Pat Leonard of the New York Daily News and the Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard podcast joins two-time NFL All-Pro Eric Metcalf and Spencer German on The Dawg Check @Bleav to preview the Giants' pivotal visit to the Cleveland Browns in Week 3. The trio discusses Brian Daboll's job security, the stakes the Giants face in Week 3, the X's and O's matchup, Kevin Stefanski's potential advantage, the importance of the running game for both offenses, Deshaun Watson's reputation as a player and more.
Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard
Pat Leonard previews Giants-Browns on The Dawg Check
If you're a facilities manager at a warehouse, and your HVAC system goes down, it can turn up the heat, literally. But don't sweat it, Granger has you covered. Granger offers over a million industrial grade products for all your operations, including warehouse HVAC maintenance. And even better, they offer access to experts and fast delivery, so you and your warehouse can both keep your cool. Call 1-800-GRAINJER, click ranger.com, or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done. Shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business. Shopify is there to help you grow. Shopify helps you sell everywhere, from their all-in-one e-commerce platform to their in-person POS system. Shopify's got you covered. Shopify helps you turn browsers into buyers with the Internet's best converting checkout. 36% better on average compared to other leading commerce platforms, and sell more with less effort thanks to Shopify Magic, your AI-powered all-star. What I love about Shopify is how no matter how big you want to grow, Shopify gives you everything you need to take control and take your business to the next level. Shopify powers 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S. And Shopify's the global force behind all birds, Rothy's and Brooklynan, and millions of other entrepreneurs of every size across 175 countries. Plus, Shopify's award-winning help is there to support your success every step of the way. Because businesses that grow, grow with Shopify. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com/WestwindOne. All lowercase, go to Shopify.com/WestwindOne now to grow your business. No matter what stage you're in, Shopify.com/WestwindOne. Welcome on in Brown stands to another episode of the Dog Check Podcasts, airing weekly on Bally's Sports Cleveland, and of course, part of the Believe Network of Podcasts excited to be joined not only by the Brown's legend that is Eric Metcalfe, but also Pat Leonard, who is a giant speed reporter for the New York Daily News and host of Talking Ball here on the Believe Network. Pat, we appreciate you jumping in with us this week to get us ready for this big match of a week three and dissecting from all bunch of different angles, man. Thank you so much. You got it, Spencer. Great to be with you. Great to be with Eric. And I love the Dog Check name. It just, it gets me in the mood to talk proud. I don't know what it is. I just like it. You know, it's funny because we have so many of the hosts on around the network. And they're all, you know, they're all kind of branded with like the believe in whatever the team might be. And then I was, I always stands out to me like, man, ours is so different in that way. So I agree with you. It's a unique name. I like it for sure. Yeah, put you in the mood to talk football. Just checking in. Dogs checking in. I like that. I like that, Eric. We're onto something there. We might, hey, that's a good idea for a segment in the future, like Brown's. Maybe I can use that for my mailbag. Dogs checking in. The dog check in. The dog check in of the week, right? Look at that. Eric, look at you, my man. You're on a roll today. I want to start. We know that obviously the Giants are off to a rough start to the season. And they have a number of different issues that we can kind of get into. But I actually want to highlight first, like, what are the things that Brown's fans should be aware of that this team does well? Because, you know, face value, everyone's going in like, oh, that's the Giants. We should beat them. Daniel Jones stangs, the spreads six and a half, whatever it might be. But I know there's also things that the Giants do well that could become problematic to the Bronx. So what are some of those things that you're looking at for this matchup? Well, the Giants are built to win with their pass rush. If they get a lead in the game and they can unleash Brian Burns, Dexter Lawrence and K. Von Thibodeau. So Brian Burns, they traded for the chair of the second round pick for him in a fifth next year. They made him the third highest paid pass rusher in football coming from Carolina. Dexter Lawrence, they made one of the higher paid defensive tackles in the game. He's also really widely considered by a lot of people now that Aaron Donald is gone. One of, if not the best, nose tackles in football, rushes the pastor and plays the run. And then K. Von Thibodeau, number five overall pick a couple years ago by GM Joe Shane. So that's where their pedigree is. So if they can get in a position where Cleveland is not running the ball well, controlling the clock well, and the Giants take a lead and Cleveland's in obvious passing situations in the second half, that would be problematic potentially for Deshawn Watson, Kevin Stofanski and company, because that really is the Giants recipe for success, is either try to keep games close or get a marginal lead going late and then unleash their pass rush. Yeah, that I mean, they gave up what's seven field goals or what have you, but I'm just not, I'm not going to be funny is with that in mind, they have to feel good that they're not letting the touchdown in, I mean, a team in the end zone, right? And so yeah, as a defense. So like you said, when you're leaning on a defense like this, they're doing their job. I mean, seven still a lot, but they're doing their job without by not letting a team get in the end zone. So when you talk to these guys, how do they feel about that? Yeah, no, that's a fair point. I was laughing because, you know, I part of that point, obviously, I mean, let's be honest, a game that has that many field goals is always a little bit funny. I mean, we're all like, this is on the score, like the Steelers one week one doing that too. It's like the week because like you said, like, it really is bad with New York for like, for example, that was seven possessions, seven scores for Washington on the Giants defense. So, you know, the point being, even though they have good pass rush, they're not really getting it done. But to your point, Eric, when it got into the red zone, it was Ben, but don't break. They did benefit though, like the context of that would be Washington's offensive line fall started. I'm not kidding. Five times in the red zone in this game. And that was three two on one drive and three on separate drives. So four different drives, Cliff Kingsbury's offense gets inside basically the 10 or 15 yard line and fall starts. But to your point, Eric, what happens there is they're running the ball. Well, their team fall starts. Now it's first and 15. And now the Giants can rush the passer because Cliff Kingsbury feels like, okay, now I got to throw the ball. It's not an obvious run situation at first and goal from the five. So that's a really kind of like a good example of don't put yourself in bed down and distant situation against the Giants. That's how they can beat you. Yeah, those procedural things have been an issue for the Bronzi's first couple of weeks. So I believe last I checked lead the league in penalties to this point. So that's something for the for the Giants fans to know as well on the other side of this. Let's talk about, I guess, the I don't even know if we can call an elephant in the room anymore. I think it's pretty obvious that there's some, you know, debate to be had over over Daniel Jones and the quarterback that he is, you know, two years ago, it looked like Brian Dable was the was the quarterback whisper that everybody thought he was saving Daniel Jones's career gets him the big contract. And now this year, it seems like not only is Daniel Jones, like I feel like he's a sinking ship, but he's potentially taking table with him. It looks like almost just what's kind of the the situation there and the pulse on things. I think I'm kind of getting a sense of where it is from the fan base side, but you can talk about that too. But more so in that building, like what is their confidence level in Daniel Jones to to be the guy for this group? Well, it's it's a very loaded conversation. You're right, obviously. I mean, when Bryce Young got benched by the Carolina Panthers yesterday, as we sit here and talk, I mean, there are a lot of people with betting slips, probably of Daniel Jones to be the first bench quarterback who were surprised that it didn't cash in. I mean, that's really where it stands. When Joe Shane and Brian Dable got here, the plan was quietly. Hey, let's let's go through the 2022 season with Daniel Jones, give him his best shot, give the team the best shot with limited cap space, limited resources and not a very good roster. And then we're probably going to move on from there. We're probably going to have a hydraph pick. So they make the playoffs at nine, seven and one that season. They have a late first round pick where they end up taking a corner. Deontay Banks are out of range of the quarterbacks. And then last year, it kind of all starts falling apart. Daniel Jones gets hurt, but the offense was terrible before that. But it wasn't just Daniel, right? It was a bad offensive line. It was injuries. It was infighting on the coaching staff and really a dysfunctional operation run by Dable last year. And so now where that puts Daniel Jones is, okay, they paid him after that playoff season on a four year deal. They have the ability though, Spencer, to get out of it at a reasonable dead cap hit in the following two years at the end of this season. The key though is if he gets hurt and can't pass a physical next March, there's a $23 million injury guarantee attached to his salary for next season. Almost a Wilson in Denver last year. Very well said. And not only is that pertinent and something that's been discussed in New York a lot recently over the last, let's say eight months, but then let me tell you, Sunday morning when I'm on my way to the stadium at Washington versus Giants in Maryland, Adam Shefter puts out a report with a headline and a byline on it, reminding everyone Daniel Jones has this injury guarantee. Other coaches have been benched in similar or quarterbacks have beenched in similar situations. And so that's where we're at. We're at, okay, weeks now to remind everybody if this guy gets benched, here's why. Now all of that said, he played better and played well at Washington. So week one against Minnesota was an absolute disaster. And the fan base basically booed him off the field as well as the team. But week two, he was not the reason they lost three touchdowns, three touchdowns for the offense, two touchdown passes. And Malik neighbors who had 18 targets and had a really good game. If he doesn't drop that fourth down pass from Daniel Jones in the red zone. And if Brian Dable doesn't make a huge mistake, him and Joe Shane not activating a replacement kicker for an injured kicker that they started the game with in Grand Good. Oh, then they win the game and they're one and one. So that's where we're at. Daniel Jones up against it, but coming off a better game than you had in week one. Yeah. And the piggyback off the Brian Dable thing, what has to happen for him to be there next year? What do you think record wise they would have to prove to their fan base that they deserve to be there next year? That's a really good question, Eric I think, well, first, here's what I would say. Right now, they're the second lowest scoring offense in the league, 12 points per game through two weeks. Last year, they were the third lowest scoring offense in the league at 15.6. Brian Dable got this job because he and Josh Allen together ran one of the best offenses in football together. That's why he's the coach, right? And so he has taken over play calling full time this year after yo-yoing it back and forth last season from the offensive coordinator, Mike Kafka. So that was his kind of last resort here. I'm going to put my best foot forward. This is what I do best because frankly, on the game management side of things, he hasn't excelled as well. So you asked about a record, I say first and foremost for Dable, it is get the quarterback, the offense moving in the right direction, pass protection, you know, turnovers, but really just scoring points and getting in the end zone is number one. Eric, I personally think that if you ask me about what record they need, I guess I would come down like last year, they were six and 11. I think if they are below that number, then I think he's out. I think right now, but John Mara, the co-owner of the Giants, the thing he says every year now, he refuses to put a number on it. And I don't blame him for that. The thing he always says, though, is when I walk off the field at the end of the year, I want to believe and know that we are headed in the right direction. And so as you and I sit here right now, this goes for Joe Shane too, general manager. Right now, the Giants have regressed from where they were two years ago, from where they were three years ago, from where they were last year. So really throw the record out. They need to have a team that isn't, I mean, I'm sure you guys see it, you know, you're not in the New York area, but I could sit here and not tweet or say anything critical about the Giants. Nationally, they have really become a punchline. Daniel Jones is part of it, Dave O's part of it. But that has to change because you guys know if the owners are opening the newspaper or opening their phone and a website or showing up to the stadium and seeing it half empty in the third quarter, that's what speaks loudest. Would he have the chance to play almost? Because I think this is the one sort of get out of jail free card that some coaches get. Does he get to play the card of? Hey, I never have actually had a chance to do this with my quarterback, like the quarterback that I selected that that I get to sort of build around, because I feel like that is kind of the thing that a lot of these guys fall back on in those those situations. Is that something that could be on the table for more if it's, if, if, if, if, if Mara feels at the end of the season, there is no sense of direction. He's just flat out gone, and he doesn't get a chance to get that quarterback. That's a good, that's a really good question too. I think that's certainly a fair point for Dave Oldamink if he's in that spot. Yeah. You know, I think Shane and Abel, this, this comes down to how does ownership truly judge the resigning of Jones, right? If behind the scenes, you know, ownership was way more heavy-handed with that decision than anyone realizes, then then it would be a fair point for Shane and Abel to say, well, we, everybody in here knows we resigned him because we knew you wanted him to. John Mara was on the phone with Daniel Jones in the final hour before he resigned the deal, right? If that's the dynamic, then behind the scenes, you know, maybe there's a an unspoken handshake, shake agreement on something like that. But from my understanding of my information, like Joe Shane was working as hard as anybody to bring Daniel Jones back and sign him to that $40 million a year contract, the Giants felt like coming off the playoff year. Last year was going to be a season where they turned into a contender, frankly. They were talking about it behind the scenes. Abel actually wasn't happy when some players kind of put it out there. But really, the rebuild became a we're ready. Here we go. So I think it's hard, it's going to be hard for him to say, you know, I've had three years, but if it gets bad, they also, though, you know, to your point, they were very aggressive, more aggressive than I have seen in years about going all over the country, interviewing all these college quarterbacks, trying to get the result. So that hard knocks a little bit, too. Yeah. Oh, big time, you know, Drake, May, Jayden, Daniels, those two guys on their radar, they knew they weren't going to get Daniels, though, because he was going number two. So it was really Drake May at three, and then the Patriots didn't trade out, and that was that. So I, you know, I don't think it's a crazy thing for the, for the coach to come in and say that at the end, I would say also Spencer, Mara, and the Giants ownership, they are, they do understand how ridiculous it is that they have fired their last three head coaches during or after their second season. And with this regime, they are trying as hard as ever in recent times with me covering them. I've covered them since 2016. They're trying as hard as ever to maintain consistency in their leadership. But, you know, so that would be working in their favor, but, you know, it just depends on how bad it gets. We know how that goes in Cleveland sometimes. I was just about to say, it wasn't one of her years. That means the fans, he's probably been there, has the longest tenure, the last four coaches. And so we definitely understand that in Cleveland. So let's back to the field. What do you think the Giants have to do to get to come in the Cleveland and get a victory this week? They definitely have to stop the run on defense 215 rushing yards for Washington, Brian Robinson, Jr., kind of bullying them up front, big back. I'm actually pretty curious from your guys. And how you think the Browns with Jerome Ford with Nick Chub out could run the ball against the Giants and take advantage of that. Because if they can, I think it's just going to be a long day for the Giants because I don't trust the Giants really to score a ton of points against this Browns defense. But if the Giants can stop the run in Cleveland's not as imposing on the ground, then the pass rush can get after Deshawn Watson and the play action plays become less effective. But, you know, it's interesting as much as I said, the offense is a problem under the second lowest scoring team in the league. They're giving up 24 and a half points per game through two weeks. That's seventh worst in the NFL. And so, you know, to me, the recipe for the Giants in this game is stop the run forced to Sean Watson into obvious passing situations. Their secondary is still suspect in New York, but do that. And then obviously I haven't mentioned his name yet, but continue to unlock mid-week neighbors in the passing game. The number six overall pick out of LSU had 18 targets in that first game. And then also Devin Singletary at running back. Obviously you guys and everybody knows the Saquon Barkley decision and conversation and the drama that went on. You saw it on hard knocks. Devin Singletary in week one didn't establish the running game and the Giants had no answers for anything offensively in Washington. They had Devin Singletary going for over 90 yards and a touchdown. He did have a costly fumble, but that established and protected Daniel Jones. The fact of the matter is a lot of quarterbacks and Daniel's one of them, they need that running game to protect them. So that's how I see it folding from them. But I'm curious from your guy's angle, do you think with Ford and with their offensive line from what you've seen are the Browns, the type of team that could take advantage of a bad run defense here? Before we answer that, I'm going to let you know the Browns have yet to scorch on the four points. So they can feel good about that right now. Go ahead, Spencer. Yeah, no, I was going to say like I think what's interesting about that is this this offense has been advertised with Ken Dorsey coming in who obviously was the successor to Brian Dable in Buffalo. And he gets fired last year, comes in part of what's been advertised about this offense has been, well, hey, they're going to be passing a lot more. It's built around DeShall Watson and what he does well in his strengths. But what was interesting was with David Djoku out last week, we saw them getting to like these heavy sets where they had two extra linemen out there who reported it as eligible and they did that on the first play of the game. And then they mixed that in throughout the game. And there was a clear emphasis on listen, we need to run the football better than we did in week one against Dallas. Let's make sure we do that. So you bring up the sort of run game numbers and how that's been a bugaboo, if you will, for the Giants. That perks my ears up a little bit from the Browns angle because it's like they just had a really good game. They rushed for 125 yards last week. It was kind of a mix between Foreman and Jerome Ford. And they were able to do that effectively. And I think that allowed the rest of the offense then to get comfortable and to Sean to get comfortable. And then that freed him up to make some other plays and do some other things. So as much as they sort of have sold this thing as it's about to Sean, we're going to pass a lot more. I think the run game is still super valuable to this Browns team if they're going to have success offensively, whether it's against the Giants or whether it's against anybody the rest of the season. I think I think you make a great point there. It's interesting. Like the Giants, if you look at the quarterbacks, they played Donald and Daniels in Minnesota and Washington respectfully. Both quarterbacks have good games. Like I said, the Giants secondary, if the pass rush doesn't get there is suspect. But the players of the game for both offenses, the Giants have faced so far has been the running back Aaron Jones for Minnesota. They just controlled it. The Giants defense was never able to get a handle on it. And you guys know Sam Darnell with play action turns into a different quarterback, right? Yeah. And then the same thing happened with Jayden Daniels in Washington. They couldn't stop Austin Echler and Brian Robinson job, Brian Robinson Jr. And it opened things up for the rookie number to overall pick out of LSU. So to me, that is like, I would say the key of the game, you know, Cleveland, especially hearing you say that really seemed beneficial for, you know, kind of supporting and helping and taking some pressure off of Watson. To me, if Cleveland establishes that, you can you can send New York back on their plane right away. Speaking of Deshawn, because he came up here in the conversation, is Deshawn Watson a quarterback? Because, you know, back in the day, we know what he was. He led the league in passing. We continue to reference that in 2020. And that's, I think, the quarterback fans thought they were getting, but he hasn't really been there to this point. Is he a quarterback, though, whether it's around the league or specific to the Giants this weekend? Is he a quarterback that you think the Giants are worried about? So, yes, I think that they understand that, you know, like, like somebody said to me the other day, if Deshawn has has played so poorly now in recent years and, you know, Daniel Jones is the one everybody's ripping on all these morning shows, how come people aren't ripping, like, on the field? Why aren't people ripping Deshawn the same way they're ripping Daniel Jones? And I said, well, I know it was a long time ago, but he has elite, like, top three quarterback play on tape in the NFL. You know what I mean? Like, so I know it was a longer time ago, and I know it was a different situation, different team, and before his life changed. But that is still there, right? Like, that tape still exists of him doing that to NFL defenses. So I think the Giants understand he's not the same player now, but they also know that that's there. And if they assume it's not, you know, the Cleveland Browns have enough weapons. And also, like I said, their defense has struggled enough where it's like, they can't take anybody for granted. So I don't think he's the key to them succeeding. Like, I really think, I mean, Debo was on a conference call with us on Monday after that game. And outside of Singletary's fumble on offense, all he was talking about for corrections was run fits, tackling, run defense, competitive stamina on defense. Like, it was just bang, bang, bang, bang, all things that had to do with basically getting the ball shoved down your throat in the running game. So, you know, there might be more opportunities even for DeShawn because they're still keyed on stopping the run. But yeah, they're definitely not taking him for granted. They can't afford to take anyone for granted right now. Yeah, it's a situation. We're going into the Jacksonville game. I thought the Browns weren't physical on the line against the Cowboys. And I felt like they needed to go into Jacksonville and be physical and run the ball. Like, yes, they may need to do against the Giants if they're hoping to win. That's the recipe. And so I think DeShawn isn't who he was a few years ago, but I don't think the Browns need him to be that. I think they need him to make winning plays when it's time. And as long as you can run the ball effectively, you always have those little flashes of DeShawn that can be that guy from 2020 or whatever. Yeah, Eric, that is a great point. Like he can, you know, they're going to win the game if he doesn't lose it for them, I think would be a really good way of putting it to, you know, I think. And that that really, to me, like the point you're making, I think, is 100% true, which is that also just really falls on the game plan and not setting him up to fail. I mean, you know, other than the run game, the other thing Washington was doing a lot like, I don't know if you guys saw, but Jayden Daniel started that game 10 for 10 passing. And that was a week after Sam Donald started 12 for 12 passing against the Giants. The difference though was Donald was throwing the ball down the field. Daniel's in Washington, though, they knew that not only was the Giants struggling tackling in the run game, if they just threw those bubble screens outside to the wide receivers, and it's like a glorified running play outside the Giants struggle with the tackling almost like a almost like, you know, an extension of the run game as well. So even when DeShawn's dropping back to pass, that's where that's where they should go. Yeah, it's a good point. I'd be curious to see if the Browns work some of that in into their sort of eyes and extension of the run game type stuff. And yeah, it's, uh, it's an interesting conversation because I know DeShawn's just not viewed the same way that obviously used to be. But we'll see how that kind of comes to fruition to this weekend. Pat, while I have you, I feel like I'd be remiss if I didn't ask this question, do the Giants regret not re-signing Saquon Barkley? I know he had that drop, that key drop on Monday night. I'm sure a lot of Giants fans are happy to see that happen, especially because it was the Eagles. But, uh, do they, do you think, I don't do respect to Devin Singleton? I know he's a, he's a solid player, but do you think they have any regrets about that as they don't really have an identity right now in offense? They're trying to sort of figure that out. Great point. The last point you made, I think is the key, which is that they don't know what their identity is yet. And it's because he was their identity. And like I said, they did establish the run in week two without him. So you got a glimmer of, okay, maybe they can do it, but I'll just be totally honest. Washington's defense stinks. So it's hard to evaluate them against that team, but they do get credit for getting the yards. But the answer to your question is, I think that this is another reason why jobs are on the line for the general manager and the coach in New York, because ownership, you guys saw it, ownership did not want to lose Saquon. Yeah. And not only that, Joe Shane was getting some advice from his lieutenants in the front office that getting rid of Saquon was maybe a bigger deal than he realized or thought, right? He had people telling him what his real value was going to be. He had John Maris nephew, Tim McDonald, who's the director of player personnel of the organization saying to him on camera, if we let Saquon go, what is our identity going to be on offense? Because Daniel needs a running game. I mean, it's right there. You know, so yeah, I think they're not dwelling on it right now as far as how they're forming their team. And obviously they're trying their best to prove themselves right and the Eagles and Saquon wrong. But through two games, even though Saquon, obviously, that was a costly drop. And to be honest, not paying him what he wanted in New York had to do with Joe Shane believing he wasn't the receiver. He thinks he is. So that, you know, the Giants are watching that saying told you so for a day. But he does have two receiving touchdowns in two games. He has been the best offensive player for two games. And the Giants are one and eight against the Eagles and Cowboys in the last two years. So if that trend continues, like in week six, if they come, I think it's week six or seven, when the Eagles come in to MetLife Stadium, these are the kind of games where if it continues to go the way it looks like it's going and Saquon is churning while the Giants are not, it's just going to, the story will write itself, unfortunately. Yeah. Well, when thinking about it, when it all went down, I was like, you can't be serious, but we know how everybody use the running back. And so that's what it's about. You got to pay the quarterback and devalue the running back. And so it makes sense, but it doesn't make sense. Right. And here, you know, here's something I should have put in there too is so the idea behind this season, and again, you saw this on Hard Knocks, but once they couldn't get the quarterback, they started to say, okay, it's about Daniel. And again, this is why it's really hard for them to say, I haven't had my guy because this is now two straight years since the year they were supposedly going to move on from him that they've said, we're all in on Daniel. And the idea behind this season, neighbors as an example, was giving him his best weapons yet, his best line yet finally protecting him, having guys in the outside and a true number one receiver. Let's see if he can earn the contract or not. The problem though is, if you were really giving him his best chance, you would have found a way to have Saeklong Barkley end Malik neighbors. Like trading them out instead of adding one to the other, I think, is going to be one of the headlines of, if this does crash and burn, that's going to be one of the headlines of saying, man, they really were pretty close to maybe doing this a little bit better, and they just, you know, didn't do that. And I got one final question for you here in a second, but real quick, I do want to remind our listeners that bet online is the world's most trusted betting platform in your number one source for everything football. Bed online has every stat, every matchup and even live odds and spreads to bet on during the game. Think you know your stuff, get in on our 200,000 mega contest and pick five games against the spread every week for your chance for a weekly prize and share of $200,000. When the game's over, head on over to online casino and get in the game of Blackjack or poker or online with one of our 150 slot machines, head to the website today to get in on the action bed online. The game starts here. Pat, final thing to get us out of here for this episode, which has been tremendous. Your insight's been been absolutely awesome. And we appreciate it. It's just kind of an if statement. The giants will win against the Browns on Sunday if if they stop the run and they run the ball. That's that's really what it comes down to. They they've stopped the run. They forced to Sean Watson into obvious passing situations. And then on the offensive side, they run the ball, not only to move the ball and score points, but also to keep their defense off the field. They need to be able to control the game on their terms. And I should add this too. They also win if Brian Daybell as the offensive play caller and Shane Bowen, the defensive play caller can out scheme and out coach even if it's in certain situations. You know, Kevin Stafansky, Jim Schwartz, Ken Dorsey, I personally think that without Wink Martindale now in New York, the Giants have lost that schematic advantage. And I have as high of an opinion of Stafansky as a schemer and game prepare as anybody in the league. So I think the Giants are really up against it there in the coaching battle and a coaching match up. And so I think it has to be stopped the run run the ball, but also go toe to toe in a coaching match up that looks lopsided. In the Browns favor, that thinks this is the nineties. He says, this is this is what it's come to in New York, Eric. I don't know what else to say. I mean, that's where we're at. He is Pat Leonard does a tremendous job covering the New York Giants for the New York Daily News and the host of talking ball here as part of the Believe Network, a podcast. Pat, we are so thankful for your time, man. This was awesome. Really good preview. And some insight into this team that's coming to town this week. And we hope to see you in town this weekend. The dog check. Let's go. Thanks, guys. For Pat, for Eric, who you guys know all too well, Browns fans, Browns legend. We'll be back next week with more Browns talk, of course, here on the dog check until then, enjoy the week. And as always, go Browns. If you're a facilities manager at a warehouse and your HVAC system goes down, it can turn up the heat, literally. But don't sweat it. Granger has you covered. Granger offers over a million industrial grade products for all your operations, including warehouse HVAC maintenance. And even better, they offer access to experts and fast delivery. So you and your warehouse can both keep your cool. Call 1-800-granger, click granger dot com or just stop by. Granger for the ones who get it done. Bingo. All right, Phil. We're recording now. So it's live. Go ahead. Pick on me the way that you want to. Did I say that? I would say that to my son. And I mean, come on, man. Just go. This isn't CBS. All right. Be quiet for a few seconds. Why would people want to listen to the Sims complete podcast? Well, a couple of things. One, if you like to see sons pick on their father, this might be the place. If you want to see a place where the father just kicks he out of his son, this will be the place. What do you like about it, Matt? Ditto father, son dynamic duo talking about the game of football that we love and share and appreciate together. And you know, hey, it's an extension of what we did, right? Growing up, I was able to watch my father play football, then obviously watch him as a broadcaster. And then he taught me the game of football and share the wisdom that he learned throughout his playing career. And you know, hey, sometimes we're full of it. And sometimes we're, we actually know a thing or two. Well, we do do a lot of research. At least I do. I'm you, you little spotty, but you know, you're, you hang in there. It's fun. I love doing this and it's been awesome. Sims complete. Check us out wherever your podcasts are available on the Believe Network. Appreciate it. See you. If you liked the show, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe. It really does help the show to grow. Thank you for listening. [BLANK_AUDIO]