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Two Peas in a Podcast

Episode 96 - Clayton Shay

Clay is a Nashville-based artist known for his clever, narrative songwriting that fuses elements of pop & alt-rock into a country sound. His songs explore the ups and downs of romance: love, loss, lust, and everything in between. Clay's song "Signed, Another Man" went viral during the pandemic and hit over 13,000,000 plays to date.


To connect with Clay please reach out directly to:

https://www.claytonshay.com/

https://www.instagram.com/claytonshaymusic/

Duration:
41m
Broadcast on:
05 Sep 2024
Audio Format:
mp3
I mean, holy smokes, brother, you are so, so talented and I'm so excited to be talking to you today. Thank you so much for sharing your valuable time with me and our audience brother. Thank you for having me. I appreciate you. Dude, I'm so excited to have this conversation with you because any time that I'm on a screen or in a room with someone way more talented than me, I just go, what is it that goes on in your mind that makes you so, so good. Talk to me about when you knew that the music was your passion and that you were on a trajectory to be good. Well, first of all, thank you for your kind words. I live in a town full of nothing but talented musicians, so I appreciate you saying that. I think it's difficult to pinpoint an exact time, but I think it was a series of events that led up to a realization for me that that was my calling if you want to call it that. When I was little, going to county fairs and festivals and seeing the local bands play and just the energy of that music and the entertainment aspect of things always called to me. The music, no doubt, called to me too. When I was four, I think, I started kind of just dabbling around them. My grandma's piano and her basement and just feeling the music and hearing the music, it was captivating. I would get lost in that piano for hours and hours and hours. I never got that good at piano, but just hearing the notes was enough for me. Then somewhere along the way, I decided I wanted to be a clinical counselor, I wanted to go to school for that, and then I made a realization that I could do what I wanted to do with that and music still. That's kind of how I approach songwriting a lot of times is like, either how can I challenge someone's perspective or help them through something or make them feel something that I feel or at least have them relate to a certain thing that I've gone through and make them feel like they're not alone or the only person that's experienced a certain thing. That's kind of what led me to where I am now, I guess. I love that. I love that because it sounds like music has been a part of your life since early childhood. One of the coolest things about talented people is it's as much talent as it is consistently hard work and sticking with it because I feel like there's a lot of talented people who could be doing something in music, but just somewhere along the way lost their passion. At what point did you realize that you were talented enough to potentially make a living in music and keep doing this for as long as possible? That's a really good question. It was probably somewhere along 16, in between 16 and 18 probably, I started playing at bars. Let me back up, I picked up the guitar when I was probably 12 and I started just dabbling around. You learn your chords, you learn how to change between them fluently and then I feel like there's two paths from there, at least in my viewpoint. Once you learn how to play chords fluently, you either go this way and you start playing leads and you start diving into the guitar really deep or you start singing over top of those chords. I started singing over top of those chords and I was like, "Oh, I don't need to learn how to get any better guitar. This is all I need." But from there, basically, I found a group of guys and they wanted to play around the local bar scene and I was young and green and so we played anyone's bar that would let us basically. I saw the money we were making from that, which was not much, but I was like, "I could just do that on my own just by myself and clean up so I instead of doing two or three shows a weekend by myself." I did have a day job as a server, as a waiter and eventually I dwindled my days as a server down to one day a week and then eventually I was like, "I don't even need to do that job. I can just do that." I was back in the day as probably 10 years ago, making just enough to get by and that's all I needed. I love that. I love that because there is this story here of continuously working and making sure that this is a craft that you're honing in on. What were some of those first experiences like being on stage, knowing that as awesome as a music is, part of it is also the performance, part of it is drawing people in by the presence that you have on stage. Some of the first moments on stage were like, I guess I don't know how to explain it other than time freezing and just being absolutely captivated by the moment of giving people an experience, that's what it's all about at a live show. I probably wasn't as good at that in the early... I was very glued to my guitar, very glued to the microphone, just like, deliver this song as well as you can and that's it, but somewhere along the way I was like, "You got to move around and give them a little something." I was always very intimidated by the idea of working a stage, but I saw some guys do it that I was like, "Ah, they're not doing anything crazy. They don't have to do anything crazy. You just... You be comfortable up there and you make them comfortable and you just move around a little bit." I found my own version of that somewhere along the way and I think, yeah, it comes somewhat naturally to me working a stage and so I guess that's also kind of why I feel like that's where I belong. Yeah, and I like that message because at the end of the day, you don't need to re-enort the wheel, right? There's been a bunch of great artists before you who kind of at least laid the blueprint of being both a personality as well as making great music and combining that talent with the things that they do on stage. As you move through your career and you start making music, who have been some of the biggest inspirations for you? Good question. I think I have different inspirations in different areas of music for myself. Like songwriting, performance, vocal ability, playing, instrumentation. I'll say it's been, I've been listening to a lot of Tucker Bethard's stuff. I don't know if you're familiar with him at all. He's of the country rock, Vayne, amazing songwriter and I would say more recently he's been extremely inspirational for me because I've been in this kind of transitional phase for myself. Before we started recording, I was telling you about how I took a year off from releasing music because I was getting a little lost in the sauce of cover show world. I was starting to lose track of what kind of music I actually liked. I stopped listening to music for the most part. I was just listening to podcasts and so I took a little bit of a break from even listening to music but I had a buddy recommend Tucker Bethard's stuff to me and I had listened to it before but I was at the gym and I was getting back into falling in love with music again a little bit and I was listening to an album a day at the gym. That was my goal was like listening through an album, just digging for inspiration and influence and I listened to Tucker's album and it just like just drew me in in a way that I hadn't felt in a long time. So if I do meet him eventually I will thank him for that because I don't want to say it saved me because that's a little dramatic. It gave me like it brought a lot of passion back into what I'm doing and gave me kind of like a trajectory for my music moving forward a little bit like something to aim at. Yeah. Not to copy but to like find my own version of you know so he's been extremely inspirational for me. Love that. Now talk to me about the difference between a good album and a bad album from an artist perspective. Okay. You know to like to a casual music observer you have this thing whether you either like something or you don't but at the end of the day every artist has a different vision for what it is that they're looking for and it's so interesting getting an artistic perspective on what it is that you see that we might not be able to understand. Yeah so I think it's about the level of care and attention to detail in my opinion and this is all going to be my opinion so thank you for what you will. I think the second you start cutting corners you start sacrificing quality whether it's song from the songwriting or the album art or the recording process or any of it you know the content used to promote it. The second you start cutting corners you sacrifice quality and I always preach this mantra of songwriting the only thing that separates an amazing song from like an okay song is how much do you care because we all have the same words at our disposal like the number one songwriters don't have different words than us. The melodies are all available to us as well so it's really just about how much are you going to challenge yourself and how much are you going to settle like how much are you going to be like oh yeah that's good enough let's move on or how much are you going to be like no I think we can do better than that and not to the point of where you never get anything done because you can do that too you can question things to the point we never get it done but I think that by consistently over time asking yourself could this be better eventually you're going to arrive at a place that's the best thing you could ever do and you still quite and you still ask yourself could it be better when you get there I love that message so much because at the end of the day it feels like all you're doing is just trying your best to put out the best work possible yeah people people ask me sometimes like hey man like how do you write a good song and I'm like that's such a loaded question but this most simple answer is just do it a lot just do it right tons are really bad songs but care the entire time about it you know just care about getting better it's like with anything you know podcasting yep like you're not gonna be amazing at the first time you ever do it for sure but the more you do it the better you get so here is a question that I got for you to follow up on that part of becoming good at anything is making sure that you do enough of it to stay consistent to get better along the route how do you judge whether you're a songwriting especially over a long period of time is getting better and if it's you know resonating with the audience better than the songs that you've written before great question you know we live in a world of social media dominance where it's easy to allow the success of a post to dictate whether you think a song is successful or not so it's very easy a very slippery slope to fall into that trap so for me the only true thrush the only true gauge or like threshold for me is my past songwriting from my perspective not the success of the song not how many people has reached or anything like that but like I guess just analyzing it from a critical standpoint of myself like looking back at the quality of songwriting in the past to now you know I'm my only competition and that's the way I've tried to view it don't get me wrong I listen to all the hits too and I look at what how they do things and what they do and I am I am easily sucked into the comparative side of things so along this last year's journey if you want to call it that of me like figuring things out for myself as an artist that has been something I've been drilling into my head is like hey you're your only competition don't look at what other people are doing you know praise them like you know support them all of that stuff don't feel any kind of envy or jealousy but it's just about internally like am I getting better and it's kind of subjective I guess because better the word better is subjective you know it's art so one person might like something I did in the past better than what I'm doing now and so from their gauge it's like I used not getting better but to me it's like am I communicating my song ideas better and a smoother conversational way are the melodies getting better and more interesting am I am I putting my finger on something that's uniquely me and not copycatting anyone because there's a lot of that too obviously you have influence but yeah that's that's my best answer for that yeah I love that I got one more hard question for you and it's this I'm liking these questions by the way thanks man here is the hard question every art project feels like if you just give it a little more love maybe it could be better how do you find the delicate balance between saying hey the project is ready to go and I am finally ready to release it and being on the other side of that being like hey this is good but maybe it could be great you know I'm I'm a bit of a perfectionist to the point of where it's caused me to take way too long to get music out in the past maybe even this year I've taken being an example of that but I think it was also very necessary for my soul for me to like get things right in my head and but to answer your question I think for me if a song sticks around long enough if I if it keeps coming back to me kind of like my single that I put out this last Friday mind of its own it's one I wrote I want to say in 2022 I think or maybe it's 21 even but it was one that just every time I'd get in the car I'd be playing it just to listen to it love that excuse me and if I start to hear production from it and if I start to think about like hearing it playing in other people's cars and you know just like visualizing those things I guess then it to me is like a no-brainer at that point my gauge used to be will this song go viral will other people like it kind of thing but I've along this year's time period of chilling out and figuring things out I kind of decided that like the music that I released needs to be for me first and foremost and that they used to strike me as a selfish way to view it but I was reading a book by Rick Rubin and he talks about like serving the art has to serve the artist first and foremost otherwise take away success like you know would you release this song if there was no one else on the planet if that's the art that you need to put out that you feel so compelled to get out of you that you feel like you just have to get it out that's the kind of stuff that I want to put out I love that I love that and what a great piece of advice by one of the best of all time and you know one of the craziest things specifically with Rick is that I feel like there's always a message in everything that he does that the greatest artists are the one who do the thing and live their life how do you find an awesome balance in your life between making sure that you do enough things to have great experiences to get motivated by and at the same time not being too over consumed by the music to still live your life and enjoy the experiences. It is an ongoing scene. You know when I first moved to town I didn't understand how this town worked. Everyone's working at some point always even at nighttime there's people in studios working away and I quickly caught on and I was like oh I need to I need to fill my calendar up so I shocked it full every single day double some you know double rights you know playing downtown everything as full as I could get it for probably a couple years and I'm glad that I did that because it was like my apprenticeship in the songwriting not that I'm out of that yet I think I'm always going to be learning but anyway somewhere along the line I realized that's not sustainable and it's not a healthy way to approach it so picking up hobbies I love the golf I will do it any chance I get I'm a back to a little messed up right now so I'm not golfing but you know just finding other passions and to be honest with you I probably could be better about it I need to find another I've been meaning to do this it's about my list like another artistic passion that allows me to get that stuff out of me in another way that's not music like whether it's photography or drawing or whatever I've been meaning to do that because I think it is important to express yourself in other ways other than just one outlet but yeah I had a buddy of mine Josh Phillips actually told me one time he's like dude you gotta you gotta listen when your head's saying that you don't want to do something like you gotta not do that because you'll start to hate it and you'll start to resent it and that's kind of where I got this last year playing some of these cover shows I thought that I was working towards something by touring like that and you know I know really wasn't because I was going and playing these shows to you know sometimes really really huge like big crowds and really fun crowds but just not enjoying it because it's 90% other people's music and then 10% mine and then when you throw your music in there they all turn to zombies and they don't care and then the next song you come back with a Morgan Wallen song and they're right back with you so yeah I like listening to my head to of like making sure that the balance is right I love that you took this time away to figure yourself out because that feels like it's just part of the artistic journey so let me ask you this what did you learn in this year that you stepped away about both yourself and the music that you want to be making there's a lot there's a lot and there's probably some things of our said so I might repeat myself a little bit here but mostly mostly from like an artistic releasing standpoint you know making sure that I love the music because there's there's some music that I've released that I was so caught up in like oh this sounds like Morgan Wallen or this sounds like whoever you know people love this for this reason and not making sure that I loved it and that was representing me as an artist first and foremost so I've I've been given like kind of a new lease on life in that regard like I've been in a certain way like falling back in love with music again because I've I'm looking at it from the perspective of like I have this new fresh start of like every time I write a song I'm gonna be asking like is this me something that I would release is this you know something that I actually love and also along that way like I've been you know everybody in this town worries about like the timeline of things like how quickly can I get there and why is this person rising up way faster than me and what am I doing wrong and all this stuff and I've kind of just decided to like do my best and try to my best to not worry about that basically yeah it's easy it's very easy to get caught up in but I think I'm in this music thing now permanently there's there's always been that thing looming in the back of my mind I think I told you a little bit ago like school like a clinical counseling called to me in a certain way too and there's always been that thing in the back of my mind like hey you could go back and it would be like two more years of school and you'd have a really good job and be doing something else that you really love but uh this like music has given me experiences like I've never thought that I would have the feeling of getting a song down that feels different and special like I don't know if I'll ever beat that feeling I'm just I think I'm in this for good so that is like comforting in a way to know hey if it takes 10 years if it takes 20 years we're gonna leave behind a legacy of music that I feel like is important and that I cared a lot about so that's another thing I guess yeah I also yeah but also finding finding that balance of like what we're just talking about of making sure that I'm not I care a lot about about this stuff I obsess about it night and day it's it's really all I think about but finding like a healthy relationship with it has been important otherwise the roller coaster of this industry will keep you down here if you care too much if you just start looking around and you're like man my stuff's not going viral and it must suck because it's not going viral and you know all that all those negative feedback loops you can get into so yeah keeping myself right in my head and one more thing I'll say too that's not really totally music related but I've just really been focusing on like my health and this year being on the road it does not lend itself to being healthy in any way lots of bad habits that you pick up lots of sleepless nights and bad food and lots of booze and other things so yeah I've just really been focusing on making sure like my vehicle is working properly yeah I love that and there's so many questions that are gonna stem out of this and here's the first direction that I want to go in first and foremost mental health is the key to everything that you do because you are in the most talented town in America potentially in the world trying to do this really really hard thing that it feels like everyone is trying to do but very few actually get successful at when things don't pan out your way how do you stay grounded enough to know that you're super talented that you're still on the right path but sometimes projects don't work out and there is a next opportunity that's just waiting around the corner yeah yeah that is something that is an ongoing battle for sure um like I said I care so much about the music I pour my heart and soul into it I think there's a lot of people in this industry that are doing music and you know social media because for the sake of recognition and like not there in my opinion not the right reasons like I serve the music first and foremost like and it serves me back but like I just want to make a difference with the music and I don't really care about getting like famous or rich or anything like that if that happens as a side effect along the way that's cool but I just care a lot about the music being really good and getting out to as many people as possible so along that way it's easy for when it doesn't do well to get trapped in that thought of it not being good and your best effort not being good enough and things like that but I guess I've leaned on some of my my artists and songwriter friends my girlfriend's been great too but she has to tell me those things yeah but I mean so I'm very much I'm not an optimist I'm not a pessimist I don't think I'm somewhere in the middle I'm a realist I think and so I like people who are real with me but I have some good buddies who are just like hey man you know this industry is tough and that song is always going to be there it just because it didn't blow up doesn't mean it's not a good song doesn't mean that doesn't make a difference and if three singles from now a song blows up those songs will be there for people to listen to so I find some comfort in that but like I said it is an ongoing battle of staying grounded for sure did I love that I love that because this is the important story for people to hear before you experience any level of success there are a lot of these failures that are small failures in the grand scheme of things but there's a lot of doubt there's a lot of who the hell knows what that just creeps in your mind because you don't know if you're on the right path but the best of the best just always stick with it knowing that the next good opportunity the next good writing experience the next good song is just on the other side of it stick yeah yeah sticking with that pattern tell me about the one that did stick and the one that did blow up yeah so uh and another man is my my second single that I put out back in 2020 during the pandemic so a weird time for music obviously but you know tik tok was kind of reaching its shindo peak I guess if you will and so I was like trying to find ways to to be myself on there and post regularly and I just started posting clips of the music video for sign to the man because I was like I was noticing the things that were going viral and I was like I don't want to do those things like that just you know there's some level of like selling your soul on that on the apps it's like do I want to do a dance to a song or do I want to like find a way to make my music reach people so the music video of my buddy Andy Paulot shot and then he just absolutely crushed it so I was like I need to find a way to get this to people and so started like taking the most uh but I thought we're like viral moments but I also was putting tons of time into that I'll just cut them out put like a super uh capturing title on it whoa what did I do there I have no idea I have no parts I like that whoa nice and so you know it just one went viral one got like 800 000 views and I had to link in my in my tik tok to my youtube to the full music video and the music videos went bonkers it is around 10.8 million views now wow um which is insane and it's translated to the streaming as well too so it's I've been very fortunate with that how quickly did that happen and how quickly did the song pop off from the time that you started putting out these videos and seeing an opportunity of potentially capitalizing on the moment yeah so it was fairly quick you know so youtube has I don't know if you know this but for those listening also youtube has what's called the click-through rate that kind of dictates the basically means how often are people clicking through to see your video from somewhere they're clicking on your thumbnail basically or they're clicking on a link to go to your thumbnail then they click on the thumbnail but anyways like a good click-through rate is like four percent mine hit like 85 percent wow at one point in time and so youtube freaked out and they're like this saw this video is something we need to promote internally so it was going on like sand in my boots like after you know after sanding my boots to play I'd be like Simon of the man right here this just started promoting it on like the biggest videos and stuff so then that catapulted it further into virality and so at the peak I was getting like 30,000 views a day on it which is pretty pretty awesome and it's trickled way down from that sense it floats around like 5,000ish a day now which is great still but it was you know it was very quick I noticed it I didn't know it was going to do what it did I still am like kind of blown away that it did but it was like you know opening TikTok up and having the 99 plus at the bottom where the notifications are every hour I was like all right something's happening here sometimes every 10 minutes even sorry you said your question was how quickly did it happen and how did you build off of that is that we was that we were asking me yeah well I'm just interested in the direction I got lost I got lost in my answer it's crazy because a lot of people who don't understand how this works and how the algorithm works is that when when something goes viral and something just starts popping off and having really really good click through rate it feels like the algorithm keeps driving it moving in that direction and a lot of people just don't understand that you know there is this mechanism behind social media and how it works and as an artist like you know you've experienced success you're clearly very very talented but that level of success is mind-blowing how crazy is it knowing that millions not hundreds of thousands of people have heard your song and have now some name recognition for you as an artist it's honestly tough to wrap my head around I really can't even envision 10.8 million people in my head like I don't even know what that would look like it's it's kind of like very humbling honestly is what it is like I said this has all been about caring about the music and it reaching people and the comments that like if you ever get a chance to scroll through the comments in that music video it's there's some haters there's always going to be some haters but they're overwhelmingly and the majority of them are like very touching and people saying like this song whatever saved my saved my marriage or got me through my breakup or whatever it is you know and it's uh it's just very humbling and it's insane I love that and I love that you understand the gravity of the situation that your music changes not only how people feel but the trajectory of their life by you know helping them with whatever it is that they're dealing with what are some of the messages that you're writing into your music today that you want to convey in the songs that you put out well I'm I'm a bit of in the figuring that out phase right now um but of some of those things I have a song called broken home and it's written from my experience growing up in a broken home and this kind of like you know when I was seven my my parents split and my siblings kind of just went all over the country I'm the youngest of five kids and so that had a major impact on me but it took a long time for me to realize like how that was affecting my relationships as an adult the inability to see things as being permanent and I honestly didn't realize it until I had this title on my phone broken home for a while and I had no idea what to do with it and I was in a room one day with a couple of buddies of mine and they were throwing out a song idea talking back and forth and I was just in my own world looking at this title on my phone like dissecting it and just like kind of clicked with me like the the tagline is it's hard to see anything set in stone when you come from a broken home and it being about just like to get very personal I was saying things to my girlfriend like when I get a house someday or when I have kids someday rather than like when we do and it was bothering her and she brought it up to me and I felt really bad about it I was like I don't know why I do that and I just like through some series of events arrived at this conclusion of like oh it's because I didn't have that growing up I didn't see people stick around a lot and so I think that message applies to like you know relates to a lot of people it's probably one of the most heartfelt songs one of the most personal songs that I've I've written and I think that's important because that level of vulnerability vulnerable you know I'm saying vulnerability that's a hard word to say I got you out with you I think it's important because I think people see the artist being vulnerable and for you to set that precedent of like hey it's okay for us to talk about our feelings kind of thing it's like you're doing it on that scale so it's like for them it makes it easier I think so I guess I haven't heard a song written in that way before and so to me that one feels special because it's like it's different than it's not the same program and it's a new problem that level of being vulnerable I think is important because it allows people to do the same and in the same regard it's kind of like exploring a new problem that maybe people haven't touched on with music before so I think that's important too yeah as a man and as an artist what is it like knowing that you're putting your heart and soul out there for the crowd to judge especially knowing that regardless of what you do there are just some shitty people who will have negative feedback to every single thing that you do you mentioned a little bit ago being a fan of Joe Rogan he said it really well one time and it stuck with me like you're gonna have a certain percentage of assholes always of haters um and it scales if you have 10 percent haters and you show something to a million people you have a hundred thousand haters that's a lot of haters yeah it's gonna feel like an overwhelming amount a standard of man has seen 10.8 million people there's a lot of hate on that video honestly I've just rewired my brain to look at it as a success indicator you gotta go look at the comments on the side of the man because I had a man bun at the time I had long hair yeah I had hair down to here yeah at the time and I have a man bun and the back I got wet back here in the hat and the comments are just hilarious hey you did that on to yourself so many man bun comments um and they they bothered me initially like whenever I first said that first spike of like virality I guess because all of a sudden I have 30,000 new eyes on my thing every day and I'm getting you know 10 percent of that as haters like that I'd never experienced that level of hate before but I eventually rewired it and I was like at least they come with the territory it's okay yeah they're keyboard warriors and I have fun with them sometimes but I don't always I try to remember like hey even though they're hating on the video they could be fans they you could convert them so I try to find I try to find funny and entertaining ways to to point out their how ridiculous they are basically and most of the time they're like they realize I'm being a good sport and they like you know comment back like ah you're you're cool man like I'll give you a follow or whatever it's like whatever I love that just having good attitude now you already mentioned that health is a big part of you know this journey that you've been on last year and making sure that you're doing hard things outside of just music what are some of the best recovery tools both for your voice and for keeping your mind in tune to make sure that you're able to create good music and memory well first before recovery it's don't don't smoke a pack of sigs in a weekend for me that's a good lesson yeah don't drink like an idiot and don't smoke a pack of sigs but if you don't do that the recovery is not usually that bad but above and beyond that it's like sleep is probably the most important one like if you can get a full night's sleep then you'll recover way faster tons of water eating good foods and then working out I mean all those things I also have like my own little ritual like when I get back from the road I always the day I get back eat like super spicy food I feel like I'll just sweat out sweat out my demons but yeah it's just I mean the harder you go time of the shows the more the recovery is going to be I've been trying to keep that in my mind because I have had a tendency in the past to go pretty hard hey that's part of finding your art and just being an artist now this might be a loaded question and I promise it's a final one because this one is a far out one okay before you I know you're still early on into your career and I know you're planning on making a hell of a lot of music to share with us but before you step away what kind of a legacy do you want to leave behind when you think about this body of art that you are creating now that you are getting more aligned with what it is that you want to accomplish yeah I I hope to never step away I hope to have like uh willy nelson riding out into the sunset kind of thing you know love that not that I want to play shows that long the way that I envision it now is like willy's iconic don't get me wrong by any means but it's like hey go enjoy the last days you have somewhere like I get maybe the stages where he enjoys life the most but I don't know I guess at that point in time I'd love to be like in a cabin somewhere just writing songs whenever I want to and doing whatever of them but um I guess what I want to leave behind is just a legacy of music that made a difference and like something that's authentically and identifiable as me you know like very much me and not like you know obvious I want people to see my influences within what is me but yeah I want them to be like that that stuff made a difference and it was important and we needed it yeah I love that clay I appreciate you as a human being I appreciate you so much as an artist before we wrap up the show today tell us one more time about your new single and we are so so excited to listen to the new music and for everything and all the projects that you have coming out yeah so I released my first single back into this new batch of music this last Friday it's called mind of its own it's available everywhere it's one of those songs I was telling you earlier just stuck with me forever and I couldn't escape it every time I got in the car I'd be listening to it so hopefully it feels that way to other people too and I've got another one in the chamber called called it's very late 90s 2000s rock mixed with some country vibes and maybe some like pop punk vibes in their kind of two love it very different coming out that's to be determined I'm hoping by the end of this month but it will be the next one and it will be within four to six weeks basically and then I'm hoping to do every four to six weeks from here on indefinitely until until I feel the need to maybe take a break again and focus back on the writing and trajectory of you know my songwriting and artistry but yeah it's it's good time I love that I love that you're always working and I am so so happy that we got to share the time today but more importantly we're so excited to do work together long term because you are so so talented and I just admire you as an artist and I know that the future is so much brighter than anything that you've already put out oh thank you buddy I appreciate that yes sir and thank you guys for listening we'll see you next time