Two Peas in a Podcast

Episode 99 - Haley Johnsen

Haley Johnsen is a singer & songwriter who masterfully blends the genres of Alt Pop & Americana hailing from Portland, Oregon. She got her start on Season 11 of American Idol and has since toured all over the United States & Europe. After finishing the most recent tour with The Talbott Brothers she released her latest EP called "Late Bloomer" as she continues working on her craft.

To connect with Hailey directly please reach out to:

https://www.haleyjohnsenmusic.com/

https://www.instagram.com/haleyjohnsenmus/?hl=en

Duration:: 45m
Broadcast on:: 08 Sep 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

Haley Johnson. What's amazing about you is outside of just being the super talented, really pretty artist. You are just a great human being. You are so, so positive. And I'm very, very excited to talk with you today. Thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to share with me and our audience. Thank you for having me, Igor. I'm excited to be here with you. I love this. I love this. And I will let you give our audience an introduction on yourself. Who are you? What is it that you do? My name is Haley Johnson and I am a singer songwriter, musician, vocal teacher. And I live in Portland, Oregon. And I've been on this journey of releasing my own original music now for just over 10 years. And, yeah, I'm still going. I love that. I love that. Let's talk about the idea and the dream of music. When did you start writing music? When did you start getting involved in music? And how did you know that you have an extraordinary gift? So, oh man, it, you know, I didn't really start writing music until I was in my late teens, early twenties. I always sang, but kind of behind closed doors. You know, I was always very shy growing up. So I just kind of sung into my parents, or my, my own closet. So no one could hear me. And I would just like listen to all my favorite singers, like Celine Dion and Bonnie Ray and whatever I can get my hands on that moved me to to sing. And I kind of just practiced on my own, but I did know at a very young age that like I was good at it. Like I just, I just kind of knew like, okay, this is like pretty easy for me. And it feels really good. And, but I'm so scared. Like, it's just, I don't want attention. I don't want anyone to know about this. But I always like dreamed of performing and, you know, day dreamed in class and, and stuff. But, yeah, it wasn't until I reached, you know, college that I kind of was got a little bit more serious about it and experimented and started writing and joined like an acapella group and a choir in college and shortly after I graduated, I was a contestant, a top 24 contestant on American Idol in 2012. So that was kind of like a huge catalyst for me when I got back home from that journey to like really be like, okay, I'm graduating from college. I'm an adult now, even though I'm living with my parents. And so I just wrote and wrote and wrote like well over 200 songs and made my first album of like seven songs that were my favorite songs and that was in 2015 so it's been, it's been a long journey and I feel like I kind of got a little bit of a late start. But, you know, I try not to think about that too much. Yeah, I love that because it just feels like you are on the right path and you are sticking with it. And that's always the most important thing is knowing that hey, wherever we are today. If we look at it today, this is just the start of a journey that's continuously getting better. You remember your first performance. Yes, so my first performance was actually at my high school. It was an assembly and I had a big school was like 2000 kids and so we'd have these assemblies every once in a while where the whole school gather in the gym and we'd have like some kind of celebration or about something at football game, but they'd always have like a student get a chance to sing a solo and so I sung somewhere over over the rainbow. I love it. The evacacity version. Anyone out there knows who evacacity is. And that was like, I was like must have been 18 or something and that was the first time I kind of showed my voice to a large group of people and I was very scared. So yeah, how did it go? That's always my first question because I'm like, you fall into one of two camps and it's usually like hey, that was, that went pretty well, but I myself being a perfectionist did not think it was amazing. Or I just got on stage and it was like an electrifying feeling and I'm so so excited to be out there. Yeah, I mean it was it was definitely electric electrifying and I was, I think I was shaking afterwards so it was like extreme adrenaline extreme nerves so I remember feeling like I knew it wasn't like perfect because my voice was really shaky. I still remember like trying to fight through the nerves and saying and like, yeah, it was just, it was a moment though where I was like oh man this is like the kind of rush that I want to have all the time, even though it was terrifying. You know, so as over the years it's gotten a lot easier and the rush is is a different kind of rush it's not like oh my god I'm so unprepared and I'm so nervous like I can't even control myself. But it's like an excitement that I get to do. Yeah, what is it like being on stage today. It's, you know, sometimes it's depending on like how my voice is feeling depending on a lot of factors, you know, I love performing but sometimes I feel like if I take too long of breaks between performing and then I have a show and notice that I feel a little bit more nervous and tired, but when I'm like touring night after night, you know, playing a very similar set each night it's kind of like super locked in. And I feel like I can be myself like I really do feel like completely myself on stage in a way that I don't know I feel very comfortable with the tension on me now and I feel like my stage presence has improved a lot so with all of that when you don't have those kinds of nerves, it makes performing so much more enjoyable because you can literally it's like you're so open and my music's very vulnerable so I'm already up there singing like really vulnerable songs. And like what's the worst that could happen like I've forgotten lyrics on stage I've dropped my guitar I've tripped I've forgotten you know I've like done all the things that are like scary voice crack. I didn't die. It's okay. People actually still like me even though it's not perfect so it's really always a journey and experiment or experience. I try to learn something from every every show that I play. But I love that because it happens to every single artist and like the perfect example of this recently has been like Zach Brian on stage where he forgot his lyrics and I mean the crowd just like adorantly chanted with him and sang with him and it's like a really moment where you watch a professional and artists have a real human moment of going, this isn't perfect but this is the best that I can do I am a person just like you. And I always wonder what is it like in those moments is your mind racing and are you worried that you know something is wrong or is it one of these where you just go, hey, I'm just going to make the best out of that moment. Yeah, I think it's it's always that you know I think that we don't always have control as especially as singers, how a performance is going to go like our voices change from day to day and so for me I'm really sensitive to how my voice feels and really the most important thing is for me is to like be in flow when I'm performing is to like every every artist challenges to like not be in their head and to not be worried about how the audience is reacting if they're listening if they're liking, we can make up all kinds of scenarios in our head when people when we can see people and their reactions to our songs or ever. And so I really try to not do that and try to just focus on evoking the emotions in the song that I want to evoke and give people a show, you know, it's for them. It's as much for them as it is for me right. So if I'm up there worried about being feeling self conscious, they're going to feel that, you know, and I want to feel just as open and as free as I do. So that's my goal is to always kind of let go and not judge myself for not being perfect. Yeah, I love that. I love that because, you know, there's a lot of vulnerability and music you're obviously putting yourself out there and you're just hoping that it's as well received as possible, knowing that, again, there is a story behind the song. There is a feeling that you're trying to express. What is that feeling that usually come into songwriting with and that you want to convey to the audience. What is the feeling sorry as quick as that again. Yeah, what is the feeling that you try to convey in your songs and you try to capture to make sure that it goes through the music. You know, it really depends. It depends on what the songs about. Sometimes I write from a very autobiographical place so, but I never wanted to be like unattainable for the listener, like I don't want it to be so vague or like. I want I want it to reflect an emotion that is also very universal that other people can relate to like my music it's not just for me. I know that I, the problems I struggle with are not unique to me. I hope that I always go into songwriting, trying to write in a way that makes people be like oh yeah that, that sounds like me shit. I'm not alone she feels that way too. Oh damn, like, okay. So I really just want people to feel less alone in their struggles and like I'm kind of like rooting for them. I appreciate that. I appreciate that just on the human level because all that means is you're trying to show people that you know you feel them. You are in the same boat as them you have, even though you're an artist you have a lot of the same struggles as them. Like what's crazy to me is you already mentioned this that your voice changes night to night and there are a lot of different things that happened to you as a performer. Tell me about some of the things that you do to make sure that your voice is on point each and every night because we both know that like your voice and your body is your instrument and there are very few professions where that's the fact. Yeah, so I really try to, you know, obviously warming up your voice is very important. I'm a voice teacher. If I didn't warm up my voice I would be quite the hypocrite. But I, you know, I try not to do too much talking. Talking is one of the worst things for your voice. Honestly, especially if you're like, you can talk in a healthy way and like, you know, support it and project it rather than like sinking down into your like, you know, a lot of girls like talk like this like vocal fry. Like that is so bad for your voice so, you know, on a show day I typically like to to warm up, you know, once or twice, one in the morning, one in the afternoon, a few hours before my show. I have a few little vocal, vocal steamer, which, um, it's like a little hand like a face steamer that helps loosen up all this stuff. And vocal nebulizer, which uses saline solution, like a saline stuff thing to vaporize into your nose and mouth. I circle with allergies. So I really need these things to help me break everything up. So, yeah, it's really just, you know, but, but I do find that when I'm on tour, singing night after night, my voice usually doesn't really get too exhausted. It actually gets stronger and just easier to use. So as long as I'm taking good care of it getting good sleep drinking a lot of water, you know, not smoking too much weed. It sounds like pretty good. Yeah, I love that. I love that. And I'm so happy that you talked about being on tour because to a person who's never been on one, we're just so so curious from the outside looking and what that entire process looks like. Tell us what the typical length of the tour and what your days on tour are structured like because everyone is always thinking about actually being up on stage, but that is such a small part of what you do. Well, so I've gone on a lot of different variations of tours. I'll give a few examples. Let's see. One of the first tours I did brought a friend along with me to help me drive across the country and help me sell my merch. And I was opening up for another band that was driving separately. So, you know, I'm in the car with one other person driving upwards of six to eight hours a day, playing the show, usually crashing it. You know, someone's house or finding a cheap Airbnb or hotel. So in that, in that scenario, it's a lot of driving. I actually just did a tour in the spring, opening up for this band called the Talbot Brothers, and I was a solo opener. And, you know, it's, it's very hard to make a good profit on tour these days so I didn't bring anyone with me. I just drove solo. So I was driving upwards of eight hours a day for the first leg of the tour. And no days off so like Portland to Boise, Boise to Salt Lake, Salt Lake to Denver, Denver, to Nebraska, like all eight hour drives, almost. You know, so that that is pretty brutal. It's pretty exhausting. And, you know, you're driving, you're stopping at gas stations for snacks, but then you get to the venue and they'll give you like meal tickets or, you know, they'll have food there. Yeah, it's, you're living in cars and hotels, Airbnb's, and rarely do you get a chance to, to do much sightseeing. I actually, I tore in another group. I play bass in this band called Big Wild, and his tours look a lot different than mine because he's way, you know, he's been a very successful artist for a long time playing huge venues, huge festivals. So with that, with that band, we're on tour buses. And that is, it's on one end. It's like, it's a lot easier because you play the show, you know, you play the show, you have a hired bus driver, you sleep on the bus, while the bus driver drives you overnight to the next city. And then you wake up in this new city at like 11 a year, could you stay up till three. And then you just kind of like, hang out during the day, go to your sound check, hang out a little bit more. I usually go to like a coffee shop and get some work done. And then we do the show and just rinse and repeat. So, yeah. Like being on tour with a band, especially, you know, being in a surrounding of a lot of incredibly talented people who are so excited about music. And what is that process for you guys when you get to hang out and not play the actual concert. It's so fun, like every tour that I've gone on, every single one, you know, whoever is in the crew, either in the bus with you or driving with you, you know, you just really bond with all these people. And it was with the big wild touring that I do, you know, oftentimes it's, it's people who have never met each other before, and we're all having to come together and live on a bus together for weeks at a time. And so they really become like, it kind of feels like summer camp, honestly, because you get really close with all these people and have a lot of fun. Fun times and, you know, there's a couple days off where we Michael bowling or go see a movie or go to top golf or something like that, you know. So it really does, it's, it's a one of the best bonding experiences is to be on tour with other musicians and it's just, it's really cool to see, get to know people from all walks of life from not even just the musicians, but like the crew, the crew members that are touring with you, the ones that are like, you know, the thankless job of setting up the stage and doing the sound and so I have a whole new respect for aspect of the industry as well. The people who make shows happen. Yeah, I love that. Now when you are with other musicians, do you find yourself writing music, collaborating and doing work together, or are you in the camp of I enjoy writing my own music and making sure that I stick to the process that I have in mind. I used to be a lot more like I really wanted to just write all my own music myself. And I didn't start collaborating and songwriting because I was scared until, you know, a few years in. So I kind of do both, you know, I love writing with people. I've written a lot of my songs with my bandmate. And, but I will say that there is a really sacred special process for me when I write solo that I feel like I can just, I can kind of put more thought into it. A lot of times I struggle, I struggle with showing up for my creative creativity a lot. I have really bad ADHD and so sometimes I'm very avoidant sometimes with like something that I know I need to do. It's like, it's almost like to go try to write again because then you're like, you know, you're going to hit a wall at some point. And that wall is so scary because it makes you question your entire ability to song right. But once you can bust through that wall, it's like, you just have to keep trying and then eventually you'll get an idea and your idea will start to snowball. And that's when it gets really exciting. So that can happen either solo with myself or with another person. So I'm definitely open to always of collaborating. But, yeah, it's, there's no, there's no right or wrong way to make. For sure. Have you ever read the book, The War of Art by Stephen Pressfield? I sure have. Yeah, all about the muse and all about showing up each and every day to make sure that the process of what it is that you're doing is as ideal as possible. Yeah, and also, you know, artists go through different seasons of what they're focused on. Like, I've been in a huge season of putting together content and releasing this EP I put out. There's so much legit logistical stuff that comes with that along with like touring. Oftentimes, I really do have to just have my brain kind of emptied out of all those things in order to write. And I'm working on, I'm working on showing up more for writing despite all of that. But I can already feel like moving into this fall season. I don't have a lot of shows booked in the next few months. It's going to be like, now is the time to like break open the floodgates of my creativity and just go for it. And I'm trying to write like as much as I can. And you know, I might write by myself. I might try to write with a friend. There's a lot of amazing musicians in Portland. I love that. Now, before I take you down the path of talking about the EP, talk to me about the process of songwriting. Where do you get the ideas for the songs that you write and how do they come to you? It's a combination of like putting together a puzzle, right? It's a lot of word mapping. It's using the thesaurus, the dictionary, not like the dictionary, the rhyme dictionary, the thesaurus. But I will say that like the inspiration comes from a place that I can't really explain and call it spiritual or woo woo. But like, I really do feel like sometimes these ideas will come to me when I'm not trying and I'm like, where did that even come from? Like, I like to call it the muse, you know, every every artist, every writer, songwriter knows this, what this is, this feeling is, is like when you almost like you get an idea and you have to like hold on to it by the tail before you lose it. And like, write as much as you can in that moment that the inspiration strikes. And it does feel like a very just kind of otherworldly feeling. I don't know, like, I'm not saying spirits are writing these songs for me or anything. But it does feel like there's an energy that kind of shows up for you when you song right. But I think that in order to even get, you know, open yourself up to that, you have to show up. So, it's really a beautiful process and I, when you write with another person, like I wrote this EP with another produced my producer and, you know, it was just him and I spitball on ideas and. But a lot of times we'd come up with something would be like, Oh my God, that line that's so good, you know, and it's just, it's really exciting when you're just, yeah, I don't know just ideas and putting the puzzle together. I love that. I love that. And the way that I see a lot, I see and hear a lot of artists talk about it is that just that the idea is kind of slippery and you have to almost capture it and make sure that you don't let go of it. So at the times where you do get inspiration and you do have an idea that floats to you. What are some of the things that you do to make sure that it's captured to the best of your ability for as much as you're able to hold on to it. Well, can you ask that last part one more time? Sorry. Yeah. What are some of the techniques that you use, whether it's, you know, note cards with key phrases, whether it's like humming onto a rhythm or beat. What are some of the techniques that you use to make sure that when the idea strikes you, you don't lose the thought of that like, Hey, that could be awesome. Voice memos. Voice memos. Like if I sometimes it'll just an idea will strike. And it's so easy to forget an idea. And so if I don't have, like, I'll, if I go take a shower, sometimes a lot of times my ideas will come to me in the shower. So I'll sometimes bring my phone, you know, set it down close by and push record record just in case I have an idea to make sure I capture it. So voice memos for sure. If I have like a line idea, like a phrase, I'll just write it. I have a little, I keep it in my notes and stuff. But I also, here, I'll show you these cards really quick. I have like these grade, I have this deck of cards that this other songwriter from Portland made their cards and each card has a different like prompt. So, this one is, this is like an inspiration. One is says be vulnerable. Vulnerability is the birthplace of innovation, creativity and change, Brene Brown. So, okay, so I'm going to be vulnerable in this song. Okay. Use call and response. Include a lioness, include nostalgia. So however you want to include these words or ideas. You know, these are just little inspirational things and then this one says write about winter. So all those prompts, you know, anything can be created from those prompts. But it's up to you to figure out how you're going to utilize them. So what I'm really like, I have nothing. I'll pull these cards out and see if I can get a song out. I love that tool in your toolkit because in the days where you don't have direction, you don't know exactly where you're going. It feels like they at least open up this like flow of the river towards. Hey, there might not be anything amazing that comes out of this, but maybe just maybe there might be something and at least you are spending the time working to try and capture that muse. Yeah, at the end of the day, I think that is like the most important thing is that you just continue sticking with it because you're so talented and you're so good at it. Oh, thank you. Appreciate that. Tell me about the process of coming up with an EP and that work and what that looks like. Yeah, hang on one second. I'm going to close my door. The process of this EP. Yeah. Okay, so this EP late bloomer. I started, all it was was two trips down to Austin, Texas. First trip was in like 23. God, maybe 22. I don't know. And I, I went down and I flew down there and I stayed in Airbnb and my producer out there. He's got a studio kind of out in the sticks of Austin, Texas. And, you know, it just looked like me going down there. And first few days, we wrote a song a day. And then the last part of my trip, I recorded my final vocals to like a drum track that he laid down because he's a drummer as well. And then I would leave and he would hire, he would have all the his guys that he uses for his albums, you know, layer on the electric guitar and the bass and the keys and the pedal steel or whatever. And so then I would like wait patiently for me to hear these and send them to me the rough mixes and we would just kind of go from there. So it was definitely interesting not being there for, you know, everyone's tracking and not really having a say and what's being put on it. But I kind of did that on purpose this time. I, I was sort of letting go a little bit of the control that I've had in the past with my albums because I, I trusted this guy to, to do really great work for me and, and he did so. Yeah, I flew down there again, and wrote the last few songs and same process. And so I would have loved to make a full, a full album, but just with the time, his schedule, my schedule, we just, you know, we got, we got six great songs. And so that's what we decided to put out. I love that. I love that. And there are special places that for whatever reason just attract artists and Austin keeps coming to mind as one of these. What is it about the place, the history of the place, the people who are there. That just makes it such a good environment for creating music for going down, even if it's for a week and writing something as crazy as a song a day. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I don't know if it's like, I mean Austin Texas is an amazing place. I love to visit there and it is full of vibrant musicians and, you know, people making all kinds of music, not just country and Americana and folk, but, you know, everything. But, you know, I specifically flew down to Austin because I wanted to work with this producer who lives there. But there is something really cool about kind of where we recorded it's kind of out in the, in the country. It's very desert like, and it's very beautiful. And so last time I stayed in this Airbnb on this property, that was just really awesome. I can't really even explain it, but it just being somewhere new. That's so much different from where I live. Oftentimes really helps spark creativity in me, you know, just a change in scenery. That's another huge reason why I thought this would be a really fun way to make an album or an EP is to just get out of my own environment. Yeah, I totally get that. Now, the interesting thing about music is that every single artist knows that you have to make a lot of mistakes. You have to have a lot of missteps. You have to have a lot of songs that don't hit a home run in order to come up with the ones that you love and the ones that do well. Let's talk about the mental aspect of that first. What is it like being an artist and knowing that, hey, sometimes it could take you ten attempts. Sometimes it might be a hundred to write a song that you're actually happy with. And that's going to make it on the album or that's going to make it into recording. How do you keep going? I ask myself that every day, you know, I've written so many songs and put out, you know, I have over like three hours of listening time of music, like I counted it up on my Spotify one time, just with all my releases. I was like, wow, it's a lot of music. And, you know, obviously not all of those songs have hit and they're sitting in this, you know, sitting here on Spotify on Apple Music, maybe being listened to by a few people. So, you know, you kind of have to, once you write a song, you kind of have to just let it go. And nobody knows what's going to happen unless, you know, unless you have hordes of marketing money and like, you know, I don't have that. So, for me, it's like, if I really believe in a song or someone else is like, this is the song, then we'll do everything we can to push that song and put money towards it and promote it. But even then, sometimes that's not the song. That's not the one people watched on to and that's, you kind of just have to let go and be like, okay, next. I'm already doing that like I, I put this EPL and I've been, you know, I did a, I fundraised 16, $16,000 to, to finish funding it. And, you know, it can be really discouraging when you put so much work into something and you don't see it performing like you'd like or it's, it's not the thing that's going to launch you to elevate you to the next step of your career. You never know, like you could, you could still have an album be out for a year and then someday one day your song blows up from, I don't know, like, there's always that chance, but I never, I don't ever rely on like the maybe I'm just like, okay, have we done everything that we can do. Okay, then it's time to get back to the drawing board. And as an artist, how do you know the difference between what you think is going to do well and what you don't think well. It's hard to, I don't know. You just, no one knows. There's no answer. Like, you could think it's the best song in the world and it just doesn't, or you can, you have a song that you didn't think was great that everyone was like, oh my God, that song's amazing. You're like, what? Really? That one? But I wanted this one to be the one. Yeah, I love hearing that. I love hearing that because you're sitting on the creative side and you're coming up with a lot of content, hoping just a little bit of it clicks, knowing that you never know. Like you never know if the idea is the one you never know of the video of the song if the tune for whatever reason is just the one that is going to click. Yeah, and also some songs, people, there are some songs that I love playing live that aren't the popular songs, but I like playing them live more. And the songs that are popular don't like playing live because maybe it's just a harder song for me to do. I don't feel the same thing with it. And so you really, there's like this relationship you have with your music that is really kind of complicated, at least for me, you know, like, I kind of tend to overthink things. So I don't know, it's in my relationship with my songs change also. So one day I'm like, I'm so sick of this. I'm retiring it. And then someone will request it. And I'm like, oh, this actually is pretty good, you know, but it's, it's hard to know. Yeah, it's just, it's all trial and error and what's going to stick. And, but I feel like the music that does the best is the music that's the most honest and authentic, you know. And even though a song isn't like skyrocketing on Spotify numbers or charting, if I get messages from people thanking me for writing a song or telling me a story about how like it helped. They needed to hear that like as much as I want those songs to be like doing well, that almost means more to me than these kind of, you know, the numbers and that whole game. So my goal is to just have people, you know, I want people to come into my shows and listening to my music. But, you know, the numbers game, you have to be really careful about how much you let that tear you down. Yeah. And at the end of the day, it's all about the human connection and that ability to create connection with your fans to create the connection with the crowd. And I'm also interested from the artist's perspective. What is it like being in front of people and what is the biggest crowd that you've gotten a chance to play in front of. If, you know, every every crowd is so different, you know, from playing for crowds in the West Coast versus the Midwest, like, versus Europe, Germany, like, you kind of when you're up on stage, you kind of have to gauge the energy and kind of, you know, cater to the, like, I don't know. There's just like this intuition and how to connect with the audience. And sometimes it's really hard. Sometimes you're like, I'm not connecting with them at all. They're not connecting with me. Or maybe it's all in your head. And then after the show, you sell $500 of merch and you're like, wow, I had no idea you liked my show because I couldn't tell. Yeah. So, it's a soap chute. I totally lost my train thought. No, it's, it's about the harnessing the energy with the crowd. Yeah. And, yeah. And I, oh, I remember, I recently, so with the big wild band, I play in, he sells out Red Rocks, Amphitheater and Denver, every year. So, I've gotten to perform at Red Rocks with him every time. And this most recent time, you know, that that's, that's a 10,000 people. Yeah. Like, in this massive venue that everyone's just like towering over you and looking down at you. And so to, for this last show, I really, I had to sing a cup of shout by tears for fears and play guitar solo. And I was so nervous because I never played guitar solo. And just, just that kind of pressure and like not wanting to mess up, but also wanting to be present and kind of you have to perform larger than life when you're on that kind of stage, you know, I'm so used to kind of standing and playing guitar. But in that scenario, I have to put my like Madonna hat on, you know, or like my performer hat on and like walk the stage and like work the crowd and that is so much fun for me. And I really want more opportunities to perform like that, where I'm kind of free of my instrument and can just kind of like go for it. But yeah, it's, it's definitely just trying to calm yourself in those moments where like this crowd is so big, but you kind of have to pretend like you're just with like 10 people. Yeah. And what are some of the things that keep you grounded in those moments, knowing that, hey, I still have to be here and present to make sure that I'm playing the best music, even though this might be the best moment for me as a musician of my entire life, that there are so many people who are cherishing the music or connecting with what I'm doing on stage. How do you go about making sure that, you know, you don't get too big of head, you know that it's still working time and you put on an amazing show. I mean, I just, I know how important each, each show is, and like you never know who's going to be in the audience so I always try to give 100%. You know, and give myself grace if I'm not feeling 100% that day, but I really in those moments if I'm feeling nervous or feeling scared like I try to just be like remind myself that I can trust myself. Like, I can relax because I know what I'm doing and my body knows what to do. And rather than getting in my head, being like, Oh, no, what if I mess this up or what if I, you know, it's kind of just reminding yourself in the moment to just relax and trust that you got it, you know, and sort of just like an inner dialogue with myself to be like, you've done this many times, you're going to be okay. And I think it's so nice for people to hear this side of you. It's so nice for people to know that, hey, on stage, when you're performing, you seem like the most confident woman alive, you seem like, you know, you're in the flow and you're doing the thing. But what a lot of people take for granted is that there is this mental battle that just about every artist goes through that just goes like, Hey, I still have to make sure that I'm doing my best. I still have to make sure that I'm not skipping over the details, because at the end of the day, it's the details that matter. And it's kind of the consistency of all the work that you put in that makes sure that you put on the great show. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think that everyone deserves a great show. And so, if you are having to fight with your own self consciousness, you know, it's better to just be really kind to yourself in those moments and just trust. Yeah. Yeah. And I appreciate that so much. Let me take you in the direction of spirituality one more time, because you already told me about the spirituality of songs coming to you, and there's some beauty in it. Now, you got to perform on one of the most historic stages in the country. And I don't know, when I go to places that are just amazing that have a longstanding history of great moments happening there, there is a certain feeling that you just get there's a certain type of energy. When you were on that stage, did you feel the energy of knowing that there are have been so many amazing performers, so many amazing sets, so many amazing artists on that stage before you. Yeah, I mean, when you're walking through the back halls, you know, of, you know, the green room area you're seeing every artist who's ever played there like a huge picture of them. And I just have to like pinch myself and be like, holy shit, this is, this is so cool like, and just really honor the space. And I try to just like focus on the gratitude that I get to even be there and try not to take it for granted I think I had to remind myself this time because it was my fifth time playing red rocks, which sounds to me like crazy. I don't like to go around being like I played red rocks five times like this this happens to me my fifth time and I've gotten a lot more comfortable playing there, but I'm like, I didn't want my fifth time playing there to be like, Oh, red rocks, whatever, like I'm still like no this is a very big deal for some artists or people in the industry to get really jaded about certain things like there's people who are like red rocks, anyone can sell out red rocks not a big deal there's like people like that who have that mindset of like it's not a big deal Or like, you know, anyone can do it or so I really try to not get to not jade myself to these experiences because they are still in the grand scheme of things so amazing and just yeah I'll never forget any of those Yeah, and I feel like it genuinely is people's dream to be up on that stage to perform at a venue that's as historic as red rocks. What does it feel like today for you knowing that you have had the experience five times and as crazy as it sounds I feel like you are more likely to be back up on that stage sooner rather than later and, you know, knowing that the future is so so bright Well, it is a huge reminder for me because I have one of my biggest goals is to bring my own music to red rocks like be able to perform as Haley Johnson there with my own songs and so I every time I play there I'm like, you better get working You know, like, if you're going to make this happen, you got a lot of words. So having that is kind of like, you know, I know I don't know how close I am to that happening but, you know, that's that's a big wish for me And I think that's part of the beauty of being an artist, right? It always feels like you're climbing a mountain. You never know where the hell the peak is but all you know is that you have enough to take the next step And this kind of leads us into the last question that I'm going to ask you today, which is this one. As you think about the next mountain peak for you as you think about the next direction that you want to go into This is the next thing that we're going to see out of Haley Johnson and where are you headed because we're so so excited for this ride for you. Good question. You know, I, I'm really trying to get out there and tour like a lot more. I have a booking agent and I think one of my biggest goals has just to be on the road more consistently and and building up my, my fan base You know, I've got a lot of music that I can play out on the road. But of course, I'm always like, okay, I need to write the next thing. And it's going to be so different and so much better and school or, you know, so I'm trying to currently just be happy with this album. I mean, I am very happy with it. Let it let it let myself kind of take it out and perform it and continue to to promote it. And in the meanwhile, continue start building the phase of the next set of I'm going to talk about Haley Johnson songs and what that looks like what that sounds like what I'm going to talk about or sing about what's the heart of it. And that's kind of where I'm at now is like, okay, I'm, I'm almost ready to like start zoning and on that on that and in a lot of ways it's very, very daunting because I'm like, I just did this. Yeah. That's what it is, you know, there's, I'm not at the point in my career where I can afford to take any breaks. Yeah. So I want to tag onto this with exactly that. There is this quality about successful people that you consistently see in every industry in every walk of life because they are just always onto the next thing and not very good at celebrating just always thinking about the next thing to get done. Yeah, what is it about success that for the people who are experiencing it that they don't necessarily recognize it as such but instead just keep moving in the direction of even being great, like greater and better than they have been before. Yeah, I think it's just this, this need to always be improving. I've always been like that. I always want to learn and grow and be better and I never think like in the process of making the album like this is the best thing I've ever done and then looking back on it and like I can use so much better. You know, like, and then I'll have like a moment of celebrating and then I'll get this anxiety of like, okay, I'm not, I don't have anything in, you know, ready to go yet. So, I think it is definitely I've heard that ADHD people have a hard time celebrating their wins because it's like, they just can't stop their brains always like trying to get to the next thing and get that next dopamine. So I'm working on celebrating myself and I feel like I have done that a good, a good amount this summer with this EP. So I look forward to to seeing what else I start to come up with and challenge myself with. I'd love to start writing more songs that kind of have more guitar licks. I want to start playing more lead guitar when I perform and just kind of, I don't know, I feel like I want to do some more like rock music like not like hard rock but I want more like energy. And like, soaring vocals and guitar solos and like, whatever that sounds like I'm going to figure it out. Whatever is inside that mind is what makes you so, so special. It is a level of talent that a lot of people just don't possess and I think you are so, so special and so talented. Thank you. I mean, just a superstar of a human being. Hayley, thank you so much for sharing your time with us. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. This was really fun. you and we cannot wait until the next time we get to see you. Yeah let's do this again.