Two Peas in a Podcast

Episode 100 - Jake Fleshner

Jake Fleshner is the Co-Founder and Co-CEO of The Nucleus Network - a networking company that works with founders, investors, influencers, brands, agencies, and tech companies to utilize the power of warm introductions for growth. He got his start at University of Michigan by co-founding Space Trade, which partnered small businesses for cross promotion in a localized market. Jake had the pleasure of working with Gary Vaynerchuk at VaynerMedia and later spent 5 years as the Chief Revenue Officer for David Meltzer Enterprises.

To connect with Jake directly please reach out to:

https://www.thenucleusnetwork.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jake-fleshner-70477446/

Duration:: 38m
Broadcast on:: 09 Sep 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

Jake Fleschner, entrepreneur. I mean, hell of a story for how young you are. I'm so so excited to have you on the show. So first and foremost, thank you so much for making the time to be on and sharing your story with our audience. It's an honor to be here. Thank you for having me. It's both ways for sure, Igor. So it's an honor and a pleasure to be on your show. So thanks for having me. I love this. And let's take you to the very beginning. Tell me about the first business that you built while you were still in grad school. Yeah, for sure. I will definitely fill you in on that. Going all the way back, I think in this entrepreneurial world that we live in, I think a lot of people just think about their career. But going back to like friends and family and life, our group in Los Angeles, California, that's where I was born raised, always have to give a shout out to where I was born. I have two siblings. I'm the youngest of three, Alex and Nikki. And yeah, I mean, growing up, I've always loved sports. I've loved business and I've loved building businesses. That's really what I'd like to do. I was kind of the kid in the summer camp selling the lemonade and selling the ice cream and figuring out how to evolve and to provide value to people with what they were looking for. So that's a little bit more about little Jake and who I used to be. But now I went to University of Michigan talking about like the sports and business front. I was a major in sport management in the school of kinesiology there. I wasn't used to the cold and wasn't ready for it, but we just figured it out. Like the rest of us, LA and Miami and hot weather people do it in Michigan. We just figured it out. And while I was there, my junior year of college or my sophomore year actually, my brother called me one day and he said, hey, I have this brilliant business idea. I think we should do it. And I said, what is it? And he said, you know, we always walk into our favorite local stores in LA and we always want them to cross promote with our other favorite stores in LA, like in our local community in neighborhood. I said, yeah, of course, like that happens to me all the time. Like I want to know and I want to be able to get discounts to all my favorite places in LA, but all over the world. And he said, that's exactly what we should build. So we came up with this concept, came up with this idea and we called it space trade, spade and short. And basically what we did was we started in Ann Arbor in Michigan where I was, where I was going to school, we got, we got together a bunch of ambassadors. Honestly, it was a lot of just my friends that came on board to help us target local businesses in the neighborhood. We went to them, we said, Hey, we want to put ads inside your store. And when you walk in, we built an app, you would download an app, scan an actual print advertisement, and then get a discount to the other stores in the neighborhood. So we had 42 stores on board. And it was, it was pretty, pretty crazy. While being college, learning a business like that, we had 10 people that were helping us. And eventually it was time to sell the business. I actually went to Australia and started abroad there. And while I was there, the team that was running, the company was like, Hey, I think it's time we should sell. And we got an offer from the University of Michigan and then upselling it to them. And I was like my starting entrepreneurship. So that's, that's where, that's what Michigan was like. It was incredible. I love that story so much. And for so many different reasons. And one of the reasons is this idea of door-to-door salesmen. I don't know why there is so much flack and so much negative, like spin on a person who just shows up and has a conversation with business owners. But what was it like being 20? And I mean, pitching being part of something bigger to a lot of people who were successful business owners already and people who might have just been looking at you as a kid. Yeah. And I think that's a, that's a bigger theme. The door door, I'm totally on the same page. What door door sales was teaching me as I was working with Spade was that no one really knows anything. I think a lot of people that say, I know everything, I know this, I know that. I think it's very narrow minded and ego is getting in their way. But as a 21, as a 20 year old walking into some major stores in this local area in Ann Arbor and pitching them our idea and saying, Hey, I don't know what I don't know, but we think you should do this. That's ultimately, I think what decided that these small business owners want to work with us with these kids that didn't really know what they were doing, but they were open and saying, I don't know. So that's like a bigger lesson in life. I think when you don't know something, just say, I don't know versus pretending to know. It's actually funding our first business. We actually got on board. It's a company called Bivwack in Ann Arbor. If you go to, if you go to Michigan, you definitely know what it is. But we walked in and the owner of the business, it was myself and someone else on the team, he said, there's no such thing as a free lunch. And I didn't really know what that meant. So we kind of took it as like, okay, are we supposed to like buy lunch? Like what are we supposed to do? So the next day we actually brought him lunch because we thought he was like, was like a joke. Now we finally learned the term what that actually means. So I think, I think that's a bigger philosophy on door door sales may just show up and figure it out. Yeah. Yeah, I love that because even with the original idea, the one theme that, I mean, crosses into every single thing that you touch is this idea of, Hey, when people work together, they just come up with better ideas. They are able to provide value to each other. What was it like coming into a lot of businesses who had the mindset of everyone around me is competition and trying to change their mindset into, Hey, you can actually collaborate and work with other businesses to drive business to you? Yeah, I'm curious for you, Igor, what does competition mean to you? I think competition is just a flawed idea because a lot of the time, the same people who are working in the same space as me, I just think of them as people who first and foremost inspire me to want to be better. And second of all, like people who are thinking about the world the same way should just always drive the message of the things that we're doing, having value and being more positive to everyone around us. Love completely on the same page in line. I think competition, look at the sports person, look at the best athletes in the world. Why do you think they got to where they're at? It's not because they're competing against themselves, of course, but they're competing against the people around them to be better. And I think healthy competition, which to me is every type of competition, is needed to drive you and propel you forward with whatever you're doing. Yeah, I love that answer. And I love the exact path that you were going on to because now I'm going to drag you even further into it. When you think about competition being your best and what the general outlook on life is, when I ask you about what success looks like, what does success mean to you, Jake? Yeah, success also is another one. I think it changes based on the day, I think, like a successful day to some could be, hey, I just woke up and at the time I wanted to wake up, I did my routine, I talked to some people, I closed some deals, I met great people, but it changes, it always changes. So to me, success is always changing and evolving. But today, what is it? September 6th, Friday, September 6th, I think success today is putting the right people in the right room and connecting great people to great people, because there's three avenues of life actually learned this last week. You can either, you're either born in purpose, on purpose or for purpose. And today, I believe that we're born for purpose. So you don't have a purpose in life until you find it yourself. And I think success to me today is finding my purpose. Yeah, I love that message so much because one of the most meaningful quotes that I ever heard is this. The definition of hell is coming to the end of your life and meaning a version of you who just said yes. It's like your own hell is seeing the potential of everything you could have accomplished. And in that moment, realizing that you got bogged down by responsibilities, by bills, by not taking a chance on enough opportunities and seeing that person who you could have been. Talk to me about after college, what the crazy opportunity that came your way, because the guy you ended up working with was not a known name. And in the world that we live in today, it's a big deal. But the opportunity that came your way was like, what is this and why would I do it? Yeah, definitely happened to answer that question, but I wanted to flip it back on you, Igor. I know you just said that quote would definitely resonate with me. What do you think about like the yes versus the no? Because it's so funny, on social media, you turn around and a lot of people are like, learn to say no, like learn to say no, just continue to say no to the wrong things. But then a lot of people on social media think more to say say yes to everything, dive into opportunity and never look back. What are your thoughts on both sides and what do you really mean towards? Yeah, I think the first step is finding the things that are the most valuable to you. So like when I got in tune with who I am as a person, I went, what is the number one thing that's the biggest priority to me? And that is my family. So at the end of the day, every single decision that I make starts and ends with, what is it that will bring me more time with me, my wife and the family that we're building? From there, it comes into things that I'm the most scared of. So if someone reaches out with an opportunity that's like, oh my God, I feel uncomfortable. I feel like I'm going to fail. That's the first thing I say yes to, because if there is this level of fear, there is this level of uncertainty, that just means that there is a good opportunity there. And a lot of the time, the nose are the easy ones where you go. No, I just know that doesn't work because I've tried it before, and that doesn't work. But if it's something that's the unknown, I just go like, that one is super interesting to me. How about you, Jake? How do you go about those? Yeah, yeah. The unknown, I think I'm definitely diving into the yeses with the unknown. There's obviously, we're both relatively younger compared to the rest of the world, but we have a lot left to experience, and there's a lot I haven't done yet. So ideally, in this world, I want to try as many things as possible. So I'm saying yes to the things that I haven't done yet, and saying no to the things that I've done before, and know that they're not right for me. So yeah, and as a business owner, like yourself, you really have to learn to say no, because if you're saying yes to everything, there's a lot of distractions out there, you'll eventually never move forward with your goals and dreams. Yeah, let me ask you what seems like a stupid question on surface, but is a much more loaded question. How easy is it for you to say no? Not easy at all. How about you? I find it pretty easy to the things where I know that they won't work. I just, for whatever reason, I call it a superpower. But whenever something comes across my table as an opportunity for something that I've either done before and I did not enjoy, or think that I don't think will push me into being a better person, I have, even if it's coming from someone I care about, I have no problem going. That's just not the right thing for me. Do you say not the right thing for me now, or do you say ever? No. No, okay. Yeah, I like being present, and what I find a lot of people do is either get too caught up in the past or think too much about the future. Like where is it that I want to be? And it's awesome because the conversation we had right before the podcast is all about being in the present and going, hey, I have no idea where I'm going. I have no idea exactly what's going to come out of this. I just know that the feeling that I get when I do this thing feels like I'm moving in the right direction. And I don't know if it's going to take a week, a month, a year, a decade, but that direction feels like a rather positive direction, and I'm having an influence on other people. Yeah, that hit the nail on the head. For you, Igor, with your time at Goldman, I don't know if this podcast gets to hear your story enough, but for your time at Goldman and what you did before this, what was your yes, no tolerance compared to what it is now? I think different, different because at the start of my career, I was so, so worried about money, and money came quicker than I ever thought that it would come. And at that time, it was just so hard to say no to things, knowing that there's some money on the line. And even if I'm sacrificing the things that I value, like I have these distinct memories with my wife that we talk about today, where I just go like, hey, remember that trip in Italy where we were last year? And I was like going through cafes, trying to find Wi-Fi and being so freaked out about answering phone calls and getting back to people like that pressure on just a human level of like, I just have somebody who's watching over me the entire time. And someone who oversees my life is weird element that a lot of people just don't think about. Have you found yourself in the same situations where you went? I don't know if that's necessarily worth it. I it's exactly the situation I went through. Honestly, everyone always said they have their like aha moment and everything that they do. And I had my aha moment exactly the same time and purpose that seems like you had yours. You were running around Italy and thinking about cafes and finding Wi-Fi. I was in Europe as well. I was with 30 my friends actually somewhere in Europe on a boat and I turned my phone off for four days. At the time, I had three phones, one for myself, one for what my boss who I used to work for and then another one just like as a business personal phone. And I was looking at the sunset with actually my now business partner Michael. And it was one of those aha moments where I said, I think I'm constantly thinking about trying to impress other people and trying to get back to people with things that aren't necessarily important for the now, the present, like we're talking about. And that's not who I want to be because we only live this life once. And you have to go out and do what you think is right. So I came back right after that trip and I decided it was time and now here we are today. And I'm running a business with that person I was sitting right next to and we had the same moment. So it's super interesting. I love this conversation and having conversations like these because the route that I thought that we would be going down one, it would be the one where we're showing you all for the specific things that you do and name dropping and having some of the discussion around how awesome it is to work for great organizations. But it sounds like the experience that you had is very similar to mine. In a sense of, I worked for the best bank in the world. At the time that I worked there, for whatever reason, people were a lot more impressed with the name and the brand and the things that came out of it. While in the back of my mind, I just went, I just don't give a shit. Like, I love this. I love the work that I do. I love my team. I care about the clients, but I don't care if my clients are on the news every week. It just feels good to me to do the good work. Did you find yourself when you were in that spotlight of being attached to some of the biggest people in the world that you just felt that something wasn't right? Yeah, I think the grass is always greener. You've definitely heard that before. The grass was and is definitely very green. I think, especially in the world that we live in now, having a brand credibility, not just as like a Goldman or like a company name, but an individual personal brand. I've been around many of the world's best, many of the world's most famous, many of the world's most follow people online on social media on Instagram. At the end of the day, everyone is just a person. Everyone is just going through the same stuff, of course, in different ways. Some want bigger magnitude, some want smaller. But what I thought was fascinating was that I think that the people that are ultimately the most successful are ultimately the way that we're thinking, what we're talking about right now, that don't just get so caught up in the weeds of the day to day, but can actually think about, "Okay, here's where I am. Here's the people that are closest to me and them surrounded by. Mind joining my time. Mind really enjoying what I am doing. And if you're not, and if they're not, you just have to adapt. And I think the people that get caught in this rat race are the ones that are just happy doing the day to day, continuing to just be consistent in their routines that they don't necessarily like or enjoy doing with the people that they're doing it with, and just stay forever." And I think this entrepreneurial mindset that we're talking about right now is what eventually leads to these massive corporations, massive companies, massive partnerships, and also massive networks, which is what we're really trying to build. For sure. And you used a really, really heavy turbine here. And this is the one that I really like challenging and understanding what people mean when they say this. You used happiness, like you weren't happy. I wasn't happy in my prior job. What does happiness mean to you, Jake? Yeah, it's the classic. Have you seen the movie The Pursuit of Happiness? Have you seen it? So Chris Gardner, I've been very lucky to spend time with him. He is the most beautiful rooftop penthouse in Chicago. It's like a 360 degree penthouse. And he said a quote when I was there a couple years ago. And he said, "Of course, I was in the movie The Pursuit of Happiness, but is it really the pursuit of happiness or is happiness the pursuit?" And it made me think, like, that makes a lot of sense. I think happiness is in the pursuit. It's the journey of getting to where you eventually think you should be and where you want to be. And it's so much fun getting there. Once you're there, like you've seen with a lot of people that have a lot of these successes and successful careers in all the cars and the houses, whatever they want, they look back and they say the best part about it was getting there, not actually being there. So that's what I'm thinking on the happiness from. Yeah. And I love that message so much because I resonate so much with it. Because what I find is a lot of people talk about happiness as like, "I will be happy when I have A. I will be happy when I have a million dollars." And then you spend 20 to 30 years chasing after this thing. And once you get there, you just go, "Hey, this is just a number on a page. Hey, this is just a house." That's an empty house when there is no incredible family where there's not enough shared memories because I spend my entire day at the office. And what I found myself being late 20s and early 30s, I found myself listening to these stories of people with a lot of money telling incredible stories of the things they own, but not necessarily the experiences they've gotten to share with their family. And I went, "Hey, I wouldn't much rather just enjoy having that sunset moment on a boat somewhere. I would much rather just have two days or a week or two weeks where I get to sit with my wife on a beach, talk about nothing, and just look at the sun and enjoy our time." So when I think about happiness, I always think about this. Getting in tune with the thing that matters to you the most and disconnecting from the rest of the world to make sure that I find it. And I know that... Go ahead. Let me say, do you struggle with disconnecting now or do you have you really found a proper balance between it? I think the tools that I have in place are amazing. And a lot of them are things like meditation, sauna and like cold plunge are working out and things that just take you outside of your mind because they suck so much. I know you do some of the same. So tell me about the tools that you use that really help with getting out of the rat race and going, "Hey, I don't have to answer this email like right now. I can get to it in two hours. I can get to it first thing tomorrow morning." I need your tips on meditating. That's the first thing I'm in today because I've tried it and I still can't do it. I will soon, but I think I just need the right the right instruction guidance to get there. But yeah, sauna, ice bath, all the above, fully believe in it wholeheartedly as much as possible. We actually host ice bath events in New York City here on our friend's rooftop. We're actually doing one on Monday. We've done about six of them so far. We'll just bring cool, innovative, smart people that want to help in a nice bath at 7.30 in the morning and so on. And that's the height of my week whenever we do it. So those little things I think are really important to your team with what you're doing. I think it's more important. Of course, it's great for your body and health, but it's more about disconnecting from your phone. So in a sauna, when I see people enter saun trees, you see this too with their phones and like, what are you doing? You know, I know. Just take the time to go in there and like think your own thoughts. Yeah. What is it that is so important to you knowing that your business revolves around technology around making connections to have enough time where you just sit with yourself and sit with your mind because that's a really, really hard balance to find. Definitely. Yeah, it is all about connecting each other and we're really making a conscious stride right now to host more events in person because as much as it's amazing to connect people. We didn't necessarily talk about a nucleus yet, but I think we'll think people have a good understanding of what we do and how we offer it, but we just connect people. That's really what our business is. We're the business of making warm introductions to people that we know on both sides, just for them to connect. Of course, maybe they'll do business together, but then the day we just want to connect really good people to get people just to be friends and see what's what will happen. But going back to the in-person activations. Last night we hosted an incredible event with Rowe, which is our banking partner and also incredible company finance partner that is mainly focused on New York entrepreneurs and business owners here. We had 16 people most of the time people weren't on their phones and just connecting face to face. Little things like that where we don't necessarily need to be on our phone and making text intros and what's at intros and calls. We can actually be in person and see the power of networking and connections happen in real life. Tell me about the difference because there is such a giant difference between meeting someone online and having some type of an email connection with someone and then meeting them in a room where the two of you just get two hours, three hours to just disconnect, shoot the shit in person and talk and really find out what that person is about. Yeah, I mean I think it's post COVID especially. I think pre-COVID we were definitely prone to just get on the plane, get on the plane and figure it out and meet people. And now we're starting to get back into that. I think of course Zoom is and Zoom and Riverside and all these platforms are amazing for what we're able to achieve. But when you're with someone and be able to shake someone's hand and say hey I actually have met you in person and I can actually understand your story based on you as a person. I think it's it's night and day. What do you think? I think the face-to-face connection is where you really find out what the person is about because it's super super easy to draw whatever you want and paint the picture of this perfect human being who doesn't have any flaws. And the moment that you get in a room with someone you get to feel the energy that they bring because there are a lot of people when things and I'm very very careful about how I talk about this because I say when things go bad because we both know that in the world regardless of what your job is things always go bad. There's always a mistake. There's always something that you have to figure out. And in those moments you get to see exactly who the type of person you're in the room with is. It's either there are polite, driven to find a solution and work well with other people or sometimes they end up in this camp of like man I really really loved hanging out with that woman or man and like chatting but at the same time I watched how they how they connected with their team and I just got a bad feeling where the way that they run it is not about everyone together but it's really all about them. How do you make sure that the people who enter the nucleus network and people who you are connecting are about making the community better rather than just getting something without returning anything in return? Definitely. I love that question by the way and I love your answer also. I think the classic term like social media is a highlight reel is prone to exactly what you're saying. You see people can post whatever they want online but you don't actually be behind the scenes and I've been grateful to see a lot of these very successful people behind the scenes. Most of them are amazing with their teams and the people around them but they're definitely our sum that are not what you portray them to be so I think it's important to see that the back end also but to answer your question for the nucleus network when people are building communities I think they have set guidelines of okay here's who can join here's who we want to be around and this is the ideal ICP of who we want to bring into our community and for us we're still dialing it in but right now what we're looking at is something that doesn't have to do with your business the numbers around what you do it's you're open-minded we think that's extremely important in today's economy in today's world you effectively communicate because of course communication is key you never know what you want or what you need until you can actually communicate it the last one is that you would love your product or your service or what you're doing like deeply passionate about what you're doing because if you're not and we want to make introductions for you or to you you're not going to be able to provide the person that we're introducing you with the passion that they need to kind of fall in love with you and fall in love with the product and continue to want to extend the friendship with you so those are the three ideal people or traits that we're looking to work with yeah and this is one of the most important things that I just appreciate so so much about you is that you understand the power of network at the same time you understand the business behind it and that at the end of the day there is some type of sale service or benefit that needs to happen on both sides so let me ask you this really really important question what is it about social media influencers people who have a giant following that a lot of the time just makes them so so bad at going hey here is my call to action here is the thing that I need you to do to make sure that I can give you the best benefit of the knowledge of the product of the resources that I have it's not easy it's definitely not easy because especially with social media influencers they spent all their time which is extremely valuable potentially more than money all their time all their friends and family's time everyone around them to build this audience of people that they don't necessarily know it's if you have 50,000 followers plus or even even less than that 20,000 let's say that's a lot of people that are consistently seeing you online that on the other end as the influencer person that has those following you don't know who they are you don't know their story you don't know where they come from so I think the biggest challenge that people have is not understanding their audience and their community backtracking it to say okay here's who these people are and why they follow me and why they interact with my content and then give them the offer for what they're actually looking for and I think you see this very frequently the the person puts out the offer or sale or something to actually try to monetize on what they're doing and it flops and then they get discouraged and they say okay maybe I'll even stop posting content I'll go out and I'll go get a job and I'll go do something else that first call to action has to be extremely important and you really need to understand your community on a one-to-one basis and not a one-to-many so that's just what I've seen be a big problem and challenging it's funny I was actually on the show yesterday and they asked a question about Gary V and because I used to work with Gary V and still are very close to that whole group and friend group but Gary actually goes in and he comments on people's instagrams and DMs them also for himself look as a person if you think about someone with you know 150 million followers across every channel people say how do you see a time to do that it's because he really wants to understand his audience to realize what his biggest value is to the market and eventually what he can sell to the market which is brilliant in my opinion yeah and to me it's crazy that people in the social media space specifically don't do this because hey these 20,000 people who are following you want to look like you sound like you do something like you you have the resources and the knowledge to be able to help them with it like there is just the middle step that you're missing and where I find so much value in the nucleus network specifically is helping people get the resources they need to succeed now when I ask you long term of what is your vision for the nucleus network what is it that you see a year from now five years from now and 10 years from now yeah so why we really built this company which will help lead into the future is what I was doing previously in my past and what I've seen a lot of people do is it's I'd say it's like the meetings to have meetings effect but it's deeper than that it's when you get to know someone and meet someone I think everyone has a need at that specific time and a one so if you can narrow down when you hop on a business call or eat someone a person and say hey what do you really need right now and what are you looking for like do you need leads do you want to just connect with someone that you can go on family vacation with for example like you really never know um and why we built this network is to just be like that one stop place or person that you can go to and say hey today I woke up I need a graphic designer I need you know I want to go to the Super Bowl VIP access you know anyone that can help me there so that's exactly why we built this company to just be that one stop shop and where we see it continuing to evolve is to make it much easier for people to be able to ask us those questions and for us to be able to put them in touch with people that we trust that we've vetted that are credible that are open-minded that effectively communicate and of course love their product and their passion about it as quickly as possible so hopefully by the end of 2025 we'll have an easier process by the 2030 we'll have an easier process and by the time 2040 comes around it'll be streamlined and it's very accessible and easy so Igor like for you if you're looking for incredible podcast guests for example we uh versus us texting and getting on the phone which I love to do we'd be able to meet a person and we have 50 guests in your inbox already ready to go just to make it as easy as possible yeah I love it because the vision and the intent behind it is so so positive and I mean it is moving in the right direction and it is so so encouraging to see you be so successful at it and I know a lot of the success stems from the experiences that you've had so let's just take a moment to reflect on some of the craziest things that you've done now you already talked about working for Gary V so let's explore that one first tell me about the nicest and most important and influential experiences that you've had working on the team yeah that's a that's a great question uh it's great it was it definitely feels like it wasn't that long ago it was it was long ago um it's probably seven six seven years ago but I think the best experience I had working there which I guess wouldn't be like a common answer but I remember at the time I was actually an intern working with with Gary and I think one day I was wearing like basketball shoes to to the job at Hudson Yards the beautiful office over there and uh Tyler who's on Gary's team came up to me said hey do you hoop like do you play basketball I said yeah I play basketball it's like we have a game on Tuesdays and Thursdays at the Portland Creek YMCA all the Vayner guys all the whole team comes and plays basically it's 11 people we'd love for you to come and me like as a you know college kid intern I'm like I don't really belong there Gary plays in the games too and AJ and all these incredible people he's you've entered Chuck and I decided to go and I became kind of a a common person that started playing these games throughout the summer and I even play in the games now so I've just stayed in touch and in the zone and in the rhythm and now when I walk around and when I was walking around during the internship it wasn't just like hey like how was your night like just very basic questions it's like hey do you see the NBA game last night or like let's play let's play ball or let's play who's coming up so I think that was the most influential part of working with Gary but then also just to caliber people that were coming in he has you know rappers and billionaires and entrepreneurs always coming through the office and to be around those people I think was very very important to my success and I think this is a really really important lesson especially to the younger people who listen to our podcast is just this sometimes in life you just have to say yes and go the people who I choose to surround myself are the people who I'm going to look like and if they are billionaires and if they're people who do incredible work they will just teach lessons to me and a little bit of that greatness will hopefully rub off on me now at the time that you were leaving the team how far did you come and what were some of the most important lessons that you still carry with you today yeah on the lessons front I think it's you never know where someone's going to be you never know if someone you're for example in interning with will eventually run the company right if someone that you're around will eventually need something that you can help them with and you're able to get them a job or help them and connect them with the right people it's a it's a hundred year game it's not like a one-year game for the short term so I think Gary preaches that and he's so good at it and then when I leveraged working with Gary to eventually work with with David what I did for five years it was the same type of thing I'm even seeing it come for wish and now actually people who I talk to who who interned for me my first first intern actually I ever got working with with Dave is now working in the sports world and he actually brought me an opportunity which is just a full circle so you really never know who you're going to talk to and who you're going to interact with where they'll get I love that message I love that message because it's a message of persistence it's a message of treating people well and I have one final question that I'm gonna hit you with for the day and it's this one you've been around a lot of successful people you've been around a lot of rich and powerful people if there is some advice that you could give to a young entrepreneur today who just keeps having small miss wings where they're like I don't know if this is worth it anymore I just get so discouraged by getting knows when I think I should be getting yeses it feels like today we both know that there are a lot of missed calls there are a lot of bad meetings in order for you to get to the good ones and for you to actually align some success but along the route it's always discouraging it's always just a pain getting to the next step how do you and what are the lessons that you would want to hear when you were younger to know that this is a journey and this is a long road and this is not something that's going to come overnight want to ask the same question you have to answer it first but it's finding someone take time but find someone that sits in the situation you want to be in and find a way to just be around them so if you have to show up at their office and knock on their door and ask them for advice and to follow them and shadow them go do that that's the first one the second one is this is I guess it would at some would say it's counterintuitive but don't be too obsessed with yourself or your product or service you're you're building a company because when you're when you're pitching especially nowadays what is what do people care about the most they care about talking about themselves so if you're pitching a company or if you're pitching yourself and you only talk about yourself you will not get to the next level because the other person you're talking to wants to be involved in the conversation also so that's the second one and then the last one I know you only asked for one but the last one is to just put yourself out there more you know I think in particular because we live in a digital age utilize LinkedIn that's how in my opinion you can put yourself out there the most in my opinion it's the most powerful platform especially as a young entrepreneur post on LinkedIn reach out shoot people to DMs ask for five-minute calls then ask for 50-minute calls and just get on the phone people you want to be like so those are the three I'm curious about you Igor I love each and every one of those three and thank you first and foremost for sharing those because I think there is value and there is I mean this long path of not seeing the goal that just makes it almost feel scary and I want to echo back to this original idea of small wins and rather than looking at the 10-year journey and looking at that hey I want to get to a million subscribers or I want to sell a hundred thousand units look at the small steps in between because those are just so much easier to climb those are so much easier to get to and in the days where things don't shake out your way because we both know that there are days when it just feels like every single meeting was a miss and things don't play out the way that you wish they did it's important to remember that hey there is tomorrow today might have sucked but there is a new opportunity each and every single day that each one of us possesses to chase their happiness and chase their own idea of success dude I love that you are so young love that you are so so so so successful but the most important thing to me to remember at the end of the day is where you are today is nothing relative to where you're going and I get so inspired more than anything about this journey because I truly believe that every single thing that you touch is heading in the direction of making other people better and it will resonate with a lot more people and it's just a matter of time it's a matter of energy being put into it and fostering it the right way we're thinking the same the same path I know I said at the beginning of the show but the the amount of episodes and content that you've been able to put out and the the inspiring people that you bring on a second to not so I appreciate you bring me on the show I appreciate everything that you do for this community in the community you're building and I'm looking forward to big friends for a long time hey that makes two of us and thank you so much for sharing your valuable time with me and our audience thank you guys for listening, and we'll see you next time!