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Visit maxlawevents.com for full event details and to grab your ticket today. Run your law firm the right way. This is the maximum lawyer podcast. Your hosts, Jim Hacking, and Tyson Nutrips. Let's partner up and maximize your firm. Welcome to the show. All right, welcome back to the maximum lawyer podcast. It's just me, Tyson, and I'm here with Chelsea Lamy. And we've been chatting a little bit. I've had my little bit of nafu, so I was setting up my laptop to do this interview and I stabbed my screen, setting up my mounts. So there's been a little bit of a fun adventure over the last six minutes or so, but Chelsea, how you doing? I'm doing great. Thank you so much for asking. And thanks for having me on. I'm really excited to be here again. Absolutely. I can't wait to get to talk about what you have going on with the Paralyga Law School and all that, because I think it is a brilliant idea. And so I want to talk about that a little bit. I do want to give people a little bit of your background so that they have an idea as to who we're talking to. We did do a previous episode. Do you remember the episode number? I actually don't have it in front of you. I'm a naughty guest. I didn't double check. Yeah, so at the time you were running a PI practice down in Mexico, which is pretty cool. You were now, I think, you said three weeks into Spain. You have three weeks to go into Spain. Okay, so it's been an interesting journey. But that's not your actual bio. Your actual bio is Chelsea Lamy knows what it takes to build a successful law from the right people and the right processes. But in the fast paced world of plaintiff personal injury, most firm owners don't have the time or energy to train their paralegals on the basics of personal injury law or best practices for handling PI cases. That's where Chelsea comes in. Chelsea is a former insurance adjuster and a former insurance defense attorney with 15 plus years of practicing plaintiff personal injury exclusively. You can trust Chelsea to teach your team. And I'm going to cut the bio there. There's definitely more to it because I want to build a jump right into it. It's funny because we just, our firm just got done doing a, there's a couple things we did. We created last year a case manager, which is essentially a paralegal. We had a case manager training course that we created. We just did an attorney boot camp. And I honestly, I wish I would have thought about, I'm not sure if you even had it yet, but last year, but I wish I would have known about it or remembered it that you had the paralegal training course because it, it would have saved me a tremendous amount of time. So, so I guess what you, I'm assuming you had the same concerns that I did about getting your training people trained. Is that how this all started or how did you start? Like, what made you want to start this in the first place? Sure. Well, I mean, I've been running my own PI law firm, essentially for the last 15 plus years. I've been doing personal injury, plaintiff side exclusively. And, you know, we would hire great people. Some of them had a lot of technical skills, but they didn't maybe have, you know, the, they weren't following the processes we wanted them to follow or opposite. They were great. They'd follow any process you give them, but they didn't have the basic knowledge. And I just found, you know, over and over, I haven't always had my own firm. I've been a partner in other firms and been an associate in firms many years ago. There's not a, there's not like a universal training, right? Like, you don't come in to most personal injury law firms where they welcome you with, you know, open arms and say, welcome, we're going to teach you everything you need to know about personal injury. Let's start with an insurance policy. Here's how you read what most people just get thrown into it, right? And it's not our fault. We're law firm owners. We're busy. We're keeping the lights on, keeping payroll going, you know, to keeping the cases coming in, thinking about teaching someone the very basics of personal injury and then building on that all the way to the intricacies of Medicare and Medicaid planning. And, you know, lead resolution. You know, these are things that most law firm owners, one, don't have the time or the energy or the desire to do. Or two, don't even have the training materials or sort of the plan on how to do this. So we have all of that. We have the time, we have the energy, we have the passion. And most importantly, we have the materials. And we're able to take what I've had people, you know, who've been practicing paralegals for years who have come to me after our eight hour course and said they got more out of that eight hour course than they got the last eight years of training working in personal injury law firms. And we hear this over and over again. But it came out in this necessity. We had to train our own people. And as we were doing this and building this fantastic course and materials, we thought gosh, we've created a course in materials. We need to share this with the world. So that's what we've been doing for the last year. Yeah, I don't know if this is the number one thing I hear, but I hear one of the top 10 at least is I don't have time to train them. That's the thing I hear all the time. And, you know, this is from a selfish standpoint, I would feel much better about paying to have someone do your course than to take the time to actually, if I hadn't created something, right, let's say I'm just starting from scratch. I would rather have paid to have them go through your course than us spend all the time to train them because it is an immense amount of time. It's a big time suck. So it cost me more money to train them on the front end than it would to just have someone else do it. So I think it's an amazing need. And you aren't right because there's a lot of overlap. And I had this conversation with several PI attorneys because we thought about what we talked about doing was teaming up and what we'll do is you take negotiations and you take demand letters, you take collecting medical records, and we'll kind of train everybody generally. And then there's specific nuances from state to state. But with that, because there are some general principles, but where have there been some issues where maybe one firm wants to do things differently than another firm or the nuances of case law in one state makes it a little bit more difficult. Like do you run into any of those issues when it comes to training people generally from state to state? Sure. So our general training programs, as you can imagine, pretty much apply universally, right? Prelet, lid, you know, if we don't get into the specifics of does your state have PIP or not have PIP? If we just keep broad, you know, brush strokes, the material pretty much is the same for every state. Where we see differences are where some law firms want state-specific training. And if they want state-specific training, we can provide that. And most of our trainings are virtual, right? So about 90% of what we do is virtual. However, if you want an in-person training, we do actually offer that. And we also offer in-person or virtual state-specific. So, of course, we need a heads up. We need to, you know, work with an attorney in your firm to just double check our research, because I'm obviously not licensed in all 50 states. We're going to double check our statute limitations. We're going to double check, you know, proposals for settlement, what you call them, your PIP, your med pay issues. But that takes usually less than an hour of the head paralegal or the associate attorney's time. And we're able to just double check everything that we have and create a very state-specific program. We can even create a specific program where we merge, you know, if you have some training materials that you like, or you have a system that you want to be incorporated into the training, we can do that as well. And we've found that very successfully in about seven different states now for law firms. That's pretty impressive. I didn't know any of that part of it. That's really interesting. I had no idea. So I think people get the basic idea of what you offer. So I want to kind of shift gears a little bit, because I'm interested about the business side of this, too, with you doing this. So how -- I mean, you had to have pretty good systems to have done this the way you've done it. So tell us -- talk about that a little bit, because I'm very interested about how you were able to set this up and then run it so smoothly. Sure. Well, for over the last 15 years, you know, I have been creating what I call our -- our internal Bible, right, our process and procedure manual. We would never, but we could take a stranger off the street, stick them in a chair, and they could use our 300-plus page PowerPoint that we have created over 15 years to do everything from answering the phone to signing up a new client to, you know, monitoring a pre-litigation case, sending out a demand all the way through pre-trial litigation. We have created basically this PI in a box system. And I actually sell it separately. It's called PI in a box, and it's all a 300-plus page PowerPoint, how to do everything every day, what you do, and it ties into over 200 pages of forms. All of our pre-litigation and litigation forms that are tied in, you know, on this day you send form number one C. So we created this and then just thought, gosh, we have this amazing, you know, material. What else can we do with that? And that's when we first started selling the PI in a box, and then that led to, well, okay, well, that's just, you know, on the business end, a one-time sale. You know, and that doesn't teach you the basics. It tells you, on this day, send this form. But it doesn't give you a deep and meaningful understanding. Of personal injury, you know, pre-legation or litigation. So that's the piece that we saw was missing sort of from that business perspective. And that's when we decided, let's just do an intensive eight-hour day. Let's teach, you know, people, everything they need to know about pre-litigation. And then, of course, we have a second eight-hour day that covers litigation. But that's how that sort of grew. We had these great materials, but we understood that the materials are great, but if you really want to have a deep and meaningful understanding and really succeed, it's best to sort of marry that with this, you know, virtual training. You know, you said something, and I want to make sure I understand. For the office manual, are you saying that that's all in basically one PowerPoint? Yes. We have a 300-page PowerPoint. I'm so mad right now because it is a brilliant idea. It's such a simple thing, but we have all of our trainings and separate power points. And honestly, they're formatted differently because I thought it was kind of cool. Okay, I don't want each PowerPoint to be the same. I want it to be, like, so I've painstakingly gone through, and especially with some of these, like, everything looks beautiful, but they're all different. And if I had just put them into the same thing, it would have been so much easier. It's like a keyword search. You can, you know, it just makes more sense that, you know, there's headlines that way you know what section to go to, and you can keyword search it. We just find that this one 300-page PowerPoint is, it works for us. So I guess this isn't quite a, you know, software as a service. It's not quite, it's not really a software. It is a, it's not really a course, right, because it is, but it isn't. It's just interesting because it's an interesting middle ground. So when you do these courses, are they live? Are they live courses? They are, they're live virtual, and we can, you know, we can make them private. If you want it just for your law firm, we can make it private live in person or live virtual. And if you want to save a little bit of money, you sign up, you know, into the group courses. And we offer these group courses every couple of months. For example, this month in September 2024, we're offering the pre-legation course. It's a one-day course on Friday the 20th of September. And then the following Friday, the 27th of September, we're doing the litigation course. So we often have these sort of big open call group courses that you can just sign up and send one person, or you can sign up and send 10 people, or you can say, "Forget that. I need it next Wednesday and we'll make it special for you." We have lots of people that are, like, I mean, maximum lawyer is a separate business, right? So it's pretty demanding. It takes a lot of my time, but it's worth it. Even one of our core values is about, you know, being leaders in our industry and then also in the communities that we serve. So it is an important thing to me, but it does take a lot of my time. I also have an injury firm that takes up a lot of my time. Like you and I have a lot of similarities when it comes to that. What would you say are some tips you'd have for people that are stretched like that, where they've got this side gig, and I know a lot of people talk about not doing side hustles and all that and make sure you're focused. To me, maximum lawyer is very rewarding. I'm sure that this is very rewarding to you as well. So, but how do you, what are your tips to people that are trying to do something that's similar when it comes to running some sort of side business or another, like, I wouldn't even call it maximum lawyer, a side business for me anymore. It doesn't sound like this is a side business for you. It's a core business that you're running. And so what are your tips to people that are trying to do the same thing? Well, the first thing is only do something you're passionate about, because if you don't really like it and you're not passionate about it, it's going to feel like a chore. It's going to feel like you have two full-time jobs. You're going to be miserable. For me personally, I've got kids now that are getting older. They're in school, you know, eight hours a day, then they're doing things after school. They're needing me less than less. And this is a season of my life where I felt like I could really expand what I was doing. And I, yes, I love my injury firm. Don't get me wrong. It pays the bills. It's a great firm. It's exactly where it's doing what I want it to do for me right now in this season of my life. And it involves fortunately because of how I've set it up in our great team and our great processes and systems. Very small amounts of my time, to be quite honest. So I wanted to sort of transition into this, I hate to say second half of my life. I'm getting older, but it's true. The sort of second half of my life or second half of my career to do something I'm truly passionate about. And for me, that's teaching. I never knew. I mean, who would have thought get, right? A trial lawyer is a teacher. Well, of course for teachers. That's what we do with juries, right? But I never really considered myself a teacher. And I never considered teaching paralegals or new to PI lawyers or virtual assistants. We teach all of these people. But I just have this passion for it and it turns out I'm pretty good at it. Everybody who comes, you know, is like, "Oh, you're a really good teacher and I really got in and I like what you did." So find something you're passionate about, delegate everything that you're not passionate about, and really just go for it. You know, I think I second guess myself a lot. I thought, "Oh, are people going to think the firm's not doing well because I'm doing something else?" 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And the best part, there's no obligation, no catch, no pressure. If you decide to work with them, their contracts are month-to-month. That's right. No long-term commitments tying you down. So, what are you waiting for? To learn more about how Rise Up Media can transform your firms, visit RiseUpMedia.com/MaxLaw and Rise is spelled with a Z. RiseUpMedia.com/MaxLaw If you're passionate about it, you're interested in it, you want to do it, just go for it. And also, you know, the first iteration was not the best, right? A year ago, the course was not as good as it is now. And that's okay, because you just have to get started. You know, done is better than perfect sometimes. And so, if you're on the fence, just do it, get it done, get something on paper, and then just make it better. And every time you do it, every time you teach, every time you do something, you just make it a little bit better. And it will be amazing. And even what you think, we're our own worst critics, right? So, you know, I sat through the first one and thought, oh, that was horrible. They're going to all ask for a refund. I did it all wrong. And everybody came back asking how to sign up for the second one, the litigation one. So, believe in yourself, do what you're passionate about. Delegate everything you don't want to do anymore. And make sure you, life is short. Do what you want to do and what you're passionate about. And for me, this is really the season of my life that I'm very excited about transitioning into this business. Why do you think more people don't create courses like this in the legal field? Why is that? I don't know. I mean, I think a lot of people don't think about it, right? For starters, like we're supposed to be lawyers, we're supposed to be bringing in cases and doing the work. So, that's just what we're trying to do. I also, like I said, I think there's a little bit of ego. I definitely will be the first to admit that, you know, I was like, are people going to think I don't have a seven-figure firm if I'm, you know, if I'm talking, you know, this program? And I thought, I don't really care what they think. You know, I want to do what I want to do. And I'm passionate about this. And I'm damn good at it. And it's going to help people. And nobody else was doing it. I didn't know if anybody else that was out there, you know, really training care, legal, virtual assistance, and new to personal injury attorneys in the basics of this, you know, this practice area. So I just said, I'm going for it. I want to do it. I can do it. And I did it. And I'm so glad I did it because it's been so rewarding. And it's really been an awesome business. And I'm enjoying sort of transitioning out of the day-to-day of the law firm even more and really just focusing on this new business. Yeah, I've stopped caring about what people think a long time ago, you know, because it's not helpful. But can we talk a little bit about how you've been able to step outside of the injury firm just so that it's running itself? Like, how are you able to set that up so that it doesn't need you as much? People? Processes. That's it. It's all about having the right people and the right roles and motivating them with what works for them. I don't know if we talked about it during my original Max Lawyer podcast. But every year, if we meet our goals, our revenue goals in my law firm, Florida Injury Attorneys, I take my entire staff and a plus one and we go anywhere in the world they want. So, like, I think two years ago was Santorini Greece. Last year was they wanted to go out west. They wanted to go to one of the state parks. But we've gone to, you know, we've gone to cruises. We've gone to Thailand. We've gone to Hawaii multiplies. So, you know, you just find what motivates your team. So you have the right people. You have them in the right world. Give them the motivation. And for my people, the motivation is money, travel, time. So, you know, we just create a place where they aren't micromanaged, where everybody loves what they're doing and is doing it at a very high level and working all together towards this goal, this big trip that they all want to go on. And then, of course, the other part is giving them the tools. So, you know, this 300-page PowerPoint, all of the hundreds of pages of forums that we have that are integrated into it. The training, investing in our people and making sure that they're not only taking our in-house trainings, but we're sending them out to other trainings as well. So, really, that's how I do it, is I just have the right people, the right processes, and I delegate, and I realize that I'm not as important as I thought I was for all of those years. I used to talk to every single new client. I used to think they were coming to the firm to talk to me. I now realize they're coming to the firm because they were referred to me, but they don't really need to talk to me. They just want to, you know, have a good experience. I haven't talked personally spoken with a new client in years because my team is so awesome. They answer all of the questions. They offer them to talk to me, and nobody wants to because my team is so good. They think, "Oh, you know, if Chelsea trusts them, I just had a great intake call. We're good to go." So, that's how I've been doing it. So, something I've learned is that you got to have, like, top talent. You got to have A players. I don't know if, you know, Cody Sanchez's, but she posted something today, and it was something like, "If you can't attract top talent, you're not top talent." That was a really interesting thing. Something I never thought about. So, I want to get your thoughts on that. So, if you can't attract top talent, you're not top talent. What are your thoughts on that? It's the first time I've heard it. It's catchy. I'll give her a hug. It's catchy, right? And that's really the half of the battle is getting somebody to hear something and, you know, repeat it. I really do think. I mean, I can see her. Is it a she? I don't want to misgender anybody. Yeah, Cody's a she. Perfect. So, I think it's really smart and interesting. I'd like to talk to her more about it to make sure I understand, you know, where she's coming from. But for sure, you know, we want top talent. So, we give fully remote work. We give decent pay. We give, I want to say, I think we're up to like 26 paid holidays per year. It's sort of a joke in our law firm. You know, it's like, "Oh, you have us to be." "I thought we were good. Wow. That's very good." We somehow turned like the day before and after Thanksgiving into a holiday. Yes, you need to prep and shop. And then you have to do the Black Friday shopping after, of course. We close down. We include in those 26, actually, I don't think we include in those 26 days. I think on top of that, we close from the 15th of December to the 3rd of January every year. So, you know, if you give people what they want, you're going to get the best people. We've never had a problem, you know, getting applications and getting people who are interested and excited and who want to work with us. Yeah, I'm frantically on my iPad trying to pull up all of our days off to see how many days, because I don't think I can beat it. But I know we can get close because we give, as long as we hit our 4th quarter goal, we get, I'm sorry, we had that our 3rd, we shifted it. It used to be the 4th quarter, which it was a little bit against my, I did not want to do it this way, but the leadership team wanted to do it so that people knew in advance whether or not they ran the time off. So, I acquiesced, but it used to be, if you hit your 4th quarter goal, we got the week between Christmas and New Year. So, now it's if we hit our 3rd quarter goal, then we get between Christmas and New Year. So, let's say it's 4 or 5 days, sometimes it depends on when the holiday falls, but then you get, I bet we're around 20. But then we also, people earn when we hit our quarterly goals, they get 2 days off, sometimes it's just 3 days off, depending on what we do. So, we're pretty darn close, I'd say. We're not quite 26, 26, that's really good, that's phenomenal. But what you said, though, you named off all the things, how you were able to attract top talent, I don't necessarily think it has to be that you're top talent, because of all the things you said. It's a combination about those things. I think that if you are top talent, it'll allow you to overcome some of those because you'll be able to, they'll want to learn from you, right? Or they'll want your firm name on their resume and want to be able to say, "Oh, I worked for Chelsea Lamey." That's one of those things where it helps, I think it's an important part of it, but there's definitely other factors that play into it. I want to ask about your time management, because it does take time management to be able to deal with the multiple things you're dealing with, especially when you have kids, and you're moving across the world, they're doing that thing. So, what does a typical day look like for you? A typical day? Well, typical day is getting up and getting the kids breakfast and out the door. I like to drop them off to school myself, and it's about a 20 minute drive. So, I will drive them to school, come back. By that time, it's about 10 a.m. because they start at Spain. They start school right here in the morning. They start, so I get home about 10. I'll do about two hours of work that I need to do, let's say, for the law firm. Then, of course, we have C.S. does, so I stop at noon, like everyone else, and for two hours, I'll go read a book in the hammock. I'll have lunch with him. Put away, wait, stop. That's a real thing. That is for real? It's for real. You can't go into a pharmacy, you can't go to the bank, you can't... Everything's closed, the bakery, like everything literally closes. It's not really noon. I think it's more like one to three in a lot of places, but still, it's for about two hours, two to three hours in the afternoon. Especially in these small towns, like where I live. I live an hour outside of the biggest city, the closest biggest city to me, which is Valencia, Spain. But yeah, there's no going to get gas, pharmacy. Everything shuts down for about two to three hours in the afternoon, and that's the time when people are going home. They're eating a big meal with their family. They are taking a nap. So I go out in my hammock. I read a book. I listen to music. I take a walk with my husband. We just put in an orchard, so we're picking figs and eating them. It's really pleasant to take that break and rest and recharge. And then I start back at around two, and now I'll transition. So if the morning was the law firm, the afternoon is going to be law school for paralegal. I might have an hour or two of work that I need to do. Maybe I'm talking to somebody about closing a deal to go in person to Miami to train 30 people on their staff. And then by four o'clock, I'm done. I try not to work more than four hours a day, two hours in the law firm, two hours in law school for paralegals. And then I will just get ready to pick up the kids from school, get them, come home, and do dinner and books and bedtime and bath and all the fun stuff that parents have to do on top of our other work. Do you have like a morning routine? What time do you get up and what's your morning routine? I'm curious. My morning routine is to sleep as long as I possibly can until I am forced to get out of bed by my alarm. Yep. Do you like go to the gym in the morning or anything like that? I'm just so curious. Do I look like I go to the gym a little more? Yes. You look like you're very healthy. You're very happy. No, no, I don't. It's bad. I know it's really bad. The only exercise we get here is we have three acres here with the orchard, like I mentioned. So we are pulling weeds. We're taking things up and down in the wheelbarrow. We're just picking up sticks and doing a little bit of yard work for fun here and there. That's my up and chasing my kids. My up two boys, eight and ten. So playing with them on the tennis court, swimming in the pool, they keep us pretty busy. I love how it's clear that you're very dedicated to family, which I think is fantastic too. I guess the last question before we can wrap things up is I'm very curious. I think you probably have something on the horizon, some project that you're working on. What is that next thing? I know there's something. There's got to be. How do you know these things? We seriously did not talk about this. We did that. I know there has to be. I just know it. Yeah. Well, I think a lot of attorneys were entrepreneurs, right, at heart. But what's really on the next horizon for me is sort of also a pot that I'm starting to boil is civil, personal injury mediations. I just got certified as a mediator in Florida. And I thought, what a great way to like sunset my career is to just be sitting in my hammock and blur the background and help the two different sides come together. So that's sort of the next thing that I'm starting to branch into. I just got my first one scheduled. I'm really excited. This is doing, yeah, doing mediations. It's going to be interesting with the time difference. I'm going to see how much I like it and how it's all going to go. But that's something I see is I sort of start winding down. I'm on a 15 year retirement plan now. So I want to start getting all of these different revenue streams and everything in line in order to start winding down what's been an amazing experience and career so far. Fantastic. All right. Before we wrap things up, I do want to give the link for anyone that's interested. Lawschoolforparalegals.com and if you type in max law, one word, and you have to tell me, I was given capital M capital L, but does that matter? I don't know if it does. I don't think it does. But if it doesn't work, just try any variation of it. If you have any problems, just reach out to me and we'll make sure you get the 10% discount. So for 10% off, go to lawschoolforparalegals.com type in max law. I have that it's capital M and capital L, but you can try a lower case as well. But like like like Chelsea said, if you have any issues, let us know and we'll get you that that 10% off. If people want to reach out to you, if they just have questions, how can they reach out to you? Chelsea at lawschoolforparalegals.com. All right. And before we get our tips and hacks of the week, so just as a reminder, we always ask our guests to give a tip or hack. Before I get to that, though, I want to remind everyone, if you're interested in the guild, go to maxlawgild.com. We have a lot of great people in the guild and we're going to Vegas soon and the next year is going to be Honolulu, New York City and Scottsdale. So we have a lot of great places we're going to next year. And then at some point, we're going to Tahoe. We have the next two years plan outs. We have a lot of cool places over the next Savannah, Savannah, Georgia. We're trying to pick like cool places that I need to go to. So we'll be doing that. And then, you know, if you're not ready for that, go to Facebook and join us in the big Facebook group to search maximum where you'll find us there. All right, Chelsea, what is your tip or hack of the week? If you're not happy, change. Change your life, change your attitude, change where you live. Do whatever you have to do to be happy because life is short and you only get one go around. There's no reduce. I do love that. That is absolutely right. You know, I wasn't going to give this tip, but I feel like I have to now because I don't try to mount your camera because I was going to use my phone because we use Camo, the Camo app. So I get a better picture than on my laptop. Don't try to mount it to your screen. Use the suction cup. I was the first time I'd ever tried it. I thought I'm talking. I barely turned the thing. It just was so quick. So don't do that. I just made a very expensive mistake. And so learn through me. Don't try to do that in eight years. Never tried it. And it just, you know what, I made the mistake. So don't make the same mistake as I did. So good ten. Yeah, Chelsea. Thanks so much for coming on. Really? I always love talking to you. So anytime you want to come on, let me know. Thank you so much. Thanks again. You bet. See you, buddy. Thanks for listening to the Maximum Lawyer Badger. To stay in contact with your host and to access more content, go to maximumlawyer.com. Have a great week and catch you next time. [MUSIC] Hey, before you go, stick with me for just a minute because I have a discount that is exclusive to maximum lawyer podcast listeners only. And I want to make sure you know about it. As you all know, it is absolutely crucial to stay on top of calls with clients, with court staff, with judges. I even had a client the other day say that the provider was calling him say that they've been trying to get ahold of us and they had left us a couple voicemails well. That's impossible to our firm because we don't have voicemails. It's extremely important to us that a live person answered the phone. And so we got rid of our voicemails a long time ago. 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