Joe, you've got to try on these pants. But George, we aren't the same size. It doesn't matter, try them on anyway. We'll pick them up off the floor first. Ah, here you go. Let me take my pants off and put these on. Hey, they do fit me as well as you. That's amazing, right? It's like they're magic. Let's buy them. Yes, let's. Let me just take them off. Excuse me, we like to buy these pants. Gentlemen, this is a Wendy's. Oh, and does this still work? The podcast is always an ass. Does this still work? I'm Joe Dixon. And I'm George Romaka. And today we're discussing the sisterhood of the traveling pants from 2005 and some historical context. First podcast-y stuff. You can reach us at dtswpot@gmail.com on Facebook, Letterbox, to enter our YouTube channel. Joe is on blue sky at jodixon.bsky.social. Please tell your friends about us. Even the dads who left their families and started whole other families without bothering to secure their relationships with their original kids and leave five-star ratings everywhere. You can pick what we watch and get extra per episode content by funding us on Patreon for as little as a dollar a month at patreon.com/dtswpot. And one more thing, we have a guest. Please welcome Joe's co-worker, friend, and a movie lover, Jackie Carr. Hi, guys. Let's be here. Hey, yay. So Jackie, what do you want to guess on this film? Besides me asking you to, too. Well, I figured in a movie about a teenage girl coming of age that you guys might need someone who wants a teenage girl to have to the discussion. I've never actually seen this movie before watching it for the podcast, but I've never enjoyed it. So glad to discuss it with you, too. Excellent, excellent. Yay. And I agree, we shouldn't just have two guys talking about this movie. Maybe even particularly these two guys. So Joe. Take us back to 2005. And that's the way it was. This film takes place in a lot of locations and covers a lot of topics. As I don't want this segment to be longer than the movie, I'm just going to narrow things down. Going into a particular order, let's start with documentary. A film genre we will never cover on this podcast. Nope. We strictly do fiction around these parts. And I must say, the boring-ass documentary film making you see in this picture might explain why. Not joking. There are a lot of great documentaries out there. But if you believe this movie, then no, there isn't. We don't stick only to fiction necessarily. We have done movies that are purportedly based on true stories. But there's still fictional versions of true stories. Yes, like a low in order. Yep. Anyway, what was a number of documentary in 2005? The most popular non-fiction flick of that year was a French picture called "March of the Penguins." That documentary covered a year in the life of Emperor Penguin's in Antarctica. It cost $8 million to make, and made it, and I'd pop $127 million at the box office. It would go on to win an Oscar for the best documentary the following year, mostly because Morgan Freeman narrated it. OK, if you say so. Despite it being about penguins, Americans still managed to make it controversial. Evidently, right-wingers saw this little way of thought it promoted family values, because for a year, male and female penguins had chicks they raised. But many critics pointed out that while these birds do engage in monogamy, it's only for about 12 months, then they move on to other partners. So it might be serial monogamy, but it's not the sort of monogamy right-wingers talk about. And then there is this. George, read this from Wikipedia. Matt Walker of New Scientist pointed out that many Emperor Penguin adoptions of chicks are, in fact, kidnappings, as well as behaviors observed in other penguin species, such as ill treatment of weak chicks, prostitution, and ostracism of rare albino penguins. For instance, well, it is true that Emperor Penguins often adopt each other's chicks. They do not always do so in a way the moralizers would approve of. And read what the director said about people putting a conservative spin on his movie. This is also from Wikipedia. I condemn this position. I find it intellectually dishonest to impose this viewpoint on something that's part of nature. It's amusing, but if you take the monogamy argument, from one season to the next, the divorce rate, if you will, is between 80% to 90%. The monogamy only lasts for the duration of one reproductive cycle. You have to let penguins be penguins and humans be humans. That sounds about right. By the way, George and Jackie, did either of you see this movie and are you aware of these arguments? - I have heard of the movie I've never watched it, but I do remember it being extremely popular at the time. - Yeah, I think I watched it with my kids, and no, I was not at all aware that there was controversy around it. - You were fortunate. Okay, now you also never saw it. Well, the story takes place in different places. The main characters are all from Marilyn. What was the most interesting thing happening in Marilyn that year that relates to this movie? According to both of my son and girl's soccer, number one Notre Dame prep felt a mercy magic. Rather than read the headline, George, why don't you read the first three paragraphs from the article? - Sure. Christina Carinesi's goal with five minutes left gave the host Mercy Magic girls soccer team a come from behind upset of number one Notre Dame prep, two to one yesterday. Carinesi scored from about 10 yards, breaking down the middle to pass from the right baseline by senior LaShauna Epps, a former defender moved to the front this season. We kept telling them that they can play with the number one team, said Jesse Whippo, the Magic's assistant coach. The girls were all smiles afterwards. - And quote, I know you're not much of a sports fan, George. I assume you never fall female soccer, a women's soccer. - Or men's soccer for that matter. - Or men's soccer for that matter. - How about you, Jack? Have you ever followed any sort of soccer? - No, I have not. Actually, my younger brother, he's very good at soccer. He almost went pro, but no, I don't follow any of the soccer teams, high school or professional, where I want to go. - What do you mean he almost went pro? What was, was he like, did he auditioned and didn't, I don't even know how it works. - Yeah, it was something he was considering doing. - Oh, oh, oh, oh. I'm just wondering if he will try it out or something, but just something he was interested in, okay. And finally, for those from the area, you know there was a knife attack that year in a mall, but as the worst thing in this movie that happens in the mall is a little girl passes out, we won't get into that. - It's not really a mall. - It's not really a mall? - It's not a mall, it's like a Walmart. - Yeah, I like all the mall. - We can't say in 2005, customers are not shopping in malls much, at least according to this article from The Daily Times, George Reed, this headline. - Consumers avoid the mall. In September, discounters flourish after hurricanes, but holiday outlook is foggy. I see what they did there. - I will quote, "The outlook for the holiday shopping season grew murkier Thursday as September sales results from the nation's big retail suggested the consumer anxiety about the economy is growing. Discounters like Walmart stores, Inc, had a silent month as Americans struggling with higher gasoline prices and the economic fallout from Hurricane Katrina shot for basics. For results, we're disappointing and mall-based apparel stores including Gap, Inc, and Telekorp, and Tal Butz, Inc. And according to a quick Google search, 2005 did see holiday shopping full short of previous years. Okay, George, tell us about sisterhood of the traveling parents. - Okay, this was directed by Ken Coppis, a guy with a very alliterative name, and Joe and I have both seen his work in 13 episodes of The Office. - And I also saw his work in The Brady Mac Show and Malcolm in the Middle. - Nifty. - Okay. - And this was based on the novel of the same name by Ann Breshears. - Okay, so no one here was read. - And this is also written by Delia Efron. No relation that I know of to Zach Efron, but that's just me playing name association. And I've seen her work in You've Got Mail, and it was also written by Elizabeth Chandler. - There's been a female writer named Efron so she was related to her, but I can't know her Efron. I wonder if she's related to know her Efron. - Huh, maybe. - I'm gonna say yes for the hell of it. Won't even check. - Yeah, 'cause this is the internet. (laughing) For blurbs, IMDB says, "Four best girlfriends had to plan to stay connected with one another as their lives start off in different directions. They pass around a pair of second hand jeans that fits each of their bodies perfectly." - Perfectly. - Perfectly. I mean, it did fit them all really well. Those four different pairs of pants that they used for the movie and-- (laughing) - And pretend it was all one pair. And pretended it was one pair of pants, yes. - Not just jeans that were Levi's. - Yep. - Magical Levi's. - They were just basically jays. Oh, you look so great in it. They looked like girls and jeans. I didn't think they looked particularly fantastic or terrible in it. It's like, all right. - You just don't know your clothes, Joe. - You're just wearing jeans. - I mean, you do have an extensive collection of Hawaiian shirts. - And, uh, sweater vests. - Mm-hmm. - Although it was, I mean, those never go out of style. - Mm-hmm. - Amazon says, "Coming of age adventure based on Amber Sheer's best-selling novel about a special 16th summer in the lives of four lifelong friends who are separated for the first time." - Doesn't one of them say she's 17? - I guess she had a birthday within a thing. No, 'cause the kids are all born within the same week, so they would all be 17. - Yes. - Or she might have just lied to make the guy think, you know, about age of consent laws. (laughing) - We'll get into it, but that might be it. - Yes. (laughing) - And that blurb also doesn't mention the pants at all, but I don't think it necessarily has to with a title like this movie has. - Nah, not really. And the pants really don't. There's names I can tell. Maybe you guys can put it out better to me than the plane. The pants don't seem to really play that big a factor in their lives. They just keep shipping it to each other for some bizarre reason, and not watching it 'cause that's disgusting. We'll get there. I'll get there. - Don't do that. It's gonna be pants you whoa, and you need to clean them there. (laughing) - So, the film opens to a voiceover by one of our four protagonists, Carmen, vaguely describing how a pair of jeans changed the lives of her and her three best friends, Lina, Bridget, and Tibby, over footage of the mechanized sewing of such a pair of pants. - So, I've read the summary and Wikipedia of the novel, and Carmen is a white girl. - Huh. - But I guess for the movie, they made her Hispanic, because America for error was playing her. - Yep. - Really those friendships where this Hispanic girl is friends with no other Hispanics. (laughing) Which means a couple of the interactions in this movie were invented for the movie. - Mm-hmm. - Hi folks, this is Joe. I'm just interrupting for a second. They just say, I made a boo boo. No, the character is in fact Hispanic in the book. I don't know where I got the impression that she was not. So, our little discussion there, eh, ignore it. (laughing) Sorry. - She goes on to describe how their mothers were all in the same prenatal aerobics class, and that they were all born within a week of each other. - Did you ever attend a pre-natal robust class for any of your kids at George? - No, I did not. Because I was never pregnant. - You attended it with your wife. - No. - What? - I figured you weren't going on your own. (laughing) - I would be assumed. - Did you see any of the fathers in the room with them? - No, but I'm sure. - And real life guys attend with their wives or some do. Some like it's a band and I go, the men can't come. - I think you're thinking more about Lamar's classes, Joe. - Just tend to be more a couple-centred thing. Where, you know, during the breathing. - Oh, you don't think they would sit in on this thing? - No. - No. - Not necessarily. - Yeah, this is when men would say, yes, the wife is away, now I can watch porn. (laughing) I have a dim view of men, apparently. Bridget was first. If they have a leader, it's her. We see a tween scene of a ballet recital where Lena falls down and gets mocked by boys in the audience. Bridget gets off the stage and pummels them with a rolled up program. - Apparently adults weren't around. Now they're just just watching this as a little girl. He needs kids as opposed to like, hey, hey, hey. Stop that, honey, that's so not appropriate. - And paper cuts are real things too. She's saying. - Also, I remember being a little boy. I wasn't going to just sit there and have a girl hit me like I can see him. (laughing) None of those boys come out swinging, I don't think so. - We see a scene of adolescent Carmen on the night her father left, getting phone support from Lena, who stays on the line until Carmen falls asleep. - Mm. - And we see Tibi organizing and directing them in her lifelong goal of making a seemingly aimless documentary. (laughing) - It's weird that, well, I guess it's probably not weird, but if someone's in the documentary, she thinks you could see her watching documents over at referencing documentaries, she never does. It's like, I want to do a documentary, but I don't watch them. I don't deal with them. I don't want to know from them. - Well, who wants to watch a movie about people watching other movies? Especially if she's the only person doing it. I mean, if she forced her friends to watch documentaries, that'd be something different, but. - That is a bunch of films. I mean, I'm mainly thinking of Woody Allen, but there's a lot of films where people are watching other movies. And what was the film we saw with all the mirrors? Lady for Shanghai, they're watching another movie and that, that people, it happens. - Yeah, it's for this, it's three teams. - Different, yeah. - They're all there, you know. - Yeah. - Yeah, two is gonna want to watch some goddamn documentary. (laughing) - That's why we don't do, you know, a video edition of this podcast, 'cause who wants to watch a video with people talking about movies? - And we're going to do a live podcast, one of these days. - One of these days. And as teenagers, they're all present and supportive of Bridget at her mom's funeral after her mother commits suicide. - I really have you talking that's really not dealt with through, actually. - It is not. - Sick. - 'Cause the first thing I think of when I think of a parent committing suicide is that it ups the chances of the child committing suicide by like 150%. - Well, but according to this movie, it just makes you gonna get laid earlier than the other girls. - Yeah, then we'll get there. She sums this all up, thusly. - Together, it was a ziply formed, one single, complete person. Wild, unstoppable Bridget. Skye and beautiful Lena. Tibby the Rebel. And me, Carmen. The writer. - It wasn't until I heard it this time that I caught a little hint of disdain on the, and me, the writer. The writer. I assume in the book version, she actually writes the book. - Maybe. - Because in this, it doesn't look like she becomes a writer at all. - I mean, they all write letters to each other. - They do write letters. It was something I also, I didn't know Teenage Jackie. Were you a big letter writer? I don't remember Teenage Girls being into a letter writing. (laughing) - Yeah, I would say so, and I think after sixth grade, my first friend went to summer camp. So we read write letters when they were in summer camp, and I was at home, that was the letter writing. Also, I spent part of my tenth grade year in New Jersey at another school, so we had write letters back and forth. I mean, granted, this was a free cell phone. I guess 2005 or still in the early cell phone stages where a lot of teenagers might not have them, so I think that's where the letter writing comes in. Or you might have still had to pay for long distance back at the time, so. - I would think they would use a computer though, email each other. - No, I think this movie was supposed to have taken place before 2005, because the two scenes that they were in an airport, the people who aren't getting on the plane are at the gate, not being left at a security checkpoint. - Good catch, yeah, this is definitely not post 9/11. (laughing) - So at 16, they have never been apart, but that is about to change. So let's introduce these ladies. Richard is played by Blake Lively, who I know from The Town, Deadpool of Wolverine, and Cafe Society. - I know Blake Lively, mostly from Gossip Girl through TV series where she became a star. This is a couple of years after this movie, so it's interesting to go back and see her young herself. - Nifty, the Gossip Girl is also based on a young adult fiction series. - Yes, it is. - Well, it's Gossip Girl, like, they would pet out a magazine in their school. The Gossip Girl people are, is that right? I never liked the shows, that's what I assumed it was about. - Not quite, it was about rich, upper east side prep schoolers, and basically the person would spread, I believe it was a website and they would spread Gossip about all these different teenagers. It's kind of like, back when we had like-- - Like an online burn book? - No, it was more like that we had on Provost Hilton and all that celebrity Gossip, I guess it was their prep school version of that type of thing. So the, basically the whole mystery is, like, one of these teens is doing the Gossip thing and is Gossip Girl, so virtually find that out. - Well, all righty. And Lina is played by Alexis Badal, who we know from the show in Sin City, and I've seen in Rushmore. And I saw her in a couple of episodes, like all of them, of Gilmore Girls. Common is played by America Ferrera, who we know from the show from Real Limit Have Curves, and I saw in Barbie. And I know from her voice work, Ian had a train your dragon. - And I know her from her TV show, Ugly Betty. She was one of the first, yes, what would be the TV version of Call Size, but necessarily in real life. So she was a great role model for Women at the Time. - Okay. - Tibby is played by Amma Tablin, who I know from Django Unchained. And I know her from Joan of Arcadia, where she is playing a modern Joan of Arc who gets messages from God. She also did a couple of early 2000s, harm the views she was and the grudge and the ring series at the time. - Okay. - All righty. So together they hit up a vintage clothing store in their hometown of Bethesda, Maryland. They find a pair of pants that they all fit perfectly into, despite having obviously different body types. They buy the pants. - First they start with them being in the dresser room, but then they suddenly find them all outside of the dress room in the middle of the store taking off their pants and trying to be like, "Whoa, girls, girls, girls, what are you doing?" - It's like they got fed up with it during filming and we're just like, you know what? Forget about the dressing room. Just do it out in the middle. But they forgot to go back and reshoot the original ones that way. That's the only excuse I can come up with for why there wasn't a store, you know, clerk going up to them saying, "No, get in the dressing room." (laughing) You're underage, but even if you weren't, you can't be doing this out here. Or where we were on the Jackie, you're the female voice. Do girls. (laughing) When it's four views, I forget the dress room. Let's all dress right out and the middle of the store. - Well, in that type of small store, especially small vintage stores like that, the dressing room areas might be really small. So I'm gonna say that they couldn't be able to put a camera in the dressing room. - No, we generally do not get dressed outside, although there are communal dressing rooms. I know filing's basement was famous for that in the day. It's back in the day, it was an open dressing room and everyone was just out there in their underwear. - Turn to fake. I don't know of any male communal dressing rooms. I've never heard of that before. - At night, they sneak into the aerobic studio their mother's met at and hold an improvised candlelet ceremony to create the titular sisterhood of the traveling pants. They're all about to spend their first summer apart from each other and they create some rules. - Number one, each sister gets the pants for a week. - Number two, send a letter with the pants telling what exciting thing happened while wearing them. Number three, no picking your nose while wearing them. - Rule number four, any removal of the pants must be done by the wearer. And this is very specifically aimed at Bridget for sexual gatekeeping reasons, I guess. - I guess. - They immediately tell us that Bridget is the more sexual one and Leela is the prune. So that's the running theme throughout the movie. - Yep, five, never watch the pants. That's your favorite rule, right, Joe? - That is disgusting. - I don't get how any of them thought that was gonna go down or that good things would keep happening to them wearing those pants the longer those pants went unwashed. Oh yeah, I do six, no double cuffing. So no rolling them up twice. - Again, who cares? - Number seven, no wearing a belt with a tucked in shirt. - I mean, I do that all the time, but I am not a teenage girl. - I mean, again, I don't know why would this affect the magic of the magic pants, I don't know. Anyway, number eight, no saying or thinking that you look fat while wearing the pants. - Okay, sure, why not? - Thought crime. - And number nine, pants equal love, which isn't really a rule. - No, it's not. - It's just an opinion. It's also a category error somehow. The girls are about to spend their 16th summer apart from each other. Bridget is going to a soccer camp in Baja, California, Mexico. I didn't know that was a place, but apparently it's a place. - It is, Baja, California is in Mexico, yeah. - Lena is going to spend the summer with her grandparents in Santorini, Greece. Carmen is going to visit her father in South Carolina, and Tibby will be staying local, working at Walmans, a discount superstore not unlike Walmart. In fact, it is very, very similar to a Walmart. First up is Lena, whose final leg of travel is by donkey. Her grandparents, Yaya and Papa, along with a small army of other family, are delighted to see her and vow to keep her under lock and key. - As you do. - As one does with their visiting relatives. Yaya is played by Maria Constitrau, and Papa is played by George Taliardos. Bridget's final leg is by bus. As soccer camp gets underway, she develops an obsessive crush on one of the coaches, Eric. - Eric is played by Mike Vogel, who I know from Blue Valentine. And does anybody remember the controversy from that movie? - No. In the movie, this is stars Ryan Gosling, and oh, I can't remember if the actress was in it as well. - Michelle Williams, I believe it was. - Yes, I believe it was, I'm not sure. Williams, and there's a simulated oral sex scene with him going down on her, and apparently this is almost guided and x-rayed him. Even though it's not that graphic, but apparently the sense is like (gasps) how could you show this in America? Think about the children, who wouldn't be old enough to get into see this movie? Well then. - Well, both of them were also teen stars themselves, so I'm sure some of the children would try this, you can just see it just because they like these actors. - Yeah, I guess sure. Carmen's mother tells Carmen to come home if she gets lonely, because she knows that her dad, Al, works a lot. Carmen's final leg is in her dad's SUV. Carmen says they hadn't spent more than four days together at a time since she was 10, and he only came to visit twice a year. So she's really looking forward to having him all to herself for the entire summer. - Okay. - He waits, yeah. He waits until they get home, and his fiance, Lydia Rodman, comes out to tell his daughter that he's got a whole other family now. Kids included, and he's going to be remarried soon. - Now, we all, I mean, we'll get into the credits here, but obviously this is implying that Al's not a great parent, but this is wildly insane. How could the girl, and it doesn't mean that at least talk to his ex-wife? How could this child not know who the dad is gonna get remarried and have a bunch of kids? - The thing is, they talked all the, like him and Carmen talked on the phone all the time. He just never mentioned this. - Just skipped his mind. - It is, no, it's not a skipped his mind. It's a he just hid it from her until he couldn't hide it anymore. Which, it's not the most unbelievable thing to happen in this movie. But it does make someone just a monster. Like he is a horrible father for that to just bomb his kid with this, like he knows. He knows that she expects to have him all to herself for the entire summer. And he knows that's not gonna happen, and he doesn't tell her that until it's too late for her to turn around. That is some grade A level bullshit. (laughing) You have to wonder, what the hell did they talk about on the phone? He doesn't bring up here. She never asked him, are you seeing anybody? He never mentioned that he's seeing anybody. Never asked him what he does all day. What movies he's seeing, like odd, nothing. Carmen's mother is played by Rachel Ticotten for the show we've seen her in falling down. And I've seen her in "Natural Poor and Killers." I've seen her in "Total Recall," "Don Juan DiMarco," and "Con Hair." Alles played by Bradley Whitford, who I've seen in "Get Out" and "Cabin in the Woods." Yes, we all know he was in "West Wing." I didn't watch "West Wing." Lydia Rodman is played by Nancy Travis. And for the show we've seen her in "Three Men and a Baby," and I've seen her in "Revenge of the Nerds 2 Nerds and Paradise," "Sent of a Woman," "Billy Madison," and "Bicentennial Man." So apparently I'm a Nancy Travis fan. (laughing) Do you know any of Nancy Travis' work of a Jack? - I have seen "Three Men and a Baby." - Okay. - I think I saw it when it first came out in the theaters. - At "Warmans," Tibi is dealing with being an angst-ridden rebel while also trying to hold down a job. She gives directions to some kids while sporting a price sticker on her forehead. Tibi hears a crashing sound and rounds the corner to see one of those kids, Bailey, passed out on the ground and calls for assistance. The young lady is taken to the hospital and Tibi is shaken. Bailey is played by Jenna Boyd. - I found, I don't say that, I didn't find that saying weird, but, well, I just, a kid passes out the store and I don't, eh, it just seemed really weird. She doesn't really care what happened to her afterwards. - Also, I found it odd that she didn't try to call for the parents first or look for any parents. - Yes, that's a nothing, yeah. - I mean, we later find out that Bailey is 12 years old, so I'm sure she could have been there by herself, but I did find it a little odd that, you know, Bailey was just taken away with no parents being notified as far as we saw in the movie. - Yep, mm-hmm. - Lena has the pants first. She's wearing them, sitting on a stool on a dock, trying to sketch the goings on. She catches sight of a hunky fisherman and leans to get a better look. That stool tips her into the water and the pants catch on some rebar, keeping her from rising. That fisherman saw it happen and dives in, unhooking her pants and basically saving her life if we assumed she wouldn't have figured it out on her own, what with her leg not moving when she wanted it to and all. On his boat, he lends her some clean clothes and introduces himself as Costas Dunas, who attends university in Athens. He also doesn't take no for an answer and pressures her into helping him handle the fish. She decides to go and he asks her to a dance. She declines, for now, and Costas is played by Michael Raddy. - You know, and according to the summer I read in Wikipedia, the families want these two to get together, but I'm misunderstanding it ends up breaking them up, you know, the sort of breakup and then they get back together sort of thing. But it's not if the two fans hate each other, that at least according to what I read. - You mean it's not the plot to Romeo and Juliet first? - No. - Meanwhile, Bridget is on a beach challenging Eric to a foot race. She does her best to seduce him, but he's not biting. For now. There's a lot of for now in this movie. Carmen calls her mom after her first dinner with Al's new family. She complains that they say grace now, and not for the reasons I would. But because they couldn't get him to go to church with them before the divorce. And she complains that the water in the toilet is blue. I cannot believe that this child has never been to a house of somebody who puts a toilet tab in the tank. - Or even like a medical facility. - Right? I mean, I was once went to a doctor and he had blue water in the toilet. I didn't think it was really a big deal. - When her mom threatens to come down herself, Carmen's tone changes. - Look, okay, you'd never want him to be happy and that's why you blame him. And this is gonna work out great. It's going to be fine. - That's different than what you were just saying. She turned on a dime there. - Lena writes to Tibby about meeting Costas, questioning the magic of the pants that almost drowned her, then mails the letter with the pants. We get four montages in this of just the goings on in mail rooms. - Mm-hmm, and it turns out not that interesting. - Yeah, it's nothing like the procedural drama surrounding nuclear weapons that we got in Crimson Tide and Dr. Strange Love. - Not at all. - Yaya finds Costas shirt in the laundry and asks who's it is. When Lena tells, the family gets all angry because Costas family and theirs are bitter enemies. She makes Lena swear to never again meet with him. - If they were all that hot and bothered by it, you think they would have mentioned that before she met this guy. - Yeah, stay away from anybody with the doing its last name. - Mm. - Back in Bethesda, Tibby is reviewing coworker footage for her documentary when there's a knock at the door. It's Bailey, the girl from the floor in the store, with the pants, which got delivered to her house by mistake. They don't get off to a great start with Bailey accusing Tibby of stealing money out of her wallet while she was unconscious, but Bailey is fascinated by Tibby's documentary and assigns herself to be Tibby's assistant. - The most bizarre part of that whole conversation was that no point does Tibby, this girl ever asks, oh, what happened? Why were you sick? Why did you pass out? You passed out into the store, are you okay? No interest at all, what happened to her at all? No, I wasn't mentioning it whatsoever. Nope. And she's supposed to be the good guy in this story. Like, well, she seems like a kind of a monster move. I didn't give a damn about you. What do I care? What are you, you 12-year-old passing on the store? It happens every week. What do I care? I mean, she's only worked at the store for a week, so one out of one weeks have contained a child passing out in the store. - I guess. - If she extrapolates, she can expect that to happen every week. Carmen has a tennis date with her dad, but Lydia asks him to stop by her son's soccer game on the way. They end up staying for the whole game, two Carmen's annoyance. And I put this on Carmen, because it seems like at no point did she say, "Dad, we're supposed to go play tennis." - Yeah. - Like, you can do that. You can just advocate for yourself. You'll do it later, all angry. If you did it now, you might not have stayed for the whole soccer game. Anyway, at the end, Lydia shows up saying, "There's a problem with their wedding venue." And Al leaves with her, because she needs him now, tasking Lydia's son to play tennis with Carmen. Well, she plays hard and beans him in the head with the ball. - I generally thought, when he said, "Oh, let the go with yours." Okay, it's not really your step brother, whatever this boy, step brother to be, step brother to be, go up with him, I thought there was going to be some sort of romance thing going on there. It's weird that, I guess it's not weird, but I was just surprised that seemed to be where that was going. But no, we just see them play tennis and that's it. She hits them with the ball and he goes nowhere. - I thought the same thing too, but this is a PG read and movie. So I guess they weren't going to go there. I also found it odd that he had just played a soccer game and now he's going to play tennis. - You're playing tire? He's not tired? - I thought that too. - Yeah. That was weird. Like, wow, thanks for volunteering me for this, not even my real dad. (laughing) Picture, I just played a soul soccer game. I'm going to go play tennis, thanks. - I mean, Carmen having just stood there for X number of hours watching somebody else play soccer is also tiring. Like, I don't know why she was up for it then. Others running off of adrenaline. But I feel like the weird one here, because at no point did it ever cross my mind that these two could possibly get involved with each other romantically because they're family and it would preclude that. But I guess I'm the weird one. (laughing) With enough family yet. - Right, plus the other girls had love interests in the movies and Carmen's not shown with a love interest. So I think that might have been just toward that. - Maybe. - Thought process rather than just us being perverts. (laughing) - I mean, you guys are judging by what I see on Pornhub, you're not perverts. (laughing) You're fairly normal just by the titles of things. - It's just weird 'cause why is that singing there? 'Cause it doesn't add to the plot at all. - It's a dare to create confusion around why he's not there later. - Yeah, but again, you could have done that. It didn't have to even go off playing tennis, 'cause it was like, hey, let's just eat something, or, hey, let's have a quick conversation. Like, oh, he's at the hospital. - He's at the hospital. - He's at the doctor. That was a misunderstanding and Carmen. We'll get there in a second. - Oh yeah. - Lina has a talk with Costas about what her family said. Costas' grandfather says Lina's grandfather cheated him, and Lina's grandfather says Costas' grandfather sold him bad fish that's sickened to the patrons of his restaurant. Lina says she can't see him anymore and walks off. - Because we need a tension. - Yep. As Tibby leaves work, she feels complaints from her manager about not giving receipts and wearing jeans in spite of the dress code. You know, the jeans. - Yes, 'cause she's a rebel. Outside, she finds Bailey with all of her recording gear ready to start assisting, and even has a subject for her to film. - Would you really say something about the mom? 'Cause apparently, Bailey went over the house and, hey, give me all this expensive equipment of your daughters, my child, you've never seen before, except in one instance, you really don't know how close we are, and give it to me. Sure, sure girl, I'll give it to you. - Yep. - This expensive equipment, I don't even know if I know where you live, but yeah, I think it. - And how does she care if she doesn't drive? That stuff would've been difficult for her. That kid just swept all that stuff, yeah. - Well, Tibby's mom did seem a little distracted 'cause she had two younger children, so maybe she wasn't paying as much attention, maybe that kind of shows how she wasn't paying as much attention to Tibby as Tibby lied of wanted her to. - Ah, maybe, perhaps. - That's a good observation. They head over to a quick Mark convenience store where Brian McBrian, really, (laughing) is a fixture at the arcade console for Dragon's Lair 3D. His passion for the game is infectious. Tibby and Bailey quickly become fans. - Brian McBrian is played by the Anado Nam, live scene in Wave with By Night. Now, that's awesome, I have to both of you. Why is this character there? We never see him again. We never see him again, but we do hear his name dropped later. - I thought, again, this is a boy she was gonna hook up with, but again, nothing really happens. - I mean, there is a sequel. - Yeah, maybe in the sequel, I guess. - Maybe in the sequel. Carmen enters the kitchen speaking Spanish, confusing her impending step family. She turns to her father, who she knows knows Spanish, but he doesn't know how to yes and her shenanigans. This is amusing because Bradley Whitford does know how to yes and, and according to IMDB trivia, frequently derailed filming by doing improv on set. - Well, he certainly sells more interesting than the character he plays, I'll tell you that. - Carmen asks where Paul, the brother is, and her dad, Lydia, and Krista all get weird about it. She chases him down outside to get a real answer, and gets one. - He's in Atlanta, honey. Visiting his father, his dad's in a facility. He's an alcoholic. Every month, Paul takes a bus to visit him, Krista refuses to see him. She's not ready for that. Lydia doesn't want to upset her by talking about it, so we just say that Paul's out for the day. - Thanks for the heads up, dad. - Yeah, like, things you might want to have told your daughter beforehand, asshole. But that's where, like, the beaming in the head became a move the plot along thing, because-- - I say which-- - The first thing was he had a doctor's appointment. Oh, is it because I beat him in the head with a tennis ball, did I concuss him? Bridget over here is Eric talking about going to a cantina, which is the bar in Mexico, and assumes that because he was talking in front of her, he was inviting her to meet him there. - Because why not? - Yeah. We'll find out exactly what character trait she has that leads her to those kinds of conclusions. (laughing) Tibby and Bailey are editing footage. Bailey asks about the pants, and Tibby gives a quick recap. Tibby gives her permission to try to pants on, and then gets called away to help with her baby sister. Bailey tries them on, and they fit her perfectly, too. - Not. - Not. The magic is always so strong, I guess. She records some footage of herself that we won't see until later. Tibby mails the pants off the carman with a letter complaining about the cost of postage, and how nothing happened while wearing them, except that she gained a smart Alec assistant. - I am curious as to why everyone is accessed with these pants, including this little girl, who wasn't even there when it was doing all the way, can all fit us. - The pants are clearly magical. - I mean, it's in the title. (laughing) - Which is, how do they know what's, I mean, why would she-- - 'Cause it's in his make it all. 'Cause they know that your life is titled "The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants," and that they should be invested in them, Joe. - You say she read the script? - Yes. - Okay. - Carman is woken to Lydia, asking if their Mexican housemate can grab the sheets. Awkward! And also wouldn't be the awkward scene it was if Carman wasn't Hispanic. (laughing) Which makes me think that this scene was written specifically for the movie and wasn't in the book. - Oh yes. - As well as the speaking Spanish in the kitchen scene. Leona strategically positions herself to sketch the market where Costas will undoubtedly be selling his fish. He does that and spots her sketching the church where his parents were married. They died in the US in a car wreck when he was 12 and he came to Greece to live with his grandfather. She plays her cards closer to her chest, frustrating him. Later, she witnesses a tender moment between her grandparents. She goes down to the water, strips to her skivvies, and goes for a swim. Costas sees this and joins her. - It's a good thing he just happened to be walking by. He happened to see her stripping to her skivvies and jump in the water. - Mm-hmm. - And not notice that she was crying immediately before that and take that as a maybe I shouldn't be here right now. (laughing) - He also knows he did not skit. Go down to his skivvies. He wore, he kept his pants on. Yeah, he just jumped right on in. - Took off his shirt though. - Yeah he did. Bailey doesn't show up to assist after Tibi gets off work. So she heads to Bailey's house, but nobody's home. A neighbor informs her that Bailey is at the doctor. She has leukemia and recently her family decided to stop treatment. So this new friendship has an expiration date. - It does. Did this shock anybody when you're by surprise for the twist? - I was a little surprised that it was this fatal. I was thinking maybe she had a chronic illness that she would have to adapt and be there as a friend and learn how to care for somebody who needed more help and some shit like that. But no, she has to learn a whole different coping set. - Yeah, I mean, just the fact that again, this girl passes out and this woman never thinks that woman is young lady. Never thinks to ask her about it is still very weird to me. She has to wait for neighbors to tell her to get as a leukemia. - Mm-hmm. Carmen arrives home from somewhere. Krista, the sister, has a friend over and asks, "Is that her?" As if Krista had been describing her as a circus sideshow attraction. Spotting the traveling pants package on her bed saves her mood from tinking. - Mm. - At the cantina, Bridget finds Eric already a few drinks in. She gets him dancing, but even drunk, his sense of propriety asserts itself to Bridget's frustration. For now. - For now. It seemed like it's very easy for the girls to get off campus to go to this cantina. You think, uh, I mean, it's not prison, but so you think it'd be hard for the girls to just wander off like that, but evidently not. - Nope, I mean, they sneak. You know, they crouch down and walk slightly less than upright, which means nobody can see them. - Yes, bad old trick. Is that how you snuck out of things, Jackie? Did you crouch down a little? (laughing) - No, I wasn't taken to cantina. So Bridget, that was a weird. - And bless your heart. (laughing) - We get a falling in love montage for Lena and Costis, including her sketching him like one of Jack's French girls. - Mm. - Tibby lets Bailey lead an interview of one of her other coworkers and thinks she does a good job. She's acting weird though, and Bailey knows why. She confirms that Tibby now knows about her cancer and asks if she's being extra nice because of it. Tibby says she might be, and that honesty is good enough for Bailey. - Mm. - And I could see that a strangely, maturely self aware moment for Tibby. - Mm-hmm. - My motivations, are they pure in this? Maybe not, and I'm aware of that, and I'm gonna say that out loud. That's interesting for a 16 year old. - I guess, although you have to wonder like would Bailey prefer to be mean to her kids? I mean, what other response was someone supposed to do when they finally got a disease? - Mm-hmm. - Well I think they need Tibby's sort of this emo girl with the blue hair and nose rings, so I think there was supposed to be a certain attitude that Tibby had that was noticeably softened, whereas one of the other girls might not have. - What am I not of, then it's something I would've been with something earlier. - Yeah, it would've been more simple than it, than the first one. So I think maybe Bailey was just looking to be treated normally and I have someone flaunting all over her and feeling sorry for her. - Yeah, I guess, well she surely doesn't have to worry about that with her parents. We'll just let her run all off it over to where she is. - Olivia takes Carmen who is wearing the pants and Krista shopping for bridesmaids outfits. The shop staff are baffled by Carmen not being a size zero and are so indelicate about it that it broke my suspension of disbelief for a minute. (laughing) The script is aware of this and Carmen calls it out. And yes, that's how I'm describing this body-shaming mess of a scene. - Mm, you don't think it would've gone down like that or they'll openly say, "Oh, we don't understand "the size of this person. "We've never had anyone of the size "that ever walking in a store." - What was the movie we saw where the black guy walked into the suit store and the white suit, the shop people were so fucking racist to him that we were like, "There's no fucking way that would've happened." - I think that was boomerang. - Yeah, it reminded me of that. Like that was inserted ham-fistedly as fuck. (laughing) You're like, "I do get to make sales in the store, "you're just rude to customers." It's like insane. Big mistake, big, huge. - The final shop, ladies, obviously, had little customer service, but 2005 was definitely before we really got into body positivity. So I'm sure there were stores that only carried up to certain sizes. I mean, there still are a lot of designers who only design up to maybe at women's 10 or 12. I'm not sure what size the character was supposed to be. So it's not as unrealistic as you would think. - Oh, okay, all right. - Good to know. Brigitte tries to impress Eric with her soccer skills. They have a moment of getting real at the beach. - You scare the hell out of me. - Single-minded to the point of recklessness. - What? - It's what the school's gonna call me. - So, Kit watched this with me, and by the way, Jackie, Kit wanted me to make sure you know she thinks you are an absolute gem of a human being for sitting in on this episode. (laughing) - Close up. - Because she said of this scene, no school psychologist would ever say those words to a child. (laughing) Like, that is a, like, I am very active in the polyamory subreddit. And there's a book called "Polly Secure" written by Jessica Fern. It is a very good book, but it was not the book Fern wanted to write. The book she wanted to write and did is called "Polly Wise". "Polly Secure" is all about attachment theory as it can apply to non-monogamous relationships. And an unfortunate thing that people take away from this book, which I don't necessarily think the book is at fault for, is a pathological understanding of attachment styles. They see themselves as having an attachment style, like an insecure attachment style. I am a fearful, avoidant person. When that's not the case, the case is that they have fearful, avoidant behaviors that they learned in relationship contexts where those behaviors kept them safe. And now if they're in not insecure relationships, they're going to learn new behaviors because it's a lot easier to unlearn a behavior or even a set of behaviors than it is to unlearn an identity that you have assumed for yourself. A psychologist telling a child, you are single-minded to the point of recklessness is putting such a destructive identity into that child's head that they should be removed from that job position and barred from ever practicing it again. (laughing) - Well, not in this world. Not in the world of a traveling pants. - I'm going to step off of my soapbox now. - Anyway. - Yeah, so that's how this script justifies writing a 17-year-old girl as a sexual predator. For now though, she is happy to just race him on the beach. - I have to say, this is written by women, although I think-- - Uh-huh. When I was watching this movie, one of the things I said is the scariest thing I'm going to learn about this movie is that it was written by women. (laughing) Because I could see a man writing this movie. - Oh, it's male fantasy, are you kidding? Big pursuit by a younger woman. This is like Woody Allen's 30 years of doing that stuff. - Well, the guy was in college, and she was 16, so that's what a five-year age difference at most, I mean. - Yeah, well, she says she's 17. - Right. - And I think he's 20. - That is, 16 to 20. - There's a power dynamic there, 'cause he's a coach, and she's a player, that he knows damn well, and expresses that he knows damn well. He should be, you know, wary of and respecting. And this goes where she wants it to go, and then something happens that we're gonna have to fucking get into. But we'll get there. Lena sneaks off for a nighttime fishing boat date with Costas. I had to, I made a decision. I was gonna do that thing that I sometimes do, where you have a movie that jumps back and forth between a thousand different storylines, where I just write every storyline out, and I read it. - Right. - I decided not to for this, and I'm not sure it was the right decision. (laughing) Because I have that line about Lena's thing, and then I have Carmen, who'd run off after the dress debacle, arrives home at night, thinking they might be looking for her. Well, they're not. Her dad and his new family are just having a pleasant dinner together. So, Carmen throws a rock through the window. Then she calls Tibby's answering machine from the bus station saying she's coming home. (laughing) - This film goes out of its way to show the dad, as Al here, as just the biggest A-hole. So what happens at the end, it's just so freaking unbelievable, it's ridiculous. - Tibby is laying under the stars with Bailey, as they have a conversation about death and fear of missing out. Again, strangely wise conversation for these two characters of their ages to be having. - Mm. - Almost like they were written by an adult. (laughing) - Almost. - It's somehow night in Greece and on the US East coast. (laughing) - Are you saying that it isn't night in America when it's night in Greece? - I mean, it might be just dark in both places at the same time if I'm time zoning correctly in my head, but they were on the boat for a while. - Mm. - But Lena is using some of this date to fill costs to sin on her besties. And he says he sees beyond her looks, and then they kiss. - That's an interesting little conversation. Ah, yeah, let me tell you about my friends. Oh, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Oh, that's interesting. Oh, you're so beyond your looks. And that's a kiss. All right, sure, why not? That's a good segue, I guess. - Mm-hmm. I mean, it does have a more graceful flow to it than I gave it. - Yeah, yeah. - I aim for 2,000 words. This ended up at 2,600. So I had to cut the fat somewhere. Back at home, Carmen writes to Bridget that she hopes the pants bring her better luck than they did herself, then mails them off. Her mom tries to comfort her and manages to do so without saying, "I told you so." Mostly because Carmen specifically says, "Please don't say I told you so." - Mm. - Her tibi comes over and Carmen recounts the story. Carmen gets mean and tibi doesn't deserve that, so she leaves. - Yeah, fuck this. - Healthy sense of boundaries there. Bridget dons the pants and at night entices Eric from his cabin to the beach where they make out and then have sex. - Mm-hmm. - I assume Bridget took the pants off herself in accordance with the rules. (laughing) - According to the book version, as I said the summer I read in Wikipedia, she sees him in his underpants at some point and that gets things going. - I mean, that's definitely a step towards that. (laughing) - So getting back to the not washing the pants thing, I mean they're gonna have a stand and then she's, I'm assuming she put them back on after she has sex. I don't know about this not washing well anymore and you're gonna get a little funky there. - Yes, yep, very much so. Costas takes Lena out dancing on his last night in town before he heads back to Athens for university. Her family shows up, makes a scene and drags her away. At home, Yaya chastises her for not protecting her family on her and for going back on her word to not see costas. - I thought it interesting how the whole Greek family, they seem very stuck in the 1950s. I mean, I've never been to Greece so I don't know what small villages are like but it's the 50s combined with Romeo and Juliet, combined with Roman holiday. It was interesting the way they did the story. I just seemed like a timeless allegory. - Well you actually have been to Greece, right George? Did it seem familiar to you? - Crete, yeah, the architecture looked similar and the views are fucking stunning. Like it is a beautiful country, especially by the water. And Crete, Hania is gorgeous. Like I'd recommend anybody go there for a vacation if you can pull it off, which I can't. I could only get there 'cause the Navy took me there. - And before Bridget sends the pants off, she writes. - It happened just how I always imagined it would. So why do I feel this way, Lena? How can something that's supposed to make you feel so complete end up leaving you so empty? - Had some slut-shaming writing. (laughing) Like it's, I mean, she boils it down to, I really wanna talk to my mom and I can't and that scares the shit out of me. I get why that would feel bad, but you shouldn't feel bad just for having sex. Like you should feel bad about pushing this guy who shouldn't have sex with you and risking his career to do it. That you should feel bad about, yes, but not about the having of the sex, in the way that you wanted to have it apparently by your own telling of the story. - Right, the model also lost me there too. I thought did something go wrong during or after the sex because I mean, she seemed to be willing to have been consensual as much as an underage woman can consent and then she's all decrepit afterwards. It's like, what do we miss a scene? Did they cut something for the readings board? It was kinda odd there. - Yeah, like the mom thing makes sense. Like that, man, I really wish I could have asked my mom's advice on this and gotten some words of wisdom from my mom and I can't and that sucks. But it's bad writing and bad character development for this character to be conflating that with feeling bad about having sex. And it leaves it ambiguous in a way that the movie ends up sort of being like, no, sex is bad, you shouldn't have it. - All right, won't be as wonderful as you think, so. - Yeah. - Don't do it. - Bailey doesn't show for another filming. Tibby's mom does to tell her that Bailey's family called and she's in the hospital and it's serious. She will just not go visit her until it's almost too late. Later, Carmen comes over to apologize and says she's just mad at her dad, not at Tibby. Then Tibby tells her about Bailey and that she doesn't know if she'll be okay. It was another moment where I thought the character would grow in a direction and then react to that feeling but they never actually deal with this with Tibby. Because Carmen asks, is she gonna be okay? And Tibby knows the answer to that question. She knows this is terminal. She knows that the answer is no. But she says, I don't know twice. She says, I don't know. And I'm like, I can buy an I don't know, followed by a no. But then she just says, I don't know again. And I wasn't happy. Like I, that character should have been allowed to grow to accept that. - Yeah. - But, and we'll get to in a second. She never, we never see that, we'll get there. Lina wearing the pants confronts her grandfather about Costas. And he shushes Yaya when she tries to interrupt. I'm like, go pop out. He hears Lina out. And then with the word go, gives his blessing for her to go see him off to Athens. So she does. - So he's, all you have to do is give a speech and your family completely turns themselves around to someone they just said they hated. - Interestingly, when I looked at the movie list for the actress playing Yaya, it was mostly Greek movies. For the actor playing pop out, not at all. - So for him to be playing a guy that doesn't speak English, except for the word go, that was weird. But not in a reason I could fault the movie for. With Tibby there for support, Carmen calls her dad and just lays it all out. He says he's sorry and she wishes that that could be enough. - Yeah, I'm curious enough and it's gonna tell, it is enough. - No, it's not enough. But her friends. - What a movie's gonna say it's enough. - Push her to reconcile in different ways. - Yeah, the way Carmen's dad was acting is really borderline sociopath. Like that movie, "The Stuff Father." I mean, you're kind of wondering about this new family. Like, when did he tell them he had Carmen? It was that they wrote him just way too sociopathically for my liking, so. - Well, we know that he told Lydia about Carmen because when Carmen comes up to the car, she's like, "He's told me so much about you." So we know that she's aware of it and if she's aware of it, her kids are aware of it because they talk about everything except her alcoholic ex. - Hmm. - True, but I kind of wondering maybe, first of all, how long has that relationship been going on for him not to not mention it to his daughter at all? Or her mom, 'cause I'm sure her mom would have told her, "Hey, your dad has a fiancee and the fiancee has children." - They had six years apart and they are cohabitating with family about to be married. So, I'm thinking, he's been did seeing her for at least three years. - Hmm, okay. - And that's if they're smart. - I'm gonna keep that down and watch this so that did you feel that? (laughing) So to be careful. - Oh no, there's something definitely wrong with him. There's no question about it. He's definitely screwed up. - Tibby comes home to find the pants package with a faith-free affirming letter from Lena. Tibby finally goes to see Bailey in the hospital. She's playing a handheld version of Dragon's Lair that Brian McBrien had stopped by off-camera to give her. Like we couldn't see that happen. Maybe in the sequel. Tibby brought the pants and Bailey says they already worked magic for her by bringing them together. - Okay, sure. - Yeah, Tibby stays for a while before heading home. Later that night, Tibby's mom gets the call that Bailey has died. Tibby hears her get that call. But I guess the film spares us from watching Tibby get that news and react to it like a human. Later, she finds the footage that Bailey had filmed of herself. Lena, packing up her things, finds the letter Bridget had sent with the pants under her bed. That sound clip that I played earlier about I had sex and I hate myself. She realizes she missed it and that Bridget is not okay. So she calls Carmen who gets Tibby and then they head over to Bridget's place. Then Lena gets on a donkey and starts making her way back. Tibby and Carmen can solve Bridget by bringing her the pants and ordering pizza. Bridget recounts a story about her mom making some kind of monster pizza before her dog grabs the pants and runs off down the street and around the corner. - Those pants are awfully popular. - Who of all people catches the fluff, but Eric, who had flown from where the fuck he lives to Maryland to say, "Hey, like what we did was fucked up, "but couldn't find me when you're legal." - What's a fluff? - Fluff, just the word for a dog. - Okay. - She's cool with that and then they hug. - Yeah, that was very odd. - Yeah, we'll get back together, but you're legal, but... - So we acknowledged that the crime was committed. - Mm-hmm. - All three are at the airport when Lena arrives. In a way that tells me this is supposed to happen before 2001. They spend the walk to the car convincing Carmen that her dad does want her at his wedding and won't kick her out for her past behavior. Then they get in the car and drive to South Carolina to be there for Carmen, however this shakes out. On the way, they look at Lena's pictures from Greece and go gaga over Costas. Timmy says her film project now has a different direction as in a direction, and it will be called Bailey. - Yeah, I think it's gonna be crap just like all the other stuff she's been filming. - Mm. - I had a question about this road trip they're taking, so they're all 16. Wouldn't they just have learners permits? Or I don't know how Maryland works, but they kind of found that whole, I mean 16 year olds with no parents driving multiple states was interesting. - Well those are not stopped and, you know, it's gonna know they're just using permits or whatever. - I was 20 and had a New York State learners permit and drove me and my pregnant ex from upstate New York to Florida. - Having a learner's permit doesn't actually stop you from operating a vehicle when you're not supposed to be. (laughing) - Well, of course not, but I mean, I mean, wasn't one of, there was the Brigid who was driving, so did this Brigid own a car? I mean, obviously Brigid's dad is pretty negligent and doesn't pay attention, I think you'd notice if she's driving several states away and might not allow that. - Well, there's an excellent question. These girls are still young. You think at least one of the parents have wanna know where they are, which interesting Brigid's dad was played by Blake Lively's dad. - Yes, yes, I saw that. - Okay. - So they get to the wedding. Al stops the wedding to get Carmen up there as a bridesmaid and he doesn't care that she's wearing jeans. (laughing) - So Al is forgiven. - Al is forgiven. Now we get a final voiceover about how magic the pants are. The end. - What the actual fuck did those pants do for anybody? I don't understand. I mean, so the pants themselves did result, unbelievably, in introducing Costis to Lena and did, I mean, the pants didn't really do it. It's more like the male system introduced Bailey to Tibby. I think those are the only actual outcomes affected by the actual pants themselves. - I think that the pants gave each girl courage in different ways. So I think that's the moral of the story, that the pants give confidence and courage, even if sometimes it's not always used in the right way. - Yeah, the pants were effectively a totem. - Right. - So since we're here, Jack, did this still work? - I mean, this is the first time I've seen this movie. So I quite enjoyed it. I thought it was, and I hadn't watched a pejorated movie and God knows how long it took. - So, well, I mean, obviously, the audience has teamed to preteen girls, so I could see it still working for the age group, so we're just directed. - George, I'm inclined to agree with that take, although I hope I'm wrong. I would like a world where the audience that this movie was intended for would watch this movie and then have at least the same problems I had with it. But I also fear that that won't necessarily be the case. So I'm gonna say it does still work, even though I'd prefer it didn't. - Okay, so I'll be the outliner here. I do not think this film works whatsoever. I don't believe the characters. You talk about the bad character development of one of them, George. They all had bad character development. I'm sure in the book, this all works much better. But as a movie, I would have been happy if we just stayed with one character. Just jumping around, didn't I think anybody particularly developed? I didn't understand or really care much about what anybody going through. - What you're saying is, I wish this movie was different. - Yeah, 'cause you can't say, I wish it stuck, 'cause that's not this movie. This movie didn't have an option to do that because of what it is. So go after what this movie is, not what it isn't. - Well, for what it is, I wish it was something else. - There you go, that's a reason to say it doesn't work. - It's a, in the whole thing with the father is without question, I think we all agree, the most ludicrous thing you ever seen in your life. - I wanted to hit him so hard. There was no way this man never mentioned this to his door. And just to answer, suddenly see him at that moment, that makes no, oh, see his new family at that moment, not even bringing it up, as they're driving there, it's insane. And then at the end, oh, he didn't invite her, by the way. He didn't say, oh, please call her on the phone, go please, anybody, please come to the wedding. They were just gonna get married whether she was there or not. Then he sees a city there and goes, okay, you can join us. And they're like, oh, it's just, and they're supposed to be a happy ending. How was this happening? There's something wrong with this character and it's not explored at all in this movie. - Well, I thought that all the parents were pretty negligent outside of Carmen's mom. I mean, Tibi's mom, she kinda left her, I assume Tibi's mom was a single mom. I didn't see a dad in the picture. She just kinda left her babysitting the younger kids. - Which I actually believed that dynamic, 'cause a lot of parents do that, sure. - Right, Bridget's dad was very distant and dismissive. Leena, did we see much of Leena's parents? I mean, they sent her off to the grandparents. - I don't think we saw her grandparents. - Right, so I think it had a bit of a Disney movie vibe where parents are absent or bad, and, you know, kids have to rely on each other. So, of course, Carmen's dad was bad too and egregious degree. - Well, Bailey's parents are pretty negligent too, 'cause after all, their daughter's dying, and apparently, it doesn't make any difference. - Well, I mean, they take her to the hospital. Like, I don't know, although-- - They don't take her to hospital. - The ambulance does, we don't see-- - No, but at the end, she goes to the hospital more than once, Joe. - Yeah. - Two out of three times her parents take her to the hospital. - We assume. - But, how was Tibi able to be there with Bailey for as long as she was, and we don't see any of Bailey's parents? - Yeah, that's another thing I noticed. She goes, Bailey's just alone in the room with all of her stuffed animals, and someone gave her some flowers. But, yeah, I was also wondering, like, usually a parent would stay overnight in the hospital with a child, especially one of that age. So, that was also one of them. - Like, when my youngest had RSV at six months old, Laura and I were round the clock with her in the hospital. Like, we took shifts. - Yeah. - And I was in the Navy, and the Navy was like, take shifts. - Yeah, it's just, like, I just did that work for me. And the whole thing was completely ludicrous. So, for me, it did not work. All right, Jack, is there anything you want to plug? Before we wrap this baby up? - Yeah, thank you for coming on, by the way. Thank you for being a much-needed, not-us voice. (laughing) - Thank you for having me. I actually ended up enjoying this movie. I probably have watched it, if not for the podcast. I actually even went to the public library today, and I got the book, the first book. So, I'm gonna do a little contrast and compare, and see what was missing from the movie. - Oh, good stuff, okay. Nifty. - Okay, George, what's up next? - Next week, we'll be talking about Little Shop of Horrors from 1986. - Little Shop, Little Shop of Horrors. - And I'm gonna go out on a limb, and say this in this recording that's gonna get published to the world that, well, I haven't done a musical cold open in a while. So, given that it's a musical. - You want to do the cold open? - It's gonna have a musical cold open. - Okay. - And since my concert is tomorrow, and there's a couple of weeks before the next cycle starts, I'm gonna have time. So, I have to write something friendly cold open. - You have to, you volunteer. - I have to. (laughing) - Nobody's making a deal with goddamn thing. - Okay, cool. So, no cold open for me to write that week. That sounds good to me. - Yep. - So, I guess I did for this episode. Again, Jackie, thanks for joining us. And everybody, see you next time. I'm Joe Dixon, thanks for listening. - And I'm George Romaka. Thanks for listening, indeed, because if a podcast drops and there's nobody around to hear it, it's just a collection of ones and zeros that doesn't matter. - You try the money. - Oh, hell, Audrey, honestly. - Are you serious? You think that a pair of jeans, if it's all three of you, is going to fit all of this. - What the hell? - You've been listening to Does This Still Work? Produced by Joe Dixon and George Romaka. The hosts can be reached via social media, email, or the contact page at dtswpod.com. Be good to yourself and others, because that still works. (upbeat music) - Tip B is played by Amber Tamblin. - Tip B, who? - Oh, sorry. Tip B is played by not like you have a cold. - That may not be possible. - You'll both be at my show tomorrow. What song from this movie do you think will show up in the concert? If you had a warning label, what would it say? If you went back in time, what would you give to a young Victorian child who just got back from the minds? If toothpaste came in any flavor, other than the ones that we already have, what flavor would you choose?
