Two Peas in a Podcast

Episode 97 - Chris Holt

Chris was the owner of the 2nd CrossFit affiliate in the world, the original commercial actor for the brand Ten Thousand, spent a year working with Liver King, and is now a nutritional and life coaching specialist residing in Salt Lake City. His approach to sharing positive conversations around mental health blends perfectly with the long term mission of improving people’s lives and creating a community of mutual support & understanding.

To connect with Chris please follow the links below:

https://www.instagram.com/beyondthetats/?hl=en

https://www.tiktok.com/@beyondthetats?lang=en

Duration:: 48m
Broadcast on:: 06 Sep 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

Chris Holt, one of the craziest things about you, brother, is outside of being superjacked and just a super funny guy. You are so good looking and you're such a good time. So thank you so much first and foremost for coming on the platform and sharing your valuable time with us. Well, no, I appreciate you having me and I always like having conversations with people. So it's good. I love this. Let's start at the beginning. Tell me about this trajectory going from being an architect and the point where you realize that, hey, I'm just really interested in making people's lives better and not necessarily building things. Yeah. So I remember, I think I was in seventh grade and my dad worked for Exxon Mobil for like almost 40 years. So we lived overseas most of my life. So like kindergarten to 10th grade, we were overseas, Italy, Singapore, London, Norway. So living overseas, I mean, you get exposed to a lot of things, but I just remember for some reason, my parents had a subscription to architectural digest and it was always in the bathroom. And I just would scroll through those magazines and just look at the houses and the designs and I was just really captivated by that. And I was like, yeah, I just, I want to do that, I want to build something or design something. And so ever since seventh grade, I want to be an architect and then that happened. I went to the universe, Miami in Florida, it was a five year architecture program. It felt like it was never going to end, but now it just, as you get older, you're like, wow, I was just like a blimp in my life, but so yeah, I was working for an architect or architecture firm in Miami for a couple of years after I graduated. And then 2008 hit, building stopped, economy crashed. And I left architecture to open at the time, it was the second cross but affiliate in Miami. So I had been doing CrossFit since 2005. So I've been doing it for a few years, back when no one knew what it was. Yeah. And I kind of missed those days, but I knew it was going to be what it is today. So left architecture was scary, obviously, it was like jumping off a cliff. Yep. I remember I had practiced a speech that was going to give my parents on all my friends that I went to school with. So we were all architects working in Miami. So we'd meet for lunch once a month. So for some of them, I was just kind of practicing the speech of like why I'm leaving architecture. And I called my parents and I don't remember exactly what was said. It's kind of a blur. I just remember my mom yelling a lot, right? And saying that businesses fail all the time, you just spent five years of your life doing this degree and two years working and now you're just going to throw it away and blah, blah, blah. And I just said, I'm, I'm, I'm open across with Jimmy. She's just like, what is that? I don't even know what that is. And I was like, it's, it's going to be everywhere. Yeah. And she says, you don't know that. I said, yeah, I do. It's going to be on television. She's like, that's you, you have, there's no way for you to know that. And so then making that transition for me, it was just, I was just miserable in architecture. I didn't, I wasn't passionate about what I was doing. And then what you realize is once you get into an actual firm, you're not doing what you did in school. You're not designing, you know, you're doing CAD details and you're doing like monkey work. And it's, it's not what you thought, right? Yeah. And I think that is a lot of what most professions are kind of like, where it's school is, is a theory, it's a train of thought, but you don't actually do that stuff right away, right? So, and I guess the, I should have been open or like aware of that in college because we would study these architects and some of my favorite architects of all time. Most of them died born alone in a debt. Yep. And they're like, that's not going to be us, we're going to be rock stars. And then you realize architects get paid nothing. Yeah. Like for the amount of schooling we have to go through, they get paid nothing. My starting salary in 2006, five year degree architect, 32,000 a year. Wow. I mean, this is a story. The reason why I find so much power in that story is because I, on the other hand, was like kind of in a similar position where I went to school for finance. I did the exact same thing where I was working for one of the biggest banks in the world. And at the time working there, I just went, like, something doesn't feel right. Like I'm this big fitness nerd. I love working out. I'm passionate about helping change people's lives. And I'm having important conversations, but they're just not in the scope of necessarily what I'm looking to do with my life. And I feel like this story of, hey, I went through school. I felt like I was committed to something, but it wasn't where my life was going to go. It doesn't get shared enough. And I think that's a, I think it's a generational thing because I'm right on the cusp of millennials because I was born in '82. But I remember when I was graduating college, Ben Stein gave a little commencement speech before the actual graduation. And if you don't know who Ben Stein is, he's like, he was the teacher in Ferris Bueller, he's the clear eye commercial guy, right? So he came to my school, gave a little speech, and I'll never forget what he said because this guy is a writer, he's a lawyer, he's an actor, he does all sorts of stuff. And he says the two things that he wanted to leave us with was that this concept of you're leaving school with a degree, whatever you are studying, do not feel like that is the only thing that you need to do. So he says, essentially, keep your eyes open for opportunities because nowadays, you know, like my father, he's '82, '83 right now, his generation, you get a job and that's what you do, right? But because the world has changed so quickly and it's evolving so fast, he said just be open opportunities. And then the second thing, he says, you know, if you are close with your family, go home and see them as much as you can because as you get older, you're going to get busy or busy and then the chances of seeing them, you know, you're just going to say, oh, I'll visit them later, and then when they're gone, they're gone, right? So those are two big takeaways I took from that talk. And that's essentially what happened was I was like, I felt so stuck in architecture because I'm like, I put all this money in this degree, I have all these student loans. Like, I can't leave this. But like you were saying, you know, there was an underlying passion for both of us that we just did naturally because we just love fitness. We like, you know, health and wellness and I think coming from finance, coming from architecture, you never look at that as a viable career, you know, because you see people in global gyms, trainers, it's like, I don't want that much though, right? But, you know, it's just a matter of being open to those things because I just remember I was really miserable working as an architect and I just thought, well, this is how it is. People hate their jobs. Right? That's just what it is. And once I realized, all right, I feel like I understand like CrossFit was just this thing where I'm like, it's going to be everywhere. It's going to be one of those things that every third person is going to do it or everyone has at least knows someone that does it or has tried it like yoga, right? And you know, it was just taking my chance and honestly CrossFit changed my life in many ways. Yeah, that makes both of us. Tell me about the experience of actually starting your own business and some of the fears that came with that. Yeah. So when I started, I had sexually she's technically an ex-girlfriend, which is like why would you ever open a business with the next girl? But our relationship is very odd in the sense that like even now, like she's more I view her more like my sister, which is even more weird that we even dated. But what happened was I did this girl and she was in, she was an exercise physiology major and I think she got another degree in exercise science for her masters and I met her at the University of Miami. And so she was originally her background, she was a resident, it used to be a resident athlete for the Olympic Training Center in Colorado. She was a national team for Taekwondo. And so she was still training when I met her, but she was kind of like, you know, to make the national team again, she was just like not, that was just not her focus anymore. She was like, I'm done with the sport, but she had obviously teammates and one of her teammates, this guy named Tony Graff, who at the time was still on national team. He was the alternate for Steven Lopez for like two Olympics. So I met him and just kind of met him just in passing through her. And so when I decided to leave architecture, I opened a cross between him, I called her and I said, I don't know anything about training people. Is this a good idea? She's like, what are you doing? Yeah. And she knew kind of what cross was, she's like, no one's going to do cross, but it's too intense. It's like, no, moms and dads are going to do this. She's like, you're crazy. I teach people Olympic weightlifting. You were not going to teach a mom how to do a snatch or a clean injury. I said, as you can, you can. And she says, no, she says, talk to Tony. He's always, you know, an ideas guy and like a serial entrepreneur. So I called him and all I said was, Hey, I want to open a cross between him. He didn't even say all he said was, let's do it. Love that. Okay. So we meet. We're talking about it. The concept of crossfit, obviously he was still training for Olympic trials and stuff like that. And he says, we need Alicia. We need her. We need a female. All right. I was like, how are we going to? What? I don't know. And so she had just gotten a job opportunity as the strength and conditioning coach at the Olympic training center college. Oh, wow. There's only one position. Yeah. This is her dream job. And I'll never forget it. We met her at a Panera bread and just said, this is it. We can be our own bosses and it's going to be awesome. And she's like, what? And I don't know how we did this. I don't know how we got her to turn down that job, but she says, okay, this is what I have in savings. Okay. I'll give this like, I think she said like six months and we're like, five, all good. And then when I left architecture, I only had a three month severance package. So in my head, I was like, I have three months to make this work. So to start that was really, I don't remember it being scary. I just remember being so excited because I knew it wasn't going to fail. I was, I've never been so confident about something in my life. And of course, for the first three months, any money we made, we put it right back into the business. So we didn't have to take out any business loans. We started at the, out of a bodybuilding gym in South Miami, in the back room. It was like a dark, like low ceiling. We had to knock the ceiling out so we can actually do overhead lifts. And I just remember it was like wooden floors. We constantly break the floors. So then when they moved out the floor and it was just concrete. I just remember it was just like a dungeon. Yeah. But something about it, I just, and it smelled and it was just like really just not great, but I'm like, I loved every second of it. And within less than a year, we had enough clients to rent the space next door, which was a two thousand square foot warehouse space. And then moved into that, I think it was after a year. And then quickly after that, we rented the bay next door, so we had a four thousand square foot space and, you know, it was just a groove from there. Yeah. And I love that story so much because there is a pattern here that needs to be recognized. Successful business owners, regardless of what industry you're in, go, Hey, here is the idea. We're going to make this work. There is no plan B. You just burn the bolts and make the idea stick because you believe so much in the vision. Now what's crazy is today, like sitting here, right, and knowing how big CrossFit got, knowing how many gems opened and closed, it's crazy that you saw that in 2005. Talk to me about the trajectory of that business and at what point you decided to get out of the game. So I think we started obviously early days because, I mean, we technically could have been the first affiliate, but there is one gym. I'll never forget that they were called rip fitness center, which I thought was such a stupid name. I was like, but they got their affiliation papers in a month before us. So they are officially were the first. So I was like, Oh, we're the second. And to me, I'm like, Oh, if you're not first or last, like, uh, but I just remember because when we started, it was still no one knew what it was, right? Yep. And I think as it just started growing, I don't know, it's just, I was just confident based on the fact that, you know, if you just focus on the person, right, I remember the affiliate director at the time. Her name is Lisa Lugo. She's just to own cross with San Diego. I don't think she's, you know, she's not affiliated with cross for anymore, but, um, I had a call with her. I'll never forget. I was in my apartment in Miami and she says, congratulations. You just got your affiliation. I'm like, Oh my gosh, she's so excited. And she says, I have one piece of advice for you. I say, okay. And she says, find one soccer mom and make them the center of your, your, your universe. And I was like a soccer mom. She says, yes. And I'm like, okay. And I kind of ignored it. And then the space that we were in was in a place near a little area called Pinecrest, which is a very middle to upper class neighborhood in Miami. So, you know, some women would come in like, you know, late 30s, early 40s. And there was one woman, her name is, um, name is Amy Presby. And I remember she started and she was wearing really baggy clothes, you know, I guess she wasn't really comfortable with her, her body. And she had, um, four kids, right? So she had a lot of kids and she just within like six months, less than a year, she was like looking and lean and like wearing Lulu lemon and all this stuff. And then what happens? She goes to the carpool lane, picks up the kids and all the other mothers in Pinecrest are like, what the fuck? Like she has double the number of kids I have or quadruple the number of kids I have. And she looks way better than me. And then it was all about this, keeping up with like the Jones's type of thing. So then I had just this flood of soccer moms essentially, uh, joining the gym. And most of them were married to men that, you know, doctors, attorneys, you know, a lot of disposable income. So that made up a majority of our clients out. Um, so yeah, God, I love that advice so much because it's such a valid piece of advice. You don't need, you know, a hundred thousand eyeballs on you. All you needed, just a couple of loyal clients who are people who always support you regardless of what it is that you do. Yeah. Because the marketing really was the person, right? And people were like, do you do ads? Do you do flyers? I'm like, no, our people are walking marketing, right? Yeah. Exactly. And especially when they're getting really, really good results. Where did your trajectory lead you next? Was it the liver King opportunity that came after that? Yeah. So, well, that wasn't right after. So in 2018, I met my now ex wife, uh, and I was kind of burnt out, uh, owned the gym for 10 years. We bought Alicia out around 2013, I think I don't remember the year, but she, she wanted out and, you know, we're like, that's fine. So it was just me and Tony. And by 2018, I was just kind of like burnt out and, um, my ex wife, uh, had a job opportunity out in Salt Lake City. She's like, you want to move? And I was tired of Miami. I was tired of the heat, the humidity, the hurricanes. I was like, yeah, just get me the fuck out of here. I'm just, I'm done. And so I sold my portion of the business to Tony, um, and we moved out to Salt Lake. And then that was kind of a disaster because I didn't have anything lined up. And that's kind of when I started focusing on social media. And then her job was paying her enough money to support us. And she's like, you know, just take your time, figure out your next move. It's all good. Six months in, she gets fired. So then I like, oh God. So having been an entrepreneur for 10 years, you know, you go into this hustle mode, right? Yep. It's like no sleep. You got to make shit happen because now you're back against the wall, right? And there are no safety nets. So I started, you know, managing cross fajins and doing online training. And that's where I got and I started doing, I've always done nutritional coaching with my clients in Miami, but now I started doing remotely picking up brand deals for social media since my following on social media was growing. And so honestly, by the time, like maybe two years, two and a half to three years into Utah, I was making more money than any year I'd ever owned the gym. Oh, wow. You know, I'm like, what? And even though I was kind of doing several things, like kind of working, like it was just, you know, I had the online coaching. I had paid partnerships at the time, weren't a lot of money. And then I was managing cross fajins and I was working for a startup. That was all part of the cross fajins. So that's kind of the two in one thing, but I was doing a lot. And then one of my sponsors at the time was a company called ancestral supplements. So it was just freeze dried, desiccated organ meat supplements. And so I was taking their supplements because I believed in eating nutrient dense foods, but I just didn't like the taste of liver or organs. So getting in a capsule form made sense. And then the owner of Ryan Johnson reached out to me and says, Hey, you know, I'm Brian Johnson. I own ancestral supplements. I want to fly you out to Texas and offer you a full time job. Okay. So they flew me out. I met the people at the time they were working there, which was maybe like nine people. And then met him in person, went to his house. He was the most intense person I'd ever met. Kind of like what I could only assume Tony Robbins feels like to be around. And basically he just said, Hey, look, I, I own a bunch of companies. I want to own a hundred companies and I only hire people that can run companies. So that was the pitch. And he says, you've owned, you've owned your own business, you started things from scratch. You know, I want to hire you. So eventually you could maybe run one of these companies and be the face of it because I don't want to be the face of my cover. And this is before his Instagram page. Yeah. And so I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm like, but I'm making X amount. He's like, no, no, we're going to match that. If not beat it. And I was like, okay. So I, because of that, I, you know, I was required to drop the side hustles and all those things. And at the time I was like, yeah, I don't, I want to do one thing and make the same amount of money. Right. Yeah. And then went out to Texas for a year. So that was 2021 and then was there for a year and just realized it was not a good fit for me. And then I was able to leave that and then I could really go anywhere and I relaunched my online business up in June, 2022, and that took off right away and which I'm really grateful for. And then I realized I could live anywhere. And so I decided to move back to Salt Lake just because I loved it out here. I love the mountains. I love the four seasons. It feels like a city without being a city generally feels safe everywhere. Everything in Texas, you know, I experienced racism every other day and even here, even though it's a red state, oh, I've never really experienced it here. Right. So for me, I was like, yeah, and plus I have an older brother that lives out here with his family. I had a group of friends. So I had a foundation. I didn't want to move to a new city where I didn't know anyone. Yeah. So I thought, I'll go to Utah, see if I like it. I'm not bound to it. But that was, you know, a little over, or I moved back here in the last October. And so I think that this is going to be my home base for a while. Love that. And the pizza that I want to take out out of the story of Labor King is just this. Sometimes in life, you have awesome opportunities that come your way that it feels good, taking a leap of faith on. And every now and then, they just don't work out. The cool thing about a good entrepreneur in general is that you take this swing, you understand exactly what you sign up for, if it doesn't live up to exactly what you need in your life at the time that you needed, sometimes you just take a step back and reorganize. And from there, what's crazy to today is watching the success that you've had in every single thing you touch. It just feels like, hey, this is a part of a good story, not a misstep because the lessons that you learned knowing that this isn't exactly what you're looking for are some of the things that now make you such a great trainer and such a great marketer for yourself. Yeah, I would say that, you know, it's a lesson that I learned, is that like working for, as those who are supplements and working for the Labor King, I will say this, were some of the darkest days of my life. I was going through a divorce. I had made a cross-country move. I basically started a brand new career. My grandmother had passed away literally a month when I moved back to Texas. So there was a lot going on, and it was the lowest part point in my life, right? Like I'd struggle with mental illness, but like suicidal thoughts have always been a fleeting thing in my life, but there was a moment during that time where that was something that I was going to do. And so I would just say for anyone, even if you don't struggle with mental illness, but like all those, like you were saying, taking a big swing, like shooting for the stars or shooting for the moon, all those things are, it's perspective, right? Because at the end of the day, if I didn't take the job with the Labor King, 10,000% I would not be here, right? So it's the choices that we make, but even if it's a failure, failure is the best educator, right? So too often people, I think there's this negative stigma with failure because it's a negative word. You fail. But I view failure as growth, right? But it's your choice. You can take advantage of that opportunity in an inflection point, or you can squander it and just be a victim, right? Yeah. So in my life, things happen for me, not to me. Yeah. And as a man, I'm just so proud of you for first and foremost going through it and coming out on the other side of it with this good perspective, second of all, having the ability to express it in such a positive light, and more importantly, just knowing that you're here, I'm thankful for this conversation and everything that you've been through. Let's get away from the darkness just for a minute and talk about an amazing brand that you were a part of and have consistently been partners with, and that is 10,000. Tell me about that brand and how the partnership came together because it has been such a great influence for both brands. Yeah, 10,000, they had just started. I think they only have like 1,500 followers on Instagram, which is crazy, maybe 2,000. It was really low. But it was funny because I had gotten a package on the same day from two clothing brands, RON and 10,000. And I tried on the RON stuff and I, at the time, their initial designs, I really, I hated. I hated the way it fit. I hated the way it was constructed. It just didn't feel great. Now their clothes are way different. Yeah. Now they have retail stores and it's crazy, but with 10,000, I just liked their clothes better. I like the fit. I like the look. I like the logo. Like logos are a really big thing for me. And I just said, no, I'll barter some clothes with you guys and I'll post about it. And then, you know, I did an ad for them or like a testimonial video and they turned it into an ad and that blew up and then their Instagram following started growing. And then because of my ad linking to me to them as their page grew, my page grew. So and back then they had a really great system of, they called them captains, right? So you would get signed on as a captain, it was a paid partnership. You would get in all these perks, obviously free clothes. They would fly videographers out to Utah to shoot with me. They really put a lot of money towards that. That whole system no longer exists, which I'm really sad about, but it was a really great relationship and I've met a lot of cool people through that brand and I love seeing it out in the wild. You know, I'll go to my CrossFit gym and I see people 10,000 shorts on and I'm like, nice. Yeah. But obviously when I started working for a liver king, I had to burn that bridge. So I really thought, you know, after a left liver king, I reached back out to them and they said, like, in a nice way, like you broke your contract that we have nothing to talk about. And so I was like, that fair enough. And then recently, a representative from them reached out to me, maybe like less than a month ago and the original ad that I made for them or sorry, the testimony that they turned into an ad, they wanted to rerun because it did so well three years ago. Yeah. And I'm like, yeah, that's fine. And they were going to pay me for it. And I was like, yeah, it's already done. So yeah, just repost it. And then they asked, hey, why don't would you be open to just shooting more white listed ads for us? You don't have to post it on your social media platforms. You just get paid for the videos. And I was like, oh my God. Yeah. And obviously that reopened that relationship. So I've done a two ads for them right now and you know, that's not like a, there's no set number. Like when they might need one, it's, you know, it's the option is there. But to this day, I still love their clothes and, you know, always promote them. Yeah. I love them because they are a great brand. And what you'll find with great brands is they generally just keep really good long-term relationships with everyone who's part of the brand blowing up. Now what's crazy is that you were one of the first people on the ground. What was it like watching this brand become from like, hey, nobody knows about 10,000 products at all to the first people who were showing up to the gym in these. And I think at the time, they were like $70 shorts. And then it turned into this big thing where, hey, these are now kind of the face of CrossFit as well. Yeah. I mean, it kind of felt like CrossFit, right? Like I felt like I knew that there was a lot of potential with the brand. And I don't know, I just think it's, it's, it's cool to see that because, you know, even their motto is like better than yesterday, it's just something that resonates with me is like every day is an opportunity to be better, to do more, to step further outside your comfort zone. So that it's not a surprise they are as big as they are. I would love to see them to like have retail stores like Roan, but, but even like Roan, I remember I went in there and bought a friend, a pair of shorts and tea, a t-shirt for his birthday. And I was like, I remember they rang it up and I'm like, this is how much? Yeah. And I'm like, oh my God, this is so expensive. But yeah, I just think that 10,000 is one of those brands that I never really thought they were going to get into the CrossFit space for summers. And even though they do have their interval shorts and they're great for just doing whatever you want. And I never saw like, which is weird because they're, you know, gym apparel. But it doesn't surprise me, you know, and I think it's, you know, it's cool to see more of like, you know, there's elite CrossFitters repping the brand and stuff like that. For sure. So let's, but yeah, yeah, it's, it's just cool to kind of see it from the inception. Love that. Let's talk social media because social media is such a big part of your brand today. Obviously, there's a lot of positive as well as negative that comes with being in the spotlight as much as you are. Talk to me about first the positive aspects of, hey, as crazy as it is, there is, I mean, what quarter million people following you and seeing your posts and getting some type of interaction with the content that you create. Yeah. Like social media, the positives and the, like always, I think is an opportunity to spread positive information, positive vibes, comedy, laughter. I think the world needs more laughter right now and it allows you to connect with people that you would never connect with. So I think it's, it's great for that. I think it's, it's awesome for, you know, for me specifically is to share the negative parts of my life because too often everyone's page is like a highlight reel and it's just showing their best life, but it's not real, right? So it's, it's not common that you find someone that will talk about real topics, but it's an opportunity for me to have those discussions because as we know, suicide rates and men are higher and all those things. So being able to share my demons publicly or like, I had an open heart surgery a little over a year ago and I shared that whole experience, which was tough to do. I shared, you know, my, my divorce, my breakup with my fiance, like a year ago, like, the, you know, all the negative things in my life. It's just important to share that because I think too often that's where the negative parts of social media, like occur, right, where people only see positive things and then they start comparing their life to other people's lives and then it's just kind of like FOMO or, oh my gosh, like my life sucks and it's just like, look, we're all struggling. We're all trying to figure this out, right? So there are positive aspects to it for sure. Yeah. It's awesome hearing you talk about it because first and foremost, the content that I get from your page is always so positive and so real. There is an authentic feel to every single thing that you put out. How do you find the delicate balance between talking about negative things and making sure that you maintain a positive attitude when having these conversations? I think it's important to go back to like, you can share the darkest thing, right? But if your post is, this is the darkest thing in my life and then yeah, that's pretty sad and depressing and dark. But the point of sharing the dark moments is to show how I process these things and what is the takeaway because there's always a silver lining, right? And it's all about perspective. It's about the words that we use, the stories that we tell ourselves. So kind of walking people through that mindset and that thought process is that, hey, open heart surgery, I look terrible right now and I have to rebuild and all this stuff and most people are like, oh, I used to be here and I used to be this strong or this fit or this skinny. And it's just like, look, it's done. You can't do anything about it. Yeah. Living in the past is not helpful. And so kind of sharing this idea that you have to enjoy the journey, enjoy the process of rebuilding. I've had to do that multiple times. I've had four lung surgeries. So like every time I had a major surgery, I either lost a lot of weight or gained a lot of weight and then it was like back to square one. So learning to enjoy the journey, enjoy the process is something, it's a skill, right? You have to learn to focus on that and look, I could have just sat there and been a victim. Yeah. Like, why is this happening to me? Oh, like, look at me for me by being a victim doesn't help, doesn't do anything. And honestly, it just shirks ownership, right? Yeah. It's just people that just want to do the blame game, right? Yeah. Um, so yeah. And I want to pull out this awesome message out of absolutely everything that you said is this, hey, there is no benefit of living in the past. This is where you are today. Here is a combination of all the things that have happened to you over the course of your lifetime. And as long as you have this ownership mentality of, this is my story, I get to choose where I go next. You come out this positive guy that's on the other side, his name is Chris Holt, who just goes, the rest of my life is going to be better than whatever came before. And I make my own opportunities. Yeah. So there's a story that I tell a lot about when I had my first lung surgery. I was my first deep doubt, sorry, deep bout of depression. I think my parents were a little concerned. So they reached out to my high school basketball coach, my varsity basketball coach, his name is Chris Andre, uh, never forget him. He actually, I think he's the headmaster of a school in Denmark, I think. Anyway, so this was when we were living in Norway. So he, uh, had gone to Harvard, played football for Harvard. And I remember he pulled me in his office and I talked to him many years later. And I told him the story. And it's funny because this is what I remember. And we just scheduling and everything. And he's like, that is kind of what happened, but I want to tell you my recollection. I still have yet to talk to him about that because the story of him, I tell you is just what I remember. Yep. So I remember he sat me in his office and he said, Chris, I'm going to share a story with you and I'm going to give you some advice, uh, that my football coach at Harvard gave me when I ruptured my spleen. I'm not going to explain it to you, but you'll figure it out. Now 16, I was really angry and he just says, picture yourself straddling the line. Your left foot's in the past, your right foot's in the future and you're pissing on the present. And at 16, I was like, that was a very graphic image. What does that mean? He's like, get out of my office, he'll figure it out. And for years it haunted me. What does that even mean? And obviously, we all know what that means is that you can dwell on what's happened, but it's done. Like I said, take the silver lining, let it go, move forward. You can worry about things that may or may not happen outside of your control. The only thing you do have control over is the present. And look, books like Power of Now, Eckhart Tolle and all those things, powerful books, very difficult to do, right? Yep. I mean, I actually trained Eckhart Tolle's step done. And I didn't know it for the longest time. She's like, step dad is Eckhart. I'm like Eckhart, Eckhart Tolle. And I just read his book and she's like, yeah, I'm like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. But the irony is that she could not, like being present for her, she was so far from it. And she's like, I said, you're around him all the time. Like, how does that not rub off on you? And then she would just say things like, it's not realistic. You have no idea. He's just like an anomaly. Like, no. But this idea of just hyper focusing on what you have control over is the only way we gain more agency in our lives. For sure. And too often with my clients, I see people hyper focusing on things that they don't have control over, right? A shitty boss, a terrible coworker, something, right? You know, you can't control those things, right? All you can control is how you're reacting, how you let things affect you. Yeah. And it's awesome that you talk about it that way because the way that I talk about physical fitness is the exact same way that I talk about mental fitness. And it's just a combination of the discipline. It's a combination of all the patterns and routines that you have in place. And the better that you're able to get into these positive loops and positive habits of the things that you do every day, kind of the better you end up in the long run. And what happens in the world today is that on Instagram, on social media, there are so many images of people who pretend to be living their best life, but behind the scenes struggle with such severe anxiety, depression, whatever it is. And they don't have an outlet to proactively and constructively have these sorts of conversations that you open the door to. Talk to me about why mental health is so important to you and why you care so much about spreading a positive message about it. I think it's safe to say that COVID, I think in some ways made people experience depression that had never experienced depression before in their lives or anxiety for the first time in the middle, right? So for the first time, because of something terrible that was going on in the world, everyone was experiencing these feelings, right? And I have so many friends that are like, I don't even know what this is, I don't know what this feeling is. And I'm like, wow, that must be nice. But like, hey, that's what it is, depression, anxiety. And it's something that I've struggled with for as far back as I can remember. And I think for the longest time, I viewed my mental illness as this thing that I had to deal with, that it was stopping me from being like, or reaching my full potential. And what I realized over time is that, again, something we can consider as negative was actually allowing me to have in some ways a superpower when it came to working with others that struggle with the same issues, because it allowed me to show more empathy, right? And compassion and understanding, because if you're coaching someone that is struggling with it, like crippling anxiety and you've never experienced anxiety, you're really not going to be able to coach them effectively or connect with them. So it's just really important because, like I said, in the United States, it's just this culture of like, man up, sack up, just don't talk about your feelings, feelings are lame or crying is a weakness or asking for help is a weakness. And that's so far from the truth, because if you look at us as human beings, how did we thrive from the beginning, tribes, communities, those communities require communication, you know, leaning on others, right? And for some reason we've developed this culture where it's like, no, I'm a lone wolf. It's like, yeah, if you were a lone wolf back then, you would die. That's exactly how that works, right? You never wanted to be exiled from your community because then your survival rate dropped zero. So obviously, obviously life is very different now, but I think it's more easy to isolate yourself these days, to bury yourself in the internet or video games or whatever it is. And it's very easy to isolate and self kind of like, in a certain way, I view it as kind of self harm, right, because you're putting yourself in a position where, you know, if you're not able to lean on others and you just isolate, then it's just like you're digging yourself in this hole, right? For sure. So, yeah, for me, it's just important to talk about these things because a lot of people like you've said here, like, oh, you're this positive person, and I say this a lot. I'm a class half empty person, right? And I wake up every morning, look in the mirror and my first initial thought is typically like, what's the point? And what I've learned is that, okay, that might be my default, but there are many things I can do to not live in that space, right? Yeah. So it is possible, right? It requires a lot of effort, but it requires doing hard things every day. And that's what I obsessively chase is hard things because that's the only way you can really grow. God, I love that you talk about it that way because one of the biggest things that I find in diet and fitness and doing sauna and doing cold plunges and all of these things that are now becoming much more common health habits is just that. The value of getting up going, hey, I really don't want to do this and forcing your mind to take over and just go, I'm going to get through this. And what's crazy is that there is actually scientific research behind parts of your brain that grow every single time that you force your mind and force your brain to go, even though I don't want to, I will. Yeah, there's one person, I think it's Gabriel Lyons said this, I think it was her, but she was saying like, you know, it's about creating standards for yourself. For sure. It's not about motivation. And then boom, people tell me, oh, how do you stay motivated? I'm like, I'm never motivated at that point. Don't chase motivation. It's fleeting. And creating standards like this is my standard that I will do these things that resonated. I'm like, yes, you need to create these higher standards for yourself, but, you know, part of integrity is doing what you say and say what you do, right? Like, or how does Tony say he's like, mean, mean, what are you saying and say what you mean? Yep. That's how he teaches like his kids. That's integrity. Yeah. And if you want to have self integrity, then if you create these standards, do them, right? And of course, no one likes to get cold. No one wants to really exercise. I mean, I rarely want to exercise, but I do it just because it's become a habit. But it's just, like you said, just doing the things, especially when you don't want to do them. So anytime I say to myself, I don't feel like rocking today, I'm like, damn it. Now I have to. Yep. Because I said that, right? So it's doing these little, you know, mental tricks for me that helped me stay consistent. I love that because my guy is Goggins and Goggins talks about it as putting on his shoes before the run. He goes, sometimes I stare at them for 30 minutes because I don't want to fucking do this. But then I know I have to put these motherfuckers on and just go on the run. And I feel like there is so much value in just that going, Hey, I don't want to, but that means I should. Yeah. Now what's crazy is we both understand that social media in today's environment has a positive impact on mentality of sound where it provides motivation forces you to do good things and you can find inspirational people like Goggins like Cam Haines, whoever it is that you follow in any space, but you can also find a lot of anxiety and depression online based on not living up to some sort of fake scenario that is playing out in your mind. You as a influencer of some sort as a personal trainer as this positive person, how do you find the balance between using social media as a tool, but not getting lost in the shuffle of clicking through the videos and letting the day slip away? Yeah. So this is the challenge is that because my business relies on leads that are generated through social media, you know, that also then links to content, right? So I have to produce content that generates leads. And so for me, unfortunately, scrolling through social media is a requirement for trends and the types of content I create. I want to use things like trending audio sounds or music or whatever it is. So it forces me to be on the platform. I can't say that I've mastered this because there are days where I might scroll for hours and I'm like, what? I just like, it's like three hours in my life. I can't get back. What did I just do? Like, it's hard for me to answer that question because I don't think I found the balance per se right now because also with social media, once you start posting, if you want to continue increasing engagement or, you know, the algorithm favoring your platform, you can't stop. And that's the problem. It's like a machine that's been turned on, and if you want to ride this train, you got to keep posting. So that's what's challenging about social media is that they penalize you if you just take some time off. So for me, yeah, there are times where I know for a fact it's not good for me. It's like, okay, if I don't find a bunch of stuff right now, then I don't have things to work off of, and then it's snowball. So it's just like this. It's a constant thing that I battle with, for sure. Yeah. And there is so much value in you sharing just that. Hey, you're using social media as a tool really, really well. You're super successful at gaining traction, gaining followers. And I think what's crazy is people just assume that anyone in the same position as you has it all figured out. The real answer is, hey, all we're trying to do is do our best each and every day. And sometimes that means, hey, like I sucked today and I failed at my goal of not getting lost in it. I think there's value to sharing just that. And not enough people talk about the failures because there are so many success stories. Chris. Yeah. The final question I'm going to hit you with today, and this one is a big one. Tell me about the value of tattoos and personal art on your brand because it's such a big part of it. Yeah. So my handle beyond the tats, I came up with that because I think a lot of people, myself included at a younger age, or even maybe sometimes now it's because I think it's natural to do this. But it's very easy to judge people based on appearance. You have preconceived notions by all sorts of visual cues or visual things. And I think too often people will look at me and assume a lot of things about me. And so my handle is really just trying to say that I'm more than these tattoos. Yes, they're an expression of me and the things I like in my life, but they don't define me per se. And a lot of people, I'll admit this, I'm not approachable, right? If there was like a, I don't know if there's a resting bitch face for dudes, but I guess that's like equivalent to what I have where people just don't approach me, right? And I think it's also because I'm heavily tattooed, you know, I've tattooed to my face, my head, my neck, my hands, you know, so it's, it's, look, I don't blame them when I was young and I saw someone with like a tattoo in their face. I was like, Oh, like that's intense, like they're probably really, really intense. And then when people get to know me, it's like, I'm going to see Taylor Swift in December. Like, come on, I mean, it's people, it's just easy to get, you know, judge things. So, you know, for me, it's, it's always been that, right? People don't know, people might look at me and they don't realize that, you know, I'm an identical triplet. I'm a Korean adoptee, my whole family's white and I like, they wouldn't know that, right? It's important for me to, and that's I think also what stems from the content that I produce, right? Is to showcase a side of my personality that you would never know by just looking at me. So, yeah. I love that so much because there is so much value in people hearing that side of you and knowing that behind the tattoos, behind this personal trainer is a great human being who, I mean, is doing great work in starting conversations is so, so positive. And at the same time, it's so complex. You've shared so much about everything that you've been through, as well as the incredible things that you're doing today. So, I just want to thank you for taking the time to share your story. We love you and we appreciate everything you bring to the table, brother. Well, I appreciate the time and this was a great conversation. Yeah. We cannot wait to hear from you next time and thank you guys for listening.