Two Peas in a Podcast

Episode 114 - Michael Morgan

Michael Morgan is a 30-year medically retired police offer having built a career in Suffolk County, NY and Atlanta, GA. Post retirement Mike started showing symptoms of depression and PTSD, which led in the footsteps of Navy SEALs, military personnel, and first responders using plant based medicines in their healing journey. After facing his PTSD head-first, Michael discovered his purpose of helping other first responders heal from trauma of their experience.

To connect with Mike directly please reach out to:

https://www.instagram.com/team_morgs_inc/

Broadcast on:: 23 Sep 2024
Audio Format:: other

Mike Morgan, I am so grateful that you are here because it feels like you know so much more about life, you know so much more about the universe. And I'm just so happy that we get to share this message with our entire audience. So thank you first and foremost for being here. But thank you people for having me. I'm honored and humbled to be here. I don't know how much I know, but I will give you everything. I love that. Now, Mike, who are you? Give us a little bit of detail about your background. Absolutely. So my name is Mike Morgan. I was raised in Long Island, New York, North Belmont, specifically. It's a suburb of New York City about 45 minutes outside of New York City. I graduated from Hofstra University with an accounting degree in Long Island May of 1991. And shortly thereafter, started my first position with a firm in Manhattan as an accountant. I remember the first day I was supposed to be so eager to stop this new position. First of the day, the rest of your life, you know, you worked so hard in college to attain this degree and this position. And I remember going on the Long Island Railroad as I'm committing it to the city. No excitement at all. I'm like, man, why am I not pumped up about this? And got to the firm shortly thereafter was introduced to a bunch of associates, bosses. I was given a task about 11am. I found myself waking up with my head in my hand. I looked at the guy who was training me. He was a little bit strange. So I went over to another associate. And I said, what's up, brother? You like this stuff? He's like, F now I hate it. I'm like, there was no way I'm sitting in a cubicle for the next 30, 35 years of my life making no difference to anyone in the world. My closest friends and family, the only people who are going to know whether I lived or died. And I just went deep introspective as to what I wanted to do with my life. And law enforcement came out as my purpose. Yeah, I feel like this trajectory of people waking up on morning and just going, what is it that I'm doing with my life? It's kind of a thing that almost everyone experiences. But that anxiety, people just never have the ability to take action and just go, Hey, I might be needed somewhere else. I might be doing something else. So first and foremost, I just want to recognize that it takes so much effort, guts. And I mean, knowing yourself as a person to just go, Hey, I studied my entire life, I might have made a mistake. Here is what I'm going to do instead. Tell me about this career in law enforcement, because it was such an incredible one. Absolutely. So when I really went deep introspective, I decided law enforcement was my pursuit. At the time I wanted to apply to the FBI, I had an academy degree, and that's one of the degrees law degree and an academy degree, or like the two big things that the FBI wants. Unfortunately, they were on our federal hiring freeze back in 91. They called war it ended, the wall had come down. So they were downsizing a lot of the federal government, military, et cetera. So I kind of had to repive it. As luck may have it, I had met a brother with a good friend of mine. He had been working for Pan Amai Alliance. They had gone bankrupt. Delta came in, bought there or took their whole, he was a welder. So they took the whole welding shop, moved it down to Atlanta, Delta said quarters. And he was just telling me about Atlanta. He loved it. It was a young upcoming city. They were building up for the Olympics in '96. He just bought a three measure, two bath house, half acre property, built a pool for like $100,000. I was blown away. So you know, I wanted you out of New York, number one, number two, I'm going to apply to Atlanta police department. I'm going to get some police experience. And then when the FBI starts hiring again, I'll apply to those guys, which is what I did. So I applied November 92. And I was, I started my career in August of '93 with the Atlanta police department. Yeah. Now, what was the view on the police department at the time? Because one of the big things that we know is in public, this image of policing kind of pivots from one spectrum to the other, where on one side we respect police officers and we think the world of them. And based on some world events that are a lot of the time out of control of people, we just tend to shift into this negative thing based on things that we see on the news based on certain stories that we hear. Yeah, it's true. It kind of our popularity ebbs and flows. And going back to that time, the Rodney King incident had occurred in 1991. I'm not sure if it's familiar with it. Yep, of course. Okay. So I think that the police officers were put on trial in '92. And obviously, you know, again, police popularity was was up and down at that point. Obviously the LA riots occurred after their initial trial, where they were found not guilty. And I would say it really had too much of effect on my life. The one effect that it did have is I remember watching the arrest go down. And I remember thinking to myself, now, you know, people may disagree, but this was my take on it. I was watching the officers try to arrest Rodney King. And I just thought that they were fearful. And that's why no one had it actually moved in and they kept striking him over and over. And I know that I in my mind, because I've been training with the guy who's teaching me how to fight and became pretty proficient at fighting. And one of the things that I had consciously in my mind was those guys are acting out of fear. I will never make a fear-based decision. And I can honestly say I never did it in my 30 years of policing. And that is super important to any young men and women who are entering the career or in the career now is fear will get you in trouble, not to say that no, I didn't have it. But it needs to be something you can easily overcome. Do your job and not do things out of fear, because that will get you hurt, that will get you killed, that will get other people hurt around you. So by the time I got on in '93, the those feelings had kind of gone away a little bit. And I guess policing was seen in a little more of a positive light. Yeah. I'm happy that you got in at the right time. Tell me about some of these accomplishments during the 30-year career, because it feels like we can't fully talk about the extent of all of the things that you've experienced and all the things that you must have seen. But we can at least highlight the career, because it was such a plentiful one, and it brought you to the man that you are today. Yeah, my career was great. It had highs and highs and some lows of lows. You've seen the most intimate, devastating things of people's lives, and unfortunately that'll break your heart sometimes. My first night out at a police academy, we started 11 p.m. I was working in a midnight tour, so we work 11 p.m. to 7 a.m. I'm with a field training officer, and it's his job to get me exposed to as much as possible. So again, we started 11 p.m. by 12 a.m. I had been to my first homicide scene. It was a couple of seconds over, but again, he wanted to expose me as much as possible. It was a crazy story, so we get over to the scene and kind of look in this car as a deceased man and drive his driver's seat, brain matter, all over the place. And what happened was this guy was an Atlanta fire captain, fire department captain who was suspended because we were facing allegations of sexual allegations with him and younger girls. So I guess that we confirmed after this night, but he went to pick up a prostitute. She was 16 years old. Once he picked her up, he decided he wanted to smoke crack, so he goes up to the local dope boy in the corner. We call drug deals, dope boys. And the dope boy looks into the car and who does he see, but a 16 year old cousin takes out a gun, puts one bullet in the guy's head. That was literally first hour, no joke. Four hours later, my FTO decides he wanted to take a nap. We work five and two. So that's five eight hours tours. So we have five on two off. And then we were not compensated well. So we used to have to work extra jobs off duty. So typically, most guys work in minimum, 60 hour weeks, some guys, 80 guys, especially. Yeah, I would say was nuts. And that guys would be exhausted. So we pulled to what was Atlanta, phone candy stadium, park allowed to Atlanta Braves played at the time. He reclines his chair goes asleep. Now, I'm in a we're in the most violent city in America at the time. Excuse me. We're in zone three, which is the most violent city part of that city. And this guy's sleeping. I have my head in a swivel. I'm like, I can't believe this guy's out. And with that, this factor raises us and gives us a 50 and four, which is a shooting and imminent route. I looked to my left and before I could say his name, inclines a seat, puts car and drives, hits the gas, grabs the radio and copies the call. I'm like, holy crap, this guy's Superman. So we hit the we go over to the call and we get there. And there's a male lying in the street on his back. He was obviously deceased. His eyes were wide open, just looking straight up. And I always had this thought when I went up to a homicide scene, and I can't tell you how that I've been to that I would look at the body of the person and be like, man, this guy was living his life like three or four minutes ago. It just always struck me. It was so powerful. So first night, two homicides within five hours, and it just got crazier from there. Yeah. I mean, that's crazy because you have this personal experience that is so, so powerful, and most people when you hear about police officers, that they think about getting pulled over, getting a ticket that they don't want, and having some type of a feeling and conversation on social media about how they think about police. What I respect the most about the job is just knowing how incredibly taxing it is, both on a human level of men, some of the things that you must have seen are so, so dark that like people don't even understand the concept of how bad it is. What was it like showing up into these places being called in the worst situations, knowing that you're part of somebody's worst day of their life? Yeah, it was, you know, you would get there, I'll give you an example. So I'm about a year into my career, maybe a year and a half, and I get a call of a 11 year old, not responsive. It's an 80 case, we call it, excuse me, and I get there. I arrive at the house and I walk in the living room. There's a 11 year old on his back, unresponsive, his mother's and his grandmother there, all in hysterics. So I feel him, he's cold to the touch, I know he's dead, there's nothing I could do at this point, but there's no way I'm not going to try to work in front of these women, so I just start CPR. During the course of the CPR, I could hit a liquid in his chest, and the liquid is coming up, up approaching his mouth, finally put him on his roll him on his side and liquid just pours out of his mouth, and at the time I don't have too much medical training, but I'm like, that should not be there, and I had no idea what was going on, paramedics have fired up on the roll and dressed down, I looked at them, I was like, what the? And it turns out he just started bacterial meningitis. So the two of the women went in the ambulance with the child, and then out of transport the third, and she's obviously in hysterics, you know, you want to be anywhere else in the world, other way you are at that point, and she's asking the officer officer, please tell me they're going to be able to save him, I know he's dead, there's no way he's getting brought back, but I'm like, man, I promise you they're working him as hard as they can, you know, you have to offer something like a hope, but you don't want to ever promise something that you know is not going to happen, you do not tell that woman, he's going to be okay. I tell guys and girls, that young guys don't ever promise things that you know are not going to be true. So we got the hospital, you know, that's when I found out bacterial meningitis was the cause of his death, they gave me a massive dose of antibiotics to make sure that I didn't catch it, and I was basically told to quarantine for 48 hours, had that not been the case, after dropping that woman off the hospital, I would have gone right back in service after experiencing that call and that death and everything that went with it, and you know, whatever call I was going to receive next would have been like, all right, you're back in the game, bro, you know, don't even think about what just happened to you. For a person who is out of the service and doesn't have the idea of what it's like living that life, even hearing that story is, I mean, it's heartbreaking, it's so, so tough. What were some of the big resources that you had to have positive conversations and deal with some of this trauma that you were seeing every single day? That's a good question, New York. Other than speaking to my, you know, fellow brothers and sisters, there really wasn't much at the time, there was no peer counseling, you know, again, this stigma of feeling and showing emotion was thought as such weakness at the time, that really you're not going to look to ask for help. Things are much different these days than they were back then, but other than speaking to the guys that you work with, there really were many resources to be totally honest with you. Yeah, and how do you feel knowing that today, that, you know, experiencing a lot of this trauma changed the trajectory of your life. I'm sure for bad for a really, really long time, but today having dealt with the trauma for good in the long term. How do I feel about it? Yeah, I am thankful for everything that I've been put through, to be honest with you. You know, we're going to get into an in-depth discussion about my whole journey, but I am now out on the other side, and I feel, you know, healing is an ever-evolving process, but I mostly heal from my PTSD and trauma issues, and now I can go forth and help others, and it's fantastic that the stigma is getting lifted. You know, I consider it my job to lift it more. Be honest with you, that's one of the reasons I appear in a tank top because I want, you know, and I've been told by people in the know, like show yourself, you know, show that you're this alpha male, and you can feel, or you do feel, and it's a source of strength, and these men and women are going to listen to you. And I'd spoken to you before the, before we started to be very powerful happening yesterday. I had done podcasts a couple of weeks before, and it was actually a lighter podcast. It was called Things Policing. It was just basically kind of recounting some of the crazy stuff I've seen in my career, and I mentioned my plant-based medicine healing to the podcaster, and he was interested in it, so we kind of delved into it. And someone who had viewed that podcast, got in touch with the buddy of his. He was a retired officer, and one of the Dakotas, with severe PTSD, and he said, "You need to get in touch with this guy." So he had DM me. I ended up calling him yesterday. We were in the phone for quite a while, and he was going through some very difficult times right now, but at the end of the conversation, and it was amazing. When he DM me, he told me exactly what was happening, and I actually laughed. Not that it was funny, but I told him, "Your story is my story." Everything you wrote, starting with the fact that your father, he used to think his middle name was asshole when he was growing up, I'm like, "It's like I wrote that bio, brother." And at the end, he got visibly, he was crying, he was weeping, and he's like, "I feel like there's hope for me now." And I said, "I promise you this hope. All you have to do is raise your hand and ask for help and there is help out there." And I said, "Brother, I went through exactly what you went through." And I'm telling you now, I came out on the other side, and I am happy now in life, and you can do the same exact thing. So we're going to be getting him into treatment, but he's like, it was overwhelming how happy he was that he sees hope now, the first time in a long time. And I am so happy that there are a lot more resources like yourself for people on the force today because, man, there is just so much trauma and we're just starting to break into having some of these conversations. Now, as strong men, I feel like most of our life, we are taught to keep things to yourself, to not share, to keep moving and not accept that something is wrong. At what point in your career did you know that, "Hey, something is messing with me to the point where I can no longer fully do my job without having something in my mind that's either putting doubt in there or driving some type of trauma that is unresolved?" My career was maybe a little bit different than others. I got through my career unscathed in that respect. Which is crazy. Yeah, it's crazy that you were on the force for that long and you were just okay without dealing with some of these issues that were just bubbling out for years. Yeah, you know what it was, I grew up with a very stern father and I was taught at an early age of showing emotion and was weakness and he was very stern, very critical. So I kind of learned at an early age to callous up because I was a sensitive kid. And it was the flocking but it was verbal abuse. And I remember one day I was 12 to 13. I still remember exactly. I remember the red light we were at in the car and he was going off on me and I was like, "I don't understand why he doesn't like me. I don't even say love. Why he doesn't like me. I'm like my teachers love me, my friends' parents love me, my coaches love me. I'm like, "Why does this kind of love me?" And I made a conscious decision. I'm like, "I'm not listening to the word he's going to say." And everything went in one ear and half the other. But you know, I learned to callous up at that point and it just, once you go into this warrior profession, I guess it got even more intense. I was able to compartmentalize, even though I hate that word because it sounds like this fancy psychological term. Where we put these things in a box and we lock them up and we neatly storm away and you're never going to see it again, we bury. That's what we do. We have to as a coping mechanism because number one, we can't handle everyone else's pain. You just can't absorb it. And number two, you have to stay hyper focused on your mission. You know, like it sounds cold, but if I walk into a scene and I have to put a defibrillate on someone who performs CPR, I don't even think of them as a human being because now you start thinking about this being a mother or a father or a son and everything that comes along with that. And now you lose focus on your mission. You are hyper focused and you think about nothing but that mission. You don't look at them as human beings. I hate to say it, but that's the way you have to do it. Yeah, it just feels like you take out the human aspect out of it because it's easier to do the job the right way that it needs to be done. And I feel like it's just a really, really common thing specifically for strong men to be in a position where the field that they specifically choose to go into is the one where you do that, you hyper focus on a mission, you take the emotion out of it, you don't deal with anything that is going on in the world except for the one thing that you're zoned in. Now, after your career, at what point did you go, hey, something is wrong and there's something more here that I need to uncover and I need to deal with? Right. So what happened was I got hurt on duty, September 22nd of 2020. Myself and a rookie were helping a woman up the stairs who couldn't walk up the stairs. She was literally about 500 pounds and I'm picking up her right leg and placing them on every step as we ascend the stairs. So we crest the stair and I see her right foots that's sliding back and I'm like, whoa, there's no way I'm going out like this. So I just crouched down, kind of blasted her up the stairs and when I did a herniated four discs. So yeah, that was not a great day. So I had to get medical treatment. We tried conservative means for about six months. I had to get my first back surgery in April of 2021. I did my physical therapy, got back to work in October, about six months later, but there was still additional problems going on, which myself, my neurosurgeon knew about. He told me that we were going to try to put off a spinal fusion. I really didn't want one, but I could see I couldn't sit at a desk. I was just too painful. So I had to go out again, receive a spinal fusion six months later of April 22. Six months passed that they retired me medically in October of 22 because I was 54 over the spinal fusion. They told me they were not putting me on the street again. And during the course of those two years, I was not allowed to work. I couldn't volunteer. I couldn't go to gym. I had no purpose in a purpose driven individual. So I remember I asked the guide dog foundation of America was about two miles from my house. I asked like a volunteer there, you know, sitting at desk, answering phones, whatever was told no, literally could do nothing. There's a unit that actually follows you, follows people who are out long term, disability, I call it. So if they see you getting into the car and they videotape you and you look too smooth, they'll say, say, this guy's not injured. Meanwhile, I had confirmed them are always two surgeries, but they do what they do. So once they got retired and I was at peace with it at that time in October 2022, I had to go another year to settle my workers' comp case. Again, no working, no volunteering, no doing anything. And it was at that point that I started not feeling myself. I started getting maybe a little depression, a little bit of anger. I couldn't really pinpoint it, you know, I'm very self aware. I knew I wasn't myself, you know, I would say a crossword to my wife when I didn't mean to, and you know, I'm like, what are you doing? You know, I just, in some respects, couldn't help myself. Excuse me. I was not happy with the man. I was at that point, but I really couldn't pinpoint what was going on. So as time went on, I'm kind of realizing that, hey, you know what, man? You, this thing for 30 years, you're no longer a part of it. You are no longer this thing. You no longer have the camaraderie in brotherhood. You're not seeing the guys girls on a daily basis, out of sight, out of mind. So these things kind of started ending up, and I had heard about other people going through them, but I didn't think it was going to be me. And I guess about six months later, I was watching a Sean Ryan podcast. I'm not sure if you know Sean, but he's a former Navy SEAL CIA contract. He got a very popular YouTube podcast, and he's interviewing another Navy SEAL named Eddie Penny. He was a retired SEAL, team six guy, and he's recounting the story of the extortion 17 incident, and that's an incident in which a truck went down. And in addition to the flight personnel, 17 SEALs were killed, one of which being Eddie's best friend. And Eddie is just recounting the story of escorting his best friend's body back to his hometown. Eddie is visibly upset, you know, crying rightly so. And it's funny, I was thinking about it the other day, I think I finally came to the conclusion of why this had happened. As I'm watching Eddie, I thought about a call I had a few years earlier, a two-year-old found floating in a pool, and I lost it. Started crying like a baby. Wow. And I remember my first reaction still blows me away to this day, was I looked and saw my house to make sure my wife did not come back for food shopping because I was embarrassed to be crying. My wife is the best. She's a life coach. She's on this higher consciousness for level for years and years. She's the type of woman who'd be like, let it out, crying more. You know, she'd never scorn you for doing something like that. But that was my first reaction. And I realized now that something about Eddie, let me know that it was okay to cry. You know, I don't know if that alpha male thing, tier one warrior, one of the best in the world, if he's doing it, then I am allowed to do it. But it was at that point that I realized I think you had PTSD. And all these other calls that I buried started coming up to the surface. And I was like, wow, it was such a powerful moment. I realized that I needed help at that point. And I didn't think traditional therapies or counseling were going to do it. I don't think I was going to go and speak to some man or woman behind a desk, tell them the things I've done, things I've seen, things I've experienced and they were going to be able to help me. And in listening to the warrior's talk, they were talking about plant-based medicines. And at first, I was a little pessimistic. I don't think it applied to me. But then I'm like, oh my, this is some of the strongest mentally fortitude men in the world coming back broken from war. And they're healing. You know, I can do the same. And I made the conscious decision at that point that I had to do this. Yeah. And as a man, I'm just so, so proud of you for going, hey, I know that there is a group of people just like me who are strong-minded, who are leaders who are warriors. And just like me, they need help at certain points in their life based on some of the dark things that they've seen, because it feels like you have seen some of the darkest things that humanity has to offer. And you just had to sit in it. You had to get over it. Talk to me about, just for a second, about this emotion of one day being on the police force for 30 years being one of the most trusted people, right? And then the other day being questioned about whether your disability is real, whether you are having issues. Because that to me doesn't make sense in my mind where, hey, if we trust Mike to go out there and deal with some of the darkness that he is dealing with on daily basis based on his job, how is it that we don't trust him when he says his back is hurt? He has to get back fusions and he's dealing with complex medical issues. Yeah, it's a very strange dynamic, to be honest with you. You gave all to this job. You tried to be honorable as you did your job and then your questioned at every turn you know, it's almost like you're on top of the hill one day and they're trying to bury you the next. I remember distinctly after retiring, there were several things, one had nothing to do to department just New York State law. But once I retired, I was no longer allowed to carry extended magazines in weapons that I had, except for the gun that I retired with. So, although I was caught for 30 years and I'm the guy that you want carrying a weapon around, every gun that I had had to have a 10 round magazine, except for the Glock that I retired with. So, right off the bat, you're like, "Man, they really don't care about you too much." Additionally, as I'm filling out all my exit paperwork, I remember I had to go get my work calendar kind of signed off by... I got transferred to the medical evaluation command and if you're out of work for a certain amount of time, they take you out of your preaching command, just the manpower saying on paper and they put you into medical evaluation bureau. So, I had to go there and I had to sign off on my calendar for the year. So, as I'm getting that done, one of the workers there kind of comments like, "I hope you get your good guy letter and your good guy letter entitles you to be able to carry a pistol permit, but it's a carry to seal permit. So, essentially, the way I could carry on duty, my whole job, I could continue to do so." And she's like, "I hope you get your good guy letter. I'm like, yeah, me too." And I laugh, but she doesn't. I'm like, "You know something? I don't know." She's like, "Well, they've started to do this thing where guys who retire with disability retirements and I came in a letter to him." I'm like, "Why is that?" And she's like, "We don't really know." I'm like, "The union hasn't dealt it to this." She's like, "No." I say, "Well, there's nothing in my paperwork that says I cannot carry a weapon or I can't qualify. So, I don't foresee a problem." So, with that being said, I got a call about two weeks later from pistol permits stating that my good guy letter was declined. I was like, "What?" It blew me away. I mean, you just felt so disposable at that point. I was just, "You hurt and you're so angry." And I wasn't taking a line down. So, I contacted the NRA, spoke to a couple of their gun attorneys and told them what was going on. They said, "Yeah, basically, to start a case, it'll be 10,000 and it's a 50/50 shot if you're gonna get your good guy letter because the judge is gonna make the determination on it. And he may say, "Yes, he may say no." So, with that, I go to a Facebook group on my police department and I told everyone what was happening and it just so happened that a retired cop who was now a legislator saw what I had written, called me up and discussed that I told him what was going on. He got in touch with the police chief, who supposedly did not know what was going on because he was a commissioner who took it upon herself to start doing this. And I received my letter within a week. But I was so blown away on the treatment that we were receiving. I was like, basically kicking in the ass, get your door. Bye-bye. And I feel like that treatment we hear from veterans a lot. We hear that from police officers. At a certain point when your service ends, we just put you on the street and we go, "Hey, you go back to your regular life now." And you just go, "Hey, there is so much to unpack here. There is so many things that I've done. How do you feel about like just putting me out on the street?" And to me, that's crazy that we treat people that way and then we just assume that you're going to go on living your life, figure something else out. But tell me about this treatment and tell me exactly where you want to get help. So, you know, again, as I realized that I needed help, I was watching all these men and they were talking about ayahuasca being the specific plant-based medicine that most of them were using. There are several ayahuasca, Ibogaine, Bufo, Silla Saibin, Academy treatments and Abingus, MDMA, hopefully it's going to be approved by the FDA soon. We'll see. Everything is wrapped up in these pharmaceutical companies and they're lobbyists. It's crazy because the MDMA, the big case, just got denied again based on literally just bullshit reasoning that is so out of bounds and so unscientific that we're just deep into the politics of what people consider treatment. And it's stupid that these conversations aren't had more often. Yeah, in fact, I just saw Andrew Hubermann did a YouTube on the fact that he believes that the government is going to approve Silla Saibin as soon as these pharmaceutical companies synthesize it, but won't caveat. They're going to synthesize it without a psychedelic component to it. So instead of needing one or two treatments, people are going to need to use these continually like to do everything else. They want to keep you under hook and they want to keep making that money. As long as there's money in it, there is someone on the other side of it trying to profit from it, trying to make it a long-term treatment, trying to put it into something that's patented. And a lot of people don't understand that in big pharma, there is a specific, I don't know if it's a seven or 10 year patent, which is your ability to make money at your ridiculous pricing for drugs that are coming from nature that have been used for thousands of years. And a lot of people just overlook them because they're not fancy and there's no direct marketing for them. Yeah, absolutely. And I thought it was a 17 year patent, but I could be incorrect. It might be even 17. Yeah, I thought it was that long, but you know, essentially, listen, we know these guys are attempting to synthesize all these all these plant-based medicines now. And I predict that's the way it's going to go. Once they synthesize it, then you're going to get approval. But those are going to be the only outlets where you can receive and unless you go elsewhere. It's disgusting fact of life, but unfortunately, these companies run the world. Yeah, it's just dirty and at the end of the day, it's all about running in the power. It's corruption to the integrity, you know, they're contributing to all these packs of these politicians. And it's just amazing to me that these politicians make 175,000 a year old multimillionaires like you guys must literally have the best investment advisors has anyone's ever seen in the history of the world. But no one ever investigates how these guys all became multimillionaires. Yeah, and all of them are better investment advisors and investment guys than Warren Buffett and have reduced returns year over year, which again is like, it's so out of bounds and it's so dirty and people just don't take the time to really understand exactly how politics works, especially in there. I mean, they're in bed with big pharma and there's not enough people talking about it. No, not at all. Not at all. Disgusting. And immediately, you're not going to pick up on it. Unfortunately, you know, they're in bed with them too. It just said, tell me about your own ayahuasca trip because it was so, so powerful and it changed the direction of your life. Absolutely. So at the time, myself and my wife moved from New York to Florida this past December. And once I decided that I was going to use that I wanted to or needed to use plant-based medicines, I did not realize that you were able to access any streams in the US. So we were actually planning a trip to Peru, both her and myself. And during the course of a Florida move, she was doing some research and actually found the center called SoulQuest Ayahuasca Church in Orlando, Florida, that was an Ayahuasca retreat facility. So we planned our retreat this past March, first weekend on March, and we drove up there. It was about two and a half hour drive. We arrived on a Friday. It was going to be a three-sum ceremony weekend, excuse me, Friday night, Saturday day, Saturday night. So we arrived at the facility, got a tour at a facility. About four o'clock we went in, had an orientation. We told what to expect, just broad spectrum, etiquette in the space, what you can't do, what you can't do. It's basically an overview of what you're going to be experiencing. Now, I want to tell everyone, I was nervous. I had no idea what to expect. I had no idea how it was going to go. I was still kind of pessimistic. Didn't think it was going to work for me. I'm also afraid of maybe getting into the steep psychedelic experience. Something's going to snap and I'm not going to come out of it. You have no idea what to expect. It's just the unknown, fear of the unknown. That being said, I was willing to try anything at that point. So once we did the orientation, we went back to the ceremonial space in the back of the property. It's outside. It's a big yard. Outlying in the perimeter, we're outline chairs. It was probably about 35 of us that weekend who was sitting for the medicine. In the center was a fire pit. You have two buildings. I don't know. They're probably about 20 by about 30 deep that kind of quiet spaces. So if during your ceremony, you want to go in there and just have quiet people go back there. So once we sat down, it's very sacred. There are a lot of rituals that are done beforehand. I just think they're beautiful. I think this medicine is extremely sacred. I don't take it lightly. First of all, it's not a drug. We have to get that. First and foremost, because people here at the state of the drug, there is no danger of you getting this euphoria that you want to replicate over and over. You're not going to be addicted to it. It's not something you're going to want to do. It's a very, very powerful experience. And a lot of times it's profound pain going through to get to the other side. So this is not something that people abuse. So essentially, the rituals are done. They have beautiful rituals as well. It's very harmonious, one with nature. It's beautiful to see. So once that's finished, you are given your ayahuasca. And it's essentially a shot glass. And what is ayahuasca is made from two vines that are boiled together. And the crazy thing about it is 80,000 vines in the Amazon. But whether it was a universe, God, whoever spoke to whoever first used ayahuasca, they had to tell him a heart to use these two specific vines, one produces a psychedelic effects and the other one's an MAO inhibitor. And if you don't use both, you won't feel the psychedelic effects. It'll be, it'll just be nothing. So the fact that whoever it was told this first part of thousands of years ago to use these two in combination, tells you all you need to know about the medicine itself. So essentially, you shoot it down. It's not the best tasting thing in a world. I'll be straight with everyone. But who cares? Number one, it is what it is. And once you drink, it's funny because I was like looking around the ceremony area and everyone's kind of chilling waiting for things to happen. And after about 30 minutes, I started getting a little tense. I'm like, nothing's happening. Please tell me this is not a waste of time. And about the 40 minute mark, the ground started moving. And I was like, yeah, we can help, baby. Hey, that moment 30 minutes. And I hear that moment best described as, hey, you don't know it's here, but you hear it knocking. You like, know something is coming. It's on the verge of happening to you. And you are just exactly, as you said, you are so unsure. You're so freaked out. You just go, what ride are we in for? And I feel like that's part of the conversation that people need to know about this is, hey, this fear, this anxiety over the things that you're going to discover about the universe and yourself is normal. If you don't go into this going, hey, everything is going to be great. The anxiety overdoing it, the anxiety over finding yourself is a part of the journey. And it's just the medicine is there when you're ready, and you should know that it exists. And it's not in the hands of the lawmakers and people who are in charge to tell you that it's not real. And this doesn't work. You should at least think about having experience. Absolutely. And like you said, it is natural to be nervous. You have no idea what to expect. I mean, listen, it's the most powerful psychedelic in the world. And you have no idea what's going to take you. Number one, they tell you that the medicine is going to take you. We need to be taken that way. You want to be taken. You have no idea where that's going to be. And I've heard some profound stories. I mean, incredible stories. Just quick one was a sad story, but she healed from it. This girl was smelling a very unique smell and she could not place it when she was journeying. And finally, it became clear to her. She was sexually abused by an uncle. He put chlorophyll over her nose when she was a child and would rape her. And she suppressed those memories so deeply that it only came out about as a ayahuasca journey. And it's just incredible where it takes you. But you know, as far as myself, my journey, the way I like to explain it, it's almost as though I was looking at a big screen TV. And most people say they sense a female presence when they drink ayahuasca and they call a mother or mother ayahuasca. And I was the same kind of in the left hand corner of this big screen TV. Mother was there. And I remember when it first started, first I was seeing geometric patterns. And that's very commonplace amongst people. And it's crazy how everyone, most people experienced that same thing in the beginning, just geometric patterns, you know, kind of superimposed over the sky or whatever else you're looking at. It's just incredible to see. Most people do experience that, did you? I had the exact same experience on a psilocybin where there were geometrical patterns that started appearing. And what's crazy is, as you feel like your mind is playing tricks on you, even when I close my eyes, I remember seeing the same warm geometrical patterns and going, I'm okay. This is normal. This is just something that my mind doesn't currently understand. Yeah, yeah, it's great to like just shoot yourself. Same thing with me and my psilocybin journeys, geometric patterns. And it's just incredible that we all, a lot of people, I should never, can never generalize. But most people experience that, that functions. It's, I don't know why, but, what do you think that is incredible? Someone had offered a good explanation and it's not coming to me right now. I have to Google it, because I can't believe I forgot, but it actually made it a great deal of sense. And I can't forget it right now, I'm embarrassed. But yeah, it's very, very commonplace. Yeah. So, you know, once they kind of went away, mother was clear in my left-hand corner. And I remember, I put my hands up and I said, I surrender, I was crying. And I'm like, I surrender to you. Please tell me what I have to do to get rid of this anger, this rage, this hatred. I'm like, I have this fire up here and I don't need it anymore. And I don't know what to do. Yeah, I need to get rid of this ego. And every time I asked for something, it was like, wait, we're just getting fed off of me. It was one after the other. And, you know, you understand, you've been through this experience, but for someone who hasn't, and they're listening to me talk, you know, they're probably kind of shaking their head like, no, I am a flower child. This is exactly how it happened. And I remember her, I mean, we were having conversations throughout the night and she was telling me, like, you're a warrior, but you don't need this fire and everything that comes along with it here anymore. She's like, your time has passed. She's like, it'll be here, down here, if you need it, that fire is always within you. But everything else is also down here. And, you know, you will always be a warrior, but you're no longer that. And I remember being a peacefuler at that point, like, yeah, I'm done. My time has passed. These other guys can carry on that talk because, you know, I did my best try to be as honorable as I can. But I'm good, I'm done. And just put it to bed. And so many things happen like that. I remember she was bringing my father, he's deceased, he was bringing my father to me in my journey. And again, we had a very contentious relationship. So as she's bringing into me, there's actually music in the ceremony area going on. And the music in my journey is that building and building a louder and louder. And reality was not, and then it just built in this crescendo and stopped. And reality and music was still going on. And now I felt as though I was in front of the biggest, brightest, Las Vegas marquee. And there were a bunch of people behind me watching the showdown between my father and I was about to happen. Nothing physical. It was like a mental showdown, so to speak. And I'm looking like that. It's alleyway for him to appear. I'm just waiting, waiting, waiting. I finally realized it's not going to show that just threw my hand in the air and like, fucking coward. I knew he wouldn't show. He cannot talk about emotion. But the 55 years of things between he and I was just shed. I was just gone. You know, and from that point on any memory that I thought about him that had this energy to it, so to speak, the energy was just gone. It was just drained. Like I put it to peace. You know, I realized he was raised in a very stern environment, a very non-loving home. And that's what he knew. And he tried his best. And you know, that's how he raised me. And yeah, is what it is. I was at peace with it. I am at peace with it. He made me the man I am. You know, with several respects, I didn't like that man at the time. But you know, since his journey, you know, I was talking to a man named DJ Shipley. I don't know if you ever heard of DJ. I'm not. He's a former Navy SEAL Team Six guy himself. And I went to some training this past April with his company in North Florida. And he and I were alone at the end of the day. We started speaking out about our individual place based journeys. And you know, we both kind of echo in the same sentiments. And I said, DJ, I'm proud of the man I am now. I was not before. I'm like, I am happy. I experience life now. I feel and it is so profound to me that I could feel things. I could speak about my emotions. I could cry after this weekend that I'm telling you about. I actually did a Facebook live and I cried on video as I was talking about my career and journey. And I never would have been able to do that prior to and I was actually proud of myself in doing that. And I received three phone calls from buddies the next day who told me that me doing that let them know it was okay to feel emotion and show emotion. It was not weakness. And one of my buddies admitted to having a gun in his mouth and a not too distant past. That won't blow me away. And all three at the end of those conversations said they felt so much different than they had prior to seeing my video the day before. So it was my bargain. I told my wife, I'm like, this is my path. And also coming out of that journey that Friday night. Let me preface this by saying I had two co-workers and friends from my Suffolk County Police Department commit suicide through this before my journey one week apart. Sergeant actually killed himself in a precinct locker room. And I know thoughts about getting into the space that I am now helping people with PTSD. But as I'm coming out of that journey, the universe is clearly, as you and I are talking, that I healed you from your PTSD. It's never a voluntary process. But essentially, I healed you. Your life pursuits and I'll go forward and help other men and women heal from this as well. And I literally said, okay, just accept that it wasn't sure how I was going to implement it. But that was my life passion from that moment. I love the way that you talk about this because first and foremost, this is a super, super powerful experience that people need to know about. But second of all, you talked about the idea of the universe. And that's a common thing between people who have had the journey, who have had the experience is, I see that we tend to talk about the universe. Can you tell me what it is that you mean when you refer to the universe? And what do you think it is? Because we both know that like at the end of the day, what I found is that my perception of reality, at least what I think is real is subjective. And there is something grander in the universe that we don't fully understand. But it feels like we get a glimpse of it through this powerful experience. But we just either don't have the ability to tune into it all the time, or don't fully understand exactly what it is that we're seeing. Yeah, absolutely. Let me start up. I said I was raised Roman Catholic, you know, with the church, all my until basically I hit college. And I got turned off to organize religion with the Catholic scandals of priests abusing children. And I thought it was just so hypocritical. And I've stayed spiritual, had my own relationship with God, but organized religion is not really my thing. And I say universe, it could be God speaking to me. I don't know it feels more of the universe. I can't say I feel a godly presence. I just feel it's like the universe speaking to me. And I had journey with I this past May, and I had the most intense night of my life, this one particular night. And there was no anger. There was no rage. It was pure intensity. And I remember I was staring at I was sitting in a chair staring at this fire. And I had multiple people come up to me the next day saying, I've never seen anyone with such intensity on their face in my life. And one guy was like, dude, I don't mean this oddly, but he's like, I could not take my eyes off here. And it was funny because I never take my shirt off. I had a sweatshirt and a shirt on underneath. And I know I'm staring at this fire and I kind of pull back and I look and I see my tats. I'm like, whoa, we're my clothes. And my sweatshirt and a shirt or like on the ground. My wife later said that she saw me take it off. And she's like, whoa, it's gonna be one of those nights. Well, shortly thereafter, I took it off. And I was like, three inches from a space heater actually should have been getting burned. But I felt like the fire is fueling my soul. And I have my arms wide open. I was looking up to the sky. This was going on for hours. And I was having a conversation with the universe. And, you know, again, people are gonna listen to this and be like some people and be like, okay, bro, the universe was literally talking to me telling me it put me through every single thing that I put me through life to get me to this point. Because I can walk into any room with any man or woman going through this and I love instant credibility. They're like, you are a warrior. And one of the themes that's been common, it's been five out of my seven times I journey with Aya is Native Americans. I'm with Native Americans and they dressing me up and we're going into battle. And I have enough, I have no, you know, no blood on the Native American blood. I have, you know, nothing that would preclude, you know, would make me think that I have any association with Native Americans. But this particular night, my wife told me I'm like putting on war paint. And I remember the next day. And, you know, universities just give me, she's like, you're a warrior no matter when you would have lived in your life. Your mindset is that and your job is to go forth and help these men and women. And they will listen to you because you will be genuine. You will be vulnerable. You will tell them everything, every misstep you've ever made. And they will realize you're a real deal. And they can tell you anything. And, you know, just that message was kind of reiterated over and over that I put you here for a reason. Essentially, I told him, like, I said, I'm a vessel, I would do whatever you want me to do. And he, he, the universe, whatever, was just that is your mission. And it was so powerful. Yeah. It's so interesting to hear you talk about it because I'm not really just at all. But I found the same thing where in the middle of experience, I just want, Hey, I don't know what it is that is out there. But there is something bigger in this universe that based on the typical wavelength that we operate in, I just currently don't possess the ability to tune into or to understand. And I have no idea what the hell this is. I just know that there is some power behind it. Now, parts of the experience always feel a little bit slippery. Have you found the same thing where you remember the emotion that came out of exactly what was going on, but you don't exactly remember what it was that you saw that you have some of the same weird experiences? Yeah. I mean, I think you'll have like an overall feeling of what you felt. And it's almost like a puzzle. You know, you'll get a piece here and a piece here. But, you know, chronological, I don't think, you know, you could fill in every moment of that journey. You know, it happened and it's powerful. But I guess it's like anything else you kind of, you know, forget, you'll have a more intense part, you get to remember that fully. And this one was a little bit less, maybe, you know, bits of pieces, you'll remember it. But yeah, I agree with you 100%. It's not like you remember everything that happened. And to people who haven't experienced this, it's not like you go into this deep hallucination and you're there for hours. You kind of come in and out. So, you know, you'll be in one scenario, kind of come out of it again. I mean, you could get up and use the facilities, sit down, and you'll be back deep into that journey in 30 seconds. So, it's, it's not something where you're kind of in this dimension for four or five hours straight. Yeah. Now, one of the big things that changed for me coming out of the experience is my idea of what time is. Like, for a long time, I thought that time was chronological. And this strange thing that we have zero control over. And based on some of the thoughts and some of the feelings that I had inside the experience, it kind of gave me just like you with your father, give me this weird thing where I just want, I don't know what the energy storing systems are, but it feels like there is some crossover where there's the ability for medicine to take us through different points of time and make it feel so real that I started questioning about the energy of the universe surrounding time. Have you had some of those thoughts and some of those ideas about, you know, time maybe not being as chronological as we think of it and some weird different idea of what energy is and how energy is stored? Yeah, definitely. As far as energy, I, my wife has been into this higher consciousness for years and years. And it was just something, a space able to really occupy and never made fun of it and anything like that. But, you know, we are energy and everything is an energy transference. So, you know, it's almost like if you have an action, you have an equal reaction. Any time something happens, energy is transferred from here to there. And, you know, I really started thinking about more and more about what happens at the death. You know, I don't know essentially if there's a habit that we go to. I don't, I think our energy just goes elsewhere. And I'm not really, you know, I'm kind of getting into this deeper thought about it. Like, what exactly does that mean? Are we reincarnated as someone else? As, you know, like, whether it's first human being, animals. I don't know, I have a hard time believing that once we, our human bodies die, that there is nothing else or we don't go anywhere. So in terms of energy, yeah, I think, I don't think it ever dies. It just goes, it goes elsewhere. I don't know where that, where that is. I guess not as anyone else. But the same thing with time, time is a man made concept. I mean, if we wanted to turn around tomorrow, make a day 48 hours, we could do that. You know, it's, it's, we're the ones that constructed their concept of time, so to speak. So, yeah, I think there's a lot more things that go on in this world that we don't give any things to, but to really start thinking about it. And then once you do, you're like, there was a lot more that we do not know about in this world. Agreed. And it feels like, you know, most people are just so caught up in what it is that they're doing every day to even start thinking about it. Tell me about some of the changes that you saw in yourself on the human level coming out of the experiences and knowing that the universe isn't exactly what you thought it was prior to the experience. Yeah, I mean, there was nothing about my, my body and soul didn't change after that experience. I, first of all, during that experience, I remember watching the volunteers and they were so there to help us. And I'm watching them work. And I'm like, man, these people so grace was so loving, so empathetic. And I remember asking mother to become more like them. I'm like, this is strength. And once I came out of the experience, I felt so much more of an empathetic being. And it's funny because I tell my wife the story. She's like, you sound like you were a monster. I'm like, no, baby. Yeah, I never felt like I was a monster. I just wanted to be more empathetic. I just wanted to be a better man. And everything about me changed. I mean, the way I think about life now, you know, for instance, I was having a conversation with a mentor of mine. And I was having some family problems just kind of recounting them to them to him. And he's like, listen, you have to look at it from perspective is everything in life. And this is huge. He's like, you cannot be a warrior and a victim. Your mind is never going to reconcile that fact. And you're a warrior. And you don't have to be in these violent professors to be a warrior. You can just be an accountant, but be a warrior the way you handle life. And I thank the universe every single thing that it put me through continues to put me through. You cannot look at it from a victim's mentality, not to always me, not only I only have bad luck, this stuff only happens to me. Now, if you do look at life like that, that's the way life's going to be led. Thank you to rest every single thing you put you through and power yourself. Because once you go through whatever it is, and it could be devastating, you're going to come out the other side after healing from that pain. And you must feel that pain. You can't dull it with substances. You can't push it aside. You have to deal with it. Once you do, you're going to hear yourself. You're going to become more resilient. You're going to be a healthy individual. An individual doesn't need to depend on people for their happiness because you're going to be happy. You're going to go through life looking for healthy relationships. And when you find those that are not, you're going to shed them. It's such a different way of empowering yourself in life. And this is my biggest message that I take to everyone and I speak to. Mindset is everything, perspectives, everything, gratefulness is everything. I tell men and women, if you're severely depressed, inspired actions, inspired thoughts create actions. Now, if you're so depressed and you don't have those, when you wake up, everything is going to be an incremental, small steps. If you're taking university, you woke up that morning or God, wherever your high power is, you woke up that morning. You're feeling good. You have food to put in your stomach today because many people don't. The weather is good. You have a job to go to small, small, small steps and you're building blocks and you're changing your perspective. Sometimes you'll get a negative thought in your head prior to doing so. You think of positive things in your life or replace that negative or positive and just keep doing it. It sounds like it's not going to do anything, but really, you truly start doing that. It makes such an impact in your life. It cannot be understated. It feels like the power of your mind is one of the big things that people just can't really comprehend and don't have the ability to grasp and something about this experience because I had the exact same experience coming out of it. I just went, "Hey, I almost talk about it as this is something that gave me the ability to care at a level that I didn't know I could care at before. It just put it into my thought that there is more to life than the way that I've been living it before and that I'm capable of more." What's crazy to me is that more people are not seeking the experience out just because they keep hearing from lawmakers and people who have never had the experience say that they shouldn't be allowed to do this. The final question that I'm going to hit you with is going to be a really, really important one because I feel like everyone has a different attitude towards this. Who do you think is the best fit for people to go on this journey and do you think that everyone should be having this experience? Yes. Now, the only people that I would caution against doing so are schizophrenics and people of bipolar because you really can't consume this medicine with those conditions, unfortunately. But I was telling our friend Liz Buckley on his podcast, "I think everyone in the world, when they reach a certain age, should consume my Alaska." We all experience trauma in our lives. You don't have to be in these worried professions. It can be generational childhood trauma. Anything. I mean, life hits hard. I love that Rocky Balboa monologue when he's talking to his son. He's talking about nothing hits hard in life. I don't care how rich you are, how strong you are, how good-looking you are. It doesn't matter. Life is going to knock you down and ayahuasca gives you the ability to heal yourself. It gives you the ability to have different perspective on life itself. I truly believe if everyone drank ayahuasca, it would be the worst. Men's ego and the downfall of man is going to be men's, the male ego. The ego suffers a death. You just realize that there are so many more things that are worthy in this life than your precious ego. It humbles you. You realize the importance of love and caring and showing compassion towards others. I truly believe if we all drank it, wars would disappear, and governments would not want that. Love is the answer to every single thing that we do. Absolutely. Mike, I am so proud, and I'm so happy that you are a man that you are today, and you are on this mission to make the world better by providing education, by sharing your experience because, brother, it's such a powerful one. I'm so happy that there are more people like you sharing their stories. At the end of the day, you are making a difference, and I just appreciate you taking the time to share the message with me and our audience. Absolutely, but thank you so much. That means a ton. It really means everything. It's such a powerful thing, and I love it. I appreciate the honesty, the ability to share, because it's such a complex conversation that a lot more people need to hear, and you are the right person to be sharing it. Thank you very much. It's my life's pursuit. Anyone that you need to have someone going through, and they need to speak to someone, you think I'm the person, please stand in my light. You heard that, guys, reach out to Mike Morgan. He is your guy. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next time. Absolutely, thank you, and if I could just plug my Instagram, because that's what I work on pretty much. It's teamwork, so it's T-E-A-M underscore M-O-R-G-S underscore I-N-C. I watch everything. If you want to DM me, feel free. If you guys are going through it, I promise you, you raise your hand, and we will get you help. Thank you again, Mike, for sharing your time with us. - Thank you, Igor. You