix something, it's strictly a, it's a shakedown. And that's what's happened with the ADA stuff, and, you know, some states push back and reject the lawsuits, and you can't file these lawsuits, and in other states, they're slower to do so. So actually in California, like in many cases, they've been slower on this, so people are filing these lawsuits in California, and they're, you're seeing most of it now is with the ADA, with, I'm sorry, with the website accessibility stuff. So if your website isn't coded to be visually, if you're visually impaired, when your website isn't properly coded, and it can go back in time too, they can use the like way back machine. What they do is that they file these like hundreds of lawsuits on behalf of one visually impaired plaintiff, and the businesses don't, in order, you know, they don't have the money to fight it, so they just settle for a smaller number than what they otherwise would have to pay out. And they know the businesses are going to settle. So if you settle for $10,000, and you file lawsuits against 200 businesses, you know, you're making a ton of money, and it's on one plaintiff who never accessed any of the websites. They're strictly just like a placeholder on behalf of these trial attorneys to go after businesses. So it's become kind of a mafia, so style, shaped down by the trial attorneys, unfortunately. California is pushing back in certain areas, although, you know, generally, I think it's something that everybody needs to look out for. Trade associations help with this stuff, but making sure your website is up to speed is really the answer. Otherwise, there's always going to be somebody in there, you know, poking at the holes. Chef Hanyu, can you explain a little bit about, for a restaurant, what makes their website ADA compliant? Because I understand the nitty gritty of this is sometimes it even has to do with the background color you have. I mean, it seems to be a little nebulous. It is nebulous, and that's the problem, and they don't make it clear in California, either as to exactly how it has to look. So, you know, like you'll code the website, and there's the colors of the website, but then also, for example, the text on an image. So when you go into, like, read a newspaper article online, and there's text under the image, or if you click on the image, sometimes there's descriptor text, well, that text has to be very specific as to how it's describing it, because that's somebody who's visually impaired, it's describing the image. So, the website effectively has to describe every element to the person who's visually impaired, and if your code is broken, even just a broken code is enough, and because these are drive-by lawsuits, you can't say, "Oh, well, I apologize, I'll fix it, I'll be better," right? There's no opportunity to resolve it, which is why you know that this is just a scam, in many cases, because it'd be like, "Okay, look, we messed up, we're sorry, sorry for the inconvenience, you know, we'll settle specific to this one case," but they file these kind of class actions, and there's all this manipulative ways in which the lawyers can try and extract more money from you, and it's the same effect as Capaga, which as we've talked on the pastors, the public attorney's general's act, which has been taking businesses out, five billion dollars to trial attorneys over the past four years in small businesses, majority of which are restaurants, so it's the same exact thing, and you know, it's the unfortunate nature of, once again, in conclusion, a good something that started off good, you know, the intention then gets taken advantage of by evil actors, and it ruins the original good. Now, the settlements that you're talking about with, you know, some of these drive-by lawsuits that are against restaurants, for a small independent restaurant, you know, to kind of make this thing go away, is $10,000 a reasonable number, because boy, that's a hardship for a small restaurant. Well, I'll tell you what, that was, for me, we got hit with multiple in 2017 or 18, and the settlement was $10,000 or $15,000, and at the time, that was hard. I mean, we got hit on like our, we're giving each restaurant, which was low in sales, so you figure if you're, you're doing a half a million in sales, $10,000 to $15,000, that's your entire profit, in many cases and restaurants. I'll tell you now, it's probably even higher, just based on inflation and the cost of everything going up, it might be 20 or 25,000. We haven't gotten hit because I'm like a vault on what we do, and making sure that we're not vulnerable to this, but that's just on the ADA stuff. The pocket stuff, the average on the pocket stuff, is upwards of like $200,000 to $300,000. I went to an event, an industry event, in every single restaurant owner I talk to, from businesses, as small as, as small as Ken Seat businesses, all the way up to large multi-unit corporate concepts. Every single one of them have been hit by a pocket suit in California, and the average, by talking to everybody, was between a half a million and a million on the settlement. Chef Andrew, food for thought, we're going to pick up the conversation next week, and we're going to be talking about whether this idea that both presidential candidates are embracing no tax on tips, is this really good, and are there ramifications there? So stay tuned. Food fans, that's our show. A tip of the talk to my co-host, Chef Andrew Grull. My thanks to Charles here in technical excellence at Angel Stadium, also to the behind the scenes Adam Bell on social media. We're right back here with you next week with a brand new show. Coming up next, Alan Byer, Dr. In The Dugout. Good eating, and be safe, and we're proudly presented by Melissa's World Variety Produce.